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IICSA: survivors speak of influence of religion


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... apparently not, as it IS up to God ...

Parents are the ones who give consent to anyone, whether it be an Elder, a ministerial servant or a publisher to study the Bible with their child and/or go in service.  It is a private arrangement and agreement between the parent and the relevant person. Everyone is educated at the meetings, including the children who should sit with their parents. If someone else is "teaching their children" or if children are sitting with someone else besides their parents, then that is by the parents own arra

Noted, and probably deserved. It is good for me to be rebuked on this from time to time, for I might be far worse without it. On the other hand: Actually, arguing doesn’t play a role in “scriptural arguments.” You know the verses as well as I: debates about words, leave blind guides be, answering a fool, even spreading pearls before swine. At least if I spread stuff before “swine,” it is not pearls. I can think of a way of solving that problem. In addition to blasting away at

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24 minutes ago, xero said:

That was lengthy, Tom, but interesting. I keep trying to keep my head up because if I look at what's happening I find my anxiety increasing and wondering "Is it now?" and like the scripture says "expectation postponed makes the heart sick".

I hate to say it, but I am quite comfy personally as is—though of course I realize this is not true of the greater brotherhood and may not continue to hold true for me. 

I have carved myself a unique little niche, partly due to a modest innate talent and partly because I am not good at anything else. Will the new system liberate me in that regard? Or will the brothers say, “Aren’t you the one who hung out on that squirrelly site to battle the ne’er-do-wells after we said you ought not? Hmm. What are your qualifications? Battling “apostates?” Too bad for you there aren’t any now.” ?

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On 2/25/2021 at 5:01 PM, César Chávez said:

How can the UK Parliament make significant changes if the problem comes from within? The same problem Australia has. You seem to dismiss the corruption that is found with these panels and governments. If they shield their own, what then? The ARC did the same thing when it tried and failed to "HIDE" certain crimes from government run institutions, by government employee's. 

Whilst I agree that governments / panels are not to be fully trusted and are part of Satan's world and commit as much sin as the rest of the world. There are a couple of things to consider. 

1. Almighty God allows those governments to be there and HE has had it put in scripture that people should obey those 'Superior Authorities'.  So, as it does not disobey God then those Superior Authorities should be obeyed. 

2. It does no good at all to be concerned with their sins. If they are finding real problems in any religion, then those religions should admit the problems are there and be totally honest about dealing with them. That includes paying compensation if the law of the land demands it. 

The ARC didn't 'pick on' the JW Org. The JW Org was just one religion investigated.  Most other religions and other organisations joined the scheme to pay compensation. The JW Org did not. 

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31 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Aren’t you the one who hung out on that squirrelly site to battle the ne’er-do-wells after we said you ought not? Hmm. What are your qualifications? Battling “apostates?” Too bad for you there aren’t any now.”

“Here’s a hammer. Go build your house. See if you can get one of the brothers to show you how it works.”

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1 minute ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I hate to say it, but I am quite comfy personally as is—though of course I realize this is not true of the greater brotherhood and may not continue to hold true for me. 

I have carved myself a unique little niche, partly due to a modest innate talent and partly because I am not good at anything else. Will the new system liberate me in that regard? Or will the brothers say, “Aren’t you the one who hung out on that squirrelly site to battle the ne’er-do-wells after we said you ought not? Hmm. What are your qualifications? Battling “apostates”—too bad for you there aren’t any now.” ?

I hope it continues for you. I keep praying for more faith and understanding. I keep circling back to the logic I've used for some time now - 1. I've established there is a creator 2. I've philosophically determined that all good qualities which exist necessarily inhere in this creator and that in a greater supply than I 3. That there is a reason for all this pain and suffering and that it will end... It's this last part. The time involved which I think is the point which eats away at one...Understanding why so long at times...

 

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31 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

The JW Org was just one religion investigated

There were no religions investigated as religions. What was investigated was institutional abuse of schools, clubs, and daycamps within those religions, not the religion itself.

    Hello guest!
 —for abuse that happened to occur among the families of the rank and file, something the other groups have no mechanism even of tracking.

35 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Most other religions and other organisations joined the scheme to pay compensation. The JW Org did not. 

The reason is above. It is indeed a scheme tailor made for institutional abuse, not for abuse that occurs among families that are religious. 

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3 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

There were no religions investigated as religions. What was investigated was institutional abuse of schools, clubs, and daycamps within those religions, not the religion itself.

    Hello guest!
 —for abuse that happened to occur among the families of the rank and file, something the other groups have no mechanism even of tracking.

The reason is above. It is indeed a scheme tailor made for institutional abuse, not for abuse that occurs among families that are religious. 

Tom, I appreciate your underscoring these facts.

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2 hours ago, César Chávez said:

when you deal with me

I did not deal with you!  I do not presume to deal with you. I have no wish to "deal" with you.  You do not know me and please do not presume to know me.  I merely made a comment (which I added to yours) and drew tremendous ire.  It was NOT a criticism of you. However, it seems you also have an ego problem.......  You have to have your pound of flesh!

2 hours ago, César Chávez said:

r themselves your disdain for me. 

I have never had any distain for you - in fact I have been the one to commend you more than anyone here because I agree with you mostly. But when you target me I have the right to stand up for myself.

 

2 hours ago, César Chávez said:

you hate the FACT I challenge apostate views, especially, the ones coming from witnesses.

I LIKE the fact that you challenge apostates because my ability to research is limited at present. I listen to most of my podcasts. So you have issues  with me - I am sorry for that but definitely not devastated. I have NEVER had any issue with you and still do not.  The hostility is coming from your side not mine.

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1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

1. Almighty God allows those governments to be there and HE has had it put in scripture that people should obey those 'Superior Authorities'.  So, as it does not disobey God then those Superior Authorities should be obeyed. 

2. It does no good at all to be concerned with their sins. If they are finding real problems in any religion, then those religions should admit the problems are there and be totally honest about dealing with them. That includes paying compensation if the law of the land demands it. 

The ARC didn't 'pick on' the JW Org. The JW Org was just one religion investigated.  Most other religions and other organisations joined the scheme to pay compensation. The JW Org did not. 

Let's take the first one John. Almighty God allows governments to exercise their authority. He does NOT authorize them to be evil, or to have evil intents. Remember, Babylon, and all those governments. How about the Roman government that evil men used to execute God's son. If God was a vengeful God by intervening with those established governments, he would have destroyed, Rome from existence just like he did with Sodom and Gomorrah for their sin.

Now, the second point you raise. How can you excuse the sins of those institutions that hide their own atrocities while condemning others? That's simply partisanship and cannot be the norm. Therefore, there has to be a better argument for this inconsistency.

The ARC didn't pick on the Org. But that wasn't my point was it. My point is, how can the ARC condemn those institutions it investigated, but attempted to HIDE the same problem's, government run detention centers were going through. That means, they have NO MORAL standing to make that judgment.

It wasn't until they were "exposed" that they made a subtle attempt to investigate. The problem there, they are brushing it under the carpet, dragging their feet, while they vigorously pursue the rest. Come on! John, as an advocate of CSA, you, yourself would have to condemn such practice.

The simplest thing the ARC could have done is what Bro Jackson recommended in the inquiry. Why did the AU Parliament refuse?

 

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