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  1. 7 points
    Of course, there was that "God-damned" snake in the grass back in Eden. It was cursed to crawl on the ground and lick the dust with its [forked] tongue. Then there were those pigs that allowed themselves to be possessed by demons, and were driven to commit suicide. Certain animals might have listened to communication from God to be able to receive a name from Adam. The same could be said for the animals that listened to communication from God to get on Noah's ark. Or for ravens to find Elijah to bring him food. Or, perhaps even a big fish who nearly snacked on Jonah. And there's that special relationship between Jehovah and Leviathan and Behemoth. God gives animals "meat in due season" (food at the proper time): (Psalm 104:27) . . .All of them wait for you To give them their food in its season. And a donkey evidently saved a man's life by ascertaining an invisible angel. On a serious note, I think most people agree that many persons have an unbalanced view of pets. But it's also easy to get unbalanced in the direction of disdaining pets and animals. Remember that Jehovah himself rejoices at his works which obviously includes his many interactions with animals according to the context of Psalm 104. (Psalm 104:28-31) . . .What you give them, they gather. When you open your hand, they are satisfied with good things. 29 When you hide your face, they are disturbed. If you take away their spirit, they die and return to the dust. 30 If you send out your spirit, they are created, And you renew the surface of the ground. 31 The glory of Jehovah will last forever. Jehovah will rejoice in his works.
  2. 6 points
    Here is the Weekly Material for August 19-25 and August 26–September 1, 2019. TB Watchtower August 19-25, 2019.pdf Watchtower August 19-25, 2019.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of August 19-25 , 2019 text only.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK week of August 19-25 , 2019.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of August 19-25 , 2019.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK week of August 19-25 , 2019 text only.doc CBS August 19-25, 2019.pdf CBS August 19-25, 2019.doc Additional Highlights -August 19-25, 2019.doc Additional Highlights -August 19-25, 2019.pdf Additional Highlights -December 31, 2018–January 6, 2019.doc Additional Highlights -August 26–September 1, 2019.pdf CBS August 26–September 1, 2019.pdf CBS August 26–September 1, 2019.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of August 26–September 1 , 2019.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of August 26–September 1 , 2019 text only.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK week of August 26–September 1 , 2019 text only.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of August 26–September 1 , 2019.pdf Watchtower August 26, 2019–September 1, 2019.doc Watchtower August 26, 2019–September 1, 2019.pdf
  3. 4 points
    This is a reference to a Caleb and Sophia video which would be seen as praiseworthy were it for any other cause. If Sophia had had an epiphany and donated her ice cream money to the ‘world hunger fund,’ or the ‘world peace fund,’ or the ‘save the planet fund’ or the ‘animal rescue fund’ or almost any charitable fund, the video would be lauded. It represents training a child that not everything is about her, and that used to be seen as a good thing. It is only because the malcontents here despise the Witness organization dedicated to the relief of ‘spiritual hunger’ that this video is so attacked. Were it for anything else, it would be lauded.
  4. 3 points
    On the contrary, the org should value the people who can respectfully discuss and critically examine doctrine like what is done here...Berean-like ones that test out the expressions they hear against the Bible. Instead, direction is not up for debate and people are told to even submit to “illogical” direction from the organization. So what the org will become is a bunch of yes-men who don’t know how to think for themselves.
  5. 3 points
    You have deflected to the Boy Scouts. In your mind, you are desperately trying to preserve a corrupt leadership/organization that claims to represent the Almighty God. Is it not more important to preserve our relationship with God, rather than with men who fail deliberately and repeatedly, to protect their "sheep"? I am more "vested" in the prophetic outcome of this organization, of which this matter only contributes to. When it is in your power, don’t withhold good from the one it belongs to. 28 Don’t say to your neighbor, “Go away! Come back later. I’ll give it tomorrow”—when it is there with you. 29 Don’t plan any harm against your neighbor, for he trusts you and lives near you. 30 Don’t accuse anyone without cause, when he has done you no harm. 31 Don’t envy a violent man or choose any of his ways; 32 for the devious are detestable to the Lord, but He is a friend to the upright. 33 The Lord’s curse is on the household of the wicked, but He blesses the home of the righteous; 34 He mocks those who mock, but gives grace to the humble. 35 The wise will inherit honor, but He holds up fools to dishonor. Prov 3:27-35
  6. 3 points
    He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god. This has to be the GB of JW Org. They have exalted themselves above every other human on this earth. Above all of the true Anointed. Even to a point above Jesus Christ.
  7. 3 points
    Concerning "Animals being given undo importance" .... We are very fragile, big ugly bags of mostly water and require a LOT of things :of the world to stay alive, and healthy, and emotionally stable. I have 16 pet chickens ( two died of heat exhaustion, from being run around the yard by my dogs, after flying out of their temporary enclosure, and I buried them this morning in the yard with little plastic pipe "tombstones" which I melted into the side with a soldering iron their names and date of death, which was yesterday). And yet ... when I die, I do not care if I am just left where I fall, or someone puts my remains in a dumpster. And yet ... today at Golden Corral, my wife and I ate fried chicken, and I pondered "Am I a hypocrite, for loving both live chickens ... and those crispy fried??" I looked at myself in the mirror, and noticed my eyes are in front (predator), and the chickens' eyes are on the side of their heads (prey), and decided that that is the natural order of things, and I should just get used to it, without recriminations. Besides .... "Love Never Fails" .... and when I die, I will probably be too tough to eat, and with the fried chicken .... it's no one we know.
  8. 3 points
    (Anna just reminded me that I promised to post what I heard.) This is what I understood the speaker to say: Don't elevate animals to status of man. Man was made in God's image and has the ability to love, appreciate wisdom, reasoning, music and poetry and worship. Animals can't do that. The speaker also cited the Leona Hemsley and what she left in her will for her dog (and to have him buried beside her). He said to show love to our great God, Jehovah. Jehovah will provide for us as he provides for the birds who are assured of confident eating ( Matt 6:26).
  9. 3 points
    JW Insider

    who is referred to here?

    This is true. But then again this will always be true because the end is closer now than at the time we became believers. (Romans 13:11, 12) . . .And do this because you know the season, that it is already the hour for you to awake from sleep, for now our salvation is nearer than at the time when we became believers. 12 The night is well along; the day has drawn near.. . . Since the late 1600's, especially, religions that focus on where we are in terms of chronology and prophecy have claimed we are at the cusp of the Great Tribulation. The Millerite movement apparently produced at least 100,000 people who could be convinced that 1843/1844 was the end. A Millerite named Barbour was able to convince Russell from his updated version of Miller's chronology that Barbour had used to prove 1873/1874 was the end. The Watchtower said that the signs were unmistakable that the last days had begun in 1799 and the Watchtower pointed to heavenly signs in the sun and stars in the early 1800's as proof. The evidence is so overwhelming now, today, that it would seem crazy to deny that we are deep into the last days, and yet we should keep in mind that the evidences seemed just as overwhelming to Miller, Barbour, Russell and others, and probably just as overwhelming to Paul's contemporaries. And we truly HAVE been on the cusp of the Great Tribulation ever since 70 C.E. when the first part of the prophecy about the destruction of Jerusalem was fulfilled. Remember that Jesus said that "immediately after those days, the sun would be darkened" etc. As Peter said, it could be 1,000 years off, and yet we are still to live as if the parousia could be within our lifetime. If we happen to survive to that time, we were on the cusp, and if we happen to die before that time, we were on the cusp, because our next waking second after our death, should be in the resurrection.
  10. 3 points
    You are world class! I performed for the adults in the little piano school I go to, but you performed for the world! It pleased me mightily! The teacher is a young woman about 30, but she is professionally trained and has the insight of a 60 year old. She was helping us to get over our fear of performing. That was my second performance. The first one was at a nice new school on a new piano. It was held in February. Audience of about 200. I played Hungarian Rhapsody Theme. Yesterday was just an end of term performance so we could help our peers get over performance fears. I played Black Forest Polka and a piece I used to play when I was eleven in key of G. They were astounded I could still remember it although I never had the book with it. It was owned by the teacher. She would let me play from that book for a change. "If you don't recognize the tune, it never made the cut for Kingdom Songs." Too funny! I enjoyed it so much that although I know the piece, I can't write the name of it. Sounds like Bach. My preferred kind of music is classical, so you did well. Hi JWI, Funny but I am still playing Kingdom Songs from the big brown 1984 book. (And my copy still looks new) They are about seven songs in there that I used to play well (13, 14,15 , 17 and 201) and I have just continued where I left off. In the new book I am working on No 43 - A Prayer of Thanks and 115 Gratitude for Divine Patience which I also used to play before. I pick the ones where the music is simpler. I rather play in C than with four flats or sharps. The best one is 15 Life without End - At Last! No. 15 in the old book in the key of C. In the new book it is in Aflat major I think with four flats. I sometimes turn the function key from piano to Pipe (Church) Organ and pretend to be an organist. Some brothers are prejudiced to the organ, so I play it for myself. These new electric pianos can sound like almost any instrument by just the touch of a switch. Love of music is God-given and he is not against music, but everything must be put in its place. I decided to continue my music as it is said to help the brain. If you don't use it you lose it. Music helps us to use a part of the brain that is not frequently used. It also helps to build a high level of discipline, listening ability, appreciation, tolerance and other good qualities. Look up the benefits. They have also come across quite a few Alzheimers persons who can still play although they are not very functional otherwise. So that says something. It helps one also to be able to enjoy oneself when alone. So don't put the harmonica back into the case, do a little practise every day. Hope to post something if I get it recorded. Like you and Anna, I like Bible study, language, fine art and music. If they put me in prison rest assured I will sing not Dee Dum Bum Bum , but "Firm and Determined in this Time of the End... from "Forward You Witnesses!" 29 in 1984 book. Was singing it since the 1950s, so don't think that is coming out of my brain now. I will simply read and sing the new words but the old words are etched there for good. (Let Rook know)
  11. 3 points
    As far as I know, there are strict outlines that are closely adhered to, and from my experience of conventions, the same talks by different brothers sound pretty much alike. Not word for word of course, otherwise it wouldn't be an outline but a script. But the likely hood of them sounding completely different is unlikely. That is not to say some elder couldn't slip in his own ideas, something he maybe feels passionately about. Especially at a KH. This happens very rarely now though, and especially not at conventions. I remember one elder years ago, had something against Teenage Ninja Turtles, and counseled parents in his talk about how it was not appropriate for a Christian to allow their children to play with those toys. You know that was NOT in the outline. Nevertheless, there were parents that made their kids throw away all their treasured Ninja Turtles.... talk about imposing your own conscience on others! This is one reason why the outlines now have become very specific, and have to be strictly followed, so that this kind of thing does not happen.
  12. 3 points
    other than those things that TTH enumerated about you...I think you're OK
  13. 3 points
    Kids cost an arm and a leg to raise. Two of them will disable you for life. Okay. I’ll approach it in that spirit. I think you defeat yourself looking at it this way. The Bible is a finite book. You have been reading it for 70 years. Just what do you expect to learn that is new? There are three assembly events in modern times. There were three assembly events, connected with the festivals, in ancient times. What did they learn then that was new? Why did they go?
  14. 3 points
    He does. That’s half the problem. Working up a better answer. Time is a little tight now.
  15. 3 points
    Sorry to disappoint. I usually give up on explaining things concisely at about the time I notice that I am already up to 20 paragraphs. But I meant that there have already been several pages of explanations in this thread and others, going right back to your original question. The very fact that the GB produces contradictory statements about themselves, which are not based on scripture, that was what made me say that the GB cannot be the same as the FDS. A GB that declares itself to be the FDS is already "publishing a flawed argument" "skating close to the edge" and "in no man's land" if I may borrow some verbiage from Outta Here. This goes back to a WT quote that Noble Berean provided, back on page 5 or so: "[A mature christian] does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and "the faithful and discreet slave." (w01 8/1 p.14)   And a similar one here: *** w04 10/1 p. 7 “The Meek Shall Inherit the Earth”—How? *** One who is meek humbly accepts God’s standards in all aspects of his personal life; he does not insist on going by his own views or by other people’s opinions. He is also teachable, willing to be taught by Jehovah. The psalmist David wrote: “[Jehovah] will cause the meek ones to walk in his judicial decision, and he will teach the meek ones his way.”—Psalm 25:9; Proverbs 3:5, 6. We now see that it has been admitted that the GB have sometimes been advocating or insisting on their own views. Several of these views have been "false" as they have now admitted. It is clear that in some cases these have merely been based on other people's opinions, often their own predecessors on the GB. They have sometimes forgotten to be meek. Although they admit that some of the teachings and direction has been incorrect, they have sometimes forgotten the meekness and humility that should come from these experiences and continue to insist that others should have "complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by . . . the faithful and discreet slave." Well that is the same as saying that we should have complete confidence in views and opinions that are prone to error, potentially false and uninspired, just because they have been mixed in with truths revealed from Jehovah through his Son, Jesus Christ. But with true humility, faithfulness and discretion it doesn't have to be this way. The GB, as overseers (elders), are reaching out for an oversight position over the extended worldwide congregations, and are therefore reaching out for a fine work. It is a very valuable and useful office of oversight. And through it they can preside over various questions and concerns, while considering input and issues from all over the world. But in any position of privilege or heavy responsibility there is a danger that Jesus clearly warned about. If we take Jesus' words seriously, we will be on the watch for the very examples that Jesus warned about. We know that the GB consider themselves to be in a position much like that of the original 12 apostles, or that of the "NT" Bible writers, and the Bible tells us what such positions can lead to: the desire for control, power, prominence, leadership, and even obedience. (Matthew 19:27-20:27) . . .Then Peter said in reply: “Look! We have left all things and followed you; what, then, will there be for us?” . . .[Jesus answered] you who have followed me will sit on 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands for the sake of my name will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit everlasting life. 30 “But many who are first will be last and the last first. . . .‘These last men put in one hour’s work; still you made them equal to us who bore the burden of the day and the burning heat!’ 13 But he said in reply to one of them, ‘Fellow, I do you no wrong. You agreed with me for a de·narʹi·us, did you not? 14 Take what is yours and go. I want to give to this last one the same as to you. . . . Or is your eye envious because I am good?’ 16 In this way, the last ones will be first, and the first ones last.” . . . 20 Then the mother of the sons of Zebʹe·dee approached him with her sons, . . . . “Give the word that these two sons of mine may sit down, one at your right hand and one at your left, in your Kingdom.” . . . 23 He said to them: “You will indeed drink my cup, but to sit down at my right hand and at my left is not mine to give, but it belongs to those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.” 24 When the ten others heard about it, they became indignant at the two brothers. 25 But Jesus called them to him and said: “You know that the rulers of the nations lord it over them and the great men wield authority over them. 26 This must not be the way among you; but whoever wants to become great among you must be your minister, 27 and whoever wants to be first among you must be your slave. I think there is a tendency for all of us to want to read into the first century congregation a kind of human authority structure among the apostles and older men of Jerusalem that just wasn't there. The apostles remaining in Jerusalem prior to the writing of the "NT" has allready served its purpose, and is not intended as an ongoing model of apostolic succession in the last days. Because we are only human, we think that the hierarchical system under Moses, and therefore the "seat of Moses" was intended to continue into Christian times. We are therefore anxious to see any criticizers as "Korah vs Moses." We don't have the faith that true Christianity can thrive without a group of men wielding authority. (Just as Israel didn't think they could compete with nations around them without a king.) We tend not to see this wielding of authority as a problem, because MOST of what the GB relays and publishes is perfectly acceptable. But this lax attitude toward what Jesus warned us about can result in a very dangerous situation for Christians. We do not mature as we should to stand on our own, because it's so much easier to just accept humans as leaders, and accept them as vicars of Christ. Paul pointed out the folly of this very attitude toward other humans who think they should be more than what even the "apostles" were, and who want to be more than just faithful and discreet "stewards." They will tend to go beyond the things written; to want honor, and to judge, and to govern. (1 Corinthians 4:2-10) 2 In this regard, what is expected of stewards is that they be found faithful. 3 Now to me it is of very little importance to be examined by you or by a human tribunal. In fact, I do not even examine myself. 4 For I am not conscious of anything against myself. But by this I am not proved righteous; the one who examines me is Jehovah. 5 Therefore, do not judge anything before the due time, until the Lord comes. He will bring the secret things of darkness to light and make known the intentions of the hearts, and then each one will receive his praise from God. 6 Now, brothers, these things I have applied to myself and A·polʹlos for your good, that through us you may learn the rule: “Do not go beyond the things that are written,” so that you may not be puffed up with pride, favoring one against the other. 7 For who makes you different from another? Indeed, what do you have that you did not receive? If, in fact, you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not receive it? 8 Are you already satisfied? Are you already rich? Have you begun ruling as kings without us? I really wish that you had begun ruling as kings, so that we also might rule with you as kings. 9 For it seems to me that God has put us the apostles last on exhibition as men condemned to death, because we have become a theatrical spectacle to the world, and to angels and to men. 10 We are fools because of Christ, but you are discreet in Christ; we are weak, but you are strong; you are held in honor, but we in dishonor. These men wanted to be "guardians" when Paul indicated that the entire worldwide congregation were their/our guardians: (1 Corinthians 4:15) . . .For though you may have 10,000 guardians in Christ. . . (Romans 14:12) . . .So, then, each of us will render an account for himself to God. (Romans 14:4) 4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for Jehovah can make him stand. (Galatians 6:4, 5) 4 But let each one examine his own actions, and then he will have cause for rejoicing in regard to himself alone, and not in comparison with the other person. 5 For each one will carry his own load.
  16. 3 points
    I understand the point you are making ... and it is a good extrapolation ... except a "soul" is someone ( OR SOME LIVING CREATURE ...) who breathes atmospheric oxygen mix. The reason we do NOT have to bleed fish (often caught in nets by the thousands ...) is that they ARE not souls. They do not live and breathe air. I eat clam chowder at least four times a week. How would you bleed a clam? They are CHANGED in the twinkling of an eye ... to another life form ... not extracted. Uh... people, not clams.
  17. 3 points
    Things like this are a good test of peoples' integrity. ESPECIALLY when the test has a simple YES or NO answer, and they are aware that they will answer to Almighty God, for lying. Honest questions deserve honest answers, and unless life or liberty are at stake, are appropriate. Especially in a discussion room where credibility is so very important ... as we are casually discussing life and death matters. so here goes..... 1.) BillyTheKid46, ... are you now or have you ever been one of Jehovah's Witnesses ? ... and, 2.) are you now, or have ever been a Watchtower Lawyer, or anything similar? 3.) Space Merchant: Are you now or have you ever been one of Jehovah's Witnesses? Working on the exchange of information theory of Steven Covey, in "The Seven Habits of Successful People", about emotional "bank accounts" ... that it is immoral to try and make a withdrawal without having enough "deposits" to cover it ... please consider all the personal information about myself I have freely given here, to try and contribute to general understanding ... including my real name, and real picture, ad nauseaum, as enough "deposit" to cover the request for a withdrawal from YOUR emotional bank accounts, for information not already volunteered. Of course this only works between men of integrity, and will be ridiculed and/or ignored by weasels.
  18. 3 points
    In a scholarly world. There are many levels of understanding. There is no one set of rule. However, scripture does contain certain rules. This is why Jesus never became a formal rabbi with scholarly works. He didn’t need to, just like we don’t need to. Here is but a taste of the many variations. So on and so on! However, if you want to pick up the challenge of scholarly works, it will take you decades to understand something that should come natural to a true believer of Christ and God.
  19. 3 points
    Certainly there is free will ... all you can manage in whatever its is that is your hearts desire .... for good .... for evil ... or for misadventure. I used to jump out of perfectly good aircraft, KNOWING in less that two minutes I could be dead .... but I did it anyway. EVERYONE has freedom of will .... if they can manage it. NOBODY has freedom of consequences, unless it is pure, dumb luck.
  20. 3 points
    Brazen sounds a bit archaic, and can sometimes offer ambiguity if persons are familiar with another meaning of brazen, such as the ONLY definition (made of brass) that it had in the previous NWT. In the Appendix of the NWT Reference Bible (1984): *** Rbi8 p. 1575 4D “Tartarus” *** In Job 41:31, 32 (41:23, 24, LXX) we read concerning Leviathan: “He makes the deep boil like a brazen caldron; . . . " But it's not a terrible translation, as it really was used in Greek with reference to "brazen hussies." (shameless hussies, and wanton hussies - and brazen hustlers, too, for that matter.) Literally, it meant people who were not so moral as those good folks up in the town of Selge, Pisidia, Asia Minor. It's much better than the old translation in the NWT (loose conduct) which was actually a mistranslation because it implied lesser moral infractions of a more general variety. Note Thayer's: ἀσέλγεια, -ας, ἡ, the conduct and character of one who is ἀσελγής (a word which some suppose to be compounded of the α privative and Σέλγη, the name of a city in Pisidia whose citizens excelled in strictness of morals [so Etym. Magn. 152, 38; per contra cf. Suidas 603 d.]: others of α intensive and σαλαγεῖν, to disturb, raise a din; others, and now the majority, of α privative and σέλγω equivalent to θέλγω, not affecting pleasantly, exciting disgust), unbridled lust, excess, licentiousness, lasciviousness, wantonness, outrageousness, shamelessness, insolence:Mark 7:22 (where it is uncertain what particular vice is spoken of); of gluttony and venery, Jude 1:4; plural, 1 Peter 4:3; 2 Peter 2:2 (for Rec. ἀπωλείαις), 2 Peter 2:18; of carnality, lasciviousness: 2 Corinthians 12:21; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 4:19; 2 Peter 2:7; plural "wanton (acts or) manners, as filthy words, indecent bodily movements, unchaste handling of males and females, etc." (Fritzsche), Romans 13:13. (In Biblical Greek besides only in Wis. 14:26 and 3 Macc. 2:26. Among Greek writings used by Plato, Isocrates and following; at length by Plutarch [Lucull. 38] and Lucian [dial. meretr. 6] of the wantonness of women [Lob. ad Phryn., p. 184 n.].) Cf. Tittmann i., p. 151f; [especially Trench, § xvi.]. I took 4 years of Hebrew in College (7 semesters) and learned a bit of Greek at Bethel. Still an amateur, of course, but learned enough to know that the NWT is actually an excellent translation with only a few verses where bias has created areas for further study. Most of its "mis-translations," in my opinion, do not necessarily add false informaiton, just interpreted information. Most of the time I'd say the interpreted information is quite likely true, just unnecessary for a pure translation. Personally, I find both the 1984 and 2013 NWT to be very good, even the simpler revised version. But I couldn't do without an Interlinear. There was more consistency in the old NWT, and where words were added there were usually brackets around them. You have to really know a more literal translation well, for the Revised NWT to also be as useful. And, for the present, most JWs have a good knowledge of the NWT (more literal) and the NWT Revised, which puts them in pretty good shape. A simpler, easier to read version, is better for grasping the context, and a literal translation is better for study. We have them both, plus an excellent Interlinear (KIT). I might have a few minor complaints with the NWT, but I have hundreds more with the KJV, RSV, and ASV. There are a few things I like better about the Jerusalem Bible and the RSV, but it doesn't matter so much any more. We all have the ability to check all kinds of good Bible language resources online, and dozens of parallel Bibles online for comparison.
  21. 3 points
    I agree completely. But he asked. (And he asked nicely, and I think he was really interested.)
  22. 3 points
    what I meant is that I don’t plan to pursue it. However, JWI himself responded, so I will. He has extraordinary powers granted him by the Librarian (that old hen). He can divide into a separate thread if he wants to. One college kid asked, when I proposed coming back, “To what end?” It was a question I’d not been asked before. I explained that in my ideal scenario I would return 100 times and engage in 100 different conversations and on the 101st I would ask him if he wanted to be a Jehovah’s Witness like me and at that time he should say ‘No.’ I even asked him to rehearse. “Let me show you how it would work. I am going to ask you to become a Witness like me and I want you to say “No.” Would you do that? He agreed. “Would you like to become a Witness?” I asked. “No,” he said. “You see? Nothing to worry about. It’s just conversation. You’ll learn your way around the Bible in the meantime. The moment you tire of it, just let me know. No one is easier to get rid of than Tommy.” The anticult people try to spin our calls as “recruiting.” That’s why the outrage some have over the recent letter expressing condolences over someone’s loss. If they just took it at face value, they’d be okay with it. We should not let those scoundrels define the game. Are we “recruiting?” I suppose so, but in the most non-threatening way possible, so that only by really stretching the point could we be said to be doing it. And it is not an immediate goal—telling the good news of the kingdom is. College is far more indoctrinating than anything having to do with Jehovah’s Witnesses. The typical student is separated 24/7 from his or her previous stabilizing routine and people—a classic tool of brainwashing. (I didn’t actually go through the rehearsal with him. Our best lines always occur to us too late. But that does not mean that I won’t do it when the situation is right.)
  23. 3 points


    You bring this up so frequently (and HOW old are you?) that I have become curious over something: Please post a full-length photo of yourself. If, as I suspect, it shows you wearing spray-on pants, that will explain a lot.
  24. 3 points
  25. 3 points


    I'm just trying to be fair, and I believe the truth is the truth and a lie is a lie no matter who says it.
  26. 3 points
    And I thought it was an Eden Iguana!
      Hello guest!
  27. 3 points
    Who are these people but a bunch of flakes like you? So what have they actually confirmed in your puzzled mind? They don't speak for the Watchtower. In their hearts, they are not affiliated to the Watchtower. They speak in the same respect as apostates. Therefore, what possible thing can they prove aside to confirm how inadequate you are in understanding scripture with their understanding? The GB didn't teach you to apply scripture by their standards. They taught you through others to apply scripture by Christ standards, Therefore, what have you taught yourself by learning scripture on your own? To be foolish and an apostate? You really taught yourself something. How embarrassing it will be when someone wants to use somebody like you in a court of law as a witness. It is going to be very easy to prove your personal bias and mental state.
  28. 3 points
    Someone has to take out the trash.
  29. 3 points
    LOL. I'm always happy to address a challenge. In this case you have claimed that I stole unauthorized material, perhaps hoping to use it against the Watchtower, somehow. I did not steal anything. And I'm not sure what would make certain material "unauthorized." I suppose you could argue that only material that was published in our publications was authorized. But does that mean that everything else that any Bethelite saved or collected must be destroyed? Really? Also, this first letter I shared actually went out to a sister and was therefore "published" (with only minor alterations) and the material was reused for future letters on the topic. I have three letters from Governing Body members that were written to me personally. Should I destroy them? One was a letter of recommendation to help me get a secular job after I left Bethel. Do you really think we should be ashamed of or hide anything that goes on behind the scenes at Bethel? You think that we shouldn't talk about any of these things, or that we shouldn't share anything that was written? You appear to be afraid that this material I saved could be used against the Watchtower, somehow. Anything that I kept, I saved out of a spirit of appreciation for the experience I had at Bethel, which was a wonderful experience. I wanted to remember it and I kept things that would help me remember it. If I had wanted to find a way to use them against the Watchtower, I don't think I would have waited about 40 years to share them. I admit that I have also shared experiences from Bethel that we could (and should) learn from. Even a negative experience could be profitable to others. I find that most people hold back on this count because they think that certain types of negative experiences cannot be profitable to anyone. This flies in face of scripture. Did Paul hold back from telling the Galatians and Corinthians about negative experiences? Did Jesus hold back? Did not Paul say we should be imitators of Paul himself? (Acts 20:20) while I did not hold back from telling you any of the things that were profitable . . . (1 Corinthians 10:6-12) . . .Now these things became examples for us, in order for us not to desire injurious things, as they desired them. 7 Neither become idolaters, as some of them did; just as it is written: “The people sat down to eat and drink. Then they got up to have a good time.” 8 Neither let us practice sexual immorality, as some of them committed sexual immorality, . . . 11 Now these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for a warning to us upon whom the ends of the systems of things have come. 12 So let the one who thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall. (1 Corinthians 4:14-5:6) 14 I am writing these things, not to put you to shame, but to admonish you as my beloved children. . . . 16 I urge you, therefore, become imitators of me. . . . 18 Some are puffed up with pride,. . . 5 Actually sexual immorality is reported among you, and such immorality as is not even found among the nations. . . 6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven ferments the whole batch of dough? Neither Jesus nor Paul held back from sharing things that were profitable, both old and new. (Matthew 13:51, 52) . . .” 52 Then he said to them: “That being the case, every public instructor who is taught about the Kingdom of the heavens is like a man, the master of the house, who brings out of his treasure store things both new and old.” (Mark 4:22) . . .For there is nothing hidden that will not be exposed; nothing is carefully concealed that will not come out in the open.
  30. 2 points

    Do not trust .....WHO?

    Only if you don't understand the message and misrepresent it just like any other ex-witness. You have to do better Srecko. There are intelligent people out there that can see even in a cloud of smoke. 😁
  31. 2 points
    I'm guessing that this person is on the right track:
      Hello guest!
    Meier decided to crunch some numbers and find out. While his numbers are an estimate, he said, they provide a helpful comparison of just how much icebreakers might contribute to summer ice loss. Meier said, “In late June, when the sun’s energy is strongest, the total sea ice extent is around 10 million square kilometers or 3.9 million square miles. An icebreaker cruising through the ice for 1,000 kilometers (620 miles) and leaving an ice-free wake of 10 meters (33 feet) would open an area of water 10 square kilometers (3.9 square miles) over the entire cruise. In contrast, the Arctic sea ice cover decreases by an average of over 9 million square kilometers or 3.5 million square miles each year during its melt season—an area larger than the contiguous United States. In total, researchers estimate that the number of icebreakers traversing the Arctic at any given time is usually less than three. So, Meier said, “The actual contribution is miniscule—only one part in a million of the total ice cover.”
  32. 2 points
    If, then, the clergy-laity distinction is not based on the model set by Jesus’ apostles and other early Christians, does that make it wrong? According to the Bible, yes....... Spiritually older men did, of course, serve as overseers, which included being shepherds and teachers. (Acts 20:28) However, these men were not paid clerics........ Sadly, when people disregard that divinely inspired directive, spiritual harm usually results, and that is true of the clergy-laity arrangement. How so? Please consider the following six points. 1. The separation of a clergy class implies that one must have a special calling to be a minister of God. 2. The clergy-laity distinction exalts the clergy class, an evidence being adulatory religious titles. 3. A paid clergy class can impose a heavy financial burden on the laity, especially when the former have lavish lifestyles. 4. Because a clergyman may depend on others for financial support, he might be tempted to dilute the Bible’s message in order to please parishioners. 5. The clergy-laity distinction tends to cause lay people to relegate religion to the clergy, while the laity just turn up for weekly services. 6. When the laity are Biblically uninformed, they can easily be misled by clerics, even exploited by them. source:
      Hello guest!
    When GB, Elders and WT Lawyers defend themselves before Courts how in JW Congregations Worldwide existing clergy penitence as answer to Judges why they not want to give verbal or written testimony to Court, than all this what was said in Awake is worth NOTHING. We can also discuss some other claims here about this 6 points and found it problematic. Dear @Anna answer would not come by WT Society loud public claim how clergy penitence WILL STOP TO exist in congregations. Well, according to Awake that same THING doesn't exist at all in WT Society or JW Church. :))))..... because JW have not CLERGY :)))) ... only on Courts cases when millions of $ are at stake.
  33. 2 points
  34. 2 points
    My favorite scene was when, at the front door of the Piano teacher, Bill Murray offered her a thousand dollars (?) for a piano lesson, and the teacher threw the little girl student out the door.
  35. 2 points

    who is referred to here?

    Yeah, that’s what I’m talkin about!
  36. 2 points
    JW Insider

    who is referred to here?

    If anyone is interested, I was able to move all the comments that were related to the CAIN topic over to here:
      Hello guest!
    Yes, I know it wasn't originally about Cain marrying his sister, but if JTR has a better name for it, I can still change it (I think).
  37. 2 points
    Don't go to the rest room, you might miss it!
  38. 2 points
    That’s a lot of work to syphon out the liars. That’s not to say it is not a good idea, nor that it is any more time-consuming than what I do. It is just that few people have that kind of time. Most people take news from one or two sources, often the evening TV news for people our age, and pretty well accept that they are being told the truth. Usually they are, but it is not “the whole truth and nothing but the truth”—which can completely turn things around. At one pioneer meeting the elder conducting it was highlighting the importance of neutrality, and never to give the impression of taking sides. “Now we all know that Trump is crazy,” he said, “but.......” I would stake my life on it that his only source of news is the evening news of one of the three networks. I was relatively up in years before I discovered to my surprise that my (non-Witness) Dad cared hardly at all about politics. Many were the political discussions swirling around the dining room table, as I was growing up, when the extended family was gathered. However, it turned out that my Mom’s father was very much a GOP person and would crank on about it endlessly, and my Dad was just too gracious to tell him to zip it—it was his father-in-law, after all, who his wife liked.
  39. 2 points
    How do you know that ‘Judgement day’ is still a long way off yet? Didn’t you just base that on your previous assessment that God has not yet produced a true Anointed? It does not sound like much to hang one’s hat on. It wasn’t you. I don’t. You, too, have read it wrong. I guess John has a point. it is well to identify who you are talking about and not just leave that identification to the thread. Even those who you think are paying rapt attention are just waiting for the other blowhard to stop talking so that they can make their own speech.
  40. 2 points
    “Debunk” – to prove that something such as an idea or belief is false and silly. It wasn’t falsely “debunked” until the expectations of the organization never were fulfilled. It was then that the responsibility of believing in a scam fell on the shoulders of the members, even though it was the "serious students of the Bible" who believed 1975 to be an important date. I would guess the most serious of "serious students" would be the leaders who approved of printing the article. A collage of expectations:
  41. 2 points
    “How does it feeeel, to be on you own, with no direction hoooome, like a rolling stooone.”
  42. 2 points
    Yes Billy I'm married to one, but I don't trust her and she knows that. The children know that I don't trust them either. i once wrote on my FB page :- Which is worse : Love based on lies, or, Hate based on truth. You see Billy i am not you. I do not think like you. I do not act like you. I do not have the feelings / emotions like you. When you and others, begin to see other people, as OTHER people, not as people like you, then you and others may just start to begin to understand that not all of us live by the same rules. You are trying to tell me I trust my wife because I'm married to her. Wrong. The trust died many years ago. I have no love for anyone, no trust in anyone. It does not mean that I hate people, it simply means I have no feelings for them. I demand nothing, I expect nothing, therefore i no longer get disappointed by anyone.
  43. 2 points
    Explain please ? I thought it was self evident, but since you asked me to (partially) explain ....... Their Justice system is set up to be accessible to everyone,...open... transparent ... AND ACCOUNTABLE if someone screws up, is incompetent, or evil .... and does not require "two witnesses". Let's say a victim of CSA is also murdered. NOW you have NO witnesses. Congregationally, using the rules we live by, the criminal COMPLETELY escapes Justice.he feigns innocence, and THAT is the end of THAT. The systems the Nations have can unravel the mystery using detective work, forensic evidence, and if they have a suspect, can try him for his alleged crimes in open court, where he can have witnesses from the general public, witnesses for his defense, and character witnesses in his behalf. If he is poor with words, or too ignorant to make a determined and competent defense, he will be appointed a Lawyer who presumably IS competent to represent him. In OUR system you cannot even have present Jehovah's Witnesses from the Congregation present ... and that's the fact, Jack. You cannot have a transcript, you cannot record it on audio or video, you cannot have competent counsel represent you, and you have to file an appeal in 7 days or there is no appeal available. The ones judging you do not even have to TELL YOU THEIR NAMES. ... AT LEAST THEY ARE NOT WEARING HOODED ROBES, AND CARRYING A SCYTHE., which is the only "blessing" there. The Nations closely imitate the system God set up for Israel in ancient times ... and OUR system resembles loosely one set up by any number of tyrants. The Nations have the MORAL HIGH GROUND because their Justice system more closely imitates the one Jehovah God set up, and ours more closely resembles a Public Relations Corporation's damage control department. And that's that's the fact, Jack.
  44. 2 points
    BTK --- you are a sad, angry, frustrated man, with delusions of grandeur, and a desire to hurt someone who is not intimidated by your fantasies of scriptural superiority. I could go on and on for several paragraphs ... but that about covers it. You remind me of someone from Christendom who when you disagree with them, their eyes get wide, they start salivating, get loud, and threaten you with being tormented forever and ever in a burning hell, to the point that in a religious fervor, work themselves up into a rapturous orgasm of hatred. The only difference is YOU threaten with the Elders, which you try to use as a weapon, to have people fear YOU. The things you project on others ... is who YOU are. Here is a good test for YOU, or ANYBODY to test and see if you are delusional, or not .... 1.) Please supply just ONE scripture I have misused, and explain just HOW I misused it. If you cannot do this .... you stand convicted by your own words. ....and by the way, I do not confront the Elders, because they do not confront me. Every time they have, I have been forthright, and honest. That's how they all learned to Moonwalk.
  45. 2 points


    I got it! hopefully, that dense JWinsider and witness will understand too. However, did you ever insult Allan as you have with me? Respect works both ways. Even if someone thinks that people can't capture the intent like James that called me "despicable" because of my avatar when the only thing despicable are his words. Yet, there was no rebuke coming out of you. It must be a professional courtesy. That doesn't wash with me.
  46. 2 points
    OK. I see where you are coming from on this now. I don't know that the GB instructed the hiding from authorities and others in the congregation, but they certainly have known about the hiding, and have gone along with it, and could have ordered exposure of the problem instead of continued hiding. (In the past, hiding apparently happened in most, but not in all cases.) From that perspective, exposure of such crimes and sins would undoubtedly have reduced the problem. Especially the problem of repeat offenders. There are some cases that will probably never come to light in this system due to the systemic nature of trying to protect the reputation of an organization and leaders at the expense of protecting children. They were late in their correct responses to this problem, in my opinion, but they do see it as a problem. Even if it's exposure and cost. But I know that many have seen it as a problem of justice for the victims, too. Unfortunately, that had previously been dismissed by some in power as less important. Just an analogy to show how someone can be both right and wrong at the same time. There are huge scriptural problems with this claim of the GB to be the exact and complete fulfillment of the FDS. I've dealt with that elsewhere. But we can't forget that it is a Christian duty to try to feed spiritual food to fellow Christians. The GB truly believe this is their duty and they also know that they are not perfect, and must admit to providing wrong guidance at times and sometimes bad spiritual food, too, in the form of false doctrines and false predictions. They probably thought them right at the time, but you are right, that it was not all 'food at the proper time.' People guided by God have made mistakes in Biblical times, when the very same persons had the privilege of seeing Jesus personally, or were even inspired at other times to write books of the Bible. Yet, the GB make no such claim about themselves that they are inspired in this same way. They feel that intensive Bible study, organizational experience, faith in Jehovah, meditation and prayer will all combine in some spiritual way to guide them. Other people have made claims that they claim inspiration, and the distinction gets blurry. And some Witnesses teach "present" truth as immutable in such a way that they, too, have blurred the distinction. In any case, God is not misguiding. It's just that people are so imperfect that we must learn to trust and obey God as ruler rather than sons of men in whom no salvation belongs. No. The inability to question something is often because something just seems so clear and obvious that we just can't imagine that it could ever be wrong. Or it has been repeated so often that we can't imagine it could be wrong. We don't question things we are "sure" of. It happens to all of us, and then we might be surprised some day to find out we were wrong after all. But by not questioning, we probably will never have to find out. So the early Corinthian congregation must also have been an unclean organization. Jesus' organization of his apostles must have been an unclean organization, too. I think it will come close to that. It won't come immediately, but there will be some countries soon, I think, where we won't be allowed to preach unless we stop shunning family members for example. We will agree, and shunning will become a personal, private thing. Most Witnesses don't want to shun, we just do it because we are told it is loving. When there is no longer any threat of getting in trouble for not shunning, most of us will see that it is more loving not to shun. The change will happen organically from that point. Food at the proper time.
  47. 2 points
  48. 2 points

    Baptismal questions

    Matt 5:11 - Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Matt 19:29 - And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. Matt 10:39 - Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it. What "life" have many "found" and dare not lose? "When we use our time to prepare for God’s new world, are we missing out on a better way of life today? No! Serving Jehovah is the best way of life. To prepare for everlasting life in the new world, we need to obey the direction from Jehovah’s organization now. WT 15/8/15 pg 19-20 When anyone rejects this "life", giving full attention to Jesus and the Father only, division occurs. Luke 12:49 - “I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! 50 But I have a baptism to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed! 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.” The division and persecution for following Christ is experienced among God’s people, just as it was in Jesus’ day. Many claim to follow Jesus Christ around the world, but Jesus gives the indication of who is persecuting God's people. John 16:2,3 - "They will put you out of the synagogue (“congregation); in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills (Rev 13:15) you will think they are offering a service to God. 3 They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me." The synagogue today is where spiritual "Jews"/"Israel" are found. (Rev 7:4; Rom 9:6; 1 Pet 2:9,10) Do JWs suffer for Christ’s sake? No, they suffer on behalf of an organization, but they are taught they suffer because “Jehovah” expects them to have steadfast faith and dedication in an earthly organization under any circumstances. They have created a counterfeit fortress to protect them, instead of relying fully on God. Dan 11:36-38; Rom 1:25 Those who are ‘put out’ of the congregations for following Christ, are reviled by their own people, in the same way Jesus was. Matt 11:28-30 - “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble inheart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” Are JWs finding rest as part of “Jehovah’s organization”, or are they experiencing turmoil in nations around the world? Ps 106:40-43 - "Therefore the Lord was angry with his people and abhorred his inheritance. 41 He gave them into the hands of the nations, and their foes ruled over them. 42 Their enemies oppressed them and subjected them to their power. 43 Many times he delivered them, but they were bent on rebellion and they wasted away in their sin." The call is to “come out of her, my people”. Who’s sins are magnified in front of God; those of Christendom, or those of “Jehovah’s organization” where God’s “chosen” anointed people are found captive to empty philosophy, the misguided teachings of a Harlot and a Beast/organization? Rev 18:4-8; Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Col 2:8; Rev 13:1,4-10, 11,12,14-17
  49. 2 points

    JW Dress Rules

    The day I die, I won’t die without them like Doc Halliday. The difference is not clothing. It’s the presentation. If someone goes out of their way to buy $600.00 dollar suit when a $200.00 suit will do just fine, then apply scripture. If a woman is going to spend thousands to look their best, then apply scripture. Rich or poor, it’s the presentation to be clean and well dressed. No one is going to give someone serious credibility seeing a preacher with shorts, or shirtless. How about preaching in your underwear. What good is it to excite and preach at the same time? There are many variables in scripture that doesn’t approach clothing directly like RYAN is attempting to convey, but indirectly with your outer appearance and cleanliness. The Parkway Church: McKinney, Texas > 8 Things the Bible Says About How We Should Dress in Church WHAT YOUR APPEARANCE SAYS ABOUT YOU No needs to go overboard, but be presentable. When did anyone see Jesus dirty in his ministry.
  50. 2 points

    JW Dress Rules

    That just means, the experience you believe you have is obscured by facts. There are children within the numbers. There’s no dispute on that. There are also baptized publishers as well as unbaptized publishers. What percentage accounts for each of those groups? Are children forced? That’s just an opinion railed in ignorance. Does that mean a Christian Evangelist Parent taking their children to church are forcing their children? How about Catholic parents that want their children to have some kind of spiritual structure. Are they forcing their children to have something GOOD in their lives? Especially those parents that encourage their children to the priesthood. Your ideology John is so polluted with your hatred, you and witness should seriously consider professional help. As for the memorial. Everyone is welcomed to attend the memorial to show appreciation to the one who sacrificed himself so that people like you can taint everything Jesus stood for. Even if they don’t attend a Kingdom Hall. It's open to everyone. You criticized RYAN in another thread about his deranged views when yours are almost the same. The difference is, he owns those delusional thoughts of atheism and he isn’t afraid to express them. His D’fd regardless of what he tells people that he wasn’t? That he just walked away which is utter nonsense, but it doesn’t matter. Can you do the same to a panel of Elders? Ask your friends JWinsider and James. How about Anna? What does anyone think the answer will be?

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