IICSA: survivors speak of influence of religion

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

11 hours ago, xero said:

Opposers want to argue that the WTBS has full responsibility over individual conscience and its application. That's garbage as are the motives of those who suggest the same. These would Satanically deny humans free will and the consequent responsibility.

How true this is. It reminds me of the misuse of the Romans scripture regarding the Superior Authorities. 

But xero is showing his true colours once again. Garbage ?  The GB does deny free will to anyone that becomes a member of it's Org. They even demand baptism into the Org, not to God, Christ and Holy Spirit, as Jesus instructed.

The GB even decide what type of clothing people should wear. And oh dear, remember the Beard problem ? 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

10 hours ago, Anna said:

If you are so concerned about it why don't you do some proper research instead of just inventing theories of your own. I think I know what your reply will be; You can't be bothered to do research.

This was a very childish / emotional comment from you Anna. 

I often said, and I will repeat, the one thing I've learnt in life is that I do not know the true 'truth' about anything. 

It is impossible to know true facts of a situation without actually being in the exact location at the time of the action.

( I love the song "In the air tonight" by Phil Collins. The words, "I was there and I saw what you did. Saw it with my own two eyes") 

That is the only way of knowing truth. And you will know that I did three months 'research' about the JW Org, before I resigned from it. 

I am not frightened of doing research, but most of it is pointless, because it comes from one side (defense) or the other side (attack), so is never neutral or 100% true. 

The only worthwhile 'research' is God's written word, but I don't pretend to understand much of it as it was written for the Anointed not for me.  Yes it contains some basic instruction for all, but mainly for the Anointed to understand. 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

11 hours ago, xero said:

I wonder why people bother answering some of these opposers when A. They are often atheists who have no business even referencing morality as there is no such thing  as morality w/o God B. They support abortion as well C. They hate the nuclear family D. They actually promote abuse of children w/transgender ideology

- Quite frankly they are full of it.

 

What a very sad and un-Christian outlook and judgement of people.  Your true colours xero. And you say you are an Elder. You must run a very sad congregation.

The Jews had God but they were immoral. The JW Org pretends to have God's approval, but the Org is immoral. 

Now as you and others think the scriptures are for everyone. Take a few lessons from this.

Matthew 5 from verse 44

However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, ⁴⁵  so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous. ⁴⁶  For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? ⁴⁷  And if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing? ⁴⁸  You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

1, Love your enemies, and those who persecute you;

2, Jesus was making it clear here that people do love their own families. 

So, if you 'are' a Christian then think on scripture before being so unkind to others. 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

10 hours ago, Anna said:

If an individual feels that he is inferior spiritually to someone else and wants someone else’s “spiritual opinion and guidance” then that is up to them.

This is so funny............. The GB have demoted the Anointed ones. The GB have said ONLY THEY are the Faithful and Discreet Slave. The GB have placed themselves above all other people on this Earth by saying only they are God's mouthpiece. 

And then Anna says "If an individual feels that he is inferior spiritually to someone else"

The GB have made everyone spiritually inferior. THE GB expects all JWs to obey them. 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

10 hours ago, Anna said:

If someone wants to ask what does the GB say on the matter, then as long as what they have to say is based on the Bible, then that’s OK too. If we have a Bible, it is up to us to verify if what they say is based on it.

This is where a True Anointed in needed. Because your GB have placed themselves above all others by stating that Only They are the F&DS. Therefore the GB will say everyone else is wrong in their interpretation of God's word. 

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

Context: Think of these things

(Philippians 4:8) 8 Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are of serious concern, whatever things are righteous, whatever things are chaste, whatever things are lovable, whatever things are well-spoken-of, whatever things are virtuous, and whatever things are praiseworthy, continue considering these things. . .
 

How do people apply scripture in their daily lives, in public or private. I know you hate to hear the truth Srecko just like everyone here. But try learning something while you continue to be here.

Verse is great, but WTJWorg context makes it less great.

[Srecko Sostar]

6 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Actually, those that are true Christians within the Watchtower, know it, only to well, and they apply it to their daily, lives. So, to those witnesses, the WT is making the context understood properly. While other Christian faiths, continue in their old ways. Enjoy, you're night Srecko! 

Thank you. Every man has his nights and days.  

[Anna]

On 3/5/2021 at 1:06 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

Good explanation, for sure. But please, don't forget that we are dealing with a religious system in which rank and file need to "know" who teachers and representatives are. That is, to express ourselves in WTJWorg jargon, who is the "channel" through which "all truth and knowledge" comes. ". In this "channel" members should have confidence, trust (statements from GB+Helpers members on JWTV and in publications). Also this channel is “the only one authorized by God and Jesus”, as JW's believe, to give lessons, interpretations and direction.

In this and such context we have to deal with your fine observation and explanation

I already put it in context: As long as this “channel” is in line with Bible principles, then Christians can have confidence in it can’t they?  Your context is erroneous, because it is up to us to make sure that they are in line with Bible principles (make sure of all things) If we did not make sure, then we would just be like any other people who have confidence in anyone who claims to be a prophet or “channel” from God. Why not have confidence in Charles Manson, Jim Jones or David Koresh? Many people did.

I have for a while seen a pattern emerge with ex-Witnesses. It always seems to be those who have not done their research, who have not made sure of all things, who have not “made the truth their own". They had put all their confidence not in the Bible, but in imperfect men, who are fallible and make mistakes. Then when the mistakes of these men disappoint them, then they lose their confidence in them, (which is not surprising of course) and leave. But had they (the ex-JWs) been reasonable, and remembered that “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23) they may have been able to figure things out, work things trough, like the rest of us have. It doesn’t matter if they are anointed and so full of holy spirit till it pours out of their ears. They are still imperfect and make mistakes. Just like ALL the faithful men and women in Bible times. The only one who could claim perfection was Jesus. And yet Jesus dealt with all these imperfect people. Why? Because they wanted to follow him. They wanted to be his disciples and let Jesus teach and guide them. So, when the GB want to follow Jesus, and want to be his disciples, and want to encourage others to be his disciples, they will allow Jesus to teach them and guide them. This is why they will want to base everything on the Scriptures, because this is where the teachings and guidance from Jesus is found. In the ARC hearing, one of the councilors was puzzled, and even a bit upset that the JWs want to follow ancient guidelines from 2000 years ago. I rest my case.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

56 minutes ago, Anna said:

I rest my case.

No problem.

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, César Chávez said:

If the bias Australian Royal Commission had a problem with the two-witness rule?

Slow down please. EVERY Commission can be biased. Even JW elders Judicial Committee (Commission). They are all only human, as people would say (justifies) when something goes wrong.  :))

3 hours ago, César Chávez said:

(Deuteronomy 17:5-7) ⁵ you must bring the man or the woman who has done this evil thing out to the city gates, and the man or the woman must be stoned to death. ⁶ On the testimony of two witnesses or of three witnesses the one who is to die should be put to death. He must not be put to death on the testimony of one witness. ⁷ The hand of the witnesses should be the first to come against him to put him to death, and the hand of all the people afterward. You must remove what is bad from your midst.

Who should be put to death by whom in ARC ???? 

3 hours ago, César Chávez said:

 (Matthew 18:15-17) ¹⁵ “Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go and reveal his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. ¹⁶ But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, so that on the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. ¹⁷ If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector

Read again verse 16. This "two or more" who should be "taken along" are not witnesses of wrongdoing but witnesses of (victim) who going to his/her bro/sis for conversation about alleged sin he/she made to her/him. Again, they are witnesses of "second approach" because "first approach" failed. JW elders, and you, have error interpretations and application.

3 hours ago, César Chávez said:

 (1 Timothy 5:19, 20) ¹⁹ Do not accept an accusation against an older man except on the evidence of two or three witnesses. ²⁰ Reprove before all onlookers those who practice sin, as a warning to the rest.

What if accused is "younger man" ??? Or individual (male, female, child) without "title"???

3 hours ago, César Chávez said:

(John 8:16-19) . . .. ¹⁷ Also, in your own Law it is written: ‘The witness of two men is true.’ ¹⁸ I am one who bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.” ¹⁹ Then they said to him: . . .

This is super. Jesus said; "In your own Law ..." Very specific choice of words - YOUR OWN. He didn't say My Father Law, or My Teaching, but YOUR OWN LAW.  Jesus beat them with their own weapons aka Their Own Law. Nothing about what you want to sell us here.

Stick to Context Brother Cesar! :)))  

[Srecko Sostar]

20 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

3 hours ago, César Chávez said:

(John 8:16-19) . . .. ¹⁷ Also, in your own Law it is written: ‘The witness of two men is true.’ ¹⁸ I am one who bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.” ¹⁹ Then they said to him: . . .

This is super. Jesus said; "In your own Law ..." Very specific choice of words - YOUR OWN. He didn't say My Father Law, or My Teaching, but YOUR OWN LAW.  Jesus beat them with their own weapons aka Their Own Law. Nothing about what you want to sell us here.

Stick to Context Brother Cesar! :)))  

Appendix

Fact one) Jesus know how in some situation can be false and true witness/es 

Fact two) Jesus is witness about himself. Jesus is First Witness

Fact three) Father is invisible and is in The  Heaven. Father is Second Witness

Fact four) How would/will old Jew Judicial Committee summon Father for a hearing?

Fact five) Jesus put them in impossible position referring, invoking them to their own law.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

8 hours ago, César Chávez said:

especially those practiced in today's world of debauchery?

Now that is funny, coming from a so called JW that belongs to an immoral Org.