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They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)


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43 minutes ago, xero said:

He presents a false dilemma.

No, he presented doctrine of "light" that will shine more and more with every day, year and decade :))))

....and WTJWorg introduced that theory of "new light" years after, ....and advanced it to such an extent that it brought it to the status of a doctrine. The doctrines, according to which it is possible to declare previous false teachings as a "divinely guided" way of reaching the " increasing new light", without declaring the "old light"  to be a lie.

By the way, Bible has not words such "New Light". So, words that are not in the Bible, not supports doctrine like this :))) 

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Just to introduce another item into this consideration. It seems that the number 12 or its multiples in the Bible always appears as literal, never symbolic. Jacob's 12 sons (males) were exactly 12   The 12 tribes of Israel were actually 12, not 13   The Levitical priesthood was organized in a multiple of 12, namely 24 divisions (1Chr 24: 1-19)   The recruitment of assistants and officers who served David were organized in groups of 24,000 per month

It would also resolve the issue of there having been more than a million partakers who faced death for their Christian faith rather than give a pinch of incense to the Roman emperor, or contaminate their conscience with other forms of idolatry or blood. It's either that or explicitly allow for the idea that an earthly hope had been opened up generally to Christians before 1935.

This is correct. Russell never took the place of Christ before his Church. Christ was the Head of the Body, and Russell would never consider himself the "Head" of the Body of Christ. This doesn't mean that Russell would ever have admitted that any other person could be God's "mouthpiece." Russell only said this about himself, and no one else. Also Russell printed letters that addressed himself as "the faithful and wise servant." He printed no letters that identified anyone else as that "faithful

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1 hour ago, Anna said:

The role of the elders is to help shepherd the sheep and protect the flock, not to judge who will gain everlasting life and who will not. If someone is disfellowshipped it is on account of known unrepentant wrong doing and according to the scriptures.

According to Scripture? Perhaps than,  JW Judicial Committee need to be public in front congregants and other people. Role model is written in OT. Perhaps Moses Law is fulfilled in Legality and Legalism for Christians. But still, GB calls and promote OT Principles not just or only from NT. If so, please Public Hearings and Court Decisions guided by JW elders. Even secular Court in Valencia have this method.

 

Valencia tribunal01_0.jpg

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1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

No, he presented doctrine of "light" that will shine more and more with every day, year and decade :))))

....and WTJWorg introduced that theory of "new light" years after, ....and advanced it to such an extent that it brought it to the status of a doctrine. The doctrines, according to which it is possible to declare previous false teachings as a "divinely guided" way of reaching the " increasing new light", without declaring the "old light"  to be a lie.

By the way, Bible has not words such "New Light". So, words that are not in the Bible, not supports doctrine like this :))) 

He was just another guy who Jehovah used to Jehovah's ends. What he thought then about anything was and is immaterial. Now if you have some scriptural point to make on topic (that God uses or doesn't use an organization), then make it.

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Let's cut to the chase. Opposers can go pound sand.  Opposers wouldn't know squat about the Bible if there wasn't an organization to superintend its preservation and transmission to the present. Opposers wouldn't have known enough to bother with learning about the Bible were it not for organizations existing to push doctrine. Opposers can't exist without an organization to oppose. So nothing is useful about opposers. These exist as parasites feeding off the real or imagined deficiencies of organizations.

For them to become useful is to become yet ANOTHER organization from whom will rise yet more opposers.

But opposers are ultimately cowards and lazy as it's easy to complain and point out real or imagined deficiencies, but these either can't or won't do anything to do better.

We used to play a game called "smear the queer" (in the UK it's called British Bulldog) at lunch and only the cowardly kids would refuse to play by taking the ball and running w/it. Opposers are like that.

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8 minutes ago, xero said:

Now if you have some scriptural point to make on topic (that God uses or doesn't use an organization), then make it.

Give me a minute please. ..... In the past He had contacts with individuals, families, tribes, the people of the Jews. I don’t remember any biblical account that he used something that/like we call “organization” today. Of course, an individual can be organized. The family can be organized. The people can be organized.
In conclusion, I can say that God can use anything he wants to do his will. Does God use "the organization" to which the JWs belong from 1879/1935?

How about a counter-question? Does God use secular organizations?

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12 minutes ago, xero said:

Let's cut to the chase. Opposers can go pound sand.  Opposers wouldn't know squat about the Bible if there wasn't an organization to superintend its preservation and transmission to the present. Opposers wouldn't have known enough to bother with learning about the Bible were it not for organizations existing to push doctrine. Opposers can't exist without an organization to oppose. So nothing is useful about opposers. These exist as parasites feeding off the real or imagined deficiencies of organizations.

So, the whole "world started spinning" in 1879 with the founding of WT? :)))

17 minutes ago, xero said:

We used to play a game called "smear the queer" (in the UK it's called British Bulldog) at lunch and only the cowardly kids would refuse to play by taking the ball and running w/it. Opposers are like that.

... internet source about game:

Play starts when object is thrown into the air. Players may either snatch object out of the air or wait until it 

    Hello guest!
. If the object lands, the person closest to it MUST 
    Hello guest!
. (Group will use judgement, or someone who wants it can just pick it up.) Once a player is in posession of the object, they try not to get tackled. Once tackled, the object is thrown into the air (or at a particular person) and the game starts over. Play usually ends when everyone is tired or when someone gets hurt.

Play usually ends when everyone is tired or when someone gets hurt.

Good lesson! Good message! :))

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9 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Give me a minute please. ..... In the past He had contacts with individuals, families, tribes, the people of the Jews. I don’t remember any biblical account that he used something that/like we call “organization” today. Of course, an individual can be organized. The family can be organized. The people can be organized.
In conclusion, I can say that God can use anything he wants to do his will. Does God use "the organization" to which the JWs belong from 1879/1935?

How about a counter-question? Does God use secular organizations?

Last question answered 1st. Yes God uses secular organizations. He also uses religious organizations and families were designed by Jehovah as the base of organization. The questions YOU and we all need to answer are:

Is God using this/or that organization, like I might use a stick to get some crap off my nikes after a trail run, after which I have no use for the stick?

Does this organization assent that it is being used by Jehovah?

Does this organization have Jehovah's approval?

An organization or even a person can be USED by Jehovah AND that person may be approved by Jehovah or disapproved by him. Jehovah can use a person/organization like a Judo master might use the weight of his opponent against him.

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11 minutes ago, xero said:

The questions YOU and we all need to answer are:

Is God using this/or that organization, like I might use a stick to get some crap off my nikes after a trail run, after which I have no use for the stick?

Does this organization assent that it is being used by Jehovah?

Does this organization have Jehovah's approval?

1) Is God using this/or that organization, like I might use a stick to get some crap off my nikes after a trail run, after which I have no use for the stick?

Weird idea? Shows that God is monster.

2) Does this organization assent that it is being used by Jehovah?

If God somehow created "the organization" aka WTJWorg, what do you mean with this question? "Clay" is not asked what it (clay) wants to be.

3) Does this organization have Jehovah's approval?

You ask wrong person. Ask God for that answer.

 

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41 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

1) Is God using this/or that organization, like I might use a stick to get some crap off my nikes after a trail run, after which I have no use for the stick?

Weird idea? Shows that God is monster.

2) Does this organization assent that it is being used by Jehovah?

If God somehow created "the organization" aka WTJWorg, what do you mean with this question? "Clay" is not asked what it (clay) wants to be.

3) Does this organization have Jehovah's approval?

You ask wrong person. Ask God for that answer.

 

Wrong answer. It means you don't know your bible.

    Hello guest!
 He [JEHOVAH] changes times and seasons,
    Hello guest!
Removes kings and sets up kings,
    Hello guest!
Gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those with discernment.
    Hello guest!
- Daniel 2:21

    Hello guest!
 This is by the decree of watchers,
    Hello guest!
and the request is by the word of the holy ones, so that people living may know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind
    Hello guest!
and that he gives it to whomever he wants, and he sets up over it even the lowliest of men
.” - Daniel 4:17

    Hello guest!
 So Pilate said to him: “Are you refusing to speak to me? Do you not know that I have authority to release you and I have authority to execute you?”
    Hello guest!
    Hello guest!
 Jesus answered him: “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been granted to you from above. This is why the man who handed me over to you has greater sin.” - John 19:10-11

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4 hours ago, Anna said:

You are getting confused. The role of the elders is to help shepherd the sheep and protect the flock, not to judge who will gain everlasting life and who will not. If someone is disfellowshipped it is on account of known unrepentant wrong doing and according to the scriptures.

People leave the organization because of its sins.  Where do the scriptures validate their disfellowshipping? They certainly do not need to repent for leaving a sin-filled organization.  They should repent for their time spent there. ( James 4:4) Remember also , what has been said by the organization concerning disfellowshipping? 

Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God’s law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship. However, God’s law requires us to recognize their being disfellowshiped from his congregation, and this despite the fact that the law of the land in which we live requires us under some natural obligation to live with and have dealings with such apostates under the same roof. w52 11/15 p. 703

Disfellowshipping is a spiritual killing.  The person who wrote this and the leadership who approved of this, condone the heartfelt act of killing, which is judgment made by men.  They believe they have the power given by God to judge another as deserving or not, of eternal life.  Rev 13:15

The proof is how JWs treat disfellowshipped people, all those disfellowshipped whether they have committed a sin or not.  Yet, even if their heart is repentant for sinning, they may wait for months to be reinstated at the approval of men. 

As Jesus said to the Pharisees who wanted the woman stoned for adultery, “Whoever hasn’t sinned should throw the first stone.”  John 8:7

 

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29 minutes ago, xero said:

Wrong answer. It means you don't know your bible.

    Hello guest!
 He [JEHOVAH] changes times and seasons,
    Hello guest!
Removes kings and sets up kings,
    Hello guest!
Gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those with discernment.
    Hello guest!
- Daniel 2:21

    Hello guest!
 This is by the decree of watchers,
    Hello guest!
and the request is by the word of the holy ones, so that people living may know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind
    Hello guest!
and that he gives it to whomever he wants, and he sets up over it even the lowliest of men
.” - Daniel 4:17

    Hello guest!
 So Pilate said to him: “Are you refusing to speak to me? Do you not know that I have authority to release you and I have authority to execute you?”
    Hello guest!
    Hello guest!
 Jesus answered him: “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been granted to you from above. This is why the man who handed me over to you has greater sin.” - John 19:10-11

So, this outwitting continues, it seems.

Two quotes from Daniel have their context. Is Babylon a forerunner of WTJWorg?
Should the quote from John mean that WTJWorg gets power from Satan?

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