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Organ Harvesting, Falun Gong, Tibet, etc. (The WEST vs. CHINA)


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I have learned to live with it, and perhaps even acquiesce that it must be that way. Of course, I don’t know what examples you may have in mind, but... Do you think I can persuade anybody that th

Not quite having the resources just yet to plow through all of the above, just skimming it quickly instead, understand that what I say are but preliminary impressions. I know next to nothing about FG.

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23 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

he way that I have phrased it is: “Why kick the old lady when she is down? We kicked her while she was up.

Excellent phrase. Babylon the Great is in the death throes.....  There are parts of it that is still going strong but I suspect in countries where one can be killed for not attending mosque they are religious in name only.  I met many Iranians here that hate their national religion.

 I am a natural autodidact because I had to study my singing parts by myself.  Interpretation is also important....   so I used to analyze the music.  When I was a reporter I  learnt to listen to people closely - read the signs and feel the feelings.  It was then that I also learnt to look at the bigger picture - not just the small details.

Scholars sometimes are so engrossed in small details that they miss the big picture.  They also go around in circles - quoting the bits that fit and ignore the parts that do not.  I have seen this in Islam, evolution, and many other fields of study. This is how evolution became so strong.  They just answer the bits that they can and ignore the bits they cannot answer and in the end a massive body of work has been produced in the so-called scientific METHOD  that superficially looks as if the proof is there but it is actually based on circular reasoning.... just strengthening the bits that fit.... and quoting the bits that fit.

Regarding the hours - I think it is good if we should report.... because it helps us to determine who is weak and who is busy preaching.  There is no other gauge. 

 

 

 

 

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On 9/10/2020 at 12:56 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

after knowing the truth are like Vic Vomodog, whose name I changed from Vomidog to please @anna, who didn’t like the image.

Actually, I didn't not like it, I thought it was very appropriate as I didn't realize it was you at first, and thought it was some ex-Witness taking the Mickey, so I called "him" vomit dog 😄

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11 minutes ago, Anna said:

Actually, I didn't not like it, I thought it was very appropriate as I didn't realize it was you at first, and thought it was some ex-Witness taking the Mickey, so I called "him" vomit dog 😄

You mean I ditched a perfectly good bad name for no reason?!

Actually, I partly mellowed by being here. I began to think it a bit like waving a red flag at any bull that was an ex. They’re not all ex for the same reason, and I felt it wouldn’t hurt to soften the word. Vomodog still suggests the verse, while being less in-your-face. After all, how many Vomodogs (or Vomidogs) can you find in the phone listings?

Still, in all honesty, your objection to it was what started the ball rolling. And now you tell me you never had any objection? See if I listen to you the next time you want to rename another character!

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On 9/10/2020 at 12:56 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

Another area of seeming bias is how we speak of ex-members—as though they are all train-wrecks, and will remain so until they come to their senses and return........“A dog that returns to its own vomit” is how Peter puts it, so from there comes the notion that the world will “chew one up and spit one out.” If the brothers find someone who says it in exactly those words based upon his own experience, they eat it right up and cannot relay it quickly enough. 

It used to drive me nuts. It still does, a little, but it does so less. The brothers don’t know because they obey the Bible’s own counsel to not go where they might find out.

It drives me a little nuts too. If those ex- members are to be believed, then they are supper happy, living the high life, and if not the high life, they are "finally" free!! I believe most of them. After all, not everyone wants to live by Bible standards or be accountable to God, or actually take regard of God in their life. We would be naive to think that everyone wants the "Truth". Although sad, we need to believe it and respect it. (Of course that doesn't mean we give up on them, anyone can change their mind).

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6 hours ago, Anna said:

they are "finally" free!!

They are "free" to follow all their own desires.  I do not mind those who leave and do their own thing - it is their choice... and I wish then well  and even hope for their repentance when they come to their senses.

However, when I am constantly  "confronted" by those who are NOT happy in their so-called new freedom and do not get on with their own goals.... and then take all their time to persecute JWs, the GB etc.  In their mind they think they should rescue us so we can do what we like as they do.  Some mask their hate for Jehovah's people in a pseudo-morality of goodness of trying to save us from ourselves.  They do not recognize OUR CHOICE! in the matter.  They just want to hit back and do not want any of us to get life from Jehovah but want to sow doubt and drag others down with them.

These kind, are far from repentance and may only reach that point when they become hungry like the  prodigal son.  Some remain harsh and nasty.....  I have noticed this kind of harsh and extreme, unrelenting critical attitude in many of the true apostates.

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14 hours ago, JW Insider said:

WP journalist interviewing Elizabeth Economy, China expert who has worked on the Council on Foreign Relations.

I have always said - because woman have to obey much more than men and we usually have to do things for others - we learn to listen better than men do.  

As a journalist I learnt to listen very well - to be able to go back and write about the interview. I not only catch all the important points - but the attitudes.  Elizabeth did not talk about the camps but she did speak about how the Chinese  'control' and how they manage their affairs with those states they have taken over and even the relationship with these neighbors. That to me was very significant. 

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12 hours ago, Arauna said:

we learn to listen better than men do. 

Perhaps you do. Perhaps that's why I sometimes decide to take notes when listening to videos. But at least you are admitting now that what I said was correct in that she said nothing about any of those things, and that the following was accurate:

On 9/12/2020 at 10:05 AM, JW Insider said:

I listened (and took notes) on the entire interview. It presents nothing about organ harvesting, nothing about Tibet (except to indicate that all boundary issues have been resolved between China and Tibet), nothing about control of water, nothing about Falun Gong, nothing about Uyghurs, nothing about problems in Mongolia, and almost nothing about problems in Africa, HK and Taiwan. China is presented merely as an ambitious economic power well on its way to becoming the number one economic power, which the West sees as a threat that must be controlled somehow.

 

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20 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

hat I said was correct in that she said nothing ab

No, she said nothing about this but that was not the purpose for me citing it.  It seems you learnt nothing else....  so I think with you it is a matter of just being right ..... not learning anything else.... So we are definitely on crossed wavelengths.  As I said before, people who follow THE METHOD LIKE SLAVES, which I think you always do.... think in very narrow bands..... they only quote the bits they want  or  have to have the facts spelt out in absolute black or white. So you will be a good scholar AFTER there is ample proof that China was up to very bad stuff.  BEFORE ... or while it is happening  ... I do not think that is  your forte.   I mean there are so many red dragon flags everywhere!!! 

The fact that China is in trouble with so many countries does  not ring a bell with you.  Australian journalists just fled from China and were almost imprisoned.  In Africa they caught Chinese who were mining gold and messing up the environment and they claimed to have the rights.  A whole cash of ivory was found, bones of other rare animals, live tortoises, pangolins etc.  I told you that China or Chinese do not care for the environment.  I hear regularly of these occurrences.

The CCP built that massive dam against expert advise.... now their own people are suffering with floods.  In Nepal and Tibet - it seems you learnt nothing from them building  thousands of dams.......  ruining the environment and holding their neighbors hostage with water. That was mentioned in the video I posted.

 Only when CCP /China attacks others countries you may wake up and say - they were part of the beast and an ally of King of the North.  

 

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10 hours ago, Arauna said:

No, she said nothing about this but that was not the purpose for me citing it.  It seems you learnt nothing else.... 

I was really looking for more clarity from you. These conversations tend to go in a lot of different directions. I questioned the purpose of your posting the Elizabeth Economy video, because it had so little to do with any of your claims. In fact, it's a video that I might even agree with more than you do.

When you told me I had missed quite a lot, and that I wasn't listening well, I realized that you weren't paying attention to to the right one of your video links, even though I identified it by quoting your own intro to the "Economy" video (page 6), and I also wrote several paragraphs in the same post specific to that video. You somehow thought I was referring to another video about water, the one where Falun Gong (via the Epoch Times) interviewed Maura Moynihan (from back on page 4).

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

 so I think with you it is a matter of just being right ..... not learning anything else.

Perhaps I gave that impression. Sorry. But you gave the impression that you were so anxious to be right, that you must have barely got past the first couple sentences, before trying to make it look like I was wrong. Otherwise you would have realized that all those additional paragraphs could only have been about the video I had identified.

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

So we are definitely on crossed wavelengths.  As I said before, people who follow THE METHOD LIKE SLAVES, which I think you always do.... think in very narrow bands. they only quote the bits they want  or  have to have the facts spelt out in absolute black or white.

Interesting judgments. I can't agree though. I much prefer to look at the entire picture, give everything a chance to be right, and a chance to be wrong, or a bit of both, and to see what makes the most reasonable sense when a wide array of evidence is weighed, even from perspectives and sources that are not usually considered. One should never expect a complete answer to a question to be found in "black and white" and one should never cherry-pick only the bits that fit a preconceived belief. These are tenets of discussion and belief that I have always tried to uphold.

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

So you will be a good scholar AFTER there is ample proof that China was up to very bad stuff.  BEFORE ... or while it is happening  ... I do not think that is  your forte.   I mean there are so many red dragon flags everywhere!!! 

Unfortunately, conspiracists and propagandists are capable of making "proof" out of nothing. The conspiracist creates a vicious logic circle where both evidence and contradictory evidence are made to prove the same claim. Propagandists know how to mix the right amounts of correct information with the false to appeal to nationalism, racism, prejudice, etc. Even the very word propagandist is used for propagandist purposes. One country has a Press Secretary; but that country will say that the same officeholder in another country is their Chief Propagandist.  

But, putting conspiracy and propaganda aside, you can actually tell a lot about the value of evidence by looking at whether and how it contradicts other evidence. You can find trends in the sources of contradictory evidence. When one side or another is caught putting out false "evidence" more trends can be discovered that can help one predict the value of certain kinds of evidence. And there are times when those predictions can be tested and made even better.

I agree that nations are "beasts" and can't be trusted in all things. But this also means we shouldn't always trust the false claims one beast will claim about another.  We shouldn't blindly trust every untrustworthy beast that wants our trust. There are bits of truth in some of these "bad stuff in China" claims, whether historical, current, or future. But we should also never be blind to the "red dragon flags" that show up in some of the false claims about "bad stuff in China."

I could start conversations with all the people I have ever hired from China, all the people I have ever worked for and worked with from China, and find a dozen more people still living in China to converse with (as my son has) and get a good feeling for what they like and don't like about their government. For many years, we also had former missionaries in our congregation from Taiwan, who knew other Witnesses on the mainland and I include their perspectives, too. If they say something positive or something that contradicts the narratives promoted by the West, you will probably claim that it shows how scared everyone is to speak out against their government. Or that the government is too good at keeping all their evil hidden.

I can tell that you are steeped in propaganda, but I was too. I once believed almost everything you currently believe about China. I don't think it's easy at all to obtain and weigh the evidence correctly. I expect that most people in the West will stick with something close to the Western narratives. They are the easiest to find. I don't expect the Western rhetoric and propaganda to let up, and I therefore expect that many people will continue to feel they are doing the right thing by joining in and calling out a warning. I didn't start looking at it more closely until I realized that more of the evidence showed that the rhetoric of the Western narrative has been mostly "war propaganda" and I did not want to join in, even if it was for a "cold war."

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1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

hese conversations tend to go in a lot of different directions

Yes - I expected that.  I think you like to look at ONE thing at a time a be absolute sure of its black and whiteness - then go to the next part.  Unfortunately communism is a mindset.....an ideology expressed in the various manifestations I have spoken about. Consequently one must see its many expressions in the many facets of how it is expressed in human behavior such as love for central power, absolute control of people, extreme deceitfulness, extensive use of subversion, lack of trustworthiness, hate of transparency, hate of any form of criticism - even in private, thought crime, worship of leaders, a hate for religion, human or animal life or preservation of nature (such as killing all birds etc).  I doubt one can have numbers for that.  All the qualities come straight out of Satan's bible.

These mentioned qualities lead to unjust imprisonment, human torture, forced confessions, sectors of society who become expendable, hiding/ cover up of evidence, killing of those who witnessed it, public deceit, NO transparency,  and lack of truth of information, government propaganda  etc etc. Those are not concrete substances one can google or find written down.... unless actual deaths have been documented by research and this usually happens long  AFTER the actual events - not while they are ongoing. And then concrete numbers are hard to uncover. The suffering that the people went through, while people were under this attack by their own government, will never be documented.  very few writers in USSR survived to write about their experiences in the gulags. Only Jehovah knows about that. 

You yourself do not believe the number killed under Stalin because most of the people who knew what was going (those around Stalin in high positions)  were themselves liquidated to hide evidence...... so 'absolute' black and white numbers are hard to come by.  This does not mean they did not happen just because it is not in black and white. The numbers are way beyond 20 million even if there is only proof of 20 million.  The number of 20 million is still staggering and the mindset that led to this is totally satanic.  And those who helped to cover up were in extreme fear of their lives....before they themselves were liquidated.  One saw a similar mindset under Nazi National Socialism.... with emphasis on 'socialism'. 

Collectivism/socialism in themselves sound wonderful BUT because it is under human rule, Human socialism is totally different than theocratic socialism.  Most witnesses do not see the difference.  Human rule always ends in disaster and human socialism is one of the worst forms of government because it "sounds" so good and the marketing of it sounds so wonderful. (agenda 21 is another one that sounds wonderful and the marketing department is in full swing - deceitful and dis-topic). Socialism does not respect the individual.  BUT - under theocratic rule the individual's choices are EVERYTHING!  The people must have a social mindset of willingly giving up their rights by CHOICE for the greater good of someone else.  A sacrifice for someone else.  Giving up what you want or even need for another - willingly. This is totally different to be forced into an equality of outcome and a suppression of you will, choice, religion etc. I think you have not really meditated on this but just like numbers. 

If a serial killer only remembers 20 murders but there is evidence that he was at ten other scenes one can assume that may have been responsible, especially if the MO was the same.  But he may only receive a death sentence for 20. Same with Stalin, Mao-se Tung, North Korean gulags etc.. look at the MO...... 

That is why I wanted you to listen carefully to the interview so you can catch some nuances of what is going on. Her interview will be removed by google if she said more and she is aware of that.   Google is working with the CCP. Extreme capitalism  also has some of these features and that is why I have been saying all along (for about 12 years) that extreme (global) capitalism and communism will eventually merge to form a highly oppressive world government in future. Some of these features are already visible in the radical left in USA and other areas of Europe, Canada and  Australia. Since China went all Capitalistic for a while before kicking out journalists who are not prepared to be followed around, interrogated, their footage removed, etc, CCP are moving toward the true communism........  Mao se Tung is back on the list of Chinese hero's. 

If I suggested to  you the riots in america are pure subversion, tao-istic style, you will most probably tell me I am nuts .  I have told you many times on these pages that all the visible TRENDS smell like a commie rat.... no numbers available but the true numbers are in the funding of subversive organizations.  Follow the money trail and you will find the rat.  But the evidence is in what they say and the behavior.

Similar to the French revolution, and Russian revolution they were using a normal human desire of equality (which is the right of each of us) to stoke the revolution and afterward these very same people were expendable. Satan's marketing department pictures these aspirations as being noble aspirations..... but it leads to death and destruction of human lives. 

No wonder Jehovah teaches us to stay away from politics because it is ALL  illusion.  Propaganda is now going on everywhere to cover up nefarious goals - even in the west because a socialist color revolution /take-over is in the making.  China unfortunately deserves some bad publicity because they have been getting away with some of their most heinous crimes. The focus was off of them for several years - especially the falun gong issue.

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

much prefer to look at the entire picture

No, That is why you are confused by the different aspects of the same thing.  You do NOT look at the entire picture even if you think you do. You just like numbers or a book to confirm the facts.  Not much else....  If exact numbers cannot be produced then you are not interested in all the 'signs' that there are extreme dis-topic problems. 

I have listened to umpteen interviews of people who fled China and North korea - as I said to you - I have no doubt in my mind of what is going on. Knowing the nature of Islam and Communism  - I can see the full nature of the world that will be exhibited very soon.  As the bible says - The beast will win because it will destroy all false religion - so Islam's days will be numbered....but it will still sow havoc.  Communism will grow ( a new version of it) because of the nature of its control....

We will have to get ready for extreme suffering until Jehovah steps in. The 8th beast will be the most ugly one and the most oppressive beast ever in the history of mankind.  The fact that they want to stuff all humans in high rise building with rationed food, water etc.... should give you an indication of the suffering that is coming.  Crimes against humanity is already going on under our noses and we have become accustomed to the propaganda and the hiding of the true facts.  The marketing department for Satan's system is in full swing.  With Satan it is adapt, obey or die - the father of death. Those who try to bring the truth are now cut out of social media - which is only the beginning of our thought crimes.

Religion will soon be a thought crime.

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

false claims one beast will claim about another

Fully aware of that BUT china has gotten away with too many crimes. It is only now that it suits USA to bring attention to it....... but it is too late. 

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

ind a dozen more people still living in China to converse with

Yes - you will get a very honest answer ......  when it is a known fact that their phones are currently all monitored by the government and their social credit score will go down immediately if they just talk about freedom in a western way.. or answer your questions honestly.  The thought crime will bring down their social score and they could lose their way of life.  I do not think you understand how serious it has become.  

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

n tell that you are steeped in propaganda,

I have been saying this for 12 years... it is a long time.... long before it became convenient for USA to suddenly smear CCP.

When I discovered that western governments do not see Islam as a threat and it became Islamophobic (or far-right) to mention Islam I knew there was propaganda at play from western governments. They are pushing an agenda. 

It just so happens that I discovered it is UN Agenda 21 and agenda 2030 which wants borders removed and all people (regardless of religion) mixed into one.  The UN immigration Compact 2018 is clear that one may not speak against Islam. 

 It is Satan's way of creating one world government under Satan.  An evil imitation of Christs rule.  I realized this when I started to study Islam before 9/11......  and then discovered that Karl Marx had the same aspirations. By the way: Zionism has similar aspirations but one is NOT allowed to talk about that either.  It is remarkable how Satan is using human laws to cover up these facts regarding these ideologies.

I do not have affiliations to any human government but I am not blind as to the 'mental attitudes' going on.  It so happens that I honestly believe that any human who wants to control another  has a satanic attitude ..... that is why  I tend to notice these trends very quickly.  Being a woman helps a lot.  I see patriarchal attitudes everywhere (even in the truth sometimes with some brothers - a woman should not know too much you know... ) and I therefore cannot blame the far-left for the new aggressive sexual revolution which is part of cultural communism but unfortunately - this is also totally inspired by Satan. 

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

can tell that you are steeped in propaganda

And you are not.  Interesting...... I am a refugee and alien resident - literally.  So I see things sometimes which other do not see.  Hopefully soon, my husband and I will find a place where we can face Armageddon together.

The eighth king is not yet here openly but it is already ruling underneath everything......  The UN coalition with 179 countries that signed agenda 21 and all the earthly princes who are giving their foundational charity contributions to fund its operation....

Time will tell if my eyes have been seeing  spooky things........ I sincerely hope so.... because suddenly the worst time in human history is upon us....... This Corona is not going away and I 'suspect' they may keep us in semi-lock-down for a long time - until the financial system has been reset.  Many will die of hunger - and the false "show' of governments who pretend to care - this will dissipate.  Riots  and upheaval will ensue but will be squelched until they announce a solution from UN. This will be implemented and bring a resemblance of peaceful future..... then it will suddenly turn against religions.... 

 

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