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Showing content with the highest reputation on 11/20/2018 in all areas

  1. 2 points
    No. Not missing anything on that count. We have already seen from several sources that the patibulum could be tied, or not tied, or nailed or not nailed. The gospel accounts show that Jesus was not nailed until he reached the place of execution. So, whatever he carried sounds like the same process associated with the carrying of the stauros/patibulum. If he carried such a patibulum, then according to the use of the term stauros, he could be said to be carrying/bearing his own stauros/xylon. And if Jesus were nailed to this patibulum, and it was quickly hoisted onto a standing pole, then the pole itself was also the stauros/xylon, because it was used in this type of execution (stauros). If a patibulum were discarded and Jesus was nailed directly to the standing stauros/xylon, then it would still of course be a stauros/xylon execution. If he were nailed to a tree (xylon) or some other gallows (xylon) or complex contraption (xylon) made up of one or more pieces in any of several different directions, it would still be a stauros/xylon execution. The point is that the simplest and quickest of all these optionns, to me, would be to nail him to the stauros/xylon he was carrying and hoist it onto a standing stauros/xylon. This assumption appears to be the simplest way of reading the gospel accounts, and for me, requires the least number of additional assumptions left out of the text. It fits the rushed nature of the judgment, the fact that he was given a stauros to carry, and that he was executed between or among others who were evidently undergoing stauros/xylon executions on the same day. The text doesn't say if he was nailed to the piece he was carrying. It doesn't say if a pole were already standing when he was nailed to it, or if it was on the ground and then hoisted. It doesn't say if a new hole was dug, or how deep it would need to have been. It doesn't say how the pole or contraption was propped up. It doesn't say if a ladder was required, or additional timbers or wedges to prop up the stauros . It doesn't even say if Jesus' feet were nailed, or tied, or neither. The Bible doesn't say Jesus was raised above the other criminals. Maybe he was; maybe he wasn't. I think you are saying that if Jesus were nailed to a crossbeam, the scriptures should have told us that he was also tied, even though we don't even know if Jesus was ever tied to a crossbeam. The Bible does not say that Peter was crucified or executed on any kind of stauros/xylon device. So there is no optic that is even necessarily related to a stauros execution here. (John 21:18, 19) Most truly I say to you, when you were younger, you used to clothe yourself and walk about where you wanted. But when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands and another man will clothe you and carry you where you do not wish.” 19 He said this to indicate by what sort of death he would glorify God. After he said this, he said to him: “Continue following me.” This could just as well refer to a prisoner who is led around or carried around. With stauros executions, the victim was humiliated through complete nudity and could be contorted into obscene positions. So while the expression "stretch out your hands" was often associated with a stauros execution, it can also refer to a person who becomes an "invalid" or perhaps as a prisoner being led about. (This does not mean he was not "crucified." But speculating on the type of stauros is not going to get us anywhere.) I covered this idea already in the first part of the post. There are no known examples of anyone carrying a two-beamed cross, or even a two beamed cross being erected on the spot for an execution. Doesn't mean it could never happen. However a well-researched historical understanding of stauros (n) and stauroo (v) is all one needs to make sense of the Biblical accounts. False religion comes up with a lot of things that make no sense: Christmas trees, Easter eggs, Pyramid measurements, eternal torment, justified warfare, wearing crosses around one's neck, kissing a Pope's ring, etc. The Greek doesn't come out at all when the text is copied from sites like
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    for example. The OCR is pretty good for Latin, of course, but can't handle Greek. All three of the sites I mentioned will give you the "alaxvvrj" that you quoted, when the actual word is αἰσχύνη/αἰσχύνης [from: "endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God" -KJV]. A point of interest on the words used for this type of execution is that in the next century after Jesus, two different words were finally utilized in order to distinguish between a simple stake and a "Latin cross." The word crux (crucis/crucibus) was continued as the word for a Latin cross, and the simple stake was given a different word, rather than the other way around as one would expect if the Watchtower's view were correct. About 100 years after Revelation was likely written, Tertullian says: "You hang Christians on crosses (crucibus) and stakes (stipitibus); what idol is there but is first moulded in clay, hung on a cross and stake (cruci et stipiti)? It is on a patibulum that the body of your god is first dedicated" (Apologeticus, 12.3). "For this same letter TAU of the Greeks, which is our T, has the appearance of the cross (crucis)" (Apologeticus, 3.23.6) And of course, closer to only 50 years after Revelation was written, we have Justin Martyr describing the shape of the stauros: And again the same prophet Isaiah, being inspired by the prophetic Spirit, said, "I have spread out my hands to a disobedient and gainsaying people, to those who walk in a way that is not good. They now ask of me judgment, and dare to draw near to God." And again in other words, through another prophet, He says, "They pierced My hands and My feet, and for My vesture they cast lots." And indeed David, the king and prophet, who uttered these things, suffered none of them; but Jesus Christ stretched forth His hands, being crucified by the Jews speaking against Him, and denying that He was the Christ. - First Apology, Chapter XXXV "God does not permit the lamb of the passover to be sacrificed in any other place than where His name was named; knowing that the days will come, after the suffering of Christ, when even the place in Jerusalem shall be given over to your enemies, and all the offerings, in short, shall cease; and that lamb which was commanded to be wholly roasted was a symbol of the suffering of the cross which Christ would undergo. For the lamb, which is roasted, is roasted and dressed up in the form of the cross. For one spit is transfixed right through from the lower parts up to the head, and one across the back, to which are attached the legs of the lamb." - Second Apology, Chapter XL The Tertullian and Justin quotes were taken from
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  2. 2 points
    Let's boil down to the 'practicality' of this discussion: 1. The Romans are not stupid. They must have figured out after their first few executions that it is very tedious to plant a stake or cross each time somebody is executed. It will be far more easier to use a dead tree or have a permanently planted pole (stake / xylon) and simply raise and attach on top a stauros / patibulum with the condemned nailed to it. 2. A whole cross would weigh well over 135 kg (300 lb), but the crossbeam would not be quite as burdensome, weighing around 45 kg (100 lb). (
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    ) If Jesus was to carry the pole (stake / xylon) only, that would still amount to 90 kg (198 lb) and is no easy task. Carrying the crossbeam (stauros / patibulum) is deemed more realistic. But then, an exhausted person deprived of sleep would easily stumble even on the lighter weight, so that Simon the Cyrene was compelled by the soldiers to carry it for him. 3. While the bible is silent on the details, it is interesting to note that nailing is associated with stauros, and hanging with xylon. Bottom line: there is no conflict on translating stauros as torture stake/stake and xylon as stake or tree. Using the word cross for any of the Greek words mentioned likewise do not give a clear picture.
  3. 1 point
    Outta Here


    Not a joke and not the point. The options presented are simply that...options. The MAIN issue about moral responsibility, which remains, is not offset by others who perhaps fail to meet thiers. It does do and I can see you have a bit of a dilemna, but you seem to be second guessing what you think elders may or may not do. Also you seem to be doing the same regarding the competence of the authorities. You have understandable misgivings on the basis of what you say your experience has been, but in no way do they obviate moral responsibility in this case. Child safety is the issue here. Given your particular difficulties, the Childline number is available to anyone in Devon UK wanting to discuss problems of this nature: 0800 1111. Ambivalence in such matters seeems to be at the crux of your complaints against Jehovah's Witnesses way of doing things anyway, so why not bite the bullet?
  4. 1 point


    John, I understand why you have a dilema, but it still doesn't change anything about reporting all the information you have, even if second, third, or whatever hand, and even if you have heard the father of the victim doesn't want it reported. This is exactly the kind of situation that lands the JW's in trouble for not reporting, because they think about all those things that you are thinking about, and probably more, since they have even more details because they know of the situation first hand. So there may be very valid reasons why they have not gone to the police. But you don't know those reasons, just as you don't know the reasons for them not going to the police in all the other cases worldwide. It can be a lot more complicated that anyone on the outside realizes. But now you have had a some personal insight into how complicated one case can get without even having all the information! But still, it doesn't change why you shouldn't go to the police, even if it means could cause a lot of trouble for not only the perpetrators family, but also the victim and the victims family. So that's why I said hopefully the police will be prudent enough to conduct their investigation in a sensitive way. They may not even do anything, but you will have done your moral obligation from your vantage point: in other words because you are worried about the child.
  5. 1 point
    The relevant portions of Longenecker's Crosses of Pompeii are already available online. Of course Longenecker pretty much demolishes the Watchtower's position, that the cross was not in use by by persons associated with Christian religion prior to Constantine. Notice how the publisher promotes his book on Amazon, The Cross Before Constantine: The Early Life of a Christian Symbol: This book brings together, for the first time, the relevant material evidence demonstrating Christian use of the cross prior to Constantine. Bruce Longenecker upends a longstanding consensus that the cross was not a Christian symbol until Constantine appropriated it to consolidate his power in the fourth century. Longenecker presents a wide variety of artifacts from across the Mediterranean basin that testify to the use of the cross as a visual symbol by some pre-Constantinian Christians. Those artifacts interlock with literary witnesses from the same period to provide a consistent and robust portrait of the cross as a pre-Constantinian symbol of Christian devotion. The material record of the pre-Constantinian period illustrates that Constantine did not invent the cross as a symbol of Christian faith; for an impressive number of Christians before Constantine's reign, the cross served as a visual symbol of commitment to a living deity in a dangerous world. Not looking for anyone's specific view, just good research and good evidence, good history, good linguistic analysis, etc. No one should go into a subject looking for authors who give a specific view.
  6. 1 point
    Sigh .... the chemical industry also makes laundry bleach, and paint, and gasoline. ...and a million other things. You are supposed to be smart enough to not drink laundry bleach, and paint, and gasoline .... and a million other things.
  7. 1 point
    With the latest breakthroughs in artificial intelligence a whole new concept of food may soon radically change what we eat. And at the same time, some experts believe, it could reduce global warming.No longer based on animal ingredients, this is a food entirely based on plants - although it looks and tastes like the classic food based on ingredients derived from animals.This is not a new idea, it has been around for about 10 years.But the breakthrough has been delayed, perhaps one of the reasons is that many consumers still prefer locally produced food, they want to trust the supply chain, and not simply depend on big manufacturers.However, a group of young scientists in Chile are working on alternatives for a sustainable and meatless future.Commercial engineer Matias Muchnick and Harvard research associate Karim Pichara are two of the founders of the Not Company. Together with biochemist Isidora Silva they are developing new plant-based food and are determined to bring it to people in their local market.Part of what motivates them is what they consider to be the biggest drawback of classic animal farming: It requires massive amounts of land and it affects global warming.According to the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization, livestock contributes both directly and indirectly to climate change through the emissions of greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide.Livestock is also a major driver of deforestation, desertification, as well as the release of carbon from cultivated soils. Overall the livestock sector is contributing 2.7 billion tonnes of CO2 emission according to the UN."When you get behind the scenes of the food industry, you don't like what you see. There is a lot of things that we should be knowing... but we are blindsided by a whole industry that is making it really hard for us to see what we are really eating," says Matias Muchnick. The main scientist of the Not Company team is a computer, an artificial intelligence algorithm programmed to become the smartest food scientist in the world.It uses deep learning parameters to understand food at a molecular level, helping the team to deliver tasty and affordable nutrition while using less water, less land, less energy, and without the need to cultivate harmful bio systems like animals.It's a complicated process but it's designed to understand human perception of taste and texture which allows it to suggest clever recipes for sustainable and tasty plant-based foods. And it even understands the availability and use of resources for every single plant in the company's database."We want people to eat better, but without even knowing, that's the main objective of the Not Company," Muchnick says. But does the new model of food production really work? Will it be popular among consumers? What does it mean for the future of food? Are we at the tipping point of a food revolution? The team behind the Not Company talks to Al Jazeera to discuss their work, their goals and their vision for the future of the food industry.
  8. 1 point
  9. 1 point
    A member wanted me to post this question to you all..... Anyone have a list?
  10. 1 point


    That is why I said try to get the police it keep it confidential, because some of those people might get the mistaken impression you are doing this out of a grudge. In any case, if you explain exactly from what source you know this information, then the polic should be wise enough to handle it as possible "hearsay" and tread carefully when conducting their investigation so as not to falsely accuse someone. That is if they are competent.
  11. 1 point
  12. 1 point
    Trotz anhaltender Wirtschaftskrise in Venezuela setzen sich die Zeugen Jehovas im Land weiter aktiv für ihren Glauben ein. Quelle
  13. 1 point
  14. 1 point
    The Librarian

    When Disaster Strikes

    • Have access to the phone numbers of friends, both near and far. • Make and rehearse an escape plan. Know the nearest exits in your building, as well as the emergency plan of your children’s school. Set up family meeting places—such as a school or a library—one nearby and another outside your neighborhood. Authorities recommend that you practice walking with your family to those meeting points. • Plan to help others, including the elderly and the infirm. During—Act Quickly “When fire broke out, most people didn’t panic—they delayed,” relates Joshua, quoted at the outset. “Some turned off a computer or filled a water bottle. One man said, ‘Maybe we should just wait.’” Despite the hesitancy of others, Joshua shouted: “We need to get out of here now!” At that, his coworkers snapped out of denial and followed him down the stairs. “If anyone falls, pick him up and keep moving,” Joshua kept calling out. “We’re all going to make it!” • In a fire. Stay close to the floor, and move quickly to the nearest exit. Smoke makes it hard to see, and most fire deaths are caused by smoke inhalation. Leave behind personal items. Seconds can make the difference between life and death. • In an earthquake. Get under sturdy furniture or next to an inside wall. Expect aftershocks, and get outside and away from buildings as soon as you can. Trained rescuers may not arrive for hours, so try to rescue others if you can. • In a tsunami. If the water suddenly rushes away from the shore, move quickly to higher ground. Expect more and larger waves. • In a tornado or a hurricane. Go to a storm shelter without delay. • In a flood. Stay out of flooded buildings. Avoid wading in or driving through water. Floodwater can contain sewage and conceal dangers, including debris, open manholes, and downed power lines. • Did you know? Two feet [0.6 meters] of moving water can carry a car away. Most deaths in a flood result when people try to drive through moving water. • If the authorities order evacuation, leave immediately! Let friends know where you are, or they may risk their lives looking for you. • Did you know? Text messaging may be more reliable than telephone voice service. • If the authorities direct residents to remain at home or shelter in place, stay inside. In case of an outdoor chemical, biological, or nuclear accident or attack, stay indoors, turn off ventilation, and seal all doors and windows. In a nuclear event, go to the lowest internal part of your building to reduce exposure to radiation. Listen to local TV or radio news. Stay indoors until authorities announce that the threat has passed. Emergency Survival / Preparedness wiki
  15. 0 points


    @Space Merchant Quote : "Plus this should be discussion with those of your circle rather than here" I don't have a circle. Jehovah's Witnesses are 'encouraged' not to socialize with 'people in the world'. That means only mix with other JW's. Hence now that i am no longer a JW i have been completely shunned by all of them. That amounts to well over 100 people locally... 100 people that will not speak to me, not even to say hello. So I have only my wife and son for company. My son is at work most days and my wife spends time with her mum and our daughters and grandchildren. Hence i had spent so much time working at the 'Big House', most days alone. That is why i brought the problem here. Even before i put it up on here I had gone to my bedroom and prayed to God and cried about it. It hurts me, the problem itself, the people involved, and not knowing what to do.

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