WATCHTOWER, 1991 - "HOW TO CHOOSE THE RIGHT RELIGION"

[TrueTomHarley]

53 minutes ago, xero said:

Now you'd be hard pressed to find a Catholic apostate, or a Lutheran apostate....

What would they apostasize from?

Not only to the many verses dealing with apostasy reveal the nature of apostates. They also reveal the nature of the Christian congregation.

[JW Insider]

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

You have very, very good memory

These days it is easy to confuse memory with a good search engine.

[JW Insider]

20 hours ago, Anna said:

Grrrrr, that is so sad, and I would say unnecessary. But of course we are not masters of an other's conscience, so no one can judge him for that (I am not saying you are ) and say it was totally unnecessary. But, the ironic thing is, how was his conscience formed? Was it through the Bible, or was it through the interpretation and understanding of some men who have erred in the past over a number of things?

@Srecko Sostar asked how it was that I got through the material with him in the first place, and this is the key. During a study with someone I don't think it's my place to tell him where I might think differently, or why certain material may be questionable. But I don't have to go against my own conscience by saying things I don't believe. I can emphasize the points of agreement and defend, to a large extent, the basic concepts of the 1914 doctrine. And I end up in pretty much the same place: that we are in the last days, that Jesus is reigning, that Jesus is invisibly present, and that we are undergoing critical times hard to deal with. But when I go through Daniel 4, I present the 7 times as one of those ideas that might even point to our own time period.  (I believe it does point to our time period in the sense that it shows Jehovah still has everything under control, no matter how chaotic the effects of world governments are.)

I will typically add a bit of scriptural balance by pointing out what Jesus said about knowing the day and hour, and what Jesus said about the times and seasons being in the Father's jurisdiction, and Paul saying that we don't need to have anything more written to us about the times and seasons, or even the parousia itself, for the reasons he gave. But it is natural for us to want to see whatever we think is possible to see, and we live in times when it is important to keep our hope alive during an age of fear and distress upon all nations. This is especially true of times that can see conflicts escalate into world wars. When half a nation will take sides against the other half, or half a world will take sides against the other half.

What I think is obviously quite different than what appears in the WT, and I can't blame his own conscience. I am surprised that it came up years later, but fortunate enough that I am not "turned in" for my own conscientious beliefs. (I can believe that something made him doubt the chronology himself to trigger his dredging it up and then choosing to dig in his heels.) But it is sad to lose good friend.

[TrueTomHarley]

33 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

this is the key. During a study with someone I don't think it's my place to tell him where I might think differently

When I pioneered years ago as an unmarried 20-something, I drove a school bus to support myself.

“You enjoy your job, don’t you?” said my mentor in another congregation. “I haven’t said so,” I replied.

”No, but you never said you didn’t,” was his reply.

[JW Insider]

30 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

When I pioneered years ago as an unmarried 20-something, I drove a school bus to support myself.

I imagine it had very clean windows. 😉

My brother drove a school bus in Missouri at age 18, although he wasn't pioneering. Not to be outdone, my mother (!?!?!?!) added a "chauffer's" designation to her license and drove a school bus while pioneering. You are the very first other Witness I know who also drove a school bus while pioneering.

My brother tells a story that he kept the kids in line by offering to allow them water balloons on the bus on the very last day of school, but that he threatened to revoke the promise every time some of them acted up too much. On the last day of school he allowed it and noticed that the bus had a slight tilt that made the back a little lower than the front, so that he could hear the water sloshing around the floor of the bus. When he got to the first stop sign on a downslope, a wave of water came crashing towards the front of the bus. Good times!

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

You are the very first other Witness I know who also drove a school bus while pioneering.

It was a perfect job for a pioneer. I actually lived in a basement apt at the Kingdom Hall then. I would arise in the AM, drive about 1/4 mile to the bus barns, and be back in time for the text. 4 hours in the field and I was back for the afternoon runs.

I know several who do it now. In some areas, the pay is quite good for a part-time job. It is that way where I live.

And yes, even though living at the Kingdom Hall, I would still sometimes be late for meetings.

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

“You enjoy your job, don’t you?” said my mentor in another congregation. “I haven’t said so,” I replied.

”No, but you never said you didn’t,” was his reply.

:))) it is the conversation of two sages, that is, philosophers

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

When he got to the first stop sign on a downslope, a wave of water came crashing towards the front of the bus. Good times!

There were some models—not one that I ever drove, they were being phased out—that if all the high school kids crammed in the back of the bus, they could lift the front wheels.

I learned the truth during my senior year of college. After graduation, I determined to pioneer. Unlike some more mature youngsters, I never knew what I was doing there anyway. I had been (this for Srecko’s sake) “manipulated” to be there. If your grades were not in the toilet, there is no way the high school would tolerate your not going to college unless you had strong reason not to go, and I didn’t. I took the path of least resistance. I used my time poorly there. When I returned for some specific course work 40 years later I had the time of my life—goals make all the difference.

As I get older, I appreciate what this must have meant for my parents. When your child graduates from college, you want some “bragging rights.” It’s not why you sent him there, but it is part of the anticipated package. What did my parents get? A kid who drove a school bus and rang the doorbells of their neighbors to tell them about this weird religion. All the more “tragic” because I went to school mostly on their dime. It was quite doable back then, even if not so today.

My dad did not have any problem with it. Raised on a farm, he was not impressed with the pretensions of men. “You raise you kids and after that their life is for them to live,” he would say. Accordingly I am pretty much like that today with my own kids, one of whom remained with the faith and one of who did not.

But my mom had a tougher time with it. It was all the more so when one of her contemporaries—a mom of one of my classmates—urged her early on to “get him out of there!” But in time some of her friends would invite me in to hear me out. One of them studied for a time. They all sent back good reports to reassure her that whatever I was doing I was well-spoken about it and it was doing me no harm. I wasn’t “tuning in, turning on, and dropping out.”

 

[Srecko Sostar]

30 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

“You enjoy your job, don’t you?” said my mentor in another congregation. “I haven’t said so,” I replied.

”No, but you never said you didn’t,” was his reply.

:))) it is the conversation of two sages, that is, philosophers

Let me comment again on this. They (people) could conclude the following: If you say nothing AGAINST something, then others might (perhaps rightly) conclude that 1) the person knows nothing about the true state of affairs or 2) that his silence justifies, supports and allows the status quo.

Of course there is also point 3) and 4) but i would not want to complicate :))

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

On 2/24/2021 at 3:06 PM, JW Insider said:

When you become wise enough to know that God & Christ are not part of the Watchtower / CCJW, then you will have spiritual wisdom.

What this means is that God and Christ are not 'owned' by the Watchtower / CCJW. 

Unfortunately the Org teaches that if a person leaves the Org then that person has left God and Christ.

I was making the TRUE point that God and Christ are not part of the Watchtower / CCJW.  God and Christ are far superior to a man made Organisation. 

On 2/24/2021 at 3:06 PM, JW Insider said:

in basic agreement with Witness

@Witness has her own viewpoint and i have my own viewpoint. We may have the same view on a few matters, but that is purely coincidental. I do not spend my time agreeing with her. 

On 2/24/2021 at 3:06 PM, JW Insider said:

you appear to expect a separate "perfect" organization run by True Anointed, which is not related to the CCJW,

I have on many occasions said this " Either the JW Org will be cleansed, or another Organisation will be built up"

But please remember that i have to be careful what i can say here, due to the reason John Butler was d/fed from this forum.  I will just say that I do not believe the GB are of the True Anointed and i expect the True Anointed to leads God's willing servants.  We've had this discussion about the word 'perfect' many times before. The scripture at Matthew 5 v 48

You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

It is the True Anointed that must be 'perfect' by God's standards, through Christ, so as to lead God's servants.  Zechariah 8 v 23 

“This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘In those days ten men out of all the languages of the nations will take hold, yes, they will take firm hold of the robe of a Jew, saying: “We want to go with you, for we have heard that God is with you people.”’”

That JEW is the True Anointed, and they will lead God's willing servants. 

On 2/24/2021 at 3:06 PM, JW Insider said:

The JW Org is not recognisable as being high  above the others, it is not recognised for pure worship, it is seen as being just as filthy as all the others and seen as telling just as many lies too.

This is true in the case of CSA. I believe that the Australian Royal Commision first looked at CSA regarding the Catholic Church, but if had to include other religions so as not to seem 'prejudiced'. Hence the JW Org / W/t was examined too. and the current IICSA investigation is of many religions, including the JW Org / W/t.  So we see the JW Org is not recognisable above the other religions. 

On 2/24/2021 at 3:06 PM, JW Insider said:

But there will be an Organisation that stands tall above all others. A pure and truthful organisation run by true Anointed. It will suffer persecution because it will be so pure and good and because it will serve God through Jesus Christ properly. It will give true direction and not have to keep changing its mind. 

Now I do not know if this pure Organisation will be a restored / cleansed JW Org (maybe with a change of name), or if it will be a 'New Organisation', but if it is the JW Org restored, it would need time to gain the confidence of true Christians. The True Anointed would have to prove that they are worthy of being 'followed' as per the JEW scripture. The Watchtower magazine would have to be completely revised or removed. All the books would need replacing, or maybe no books at all, as in truth all that is needed is God's word.   But all of this will come about by God's Holy Spirit.  

After all, in the 'last days', all religion will be banned it seems. So no books, no magazines, no KH, no assemblies, maybe all meeting in 'underground' places at different times each week. And, this is where it would be good to have the True Anointed Servants, in many different countries. Each country is different in many different ways. And at the time of the end, each country may be dealing with things differently. However, Holy Spirit can so very easily be directed to True Anointed ones in each country.  ALL things are possible with Almighty God, through Jesus Christ. 

[TrueTomHarley]

34 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Now I do not know if this pure Organisation will be a restored / cleansed JW Org (maybe with a change of name)

Yes. Word is out that we can expect a TA.org soon.

it will be a rebranding to keep up with the times. Like

MailChimp:

or

Starbucks:

or

IHOP:

 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

I notice that Tom is showing his jealously again in a childish way.

He will have such a long way to climb down when things happen.