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Showing content with the highest reputation on 05/09/2019 in all areas

  1. 3 points
    You crack me up Billy. The level in which you interact with others is very telling. Also, it doesn't hurt my feelings if you down vote my posts. It actually makes me smile..........because you read it.
  2. 2 points
  3. 2 points
    Who are these people but a bunch of flakes like you? So what have they actually confirmed in your puzzled mind? They don't speak for the Watchtower. In their hearts, they are not affiliated to the Watchtower. They speak in the same respect as apostates. Therefore, what possible thing can they prove aside to confirm how inadequate you are in understanding scripture with their understanding? The GB didn't teach you to apply scripture by their standards. They taught you through others to apply scripture by Christ standards, Therefore, what have you taught yourself by learning scripture on your own? To be foolish and an apostate? You really taught yourself something. How embarrassing it will be when someone wants to use somebody like you in a court of law as a witness. It is going to be very easy to prove your personal bias and mental state.
  4. 2 points
    This is very good sentence, from which i read next: All and every moment of efforts numbered here (intensive Bible study, organizational experience, faith in Jehovah, meditation and prayer) reveals one side - human efforts, to gain, what? ....these things are combination of preconditions, causes that will, supposedly, result in spiritual guidance (from above). What i see here is, only/solely working (almost fleshly) efforts of particular human who strive to get, to receive something divinely, spiritually from God, by deeds, by work (aka intensive bible study, more preaching, more meetings etc). What is omitted in this sentence (not by purpose and not from you personally) but by common/general view in WT organization is the role of Second Part in this "equation". Influence and power that depend of that very Person who is The Source of spiritual guidance. Pushing made by/from WTJWORG how person must and have to do this and that and to do it more and more, is something that can be obstacle, dam, close door for Divine Power. Yes, Divine Power destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah or Jericho Walls, BUT it can be very "Powerless" to change human minds and hearts. Because in case of Sodom and Jericho we talking about Naked Power. But when people are involved, this Spirit Force is on Next Level, in my opinion, on level of soft, gently, unobtrusively, discretely actions and effects...... After all, JHVH ask, plead for love by your free will.
  5. 2 points
    Spoken like a true arrogant WT lawyer .... or Gerritt Losch. The bottom line is, you said NO, to my challenge.
  6. 2 points
    Whether this is deliberate or not is a matter of opinion of course. In any case, I would hesitate to say that anyone makes deliberate mistakes unless they are truly evil. So you are suggesting that the GB are evil. Well, I do not think they are evil. No one condones Pedophilia. You make very general sweeping statements here about what and how Witnesses believe. Most of the Witnesses I know (I would say 99.9%) have a deep and private relationship with God themselves, with Jesus as their mediator. It must be just your idea to somehow involve a third party, the GB, in this relationship. I do not know anyone who does that!
  7. 2 points
  8. 2 points
    I had a Brother call me up at 7:30 in the morning, many years ago, asking in desperate need if I had any money I could lend him. I checked my resources, and told him I had $4.00, which I was planning to use for lunch money that day, but he was welcome to that. ...... and he hung up on me. That hamburger at lunch was especially delicious !
  9. 1 point
    Inquiry announces new investigation into child protection in religious organisations and settings 2 May 2019 The Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse has announced a new investigation into child protection in religious organisations and settings. The investigation will be thematic and will review the current child protection policies, practices and procedures in religious institutions in England and Wales. Organisations falling under the remit of this investigation will include non conformist Christian denominations, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Baptists, Methodists, Islam, Judaism, Sikhism, Hinduism and Buddhism. This investigation is separate from our investigations into the Anglican and Roman Catholic churches. Religious settings such as mosques, synagogues, churches and temples are in scope. Places of faith tuition such as Muslim madrassahs and Christian Sunday schools and places where children and young people gather in connection with their religious beliefs, including youth groups and camps will also be investigated by the Inquiry. More than one in 10 survivors of child sexual abuse (11 per cent) who shared their accounts with the Inquiry’s Truth Project reported sexual abuse in a religious institution. Of this group, almost a quarter (24 percent) told the Inquiry they were abused in institutions in scope of this new investigation, including Jehovah's Witnesses, Baptists, Methodists, Judaism and Islam. Not all participants provided details about the religious denomination of the institution or perpetrator. Organisations and individuals are being invited to apply for core participant status. Core participants must have a significant interest in this investigation and have special rights defined by legislation. A preliminary hearing will take place at 2pm on 23 July 2019 and public hearings will take place in 2020. source:
      Hello guest!
  10. 1 point
    Like a Roman Catholic Bishop, who was also a General in the Army of Spain once said, when informed that a Spanish Muslim controlled Fortress contained as many Catholics as Muslims, which he was in the process of defeating and chasing from Spain .... "Kill them all, and let God sort them out!".
  11. 1 point
    I feel better if I can bring a little laughter and happiness to the world ... it makes me sleep better at night.
  12. 1 point
    Well, JWI. Billy himself thought it was funny, and he has no sense of humor whatsoever.
  13. 1 point
    Way over the top there, James, don't you think?
  14. 1 point
    If you actually do decide to laugh you head off, please have someone video it and put it on YouTube.
  15. 1 point
    You surely don't compare your situation with that of Paul's conversion to Christianity do you? Is that the result of your "having studied the bible" yourself? The only similarity apparent is what Jesus said at Acts 26:14. I think you will find that those who "go out" from the Christian congregation due to being of the "wrong sort" actualy fit the description of those in Jesus' illustration of the dragnet as "unsuitable fish" (wrong sort). They are thrown out by the angels, regardless of any illusion they might have of leaving of their own volition. But then of course, as to an individual judgement of such ones, jthe final estimation of their actual worth lies with Jehovah and the man he has appointed. With the right heart, they can still return if they become the right sort. (Of course, even that is by Jehovah's permission as it is he that "draws" men to Christ). However you want to view it, you are not of our sort at present, and the generally patronising tone and insulting content of these postings you make suggest a heart that is abundant in rather unpleasant things at the moment. You and your former congregation are better off the way things are currently. Likely. the same applies to the video makers in the original posting.
  16. 1 point
    Ad copy: Fish tend to avoid it because it slows down the current . . . Translation: The biggest problem is the way it kills so many fish who come up to it because it slows down the current (and might even jam up the turbine, turning it into dam of rotting fish). . . Still, if they can solve that problem with a non-capturing convex rather than a concave mesh screen, for example, it might be an excellent source of off-the-grid power.
  17. 1 point
    James Thomas Rook Jr By not answering, you are declining my offer, in essence saying you won't accept my challenge, so what’s the difference in that puzzled mind of yours. However, I didn’t say no, I declined your offer under the terms you gave. Why flush good money down the toilet. Knows that’s the difference in arrogance. Do you have a humorless cartoon to go along with your evasiveness?
  18. 1 point
    I was baptized in 1964 .. LONG before they changed the rules, and the words, of the Baptismal Corporation Contract ... which evolved over the years as stated above to its current form. which was substantially finished its evolution in 1985. I have no need to reject the current Corporate fealty oath .... as I was baptized in the name of Jehovah, Christ Jesus, and presumably in the Holy Spirit, which I felt very strongly when I was baptized. in 1964 . ... before politics and lawyer driven agenda driven controls screwed the lid down. Those of you who were baptized AFTER 1985 ... I feel very strongly sorry for you. as you have in actual fact dedicated your lives to the current version of "The Organization", and are in actual fact legally liable without recourse. They "got" you. You are morally obligated to keep your oath, as stated at the time you made it. Many people are very happy and content with the new arrangement, and its ramifications. I sincerely hope you are one of them.
  19. 1 point
    In the recent Watchtower book, “Pure Worship of Jehovah, Restored at Last!”, it is stated: “In the past, our literature has referred to Christendom as the antitype of apostate Jerusalem. The conditions in unfaithful Jerusalem—including IDOLATRY AND WIDESPREAD CORRUPTION—certainly remind us of what is happening in Christendom. However, in recent years our publications, including the one you are now reading, have not taken the type-antitype approach to prophecy except where the Bible provides a clear basis for doing so. Is there a solid Scriptural basis for referring to Christendom as the ANTITYPICAL JERUSALEM? NO. In view of the foregoing, what may we conclude? When we examine Bible prophecies that were fulfilled on unfaithful Jerusalem, we may say, ‘This or that reminds us of what we see in Christendom today.’ But there appears to be NO SCRIPTURAL BASIS for referring to Christendom as the antitypical Jerusalem.” Pure Worship of Jehovah—Restored At Last! p. 174 First off, what do they mean by “antitypical”? An “antitype” is, …something that corresponds to or is foreshadowed in a type …or an opposite type. After many years, the Watchtower is now saying Christendom does not correspond in any way to ancient Jerusalem. Jerusalem was the “holy city” of God. Under the New Covenant promise, “Jerusalem above” is the “city whose architect and builder is God”. Heb 11:10 It is referred in scripture as the “mother” of the anointed ones. Luke 22:20; Gal 4:26,24; Heb 9:15 Mothers bring life, and this mother/promise brings immortal life to those faithful sealed anointed ones. Together, they become the “New Jerusalem”, Zion. Heb 12:22,23 As the fulfillment of that New Covenant/promise, “New Jerusalem”, the Holy City, will be seen “coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. Rev 21:2 And, as the fulfilled promise, the Bride will bring life to the rest of the children of God. “And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s DWELLING PLACE is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.” Rev 21:3 Rom 8:19-21; Rev 22:17 The city of Jerusalem was the location of God’s dwelling place – His temple at the time. Today, God “dwells” within the hearts of His anointed priests through His Holy Spirit. His dwelling place, or His “house”, is His Temple. 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6:16; Eph 2:20-22 “New Jerusalem”, the Temple, the Holy City, all refer to one and the same; comprised of this priesthood joined under Christ, their High Priest. Heb 7:26 This makes “New Jerusalem” the “city/house that bears My name”. Acts 7:49; Rev 3:12 If Christendom is no longer taught as the “antitypical” Jerusalem, the organization can no longer point to Christendom to fulfill the many prophetic scriptures that concern the “holy city”/Temple/New Jerusalem. JWs, this means all the earlier teachings by the WT that point to Christendom as that “city” which receives condemnation for its abominations, realistically points to the anointed under covenant with God. The organization admits: “Jerusalem was the ONLY city in all the earth that was DIRECTLY ASSOCIATED WITH GOD’S NAME. (1 Kings 11:36; Matthew 5:35) It was the capital of a God-approved earthly kingdom. 06/7/15 p. 5,6 Past teachings of the WT tell a different story in the following quotes from the Watchtower: #1 – Christendom’s congregations say ‘Lord, Lord,’ even as sexual immorality flourishes in their midst. “Will you steal and murder, commit adultery and perjury, burn incense to Baal and follow other gods you have not known,” Jehovah asks, “and then come and stand before me in THIS HOUSE, WHICH BEARS MY NAME, and say, ‘We are safe’—safe to do all these detestable things?”—Jeremiah 7:4, 8-10, g89/1/22 pg 11 #2 - Christendom will be the FIRST PART of this system of things to go down, for she is the modern-day counterpart of the apostate kingdom of Judah and Jerusalem. To typify that, the kingdom of Judah was made the first to drink the “cup” that contained “the wine of rage.” Jehovah said that it was with “THE CITY UPON WHICH [HIS] NAME IS CALLED” that he would start off in bringing the international calamity. (Jer. 25:29) Unchristlike Christendom is the most accountable religious section before God and Christ, and so from her the world calamity would go, as in a chain reaction. W79/9/15 pp. 22-29, par 23 Now, going back to the same book that declares, “there appears to be no Scriptural basis for referring to Christendom as the antitypical Jerusalem”, the statement is made, #3 - “During the war of Armageddon, Jehovah will execute people, not in a cold, clinical manner, but in a “great rage.” (Read Ezekiel 38:18.) He will direct the explosive force of his anger, not against one army or one nation, but against countless individuals living across the globe. On that day, those slain by Jehovah “will be from one end of the earth clear to the other end of the earth.”—Jer. 25:29, 33. RR, chapter 18, pp. 189-199 Do you notice in all three quotes, reference is made by either listing scripture or by quoting it in the paragraph, to the “city” or “house that bears My name”, which today is the anointed in covenant with God? Paragraph #1 quotes Jer 7:4,8-10: “Do not trust in deceptive words and say, “This is the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord!” “But look, you are trusting in deceptive words that are worthless.9 “‘Will you steal and murder, commit adultery and perjury, burn incense to Baal and follow other gods you have not known, 10 and then come and stand before me IN THIS HOUSE, WHICH BEARS MY NAME, and say, We are safe”—safe to do all these detestable things?” Is it not true that the “safe haven” for JWs is in “Jehovah’s spiritual temple” – the organization and a counterfeit Zion? This idol tramples down the authentic Temple of God, His priesthood. 1 Cor 3:16,17 Isn’t this a sign that God’s people are committing “spiritual adultery and perjury” through their devotion and dedication to “Jehovah’s spiritual temple”? Matt 24:15; 2 Thess 2:3,4, 9-12; Rev 11:1,2; 13:1,4-6 Paragraph #2 quotes Jer 25:29 – “See, I am beginning to bring disaster on THE CITY THAT BEARS MY NAME, and will you indeed go unpunished? You will not go unpunished, for I am calling down a sword on all who live on the earth, declares the Lord Almighty.’” #3 - In this new book, although it clearly states Christendom does not correspond to Jerusalem, again Jer 25:29 is sited, which says the disaster in the last days comes upon THE CITY THAT BEARS MY NAME. Did you catch this, JWs? Can you untwist the history of Watchtower teachings and perceive what and where the disaster will fall? Yet, they deceitfully continue to put the blame of the prophetic disaster to come, on everyone else, except on the now apostate “city that bears My name”, the anointed under covenant with God. Deut 12:2-5; Zech 4:7-9; Rev 6:15,16; 8:8; 16:20 Pearl Doxsey wrote the following in 2013, well before the “new light” (barely visible) came into being: God Himself says of His own people, "The faithful city has become a harlot" Isa.1:21; 63:18; Rev.17:1 Is "Christendom" the "faithful city"? If not...Then it is not the "harlot". Hosea makes clear that this "harlotry" is the act of an "adulterous wife" (Hosea9:1; 1:2; 5:4; 9:1). Being as a wife to God requires a marriage covenant (Isa.54:5,6,7; 48:17; Jer.3:8,14; Hosea2:19; Ps.73:27). Is "Christendom"/"nominal Christians" in covenant with God? Revelation's Harlot is not "Christendom"/"nominal Christians" at all!...but are ruling, unfaithful anointed in covenant with God... the "wicked steward" (Luke12:42,45; Rev.17:6) (Luke12:46; Hosea6:5; Jer.5:14; 23:29; Rev.18:8) and all anointed who stay a part of her organizational Beast, are committing fornication with her (Rev.13:1; 17:2,12,16; 18:9; 1:5; 5:10; John18:36). From within that Sodom-like City, God will cleanse a remnant and restore them, IF they are repentant. They are restored back to being "the city of righteousness, THE FAITHFUL CITY". (Isa.1:25,26,27; Zech.13:9; Mal.3:3; Zech.4:9,6,12,14; Rev.11:4,3; Rev.3:12; 21:2; Ps.48:8) Is that faithful remnant from the city OF JERUSALEM, from "Christendom"? According to Jesus, "Jerusalem" is "the City of the living God/Great King" (Matt.5:35; Ps.48:2). IT IS NOT “CHRISTENDOM”. These prophecies about "Jerusalem" are not about "Christendom". THESE PROPHECIES DO NOT APPLY AS THE “WATCHTOWER” HAS TAUGHT. There is no "anti-typical Jerusalem" according to scripture. If the Bible says "Jerusalem", it means "Jerusalem". While their pride refuses to apply God's warnings and discipline to themselves; the scriptural clarity of "Watchtower" ERROR, is inescapable. The prophets of Jerusalem were compared to Sodom (Jer.23:14). Their land was to become a desolation (Jer.49:18; 50:39; Rev.18:2). This speaks of God's people...Lam.4:6 DO NOT BE DECEIVED! (1Thess.5:3,6,7; Mark13:36,37,35) As a result, can Revelation’s end time fulfillment to come against God’s people, be sourced outside of the Watchtower and outside of where the House/dwelling/now “apostate” city of God resides? No! Not even Watchtower’s interpretation of the “King of the North.” “Son of man, will you judge her? Will you judge this city of bloodshed? Then confront her with all her detestable practices 3 and say: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: You city that brings on herself doom by shedding blood in her midst and defiles herself by making idols, 4 you have become guilty because of the blood you have shed and have become defiled by the idols you have made. You have brought your days to a close, and the end of your years has come. Therefore I will make you an object of scorn to the nations and a laughingstock to all the countries. 5 Those who are near and those who are far away will mock you, you infamous city, full of turmoil. Again the word of the Lord came to me: 24 “Son of man, say to the land, ‘You are a land that has not been cleansed or rained on in the day of wrath.’ 25 There is a conspiracy of her princes within her like a roaring lion tearing its prey; they devour people, take treasures and precious things and make many widows within her. 26 Her priests do violence to my law and profane my holy things; they do not distinguish between the holy and the common; they teach that there is no difference between the unclean and the clean; and they shut their eyes to the keeping of my Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them.27 Her officials within her are like wolves tearing their prey; they shed blood and kill people to make unjust gain. 28 Her prophets whitewash these deeds for them by false visions and lying divinations. They say, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says’—when the Lord has not spoken.29 The people of the land practice extortion and commit robbery; they oppress the poor and needy and mistreat the foreigner, denying them justice. Ezek 22:2-5,23-29 “Armageddon” – Obadiah’s blog Pearl Doxsey, 4womaninthewilderness: “Sodom/Four Horsemen” “End of the New Covenant” “The Disgusting Thing Standing in a Holy Place”Matt 24:15
  20. 1 point
    Don't make a practice of granting credit to fellow Witnesses!!!
  21. 1 point
    That experience could be used at the next convention. Of course, it could be for other reasons. I know some Witnesses here who don't want other Witnesses doing their lawns and landscaping out of concern for privacy among the friends, or just to avoid business dealings and potential misunderstandings. We also had a brother in our congregation who ran a gas station only a quarter mile from the KH, and he was so taken advantage of that an announcement had to be made from the platform that brothers should pay their debts and not expect credit when doing business with fellow Witnesses.
  22. 1 point
    OK. I see where you are coming from on this now. I don't know that the GB instructed the hiding from authorities and others in the congregation, but they certainly have known about the hiding, and have gone along with it, and could have ordered exposure of the problem instead of continued hiding. (In the past, hiding apparently happened in most, but not in all cases.) From that perspective, exposure of such crimes and sins would undoubtedly have reduced the problem. Especially the problem of repeat offenders. There are some cases that will probably never come to light in this system due to the systemic nature of trying to protect the reputation of an organization and leaders at the expense of protecting children. They were late in their correct responses to this problem, in my opinion, but they do see it as a problem. Even if it's exposure and cost. But I know that many have seen it as a problem of justice for the victims, too. Unfortunately, that had previously been dismissed by some in power as less important. Just an analogy to show how someone can be both right and wrong at the same time. There are huge scriptural problems with this claim of the GB to be the exact and complete fulfillment of the FDS. I've dealt with that elsewhere. But we can't forget that it is a Christian duty to try to feed spiritual food to fellow Christians. The GB truly believe this is their duty and they also know that they are not perfect, and must admit to providing wrong guidance at times and sometimes bad spiritual food, too, in the form of false doctrines and false predictions. They probably thought them right at the time, but you are right, that it was not all 'food at the proper time.' People guided by God have made mistakes in Biblical times, when the very same persons had the privilege of seeing Jesus personally, or were even inspired at other times to write books of the Bible. Yet, the GB make no such claim about themselves that they are inspired in this same way. They feel that intensive Bible study, organizational experience, faith in Jehovah, meditation and prayer will all combine in some spiritual way to guide them. Other people have made claims that they claim inspiration, and the distinction gets blurry. And some Witnesses teach "present" truth as immutable in such a way that they, too, have blurred the distinction. In any case, God is not misguiding. It's just that people are so imperfect that we must learn to trust and obey God as ruler rather than sons of men in whom no salvation belongs. No. The inability to question something is often because something just seems so clear and obvious that we just can't imagine that it could ever be wrong. Or it has been repeated so often that we can't imagine it could be wrong. We don't question things we are "sure" of. It happens to all of us, and then we might be surprised some day to find out we were wrong after all. But by not questioning, we probably will never have to find out. So the early Corinthian congregation must also have been an unclean organization. Jesus' organization of his apostles must have been an unclean organization, too. I think it will come close to that. It won't come immediately, but there will be some countries soon, I think, where we won't be allowed to preach unless we stop shunning family members for example. We will agree, and shunning will become a personal, private thing. Most Witnesses don't want to shun, we just do it because we are told it is loving. When there is no longer any threat of getting in trouble for not shunning, most of us will see that it is more loving not to shun. The change will happen organically from that point. Food at the proper time.
  23. 1 point
    Transcript - John Foster - Doing the Very Best I Can.pdf
  24. 1 point
    This type of “hit piece” reporting ( it doesn’t matter who the target is) has a way of resolving into nothing. (Now, if I should see him in there every single day........)
  25. 0 points
    Having read lots of comments on this forum it is very easy to see that all that Jehovah's Witnesses have is their belief in their Governing Body and it's Writing Department. If they believe, as a certain cowboy would have it, that a person can gain no true knowledge from the bible itself, then how else does a person gain true knowledge ? It would seem that Jehovah's Witnesses rely totally on their GB 'boses' and on the Writing Department of same, to tell all JW's what to believe and when to believe it. Why do i say 'and when to believe it' ? Well you have to keep up you know . What is said to be 'truth' by the GB and co one day, will be said to be totally untrue the next day or week. JW's have nothing, no proof of any 'enlightenment' from above. They talk proudly about having 8.5 million members earthwide, but how many Muslims are there earthwide ? How many Catholics earthwide ? Numbers prove nothing as it can be clearly seen. Yes I was once fooled by all the 'niceness' of a few brothers and sisters. But once I got to know those people properly I soon found out that they are no better than people in the world. The JW Org is no better than any other organisation that pretends to serve God, but the JW Org is in some ways more dangerous. It wraps itself around people's lives and restricts people's freedom of thinking. It pretends to have 'special knowledge' from God that no other organisation has. But then if one looks closely one can see it is all just a smoke screen. The JW Org only has 8 men in America dominating it, and 8.5 million people worshiping those 8 men. I do feel a bit foolish having wasted years of my life believing all of it's lies and deceit, but I congratulate myself for not being frightened to ask questions and do research for myself. No matter what any Jehovah's Witness tells you, the truth is, all they have is a belief in their GB, and they follow their GB's orders via all the others in charge including the puppet men Elders. At meetings, conventions, assemblies, on the ministry et al, all they do is use the literature provided for them by the GB and the Writing dept. Without question they pump this 'information' into other people. When conducting a supposed 'bible study' it is actually a book study, studying the words of the GB / writing dept, not studying God's written word properly. They spend more time reading the paragraphs and answering those questions than they do reading scriptures and focusing on God's words. It is a horrid way of brainwashing people, washing out the common sense and replacing it with lies from the GB / writing dept. Dictating, giving orders and pretending it is God's will. Removing the love that people have for one another and replacing it with discrimination. Shunning family members, turning their back on anyone that is not a JW by saying all other people are just 'part of the world' and therefore wicked. Frightening people with threats of 'armageddon' killing them. And now it seems that they are almost begging for contributions as they seem to be getting short of money. Well paying off millions in compensation for the Child Abuse / Pedophilea of course. Selling off Kingdom Halls too as funds run low. Oh how low that religion has sunken. Are they really stupid enough to believe that God is with them ?
  26. 0 points
    Well if you put it like that @Outta Here I suppose I went out from JW Org because I'm not a Pedophilie and I don't condone Pedophilia, so I proved that I an not of that 'sort'. Your quote of scripture not mine. As for me being an 'idolator' and then realising it, you are right. Exactly right. I did serve the JW Org as I thought it had 'truth'. But now having studied the bible myself without the misguidance of the JW Org, I see through the veneer of the GB domination. @JW Insider has just confirmed much of what I believe about the GB and it's Org. @James Thomas Rook Jr. says he has proof of same, if he is being serious. Actually i have 'come clean' about it many times on this forum. Maybe you don't read many of my posts. However, I always think of Saul that thought he was doing right until Jesus showed him what was really right. Saul would never have become Paul without guidance from Jesus Christ. Maybe, just maybe, Jesus sees those in JW Org that think they are doing right but are doing wrong, then maybe Jesus shows them the right way. Maybe Jesus will help people to leave the JW Org and to find the right way to serve God. I haven't given up hope In God through Christ. Quoter "some temporary relief for the resentment and embarrassment they feel," Do you really think the Apostle Paul felt that ? Look how off track Paul was, but Jesus guided him in the right direction. Do you think Paul was embarrassed ? I think Paul was too busy doing God's will to be concerned for his own embarrassment. I'm also too busy to be embarrassed. Oh by the way the scripture you have used doesn't match the purpose you had for it. : "They went out from us ... But they went out ... Does not = But, actually, they were rejected To leave of one's own accord is not being discarded or rejected, it is LEAVING OF ONE'S OWN ACCORD.
  27. 0 points
    James Thomas Rook Jr It might be you have about 2TB’s of false allegations and speculations marred with personal assumptions. The same kind of stored information by dimwitted apostates. However, I wouldn’t allow such a damaged person mail what would be clearly tainted material without the option of a refund. But if you wish to take the challenge JWinsider, AKA TrueTom, I will go one step further to allow a secular court deliberate on such a matter with your supplied information. However, If the evidence does not satisfy the court, I will compel the court to charge you personally. Care to take the Challenge? Therefore, In God I trust, and slanders go to jail.
  28. 0 points
    BillyTheKid46: I have somewhere in my 12TB array of 4TB USB hard drives documents from the WT that prove all the assertions you deny here and now. In about two days time I could find, correlate and present them to you .... but in the meantime my recollections only will have to give testimony that you are suffering from a major case of agenda driven WDS . Since you are a Jehovah's Witness in good standing, I will give you a 20% discount to search for them, print them out for you and mail them to you .... after your check clears the bank. My usual rate is $105 an hour, and I would need a two day's retainer to get started. I would refund any funds not used. Care to put your money where your mouth is?
  29. 0 points
    Oh @JW Insider it's probably not worth the effort to answer you but I have a bit of time before my darling wife puts my dinner on the table for me. Let's start with a Quote "You probably know that there were infamous cases of immorality that Paul referred to in his letters even to the very Corinthian congregations that Paul himself had "planted." Are look Paul made the immorality known. Whereas, the Elders of the JW congregations hid it all in leters to their HQ and in filing cabinets. Why did the elders hide it ? Because on instructions from the GB. That's why it is all coming into the open now. It follows scripture about 'nothing being hidden that will not be revealed' ... Quote " But when the Org sees it as a problem, .. " The Org didn't see it as a problem. It was put 'in their face' by victims of abuse. The problem the GB saw was the cost of the court cases and compensations. Why do you use examples of people 'of the world' such as Isaac Newton etc ? They were not 'supposed to be guided by God's Holy Spirit' were they ? Your GB pretend to be the 'Faithful and discreet slave' providing the PROPER FOOD at the RIGHT TIME'. BUT they have to keep changing the food as they give poison instead. So how can they be guided by God to do that ? Do you really think God deliberately misguides His people ? Quote "I can't see how it "suits themselves." The Armageddon threats are obviously to frighten people to get baptised and serve the JW Org. I'm sure we've had quotes on here where the Watchtowers would say the only way to 'get saved' through Armageddon was to be in the Org. More members = more donations. But then, as with the 7,000 year creative days, it all falls apart and can be seen as lies. Quote "the inability to question 1914" ? Are you suggesting more lies ? Quote "It's now just a matter of fully implementing the processes that have been put in place." And the two witness rule, what of that ? I'm sure in my own mind that the scripture was not for that use. Quote " I think we agree completely on shunning. I have no doubt at all that we have been implementing the shunning practice in an unchristian, unscriptural, and unloving manner. " So are we looking at a 100% turnaround on it then ? I very much doubt that. Remember ,'By their works you will know them'. Quote " I would never claim we are more moral than any other group of people.". That's one thing we can agree on then. But that being the case, thousands of JW's are hypocrites. So it's an unclean Org. Quote "If enough Witnesses perform their Christian duty, however, even a mass of disfellowshippings will automatically produce changes. " I was hoping for a mass 'leaving the JW Org when I left, but it didn't happen. I was hoping that would have produced change. Enough for now , my wife is calling me to dinner.
  30. -1 points
    WOW!!! - Starts at 2:00 about his JW topic. Sad if it's true that Parents were the culprit, but goes to show how sometimes one can "irritate" their children. I've seen it happen too.
  31. -1 points
    There's a simple message in this video that doesn't require watching all 10 of them, or waiting to hear the "rest of the story". The reason I posted it is only to show the contradiction of Watchtower’s teachings, and what the consequences are for not having FAITH in the organization. Rev 13:4 What was told him on the day of baptism is also quoted in the Bible Teach Book: Baptism represents something very important. When you are immersed in water, it means that you have died to, or abandoned, your former way of life. When you come out of the water, you will begin a new life doing God’s will. It shows that you will serve Jehovah from now on. Remember that you are not dedicated to a human, an organization, or a work. You have dedicated your life to Jehovah. "Should I Dedicate My Life to God and be Baptized?" par 24 Hundreds of people are disfellowshipped every year for rejecting the organization, but STILL maintain their faith in God and Christ. What the C.O. stated is exactly what the organization believes. Rev 13:15 If one doesn’t put faith in the organization, their faith is garbage. Watchtower 79/3/1, pg 12-18, the article is entitiled, "FAITH IN JEHOVAH'S VICTORIOUS ORGANIZATION" God is NOT an organization. We are to put faith only in Him and His Son. “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments. Exod 20:4-6 Only those who see the hypocrisy and face the day they question it, will understand what this man is going through. I just hope there is a JW here asking the same questions as this man has.
  32. -1 points
    GB Helper quote: "That person's relationship with JHVH is forever ruined. JHVH discards the person like a piece of garbage." GB terminology: sinful person is garbage CO terminology: someone's (person's) faith is garbage "Garbage" is in WTJWORG lexic. And can be using for determining some person's spiritual or literal position inside WTJWORG or in front JHVH God.
  33. -1 points
    You are saying it is assumed that all those disfellowshipped for rejecting the organization, will reject God's standards as well. I doubt the elders have the ability to peer into the future and determine that the person they are disfellowshipping , will soon become trinitarians, homosexuals, etc. God's standards require rejection of idolatry. Exod 20: 4,5; Judges 10:14; Isa 44:9;46:3-5; Acts 4:12; 7:49-51; 17:24;25; Rev 13:1:4-7 God's standards require rejection of false prophesy. Deut 18:20-22; Ezek 13:9; Matt 7:15-20; 24:24; 2 Tim 4:3,4; Acts 20:28-30; 1 John 4:1; Rev 13:11,15 JWs may say they have faith in God, but practice both idolatry and tolerate false prophesy.
  34. -1 points
    @Anna I cannot believe you said / wrote this. Are you drunk ? I left the JW Org because of God's high standards. Because the GB and it's Org are going against God's high standards. Are you totally blind to the Child Abuse within JW Org ? Are you blind to the shunning of people that leave the JW Org for the right reasons ? Are you blind to the lies / misuse of scriptures / changing of use of scriptures ? Do you think JW's have a higher standard of morals than other people ? Are you so blinded by the smokescreen of hypocrisy in the JW Org ? Are you so dominated by those 8 men in charge and by the Elders that act as policemen ? Sorry Anna, I think that your comment is so naive.
  35. -1 points
    @JW Insider Yes I'm upset that you choose to point it out. You are talking like an Elder. This isn't one of your Kingdom Halls so don't try to dominate me. Have you ever read Billy the Kid's comments, saying that I need medical attention ? That's ok is it ? And TTH has mentioned my past situation causing me problems etc. My comment to Anna was about her comment not about the video. OK, let's get down to basics. what exactly was Anna saying about people that reject the JW Org ? She was saying that ex-JW's rejected God's standards. I'm an ex JW so does that include me ? Anna was saying that ex JW's are not good enough to serve God. That is just what the GB and JW Org want people to believe. It's part of the brainwashing. It stops many JW's asking any questions. I was hurt by Anna's comment and I'm equally hurt by yours. But then you are both JW's so what more should I expect. I think TTH has said this is basically an open forum and we must all accept what others say. Things hurt me and I try to 'let it go by' (quoting Joe Cocker) but I don't expect people to talk down to me as if they are an Elder in a KH. Are you an elder ? Your name makes me think you are a 'spy' 'Insider'. Whistleblower. But probably an Elder too. Maybe you should stay in the 'Private Club' which is probs more 'soft' for you. If @admin thinks I'm out of line I'm sure they will give me a warning or ban me from the forum.
  36. -1 points
    My goodness topic wars. (A bit like Robot Wars only funnier) We we are all totally off topic of course and we all have our own opinions. @BillyTheKid46 I honestly don't know who is a Witness and who is an ex-Witness, or who was never a Witness at all My opinion was that @JW Insider is still a Witness but working for both sides, a bit like Judas did. My feelings are that he/she thinks the JW Org as a whole has the 'truth' but that maybe the GB are going off track. As for @Anna , I'm totally confused. I thought she, I presume she is a she, was a Witness as I thought she wrote in the present time about her kingdom hall and elders. And you Billy, even you confuse me. Sometimes I think you are a Witness and other times I think you are a religious person but not a Witness. Hence, everyone, I tell you this, once again. When I upvote or downvote or make reference to a comment, it is ONLY about that ONE comment. One reason for that is I have a bad memory and cannot remember ten comments back, and a second reason is that a lot of the time,such as now, we are totally off topic anyway, so we cannot be commenting on the actual topic heading. I do wish people would be their real selves, real names, real photos, etc. It would make my life so much easier. Good morning From me in Devon England at 9.30am. I am not a robot
  37. -1 points
    @JW Insider If the Society / GB and all in 'command' had acted in the way that Paul was saying in that 1 Corinthians 9 19-23 scripture, then the Earthwide Child Abuse / Pedophilia would never have happened. But you seem to see it as just collateral damage, necessary for the 'progress' of the Org. Quote "Still the core of the religion itself is one that does perhaps the best job of all religions in fighting the machinations of the Devil: " How can that be so when many of the beliefs are based on lies or misinformation and meanings of scripture constantly change to suit the purpose of the GB ? And also as I've mentioned above the Child Abuse. And you yourself mentioned the Armageddon threats from the Org. When in honesty they have no real idea. They keep moving the goalposts to suit themselves. And of course the shunning we will never agree on but we can agree to differ. And I've only just spotted this "and pointing out the value of Christian morality", now that has to be a joke. And the "We must question." Really ? and get disfellowshipped for doing so.
  38. -1 points
    @BillyTheKid46 Quote "Therefore, John, this is really not off topic. If there was an overseer that said OUR FAITH IS GARBAGE AND NEEDS TO BE TORN DOWN This is exactly what it means, with the examples given here." The overseer does not have that authority from God. Neither does your GB fake 'faithful slave class ' But if you need to worship the GB then so be it. Putting your faith in MEN is against God and against His written word and you know it. You will be judged for doing that. As for me, yes, I am lost in many ways. I cannot understand why God does not make it more plain to humans which way to worship Him. I won't repeat scripture concerning the anointed as you will totally reject it again. As for the 2 Peter 2 scripture well we can all have own own opinion of it. I think it refers to the Anointed... Verse 20 is needed to fully get the idea of it all.. It is quite easy for those inside and outside of the JW Org to see how those 'taking the lead' act as bullies. The threat of Armageddon is one point. Pretending it is 'so close' when it could be hundreds of years away.
  39. -1 points
    @BillyTheKid46 Are you actually a Jehovah's Witness ? I'm beginning to think not Quote "There are several reasons why a person would go directly to hell do not pass; go " There is no 'hell'. Only death and a possible resurrection. I say possible because not everyone, it seems, gets a resurrection. The dead are conscious of nothing at all. I feel sure enough that i will be dead a long time before Judgement Day arrives. Then it will be in the hands of Jesus Christ as to if i get a resurrection or not. And I cannot imagine that people will be resurrected just to be punished. And your comment " Is telling people the truth, bullying, " . JW's don't know the truth as they keep changing their ideas to suit themselves. JW's worship their GB by accepting everything the GB say. The Elders worship their GB by doing everything their GB tells them to do, without asking questions and without conscience or moral thoughts. And once again i say, your GB have no authority from God or from Jesus Christ. Your GB are false prophets and fake 'slaves'. They have proved themselves false and fake by their words and deeds.
  40. -1 points
    @Anna I would love to see who you really are, to see you as a person that is so blind to the deliberate faults of JW Org. Your long answer is so full of, I think the GB call it garbage. But I'll probs get told off for saying that... It is true that ultimately God reads hearts and reads motives, and that we cannot judge anyone, Well it's good that Jesus Christ read the heart of Saul, when Saul was persecuting the early Christians isn't it ? Otherwise the Apostle Paul would not have existed. Quote " For example there are those who condone things that God hates and implicitly rejects (eg. practicing homosexuals). " I see you didn't mention Pedophilia then. You really are blind. Quote "Firstly, the organization is only in place because of the preaching work. " BUT, the message keeps changing to suit the GB and it's writing dept'. Scripture is deliberately misused to misguide innocent people. The Catholic church is earthwide too with it's false message, so not much difference there. Quote "Secondly, the organization strives to strictly adhere to the scriptures." Anna, wake up, the Org misuses scriptures. The 'This Generation' scripture is a great example. The 'Superior Authorities' scripture is another example. Are you being deliberately blind to all this ? Quote "Also, as far as I am aware, those who "leave the org." do not continue to preach, and no longer strictly adhere to the scriptures. " 1. I do not preach anymore because I realise now that i only preached what I was told to preach, and that was not serving God it was serving the JW Org. I am quite prepared to admit that I do not know what 'truth' is, so i would not know what to preach. I truly believe that the scriptures, well the deeper parts thereof, are for the Anointed and that the scripture concerning 'ten men clinging to the skirt of a Jew' will take place when God makes it truly known who the Spiritual Jew' really is. 2. As for 'strictly adhere to the scriptures.' You are right in my case, but then i was never doing so anyway as I was serving an Organisation, so I was never strictly adhering to scriptures and the Society, GB, JW Org, never did and still do not. Quote "There are also many that do not see those things you listed as reasons to leave the org. " That is because those people serve the Org as their god. They do not look for truth, they are just spoonfed and accept it all. Even when the meanings of scriptures are changed by the GB or writing dept', the congregants do not even question it, they dare not for fear of being disfellowshipped. Those poor people do not know any other life, they are trapped inside that giant bubble, and frightened to look for God themselves. They rely on men that are not anointed with Holy Spirit, to guide them. The blind leading the blind, and we know what happens next.
  41. -1 points
    That's a very revealing statement about where you would love to live, but it would certainly explain a Lot (and Lot's wife, even more so).
  42. -1 points
    I saw an example of that after Outta Here made a complaint about a post with profanity and I saw a lesser example of his (Ryan's) profanity in the past. I hate to see profanity here too, especially because it pushes people away who might otherwise add something more valuable here. But there is a big difference between profanity against an ideology and directing profanity at a specific person. For example, you are well aware, I'm sure, that that "Allen Smith" was banned after repeated warnings not about profanities but about wild, raging rants that were directed at specific people. Allen acted the part of a cyber-bully. He was not just judgmental but was threatening. Personally I felt badly for persons who might have felt bullied and threatened, but I also considered that all the persons who participated here had already seen many examples from him, that ranged from pathetic to deranged. Therefore, it was likely understood that his threats were not actually meaningful and they therefore carried more "entertainment" value than anything else. This is why I was against banning Allen, because I thought it more likely that his readers here were mature enough to see through him. For those who didn't want to be entertained in such a way, they could personally block him. I also thought that some of his ad hominem attacks (against the person instead of attempting to respond to an argument) actually strengthened the other person's argument with Allen inadvertently admitting that he could think of no actual response to the evidence itself. It was only after the warnings that he would be banned that Allen started using profanities. Allen's surprising profanities may have helped some other people think they understand why he was banned, but they were not the real reason. The real reason was always the bullying, in my opinion.
  43. -1 points
    You probably know that there were infamous cases of immorality that Paul referred to in his letters even to the very Corinthian congregations that Paul himself had "planted." So it doesn't seem reasonable that if the GB had acted as Paul was saying that Child Abuse / Pedophilia would somehow no longer be a problem. No, I don't see it as just collateral damage. But when the Org sees it as a problem, I do think it's necessary for its leaders to do all they can to remove it, and "progress" in processes and procedures that can be seen to help eliminate it. I had said that "the core of the religion itself is one that does perhaps the best job of all religions in fighting the machinations of the Devil" to which you replied: You are asking how it can be logical I guess that someone can be right on some things and not on others. I think you probably already know of many examples. Isaac Newton was right on a surprising number of things, but was wrong on some things, too, and only partially right on many things that he could not have been fully aware of at the time, so that he is still considered right for all practical purposes on many of those things. Aristotle, Pythagoras, St. Augustine, Jerome, Attilla the Hun, Martin Luther, Charles Taze Russell, probably even Hitler were both right on things and wrong on things. We remember them for their overall value or detriment to people or societies. Misinformation reaches us from liars, but usually from people who truly believe the misinformation, even if it does NOT suit their own purposes. Can you imagine that Rutherford really thought he was lying when he predicted that the "Old Testament" princes like Abraham and David would come back in 1925? If so, he was preparing to be made fun of, to be seen as a fool. He evidently even admitted that he had made an a** of himself, according to the Watchtower. That doesn't strike me as trying to suit his own purposes. Just as with Rutherford, I can't see how it "suits themselves." It's because of misinformation that they have believed for the same reason that we have believed it. GB are chosen not because of their ability to question, but because of their "loyalty." In other words, they are chosen for their reputation of not questioning. But when they get into that position, they realize that questions do come at them that are difficult to answer. Except for the "generation" fiasco, I think most changes since around 2000 or so have been for the better. And the only reason for the "generation" fiasco is the inability to question 1914. It seems like just too much of a coincidence. It took a while, but I think they've almost gone as far as they can as of the most recent Watchtower article that covers this topic. It's now just a matter of fully implementing the processes that have been put in place. There is still a matter of compensating for the past, and this is a difficult issue to be discussed elsewhere, I hope. I think we agree completely on shunning. I have no doubt at all that we have been implementing the shunning practice in an unchristian, unscriptural, and unloving manner. I can see our practice as OK from an "OT" perspective, but not at all from a "NT" perspective. If I get in complete trouble with the Org, it will be because I refuse to shun beyond what is written in the scriptures. I am more concerned about being in trouble with Jehovah than with humans in an organization. And even then, if I am shunned, it does not mean that I will shun in return. As far as it depends upon us, we should work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to us in the faith. No. Very serious. I think that moral cleanliness is preached correctly, even though we see that there are exceptions to how it is practiced. Many Witnesses lead double lives. Many are involved in adultery, fornication, child sexual abuse, spousal abuse, violence against children, cheating, lying, drugs, etc. But most aren't, and most appreciate the value and reminders we get from the platform. Most of us appreciate the association of like-minded persons who also wish to remain clean. I have heard persons say that they wish they could only hire Seventh Day Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses, one time from a person who didn't know I was a Witness. I know of worldly persons who have come into the congregation to try to find a wife from among JWs, based on admiration of their morals. I would never claim we are more moral than any other group of people. But I think we have the best advantage in terms of an overall call to morality that includes not only personal morality, but a realization that we should not even be tainted by immorality of commercial greed, nationalistic murderous wars, etc. Sure. It might turn out to be a temporary sacrifice for some of us. Some of us might have found ways to question and avoid any consequences. If enough Witnesses perform their Christian duty, however, even a mass of disfellowshippings will automatically produce changes. Open questioning of doctrines at Bethel became common as early as 1974 when it was obvious that 1975 would not likely turn out as Fred Franz had been repeatedly hinting at, even though he didn't predict "1975." (He only predicted what must happen before the 1970's were complete, because of 1975.) Questions became open at Bethel tables, and around Bethel "water coolers" until a crackdown began happening in mid-1978 through 1979. People got dismissed and disfellowshipped in large numbers, but this also resulted in a backlash and exposure of the witch hunting and star-chamber methods. I think the Internet itself is already resulting in a flood of questions all over again that are proving very valuable. It is these that have been been driving many of the new (and better) doctrinal changes since 2000.
  44. -1 points
    Isn't this something we all should remember? Great point John
  45. -1 points
    If you don't mind for my interruption in your's conversation. Isaac Newton or other similar person hasn't, as i know, created Organization in which people will worship someone or something. Isaac not made GB of self and few friends of him who interpreted Bible or some other Holy Book. Religious nation as JW members, expecting more from GB than followers of Isaac would expected from him. Isaac was not made statements how he and his friends are only channel for spiritual food. :)) Saul of Tarsus believed in his strong "misinformation", that was based on Scriptures. He was "chosen" by JHVH for two task. One task was to persecute Jesus's followers. Second task was that to put Saul under power that will change his "suited misinformation" and his wrong, misdirected "loyalty". Would Saul became Paul without his "wrong" way of worshiping? In fact, What was wrong with his faith in God when Scriptures teaches him to be zealous for JHVH name and to excommunicate (prosecute and persecute) all Jew who not worship god according to the Law? Dear JW Insider. Can i, by some of your perspective, make conclusion, how GB are in same/similar position and how in their "loyalty" and "misinformation zealous" also making forms of "prosecution and persecution" of those who disagree with the GB Law, because they see how their (god's) Organizing and Interpretations of Divine Will is Process of Rowing to the Some More Perfect and Final Point of worshiping god in the future? This is interesting. I have some specific personal experience about this. In one period of time i was jobless, and working many jobs including gardening. One day (between 2002-2005 i think) sister Tekla, while working on reception desk in Zagreb Betel received telephone call from one woman (Adventist) who are looking for JW who will gardening (shearing the grass and similar) in her garden. Tekla called me and i made phone call to this Lady and was working there for several seasons. Well, this Adventist woman was show more confident in JW than in her brothers from her congregation :)) (A little self praise and humor - she was lucky that i was that one who get this call from Betel ahahhaha)
  46. -1 points
    According to who, you, Anna, James? that's laughable. But now you can be friends with John. That's what opposers go for, to have a conflicted person saying I'm a witness when they are not. But all these conclusions fit nicely with the post, it's all garbage. Since you like making serious allegations, I hope you have proof. I will challenge your idiotic allegations. Where's your proof the GB instructed anyone to destroy, hide, burn documents. Where's your proof, Allen Smith used profanity and you warned that person. Where's the proof, that was a reason that person was "deleted" while RYAN continues as a member. I contacted that person, and that person is mounting a legal challenge for you personally. Therefore, don't weasel your way out, the posts have been recorded.
  47. -1 points




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