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  1. 4 points
    Outta Here

    Let's Get It On - identify a cult!

    People give their lives for any number of causes without faith in a resurrection. This noble quality of humans is exploited by "cult" leaders regardless of the damage it might do to the individual, and with no thought of benefit to them. Followers are merely pawns. Interestingly, the word "cult" has come to carry a load of meaning and association that has little to do with it's original etymology and derivation. Bit like the word "gay". One current definition that sums up the way many use the word today is "cult = a religion I don't like".
  2. 4 points
    Over the weekend, I was in a circuit way out there in the back hills, and I came to know some of the strange ways of the local elders out there. I learned that when they really got riled at one another, they would spit out out the most spiteful words that they could think of: “May you be assigned to preside in JTR’s congregation!”
  3. 4 points
    No problem Srecko. As long as you know your stupider than me and uneducated about scripture just as much as most people here, We understand each other. 😏
  4. 4 points
  5. 4 points
    Wow! Is there something holding you back from saying what's really on your mind? My father and grandfather attended KM school in Pittsburgh back in the early 70's about a year apart from each other. So I would often hear them compare notes as to what Bro. Schroeder had said on a topic. Schroeder was still of the "Rutherford" school when it came to how the entire world was "inspired" of Satan, which influenced his speech about who would die at Armageddon and why we don't celebrate Christmas, Easter, etc. As part of their training, Brother Schroeder would give them questions that the "Press" might ask them, so elders could practice answers that were "cautious as serpents yet innocent as doves" so to speak. For example: Question: Do you think the Pope will be destroyed at Armageddon? This gets lots of snickers, and a few brothers willing to say, 'Of course he will be destroyed!.' So Brother Schroeder says that, well, we all know the answer, but what do we tell the Press? He recommended saying: Answer: "He'll get what he deserves!" This gets uproarious laughter, and must have been treated as if Jesus had just said "Pay back Caesar's things to Caesar." It becomes kind of a joke between my father and grandfather, so that they only needed to say: "He'll get what he deserves!" when hearing about other infamous happenings in the world (e.g., Watergate, Nixon Impeachment, US Supreme Court on Roe v. Wade, Spiro Agnew). I don't know whether Schroeder himself mentioned people with Christmas trees, but I remember being a bit taken aback that my father and grandfather even applied it for a while to people with Christmas trees, people singing Christmas carols on TV, etc., even though they started to say it in a kind of joking way, knowing that the phrase was getting old. When you mentioned that the Society knew that Christmas was wrong before 1900 but kept celebrating until the late 1920's it reminded me of this. Imagine if Armageddon had actually come in 1915, or 1918, or 1925, as they sometimes expected. In effect, my father and grandfather were saying that Rutherford and all the people in the entire Watch Tower Society would have been destroyed. I can imagine how we, as an organization, would have felt if we knew that certain people or groups who had already stopped celebrating Christmas were looking at the Watch Tower Society at the time and saying "They'll get what they deserve at Armageddon." When it comes to all this judgmental speech, here in this forum, I try to remember to test it by thinking what we would say if we were guests in a Mormon forum, or a Catholic forum. Would you, for example, go into a Mormon-centric forum right now and say that 15 million Mormons (LDS) are all inspired by Satan. (And yes they have had trouble with child sexual abuse and cover-ups.) And because a high percentage of Catholics support the Pope, would you go into a Catholic-centric forum and say that 1 billion Catholics are inspired by Satan. To me, it seems a bit over the top, even though you could probably find a near equivalent problem in the Mormon Church or the Catholic Church for every problem you see among Jehovah's Witnesses. I'm not one to tell you to stop saying whatever you want to say, as you probably feel like a good part of your life was wasted among Jehovah's Witnesses, and I'm sure this drives a lot of the "tone." I am reminded of the "tone" that Rutherford took against the clergy, especially the Catholic hierarchy, and he could rationalize that he was protecting the world from Catholicism -- just as you probably think you are trying to protect the world from Jehovah's Witnesses, or at least to protect a few other Jehovah's Witnesses from themselves.
  6. 3 points
    Here is the weekly material for the next 2 weeks, June 24-30 and July 1-7, 2019. TB MEETING WORKBOOK week of June 24-30 , 2019.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of June 24-30 , 2019.pdf Watchtower June 24-30, 2019.doc Watchtower June 24-30, 2019.pdf Additional Highlights -June 24-30, 2019.doc Additional Highlights -June 24-30, 2019.pdf CBS June 24-30, 2019.doc CBS June 24-30, 2019.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK week of June 24-30 , 2019 text only.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of June 24-30 , 2019 text only.pdf CBS July 1-7, 2019.doc Additional Highlights -July 1-7.pdf Additional Highlights -July 1-7.doc Watchtower July 1-7, 2019.pdf Watchtower July 1-7, 2019.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of July 1-7 , 2019.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK week of July 1-7 , 2019.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of July 1-7 , 2019 text only.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK week of July 1-7 , 2019 text only.doc CBS July 1-7, 2019.pdf
  7. 3 points
    There is a part of me that would like to see the end of counting time altogether. It leads to too many odd situations of doing or not doing something for the sake of accumulating hours or.keeping time going. At present, if I auxiliary pioneer, at the end of the month I write ‘50.’ (Or ‘30’ as the case may be) If I feel bad about it afterwards, I don’t do it again. With a million people in the Branch, if you flat-out lied, it would make no statistical difference. There is nothing sinister about counting time, and the people who carry on as though there is are just being childish, imo. Few bits of counsel are heard more frequently than the counsel not to boast over ‘accomplishments.’ But as a practical matter, even though it exists so as to get an overall picture of what is happening in the ministry, it has its drawbacks.
  8. 3 points
    @BillyTheKid46 Quote " I criticize those that think they have the right to criticize the Watchtower. " What is the Watchtower to you ? What exactly does that word Watchtower mean ? Who runs that Watchtower, who is in charge ? The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania is a non-stock, not-for-profit organization[4] headquartered in Warwick, New York. It is the main legal entity used worldwide by Jehovah's Witnesses to direct, administer and disseminate doctrines for the group and is often referred to by members of the denomination simply as "the Society". It is the parent organization of a number of Watch Tower subsidiaries, including the Watchtower Society of New York and International Bible Students Association.[5][6] The number of voting shareholders of the corporation is limited to between 300 and 500 "mature, active and faithful" male Jehovah's Witnesses.[7] About 5800 Jehovah's Witnesses provide voluntary unpaid labour, as members of a religious order, in three large Watch Tower Society facilities in New York;[8] nearly 15,000 other members of the order work at the Watch Tower Society's other facilities worldwide. Governing Body In 1976, direction of the Watch Tower Society and of the congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide came under the control of the Governing Body, reducing the power of the society's president. The society has described the change as "one of the most significant organizational readjustments in the modern-day history of Jehovah's Witnesses."[53] Following the death of Knorr in 1977, subsequent presidents of the Watch Tower Society have been Frederick W. Franz (June 1977 – December 1992); Milton G. Henschel (December 1992 – October 2000), Don A. Adams (October 2000 – 2014) and Robert Ciranko (incumbent).[50] Adams and Ciranko are considered "helpers" to the Governing Body, which retains authority over the corporations.[54] If this info is correct then the Watchtower is run by the Governing Body. So as bosses of the W/t they are responsible for lies, mistakes, failures, etc of the W/t, and the GB are responsible for lives, and deaths of many people. Your idea of using Watchtower as a cover up, does not work. The Watchtower is known as two things. 1. An Organisation / Society. 2. A magazine. Which ever you see it as it still has to be run by humans, and have leaders. Those leaders are the Governing Body. Therefore that GB are responsible for any good or bad that it produces.
  9. 3 points
    22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
  10. 3 points
    It's quite clear from your words that they are INTENDED to apply only to your agenda. If all four legged animals are horses ... then a cow must, by your logic, be a vegetable. Your Billy-think is fully evidenced by calling JW Insider "?winsider", and thinking his screen name is an affront against God. Using that same logic, Jehovah's last name is .ORG.
  11. 3 points
    Now I was sad to see another of that generation pass away. She did however get to experience the birth pains of this world being from that generation. Gloria Vanderbilt. Too bad Anderson Cooper being gay doesn’t qualify him to see her in paradise if he doesn’t repent. But let’s stay focused on the subject. Don’t change it, just because your arguments are making no sense at all.
  12. 3 points
    Since that was not my intent but yours, its called twisting of other peoples words. The same disgusting tactic used by ?winsider and James. So, let's not pretend you didn't understand the intent. Stop embarrassing yourself. You are wrong now, in as much as you are wrong about the 8 million, that you couldn't justify with your own words.
  13. 3 points
    Encourage is intended to be a broad term. But it is not separate from "Religious Matters." We humans often tend to be foolish and think that turning doctrines into some philosophical/exegetical exercise is somehow more important to Jehovah than justice, mercy, love, humility, etc. The specifics of certain complex teachings or prophetic interpretations are far down on the list of what is important. For the most part those things are not even "religious." As James said: "True religion means looking after orphans and widows in their troubles, and not being like the rest of the world." (James 1:27 - paraphrase) (1 Corinthians 12:29-13:9) . . .Not all are apostles, are they? Not all are prophets, are they? Not all are teachers, are they? Not all perform powerful works, do they? 30 Not all have gifts of healings, do they? Not all speak in tongues, do they? Not all are interpreters, are they? 31 But keep striving for the greater gifts. And yet I will show you a surpassing way. 13 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels but do not have love, I have become a clanging gong or a clashing cymbal. 2 And if I have the gift of prophecy and understand all the sacred secrets and all knowledge, and if I have all the faith so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 And if I give all my belongings to feed others, and if I hand over my body so that I may boast, but do not have love, I do not benefit at all. 4 Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous. It does not brag, does not get puffed up, 5 does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury. 6 It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never fails. But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with.
  14. 3 points
    Here is the material for weeks of June 10-16 and June 17-23, 2019. TB Watchtower June 10-16, 2019.doc Watchtower June 10-16, 2019.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK week of June 10-16 , 2019.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of June 10-16 , 2019.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK week of June 10-16 , 2019 text only.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of June 10-16 , 2019 text only.pdf CBS June 10-16, 2019.doc CBS June 10-16, 2019.pdf Additional Highlights -June 10-16, 2019.doc Additional Highlights -June 10-16, 2019.pdf Watchtower June 17-23, 2019.doc Watchtower June 17-23, 2019.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK week of June 17-23, 2019.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of June 17-23, 2019.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK week of June 17-23, 2019 text only.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of June 17-23, 2019 text only.pdf CBS June 17-23, 2019.doc CBS June 17-23, 2019.pdf Additional Highlights -June 17-23, 2019.doc Additional Highlights -June 17-23, 2019.pdf
  15. 3 points
    In a scholarly world. There are many levels of understanding. There is no one set of rule. However, scripture does contain certain rules. This is why Jesus never became a formal rabbi with scholarly works. He didn’t need to, just like we don’t need to. Here is but a taste of the many variations. So on and so on! However, if you want to pick up the challenge of scholarly works, it will take you decades to understand something that should come natural to a true believer of Christ and God.
  16. 3 points
    I now here you were applying it. I threw myself into the lake of fire for a reason. Witnesses worldwide will need to adapt to the inevitable. There will be no safe place to call our own and a safe house of God. Faith will be the only thing left that all of us will have to comfort each other. Exact knowledge by remembering God's inspired words will once again become the oral word without the use of a Bible. If, anything we should learn from the Nazis era of imprisonment. Those brothers maintained their loyalty without a physical bible to, sometimes the very end. Therefore, let this be a test of your strength as a witness. I can handle the mockery in the same way it's given.
  17. 3 points
    Check and see what comments I have made regarding ill-advised behaviour and statements of others in the past. The offensive behaviour individuals display toward each other on forum space is for themselves to sort out generally. The parameters and guidelines are there for all to apply. Moderators can be appealed to by protagonists if they so wish, and of course moderators can intervene as they see fit. However, slanderous and offensive statements made about millions of decent people worldwide exceed the boundaries of acceptable use of this forum, be it open or closed, that is if those guidelines listed above are still in force. If they are not, then let those who made them rescind them. They have already been set.
  18. 3 points
      Hello guest!
    Is Christendom the Antitypical Jerusalem? In the past, our literature has referred to Christendom as the antitype of apostate Jerusalem. The conditions in unfaithful Jerusalem—including idolatry and widespread corruption—certainly remind us of what is happening in Christendom. However, in recent years our publications, including the one you are now reading, have not taken the type-antitype approach to prophecy except where the Bible provides a clear basis for doing so. Is there a solid Scriptural basis for referring to Christendom as the antitypical Jerusalem? No. Consider the following: Jerusalem was at one time a center of pure worship; later, its inhabitants turned apostate. By contrast, Christendom has never practiced pure worship. Right from its inception in the fourth century C.E., Christendom has always taught false doctrine. In addition, after Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians, Jehovah restored the city to his favor and it again became the center of true worship. Christendom, on the other hand, has never had God’s favor, and once it is destroyed during the great tribulation, it will never rise again. In view of the foregoing, what may we conclude? When we examine Bible prophecies that were fulfilled on unfaithful Jerusalem, we may say, ‘This or that reminds us of what we see in Christendom today.’ But there appears to be no Scriptural basis for referring to Christendom as the antitypical Jerusalem. First, perhaps is about Lexicon, Vocabulary in JW Culture. When JW Church and members talking about "Christendom" they refer firstly or mostly to Roman Catholic Church and all Churches and Denominations that believe In Jesus Christ...but in wrong, false and idolatrous way. But JW consider themselves to be Christians too, but not part of "Christendom" (by this they quote can be consider as Christendom. "....we are Christians who do our best to follow the example set by Jesus Christ and to live by his teachings." -
      Hello guest!
    Why this linguistic distinction is so important to JW? To be, sometimes, called with name "Christians" but want to run miles away from word "Christendom"? Christendom -
      Hello guest!
    noun - English Language Learners Definition of Christendom : people who are Christians : the part of the world where most people are Christians But another thing is of bigger importance. Do you remember how many articles and books and magazines taught you all, over such long period of decades, on so many meetings and congregations baked up with so many Bible verses and Study paragraphs about who is Jerusalem and who is Christendom and all that stuff??!! And now they figured up, they rowed deep, Under Spirit Motivation and Guidance, to tell you how Now there is No Single One Solid Scriptural Basis to believe in that teaching, doctrine, dogma! Do You really believe how Church Leaders and Guardians of Doctrine in WTJWORG know what they are talking about , as those who watch for your souls?!
  19. 3 points
    And please don't forget to say thank you to Darjling when you download a copy. Agape!
  20. 2 points
    WOW! Wahahaat a concept! 1.) ... an Earthly Class ... those of the "other sheep". 2.) ... a Heavenly Class ... those of the Anointed. 3.) ... a Corporate Class ... Watchtower Lawyers and Accountants.
  21. 2 points
    Since you don’t know that it is, why do you bring it up? Next thing you know, you will have everyone at the convention counting their time once a visitor walks into the auditorium.
  22. 2 points
    It is possible that my “dream” could come true. The present tactic of enemies of Jehovah’s Witnesses is to portray the faith as composed of two classes—with the evil “corporate” class manipulating the ones “below.” Just as in a war, strategists might call for killing off the enemy generals, and thus “liberating” the enemy troups who are being evilly manipulated. Of course it is nonsense, just as it is nonsense in a literal war. It doesn’t occur to the presumptuous strategists that the “enemy” soldiers might actually believe in their cause. Or perhaps they know it full well, but they have just hit on a pious-sounding way—posing as the people’s liberator—-to bust up what they don’t like. At any rate, one way to defuse this idiocy is to avoid any perception of the “corporate class” telling the underlings what to do. I believe this is happening now in Europe, where privacy laws enacted against data-collecting are being applied to Jehovah’s Witnesses. Don’t collect data, then, the Branch says, and they provide no direction as to how to do it. Opponents celebrate the blow with which they have struck the Witnesses’ preaching work. If it was the work of men—the corporation “telling” members what to do—they would be right. But if the directive to preach the good news and make disciples of ones who respond favorably is from God (via the Bible), then members can be trusted to devise their own methods for carrying out the work that they believe is the Christian privilege and duty. Maybe the same thing will happen someday with “counting time.” Alexander Dvorkin, the anti-cult ringleader in Russia, said that as far as he knew, Witnesses were required to report their activity to HQ each month—insinuating that it was for the purpose of updating a file kept on each member, instead of simply reporting the aggregate number that it actually is. One way to counter such misrepresentation—whether it be deliberate of just through ignorance—might be to simply not tally the stats centrally. Forget all about counting time. I wouldn’t be sad to see it go, if it did. There are goofy things about counting time. A major one from my point of view is that one can achieve far more productive results during evening witnesses than one can during the weekday, but nowhere near the number of hours. I think it serves to discourage witnessing during these more productive times.
  23. 2 points
    Could it be that "Foreigner", the voiceless phantom who has bad opinions about, and "downvotes" EVERYBODY .... except Billy(Just Weasel)theKid46 .... is a disembodied demon from Hell, or worse, a disembodied Watchtower Lawyer resembling a protoplasmic giant hand, with the stump sitting in a chair, awkwardly manipulating a computer mouse? It's just an idea I had, based on month's and months of evidence. Nothing more ... I would ask "Foreigner" to confirm or deny, but that might prevent Billy(Just Weasel)theKid46 from weighing in on this theory. Perhaps Billy(Just Weasel)theKid46 has "Foreigner" wrapped up in duct tape, and it's the best he can do? It's just an idea I had, based on month's and months of evidence. Nothing more ...
  24. 2 points
    Just piping up here; I agree of course, but I'm sure you will admit that some sort of organizational structure is also necessary, especially with a view to the preaching activity...
  25. 2 points
    Thanks for comment, but I disagree :)) Every Prophet must be "Inspired" for reason to be called A Prophet. If he is not then he is Not a Prophet. In this context when using word Prophets, i guess, is about Bible Prophesies. And as such, Bible Prophets was Inspired by JHVH. Every True Bible Prophets was INSPIRED by JHVH, as they state. But every False Bible Prophets was also Inspired. Don't you think the same? Question is by who? By devil spirit or by Own spirit? Perhaps such person (Christians in general) is just someone Who Repeat Other People Words. And if he, in this repeating of Old Prophets Words going Further, to Let Say: Interpret Prophet's Words by giving Explanation and Time of fulfillment or Way how Words would/will be Fulfilled... than such person or Christians or Organization or Church is .... what? ..... Spirit Led?? :)) As I said in preamble, we can speaking (for now) about 3 sort of spirit: divine, demonic and human. AND ALL THREE have the same quality, they can INSPIRE. And by that reason when GB of WTJWORG said how they are not Inspired, they said wrong. Because they are Inspired ... by some of this three spirits, and also in variation of influence made by this three spirits on people in one Organization.
  26. 2 points
    And yet this word of mouth claim of yours was dealt with the last time we spoke of demographics (twice), and if I recall, you unleash the circus and the mental gymnastics on said notion, an act that can easily be done away with a 3rd time if need be. Elementary stuff, Butler. Also, remember - Jesus was very very knowledge of the Scriptures as a child. In fact, all Jews take up and obverse God's Law very early. It is unknown if you were ignorant and or unaware of this, I advise you look into Shema Yisrael and all things that hang for it. Jesus speaks such for a reason. As is with Jesus, and all before and after him. It did not stop young ones from observing God's Law and reading the Scriptures. Again, if you actually read your bible and took up spiritual wisdom, you'd realize how the Jews operated, including Jesus, but you negate everything when you sibtract what took place before his ministry. Forced, I ask you before to give evidence of this, twice, but this word of mouth falls short. That is like the saying by some who say Christians force children to read the Bible, when in reality it is encouraged to do so. But as was exposed on your account, your folly in the realm of statistics is as great as the light from the sun for discerning ones to see it and give a rebuttal. So where is the evidence in this regard to which was asked but never shown? Remember, Jesus was a very young boy and it was wise in the Law of God, probably beyond both his human parents. He knew very well who his God and Father is and the context of his words found in Luke 2 passage shows, in fact, what one can see by reading and taking in the context and references of Luke 2:41-52 entirely. A Christian parent are to encourage their children to seek the Scriptures and the truth and teachings that it brings, hence why it is said that we must pass on wisdom to the young ones, to teach them, despite being under their parents, the child has his or her choice to take up what is said, whereas the parent, who is of authority can encourage. Even outside of the realm of faith, this also comes in form in terms of education in and outside of the home, for it is no different concerning a child and the Scriptures. That being said, with the you said here after this response of yours, I suggest you better read, understand, and mediate on the Bible, let alone study and teach yourself because the lack is clearly seen, hence your attempted exegesis expressed here. Aside from that overwhelming fact in terms of demographics/adherents is factual over your lunacy, so much as so, even Rook is alluding to the research website that is accurate in terms of the faith group, as is with other faith groups. They would not sully their reputation for your unproven word of mouth info when nearly everyone is knowing of such facts, even the Christian Today folk.
  27. 2 points
    I believe that honor belongs to you. You have said nothing since you started posting. Just meaningless rhetoric from a disgruntled member that can't get his facts straight. Don't become a teacher. You'll only embarrass yourself even worse. Just like a child often does without the proper guidance of a parent.
  28. 2 points
    Read scripture correctly. YOU HAVE CONDEMNED YOURSELF! 😏 Therefore, believe God's words on that.
  29. 2 points
    This is why I criticize those that criticize the Watchtower, Srecko. There is no end to the stupidity here. If memory serves, By corporate law, the GB are responsible for the Watchtower. This of course, doesn't give an accurate accounting of what the role of the GB really is. That's why the Watchtower is run by "many" corporations independent of each other. 🤔 I'm surprised someone as dense as James doesn't know that. An obtuse person like John just flaps his lips to see what will stick. What's even funnier, ?Winsider wouldn't correct such stupidity. 😉 That's why people like James and John are dense legends in their own minds. Meaning, there is nothing between the ears. 😂
  30. 2 points
    (Matthew 13:8, 9) 8 Still others fell on the fine soil, and they began to yield fruit, (Matthew 13:8, 9) 8 Still others fell on the fine soil, and they began to yield fruit, this one 100 times more, that one 60, the other 30. 9 Let the one who has ears listen.” 9 Let the one who has ears listen.” (Galatians 6:4) But let each one examine his own actions, and then he will have cause for rejoicing in regard to himself alone, and not in comparison with the other person. (2 Corinthians 9:6, 7) 6 But as to this, whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. 7 Let each one do just as he has resolved in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. My take: All Christians should be productive, bearing kingdom fruit. Jesus already stated that he knew some would give different amounts, but still their personal 100 percent, if they are doing their best. A Christian's activity should not be held up for comparison with another's. Nothing is wrong with encouragement, though. A goal should be set by the person himself, instead of being prescribed for him. Whatever is done should be between him and God and Jesus who are the Vineyard Owners. Jehovah and Jesus saw the widow's contribution to the temple and were pleased. Ordinarily no one would have noticed. However, we should be obedient to those taking the lead, if they ask one to report time one should report time. Lots of things will be clarified/shown up in the future.
  31. 2 points
    By the way, Billy, are you and Foreigner the same person ? I notice he or she never makes any comments, and downvotes everything everybody else says, EXCEPT YOU, You get an upvote! ....sort of like getting a Telly Award and not having to pay $85 for it. This will be a good test of your basic integrity, as there are several people here ( not me ) who can determine from your Internet Cyber trail exactly where both logins are coming from, and even your operating system and Browser. They ALREADY have all that information. You going to weasel out of this honest, straightforward, and pertinent question .... ..... or reply with an honest YES or NO answer?
  32. 2 points
    When, did the Watchtower specifically state Armageddon would accrue on those years? Now I've read Anna's and ?Winsider's false claims. Are you willing to support their false view? I would have agreed with TOM until he decided to "endorse" and uneducated view of flip-flop view from opposers, that he himself has done in many accusations, just doesn't seem to contrast his argument.
  33. 2 points
    No! I understand, you are desperately trying to capitalize on a selected phrase, and beat it to death like your clumsy attempt was for my avatar. A piranha has to eat. Just know it doesn’t work with me, and you're beating that bush relentlessly without intellectual insight is just more proof neanderthals couldn't have lived with dinosaurs. Much less think of forming script. It might work with dense people like James and John, just not with me. 🤗
  34. 2 points
    For example: Virtually unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses is the idea that when the person dies, the soul dies, for the two terms are synonymous. The dead are non-existent, pending future resurrection. Failing to recognize this leads to teachings that God ‘takes’ people, even children, for his ‘heavenly garden.’ It is a non-comforting slander against Him that may have tripped up even Darwin. Imagine how history might have played out differently had he been exposed to religious truth and not error.
      Hello guest!
  35. 2 points
    ....and anytime there is NEW LIGHT, it shows the GB DID NOT UNDERSTAND SCRIPTURE. ..... except in Billy-Think ... where you can have it BOTH ways at the same time. ... and a MILLION weasel words will not change that.
  36. 2 points
    For who? This all conversation is about GB statement; We are not inspired, Our study on Bible is not inspired, Our articles are not inspired. We can err. Than ... How they could/will be leaded, guided, learned by God and/or by his Spirit if even little piece, little measure of spirit through Inspiration was not/are not "shadow" them? If they not receiving Inspiration from God...All their hard spiritual work is of human source, and result of human inspiration. Or we can go to use this logic. If 20%, 10% or 5% of teachings in WTJWORG is indisputable truth, reason for that is because holy spirit revealed that truth to this human. Revelation comes through Inspiration, i guess. Or, somebody can give other perspective?! If 80%, 90% or 95% of teachings in WTJWORG is harmful chatter, reason for that is .....:)))) we all know the answer, or at least can give a assumption. :))
  37. 2 points
    Yes, well, since you are using the same tactics as James and FBM, it is of no surprise you attempt to twist my words to benefit some delusional ideology. But, if I were to judge as you, I would condemn you and all your kind, such as ?winsider and James. comfortmypeople for accepting your kind of distortion. The ignorance of James and people like ?Winsider has already been explained in another thread with people still around before 1914 and after 1914 with the relative term generations. If you dig a little deeper, and NOT get some dense IM from FBM or James, you will find how foolish you just made of yourself.
  38. 2 points
    justice, mercy, love, humility, etc. This beautiful things you mentioned ... for sure are something that is effect, output (or in Bible terminology Fruit of Spirit) of Inspiration made by Spirit on Human. And also it is something that can Inspire people around you or around somebody who shine with this beautiful wealth/richness. And as i mentioned before, we can look, I am looking, on this in two way. One is: Divine Inspiration in Direct way and in Real time moment made by Power Above. Another is: Divine Inspiration that already Existing in us, in our blood in our cells, from long time ago and waiting for our permission, our will, the right moment of our readiness in our deep soul, to be expressed and to be seen on day light.
  39. 2 points
    Not lying. Mistaken. Mistaken for almost the same reason that any of us --either currently, or in the past-- have believed the GB are a small group of men. When I believed it, I was not lying. It was just a mistake I was making at the time. I would guess that there are easily hundreds or thousands of Witnesses who notice the same thing in their Bible reading as they went through the illustrations of Jesus in context, and have reached through many of Paul's letters. Perhaps others will have already noticed that a leading member of this same Governing Body, F.W.Franz, once argued very coherently and scripturally that we should NOT see the Governing Body as a small council or committee like those apostles and older men in Jerusalem. I don't think I have more insight than the GB, I was convinced by the Scriptural argument of F.W.Franz. But there's a good reason why it would not be plain to them. Long before the Governing Body was defined in 1971, the 7 officers of the Watch Tower Society already realized that they were responsible to represent the entire remnant of the anointed on earth, and found themselves soon leading hundreds of thousands of Witnesses and interested persons. No matter what you think, there IS something special about this particular religion. It is unique as a teaching organization in many ways. I've gone into the specifics in the past, but for now, I'm just making a statement of opinion shared by millions of other JWs too. The GB who find themselves in positions of great responsibility for an organization that is believed to be specifically prophesied about in the Bible, would surely expect that their own position of responsibility must therefore also be prophesied in some way. This doesn't mean that they think they are inspired, only that God's inspiration must have foreseen, not only the fact of this organization, but also some special guidance for its leadership, too. They could have found this in "apostolic succession" as some other religions do. They could have found it in some special new "inspired" prophet as some religions have. They could have decided that a leader was the "angel to the church in Laodicea." They could have seen it in the "the Jew" with 10 men grasping their hem. But they see it in an illustration about servants feeding other servants. Compared to the ways many religions look to give "authority" to a select few, this is actually commendably low-key. But it's still a misuse of the verse. It's an inconsistency based on the March 15, 2015 Watchtower that shows why it is wrong to turn a parable into a prophecy.
  40. 2 points
    Explain, how God has exalted YOU to a position of great responsibility, that YOU will ultimately be judged by God more severely for leading people astray, by making your own definitive claim of superiority and righteousness over everyone else on this forum...that God Himself has not granted YOU by your own actions and behavior. Please. Enlighten me on this marvel. You can live with Watchtower's sins. Many of us cannot. Don’t envy the evil or desire to be with them, for their hearts plan violence, and their words stir up trouble. Prov 24:1
  41. 2 points
    I agree (somewhat). I have no interest whatsoever in attacking people I will never meet, and soon, like all of us ... toooooo soon we will all be dead, and the words we type will evaporate forever. However, when I get hit on the shoulder and a grenade falls into my lap (figuratively speaking), I pick it up and toss it back where it came from. Most of the time the "sender" forgot to pull the pin, but I consider the evil intent, so I pull the pin, and send it back. The amount of lies told about me, and things I have been accused of need to be addressed, AND ANY LIAR AND SLANDERER THOROUGHLY EXPOSED ... which I have done. Common, ordinary self defense. It's an exceptional person who can be hit on the head with a hammer, and reply "OH RANDOM FLUCTUATIONS IN THE SPACETIME CONTINUUM !". However, it does not bother me in the least, as the corrosive interactions merely strip away the veneer of fantasy we all tend to accumulate. Now THAT'S entertainment! Too many rules, and it gets as dull as a cardboard knife.
  42. 2 points
    These can all be separate topics. The WT's NWT Committee is a lot like all committees put together for the purpose of translating the Bible. They never claimed to be inspired, but they had certain criteria in mind for the NWT. One was to be accurate and consistent and also allow a high degree of literalness in the original. Sometimes this literalness even preserves Hebrew idiom. And yes, they had certain ideas about accuracy in mind when choosing words like "torture stake" instead of the Greek "stauros." Translating the Greek word stauros as "torture stake" is not any worse, and might even be better, than translating it as "cross." It depends on the accuracy of the research that went into knowing what a "stauros" really was at the time the Bible was written. The Romans never consistently used two pieces of timber in the shape of the small letter t or T as is often depicted. They definitely did use that form around the time of Jesus, and probably used it a lot, but not consistently. It still might not have been the most commonly used shape of a stauros in Jesus' time. But there is no sure way to know exactly what the shape was for Jesus' execution, because a stauros could take on many shapes. The main thing we know about it is that it was wooden, fashioned from a tree, stake, board, timber, etc., and that no matter what the shape it was used to bring about a torturous (and shameful) death. Even if we knew for sure that the particular stauros in Jesus case was "cross-shaped" it still would not necessarily mean "cross" is the best translation, as it might not get across the full range of meaning implied in the original word "stauros." Same for the word "brazen." The complaint, as I've heard it, is that it hasn't been specifically (and consistently) defined as to how it will be applied in judicial cases that come before a judicial committee (of elders). Unfortunately, this is the same problem with the original word in Greek, so maybe the translation is just fine. It's not much different than the word "immoral" which will have a range of meaning depending on who's doing the judging. And yes, bias is going to happen with all translators. If you have decided that the parousia is a 105-year-long event you will look for rules in Greek that would allow you to say something happens "during" the parousia instead of "at" the parousia. If you are trying to be consistent you should follow through and see if "during" works in all those other cases where you might have more naturally translated the Greek to the English word "at." If the range of meaning supports your own view of a doctrine, you will naturally drift toward those definitions that allow for your doctrine, even if they are not as common. If you had to do this in 10 different places, as our NWT translators did, then it should have given them pause to wonder if they were handling the rules of Greek correctly. But if you are a true believer in the doctrine you will more likely just be comfortably satisfied that the Greek actually "supports" your unique teaching. That's interpretation that can go wrong even when the translation is just fine. Really? You must think the Bible is full of all sorts of esoteric ideas that are required for some rituals that must be performed according to a specific type of knowledge. That's a gnostic way of looking at Scripture. The Bible is actually full of simple ideas that make us happy and unburdened and free. It was easy to understand the Law in Israel that had hundreds of individual rules. Then Jesus taught us how to transition from that old view to a view based on undeserved kindness and love of God and neighbor. This is not something only the anointed can understand. It's not so far up there that it's hard to reach. It actually brings a true conception of God down to us. (Romans 10:5-10) . . .For Moses writes about the righteousness that is by the Law: “The man who does these things will live by means of them.” 6 But the righteousness resulting from faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ that is, to bring Christ down, 7 or, ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.” 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your own mouth and in your own heart”; that is, “the word” of faith, which we are preaching. 9 For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation.
  43. 2 points
    The short answer, Neither! You are looking at the condition by human emotion not through ecclesiastical insight! What is the greater part of, eschatology. No one needs to prove which church holds the greater good by first Christian standards. By and large, the percentage of the overall good is sought after. The first Christian congregations were far from being perfect. The original Israelite's were far from being perfect. But, God gave his approval with confidence to whom? There needs to be a righteous balance. Human condition cannot be at the forefront since we are all imperfect. You are showing God, you don't have confidence in him to make judgment calls on earth. Do you really want to exercise your freewill that way?
  44. 2 points
    Come on! You can do better than that! When I say it, it means behind the keyboard and in real life. I won’t tell you my stories, but when it comes to leading a sheltered life like many ex-witnesses suggest with brainwashing, they would be completely “wrong” with me and the life I have lead. South Korean, Russian, nor Venezuelan witnesses could be in my level. This is why, if you’re going to say 8 million are in league with the devil for following god’s words through the Watchtower? Then you have to believe there are over 8 billion in the same league. That includes us all here. Fair enough on the assumption? Just don’t include the animal kingdom, and ancient aliens.
  45. 2 points
    It is very significant that numbers 6 and 66 are numbers in relation to Bible. Because Bible said how 6, 66 and 666 are numbers in context to something evil, something that is in opposition to God. Who inspired or what inspired people who put 66 letters, books as parts of Bible? The Catholic Bible has 73 Books. (7 more than the Protestant Bible) The Protestant Bible has 66 Books. GB decide to accept Protestant Bible. Were GB inspired, sorry, i mean - were GB guided by spirit in this decision?
  46. 2 points
    Sad to say, I agree with you here. @Outta Here just, like Anna, JWinsider, TOM have the ability to intellectually criticize the Watchtower all they want in private in the JW only forum without any offensive subject matter unless they allow James in on it. 😉
  47. 2 points
    The point to look at is the percentage of the Unchurch versus the traditional church that will be superseded by 2020. The Unchurch is not atheism more so than rejecting traditional religion. A danger with that, Gay rights are included. The fast growing opposition to traditional church doctrine. Even in Russia, legislation is going on, on how to deal with YOGA as a pathway to homosexuality. Another scathing rebuke by the Orthodox Church against the LGBT community in Russia, through the government. Therefore, the support of traditional religion through Bible Principles is no longer in good standing for that type of Christian. While traditional churches voice greater concern for these people that reject in principle scripture as a dead and archaic mythology, it emboldens the devil to enter into the hearts of the conflicted much as the innocence of EVE. From that point on, it will all go downhill fast, until the traditional church begins a stringent prosecution from the masses? Trump is actually helping the cause of the Unchurch. When he wins re-election, he will have sunken the US to a point of no return. More power to him. Therefore, when did the distress of birth pangs begin Matthew 24:8, and what interesting event will be in 202* What I find interesting, is the testimony of members from other religions. I Am a Church Member 2013 Michael and his wife had noticed some changes in the demeanor of Liam in their Bible study group. “Lana and I have decided to leave the church.” The pause seemed to last minutes. Neither of the men seemed to know who should speak next. Michael took the initiative and spoke softly and deliberately. “You want to tell me about it?” Michael inquired. He honestly didn’t know if Liam wanted to say anymore about it. His friend seemed resolute. Nevertheless, Liam began to explain his feelings and decision. “Lana and I went to the church to learn deep truths about the Bible,” Liam offered. “But Pastor Robert is just not feeding us… “But, honestly, Michael, our church is full of hypocrites. Did you hear Jim at the kids’ basketball game? He embarrassed me the way he was screaming at the refs. What kind of testimony is that for a Christian? And of course, everyone knows about Neal. He was supposedly this pillar of the church, and we find out he’s been cheating on his wife for over a year. What kind of church is this with these kinds of people?” Page 24-25 I also finished reading yet another ex-witness book published this year. I wish these people would find something new instead of the same old thing. Shunning, Disfellowship, 1914, Blah! Blah! Blah!
  48. 2 points
    By the way James, before you get your "I have stricken" this part of my statement since it was considered offensive by @Outta Here because of my comment. The intent was behavior. Therefore, I will revise it to " little school girl" 😉 (JAMES) that needs to reject scripture at every turn" to once again signal what I'm choking on again, I'm referring to NOT accepting Biblical interpretation about bad association that you reject, and apostasy that you accept by your friends here that are in need of, serious intervention.
  49. 2 points
    He is from "everlasting to everlasting" which can only happen in a universe that has no beginning, and where time happens all at once. Well I presume God created time as we know it. It is only 'as we know it' because 'man' has divided it and subdivided it, but before man started measuring it, it was happening. It's quite strange to think that before time, before Earth etc, there was God, the Word, the Angels living in another dimension.
  50. 2 points
    Josue2 You are obviously trying to share information which may be valuable. How about I make a deal with you .... you write in English, and I will not reply in Klingon? Otherwise, your efforts are completely wasted on anyone who does not speak French. I spit and yell in Klingon. ..... both at the same time!

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