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IICSA: survivors speak of influence of religion


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24 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

, a lie is an opinion. T

In America they call everything opinion.  a lie is not an opinion. I worked in USA for many years and one of the things which struck me was the indoctrination of the people (brainwashing in schools no doubt) to be "polite" to call a lie  an opinion.  I grew up in a country where a spade is called a spade.  A lie is a lie and an opinion is an opinion. 

 

24 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

ASK, don't just go off!! 

I did not go off - I just called it a lie to say that JWs change scriptures.  That is your opinion about my ignorance.  Any case - if you think you can get through to these people - forget it. They are a bunch of  deceivers and they are here to derail anyone who believes in Jehovah.  This is why I just pop  in quickly now and then.  I no longer deem it important to read through all the garbage - especially since my eyes are bad..  So maybe I am guilty of not paying attention to their lies.... lol..... I do not care .... why do you? 

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... apparently not, as it IS up to God ...

Parents are the ones who give consent to anyone, whether it be an Elder, a ministerial servant or a publisher to study the Bible with their child and/or go in service.  It is a private arrangement and agreement between the parent and the relevant person. Everyone is educated at the meetings, including the children who should sit with their parents. If someone else is "teaching their children" or if children are sitting with someone else besides their parents, then that is by the parents own arra

Noted, and probably deserved. It is good for me to be rebuked on this from time to time, for I might be far worse without it. On the other hand: Actually, arguing doesn’t play a role in “scriptural arguments.” You know the verses as well as I: debates about words, leave blind guides be, answering a fool, even spreading pearls before swine. At least if I spread stuff before “swine,” it is not pearls. I can think of a way of solving that problem. In addition to blasting away at

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1 hour ago, Arauna said:

Schrecko  said JWs are changing scripture.  You called it an opinion - I said it is a lie.  I should have said a 'blatant' lie to say we change scripture. We do not.  So just chill.

I didn't ask this issue, but i will provide you with one example of changing Bible text.

 

 When Jesus had again crossed over by boat to the other side of the lake, a large crowd gathered around him while he was by the lake. 22 Then one of the synagogue leaders, named Jairus, came, and when he saw Jesus, he fell at his feet. 23 He pleaded earnestly with him,  24     “My  little daughter is dying. Please come and put your hands on her so that she will be healed and live.”  So Jesus went with him. - mark 5 23 niv

After Jesus had crossed again by boat to the opposite shore, a large crowd gathered together to him, and he was by the sea.

    Hello guest!
 
    Hello guest!
 One of the presiding officers of the synagogue, named Jaʹi·rus, now came, and on catching sight of him, he fell at his feet.
    Hello guest!
 
    Hello guest!
 He pleaded with him many times, saying: “My little daughter is
extremely ill.
    Hello guest!
 (*near her end)
 Please come and put your hands on her
    Hello guest!
 so that she may get well and live.”
 
    Hello guest!
 At that Jesus went with him, and a large crowd was following him and pressing against him. - mark 5 23 nwt

While he was saying this, a synagogue leader came and knelt before him and said, "My daughter has just died. But come and put your hand on her, and she will live." -  matt 9 18 niv

While he was telling them these things, look! a certain ruler who had approached did obeisance to him, saying: “By now my daughter must be dead, but come and lay your hand on her, and she will come to life. - matt 9 18 nwt

What is the truth about Jairus' daughter? To whom we should believe, to Mark or Matthew? Or to NWT idea where they changed text into 3rd possibility;  By now my daughter must be dead ??

 

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1 minute ago, Srecko Sostar said:

My  little daughter is dying

I was in this situation when my daughter was so sick I knew she would not last long if the doctor did not see her.  I begged him to see her.

2 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

little daughter is extremely ill.

    Hello guest!
 (*near her end

She was extremely ill -  she has cancer but I did not know it. If the doctor had not seen her she would not have had her operation and survived.  It was my pleading that made him see her - I had to wait a few more weeks to get an appointment.

 

2 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

By now my daughter must be dead,

This I can understand because if my daughter did not see a doctor I am sure she would be dead.

You know what - this is typical of your rhetoric.  You have never had problems - I guess - not real ones.  So you can sit and nitpick on trashy ideas from your own making. I see NO discrepancy in any of these sentence because I have been there and I would have used and could have used the same words.... for the same situation.

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1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

objective as well as subjective regardless if a s

American thinking......     there is nothing subjective about a lie. A  lie is a lie.   

There was nothing subjective about satan's deceit "you will not die!"  It was a blatant lie.

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2 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I didn't ask this issue, but i will provide you with one example of changing Bible text.

 

 When Jesus had again crossed over by boat to the other side of the lake, a large crowd gathered around him while he was by the lake. 22 Then one of the synagogue leaders, named Jairus, came, and when he saw Jesus, he fell at his feet. 23 He pleaded earnestly with him,  24     “My  little daughter is dying. Please come and put your hands on her so that she will be healed and live.”  So Jesus went with him. - mark 5 23 niv

After Jesus had crossed again by boat to the opposite shore, a large crowd gathered together to him, and he was by the sea.

    Hello guest!
 
    Hello guest!
 One of the presiding officers of the synagogue, named Jaʹi·rus, now came, and on catching sight of him, he fell at his feet.
    Hello guest!
 
    Hello guest!
 He pleaded with him many times, saying: “My little daughter is
extremely ill.
    Hello guest!
 (*near her end)
 Please come and put your hands on her
    Hello guest!
 so that she may get well and live.”
 
    Hello guest!
 At that Jesus went with him, and a large crowd was following him and pressing against him. - mark 5 23 nwt

While he was saying this, a synagogue leader came and knelt before him and said, "My daughter has just died. But come and put your hand on her, and she will live." -  matt 9 18 niv

While he was telling them these things, look! a certain ruler who had approached did obeisance to him, saying: “By now my daughter must be dead, but come and lay your hand on her, and she will come to life. - matt 9 18 nwt

What is the truth about Jairus' daughter? To whom we should believe, to Mark or Matthew? Or to NWT idea where they changed text into 3rd possibility;  By now my daughter must be dead ??

 

I'm not sure those should be your best examples. When you're dealing with greek, there's a latitude of way one might express it in english - context is everything. Not only this, NWT isn't unique in its matter of translating it in this manner.

    Hello guest!

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1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

It's not an American thing to brainwash people with simple logic.

Americans do not think they are brainwashed -  but they think in a certain way.  I realized it was the schooling when I worked there.  Similar today.  The whole nation is going ahead with the post modern philosophy thing..... why?  Because people are too afraid to call out the lies - they are politically correct.  The world is going one way - because they do not call a lie out any longer - it is merely a difference of opinion.

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1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

It is obvious that you never had a clue of our teachings or are simply lying about what you know.

Please explain what I did wrong.  I am prepared to listen to you if you really have superior insight!  I merely commented that it was a lie and not a different opinion. 

I call a lie a lie.

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Just now, xero said:

I'm not sure those should be your best examples. When you're dealing with greek, there's a latitude of way one might express it in english - context is everything. Not only this, NWT isn't unique in its matter of translating it in this manner.

    Hello guest!

Thanks, but these are not my examples but Bible text ... and some English translations. I am not dealing with Greek language but with nowadays languages (English and Croatian translations)

Is she sick?
Has she already died?
Will she die while we talk and walk?
 

 

 

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Just now, Srecko Sostar said:

Thanks, but these are not my examples but Bible text ... and some English translations. I am not dealing with Greek language but with nowadays languages (English and Croatian translations)

Is she sick?
Has she already died?
Will she die while we talk and walk?
 

 

 

I don't get the fascination. I speak Spanish, and depending on where you are, "estoy en cuerpo" can mean something innocuous, or it could be a come on.

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2 hours ago, César Chávez said:

I said it before, and I will remind everyone here again. NONE of you people here are my spiritual brothers. Like I told JWinsider, I don't need his up votes nor yours.

I request that all upvotes that might otherwise go to CC, who disdains them, be bestowed upon me instead. I need all I can get to counter the deluge of downvotes from 4Jah.

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

if you think you can get through to these people - forget it. ...I no longer deem it important to read through all the garbage - especially since my eyes are bad. 

Never could there be a worse waste of already strained eyes.

35 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Please explain what I did wrong. 

Better people than you have tried to figure this out. I wouldn’t lose sleep over it. I’m not sure what happened either. Last I checked he was upvoting you routinely.

 

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Wow I just thought I'd pop over here to this forum for a few minutes and wow. 

CC aka Billy the Kid is busy threatening John Butler again. Tom is needing upvotes to couteract my downvotes.

Poor Arauna is being spoken to rather badly by CC. Srecko is the only one here making any sense. 

For my part, i know that the Watchtower / GB / JW Org are dishonest and alter the meaning of scripture to suit their own need. But as i know it as fact, then i don't need to prove it to others. 

Have a good day y'all. 

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