Conscience individual and collective

[Srecko Sostar]

5 hours ago, xero said:

Truth, like the quality of goodness inhere fully in and are defined by and perceived by and illuminated by Jehovah as he is the source.

 

5 hours ago, xero said:

These believe that there are personal and private truths which remain forever unverifiable save for the individual perceptions of the ones who possess the same.

We can and should discover the truth about ourselves all our lives. And it is a process that exists, no matter how much we participate in it or not. The more we participate in it, through various small and big events, the different truths become recognizable. These truths to a greater or lesser extent, sometimes imperceptibly and sometimes drastically, correct or redirect our life path and choices.

You put great importance on YHVH illuminating “personal truths” and "collective truths". ”You say; YHVH defines truth. It is possible so. But how did He define truth when he did not give Adam and Eve      “knowledge to discern good from evil”? Can the truth be defined without knowledge?

But let's leave the situation in Eden in the past, because since leaving Eden people have legally acquired ability to recognize good and evil, and in that knowledge they should continue to gain experience and knowledge at the same time.

Later some written instructions on what is good and what is not good came in. But some things remained unsaid and left to man to judge and choose. Also, some things in the past were regulated by prohibition, and even unregulated, so without prohibition. Today they got a new and different “illumination.” By that, and the truth from the past, it got a new face. To the least, the former truth is not the truth of today’s man, whether it is JW or non-JW.

6 hours ago, xero said:

There are adiaphoric cases

Perhaps Polygamy? Slavery? Well, there are some past individual and collective truths about that, right?

These things are not called "the truth" today. Maybe, they are called as just written past/history ?

6 hours ago, xero said:

Yet, those who did their best to go with Jehovah's representatives fared best overall)

Has it always been the best? Incorrect statement. There were few true representatives even in the Bible, let alone outside the Bible.

 

[TrueTomHarley]

8 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

And once again your jealousy of the True Anointed shows through.

It will show through when I begin offering True Anointed sweatshirts on my website.

It is a phrase completely of your own devising. Even your fellow yo-yos have not used it. The more you repeat it, with your expectations of how it comes along just in the nick of time to save the day, the more ridiculous it sounds. 

Don’t get me going on this. Already I can picture a fellow lounging on the beach, relaxing, enjoying himself through and through, not doing a thing, with the logo: “Chill, man, I’m waiting for the True Anointed.”

I have never heard anyone use the expression but you.

[Witness]

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It is a phrase completely of your own devising.

To defend @4Jah2me's statement about True Anointed ones, I personally don’t believe every man on the GB are genuinely anointed.

Why don’t you spend some time, if you haven’t already, and listen to Stephen Lett’s wisdom on his video about anointing.  He has no clue what an anointing is. And I believe there are a few more on that body just like him

But, after listening to his speech of lies, you might (or might not) want to read this comment from a genuine anointed one:

 

Wow, the very first two things he says in the first sentence, are false. No scripture says that you must be water baptized by men, before God can anoint you with his spirit. In fact, Acts10 reads; "44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days." Gentiles were anointed, previous to their water baptism.

 Secondly... Lett states that one must establish oneself as having a faithful course in the eyes of men, previous to their anointing by God. I assume that this "faithful course" is defined by the organization and includes their own standards of behavior (meeting attendance, service hours, proper dress, etc.). Again the scriptures disprove this fallacy. Did Paul establish himself as an exemplary Christian (according to the "watchtower's" criteria), while he traveled from town to town, hunting down and trying to eradicate the sect? Yet while in that spiritual state of mind, Jesus Christ himself chose Paul... not only to be among the 144K, but to be an apostle. Lett's assertions do two things... *insult the power of God to read a heart, and *bestows authority on the organization to interject their own standards into something that is none of their business. They don't get to tell God who He can adopt, and when. Outrageous arrogance!

 There is also no scriptural indication, that the "heavenly calling" is exclusively heavenly, as Lett asserts. For goodness sake... Rev.21:3-4 tells us plainly, that New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven. It states that God's dwelling [his temple made up of the anointed (1Pet.2:5; 1Cor.3:16)] is WITH MANKIND. How can you be an heir of the earth (Gal.3:29; Gen.28:4,13-14), but not be allowed to set foot on it? Lett is locked in a dark closet indeed.

Wow, next, he twists the meaning of 1John2:20. The interlinear Greek makes plain, that in context with verses21 and 27, ...the "knowledge" is a growth in divine truths... Not an awareness that one is anointed. This guy can't open his mouth, without fulfilling Rev.13:11! Wasn't there recently a video about how shameful and taboo it is to inquire about the anointing experience? These guys need to make up their minds.

Great... now I hear him ripping off from things I have written. What's wrong? Are your lamps going out and you need to borrow some oil? So I get Df'd for speaking the truth, but they can take what I got thrown out for, and use it in their talk? Another 12 minutes of video to go. I can't stomach much more. I now have strong personal doubt that Stephen Lett is a genuine anointed.

He makes no mention of the experience of being anointed. While mentioning how powerful God's spirit witness is, he doesn't even touch upon that experience... which he certainly would if he really received it.

The priests and kings in Israel, when anointed, were certainly aware of the event. They could feel the oil being poured upon them. It wasn't something that occurred because they had already been water baptized, or because they were regular in service. The Bible makes clear what the heart feels during an anointing by God's holy spirit... something obviously foreign to Stephen Lett. 

 

 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

33 minutes ago, Witness said:

I personally don’t believe every man on the GB are genuinely anointed.

The point is that all you have to do to be ‘anointed’ is to say that you are. 

1 Corinthians 14:33 has it all backwards in that event—if anyone can stand up, say “I’m anointed,” and thereby command authority.

“For God is [a God], not of disorder, but of peace.” Switch it around assuming teaching capacity over others is so easily done. “God is not a God of peace, but of disorder,” better fits this new scenario.

Do I know that he is anointed? No, of course not. But I don’t know that of anyone, least of all you, who so immodestly terms yourself a “genuine anointed.”

At least with him, I can see many decades of full-time service, making it unlikely, after such sacred service, that he would lie. But with you? I see a Facebook page, and three or four bitter diatribes per day at those who you accuse of upstaging you and your cohorts.

 

[Witness]

14 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Do I know that he is anointed? No, of course not. But I don’t know that of anyone, least of all you, who so immodestly terms yourself a “genuine anointed.”

Could you please tell me when I have elaborated on my anointing other than when you grilled me about it?  Can you target any time when I have exalted myself above my brothers and sisters in the organization?  Please, you've done this before and found that you had to take back your words.  

 

16 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

At least with him, I can see many decades of full-time service, making it unlikely, after such sacred service, that he would lie.

That means nothing.  Jesus told us how to detect an anointed sent by him.  Matt 7:15-19; John 15:15

Their "fruit"/teachings are good, never bad...and all of their teachings remain, never discarded.  

[Witness]

22 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I see a Facebook page, and three or four bitter diatribes per day at those who you accuse of upstaging you and your cohorts.

So, you're checking in 3-4 times a day?  What are you even doing there? You're quite the liar, Tom.  3-4 "diatribes" per day?  I'm glad if I get anything posted there once a week.  Surely you remember who calls apostates "despicable", don't you? 

Upstaging?  Your wicked slave has upstaged all anointed in the organization and you don't see it.  Your elder body has upstaged the anointed priesthood, and you don't see it.  

[Witness]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Do I know that he is anointed? No, of course not. But I don’t know that of anyone, least of all you, who so immodestly terms yourself a “genuine anointed.”

 

One more thing.  Decades of full-time service are enough to call oneself the “faithful and discreet slave” appointed over God’s household of saints.  Is this correct?  Sheesh.  If that’s all that matters to you, why don’t you just join the Mormon Church?  All of their leaders are “apostles” and there are 12 of them!

You know, in Freemasonry, dedicated service can lead to an "anointing".  And they wear pinky rings also.

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

At least with him, I can see many decades of full-time service, making it unlikely, after such sacred service, that he would lie.

Didn't he lie about the child abuse issue?  Yes, he would lie.  Look how easy it is for you to lie.

 

[Pudgy]

I think a "noint" is something like a "tuit".

Getting a nointing is something like getting a round tuit.

[Srecko Sostar]

10 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Why would God need to answer to humans?

Maybe because he gave, mind, ability to think and free will and freedom to choose, to people......and because of  Most truly I say to you, if you ask the Father for anything,+ he will give it to you in my name 

[TrueTomHarley]

6 hours ago, Pudgy said:

I think a "noint" is something like a "tuit".

Getting a nointing is something like getting a round tuit.

I have to admit I have never looked at it that way.

[xero]

"Xero, how do you know you're of the OS?"

Me - "I just know I am."

https://www.academia.edu/37032279/An_Educated_Conscience_Perception_and_Reason_in_Newman_s_Account_of_Conscience

Although this paper is discussing things from a catholic perspective, the analysis of the conscience is, I feel a useful exercise.

[Thinking]

On 3/30/2021 at 11:26 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

I couldn’t stand JTR when I first came across him. But as he yielded ever so slightly, and then substantially, before he crashed and burned over other issues, I came to like him.

In some ways, he was like you, only not hypocritical. He seems to have more or less behaved himself in whatever congregation he attended, but did not hide the fact that he had non-conforming views on many things. He acted ugly here, but less so than you. He certainly did not display abuse for individuals, as you routinely do. It is the overall organization he took issue with—bad, maybe, but not hypocritical.

I still miss him..I liked him...I would have loved working with him in a car group or on the doors...and he was NOT a proven apostate....and I’ll stick up for him because nobody knows his full story and no one here can read his heart ....Just for the record Billy I am an active witness and approved In Good standing and conducting Bible studies still....

At times I Unjoin this group because it doesn’t help me with my fruit ages of the spirit..so I cannot  respond impulsively......but when I’m mentioned I will respond.

How come Billy if you are a witnesses you are not in the closed group...please come there...and I agree..not everyone there would be a witness...but we can  not prove nor prove they are not...and I am very wary..which is a wise thing to be on line.

Sorry Tom this come up under you but I meant to answer Billy...