Creation-Evolution-Creative Days-Age of the Earth-Humanoid Fossils-Great Flood

[TrueTomHarley]

56 minutes ago, AlanF said:

I've done so many times. Again you show you haven't the mental wherewithal to understand -- which is why you so well fit descriptions of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

I think you have not done so even once. All you have done is to assert you are smarter than anyone else.

[AlanF]

43 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I think you have not done so even once. All you have done is to assert you are smarter than anyone else.

You've proved my point.

[Arauna]

4 hours ago, César Chávez said:

keeps  people like Alanf, around.

Well said. He has not said one sentence that made me think twice..... all I got from him was insults. .... true blasphemer. 

[TrueTomHarley]

7 hours ago, AlanF said:

You've proved my point.

Of course, Dunning Kruger can work as you say but it can also work in the following way (per Wikipedia):

Two swindlers arrive at the capital city of an emperor who spends lavishly on clothing at the expense of state matters. Posing as weavers, they offer to supply him with magnificent clothes that are invisible to those who are stupid or incompetent. The emperor hires them, and they set up looms and go to work. A succession of officials, and then the emperor himself, visit them to check their progress. Each sees that the looms are empty but pretends otherwise to avoid being thought a fool. Finally, the weavers report that the emperor's suit is finished. They mime dressing him and he sets off in a procession before the whole city. The townsfolk uncomfortably go along with the pretense, not wanting to appear inept or stupid, until a child blurts out that Emperor Alan is wearing nothing at all! Emperor Alan then sneers at the stupid little tyke, too stupid to know he is stupid, and laughs at his Dunning Kruger limitations.

I think that is the application that more readily applies here, don’t you?

 

[AlanF]

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

Well said. He has not said one sentence that made me think twice..... all I got from him was insults. .... true blasphemer. 

That's a compliment from someone so stupid as to talk about "Teutonic plates".

[AlanF]

59 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Of course, Dunning Kruger can work as you say but it can also work in the following way (per Wikipedia):

Two swindlers arrive at the capital city of an emperor who spends lavishly on clothing at the expense of state matters. Posing as weavers, they offer to supply him with magnificent clothes that are invisible to those who are stupid or incompetent. The emperor hires them, and they set up looms and go to work. A succession of officials, and then the emperor himself, visit them to check their progress. Each sees that the looms are empty but pretends otherwise to avoid being thought a fool. Finally, the weavers report that the emperor's suit is finished. They mime dressing him and he sets off in a procession before the whole city. The townsfolk uncomfortably go along with the pretense, not wanting to appear inept or stupid, until a child blurts out that Emperor Alan is wearing nothing at all! Emperor Alan then sneers at the stupid little tyke, too stupid to know he is stupid, and laughs at his Dunning Kruger limitations.

I think that is the application that more readily applies here, don’t you?

 

Actually that tale is an excellent description of the JW religion.

And by sticking my name in the tale -- which is pure ad hominem -- you again prove yourself to suffer from Dunning-Kruger.

Wow! You've got a double whammy! From the cult you're in, plus your personal limitations.

[TrueTomHarley]

6 hours ago, AlanF said:

And by sticking my name in the tale -- which is pure ad hominem—you again prove yourself to suffer from Dunning-Kruger

If you’d give a little bit more attention to you adhominem, it wouldn’t happen.

Low information people are prone to overestimate their command of a subject? Is that really such a profound observation so as to wait for Dunning and Kruger to give it academic endorsement? Just read up on the “fool” in the Bible and you will pick up the same.

Nor does ad hominem have much to do with Dunning Kruger. If it did, you would be in the corner wearing a DunningK cap that could be seen from Mars.

If you could come out of yourself for five minutes, you would realize that I display the very opposite of Dunning Kruger on this forum. Per the DK definition, I should be expected to try to dominate that endlessly long 607 discussion, overestimating my ability, and thereby displaying my ignorance. Instead, I’m aware that I don’t know much about the subject, and so I sit it out. 

So while DK might be a notion worthy of a pamphlet, it has little application here. You just seize upon it because you think it makes a good insult.

[Arauna]

11 hours ago, AlanF said:

hat's a compliment from someone so stupid as to talk about "Teutonic plates".

You focus on one  spelling mistake because you do not have real proof of fossils - how invertebrates suddenly became vertebrates, how the wing suddenly developed.... how the Cambrian explosion produced fully developed animals when only a few trilobites could be found in the previous layer ...... so NO progressive development found (no fossil record) in the millions of years in between the two layers....and suddenly we find rhino and dinosaur and various animals together -  conveniently left out of all evolutionary records.   And don't bother to answer with another "theory" which cannot be proved ....or the insults -  which are the only thing you are really good at..  

I do not waste my time any longer on a person like you who can only insult and cannot provide empirical  evidence.  Peer reviews  are also not acceptable because it just means that scientists stand together to protect their turf and do not have any respect for the truth. It is a religion masquerading as a science and playing beautifully into the hands of satan's goals. Unfortunately I have lost respect for many of the sciences..... they now produce results which their money sponsors desire.  Just look at the global warming fiasco for one.... example

Apart from this - the math does not add up and I will not even go into the protein and nano-technology aspects which prove evolution a myth or a religion .... because one needs a lot of imagination to find merit in  this theory (but so do a lot of novels have imagination) and a lot of blind faith to stick to it. 

I am not ashamed of the homework I have done on the subject and for that matter any other bible subjects.  I just feel sorry for you because people like you  start to believe their own human brilliance above that of the creator. As Roman 1:20 clearly says:  those people who reject the glory of god have NO excuse. They are like unthinking animals who flitter from one "theory" to the next.  They like to bluff themselves. because they really believe they are sophisticated and intellectual .... when they cannot even think for themselves that the first cell needed a ' membrane' to keep its contents in place.

The contents of the first protein would have dissipated into the surrounding fluids without a membrane......... just by chance a membrane and the particles needed for the first whole protein chain developed side by side ((miracle) - when it takes months for an entire team of nano-technologists to build ONE amino-acid  which will go into the protein chain.........Furthermore, they believe that the earth was stable for millions of years....... no bad weather , no disasters, vulcanos etc etc... so the complicated chemical particles were stable for millions of years and could form to create a complicated chain which folds only in a specific way and could stay together and bind together over millions of years to form one protein.   The "fairy-take "goldilocks " conditions were perfect for millions of years so that these amino acids would not dissipate.

The millions of miracles (each random change which happened by chance) which is  needed to happen  in evolution is more far-fetched than the few miracles mentioned in the bible. Mathematics has proven that it would take more years than the universe has existed to create one protein chain...... it is so complicated.  The cell structure is so complicated... it is an entire factory with a transport system and two different kinds of DNA in different parts of the cell.  A kind of operating system like windows....... Mitochondrial DNA which up till now was believed to only come from the first woman and our 46 genes, junk DNA and epigenetics combined to make us a unique person. 

Mathematicians have written about the deceit in the mathematics of evolution and the tests to determine the age of fossils.  I believe i gave you the name of the book I was reading at the time of our previous discussion on the subject.  Your distain does not bother me......  I have only pity for you....  and those with your kind of mindset.

[AlanF]

9 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

If you’d give a little bit more attention to you adhominem, it wouldn’t happen.

When I hit you with an ad hominem, it's AFTER considering what you've said. Often, the only possible response to your incoherent or poorly written nonsense is that.

9 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Low information people are prone to overestimate their command of a subject?

Indeed, as you so amply demonstrate.

9 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Is that really such a profound observation so as to wait for Dunning and Kruger to give it academic endorsement? Just read up on the “fool” in the Bible and you will pick up the same.

I had you pegged well before learning about Dunning-Kruger. Learning about it simply gave me a label for your mindset.

9 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Nor does ad hominem have much to do with Dunning Kruger. If it did, you would be in the corner wearing a DunningK cap that could be seen from Mars.

This is an example of your inability to think clearly. You stuck my name in your parody of The Emperor's New Clothes, which has nothing to do with that effect.

9 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

If you could come out of yourself for five minutes, you would realize that I display the very opposite of Dunning Kruger on this forum.

LOL! Yes, and you're a rocket scientist, too.

9 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Per the DK definition, I should be expected to try to dominate that endlessly long 607 discussion, overestimating my ability, and thereby displaying my ignorance. Instead, I’m aware that I don’t know much about the subject, and so I sit it out. 

Wrong as usual. Dunning-Kruger sufferers are not necessarily aggressive, and often know just enough to know that they have some limitations.

9 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

So while DK might be a notion worthy of a pamphlet, it has little application here. You just seize upon it because you think it makes a good insult.

Like I said, I already had you pegged. Your little essays reek of "C" level writing ability masquerading as "A" level.

[Srecko Sostar]

On 12/31/2020 at 5:56 PM, Arauna said:

I have,  and I have come to the conclusion that the earth-wide flood is responsible for the layers we see on earth today.... and the movement of Pangea as it is today.  There is a model which explains much of it.  The flood was a destructive event with tsunamis, earthquakes, volcanos erupting and major movement of Teutonic plates 

Pangea, also spelled Pangaea, in early geologic time, a supercontinent that incorporated almost all the landmasses on Earth......Geologic time, the extensive interval of time occupied by the geologic history of Earth. Formal geologic time begins at the start of the Archean Eon (4.0 billion to 2.5 billion years ago) and continues to the present day. Modern geologic time scales additionally often include the Hadean Eon, which is an informal interval that extends from about 4.6 billion years ago (corresponding to Earth’s initial formation) to 4.0 billion years ago. - https://www.britannica.com/place/Pangea   https://www.britannica.com/science/geologic-time

This explains why ocean floor rocks are generally less than 200 million years old whereas the oldest continental rocks are more than 4 billion years old. - https://www.britannica.com/science/plate-tectonics/Seafloor-spreading

According to Britannica, and to my understanding of these information, Creation Days according to WTJWorg lasted very short compared to the millions of years described by Britannica. General attitude about length of 1 Creative Day is about 7000 years in WTJWorg publications. By that JW members are misinformed by WTJWorg about history of Earth and Life on Earth. 

Pangea was surrounded by a global ocean called Panthalassa, and it was fully assembled by the Early Permian Epoch (some 299 million to 273 million years ago).

 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

In this Bible verses i see similarity about "Pangea", you speaking about, and "dry ground". Also about "gathered waters". Bible said how in Day 3 that happened. So, we again have problem with WTJWorg view about what was/is length of Creative Day. JW's publications never connected each Creative Day with millions of years. 

In light of what was said your statement or opinion or belief how: The flood was a destructive event with tsunamis, earthquakes, volcanos erupting and major movement of Teutonic plates is not supported with this Britannica quotes. Of course, Britannica don't bring exact, fixed numbers of years. But difference in view of length time with WTJWorg is drastic.  

Bible don't speaking nothing about elements you put in focus (tsunamis, earthquakes, volcanos erupting and major movement of Teutonic plates). Bible speaking only about water!

Also, Bible said that God said this: I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish....The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than fifteen cubits.

Nothing about anything else, but only about water as tool for destroying all life and to cover mountains. 

 

[AlanF]

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

You focus on one  spelling mistake

You made far more than a mere spelling mistake -- you made a gross conceptual mistake. You proved -- contrary to your implied claims -- that you've never read one iota about plate tectonics, or even geology, from reputable sources.

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

because you do not have real proof of fossils

There are billions of fossils. What planet are you living on?

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

 

- how invertebrates suddenly became vertebrates,

Not suddenly. Over tens of millions of years. Read the book Your Inner Fish by Neil Shubin. It will give you a lot to chew on.

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

how the wing suddenly developed....

It didn't. Wings developed over many tens of millions of years. First in insects, later and independently in pterosaurs, still later in the dinosaurs that morphed into birds, and finally in bats.

And of course, the fossil record of these creatures completely disproves "the order of creation" stated in Genesis -- a subject you carefully avoid. Amphibians appear in the fossil record of some 365 million years ago -- some 130 million years before the first pterosaurs. Dinosaurs first appear some 230 million years ago -- some 70 million years before the first more-or-less birds like Archaeopteryx. True mammals first appear some 200 million years ago -- 150 million years before any bats. Yet Genesis says that ALL flying creatures were created before ANY land creatures.

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

how the Cambrian explosion produced fully developed animals

It did not. I've corrected you several times on this. The Cambrian period began about 541 million years ago -- something like 90 million years after a great number of pre-cambrian creatures first appeared. Read about the Ediacaran fauna, for example. Once sufficient oxygen accumulated in the atmosphere, animals with little teeth and small shells appeared in the earliest Cambrian, then animals with bigger teeth and shells -- all over a period of some 20 million years. You've been misled by your Creationist sources. I suggest reading The Cambrian Explosion: The Construction of Animal Biodiversity by Erwin and Valentine as an antidote.

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

when only a few trilobites could be found in the previous layer

NO trilobites have been found in pre-cambrian strata. Obviously you can't even remember what your Creationist sources say. Trilobites appear some 20 million years AFTER the beginning of the Cambrian Period: https://www.amnh.org/research/paleontology/collections/fossil-invertebrate-collection/trilobite-website/the-trilobite-files/the-first-trilobites

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

...... so NO progressive development found (no fossil record) in the millions of years in between the two layers....

Complete nonsense.

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

and suddenly we find rhino and dinosaur and various animals together

Utter nonsense. Prove it.

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

-  conveniently left out of all evolutionary records.

There's that defective memory again.

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

 And don't bother to answer with another "theory" which cannot be proved ....or the insults -  which are the only thing you are really good at..  

Yes, suggesting that you read reputable sources rather than nonsensical, dishonest Creationist crap is highly insulting.

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

I do not waste my time any longer on a person like you who can only insult and cannot provide empirical  evidence.

Read the books I suggested.

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

Peer reviews  are also not acceptable because it just means that scientists stand together to protect their turf and do not have any respect for the truth. It is a religion masquerading as a science and playing beautifully into the hands of satan's goals.

Yes, your usual conspiracy theory garbage.

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

Unfortunately I have lost respect for many of the sciences..... they now produce results which their money sponsors desire.  Just look at the global warming fiasco for one.... example

Ah, yes -- a perfect proof of conspiracy theory nonsense. And that you're reading Creationist nonsense.

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

Apart from this - the math does not add up

Do the math and prove it.

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

and I will not even go into the protein and nano-technology aspects which prove evolution a myth or a religion ....

That's rich, coming from someone too ignorant to know the difference between "Teutonic" and "tectonic".

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

because one needs a lot of imagination to find merit in  this theory (but so do a lot of novels have imagination) and a lot of blind faith to stick to it. 

Nowhere near as much faith as demonstrably false Bible and Watchtower stories.

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

I am not ashamed of the homework I have done on the subject and for that matter any other bible subjects.

Homework? LOL! Creationist sources -- condemned even by Watchtower writers -- is rather bad homework.

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

The contents of the first protein would have dissipated into the surrounding fluids without a membrane......... . . .

[Nonsensical blah blah blah deleted ]

More proof you don't know what you're talking about: the origin of life -- abiogenesis -- is NOT part of the Theory of Evolution. Despite what the Watchtower and Creationists would have you believe.

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

The millions of miracles (each random change which happened by chance) which is  needed to happen  in evolution is more far-fetched than the few miracles mentioned in the bible. Mathematics has proven that it would take more years than the universe has existed to create one protein chain......

Nonsense. Point us to your sources for the math. Oh yeah, it's just more Creationist crap.

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

Mathematicians have written about the deceit in the mathematics of evolution

Oh? WHICH mathematicians? Members of the Creationist Discovery Institute like William Dembski, Michael Behe, Stephen Meyer, and David Berlinski? Committed Creationists all?

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

and the tests to determine the age of fossils.

Ah yes. But not Discovery Institute members, who generally accept the old age of the earth and life, but nonsense from the Young-Earth Creationists. Again, you're so ignorant even of Watchtower teaching that you don't understand that the Society explicitly condemned YECism nearly 40 years ago. See Awake!, March 8, 1983, p. 12.

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

I believe i gave you the name of the book I was reading at the time of our previous discussion on the subject. 

 

Not that I'm aware. Give it to me again. I probably already have it in my library.

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

Your distain does not bother me......  I have only pity for you....  and those with your kind of mindset.

Spare me.

[AlanF]

49 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Bible don't speaking nothing about elements you put in focus (tsunamis, earthquakes, volcanos erupting and major movement of Teutonic plates). Bible speaking only about water!

Arauna is grossly ignorant of even Watchtower teaching, much less science generally. She seems to have got stuck in what the WTS was more or less teaching 40 years ago and more. By 1983 the WTS was condemning Young-Earth Creationism as "unscriptural" and unscientific. Today's YECs, following the completely nutty Walter Brown's "hydroplate theory", claim that all phenomena of plate tectonics were caused by a rapid movement of the tectonic plates just 4,400 years ago -- ludicrously and physically impossible.