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IICSA: survivors speak of influence of religion


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8 hours ago, César Chávez said:

It is clear, you and "witness" don't understand, what the "Body of Christ" is, and How "Gods Holy Spirit" is granted, and to whom.

The Body of Christ is the TRUE ANOINTED.  That is fact and is backed up by many scriptures. 

8 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Are you, saying Catholics are following Christ commands and Gods laws just like the Watchtower? Hmm!

When have you heard the Watchtower say or publish it's okay to "kill" in the name of patronage? Homosexuality is okay, fornication is okay, Adultery is okay, etc. If you find a Watchtower article, let me know. 

I'm saying the Watchtower tells just as many lies as the Catholic Church, and the Watchtower is just as immoral. And the GB and it's laywers allow CSA to continue in the JW Org. 

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... apparently not, as it IS up to God ...

I request that all upvotes that might otherwise go to CC, who disdains them, be bestowed upon me instead. I need all I can get to counter the deluge of downvotes from 4Jah. Never could there be

(Proverbs 26:17) Like someone grabbing hold of a dog’s ears Is the one passing by who [meddles in] a quarrel that is not his. I have had hundreds of very similar exchanges with Allen/Billy/Cesar

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Thanks for another laugh @César Chávez.  I'm sure other people will laugh at you too. 

Did John Butler 'threaten' the GB. I note you put it in inverted commas.  No one covered for him, you (BillytheKid) complained so much he was d/fed from the forum. 

But do tell me, was it hate speech when Jesus condemned the Pharisees as hypocrites, white washed graves, ect ? 

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@César Chávez  Never answers questions directly, but slyly moves sideways to avoid the issues. This is typical JW practice, although i do not think CC is actually a JW at all.

16 hours ago, César Chávez said:

When do you suppose Jesus, you blaspheming idiot; think that Jesus "incited" others to damage, hurt and or kill others like you are doing?

I'm not actually sure what this is all about. CC unfortunately acts like a child in a tantrum throwing his toys out of the pram. 

I've no idea who i am 'supposed to be' inciting to damage, hurt or kill others.  Whereas the GB / Leaders of JW Org do incite the Elders to 'spiritually kill' congregants.  And to the point of giving orders 'not to contact people that have left the org, or have been de/fed', the GB & Co are guilty of the loss of life of those that commit suicide because of their 'orders'. 

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16 hours ago, César Chávez said:

You seem to know the difference.

To some extent. So, I see that Jesus pronounced condemnation (judgment). Did Jesus hate them? I don’t know much about it. I don’t know anything about how He felt about that feeling (hate). Maybe somewhere in the Bible it says that Jesus hated someone? I don't know.

But I know something else. Jesus sat at the table with some "sort of sinners". He ate, drank, talked, and even felt good with them. He also accepted the Pharisees' invitation to dinner and fellowship at the Pharisee's house. 

On other hand, he probably didn't hang out with "some other sort of sinners". Both "group of sinners" belonged to one congregation - the Jewish people.

It seems to me that His choice of whom to associate with was not about what  kind of sin particular individual done, but what He thought about sinner who was in question. But maybe I’m wrong, I’m not very familiar with this kind of topic. It would be good to hear more thoughts from others about it. 

16 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Learn it, or stop use it.

 What is this? Hate speech, Judgmental speech, Command speech? :))

I will use what @Witness comment on other topic. 

 Tony Morris:

“The final end of God’s enemies.  It can be very encouraging, albeit sobering…(Ps 37:20) Since they’re Jehovahs enemies, and Jehovah is our best friend, that means they’re our enemies. How we look forward to these enemies of Jehovah, our enemies vanishing like smoke.   

Fire would be a suitable means of eliminating such refuse.  What the fire would not consume the maggots would.  Now, I don’t know if you know much about maggots, you see a whole bunch of them…it’s not a pleasant sight; but what a fitting picture of the final end of all of God’s enemies. 

 

Sobering yet something we look forward to.

…they’re finally gonna be gone, all these despicable enemies that have just reproached Jehovah’s name, destroyed, never ever to live again.  Now its not that we rejoice in someone’s death, but when it comes to God’s enemies, finally, they’re out of the way…especially these despicable apostates who at one point had dedicated their life to God and then they joined forces with Satan the devil, the chief apostate of all time.” 

And also what @Kick_Faceinatorfind in WT magazine (in same topic):

Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil." Watchtower 1989 Sep 1 p.19

Here we have both in GB - hate and judgment. 

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22 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Did John Butler 'threaten' the GB. I note you put it in inverted commas.  No one covered for him, you (BillytheKid) complained so much he was d/fed from the forum. 

 

19 hours ago, César Chávez said:

A simple image post can resolve this issue. So, no, you were not removed because of complaints, but rather the threat you made against the GB.

I might even get in trouble for this because no one gave me permission to capture images of posts. But I promise The Librarian and admin(s?) that this is the only place I will do this (for this particular topic). Here is an image of BillyTheKid (Cesar Chavez) responding to the words of John Butler (4Jah2me) and another image in response to action taken by The Librarian:

Personally, I believe that the words from John Butler did not constitute a specific imminent threat, but they still reveal something dangerous. Even if it only reveals a "fantasy" that God by some miracle will "one day soon" find a way to kill a specific group of people, this fantasy may result in someone acting on it. If I were the forum owner/admin, I would have removed it and given the person a warning because the death fantasy is about a specific group of identifiable individuals. In this case I think BTK46 did the right thing to bring it to the attention of the forum owners. If they had allowed the continued promotion of these ideas, they could possibly even be held liable if someone had acted upon the fantasy.

I am only repeating two of the posts here because they put JB's words in an expository context, and they are being rightly confronted by BTK46 in this case.

image.png

 

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I think this is proof enough that John Butler DID NOT threaten the life of anyone. 

Therefore John Butler WAS removed because of BillyTheKid46 complaints. 

John Butler was clearly referring to an action that would be either by Angels or by God's Holy Spirit. 

The Librarian obviously knew this so it seems that JB was removed WITHOUT WARNING, just to please BTK.

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

Personally, I believe that the words from John Butler did not constitute a specific imminent threat, but they still reveal something dangerous. Even if it only reveals a "fantasy" that God by some miracle will "one day soon" find a way to kill a specific group of people,

All JB meant was that God is capable of doing anything God wishes to do. 

If believing that God CAN do miracles is a 'fantasy' in your eyes, then you have lost faith in God And Christ. 

And if you believe that God will continue to allow the stumbling of people that want to serve HIM, then I do believe you are in for a shock. 

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