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  1. 5 points
    JW Insider

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    That's true, but it would not attract as much attention. Rutherford had been a political marketer before following Russell/WT/Bible Students. This is why he would ADV/ADV/ADV. And why gimmicks like putting David and Abraham on a property deed were important to him. This is why he used the title "Judge." But I think it was Covington who figured out that he could do much better in the courts if we agreed to be recognized as a religion. Religious rights were easier to fight for than unspecified rights or civil rights of a group who would otherwise be seen only as "peddlers." Tresspassing laws were decidedly against peddlers, but the United States was being recognized in the twentieth century as much more amenable to a variety of religions, and we weren't the only religion asking for (and getting) expanded rights.
  2. 4 points
    TrueTomHarley

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    Nobody but nobody has “apostates” like Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is almost as though I am proud of them. Every NT writer wrote about opposition and apostasy. If it happened then, it should happen now. What if there was no opposition today? Wouldn’t you have to wonder why? Since Witnesses do not seek to evade taxes, they pay into social & police services to a greater proportion than most groups. Since they put into practice Bible principles that improve lives, they draw upon those services to a much lesser degree. They are honest. They don’t resort to violence, either, in contrast to the majority who will when the cause is deemed right. It should be taken as more evidence that what Witnesses have is the truth. It would not be so determinedly opposed were that not the case. The opposition to them is hugely disproportional to their “offenses.”
  3. 4 points
    I guess the first point I could address is how someone with serious unresolved questions and concerns about a couple of our teachings could still participate in promoting our publications and our meetings to interested persons. Won't those persons be faced with unresolved questions too? This gets to the claim by some that 85 percent of what we present is not worth it, and 15 percent is worth it, but that 15 percent is valuable enough to ignore the 85 percent. If those were the real numbers then making a convert would be very hard to justify. And in any case we would always have to spend a lot of time telling our Bible students that there are a lot of things we don't understand ourselves. But the numbers aren't that bad, because we really don't spend the amount of time on the areas where more people have unresolved questions. For example, let's just look at the two magazines that were common to many of the carts today. One is the Watchtower No.3 2019, and the other is the Awake! No.2 2019. The Awake! has the cover is "Six Lessons Children Need to Learn." There are short articles on Self-Control, Humility, Resilience, Responsibility, Adult Guidance, and the Need for Moral Values. I am critical of a lot of things, but I found every single word to be well written and useful. It makes a nicely presented way to discuss such important topics with children. Or it just makes it simple to keep a prioritized list of ideas in a parent's mind to remember as they come up. And all of it leads to the fact that Bible principles are the foundation of these lessons, even if might seem at first like mundane lessons about the amount of time spent on entertainment media. So on to the Watchtower. The basic questions that religion should answer are the same questions that people ask all over the world. They are the questions that don't really overlap with science, and although they might overlap a bit with "philosophy" it's really the place of true religion to show why the Bible's view gives the best and most satisfying answers. These are the questions of "What is the meaning of life?" "Is God to blame for suffering?" "What happens when we die?" Those are the same questions called "Life's Big Questions" on the back of the Awake! So the Watchtower starts out with an article on "The Sad Reality of Death." Nothing questionable or inappropriate here. Science is mentioned as a possible source of answers, here, and in the next article "The Search For Long Life." The idea is clear and obvious, that "We are Designed to Live" just as the next article shows. Again, I see nothing that any naysayer, except atheists, might find wrong or questionable. In fact, up to this point, atheists might still be following along, too. After all, it does not overwhelm with scriptures, but uses them in unobtrusive ways. Now the question of "Why Do We Grow Old And Die" gets into the Biblical aspects, on page 8 of 15. It's all clearly the correct Biblical answer, however. Granted, some religious and science-oriented religious persons can take Adam & Eve as allegorical in some way, which is common. But even so, the rest of the Bible clearly uses the exact example as the explanation about death on earth. And therefore page 10 begins discussing the hope, when death is conquered. There is a very clear explanation of the Ransom here. Using Scriptures throughout this article. There is a paragraph or two on "When" but it is not done with the idea that "we know something about the date that no one else knows." Someone might wonder why it only mentions "millions" being resurrected, but this isn't said in such a way that we are telling people that it won't be billions, or thousands; it's just presented as a way of stating a happy hope in the resurrection. It mentions the "last days" but exactly the way the scriptures use the expression. In detailing "How Can You Have More Than This Life?" on page 12, the appeal is to those who want to see a better earth, and who would like to live forever under much better conditions. It's an invitation to learn more. And the next article shows how the road to that better life will produce side effects of contentment, more satisfying priorities, better marriages, and even better health (overall) in this life. I find BOTH of these entire magazines to be 100 percent valuable, well written, and they touch on no unresolved or unresolvable questions. And we all know that some of our talks and other publications cover this same material exactly as these articles do, sometimes with more examples, more verses, more detail -- but the same ideas. We are offering exactly what people should be looking for, satisfactory answers to important questions. When an interested person gets to all the meetings, they will soon discover that time is spent on the meaning of Ezekiel, for example, the history of the organization, and a lot of emphasis on urgency in preaching on account of the times we're living in, and the overall timing of Jehovah's purpose. Some of this material will likely result in questions that they will find ways to resolve, or else just accept and wait for a resolution in time. But it's not the gist of our preaching and disciple-making. I think most people who come into the organization will remember the Big Questions, and that those were the primary reasons they joined with us. Those questions are answered in a more appealing and satisfying way than other religions are answering them. And we back up our answers with the Bible. Our teachings regarding war, neutrality, Trinity, hellfire, paradise earth, the challenge to Jehovah's sovereignty, etc., will make even more sense to interested persons when they remember that the first attraction was to the way the Bible answered those big questions. Those were the questions that build a primary foundation around the teaching of God's Purpose, Eternal Life, the Ransom, the Resurrection, etc. So even if chronology and some of the specific prophetic interpretations can result in unresolved questions, for now, it's not like this needs to be such a big part of Witness thinking. We can participate in every major aspect of our worship with joy and without being overly concerned with these unresolved questions. And when they finally are resolved, I'm sure we'll see them as relatively unimportant compared to the big things.
  4. 3 points
    So as I am sure there are plenty of you folks here that adhere and read the wt and "awake". Have any of you who have read these considered the wt Oct study edition this year? In particular this little quote: "KEEP TRYING TO MAKE DISCIPLES 14. According to Jesus’ instructions recorded at Matthew 28:19, 20, what do we try our best to do, and why? 14 Read Matthew 28:19, 20. As we conduct Bible studies, we have to try our best to “make disciples . . . , teaching them to observe all the things [Jesus has] commanded.” We need to help people understand how important it is for them to take their stand for Jehovah and his Kingdom. This means trying to motivate people to make the truth their own by applying what they learn, dedicating their life to Jehovah, and getting baptized. Only then will they survive Jehovah’s day.—1 Pet. 3:21." So one must be baptized as a jw in order to survive Jehovahs day (judgement day). That is basically what is being said. What about this statement by the wt? "Millions of others will have the opportunity of gaining everlasting life when they are resurrected. Jesus performed a resurrection when he visited the city of Nain. The only son of a widow had died, and Jesus, “moved with pity,” raised him to life again. (Luke 7:11-15) Also, the apostle Paul said: “I have hope toward God . . . that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.” So which is it? What is the point of surviving the judgement day if you can achieve the same thing after the 1000 years?
  5. 3 points
    JW Insider

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    I know what you mean. Most of the time when a person puts up a post that goes to a different topic, it's not that serious and they don't intend to create an in-depth discussion of that new topic. But Anna quoted something from another website with enough material in it to make 100 posts the length of this one. For example, if I mention mad cow disease as an aside, I know that JTR, for example, just might be able to find a video about cows that are arming themselves with guns for some kind of revolution, or something. But I doubt that this means JTR wants to discuss either mad cow disease or the advisability of allowing four-legged creatures to have arms.
  6. 3 points
    Anna

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    I believe this scholars analysis of the situation is more accurate than the ones opposers like to pontificate about. Spiritual Resistance of Christian Conviction in Nazi Germany: The Case of the Jehovah's Witnesses By Yonan, Gabriele Journal of Church and State, Spring 1999 ------------------------------------------------- JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES AS MODERN-DAY REPRESENTATIVES OF THE CHILIASTIC TRADITION The root of the Greek word chiliasmus is "chilioi," which means "a thousand," and which in Christian terminology refers to the thousand-year reign of Jesus Christ during the Millennium. Based on the Revelation of John in the Bible (20:1-10) and influenced by Jewish apocalyptic thinking, many early Christians adopted a premillennial paradigm, expecting that Jesus, immediately before the end of the world, would set up a thousand-year kingdom of peace and righteousness. It would be the re-creation of Paradise on earth through the restoration of nature to its earliest, pristine state. The characteristics of premillennial chiliastic thinking are: • the eschatological idea of a united world; • the present age seen as a time of trial and tribulation prior to the thousand-year reign; and, • egalitarianism, or equality, in the coming world society. According to this chiliastic perspective, following the re-establishment of the original condition there will no longer be any differences of rank or order. The new earthly paradise will be marked by the absence of war, enmity, strife, need, suffering, and sickness. For this condition to become a reality, there must first be a "clean slate," a tabula rasa, made possible by the final battle of Armageddon.(n1) The despised but steadfast ones will be God's chosen people--the pariahs emerging as the true elite. The chiliastic ideas of the early Christians were in harmony with the expectations of the Jews, according to whom the drama of salvation would have to be enacted on the world stage to be seen and experienced by all humans. In history there have been variations in the chiliastic expectations, but they primarily have appeared in times of oppression of Christian minorities. Similar phenomena are known from other religions, like the early Shia movement in Islam. The chiliastic utopias have for the most part disappeared under the influence of the enlightenment and secularism. But some of their elements can be found in the utopian socio-revolutionary movements and in various religious movements of the nineteenth century. North America and Britain saw new Christian groups emerge which focused on the apocalyptic parts of the Bible and formed new chiliastic movements. Among these were the Apostolic Catholics (Henry Drummond, 1786-1860, and Edward Irving, 1792-1834); the Adventists (William Miller, 1782-1849, and Ellen G. White 1827-1915); and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, or Mormons (Joseph Smith, 18051844). One of the latest forming yet best known nineteenth-century chiliastic communities was the Earnest Bible Students, later to become known as the Jehovah's Witnesses, whose formation dates from the 1870s. Typical of the chiliastic expectations of Jehovah's Witnesses are a deterministic concept of history and a linear conception of time which will end with the destruction of the Antichrist and an apocalyptic victory highlighted by the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.(n2) WHO ARE THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES? Jehovah's Witnesses are an independent Christian denomination whose eschatological teaching points to the "Kingdom" of God. This kingdom is understood as God's government in heaven which, under the administration of Jesus Christ, will liberate mankind from all problems through his peaceful reign over the earth. This denomination can be described as chiliastic in that it is characterized by the expectation of Christ's thousand-year reign--his millennium. This Christian community, which began in America in the last third of the nineteenth century, sprang from the widespread belief in the closeness of Christ's return (parousia) and the establishment of a new Jerusalem. According to the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses, before the dawn of God's kingdom on earth the decisive battle of Armageddon will take place in which God himself will destroy the powers of wickedness. Around 1870, the American businessman Charles Taze, Russell (1852-1916) gathered around him a small group of people who were interested in studying the Bible. Under the name "Earnest Bible Students," they read the Bible with a special attention to its teaching about the last days. Beginning in 1879 the students published the magazine "Zion's Watch Tower" and only one year later the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society was established. Since 1909 this society has based its headquarters in Brooklyn, New York. In 1931 this group took the name "Jehovah's Witnesses." This use of the Hebrew name for God was based on the Old Testament passage found in Isaiah 43:10, 12. The name Jehovah appears about 7,000 times in the Hebrew books of the Bible in the form of the tetragram (meaning "four characters") JHVH. Jehovah's Witnesses see themselves as part of the biblical tradition of witnesses, especially that of the New Testament, and point to certain scriptures that exemplify the words of Jesus Christ to Pontius Pilate: "To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth" (John 18:37). In Germany the Jehovah's Witnesses have been active since 1896, and were known until 1931 as "Ernste Bibelforscher" (Earnest Bible Students). Their religion now numbers approximately 192,000 members in Germany in more than 2,000 local congregations. Worldwide there are now over five million members in virtually every country in the world. Their most important channel of communication is The Watchtower magazine with a printing of more than 22 million copies per issue. In 1996 their annual commemoration of the death of Jesus Christ was attended by more than 14 million people globally. RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION IN HISTORY If there was one Christian group which rejected the Hitler-led German National Socialist State without compromise, it was the Jehovah's Witnesses. With around 25,000 members in Germany in 1933, the Jehovah's Witnesses were banned in that year but approximately half of its membership continued their "preaching work" underground. Jehovah's Witnesses refused to say "Heil Hitler," refused to participate in the processions, refused to sing the national anthem and the Horst Wessel Lied, and above all refused military service, oath to the flag, and all activities connected with the military establishment. For this they were bitterly persecuted from the very beginning of the National Socialist regime. Approximately ten thousand Jehovah's Witnesses were incarcerated. This small Christian group attempted through large-scale leaflet campaigns in 1936 and 1937 to open the eyes of the German people to the criminal character of the Nazi state and thus defend their religious interests against the unjust regime. Their religious resistance resulted, however, in the deaths of 1,200 congregation members. The persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses in the Third Reich belongs to the tradition of religious persecution in history. To that same tradition belong the early persecutions of Christians in the polytheistic Roman Empire and in Persia under the Sasanides who established Zoroastrianism as their state religion. Later came persecutions of Christians who were against the doctrines of the early councils of the imperial church (Arians, Nestorians, Monophysites). Later came the persecution of Jews in Europe in the late middle ages and their expulsion from Spain in the fifteenth century during the time of the Spanish Inquisition. Various sects of Christianity experienced persecution before and after the time of the German Reformation, including the Bogomiles, Waldensians, Albigensians, Baptists, Unitarians, Mennonites, Quakers, and Methodists. Many of these groups emigrated to the New World to obtain religious freedom beginning in the seventeenth century. RECAPITULATION: THE WITNESSES' RESISTANCE During the Nazi reign, Jehovah's Witnesses as a group were virtually unanimous in their resistance to Nazism. "Of the more than 20,000 Jehovah's Witnesses [in Germany] in the year 1933," noted one scholar, "almost one out of two was arrested. A total of 6,019 were put in prisons or concentration camps, and 8,917 cases of imprisonment were recorded. Two thousand men and women were put into concentration camps, 253 were sentenced to death, and 203 of these were actually executed."(n3) The exemplary position of Jehovah's Witnesses has been acknowledged and honored by important church representatives in Germany and other countries. Hanns Lilje, bishop of the Evangelical-Lutheran Church for the state of Hannover, wrote soon after the war in his book of memoirs that "no Christian group could anywhere near measure up to the number of blood witnesses of Jehovah's Witnesses."(n4) The Protestant theologian Kurt Hutten, who revitalized the "Apologetic Centre of the Protestant Church in Germany" under the new name "Evangelische Zentrale fur Weltanschauungsfragen" in Stuttgart, recorded the plight of Jehovah's Witnesses in Germany in his book Seher, Grubler, Enthusiasten: In the Nazi state Jehovah's Witnesses were already in 1933 banned and cruelly persecuted. In numerous court cases they were given heavy sentences. Thousands of them were in prison because they had continued their activity, had refused military service and for other reasons. Testimonies from former concentration camp prisoners confirm their uncompromising determination and courageous attitude; when given the tempting offer of freedom in exchange for a denial of their principles they refused and accepted all consequences. Around 1,000 were executed, and another 1,000 died in prisons or concentration camps; members of the Jehovah's Witnesses were sentenced to more than 20,000 years in prison.(n5) And in 1989 the Canadian jurist William Kaplan from the University of Ottawa offered this opinion: "The courage of the Jehovah's Witnesses, who endured repression and fought for what they believed, is a testament to the human spirit."(n6) FAILURE OF THE LARGER CHURCHES DURING THE NAZI REGIME Shortly after the end of the war the German Protestant Church made a public declaration, the so-called Nurnberger "Schuldbekenntnis" in 1945, of its failures during the period of National Socialism. This confession included the tacit acceptance and condonement of the persecutions, especially of the Jews, which resulted in the most massive genocide in history, and in the enormous destruction to which Hitler had subjected the world. These atrocities resulted in 45 million dead and utter devastation throughout Europe. Protestantism and Catholicism had accommodated the Nazi regime from two very different standpoints. Protestantism had influenced Germany principally through the imperial government and Bismarck's Prussia. Since the Weimar Republic had introduced a secularization process--the recognition of other denominations as equals and rejection of the concept of sects (1919)--it was met with disapproval by elements within the church. The Protestant church was hoping for a restoration of its own privileges through a new political and national power. Many Protestant clergymen saw in Hitler a "great man sent by God"--a man who would introduce the birth of a new Protestant Germany. The Catholic Church had suffered further losses of power in Germany after Bismarck's defeat of their political party, the Zentrum-spartei. For this reason the Catholic party supported the emergence of the Weimar Republic after the first World War. Before 1933 the Catholic Church had disapproved of the National Socialists. Catholics were forbidden to join the Nazi party, and the ideology based on the supremacy of the Aryan race was condemned by the church. But very soon after Hitler seized power on 30 January 1933, the church changed its course. On 24 March 1933, the Catholic bishops wrote an encyclical in which they encouraged all German Catholics to be loyal to all "proper authorities," fulfill their duties as citizens, and refrain from all illegal and seditious activity. German Catholics were now permitted to wear military uniforms while attending religious services. Church representatives celebrated this as "the time of fulfillment" and called for happy and wholehearted readiness in cooperation with the new totalitarian state. Soon after this, on 20 July 1933, Hitler's Reichsregierung and the Vatican concluded their concordat, an agreement of special protection which guaranteed the rights of the Catholic Church to operate its own schools, religious orders, and other institutions in Germany. In exchange for this the church was obliged to make its political party, das Zentrum, vote for the Special Powers Act of March 1933. On 28 March 1933, bishops of the Catholic Church openly spoke for Hitler and the leadership of his NSDAP party and encouraged "loyalty towards the rightful authority." After the conclusion of the concordat, the Catholic Cardinal von Faulhaber wrote to Hitler: "This handshake with the Papacy [is] a great deed of immeasurable blessing .... May God protect our Reichskanzler for our people"(n7) The Catholic Church believed it could secure its existence by setting up an arrangement with the new people in power. This was a mistake, since Hitler had no intention of keeping any agreements. What the German Protestant Church did was even worse. The church held its national synod on 27 September 1933, in which Rev. Ludwig Muller was appointed national bishop. His speech reflected his adoption of the totalitarian ideology of Hitler: [A]s he has done to every people, so the eternal God has also to our people given its own particular innate law. This has materialized in the Fuhrer Adolf Hitler .... This law speaks to us through the history of our people as it has grown from blood and ground .... From this fellowship of German Christians in the national socialist state of Adolf Hitler shall grow the German Christian National Church which will include the entire people. One people! One God! One Reich! One church!(n8) The expulsion of Protestant Christians of "foreign blood" (Christianized Jews) and the removal of "all un-German elements from church service and confession" stimulated the development of a church movement called "Deutsche Christen" (German Christians), which included approximately 600,000 members of the German Protestant Church and was widely supported. The Deutsche Christen, which had been active since the autumn of 1932 under the leadership of National Socialist clergymen, won 70 percent of the vote in the church elections of July 1933. When it became clear that even the concordat of the German Catholic Church did not engender the desired protection in the totalitarian Nazi state, a new papal encyclical in 1937 "with burning grief" ("Mit brennender Sorge") gave this admonition to the announced special courts of justice: With burning grief and growing concern we have observed for some time the sufferings of the church and the growing trials of the men and women in this land and people who have stayed loyal to her in both mind and deed. Those who separate the race, the people, the state, the formal government, the persons in power or other fundamental elements of human society-elements which rightfully claim an important and honourable position within the earthly arrangement-from the realm of such earthly values and elevate them to the highest norm of all, including religious values in worshiplike adoration, he or she distorts and falsifies the God-given and God-commanded arrangement of things.(n9) There are two places in which this encyclical criticizes the Nazi racist ideology. This is not, however, directed against the antisemitic campaigns and persecution of the Jews, but rather against the superiority of the Germanic race, which was not in harmony with the Christian understanding of the Holy Scriptures, especially the Old Testament. While the Jews or other victims were still not mentioned, the pope now criticized the Nazi racist ideology. The encyclical was read in all Catholic churches but it stimulated very little response among the German Catholic bishops. Only two bishops, Konrad Graf Preysing in Berlin and Clemens August Graf von Galen in Munster, called, in vain, for a more decisive church policy. THE CONFESSIONAL CHURCH--RESISTANCE FOR ITS OWN PURPOSES The "Bekennende Kirche" or Confessional Church, as an opposition movement within the German Protestant Church, issued a statement in May 1934 which served as a protest against state interference in the religious life of the nation: The decline of the confession and thus of the Protestant Church of Germany both in faith and unity must be resisted. The Confessional Synod will resist the attempts to bring about the unity of the German Protestant Church through false teaching and the use of force or unclean methods. The unity of the Protestant Church of Germany can only come about through the word of God in faith by holy spirit. We reject the false teaching that the State, over and above its proper mission, should be the only and total arranger of human life and thus also fulfill the role of the Church.(n10) On 20 October 1934, the Barmen Declaration was followed by the Dahlem Confessional Synod. There texts make it clear that their concern was first of all the dispute concerning the "Reichskirche," the unity of the church and the purity of its teaching. Here is found not a single word about the antisemitic attacks against Jews, the oppression of Jehovah's Witnesses, communists, socialists, or other persecuted groups, thousands of whom were already confined to prisons and concentration camps, and not a word about how many Jews were forcibly emigrated. A critical resistance was discovered only in a few courageous individuals of the church who could not count on support from their church leaders. A minority criticized the unification of the twenty-eight independent Protestant state churches in 1934 to make one "Reichskirche" under one "Reichsbischof." A small group, principally the members of the second preliminary leadership of the Confessional Church, ventured to go beyond this internal church dispute. The protest from within the Confessional Church should not be ignored but regarded objectively. Research into the resistance of the Confessional Church has demonstrated its diversity and uniqueness in resisting Nazism with both attitude and action.(n11) Those Protestant groups that belonged to the Confessional Church in 1935 contributed many sermons from the pulpit against the "race and people ideology," but the faithful were mainly admonished to obedience toward the secular authority. Only in a paper written by the "radical wing" of the Confessional Church, which was not endorsed by the Confessional Church as a whole, was there a condemnation of antisemitism, Gestapo actions, and the existence of concentration camps. There were protests against German neo-paganism and the ideology of a national religion, specifically the deification of Hitler. For this reason five hundred clergymen spent brief terms in prison. The scholar of antisemitism, Wolfgang Benz, provided the following opinion in his study Resistance Under National Socialism: "Neither when the Nuremberg laws in September 1935 deprived the German Jews of their civil rights, nor at the November pogrom in 1938 (Crystal Night, the 9th of November) did the churches as public institutions protest unitedly and forcefully.(n12) Altogether, during the entire time of the Nazi regime, only around 900 Protestant Christians (clergy as well as laity) were arrested and sentenced because of faith-based resistance. They spent time in prison and concentration camps, and twelve persons were executed for religious reasons. Prominent in this small group of Protestant Christians was the still active minister and theologian Martin Niemoller (1892-1984), a leading member of the Confessional Church. In the autumn of 1933, when the so-called "Aryan Paragraph" was introduced in the churches, he founded the "Pfarrernotbund," an organization to assist fellow clergymen, that came to the aid of 6,000 ministers that year. In 1937 he was sent to a concentration camp where he remained until the end of the Nazi regime. This was where he witnessed the resiliency the of Jehovah's Witnesses. He reminisced in his book written shortly after the war's end: We Christians of today are put to shame by a so-called sect like the Bible Students (Jehovah's Witnesses), who by the hundreds and thousands have gone into concentration camps and died because they refused to serve in war and declined to fire on human beings. In this as in many other matters, it should now be clear that exactly we, the Church and Christians, today are called to penance and repentance if we would continue to preach God's word and represent his cause!(n13) The great majority of Evangelical Christians supported the national socialist movement in Germany. Political and religious resistance groups like communists, socialists, Pfarrernotbund, and the Confessional Church were first of all fighting for their own interests, their own existence, and their own bid for power. The ultimate conclusion to be drawn is the one which Wolfgang Benz states in his paper "Widerstand," or Resistance: Resistance in the political sense, with the intention of overthrowing the National Socialist regime, was never given by the Confessional Church as a whole. It was fighting first for the integrity of its own organizational structure, and then for the independence of its church teaching, according to which the Christian commandments could never be subjected to National Socialist ideology.(n14) THE WITNESSES' RELIGIOUS RESISTANCE INTERPRETED AND EVALUATED A religious interpretational model can be found in the eschatological beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses. They saw Hitler's Reich as the demonic advancement of Satan and his army. Their resistance was a part of Jehovah's battle with Satan, and they viewed themselves as Jehovah's apostles, witnesses, and disciples. God had given them the mission to resist the Nazis. Already the apocalypse (the Revelation of John) had predicted the battle against wickedness, and now they saw, in the war against the War against Nazism, the fulfillment of Bible prophecy. They did not see the persecution against them as divine justice, but as the final battle of Armageddon before the heralded thousand-year reign. It was a battle of the righteous against the Antichrist and against "his" proclaimed thousand-year reign of darkness. Another trial from Satan for these biblically-fundamentalist Witnesses was the offer of signing a declaration which required them to deny their faith in return for freedom from the concentration camps. Such an offer must have seemed to the Witnesses like Satan's temptation of Jesus in the New Testament, where Satan requires: "If you recognize me and reject Jehovah, you will be able to live in the earthly world, otherwise you will remain in my power."(n15) In contrast to the Jews, who were God's chosen people by virtue of the old covenant, the Jehovah's Witnesses saw themselves as chosen because they had accepted the true faith by an act of their own choice, which served as ground for the new covenant. In this view of "chosenness" we see the difference between the Jehovah's Witnesses' interpretation of the persecution against them and the Jewish view of the Holocaust as a trial impossible to understand and an inescapable punishment from God. The Witnesses' assessment of Hitler's mad ambition is stated eloquently by Franz Zurcher, a leading Jehovah's Witness in Switzerland who published a documentation about Nazi Germany in 1938: These ungodly elements (the Hitler dictatorship) who have rejected Christ and the Bible, now also turn against Catholicism and Protestantism, because they now feel strong enough. He who fails to see the obvious course of fascism in the world history, does not recognize the spirit of Rome or Berlin, namely the gigantic crusade against the Bible and against Christianity which dictators will continue to perpetrate down to the very end. All the written publications by these self-appointed crusaders against Jews and Christians are dedicated to struggle. Its aim is to glorify violence, to justify terror against peaceful justice, and to condone brutal persecution against Christians.(n16) This terror meant for Jehovah's Witnesses the very beginning of the end. From the hoarse voices of those cruel "Ubermenschen" we perceive the cries of the powers of darkness, of the unclean spirits which according to the Book of Revelation would tear the nations away from God and Christ and down into the dark valley of Armageddon ....(n17) J. F. Rutherford, the American president of the Watch Tower Society, on 9 February 1934 wrote a letter to Reichskanzler Adolf Hitler which opened with these words: Mr. Chancellor, This letter is both a friendly notification and a warning about things that will be of the utmost importance for your well-being. You will find that it is in your own interest to read this letter carefully. During the last ten years the leaders and the people of Germany have got to know through wide distribution of literature that God's Kingdom has come and that his King Christ Jesus will establish righteous government for the earth to the blessing of its peoples. The warning goes out that all those who stand up against God and his Kingdom will be destroyed by the Lord in Armageddon. Your government has disregarded this warning.(n18) This letter is a key document because it outlines the program and the later actions of Jehovah's Witnesses in the Third Reich. The German leadership of the Watch Tower Society knew about the letter but not the general membership. The repeated mention of the coming battle of the end, a major tenet of the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses, made clear to all Witnesses what to expect. As a message directly addressed to Hitler it is also made clear that he could be seen as the central figure, the Antichrist of the Apocalypse. In contrast to the Jews, the Jehovah's Witnesses saw a meaning in their persecution, their suffering, and their active but non-violent religious battle. Their faith had survived the Nazi rulership with perfect moral integrity. The German Witness Franz Kusserow (1882-1950), who had been imprisoned by the National Socialists for seven years and four months and was liberated only in 1945, wrote shortly after the end of the war to the Nazi judge at the family court which had deprived him of custody of three of his children: Thus two religious and ideological creeds were facing each other: On one side the National Socialist idea built on imperfect laws made by imperfect people; on the other side the faith of people who were loyally dedicated to God on the basis of the perfect laws of God. Which faith or ideology would win the final victory? Well, National Socialism is already in ruins. Those who spoke for it in bombastic and glorious terms are now branded as cowards and criminals. They were the lawmakers who stamped the study of the Holy Scriptures as a crime and put faithful men of God into prison and concentration camps only because they were thinking and acting in obedience to the guidelines of God. Which faith will win? The answer of the Holy Scriptures is: "The faith that has conquered the world."(n19) THE DECLARATION OF 25 JUNE 1933: A TEXTUAL ANALYSIS Only a few months after Hitler seized power, the activities of Jehovah's Witnesses were banned in the various states of the Reich (e.g., Bavaria and Saxonia) on the basis of the Order of 28 February 1933, for "the prevention of Communistic acts of violence dangerous to the State" and for "the restoration of public security and order." Between 24 April and 29 April, the Watchtower printery in Magdeburg (Prussia) was seized by German Police and the SA. The seizure ended temporarily, but by the end of June the premises were again shut down--this time permanently. A few weeks later, twenty-five truckloads of Bibles and Bible literature from the Watchtower were publicly burned by the National Socialists. As the situation for Jehovah's Witnesses clearly continued to darken (on 24 June 1933, Prussia also issued a ban on their activities), the Watch Tower Society decided, together with its German branch office, to hold a large convention in Berlin-Wilmersdorf. The seven thousand delegates present adopted a Declaration which spoke out against the false charges of seditious activity and emphasized the political neutrality of Jehovah's Witnesses. This resolution was addressed to Reichskanzler Adolf Hitler in the form of a petition, an appeal. The churches in Germany today claim that this Declaration represented an attempt on the part of Jehovah's Witnesses to curry the favor of Hitler and his Nazi state, and that it included anti-Jewish statements. They claim that it was only after the failure of this attempt that Jehovah's Witnesses resisted the Nazi regime. The charges climaxed in the accusation that the American Watch Tower Office and its president, J. F. Rutherford, had knowingly sacrificed the German Jehovah's Witnesses and pushed them onto a road that would inevitably lead to martyrdom. A textual analysis of the actual document indicates that these accusations are erroneous. The passages quoted from the Declaration create the impression that it was primarily a justification, an overture toward the Nazi system, and that it was influenced by anti-Jewish attitudes. This, however, is a falsification of the facts. From a secular point of view, the document was a "sermon" directed to the addressee, Reichskanzler Hitler himself. It was a clear dissociation from the powers of this world but it took for granted that surely even Hitler had good intentions, that even he must have wanted to do good. But it also proclaimed that if this should prove not to be so, then the Reichskanzler and Fuhrer of the German people belonged to the kingdom of Satan. Hitler would then become an enemy of Jehovah and his Witnesses. These straightforward statements left the Reichskanzler with only two possible conclusions: either the Declaration was the product of the collective imaginations of some crazed religious group or, it was, in its mad boldness, a declaration of war from a David against a Goliath. While the powerful Roman Catholic Church had entered into a gentleman's agreement with the dictator in the form of the concordat, here a small Christian faction was blowing the trumpet of Jericho and demanding, in sermon-style and in all earnestness, that Hitler should subject himself completely to the will of Jehovah. In turn the church promised that it would then maintain its neutrality, as it did in all other states. And although Hitler was still addressed in politely neutral terms, this small group did not hesitate to call its business partner, the Roman Catholic Church, a tool of "the great enemy Satan." The Witnesses repudiated the charges that they were supported by Jews or Bolsheviks--accusations of "Satan's tool" were whispered into the Reichskanzler's ears by the "official" churches. And certainly, the established churches had long been pushing for an official ban on this "sectarian" but above all zealous Christian denomination. Under the Weimar Republic such attempts had dissipated. Because Jehovah's Witnesses advocate only one government, that of God's Kingdom, some have viewed them as subversive. But nothing could be further from the truth. In imitation of Jesus' apostles, "they are no part of the world" (John 17:16). They are politically neutral. Because of their loyalty to God, they obey the laws of their respective human governments. Indeed, they are exemplary in their "subjection to the superior authorities" (Romans 13:1). Never have they advocated rebellion against any human government! There is, however, a line that cannot be crossed under any circumstances. It is the line between the duty of Jehovah's Witnesses to man and their duty to God. They seek to render to Caesar what belongs to Caesar but to God what belongs to God (Matthew 22:21). The passages from the Declaration which the churches today single out for quotation cannot rightfully be termed antisemitic or anti-Jewish; rather, they are anti-American or perhaps even anti-world. The polemic against the Anglo-American world power with its big business enterprises built up by "commercial" Jews must be seen in its entire context, and, in judging the German version of the Declaration it must be kept in mind that it is a translation from the American original. Jehovah's Witnesses were not prepared to subject themselves to any earthly rulership. They maintained "strict neutrality." This position certainly leaves no room for "currying the favor" of Hitler. Notice, too, that the Declaration does not address him as "Fuhrer" and does not conclude with the words "Heil Hitler," as was the case during that time on most documents from churches to state authorities. A summary of the Declaration of 25 June 1933 demonstrates the following self-evident principles: 1. A refutation of the charges that the Witnesses were financed by Jews or communists; 2. The declaration of their absolute neutrality in politics, that their activity was solely religious; 3. The opposition to the (Catholic) Church, which is seen as a political institution; and, 4. A proclamation of being true followers of Jesus Christ and disciples of him. Each argument was supported by quotations from the Bible as the only authority and guide for the action of Jehovah's Witnesses. It is also interesting to note the emphatic statement from Jehovah's Witnesses that they "have no criticism of any honest religious teacher"; what they criticize is the "wrongful religious influence in the political affairs of the nation." It cannot even be said that they criticized the teachings of other churches: "We [the Jehovah's Witnesses] do not object to or try to hinder anyone's teaching or believing what he desires." The anticlerical views of Jehovah's Witnesses were, however, quite clear. They explicitly mentioned the Catholic Church and the Jesuits as their enemies. Almost naively they advertised that their "American brethren have greatly assisted in (their) work in Germany," but that the secularization of the churches in America was unjustifiable. And if it seems that their view of the League of Nations was shared with Hitler, it was not because they agreed with Hitler but due to their own religious view of the world. According to a former Nazi official, the fact that the Witnesses included end-of-the-world prophecies in their Declaration as a central teaching at a time when Hitler endeavored to build his own millennium must have seemed, in his eyes, to be nothing less than an invitation to fight. The absence of influence by the antisemitic vocabulary of the time is seen from the Declaration's free and unabashed use of Old Testament quotations that include the name of "Zion." The Declaration climaxed in the statement that since Jehovah's Witnesses have put themselves on God's side, all who fight against them are bound to lose: "But as for us, we will serve Jehovah forever." If Hitler ever read this Declaration personally, the result must certainly have been one of his historical fits of rage. According to the Witnesses, one particular story has it that upon reading the Declaration Hitler exclaimed: "This brood must be exterminated from Germany."(n20) When the entire text of the Declaration of 25 June 1933 and the letter to Hitler are seen today in the context of the history of Jehovah's Witnesses during the period of National Socialism in Germany and the history of their religious resistance and their stand during the Holocaust, then the text does not present itself as an "antisemitic statement" or an attempt at "currying the favor" of Hitler. These accusations, stemming from present-day church circles, are deliberate manipulations and falsifications of history, seemingly motivated by guilt over the churches' own involvement or lack or involvement in the persecutions. At the time of the 1933 convention and even later, governments, statesmen, and diplomats from all countries were freely negotiating with Hitler and showing him their respect and reverence. Even in 1936, as thousands had already been put into concentration camps (with Jehovah's Witnesses among the very first), the international Olympic games were held under the emblem of the Swastika. It is possible to see the Declaration as absurd or ridiculous from a secular point of view in its completely unrealistic judgment of the political situation. This seems to be the case with those critics from church circles who seek to find strategic failings in the resistance of the Witnesses in the fact that the Watchtower Society was under American leadership. This is an entirely secular evaluation that shows more about the churches and their own internal makeup than it contributes to the search for truth. The official churches were, and are, so firmly integrated into the political and social establishment of the state that they are themselves an integral part of the secular world. As religious institutions in the time of the Nazi reign, they were unfit to follow the commands of the Bible in a literal way or to motivate a majority of their members to do so. Only a few individuals from the two large churches, acting independently, were exceptions to the generally collaborative or indifferent church membership. CONCLUSION The worldview of the Jehovah's Witnesses did not conform to the logic of the "rational human mind"--if it did, the obvious conclusion would have been that one cannot resist Hitler's dictatorship and that a non-violent resistance on the part of a small religious group would lead to its elimination. It was the "logic of absolute faith" of a biblical-fundamentalist Christian group that made possible this resistance based on faith. It is amazing that the churches, of all groups, today are forcing a religious community to come forward and justify the resistance it made in those times, when irrefutable evidence proves that this religious group demonstrated unique steadfastness and had to make extraordinary sacrifices. The resistance of Jehovah's Witnesses proved two things: first, that the size of the religious group resisting the Nazis had nothing to do with outcomes; and second, that a pacifist resistance in the form of refusal to cooperate was possible--and that the price for this was often one's own life. These are the answers to give to those later generations who ask: "Why did you not do anything?" As publications of the recent past demonstrate, the research into these forgotten victims of Nazi persecution has only just begun. To the established Protestant and Catholic churches of Germany, this means a renewed challenge, not only to deal with their own past failings, but to reconcile these failings with their claim to be followers of Jesus Christ. One things stands out clearly from the moving eyewitness accounts in the video documentation program "Jehovah's Witnesses Stand Firm Against Nazi Assault" (1996): there were no directions from the Central Office of the Watch Tower Society. The directions all came from the Holy Scriptures, both the Old and New Testaments. Jehovah's Witnesses can rightfully claim to have resisted the "wicked." In a literal sense they have fulfilled their own claim of being true followers of Jesus Christ, while the two large churches in Germany, as they openly admit, failed terribly. Six decades later it is now time to show them respect in the name of Christianity. Without the example of this steadfast Christian group under the oppression of the National Socialist dictatorship, we would--after Auschwitz and the Holocaust--have to doubt whether it is at all possible to fulfill the Christian teachings of Jesus.
      Hello guest!
  7. 3 points
    The locusts of Joel Chapter 2 no longer refer to Jehovah's Witnesses and events surrounding 1919. The locusts in Revelation chapter 22 however still do refer to the anointed, but are now no longer connected with the prophecy on Joel. Joel 2 now refers to the "Babylonians", the coalition of nations that will try to destroy God's people. The context of Joel chapter 2 points the time period of fulfillment to Jehovah's Day in the Great Tribulation and how God will save his people.
  8. 3 points
    Some other pictures make this clearer: The language is "Hebrew" and the writing is still using the"Paleo-Hebrew" letters that are associated with Phoenician and "pre-Hebrew" Mycenaean alphabets. Hebrew could have been much older as a spoken language, but in written form, Hebrew characters developed from earlier Mycenaean/Phoenician alphabets. In 10th century (BC) documents this is the alphabet still used, and over time the Hebrew characters began dropping some of these close association with Mycenaean. It might make one wonder what the alphabet on the stones of the 10 commandments looked like, perhaps half-a-millennium earlier. Also note that many of the actual items harvested (grapes, wheat, olives) are never actually mentioned, only assumed. The way this actually shortens the verses makes me think (maybe) that this might have been lyrics to a song. It's also interesting that the plural word for month is apparently used as a "dual." You get 12 months total, only if the word "months" must always mean TWO months. [Although consider the Hebrew leap year, of 13 months] Also of interest is that the Bible usually uses the word CHODESH for month, and the word used here is YERAHH (YERACH). An interesting development in the different uses is found here. But the Biblical plural for YERACH is YERACHIM. The plural (likley limited to dual) in the calendar is YRCHW (unknown pronunciation).
  9. 3 points
    Anna

    2019 Annual Meeting wishes

    Thank you for your expressions. I wanted to respond a little sooner than this but I ran out of time. Here are my thoughts on some of the things you mention. Just my two cents 😀. I used to think the same way, but just because it says update, doesn't mean the actual content is changed (like different wording of a scripture for example) but it is more to do with technical updates to make things compatible with constant changes and updates in the way various operating systems work, similar to windows system, Firefox etc. It is normal for any websites to do that. If there are any doctrinal or organizational changes, then we are usually made aware of them in a WT study. That would be a cool thing for those who like to dig deep.I noticed sometimes there are references to further reading, but not often. I don't know, but perhaps because everything is being simplified, sort of like we've already researched all the subjects, so no need to keep bringing it up, time to move on kind of thing. The publications with all those references are still available for anyone to read and research though. I understand some of the things you are saying regarding this subject. I especially agree with your last two points. I suppose striving for hours is an incentive some people need. It would be great if the friends would put in pioneer hours without actually pioneering. But we mustn't forget that if a publisher signs up to be a pioneer, then they know what they are doing, they know they are committing themselves to a certain promise. The problem is why are they doing it. Is it because they need an incentive, or is it because they like the title? If I am not mistaken, there is no specific regulation which says you can't do those things you have described. For example when going door to door in a remote village in one Easter European country, the brothers do not wear a tie because the locals would get confused and suspicious, and not be open to discussions. It is always a good idea to adapt our preaching according to local circumstances. We should never be stuck on just one way. With the counting...I read somewhere that JWs keep the best and most reliable records. If there is any kind of worldly survey carried out, for example with regard to the numbers (members) of a particular religion, they always seem to trust the JW numbers the most. Haha, that would be funny. I don't think that will ever happen because it's too judgmental. But I understand your point! I think it's obvious that the reaction to a new Bible would be very positive. Therefor I don't think this was so much a request for information, but a confirmation of a "work well done". However the questions you propose, are on a different level and would require an awful lot of work sifting through the submissions. But I agree. I think JW Insider mentioned something about a "suggestion box" option on our website. Or even a "ask questions" box. I think both would be a very good idea. At the moment as you say, it is left up to the CO's to give some kind of report. But the thing is, many friends do not like to bring an issue up which they think might be viewed controversial or even rebellious. I know I don't. But if these comments could be made anonymously on the website, then I am sure the organization would get a much better idea of the state of the congregations and friends. The problem is some kind of mechanism would have to be put into effect that prevented just ANYONE from commenting. That way people who were merely trouble makers (opposers etc.) wouldn't clog up the whole site, or give the wrong impression that the friends were having these problems, whereas it would really be ex- witnesses. To be honest we don't have that problem in my congregation. There are many excellent auxiliary answers given. I suppose it depends on the congregation. Although we are all united, each congregation has its unique style/character. That's why you get some people "shopping" for a congregation they like, if they are not happy in the one they are at. I agree completely! I always go to sleep when they do that. I don't see the point. I think that this is already going on to a certain point isn't it? Also I know that things have been simplified where there are no longer room cleaners, each person must clean their own room for example. I think something like that exists in the USA.
      Hello guest!
    But I don't think it is organized by the society. Yes. Don't you just love it when an older single brother with no children tries to give you counsel about yours? Oh yes, the notorious beard issue! 🐵 A few weeks ago, in my mum's congregation, a young ministerial servant decided to grow a beard. My mum told me that the elders told him that if he wants to keep on carrying the mikes he will have to shave the beard off. This is in a country where beards are socially acceptable, and in some congregations there are elders with beards. Not many, but I know one personally. I told my mum that usually it is up to the body of elders to decide because they should know the territory well and know whether it would offend an outsider or not. She then told me that 1. my dad (an elder) wasn't told about it, and 2. there is absolutely no aversion to beards by the public as many people wear one. I asked her if this young brother was a "rebellious" type. She said not at all. Logically, he must have been qualified in order to become a min. servant. So as you can see, there is already a problem because certain elders have taken it upon themselves to decide on the matter without consulting the whole body. Who knows, these elders may not like beards, so it becomes personal, rather than theocratic. They have the Co's visit right now, so she told me she would let me know what happens. The other thing is, which I find odd, is that apparently if he shaves it off, they won't address the issue (!) I feel like telling the brother, don't shave it off, because this issue needs to be handled properly first. And once it's handled properly, and they still ask him to shave it off, then that is a different matter. As regards the photos, yes, I agree, on the one hand we are told in the WT that beards are ok in some cultures, but then on the other hand shaving a beard off is used as an example of spiritual progress. It confuses people. (P.S. Quite a large number of elders I know grow a beard while on vacation, and don't mind posting pictures on Instagram or FB, so they are not hiding it, but then once they go back to the meeting they shave it off). I will comment on the doctrinal part next time. (when I have more time).
  10. 3 points
    TrueTomHarley

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    Give them permanent “W”s
  11. 3 points
    Melinda Mills

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    I would say it another way: False religion is a snare and a racket. Not hard to correct. Abel had a religion and all of God's servants since. Definition of religion: Concise Oxford Dictionary: belief in, worship of, or obedience to a supernatural power or powers considered to be divine or to have control of human destiny; 2 any formal or institutionalized expression of such belief, e.g. the Christian religion. ...5. something of overwhelming importance to a person.
  12. 3 points
    I think that one is excellent too. It follows the same general format of showing how the Bible answers the Big Question of how problems on earth will be solved through God's Kingdom. The angle of Truth and Trust in the Bible is the theme. Again, there is nothing stated in this magazine that should produce any unresolved questions. I believe even JTR would have to rate it somewhere near 100 percent useful, rather than his oft-repeated 15/85 rating. I'm going to try not to get drawn into a 1914 discussion, at least not on this particular thread/topic. But I do understand what you are saying. I'm not sure how far back you are going, because even up to as recently as 2014, there were plenty of references that could have meant what you refer to. The Isaiah 44/45 (Babylon-Cyrus) prophecy comes across as the most amazing prophecy to outsiders. It's simple, and it's used, of course, in the self-run free study on the JW.ORG website. The only persons for whom it would not work so well are those who believe that "Isaiah II" were chapters tacked onto the original book of Isaiah after the Babylonian exile. If you listen closely to the Faith In Action -"Out of Darkness" Part 1 video, I think it's clear that Daniel's "prediction" of 1914 is a better example for "insiders." An outsider would have too many unresolved questions: Most outsiders aren't into this idea that the Bible pinpoints dates for end-times prophecies. They would wonder why wicked Nebuchadnezzar's rulership pictures Jesus' Messianic rulership. They would wonder why we give it an additional application when the scripture itself explicitly says the application is to Nebuchadnezzar, and says nothing about an assumed second application. And they would wonder how we got 1914 from 7 times anyway. It doesn't even say 7 times are 7 years (that takes another scripture from a completely different context). And if it did mean 7 times were 7 years here, it doesn't say that those years were actually 360-day years, which also comes from its use in a different context. And if it did mean that 7 times were 360-day years, it doesn't say that those 7 times 360 have to each be multiplied again by 365.25. That's because the day-for-a-year idea also comes from a different context. And if they looked into it more deeply, they might wonder why we were forced to use a mix of secular dates for some events and pseudo-secular dates for some other events. Some of the dates we accept are the same as the secular dates, and some are 20 years different from the secular dates, but this time in the same context. They might wonder why a Bible prophecy would even rely on secular dates in the first place since the Bible itself never uses a secular date like 539 BCE, 607 BCE, 587 BCE, 33 CE, etc. They might wonder why we inconsistently claim that these "seven times" must be multiplied by 360, then multiplied again by 365.25 days each, when we claim that all uses of the term "three and a half times" in the Bible (Daniel & Revelation) should NEVER be multiplied again by 365.25, but only multiplied by 360. And even then, we allow for round-off in the use of "three and a half times." And if they looked into Babylonian and Jewish calendar systems a bit closer, they might notice that there was no such thing as a period of 7 years that did not contain at least two (sometimes three) intercalary months so that the number of days in ALL 7 year periods would always be closer to 2,568 days, not 2,520. Some of these questions would likely remain unresolved to an outsider, no matter how well we tried to explain them. They work for most those of us on the inside, because we generally trust that all those questions were probably resolved by persons who have a lot more holy spirit available to them than we do. So we just accept that we don't have to ask such questions. Besides, when I mentioned the "Out of Darkness" video, I am primarily referring to the very fact that this prophecy is used as one that is supposed to prove that Jehovah was using Russell (not Daniel). At the 44:20 mark in that video, we hear Brother Gerrit Lösch say: ". . . it enhanced their trust that Jehovah was using Brother Russell and his friends to explain truth to others." At the 44:30 mark in the video, we hear Brother Anthony Morris say: ". . . it's still significant that they could pinpoint that year. That's phenomenal!" This is hardly about the original prophecy anymore. In effect, this 1914 prophecy is therefore our own "internal" evidence (bragging rights) that there was an element of true inspiration from Jehovah to those who were supposedly "wise" enough to pinpoint that year by jumping through mental hoops that Daniel would have never dreamed of.
  13. 2 points
    TrueTomHarley

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    Of course. I said that you “could easily be accused of running ahead.” I didn’t say that I would do it. I would not. Everyone here “runs ahead” to one degree or another. Moreover, the censure of anyone here doesn’t matter. It is understood that the site has nothing to do with the congregation and does not attract any Witness that is typical. Yes. It was my answer that I never got around to making when CMP—or was it JWI?—presented his wish list of what the annual meeting might present. He wished for less emphasis on the nearness of the end, and even suggested that the last days should be understood to have commenced in Jesus’ time. “Angels are desiring to peer into these things” I almost said. “Are you going to tell them to straighten up and get back to work?” It makes the Bible come alive when we do this. One really can’t go wrong with this attitude. I do this myself—and all the more so since I am clearly “out there” for a brother. Whole lotta bending going on here, that’s for sure.
  14. 2 points
    Arauna

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    I agree with you. ...... Unfortunately, to want control other humans is morally wrong. Most apostates here do not like any form of control over them - even when it comes from God...... who actually is the only one who has the right to prescribe one set of principles for all. We are all meant to be equal under God. If every person sets their own rules there will never be peace and unity. When a human wants to control anything about another human - he is showing satanic qualities. We never should try to control anything which belongs to, or is part of another human. Total freedom and equality under God - this is the goal. This is respect for another human's free will to choose what they want. Unfortunately, some Witnesses are imperfect in their love and still tend to like to control others without respect for their free will. Jehovah even allows those who oppose him to express their free will. In future in paradise, all people will willingly subject themselves to Jehovah and his standards in free will. They will never try to tell another person what to do because all will be totally free and equal under God. Society will then function perfectly because the law of love will prevail. No laws are necessary if one truly loves others. One will not covet anything which is another's or take anything from them or dominate them in an way by being egotistical, selfish or greedy. Jehovah will step into mankind"s affairs when humans have reached a point of totalitarian domination - soon they will use our modern technology (our arrogant achievements) to dominate mankind in a most unjust way....... history of mankind (estranged from god) repeating itself. By the way, I watch China and Russia (allies) as fulfillment of the prophecies in Daniel 11 :40 onward. Soon we will see the worst domination on earth mankind has ever experienced...... if jehovah does not step in ...no flesh will be saved. We have reached the apex of our tech achievements and like everything else .... our tendency to dominate (imperfection) will bring this dire situation about.
  15. 2 points
  16. 2 points
    So is Allen Smith. I have never banned anyone. And if I had the power to ban someone from this forum, I wouldn't. I don't believe it's useful to ban anyone from an Internet forum. The Internet is full of persons dealing with obsessive-compulsive disorders, manic-depressive tendencies, and a host of other disorders and tendencies and social difficulties. Internet forums attract such persons and we can never tell who is suffering from any of these issues and who isn't. And perhaps that often goes for admins and site owners, too. Who of us when trying to judge others of such things, is fully aware of our own mental and social failings? As far as I'm concerned, everyone can stay, and forum software should allow individuals the ability to choose who they choose to read from. A forum owner or admin should have the ability to perform some actions against a specific post, if there is good reason and if other persons are bringing it to their attention. But they should not take it upon themselves to remove anyone's posting privileges, and they should definitely not delete all of that person's past posts. The rebuke of the majority should be enough for them. Contemporary English Version (2 Cor 2:6) Most of you have already pointed out the wrong that person did, and this is punishment enough for what was done. I don't think any of us really can know the effect of upvoting and downvoting on others. I believe that the only person I have ever down-voted, at least in the last few years, is JTR. Never any of Allen's or his minions. I think JTR can take it, and even more of his posts have deserved a downvote, in my opinion, than the ones I have actually downvoted. Upvotes and laughs I give out liberally, but I don't use the "Ha-Ha" as a way of expressing haughty derision the way that Allen and most of his other identities were apt to use it. Some obviously come here because they love the banter, they love to have their ideas challenged, they love to be provocative, or they love to find persons they can feel 'holier than.' Some come here because they can learn interesting things about subjects they are interested in, things they might not have considered. In the case of Witnesses, I think that many of us enjoyed the challenge of meeting that preacher when out in service who would challenge us and we'd stay for half an hour. (Guilty!) I used to start Bible Studies by the dozens, literally, with college students, for up to two years per study, and many would come up with some difficulties I had never heard of before. A very low percentage were ever baptized, about 3 out of 30. Now, we just don't do that anymore. Perhaps some of us miss it.
  17. 2 points
    It is not the same thing. We do not expel people from the area they are living in or deny them a living.
  18. 2 points
    Back to the topic of the OP. I think that the Democrats have show a usual level of stupidity, and then in addition, are falling into a huge trap here. I have seen Giuliani so sloppy at times that he doesn't realize he was being an accidental whistleblower himself (against Trump), but I saw him much better prepared on this particular story (in a Fox News interview) and even there he hinted that the Democrats are walking into a trap. Trump himself does not usually come across so well prepared on any particular news story, either, and he often wings it with statements he ends up walking back. But this is so clearly a story they are well prepared for, not just in defense against attacks by Democrats, but as a proactive strategy to bring down Biden a couple notches, and embarrass the Democratic party. The Democrats had many Republicans on their side in creating a big anti-Russia strategy that attempted to tie everything Trump did to a close "nefarious" association with Putin. To this end, Democrats even sloppily tried to tie Paul Manifort to Russia, when Manifort was mostly an anti-Russian working for Ukraine's interests (which are opposed to Russia). A lot of people think that it's unfair to speak of any nation as having a "Nazi" agenda, but Ukraine is really an exception, because it has truly held onto the Nazi legacy from 1945 until today. Although we don't know if the new president, a former Jewish comedian, will attempt to stem the Nazi party which has dominated official Ukrainian government agencies for years. Democrats had to ignore this "Nazi" agenda when FaceBook and the Democrats were looking into Ukrainian accusations against Russia. Ukraine had to be presented as "the good guys" to try to paint Russia in such a bad light. Inseparably, Russian oil pipelines always ran through Ukraine although Russia only recently created some workarounds, so the "oilgarchs" of Russia and Ukraine might have less leverage now. But corrupt "officials" and "unofficials" from the US and elsewhere have been able to profit off the oily corruption between these two states for years. I mention this because the only parry to the sword hanging over Biden right now was the fact that Trump's former campaign manager Paul Manifort was ALSO involved in getting money from related entities in Ukraine. Then, Biden's son (Hunter) was evidently put on the board of a mid-sized energy company and paid about a million euros a year. Ukraine's Attorney General wanted to look into this and his father, VP Joe Biden, tried to get that Attorney General removed. (There are also additional monthly payments totalling closer to 2 million a year going to undisclosed persons.) The Democrats have already gloated over the demise of Manifort, but on separate grounds, so that it would just create confusion or appear like sour grapes to try to present Manifort as Biden "parity." Letting the whole Mueller thing play out was a bit risky, but has paid off for Republicans. Democrats are now just grasping at the few remaining straws.
  19. 2 points
    An example of an anti type, and we know what we think of anti types lately: " Over the years, Jehovah has helped “the faithful and discreet slave” to become more discreet, or cautious. In what way? Now the faithful slave is careful to say that a Bible account represents something greater only when there is a clear Scriptural reason to do so." ws15 3/15 p. 6 Is there a good scriptural reason to use Nebuchadnezzar's rulership as applying to Jesus? I don't know, I haven't researched it enough. And this is the crux of the matter. I am a perfect example of an average Witness, who really just takes this particular doctrine as matter of fact without thoroughly "making sure whether it is so". Why? Because it is darn time consuming and complicated. And I would say at least 95% of Witnesses feel the same way. Which means 95% of Witnesses believe this doctrine without having convinced themselves whether it is really true or not. Hmmmm.......
  20. 2 points
    I have never heard any JW explain that. It needs no explanation. It's like when an Eagle swoops down on a lake, and snatches a large fish out of the water, it's talons deeply embedded in the fish's body, that this is that natural order of things, and is entirely natural, appropriate, and the way the REAL WORLD works, and is supposed to work. The fish, and many JWs of course, may have a different opinion. Perhaps in the New System, from a boat they can toss straw up in the air for Eagles, and what falls in the water the fish will eat, and insects and rodents will rule the Earth.
  21. 2 points
  22. 2 points
    Sounds like Allen Smith is in a tizzy for having to create multiple new accounts........AGAIN! Allen, you can come out now, we know it's you!
  23. 1 point
    Allen_Smith

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    You must be confused TTH. I know the parrot is you. I don't think you would "BAN" yourself, unless you feel you need to do it in order to confuse people or make a deceptive point. I've known that Parrot since Jehovah's Witness dot net when you spoke harshly about the Watchtower. So, try to keep your deceptive story straight. You will make a better storyteller. But, I will agree, I have been banned because of people like you, Anna, JWinsider, JTR. People that are far from being witnesses. So, I don't see why you argue with "witness" another false prophet, when you should be, agreeing with her. I don't see the need to continue being deceptive about whom the Admin and the Librarian is. Who the old hen is. That boat sailed long ago when you gave up that info by trying to computer hack a member of my group. Therefore, stop trying to be cute and witty, you're no better a liar than, JWinsider. Ban me again!
  24. 1 point
    Witness

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    @TrueTomHarley stated: "There are no “typical” Witnesses here, in my view, except for a few that occasionally stray here, sometimes naively offer comments, thinking persons will be readjusted, and then leave shocked when they discover that no way will it happen. On a few occasions, I have chased them away—it is fine for them to stay here if they wish, but they should know the score before they do. They should not think that Witness, for example, is some misguided sister that they can help with but a kind word or two." Yes Tom, I have more power to mislead a JW than 8 men put together. Incredible, isn’t it? Although with wolves, there is power in numbers. One thing about spiritual wolves among sheep, is that they rub shoulders with them, and gain their confidence. They speak soothing words with poison on their lips. Ps 140:3 Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. Matt 7:15-20 Clear evidence that you reside among wolves is WT's failed, distorted, changed doctrine. CLEAR EVIDENCE, ACCORDING TO CHRIST. YET, IGNORED BY THOSE WHO CHOOSE TO REMAIN BLIND TO THE EVIDENCE. 2 Cor 4:1-4 Even the seemingly innocent ones led by wolves, can mislead a sheep through prophetic speculation; while also misleading oneself with one’s own, provocative lie. Perhaps you can explain how the focus of Daniel 11 switches from the trampling of the anointed "saints", over to the conquering of the entire world. Is God's Temple found in a government of the world? Is it found in a religion of the world? It is found in the hearts of the anointed ones, who are found in the organization. They are the target of Satan in the last days. 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22 Rev 20:7-9 “Then the king will do whatever he wants. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god, (John 10:34-36) and he will say outrageous things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, because what has been decreed will be accomplished.” Dan 11:36,37 “It acted arrogantly even against the Prince of the heavenly army;(Rev 1:5) it revoked his regular sacrifice and overthrew the place of his sanctuary.” Dan 8:11 "His forces will rise up and desecrate the temple fortress. They will abolish the regular sacrifice and set up the abomination of desolation.” Dan 11:31 “His power will be great, but it will not be his own power. (Rev 13:14,15; 19:20) He will cause outrageous destruction and succeed in whatever he does. He will destroy the powerful along with the holy people.” Dan 8:24 “He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits in God’s temple, proclaiming that he himself is God.” 2 Thess 2:4 "Then I was given a measuring reed like a rod, with these words: “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count those who worship there. 2 But exclude the courtyard outside the temple. Don’t measure it, because it is given to the Gentiles, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months." Rev 11:1,2 "Representing the royal priesthood are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the earth. These men deserve our respect and wholehearted support, whether they are of the anointed or not. Rather than challenge their authority, we truly appreciate our hardworking elders! Their record of faithful service, often over many decades, inspires our trust. " W 02/8/1 This is doctrine of men, that contradicts God's decrees found in the Bible. 2 Chron 13:9; 23:6,7; Num 18:7; Dan 9:27 (edited) If JWs say they love the scriptures, and love God, then I would hope they would research what is happening in their own corrupt organization, that calls itself "spirit-directed". Rev 13:15 Otherwise, to ignore God's decrees concerning HIS priesthood, is utter hypocrisy. The “man of lawlessness”/elder body conquers the priesthood by ruling over it; and halting, dissolving their priestly sacrifices of praise from their own lips; and instead, expecting them to regurgitate "fruit" that comes from a "bad tree"/wicked slave. Matt 24:48-51 (edited) The GB are not a conglomerate High Priest that directs the priesthood. That only, is Christ. Heb 5:5,6,9,10 The word for "bad" in Matt 7:15-20 above, means "corrupt" "unfit for use", "worthless". So, why do JWs continue in giving allegiance to 8 men who cannot produce "good" ("good constitution", "upright") fruit, since the evidence in scripture shows that bad fruit (spoiled, discarded teachings) does not grow on a "good tree"? We are, what we eat. "Iron and Clay" 4womaninthewilderness blogspot, Pearl Doxsey
  25. 1 point
    JW Insider

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    Yes. This is partly true. My old boss was from the mainland, where his parents still live, but had moved to work in Hong Kong before getting a job in New York. Most of his relatives still live on the mainland, so when he goes back he visits Hong Kong first, then his other relatives. We recently met at a restaurant with a couple other retirees from the same company, and we talked for a couple hours. I ran a few of these same "young people" arguments by him, and it's true that he is very wary of some of the government's business and economic plans, although he admits that they are currently working. He is very anti-communist as many Chinese-born US citizens are. But the one area he says the US (and West) has all wrong is the Uyghur ("Weeger") situation. He says that you have to read between the lines, or learn how to pick the one CNN report in 10 that gets it right. He is surprised that they allow reports to be completely contradictory (although he listens to an International version of CNN) along with a lot of anti-Chinese media. What's curious is that these "concentration camps" are not "concentration camps," as there is no torture, no forced hard labor, etc. Although Chinese are definitely behind it, they are actually run mostly by Weegers and for Weegers. One of the big thrusts of the Chinese government is to try to legislate against racism, and there is plenty of racism in China. If a group appears to be very unaccepting of other groups -to the point of using violence- they are supposed to go through training in their own culture and other cultures, too. This does include "indoctrination" in the goals of the government, what we would call classes in civics and citizenship, but he says it is mostly job training, and can even include moving a Weeger family to areas to get them better jobs. China ties the problem of poverty to violent rioting and demonstrations. Muslims around the world have agreed that this has worked as a method of reducing radicalization and has eliminated terrorism. Most of China, of course, are Han, although there are several million Weegers, mostly in the Xinjiang province. The first big problem with the Weegers came about after riots that evidently began with rumors of Weegers raping a Han, and other rumors that spread and morphed out of this one. The Han instigated violent riots against the Weegers, and China put a lot of effort into punishing the Han offenders. On the mainland, he says that the Chinese support and defense of the Weegers is a source of anger by racist Chinese. The actual number of Weegers required to go through the training programs are probably in the tens of thousands, he thinks. (The idea of "millions" is a Western invention.) He also mentioned that China has helped Muslims build mosques, not only in China but also in Africa. The Weegers have a vibrant culture in the Xinjiang province that China supports. By the way, the entire Muslim world does NOT believe the Weeger propaganda. Even when the UN resolution condemning the "Weeger" situation was promoted by the West, it was signed on by only about 22 countries, all white (US, UK, etc) and ZERO Islamic countries signed onto the resolution. The NYT which attempts at least one big anti-China article every week, ended up reporting the Chinese side of the argument in the context of the 22 nation campaign. While generally negative, of course, the article also included the following: China denied such actions when a United Nations human rights committee questioned the policy last year but later said it was providing vocational training to insulate Xinjiang’s population from what it described as the global scourge of extremism. To counter international critics, last month China brought Xinjiang’s deputy governor, an ethnic Uighur, to the council, where he asserted that such training is lifting Xinjiang’s people from poverty. The deputy governor, Aierken Tuniyazi, also rejected accusations that the trainees are in detention camps. “The trainees’ personal dignity and freedom are fully protected,” he said, describing students living in air-conditioned dormitories and dividing their time between learning valuable skills and participating in ethnic dancing, singing or sports. China has used its economic leverage and diplomatic muscle to support this narrative with some success. Muslim countries have remained silent and have even praised China’s treatment of its Muslims. Cameroon, a beneficiary of Chinese infrastructure spending, devoted a statement in the council last week to praising China’s “big achievement” in Xinjiang. And last month Vladimir Voronkov, the Russian diplomat heading the United Nations Counter-Terrorism Office, visited Xinjiang and in his end of mission statement made no reference to human rights concerns there, an omission that human rights groups saw as a propaganda gift to Chinese authorities. What often raises my own suspicions on these topics is a common thread of US hypocrisy. The US and other Western nations have been overreacting to Muslim countries for many years now, because it's good for the military contractors, and the oil industry. (These are often synonymous with the meaning of the expression "American interests," the thing the US is protecting every time the US joins a conflict.) Therefore, the West looks to blame China for something that might sound even worse. The West uses the IMF and World Bank and even so-called Human Rights societies to help push an agenda in countries where the West wants to plunder resources. When the West builds infrastructure in another nation it's mostly to help get those resources out of the country, not to help local workers and local civilians. The US is infamous for promoting a need for certain facilities at such a cost in IMF loans that the country is supposed to default, and then the US then has leverage to gain UN votes, build military bases, take a higher percentage of resources and profits, or completely "own" the country's new leader through a regime change. Therefore, this is what China will be blamed for doing through Western fearmongering. The pattern is very clear on several such items. The West (especially the US) does something bad, so China must be blamed for something just like it, but worse.
  26. 1 point
  27. 1 point
    Melinda Mills

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    Didn't realize how good that sentence was. "But some names stick". You didn't mention the one James alluded to. You weren't Banned, why? Yes, 101 topics in one.
  28. 1 point
    Sorry ---- I just realized that I titled this post wrong, it should read weeks for "October 14-20 and October 21-27, 2019". TB
  29. 1 point
    Does this sort of behavior, that other society groups shows in their environment, is also Bible based and approved by God, no matter of fact that they are not JW's? Can we conclude how they also doing God's will, no matter of their spiritual position before that same God and because they belong, or not belong, to some religion, but not to JW religion? If i would judge myself, i would agree with picture how i am very naive :)) But we are not speaking about me or you. We making observation on JW religion, their history and present time. My world is "small" :)) and i will not return back any idea about your "world", because that is not of my concern. I want to speak about "Ideas", not about people and their's "small or big worlds". We can talk about "JW standards"and "WT Society standards". I hope you will accept this humble direction about/for our future conversation. :))
  30. 1 point
    Anna

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    That's ok. I will need some time to go through it properly, and I don't have that right now. Going on vacation 🌍. But I will try as soon as I can.
  31. 1 point
    Foreigner

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    How did you see Jesus when you were young? Let's try to be a little honest.
  32. 1 point
    James Thomas Rook Jr.

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    Why not answer your own litany of questions ?
  33. 1 point
    the blog that I have in mind starting will be primarily non-religious. Not completely, maybe, but primarily. Reasons for putting it here: I believe you on Google ranking (I think) Plus, I like the template and robustness here. I think it is probably much more versatile than where I am and has greater visibility. Reasons for not putting it here. The blog outfit that I use is adequate. I can scale with it to fit any devise. (Seemingly an essential requirement today, but there are still bloggers who don’t have that option.) they do offer good technical support where I am. To what extent are you here to support me? I mean, if I say that I want this here and that there can you tell me how to do it. I have to be able to hawk my books. The biggest reason not to migrate here is that I want to accommodate ads on the new blog. It’s about time that it pays for itself and even turns a buck, if possible. I assume that I do not benefit from the ads here. Tech is not my forte. Decisions decisions. It’s a good thought. Thank you for calling it to my attention.
  34. 1 point
  35. 1 point
    If you belong to a golf club and break the rules you may get expelled from the group...... there are many other worldly clubs that do the same to keep their good reputation. When people join the club they know the rules. If you are unrepentent - and did a gross sin - you are saying the person must still have full rights? Even after being baptised and he knows the requirements? Worldly organizations recognise the need for shunning but we must be different? Anything goes? Even if God gives this instruction for unrepentent people? Remember - we only do this for people who PERSIST in unrepentent behaviour - who are hardened in their sin - because we first try to win them back.
  36. 1 point
    TrueTomHarley

    2019 Annual Meeting wishes

    I did oversee the food line for a time. One of the prepackaged items was “a pasta salad.” Way back then, without any inkling as to what I would be doing today, I used to refer to them as “apostasy salads.”
  37. 1 point
    On September 20, 2019, in Petrozavodsk, Dmitriy Ravnushkin, 44, was detained—right at his workplace. The Witness was taken for interrogation, which lasted about four hours, after which he was released under recognisance agreement. Three days later he was fired. His boss said: “We don’t need problems.”
      Hello guest!
  38. 1 point
    Srecko Sostar

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    Well, according to WT published evidence there are few "not faithful and discreet" reasons for San Diego Beth-Sarim house: 1) Rutherford had a severe case of pneumonia ... 2) Under a doctor’s treatment, he went to San Diego, California, and the doctor urged him to spend as much time as possible there. 3) Rutherford and his companion brothers have had religious fixation (persistent thought) about Kingdom and resurrection of past people based on fiction. 4) Explanation in magazine speaking how house fully served its purpose, but they must sell this too much expensive "monument". We see how "Purpose" of that building has nothing with real spirituality as Jesus presented it, in his life time on Earth. 5) Footnote in WT magazine said: At the time, it was believed ... This is one more prove in lines of proves, how WT Society and people who run this Organization, inventing teachings and doctrines.
  39. 1 point
    If one of your brothers or sisters told you a lie, what would you do? Wouldn't you approach them about it? Wouldn't you expect them to hear you out, even apologize for lying to you? The GB are just men, no better than anyone else; and who are to be spiritual "brothers" to all. Many anointed ones, and many others, have approached them about their failed doctrine, (failed doctrine is a lie from the outset) about their handling of child abuse, about their assumed title as a "faithful and discreet slave", and about their misinterpretation of scripture. Do you know what the GB does when they are approached? They shut them up, their anointed brothers, by disfellowshipping them. (Matt 24:48-51;John 16:2; 1 John 3:11,12; Rev 13:15 ) That act, is hypocrisy. JWs should see a red flag when realizing this, since it reveals a wicked persona that wields power over one's spirituality. Your scripture, aptly applies here: "Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master (Jesus Christ) he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand" Rom 14:4 The battle we face, is of truth against lies, spoken from the mouths of anointed "kings". (Matt 7:15-20; Rev 1:5; 5:9,10; 12:7; 17:2) Before you, is not only a sparkling, seemingly innocent organization, but a well-hidden deceitful lie. (2 Thess 2:9-12: Rev 13:1,4) Truth is not complicated when we turn to Jesus Christ, who is Truth. (John 14:6; Luke 18:22; Rev 19:11) It's your choice - your decision. “Let the nations be roused; let them advance into the Valley of Jehoshaphat, for there I will sit to judge all the nations on every side. 13 Swing the sickle, for the harvest is ripe. Come, trample the grapes, for the winepress is full and the vats overflow— so great is their wickedness!” 14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision. Joel 3:12-14
  40. 1 point
    This is because I was traumatized when I spotted someone violently attacking a fortune-teller, hitting her repeatedly and hard, and all she did was laugh and laugh. I intervened. “What do you think you’re doing?” I demanded of the assailant. ”Just trying to strike a happy medium,” he replied. Still sure you want me on the other forum?
  41. 1 point
    Nope. I gave the answer to what is "good", according to the Father: "you yourselves, as living stones, a spiritual house, are being built to be a holy priesthood to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ." "But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his possession, so that you may proclaim the praises of the one who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. " 1 Pet 2:5,9 "Don’t you yourselves know that you are God’s temple and that the Spirit of God lives in you?" 1 Cor 3:16 "built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building, being put together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In him you are also being built together for God’s dwelling in the Spirit." "And they sang a new song: You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slaughtered, and you purchased people for God by your blood from every tribe and language and people and nation. You made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they will reign on the earth." Rev 5:9,10 “The one who conquers I will make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will never go out again. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God—the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God—and my new name." Rev 3:12 "I did not see a temple in it, because the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, because the glory of God illuminates it, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it." Rev 21:22-24 "And what agreement does the temple of God have with idols? For we are the temple of the living God, as God said: I will dwell and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people." The true Temple, the "spiritual house", the "whole building" is God's. He does not require the dedication of earthly buildings using the world's assets. I hope JWs can let these scriptures sink into the brain and heart: However, the Most High [the One infinitely exalted above humanity] does not dwell in houses (temple/shrine/sanctuary) made by human hands; as the prophet [Isaiah] says, 49 ‘Heaven is My throne, And the earth is the footstool for My feet; What kind of house (any dwelling place/home/tabernacle/tent) will you build for Me?’ says the Lord, ‘Or what place is there for My rest? Acts 7:48-50 "The God who created the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, because it is He who gives to all [people] life and breath and all things." Acts 17:24,25 Does God need buildings dedicated to Him? No. Does He want buildings dedicated to Him? No. If men in their arrogance decide to dedicate their building accomplishment to God, He won't dwell in them anyway. His Spirit will not be found in a building, because men's ideals and accomplishments transgress His word.
  42. 1 point
    I don't know, I might argue with you on that one.. What I actually said was ....
  43. 1 point
    Excellent article with some clear detail on the matter for those wanting to be informed on the composition and purpose of human breast milk:
      Hello guest!
  44. 1 point
    Words are the tools with which we think. If we use poorly crafted tools, we will have poorly crafted thinking. Perhaps a better set of words would be "consecrate" and "un-consecrate".
  45. 1 point
  46. 1 point
    TheWorldNewsOrg

    Silicone color mixing 🙂

    via .ORGWorld News
  47. 1 point
    Can there be a difference with an invisible being as our sovereign lord Jehovah that we are his witnesses thereof, with that of being a witness to the many miracles made by Jesus as a man. I can’t see the logic with this kind of thinking. Especially when someone judges another as a newbie. Perhaps it’s time to get back on track with the original post.
  48. 1 point
    Reminds me a bit of when the Watch Tower publications declared Rutherford to be permeated with the real Biblical and prophetic spirit, while proposing that a British politician of the time was also like a prophet because he was declaring some of the same rhetoric that Rutherford was declaring. At the time, Rutherford was still trying to overcome the problem that 1914 had failed to be the fulfillment of that time of trouble, and he was pushing for the new idea that 1925 would resolve that problem by being a new time of trouble, and even the time for the physical resurrection of Old Testament faithful men of old to the Millennial age on earth. The Watchtower liked this "prophet" because he said that 1924 was to become even worse than 1914. By 1939 to 1944 it could be said that the true climax of these prophecies about 1924 had come true. Prophet Ramsay MacDonald and Prophet David Lloyd George hadn't predicted a resurrection, though.
  49. 1 point
    Thank you may Jehovah keep on blessing you
  50. 1 point




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