Is Religion a Choice?

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

I thoght this was / is an intersting article. 

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/secularworldbyaai/2020/11/is-religion-a-choice/

Is Religion a Choice? 

Not initially, no. You are not offered a choice.

Many of us are fed our parent’s choice of faith in the same way that we are given their preferred make of baby milk… Maybe you would choose if you were shown the options but you don’t have that privilege: nobody gives you a menu of religions to select from. 

Not offering a choice is part of the Get-em-Young strategy. 

It begins, when you are newly born and can’t voice an objection, with a tribal branding ceremony, which may include being plunged in water or enduring genital mutilation, and it moves on to daily praying, special dietary customs, hair cuts and dress codes. It extends to schooling and gathering to worship once a week in a special hall, and includes ceremonies to mark life events such as weddings and funerals. This is not to mention a calendar of special activities at different times of year. Punishment for disobedience is often involved.

Later though, if you are lucky enough to have freedom, you can start to question what you were told and can form your own opinion; you can unchoose. 

Many notable people have done this. Tony Blair swapped his Protestantism for Catholicism as soon as he left office (being overtly religious is not a vote winner in the UK) and boxer Cassius Clay famously left the Baptist church for Islam, which necessitated changing his name: to Mohammed Ali.

This unchoosing is what Muslims try to prevent with the threat of death for apostasy. People born in an Islamic theocracy are often trapped by the fundamentalist leaders’ fear of challenge. 

Other denominations, such as the Jehovah Witnesses, use psychological sanctions: a would-be leaver has to face up to the prospect of being ostracised by his or her family and community members; the price is a complete loss of society and a need for geographical relocation to start life again without parental support. 

What does that tell us about religion?

 “To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize” 

That’s a good saying, whether it was coined by Voltaire, the French Enlightenment philosopher or not (there is some academic disagreement).

Unchoosing all religions, ticking the none box in answer to the question, “What is your religion?” on polls and censuses, is becoming increasingly popular where it is permitted.

I hope you are in a situation where you can unchoose your religion without coming to harm.

--------------------------------------------------

Not my words but, Definitely food for thought......................

[TrueTomHarley]

If you do not teach your children values, it does not mean that they grow up free and unencumbered and, when of age, select their own values from the rich cornucopia of life. 

No. All it means is that someone else will teach them

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

13 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

If you do not teach your children values, it does not mean that they grow up free and unencumbered and, when of age, select their own values from the rich cornucopia of life. 

No. All it means is that someone else will teach them

It is good to teach children 'values' and even teaching children about God and Christ, but that is different to brainwashing them with lies and false expectations. 

To push young children into baptism just because some other child has also been pushed into baptism, as if it's a competition. Then to disfellowship them when they go aganst the GB doctrines. 

This is very true 

“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize”

 

[Arauna]

"Later though, if you are lucky enough to have freedom....... "

Lol...... the generation that is now at university is the generation that did not have religion in schools or at home....... and what do you see?  Highly emotional kids with no moral direction - prone to violence and a personal "right" to set things straight by means of violence. Like waves of the sea with no moral discretion or stability.

A value system which teaches that one can choose your gender at age three,  have sex when and with whom you like - do whatever you like - and that we are no higher than any other animal on earth. We are led by instinct like animals. If someone does not want to have  sex with you they are discrminating against you. Hence it is ok to kill those who do not like the new value system of what they view as " total freedom.".... so the social engineering can be complete. Get rid of those who do not like this value system.

A child with no value system (it was the Christian system which taught us to treat others the same as you want to be treated) has little respect for life. The atheist person usually falls victim to other human philosophies (they replace religion with human philosophy with such  -isms  as 'human-ism ' dawin-ism etc-  because they have to find for themself some "value-system". 

These newfangled value systems are leading to a moral deathtrap.  Why?  Adam and eve chose their own right and wrong....... it led to mankind's killing spree for 6000 years and much more to come with young kids who have no idea of morals.

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

In most examples, belonging to a religion is a given. With families whose parents do not have a religious need to belong to a church, children may or may not choose their religious identity at a later age. This ratio is probably higher today than before.

Which religion has better "moral standards"? Are the moral standards of those who do not believe in religion or in God of poor quality? Does one have to be religious and belong to a religious structure in order for such a man to be “moral”?

The actions of some "big/great" believers show that religiosity is not a guarantee for morality. For example, WT lawyers who speak inaccurate and untrue things in court and in public certainly prove that being a "Christian" or a "Jehovah's Witness" does not mean being moral and honest. Who taught them when they were children/young adult? JW parents or someone in congregation who led them to be baptized through Bible study? Have WT lawyers abandoned their "religious beliefs" or "religious morality"? 

From given JW preaching, it could be concluded that WTJWorg considers its religious teachings as the foundation for its own religious morality. In fact, JWs claim that they are highly moral because they have “the truth”, that means "true religion" and "true teachings", "true religiosity". And because of that they are the most moral people on Earth. If they are such people, how it is possible that they collectively allow their fellow brothers aka WT lawyers to speak lies, to give false "testimony/witness"?? 

 

[Witness]

 

On 11/17/2020 at 4:59 AM, Arauna said:

A child with no value system (it was the Christian system which taught us to treat others the same as you want to be treated) has little respect for life.

God spoke of his nation under covenant as "children".   When they sinned, it was obvious that they lost their "value system" in God's laws.  We choose our father, we choose our course to follow - either we desire to become children of the Almighty Father, or children of the devil.  John 8:44  

I'm sure the devoted "children" of Jonestown believed their leaders valued their life, and they valued their own.   Were these people, "Christians"?  Did they adopt Christian values?

What were the beliefs of Peoples Temple members?

https://jonestown.sdsu.edu/?page_id=35356

Although a variety of beliefs existed in Peoples Temple, two main systems of thought can be identified. The first system, which tended to be concentrated in Jim Jones and a small leadership corps, comprised a belief in the salvific power of socialism. Somewhat atheistic, or at best agnostic, in nature, this belief resembled humanism in its understanding of the power of human beings to re-create and re-shape reality for the benefit of all. In this view, religion could be used to attract people into the organization so that the real message of Christianity — radical sharing and mutual support — could actually be lived. The second belief system in the Temple, and by far the largest, was a traditional Christianity which emphasized the prophetic call to social justice and a belief that the kingdom of God could be established on earth by living in an apostolic community. This system resembled the Social Gospel movement of the late 19th and early 20th centuries in its commitment to solving social problems; at the same time, however, the group had utopianist ideals which could only be lived out through the establishment of a community separate from the evil and injustice of the rest of the world, especially America.

Read the following quote posted on another forum.  Do you see anything that sounds familiar with your beliefs; anything in this quote that strikes a familiar chord?  I do, and as they say; familiarity breeds contempt.  

Deborah Layton, escapee, months before the Jim Jones, Jonestown Massacre -

"When your own thoughts are forbidden, when your questions are not allowed and our doubts are punished, when contacts with friendships outside of the organization are censored, we are being abused for the ends never justify the means. When our heart aches knowing we have made friendships and secret attachments that will be forever forbidden if we leave, we are in danger. When we consider staying in a group because we cannot bear the loss, disappointment and sorrow our leaving will cause for ourselves and those we may have come to love, we are in a cult... If there is any lesson to be learned it is that an ideal can never be brought about by fear, abuse, and the threat of retribution. When family and friends are used as a weapon in order to force us to stay in an organization, something has gone terribly wrong." (page 299 - excerpt from book, Seductive Poison).

 

 

Quote @Srecko Sostar - From given JW preaching, it could be concluded that WTJWorg considers its religious teachings as the foundation for its own religious morality. In fact, JWs claim that they are highly moral because they have “the truth”, that means "true religion" and "true teachings", "true religiosity". And because of that they are the most moral people on Earth. If they are such people, how it is possible that they collectively allow their fellow brothers aka WT lawyers to speak lies, to give false "testimony/witness"?? 

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Although a variety of beliefs existed in Peoples Temple, two main systems of thought can be identified. The first system, which tended to be concentrated in Jim Jones and a small leadership corps,

 

2 hours ago, Witness said:

The second belief system in the Temple, and by far the largest, was a traditional Christianity which emphasized the prophetic call to social justice and a belief that the kingdom of God could be established on earth by living in an apostolic community.

So the similarity is great or even the same. Within the WTJWorg organization, all members' attention is focused on the GB and the elders under the supervision of the WT Administration. YHVH and Christ have become or will become “friends” for rank and file members, but GB + Helpers + Elders are Leaders to be listened to and obeyed.
The “Spiritual paradise” in which JW members are housed today is a reflection of God’s Kingdom ruling from heaven over the WTJWorg organization, because Leaders and Members lives according to First Congregation example and Revealed Instructions in/for the Last Days.

[Witness]

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

So the similarity is great or even the same.

Excellent explanation, and shocking at the same time. 

At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not. (4) Now is the time for any who may be putting their trust in secular education, material things, or human institutions to adjust their thinking. The elders must stand ready to help any who may now be wavering in their faith. w13 11/15 p. 20

[Witness]

14 minutes ago, Witness said:

Excellent explanation, and shocking at the same time. 

At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not. (4) Now is the time for any who may be putting their trust in secular education, material things, or human institutions to adjust their thinking. The elders must stand ready to help any who may now be wavering in their faith. w13 11/15 p. 20

Here's an update on obeying "Jehovah's organization" -

Moses conscientiously followed Jehovah’s detailed instructions for the construction and setting up of the tabernacle. We should likewise listen to any instructions we receive from Jehovah’s organization and obey promptly and wholeheartedly. This is true even if it does not seem important to follow them or we do not understand the reason for the instructions.—Lu 16:10. mwb20 November p. 2

"But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."  Heb 5:14

 

This is a weird comparison of Moses, a prophet in direct contact with God and who obeyed His instructions...made to JW members obeying the instructions of an organization.   But, I'm getting the comparison.  Incredibly, it was stated just recently in a broadcast, that the elder body "represents God".  The elder body basically comprises the internal workings of the organization - supporting the image of the organization, as spirit-directed. (Rev 13:15)  What they teach, judge, and justify is God speaking, since they "represent God" and the organization.  

Not only do they represent God, they "represent the royal priesthood" - the anointed Temple of God. (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17

My goodness, the "man of lawlessness" who sits/rules in the Temple of God, is becoming stark naked before all.

"Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.  He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God (1 Pet 2:9; 1 Cor 3:16,17) or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God ."

 

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

21 hours ago, Witness said:

This is a weird comparison of Moses, a prophet in direct contact with God and who obeyed His instructions...made to JW members obeying the instructions of an organization.  

Absolutely inappropriate! It seems GB+Helpers+Elders+Organization is Anti-Type of JHVH as Type.  And Great Multitude is Anti-type of Moses as Type. :)) Really crazy illustration. 

Moses was human, so we can play illustrations with him as we wish, it is not so sensitive. But to compare GB and Elders position and role as same as God's? ... that is in area of blasphemy. 

 

[Space Merchant]

You really need to be very careful with Atheism... The Scriptures is quite clear on being vigilant and careful around specific philosophies.

Regarding Religion, it should be known of "how" original and pure Christianity came to be, hence, the religion of Christianity whereas as this faith, of which being, a follower of the Christ with the God given name, Christian.

Unfortunately, sometime afterwards, there was some councils and different beliefs that broken Christianity into many denominations over time, those who seek truth try to piece all the information together, to find out the truth about who God is and who Jesus is. Granted the identity of who the Christ is sparked to major factions whereas as both have several denominations, with the core problem for both being of God and Christ, and who they are really, and so forth.

So from then to present day, it is as if the councils have never ended, and the battle continues, only this time, you have the Muslims involved, although they differ, they do fit into one faction, it is quite the obvious one.

[Arauna]

On 11/24/2020 at 3:15 AM, Space Merchant said:

You really need to be very careful with Atheism... The Scriptures is quite clear on being vigilant and careful around specific philosophies.

Agreed, human philosophies are deadly. All the -isms such as darwin-ism, athe-ism, human-ism etc.  This replaces the bible to give people some meaning in their lives.... but it leads to spiritual death.