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  1. 3 points
    I think this is why the delivering quality of “critical thinking” is overrated. Mob mentality takes over in most disciplines & those vested emotionally and/or financially seek to run the competition off the road. The average person has not the time, patience, or often interest to investigate. Sometimes those in dominance deliberately muddy the waters so that preoccupied ones will throw up their hands and say: ‘Oh, to hell with it! They”re all liars anyway.’ Many things ‘settled’ have been settled by decree. Many things ‘proved’ have been proved by ignoring evidence to the contrary.
  2. 2 points
    Oops. If they expect obedience from their anointed “brothers”, they certainly have “substituted” themselves for Christ, robbing the lowly insignificant anointed of their ability to listen only to Christ. The GB have made it very clear by their Bible translation, using the word "substitute" twice, for emphasis. NWT 2 Cor 5:20 Since they claim to be the only "faithful and discreet slave", who other than themselves can "substitute" for Christ? Matt 24:48-51 In reality, no one. No one can substitute as the Head of the anointed Body of Christ. Another oops. Their false “priesthood”, the elder body, do just that. Haven't you heard of a "judicial committee"? They have the power to kick someone out as a sinner, and feel qualified to discern that God has forgiven a sinner, to allow them back in the congregation. Where have you been?
  3. 2 points
    There are no life forms in the evolutionary record which proves step by step development of feathers or flight etc. Cambrian explosion proves that. Fortunately nano-biotechnology has also proved the evolutionary theory to be a simplistic view of all life. Life is irreducibly complex and "connected" . With the word "connected" I mean this: the eye cannot see without the brain to interpret and why would that part of the brain to interpret develop if there were no eye. There is "foresight" in the development of both organs at the same time .... This proves design and intelligence. So everything is connected in the body. One does not need a biology degree to understand this. The evolutionists were winning the propaganda war a few years back - in schools and everywhere. It is pushed by the UN too - the 2030 agenda wants all children to accept the new morality and reject religion (Christianity). This is why we find pictures of "proven evolutionary frauds" still presented in school books as fact - current text books. Fortunately there is much more evidence available now to disprove the horrible book of Dawkins and other high priests of evolution. Dawkins turned so many people away from the bible.... but I am sad to say he no longer debates any Christians. He just goes on university forums where he an fellow evolutionists discuss the "plausible" side of evolution to his eager fans. I have seen a few debates where he bit the dust against people who are not even biologists. These philosophers managed to show him the logic and interconnectedness or morality with the god of the bible. Thanks for your input. I hope I did not create a "careless" impression by my choice of words. I am never surprised at the wonderful diversity and abundance Jehovah has created. Some dinosaurs could have been ground browsers like chickens, and others could have been water birds. Some could have been carrion eaters etc. I think - personal opinion - when one is right in the center of the group which needs to research and write about these things it can get a little distorted and panicky. I am not surprised - when the above "evidence" of bird evolution was presented without knowing it was a fraud..... they must have been consternated, flabbergasted and concerned - no matter how strong the faith....to present their readers with a logic answer. How do you counteract this kind of evidence? There is no logic to counteract it. One has to wait until the truth about this "evidence" comes out. It is always easier with hindsight to realize one should have waited - not when you are in a difficult situation. Trust in Jehovah is important and even anointed people can lack this at times. They are after all only people....prone to panic and prone to feel the heavy responsibility put on them. The older you are the more difficult too! To give guidance to many people is a large responsibility and when one is confronted with lies - not knowing it is a lie - can be difficult. This is why Jehovah says we must grow to maturity and in devotion but this only grows with experience ..... and time. Jehovah knows we are dust....
  4. 2 points
    I agree that it should not bother us that dinosaurs may have had hollow bones like birds and may have had feathers, and may have even been beautifully colorful. But it can be misleading to claim that the bone structure of dinosaurs falls into two categories: birds and reptiles. Dinosaurs themselves are categorized into "bird" and "non-bird" dinosaurs, but not their bone structures. In fact, the bone structures of the most reptilian theropods have three birdlike toes/claws and hollow bones, and many of them show evidence of feathers, even though they did not fly. The Tyrannasaurus Rex was a theropod. Wikipedia shows the following theropod, stating that it has three toes and hollow bones: And here is the Anchiornis, also a theropod, with the skeletal structure of other theropods, but with feathers: Here is the approximate bone structure of the Anchiornis. It could not fly, just as many species of birds cannot fly. Of course, even if this idea of feathers on dinosaurs doesn't bother us, it sure bothered researchers at Bethel. This is because claims were made that created a kind of logic trap. If you look up feathers and dinosaurs in the Watchtower Library you will find this one reference: *** g 7/07 p. 24 Feathers—A Marvel of Design *** FORGED “EVIDENCE” Some fossil “evidence” that was once loudly hailed as proof that birds evolved from other creatures has since been shown to have been forged. In 1999, for instance, National Geographic magazine featured an article about a fossil of a feathered creature with a tail like a dinosaur’s. The magazine declared the creature to be “a true missing link in the complex chain that connects dinosaurs to birds.” The fossil, however, turned out to be a forgery, a composite of the fossils of two different animals. In fact, no such “missing link” has ever been found. Clearly, the Awake! wasn't ready for a feathered dinosaur. (The forgery was created in China, where true feathered dinosaur fossils would soon be discovered and studied. It was unveiled by National Geographic in October/November 1999, and NG announced the investigation into the probability that it was a forgery about 4 months later, and took until October 2000, a year later, to publish the results of the investigation, with an apology.) The same article also said: Feathers give no indication that they ever needed improvement. In fact, the “earliest known fossil feather is so modern-looking as to be indistinguishable from the feathers of birds flying today.” Yet, evolutionary theory teaches that feathers must be the result of gradual, cumulative change in earlier skin outgrowths. Moreover, “feathers could not have evolved without some plausible adaptive value in all of the intermediate steps,” says the Manual. Further, if feathers developed progressively over a long period of time, the fossil record should contain intermediate forms. But none have ever been found, only traces of fully formed feathers. “Unfortunately for evolutionary theory, feathers are very complicated,” states the Manual. The perfection of feathers is just one problem for evolutionists, for practically every part of a bird is designed for flight. For instance, a bird has light, hollow bones . . . The fossil feather is from archaeopteryx, an extinct creature sometimes presented as a “missing link” in the line of descent to modern birds. Most paleontologists, however, no longer consider it an ancestor of modern birds. Of course, contrary to the above claim, most paleontologists do consider the "bird-dinosaurs" to be an ancestor of modern birds. Those necessarily lighter, hollow bones have also been verified throughout many dinosaur species, and now even the evidence of only partially formed feathers has been seen, which the Awake! magazine had called "intermediate forms" and suggested that such a find, if it ever happened, would indicate evidence of evolutionary theory. It would have been better to just accept that there might be hundreds of new discoveries indicating a variety of life created for purposes we cannot yet understand.
  5. 1 point
    10. Child abuse is a serious sin. If an alleged abuser is a member of the congregation, the elders conduct a Scriptural investigation. This is a purely religious proceeding handled by elders according to Scriptural instructions and is limited to the issue of membership as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. A member of the congregation who is an unrepentant child abuser is expelled from the congregation and is no longer considered one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. (1 Corinthians 5:13) The elders’ handling of an accusation of child abuse is not a replacement for the authorities’ handling of the matter.—Romans
  6. 1 point
    Why cant the policy state to take it to the police first? Who is more trained to handle these types of situations? Elders/police?
  7. 1 point
    I certainly hear you. My concentration level has never been good. I'm always asking in prayer for the ability to discipline my mind and keep it on the right track. I believe it's called "ADD".
  8. 1 point
    Luke 10 v 21 In that very hour he became overjoyed in the holy spirit and said: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved. This seems to show that 'higher education' was not needed to learn, understand and teach, the truth from God, at that time. It seems to be a well know thing within the JW Org and by people outside of same, that JW's are 'told' not to aim for higher education. I say told, although some will say strongly advised, with a possible caution of being disfellowshipped. Now I've noticed on here recently that deep conversation about many things has been and is taking place. Politics earthwide. religious beliefs earthwide and the latest thing seems to be Evolution (from a very deep standpoint ). ( These things were never taught to me at school. ) I left school at 15 years old, as soon as I was able, for reasons previously mentioned. Here in UK now teenagers have to remain in education until they are 18. The three years from 15 to 18 seem to me to be almost 'higher education', but compulsory. How much they learn at school now I've no idea. My feelings are, and yes ok i cannot put proof to these feelings, but, my feelings are, that all forms of higher education are advised against by the GB and the JW Org. Some of you may have some proof of this in writing. So, where does this leave JW's ? If a young person leaves school to go into full time 'service' ministry, they do not get a higher education. Their 'basic' education may have been just that, very basic. They are then not 'qualified' to talk to others on a higher education level, and this might even be to the point of not understanding such things as are being discussed on here lately. ( Much of what is being discussed leaves me miles behind. I'm a very simple person. Plus at 69 I forget more than i learn. Yes I do write lots of notes and have books for recording different things, but the mind boggles. ) With respect for those I knew and loved in the past, within my ex congregation, many of them were 'simple country folk'. And I think Tom said about not having the time or inclination to do research online or or otherwise. So let us go back to the scripture at the top. So many questions. Does God reveal more to those of a lesser education ? Is higher education and greater knowledge a disadvantage when wanting to serve God properly? Or is it that those of higher education are too stubborn to learn God's way ? Too proud maybe ? There are many things that the Bible doesn't tell us. is that deliberate ? Does God want to keep it simple for us ? So, should we pursue more knowledge about worldly things ? A problem may occur when talking to others about God, in that they may have more knowledge on a certain subject than we do and therefore believe something different. Should we then educate ourselves to their level on the same subject, or just pass them by ? Bearing in mind the scripture at the top of this page. There has to be a balance of course. But my feelings are that the GB would like JW's to be educated only by the Watchtower studies and by the 'workbook' evening meeting studies. And of course by personal Bible reading. But do JW's do as they are told in this respect or do a lot of them 'educate themselves', or take further education elsewhere ?
  9. 1 point
  10. 1 point
    I will set some time aside to look deeper into all this. My concentration level is not good, but i will make time to follow the links and research. Thank you.
  11. 1 point
    "from wise and intellectual ones" Kingdom Interlinear translate this with "from comprehending ones" Definition of comprehend
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    transitive verb 1: to grasp the nature, significance, or meaning of unable to comprehend what has happened 2: to contain or hold within a total scope, significance, or amount… philosophy's scope comprehends the truth of everything which man may understand …— Henry Osborn Taylor 3: to include by construction or implication Does not prudence comprehend all the virtues?— Thomas B. Silver Our civilization comprehends great variety and complexity …— Perry Meisel 4: to understand (something, such as a difficult or complex subject) 5: to understand (something, such as a difficult or complex subject) By this, in my comprehending of issue :))), Jesus say nothing against Education in human Society. GB has made wrong understanding and interpretations about this verse. Even if we using NWT Translation, here is nothing for Bible readers today, to say how Education is wrong. WT has completely erroneously using this verse for purpose to promote false teaching. Definition of intellectual (Entry 1 of 2) 1a: of or relating to the intellect or its use b: developed or chiefly guided by the intellect rather than by emotion or experience : RATIONAL c: requiring use of the intellectintellectual games 2a: given to study, reflection, and speculation b: engaged in activity requiring the creative use of the intellectintellectual playwrights
  12. 1 point
    Did you know that the anointed who are under covenant with God are referred to as “gods”? They are “living stones” of God’s Temple. 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17 They are the firstborn/firstfruits sons of God. If they become one with Christ as his Bride, would they not be gods?
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    I said, "You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High. Ps 82:6 John 10:34-36 - "Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’? If he called them ‘gods,’ toward whom the word of God came — Those who received the word of God were God's people under covenant: Jude1:3; Matt.25:14; 13:11; 11:25,27; 16:17; 1Cor.4:1,2; 2:10; 1Pet.1:12,25; Eph.3:10; Isa.53:1; Amos3:7; Gal.1:11,12; John3:11
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    and Scripture cannot be set aside— what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? John1:14,9; 18:37; 7:16; 12:49
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    Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?" John 10:34-36 The page number is my mistake. I am sorry. It is in Chapter 18, under the subheading of “The Meaning of your Baptism” starting on page 182. Paragraph 24 is where the quote comes from. There is a web page that I have given you. It has thousands of visitors each day who read and learn. Most do not state their name, because Christ knows who the faithful are, who are hungry and who want understanding. Yet, on that page are links to facebook pages, where many members are gathering by name. Not all member are believers, as quite a few are still staunch JWs. The food is offered, free for the taking. It is up to the heart’s desire to either continue taking in spiritual food or to leave it behind. It is the Marriage Feast. Rev 22:17
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    We should remember that those whom God calls to expose the sins of His people, are lowly and despised. They are despised by their own people. Many will not recognize them. 2 Pet 3:4; Luke 19:41,42, Jer 13:17; Matt 13:15; Mark 4:12; Ezek 12:2; Rev 3:3
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    The “movement” begins with one individual – Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Elijah, Moses, Micah, Hosea, John the Baptist. Jesus promised that “Elijah” would restore “all things”. Matt 17:11; Dan 12:4; Rev 11:1-3 What would this one restore? Truth, that “living stones” are to make known. What does this one reveal? Lies, that false prophets have taught to seduce “living stones” and companions. Teachings, that the Temple Body of Christ must come together in unity, which will be manifested in the Kingdom.
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    &version=NKJV To serve God properly does not take a regimented organized commitment to men. That is influence from Satan’s realm. Jesus has nothing to do with Satan’s type of “organization”. God has already organized His form of worship, His Temple, beginning with the foundation stones and the cornerstone, Christ. 1 Cor chapter 12; 1 Cor 3:11; Eph 2:19-22
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    It requires a desire of the heart to want to align itself with God’s decrees in Christ, and it takes earnest effort. This is how we worship in spirit and truth, relying on the Father and Jesus’ help in spirit, to lead one to truth which those whom Christ sends (not whom men appoint), provide. John 4:23,24; John 13:20
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    It is the Great Tribulation – different from all other spiritual difficulties God’s people have experienced throughout history. Matt 24:21 Your struggles show it; you are in the process of sifting the truth from the lies. If God chooses a lowly woman to bless with Holy Spirit and reveal the sins of His people, who are we to question His actions?
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    For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; and the base things of the world and the things which are despised, God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are that no flesh should glory in His presence. 1 Cor 1:26-29 “base things” can mean, “of no family, a man of base birth, a man of no name or reputation” Pearl certainly had no reputation in the organization, as do most anointed ones, as well as myself. You will know if what one teaches is truth, if everything that person says is backed up with God’s Word and teaches what Christ taught, just as the apostles did. You already notice the oppression of the anointed in the organization, the trampling of God’s “Temple” by elders Matt 24:14-16; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3 It is a “disgusting thing” that we are to flee from – and we go the “mountains”, “Israel”, represented by the anointed “living stones” of God’s Temple/Zion. The “prophesy” that “Elijah” trumpets, is to these “mountains”, to leave their captivity and return to their Head, Jesus Christ. Matt 25:1 And it is to those restored "mountains"/hills, where those leaving the “city”, go, who desire to join the Marriage Feast. Matt 22:4
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    (See Ezekiel chapter 36
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    ) The links are to scriptures, which hopefully make it easier to read them. Rev 18:4-8 - And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. 6 Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her. 7 In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow; for she says in her heart, ‘I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.’ 8 Therefore her plagues will come in one day—death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her.
  13. 1 point
    As to my knowledge, Judicial Committee will not disfellowshipp somebody because he/she going to University. But if father of such child is an elder some questions can be directing to him. Sometimes congregational environment, details of group interrelations, fundamentalism of some prominent individuals (elders) can be involved on how such persons will be treated. Some young bro or sis parallely going to University and pioneering. By that they softening some "attacks" and "disarm" those who would try to complain. General JW policy is against Higher Education, and that is evident from official statements in publications and public talks.
  14. 1 point
    I laughed out loud when those Jurassic Park Pterodactyls lunged at the children clamboring amidst the ceiling tiles & my kids gave me a dirty look.
  15. 1 point
    Dear Felix, your gave your trust in "noble man" of GB. JW believe how only They are anointed to making interpretations on Bible text. I am not making "criticism" about WT but have Critical Thinking about WTGB doctrines and policy. My name is Srećko, in English Lucky, Happy and Successful, Latin is Felix :)))) Important!! Read this 3 times every day, every 8 hours, as antibiotic cure :)) Then Joseph said to them, “Do not interpretations belong to God?
  16. 1 point
    To me, you do not give the impression of being careless at all. I get the impression you have not only been careful but very thorough in looking for evidence defending creation. And not just from a single source but clearly by being selective among some of the best ideas from many sources, which also means rejecting bad ideas. I think this is great! What I did hope to convey was the difficulty we have in simply re-interpreting every bit of existing evidence into a simple version of creation. All of us tend to do this because most of us want simple answers. A good scientist should look at ALL the evidence related to her or his branch of science and continue to readjust an overarching theory that fits every bit of it, including all the anomalies. We can't really make a good counter-claim in defense of our own position until we have done the same. As TTH above has said: More importantly, we can't "judge" the conclusions of individual scientists, if they are based on a cache of thousands of pieces of evidence that we have not ourselves been able to explain. As TTH aleady added: Creationists have unprovable theories, too. We often invoke the problems of the unknown antediluvian atmosphere to counter evidence from Carbon 14 that appears to measure things fairly well back to 50,000 years. But our counter theory is not proved at all. It's just our own conjecture (actually the conjecture of previous fundamentalists). That the air pressure was different during a time of pterodactyls is also an unprovable theory. That the entire earth was a temperate, tropical climate is also unprovable. We do have a small piece of evidence in favor of our theory in the Bible, but there are no details provided in the Bible, so some Witnesses and a lot of Fundamentalists simply impose a lot of conjecture upon the "water canopy" theory. In fact, the water canopy theory is very weak. From the standpoint of physics, the claims made for it are not even possible. So we are really invoking a kind of "miracle" that held a theorized "band" of water in the sky. Even the evidence from the Bible on the "water canopy" is not definitive. For one thing, you can see from the footnotes in the NWT that the word translated heavens is actually the same word for "sky." Genesis 1:1 is really saying: "In the beginning God created the sky and the earth." And this word for "expanse" in Genesis 1:7 is apparently just a reference to the visible sky that holds the rain clouds above us. We can't really say for sure that this separation of the waters and the waters is any more than just the fact that Jehovah made it possible for water to be both on the surface of the earth and also high above our heads in the form of water vapor in the form of clouds. A reason for saying this is that Proverbs apparently replaces the idea of this water separation, merely with the word for "clouds" when referring to the major milestones of the earth's creation: (Proverbs 8:28) . . .When he established the clouds above, When he founded the fountains of the deep, And rather than support the theory that this separation of the waters disappeared at the time of the Flood, Psalms says it's still there: (Psalm 148:3-7) . . .Praise him, sun and moon. Praise him, all shining stars. 4 Praise him, O highest heavens And waters above the heavens. 5 Let them praise the name of Jehovah, For he commanded, and they were created. 6 He keeps them established forever and ever; He has issued a decree that will not pass away. 7 Praise Jehovah from the earth, You great sea creatures and all deep waters, In fact, just like Proverbs referring to these waters as clouds, Psalms (see also Job) also credits these waters from above as the "rain" that continued to make things grow during the days of the Psalmist: (Psalm 104:12-14) . . .Above them roost the birds of the sky [heaven]; They sing among the thick foliage. 13 He is watering the mountains from his upper rooms. With the fruitage of your works the earth is satisfied. 14 He is making grass grow for the cattle And vegetation for mankind’s use, To grow food from the land. (Job 38:36, 37) 36 Who put wisdom within the clouds Or gave understanding to the sky [heaven] phenomenon? 37 Who is wise enough to count the clouds, Or who can tip over the water jars of heaven? (Psalm 147:8) . . .The One who covers the heavens with clouds, The One providing rain for the earth, The One making grass sprout on the mountains. In fact, based on similar texts and language used in other near eastern ancient documents the idea of this sky/expanse was the vault or dome that held the clouds above, and allowed the stars to shine through at night. Amos, too, shows it had not disappeared, and that it included the process by which sea water was turned into rain water. (Amos 9:6) . . .‘The one who builds his stairs in the heavens And establishes his [dome, vault] over the earth; The one who summons the waters of the sea, To pour them out on the surface of the earth —Jehovah is his name.’
  17. 1 point
    I do not understand your position Arauna. You using so called "scientific" names, words, evidences .... but have big doubts about science and scientists. Well, why you talking about Cambrian period when you in your title put clear statement that send your strong belief how millions of years about fossils (and not only about fossils but all other things about Earth and Universe) is something impossible because Bible not support such view. Previous you said, quote: "It is a totally unscientific statement and even if you say you are a scientist 1000 times, it does not make you a scientist..." and "There are many kinds of scientists" Cambrian Period, earliest time division of the Paleozoic Era, extending from 541 million to 485.4 million years ago. The Cambrian Period is divided into four stratigraphic series: the Terreneuvian Series (541 million to 521 million years ago), Series 2 (521 million to 509 million years ago), Series 3 (509 million to 497 million years ago), and the Furongian Series (497 million to 485.4 million years ago).
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    You give us impression you don't accept how fossils are millions of years old but you say this: There are no life forms in the evolutionary record which proves step by step development of feathers or flight etc. Cambrian explosion proves that. Many JW still believe in 7000 year period of Creative days. Here, you want to prove how Evolution is impossible because Cambrian explosion of life proves opposite. But in same time forget how Cambrian period last (happened - edited), few hundreds millions years, according to scientists. Well, 7000 years against millions of Cambrian years. What would you chose in fact, what you want to chose today?
  18. 1 point
    Oh dear I think I've hit a nerve of yours. But you were saying about my pointless criticism so I thought I'd show you a criticism that had complete truth in it.
  19. 1 point
    Are you still that far behind, catch up. We finished that part of the discussion hours ago. you can use that word if it so please you. Doesn't make it right .
  20. 1 point
    Different topic. Stick to this one, or do a new post for it.
  21. 1 point
    Um, offended I don't think so. I find you amusing actually. I'm happy that you read my posts though. And this is just a forum, it is not guided by Holy Spirit, so letting off steam is ok. Do tell me though how my criticism of the GB and it's JW org concerning Child Abuse has failed ? I think it is the GB that have failed to protect the congregation Earthwide. As for discussion, we don't ask you to take part in it. If you find it pointless then please don't bother us again.
  22. 1 point
    As for your argument about perfection. Consider the other definition that is associated with Christianity, not common usage.
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    Therefore, the word accordingly is an abstract that can be used as relative.
  23. 1 point
    It seems something offended you. I have seen many of your other posts. I wouldn't retaliate either or be pathetic about it.
  24. 1 point
    Then I can only say, what are you doing here? Scripture is meant for those that follow Christ, not become retaliatory to let off steam. If you have insight about scripture with a better interpretation, then, by all means, let’s hear it. This idea of criticism by you and Bultler has brought nothing but failures in understanding. We are all adults. But there is a difference between being a human grownup, and being a spiritual child that matured. Let’s get off meaningless criticism and concentrate in fundamental in Bible truth if you wish to learn. If not, then there is no need for further discussion.
  25. 1 point
    I won't be pathetic enough (unlike some) to start calling you names or retaliate to your last comment. The scripture i quoted still stands. It is from God's word and accordingly does not appear in it. In my opinion the scriptures were written only for the Anointed to FULLY understand. Yes of course we of the earthly class can understand much of it, but not all and not fully. The TRUE Anointed obviously have a much closer relationship with God and with Jesus Christ. Hence the scripture 'ten men clinging to the skirt of a Jew', spiritual Jew of course. The Anointed But the whole point in question is, are the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses 'perfect' ? That is, perfect in the way that Jesus meant in that scripture. And the answer has to be NO. As can be seen by their actions and words. You may say it's not my place to judge, but we have to judge to know whom we should follow. I think that brings us back on topic. The GB pretending to be things they are not. 1. They cannot be Anointed 2. They cannot be the Faithful and discreet slave.
  26. 1 point
    Teaching and inspiring, about this issue, is job for Spirit, not for me to care about. Because Word we talking about aka Bible aka God's and Jesus's teaching are not came in existence with my birth day. If you believe in Bible reports about Power of Spirit who made that people speaking various languages and in that way give testimony about God, then you can put your trust in this same Spirit. This Spirit, i suppose, is able to overcome language barriers, you talking about, because this same Spirit was causing language barriers in humankind before many centuries, according to Bible report. People run Corporations (GB run WTJWorg inc.) but I am not sure that Holy Spirit have interest to run any Human Corporation. I would rather be ready to believe how Holy Spirit wish to run human hearts. By such influence, on people's hearts .... all your doubts can be explained. :))
  27. 1 point
    Then you cannot appreciate what scripture is actually relating to us mortals.
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    If you wish to bring in scriptural understanding with the old Greek Classic, versus the Koine Greek, if you have experience with linguistics, then, by all means, let’s discuss this matter through intellectual understanding. From the textus receptus, Latin Vulgate, or whatever codex you wish to use. Even the Westcott and Hort. Since Srecko failed to reply on how his wisdom is above all others, then I can only stipulate this is your idea also. Logic, as seen through the definition, brings in many afterthoughts. The word perfection is not intended as you describe it. If we do, it loses all credibility to what is intended through scripture. This is a fundamental flaw in understanding. We can only imitate perfection, not become it until after Armageddon. To an extent, you and Srecko have become what the post is.
  28. 1 point
    Let’s ask the question. How would you go about teaching and inspiring over eight million witnesses and about twenty million interested parties? Remember, there are language barriers and scriptural interpretation to consider. Have you ever run a corporation? You place your self above all the anointed. Can you explain how Jah gave you this higher spirit?
  29. 1 point
    Then you would agree there is a need to comprehend what is before us. Especially when it relates to definitions of particular words. This prevents us from thinking we can be perfect instead, try to imitate perfection by following in Jesus footsteps. Do you honestly believe you are perfect according to the word, perfection? Even if we comply with every instruction given by Jesus and the commandments given by Jah can we remove our sinful state? This can be illustrated by the conduct here of a failure to meet Christ standards of perfection. Ephesians 4:22-32 This is why Jah continues to give us a chance to redeem ourselves from a sinful state. Meaning as imperfect humans. Romans 5:8 What is one of the prerequisites to maintain that appearance of sinless state, if not with obedience?
  30. 1 point
    I know this was to Srecko, but I was thinking the same thing. It's nice to have a unified message. And to answer the next part of your points, I think that this particular forum provides a answer, of sorts, to see the expected results of such an experiment. It could be chaos, but need not be. All of us can have our own opinions as long as we respect the doctrines promoted by the the Governing Body. The Governing Body would be respected for the number of years they have spent in Bible study and teaching and therefore "worthy of double honor." There are many ways to manage both personal opinions and respect the currently accepted doctrines held by the majority. One way is for all of us to try to remember to always make sure people know we are expressing our own personal opinion even if we personally have absolutely no doubt about the correctness of that opinion. Many people have already come on this forum in the last few years, presenting themselves as JWs, and all the while making sure predictions about end-time events they expected in the next few months. All of them will surely be just as wrong as everyone else has been for these last 2,000 years. And if we are just exploring an opinion we should be clear that we are anxious for others to share any clarifying, supporting, or non-supporting evidence to add to the discussion. The Governing Body should also be willing to express any current doctrine in terms of its probability according to the best evidence they have accepted, and if they are rejecting more evidence than they accept, they should explain their reasons for rejecting the majority of the known evidence. The Governing Body has already done this on several minor teachings, and I always find it refreshing. In other words, every single doctrine we have, need not be expressed as an unchangeable dogma. Everything can be expressed as a current belief based on the evidence we currently accept. There would NEVER be an embarrassment over the past, and the new level of open-mindedness would result in more input from persons who run across new evidence all over the world.
  31. 1 point
    Not only that, but perfection is relative.
  32. 1 point
    If you don't mind i would like to provide little reminiscence about context in comment of your's. 3 What does Jesus’ illustration about the faithful slave mean? In the past, our publications have said the following: At Pentecost of the year 33, Jesus appointed the faithful slave to care for his domestics. Since then, the slave is all anointed Christians as a group who live on earth at any one time. The domestics are these anointed ones as individuals. In 1919, Jesus appointed the faithful slave “over all his belongings,” everything on earth that is used to support the Kingdom preaching work. But after carefully studying this subject, praying about it, and meditating on it, we realized that our understanding of Jesus’ words about the faithful and discreet slave needs to be changed. (Proverbs 4:18) Let us discuss the illustration and how it affects us, whether we have the hope of living in heaven or on earth. source:
      Hello guest!
    Right from the start, it is very important to note what the GB says about how (process) the interpretation of the Jesus words/text has changed. They give this explanation: "But after carefully studying this subject, praying about it, and meditating on it." As we clearly see here, there is no single word about influence by Holy Spirit.They not used phrases as "we have been guided by HS" ,or "we have been motivated by HS" and because influence from God's Spirit we made this (small, big, important, not important) changes. They just done 3 things that every average and responsible JW member (or even JW kid) doing every day. What is it? A) carefully study Bible, B) pray about, and C) meditate. !!!! NOTHING more or less! But it seems how only GB is authorized to change understanding, globally, for all 8 mil JW members. According to WT credo, single JW is not authorized to change own understanding in this very same process that was described in WT magazine and other places in publications. If JW rank and file member dare to change established and official understanding of some GB doctrines, then he/she will be given a lesson and correction, rebuke or discipline. Confession and repentance are expected, or, he/she coming to be an apostate and dangerous individual in spiritual paradise. But when GB doing the same thing, no one of them have to show the humility of this kind. No one is above them to "rebuke" their inappropriate behavior. GB expressed false humility by word "we", but "we" almost always have one meaning - all JW community ... ... and GB pushing COLLECTIVE FEEL OF GUILT FOR ALL WRONG EXPECTATIONS and WRONG INTERPRETATIONS. Now, back to the FDS of Mathew. “IF EVER THAT EVIL SLAVE . . .” Jesus has given the faithful and discreet slave an extremely important responsibility. He has appointed this slave to care for the domestics and to give out spiritual food at the right time. Jesus said that those with greater responsibility have more expected of them. (Luke 12:48) So he ended his illustration about the faithful and discreet slave with a serious warning. Jesus warned about an evil slave who believes that the master is taking too long to return and who starts to beat the other slaves. When the master arrives, he will punish that slave in a very severe way.—Read Matthew 24:48-51. Was Jesus foretelling that there would be an evil slave class in the last days? No. It is true that some individuals have shown an attitude similar to that of the evil slave described by Jesus. We would call them apostates, whether they were of the anointed or of the “great crowd.” (Revelation 7:9) But these ones are not an evil slave class. Jesus did not say that he would appoint an evil slave. His words here are actually a warning given to the faithful and discreet slave. Notice that Jesus begins the warning by saying “if ever.” These words show that what Jesus next described would not necessarily happen. It was as if Jesus was saying: ‘If the faithful and discreet slave were ever to treat the other slaves cruelly in these ways, the master would punish him severely.’ (See also Luke 12:45.) But the faithful and discreet slave as a group has continued to stay alert and to give out spiritual food of good quality. The anointed brothers who make up the faithful slave realize that their Master expects them to take good care of his domestics. These anointed brothers sincerely desire to care for their responsibility loyally so that when the Master finally arrives, he might say to them “well done.” By this explanation GB class say: In today WTJWorg organization there is no evil slave class. Only some individuals outside of GB class members, will show an attitude similar to evil person slave. Well now, what are the Jesus words? Imagination, fantasy, parable, illustration, prophecy, good night story, moral lesson, reality in 1 century, reality for all centuries in future time, impossibly thing to ever happen, exemption only in some rare situations, ...? "...logical fallback position - from a human standpoint at least." Of course, human standpoint is only one we have always with us every day, after all :))) And beside plan a, it is also good to have b,c,d... But in that way of functioning we recognize and confess how points A) carefully study Bible, B) pray about, and C) meditate is mere human process with rarely moments of Inspiration (on single personal level) that come Above. In GB class case that rare moments of (private level or class level) Inspiration from Above not coming on them at all, because they loudly claiming; "We are not inspired!" To recall again on what WT magazine has wrote; as individuals, GB members are not FDS, as group who sitting together in one room they are FDS. Resume of such WT quotes/statements can be this: 1) as Private Person GB member is as every average JW who have no influence on Organization Moves. 2) as Collective Class GB members are doing the same thing with same result as every average JW member with one exception. And that is siting, reading, praying and meditate and making decisions where and how Organization will go . In both case outcome is the same -- "uninspired" decisions. I personally would not say how some sort of Inspiration from Above never came on me (in what ever issue). But, such personal feelings is in sphere of own interpretations/speculations what is/was happening. So, it can be true and/or false/illusive. Or some sort of mixed, unknown definition about what we going/went through. And would I made that as credo, doctrine that have to be reality for other people and their lives, about how Bible text come to fulfillment in my/their life?
  33. 1 point
    I understand, especially since the GB has tainted everything about Christ’s Truth. 1 John 4:1 - "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see if they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world." The anointed are compared to trees and their “fruit”, or teachings - “Be on your guard against false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves. 16 You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?17 In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit. 18 A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit. Matt 7:15-20 It takes effort on our part, to find the good trees. With God’s Holy Spirit, we will be able to discern “good fruit” from the “bad fruit”. You are already on your way to doing just that. Pearl Doxsey has a “Personal File”. At the bottom of that page, she describes her anointing experience. pearl - personalfile . blogspot . com
  34. 0 points
    So you are esentally saying that every Witness should be able to preach their own ideas to other Witnesses, and out on the ministry. How do you envisage that in practice? I mean give us an example of how this would operate.
  35. 0 points
    I don’t ‘like’ @JW Insider‘s comments too much because he usually manages to slip in a bit of mischief that I’m not too sure about, even if I don’t immediately spot it, so I don’t want to leave a track record as an ally. Having said that, Man! is he ever making good sense here...and the patience displayed...the angel on my right shoulder is saying: ‘Why can’t you be like that, TrueTom?’
  36. -1 points
    I noticed 46 "shares" of this comment, Srecko. Seems to me that people are recognizing GB's hypocrisy enough to pass it on.
  37. -1 points
    GB famous phrases are: "we are not inspired but we are guided, motivated"... and... with self invented/claims: "JHVH trusts us, Jesus trust us".....they ask YOU to trust THEM. And JW members, in general, not see trap and snare by what GB try to enslave human minds. 2. (a) Who is “the faithful and discreet slave,” or “the faithful steward”? (b) How has the slave established a fine record of “following the Lamb”? 2 What can be said about the anointed Christians in modern times? In his prophecy about “the sign of [his] presence and of the conclusion of the system of things,” Jesus referred to the composite body of his spirit-anointed followers on earth as “the faithful and discreet slave,” or “the faithful steward.” (Matt. 24:3, 45; Luke 12:42) As a group, the slave class has established an excellent record of “following the Lamb no matter where he goes.” (Read Revelation 14:4, 5.) Its members remain virgins in a spiritual sense by not defiling themselves with the beliefs and practices of “Babylon the Great,” the world empire of false religion. (Rev. 17:5) No doctrinal falsehood is “found in their mouths,” and they remain “without blemish” from Satan’s world. (John 15:19) In the future, the remaining anointed ones on earth “will follow” the Lamb right into heaven.—John 13:36. 3. Why is it important for us to trust the slave class? 3 Jesus has appointed the faithful and discreet slave “over his domestics,” that is, the individual members of the slave class, “to give them their food at the proper time.” He has also appointed the slave “over all his belongings.” (Matt. 24:45-47) These “belongings” include the growing “great crowd” of “other sheep.” (Rev. 7:9; John 10:16) Should not individual members of the anointed and the “other sheep” trust the slave appointed over them? There are many reasons why the slave class deserves our trust. Two outstanding reasons are: (1) Jehovah trusts the slave class. (2) Jesus also trusts the slave. Let us examine the evidence that both Jehovah God and Jesus Christ have complete confidence in the faithful and discreet slave. 5. What shows that God’s spirit is empowering the slave class? 5 Jehovah also blesses the slave class with his holy spirit. While Jehovah’s spirit is invisible, what it produces in those upon whom it operates is not. Think of what the faithful and discreet slave has been able to accomplish in giving a worldwide witness about Jehovah God, his Son, and the Kingdom. Jehovah’s worshippers are actively proclaiming the Kingdom message in over 230 lands and island groups. Does that not give undeniable evidence that God’s spirit is empowering the slave? (Read Acts 1:8.) In providing timely spiritual food for Jehovah’s people the world over, the slave class must make vital decisions. In making them and putting them into effect, the slave exhibits love, mildness, and other aspects of the spirit’s fruitage.—Gal. 5:22, 23. source;
      Hello guest!
    Now we have some work (read Critical Thinking, not criticism :))) ) to do about claims in paragraphs. First, if you, as JW and student, regularly reading this sort of spiritual foods, you already noticed that many important doctrinal changes are occurred since 2009 and this Study Material in your congregation. For example: 1) "Jesus referred to the composite body of his spirit-anointed followers on earth as “the faithful and discreet slave,” or “the faithful steward.” NOT "TRUTH" ANY MORE 2) "He has also appointed the slave “over all his belongings.” NOT "TRUTH" ANY MORE When Author of WT article described FDS by said: "No doctrinal falsehood is “found in their mouths,” then he made false statement despite, must to have knowledge, about previous changes on doctrines and interpretations. But most of all, it is of crucial importance to readers of such articles to recognize and see what falsehood and manipulation coming from magazine's Writing Department (The original text is prepared in English. The Governing Body oversees the activity of the Writing Department at our world headquarters. This department coordinates the assignments of the writers who serve at headquarters and at certain branch offices. Having a diversified writing staff allows us to address multicultural subjects that give our publications an international appeal. (source:
      Hello guest!
    ) How can be said, without any shame, that there is no "doctrinal falsehood" in FDS aka GB mouths, when they changes teachings on a regular basis? 3) "Jehovah also blesses the slave class with his holy spirit". QUESTIONABLE IDEA 4) "While Jehovah’s spirit is invisible, what it produces in those upon whom it operates is not." QUESTIONABLE IDEA 5) "Does that not give undeniable evidence that God’s spirit is empowering the slave?" QUESTIONABLE IDEA What makes points 3,4, and 5 as questionable idea? Few times GB and some of those before them, FDS composite, made clear statement how they are NOT INSPIRED (not always negate this possibility, but recently they did it in clear and sound words). About what they are not inspired? They explained: 1. GB are not inspired 2. WT publications are not inspired. So, .... in one moment they CLAIM how they have Blesses, Produces, Empowering with -God's Spirit- in sharing spiritual food, doctrines, teachings, instructions, global work, but ... in another moment they DENIED how they are Inspired by this same -God's Spirit-? 6) Two outstanding reasons are: (1) Jehovah trusts the slave class. (2) Jesus also trusts the slave. Really ? :)))) Self-praise and self-deceiving.... with clear intention to deceive you. THINK about! Who have REASON (reasoning and sound mind) TO PUBLICLY CLAIM how JHVH and Jesus TRUST ME/US/THEM ??!! DO You ever say in comment on meetings, from platform in public talk, in preaching service to people THAT God and Jesus TRUST YOU/ME, so you have to trust all words I told you. Well please, who speaking "falsehood" to whom? :))))




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