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Conscience individual and collective


xero

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8 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Spoken like a true Ex Elder xero.  Keep trying and you may convince yourself that you are right. 

My conscience was functioning very well when I 'resigned' from JW Org. The 'light of scripture' tells me that the Watchtower / GB / JW Org, are all serving the Devil right now.  I say serving the Devil because the Org teaches that no one can sit on the fence. An Elder keeps phoning my wife and telling her that. So, as the GB / Orgs are not serving God properly, they must be serving the Devil.

I don't reject any Bible book, I just know that most of the Hebrew is history that was important to the Jews, but Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 C.E. and that proved God's rejection of the Nation of Israel, and Christians live by Christ's teachings and the writings of the Apostles which were inspired by God's Holy spirit. 

You keep PRETENDING that organisation is the same as AN Organisation.  People can be organised without being AN Organisation.  You do know that RUSSELL, the very man that started the Watchtower, said people do NOT need and Organiton. 

I think the Pope says that God delegates authority to him. :) Your GB also pretend that God delegates authority to them. :) .   Saying it does not prove it to be true. 

You love to 'tell me' that i can't go it alone. But in scripture many people have been lone humans. Some of the prophets had to go it alone and had to run for their lives when their whole nation was against them. 

I am wise enough not to permanently close any doors. But right now NO Organisation is serving God properly and i will not deliberately insult Almighty God by being part of a wicked Organisation that pretend to serve God. 

 

BTW, What's the point of resigning from an organization unless you recognize its authority? If it has no authority, you shouldn't have bothered resigning, you should simply have gone about your life as you see fit. Unless you were trying to evangelize others to a different opinion on the way out, though it's hard to see how that's particularly motivating. Unless, of course you published your manifesto online as to your reasons for doing so. Anyway, just thinking about all this. I never understood why people engaged in formally resigning unless this is just an odd sort of passive-aggressive cry for help. I've known three couples who bailed and they said nothing. No notes, no letters, just poof! Gone. People could surmise and guess, but each and every one of these apparently prepared in advance to move physically. Now that's something to respect. They made sure they were in a witness protection plan. :)

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22 hours ago, xero said:

4Jah - You're clearly confusing your emotions w/a functioning conscience. Don't burn incense to your inner light. You don't know if the light that in you is darkness or light unless you subject it to the true light of scripture. The true light of scripture makes it clear (unless you reject Hebrews among other books) that God has and uses organization, that he delegates authority to humans in these organizations and that one must be submissive and obedient to those taking the lead. It doesn't say you'll like it. In fact the scriptures suggest the opposite. Discipline isn't fun, but it's useful.

Your job is to determine which organization you are going to be submissive to. You can't go it alone. Not scripturally.

Right.  In this corrupted world, God would choose elements based on the expertise of men, to shed "light" on the scriptures.  Men would organize themselves, choose who would be the leaders and those who must submit to their "expertise" and supposed knowledge of His Word.  

This isn't the organization concept from God, it is submitting oneself to the "world".  Men will then say, 'our organization is the dwelling place of God'.  This is blasphemy.  

Earthly organizations are created mountains.  They come with rules and regulations on how to worship God. These rules are at the whim of men.  If they they are not followed, this mountain can consume the "sheep".  

Jesus referred to two mountains in John 4, where worship was established -  Jerusalem, and the Samaritan temple.  Those mountains were corrupted by corrupt leaders.  God removed His Spirit from Jerusalem when Jesus died. 

There is only one organization that is acceptable to God, and it isn't fabricated by men.  You are misunderstanding the concept of church, congregation, and the Body of Christ.  While you reign over and discipline the anointed in the organization, you have failed to see that they are the dwelling of God - His Temple. (1 Cor 3:16,17)  Can you comprehend  that the Wt has consumed the sheep of Jesus Christ, through a man-made organization?  Rev 13:5-10

You are expecting the members of Jesus' body to be submissive to a discipline created by men.  THEY, the anointed, are the "organization" outlined by God.  Within their heart are the "rules and regulations" that God put there. (Heb 8:10) Yet, men are superior with their book of "light" that always needs updating.   8 million JWs have no understanding of the true spiritual organization built on the anointed Body of Christ.  Who would blind them of this truth, Jesus or Satan?  (Col 2:8; Rev 12:1-4,7,13-15)

 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else.

“Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”  Acts 24,25,29-31

"human design and skill", is how an earthly organization is is born.

As I just asked a JW, once a ministerial servant ,who now realizes now that no earthly organization is the "way" to truth...

"One has to ask, what is more important today, this spiritual Temple, or the organization?  Who is called on to teach the word of God, the anointed priesthood (Mal 2:7), or elders not part of God’s Temple, but are the backbone of an earthly organization?

I'm sorry you are so blind.  

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Witness, no one in their right mind is going to get together with a handful of people online or in someone's garage and imagine that what they are doing there has anything to do with preaching the good news of God's Kingdom to the remotest part of the earth. That requires organization, a world wide organization.

Hanging out w/a tiny group of people just feels creepy and weird. I'd imagine the next step in that group would be for the cyanide koolaide to come out at some point.

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5 hours ago, xero said:

Witness, no one in their right mind is going to get together with a handful of people online or in someone's garage and imagine that what they are doing there has anything to do with preaching the good news of God's Kingdom to the remotest part of the earth. That requires organization, a world wide organization.

What is meant by Jesus’ words in John 4:21-24?

What mountain will rise and draw people to it, in the last days?  Isa 2:2,3

What “mountain” is destroyed in Zech 4:7-14, when the last “living stone” of the Temple/mountain of God is in place? 

What “mountain” is destroyed in Rev 8:8? It is an established earthly “mountain-like” organization.  I can only think of one organization that calls itself the “mountain-like” “spirit-directed” organization – the one you expect people to submit to.

5 hours ago, xero said:

Hanging out w/a tiny group of people just feels creepy and weird. I'd imagine the next step in that group would be for the cyanide koolaide to come out at some point.

As far as “cyanide” affecting a tiny group of people, this warning was given to God’s saints:

"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping."  2 Pet 2:1-3

How is this accomplished?  How can truth, the living waters of Jesus Christ, be brought into disrepute?  (John 7:38)

”See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.  Heb 12:15

Wouldn’t you know... wormwood is a bitter root; and knowing that “stars” are represented by anointed ones, (Gen 26:4; Dan 12:3; Luke 11:33; 2 Pet 1:19; Rev 1:20)…

...who is Wormwood in Rev 8:10,11?  Interestingly, this account of a fallen star being called “Wormwood” is noted in the same chapter as the “mountain” being destroyed.

God allows this or has allowed Satan to deceive, when His people have sinned through idolatry and the acceptance of false teachings.  (Luke 22:39)

“Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts concerning the prophets:

‘Behold, I will feed them with wormwood,
And make them drink the water of gall;
For from the prophets of Jerusalem
Profaneness has gone out into all the land.’  Jer 23:15

 

What is more important to you, knowing the truth from Jesus Christ, or accepting the discipline administered by men which an organization provides?

 

Wormwood, False Prophets, Armageddon

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4 hours ago, Witness said:

and imagine that what they are doing there has anything to do with preaching the good news of God's Kingdom to the remotest part of the earth.

They are preaching the good news of the redemption and  restoration of "Jacob"/"Israel", in the same manner that JWs are preaching presently.  I doubt the GB will now say, stay away from the internet -  from social forums - when they have made the choice to reach the remotest parts of the earth, via internet.  

"And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed in the whole inhabited earth (God's "land" - Ps 132:7; Isa 66:1; 1 Cor 3:9)   for a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come."  Matt 24:14

"When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes."  Matt 10:23

Not the nation of Israel, but the spiritual nation of "Israel" today.  They are, God's "inhabited earth".  (1 Pet 2:5,9,10)

"Leave Babylon, flee from the Chaldeans! Declare with a shout of joy, proclaim this, let it go out to the end of the earth; announce, "The LORD has redeemed his servant Jacob!"  Isa 48:20

Then I heard another voice from heaven say:

“‘Come out of her, my people,’[b] - Jer 51:45
    so that you will not share in her sins,
    so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
5 for her sins are piled up to heaven,
    and God has remembered her crimes.
6 Give back to her as she has given;
    pay her back double for what she has done.
    Pour her a double portion from her own cup.
7 Give her as much torment and grief
    as the glory and luxury she gave herself.
In her heart she boasts,
    ‘I sit enthroned as queen.
I am not a widow;
    I will never mourn.’
8 Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her:
    death, mourning and famine.
She will be consumed by fire,
    for mighty is the Lord God who judges her."  Rev 18:4-8

Jer 51:45 - “Come out of her, my people!
    Run for your lives!
    Run from the fierce anger of the Lord."

 

 

 

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