Jump to content


Popular Content

Showing content with the highest reputation on 08/31/2019 in all areas

  1. 1 point
    @BillyTheKid46, I thought you mostly just employed @Foreigner for vote spamming. I see you are doing some of the dirty work under your own name. And I also see you are nowhere near done yet, because you have added several more just since I copied the two images below. What's odd, however is that "both" of you have now voted down posts that contained nothing more than scriptures quoted from the NWT, and just above in this same topic, only 4 posts back, you (and Foreigner, of course) downvoted a post that does no more than introduce 3 Watchtower quotes about how long it took Adam to name the animals with surrounding context. Are you really that embarrassed by quotes from the Watchtower that you found it necessary to give two down votes to these Watchtower quotes????
  2. -1 points
    Actually I think he's doing really well, if he's still alive. Look him up in JW library, or probably the cd.
  3. -1 points
    To most it just means that we have faith in the Slave that they will not ask us to do anything unreasonable, even though they have asked us to obey in the future even if it does seem unreasonable. I don't think they will ask us to do anything more unreasonable than some of the unreasonable requests on blood doctrine inconsistencies, organ transplants, divorce for "spiritual" adultery (but not for areas of immorality they have not yet defined under the scope of porneia), etc. They will, evidently, ask us to believe things that are unreasonable or even patently untrue. Men in leadership positions can't usually go more than a few weeks without needing someone to believe something that isn't reasonable or true. That's also the nature of human leadership. That seems to get worse with committees as often as it gets better.
  4. -1 points
    I never even knew there was a 'keep out' time. I cannot think of any scripture to back that up.
  5. -1 points
    Even though I was disfellowshipped for apostasy, I was told I could “return to Jehovah and his organization” if I had a repentant heart. No mention of time limit after that was given; and no followup for years now, to see if indeed, I have a repentant heart defined by the WT. *What methods do apostates use to achieve their aim? They often resort to distortions, half-truths, and outright falsehoods. Jesus knew that his followers would be victimized by those who would “tell all kinds of evil lies against” them. (Matthew 5:11, Today’s English Version) 1 Tim 6:3-5 - If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4 they are conceited and understand nothing. They have an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions5 and constant friction between people of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. w13 11/15 p. 20 - At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not. w 04/9/1 p. 15,16 - Deceptive reasonings. The apostle Paul states: “Do not be carried away with various and strange teachings.” (Hebrews 13:9) What sort of teachings? Since they can ‘carry us away,’ it is clear that Paul refers to teachings that undermine our spiritual balance. Who are voicing such strange teachings? Paul told a group of Christian elders: “From among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.” (Acts 20:30) Who acts as the “faithful steward” appointing themselves “from among” God’s anointed household? Luke 12:42-48 *Such malicious opposers would tell what is not true with the intent to deceive others. The apostle Peter warned about apostates who would use “counterfeit words,” spread “deceptive teachings,” and ‘twist the Scriptures’ to their own ends. (2 Peter 2:3, 13; 3:16) Sadly, apostates succeed in “subverting the faith of some.”—2 Timothy 2:18. 04/2/15 16-17 The large majority of Watchtower’s followers will never leave deceptive teachings and their source, such as 1975, 1925, “this generation”; that Zion is a visible organization and not found in the hearts of “living stones” of the Temple of God. 1 Pt 2:5,9,10; Eph 2:20-22; that it is okay for God’s priesthood/Temple to be ruled by men not anointed. 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2; 13:5-7,18 JWs may question their leaders and their intent when “new light” emerges, but their hearts will be inclined to “wait on Jehovah” to correct teachings that have been revealed as untrue. The captivating offer of a spiritual paradise and a “thousand years of peace” to come is very difficult to give up, leaving one facing the unknown, outside of the walls of presumed “peace and security”. 1 Thess 5:3; 1 Col 2:8; Rev 13:5-10 w86 4/1 p. 31- Approved association with Jehovah’s Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses. 2 Pet 2:1-3 - But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping. Fabricated stories unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses, are various and strange teachings that use deceptive reasoning, and may not appear practical from a human standpoint , causing an undermining of our spiritual balance. Each lie robs a JW from the sound reasoning of Christ’s teachings. This is denying the Christ, which means to “contradict, i.e. disavow, reject, abnegate”, his teachings, through the introduction of destructive heresies by false teachers found among God’s anointed ones. Rev 13:11,12 And I am the apostate as well as my “brothers” and fellow believers in Christ - those who rely not on men and their falsehoods, but only on the teachings of Christ who is in the Father? Satan can twist an entire foundation of beliefs by applying what is true, to what is false. It is called a “delusion”. 2 Thess 2:9-12 -The coming of the lawless one is based on Satan’s working, with all kinds of false miracles, signs, and wonders, 10 and with every wicked deception among those who are perishing. They perish because they did not accept the love of the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends (to “bid a thing to be carried to one”) them a strong delusion so that they will believe the lie, 12 so that all will be condemned—those who did not believe the truth but delighted in unrighteousness. Matt 7:24-27 - “Therefore, everyone who hears these words of mine and acts on them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain fell, the rivers rose, and the winds blew and pounded that house. Yet it didn’t collapse, because its foundation was on the rock. (John 2:19-21; Matt 16:18; 1Cor 10:3,4) 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and doesn’t act on them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 The rain fell, the rivers rose, the winds blew and pounded that house, and it collapsed. It collapsed with a great crash.” What do you think? Should we give them 6 months or a year? 2 Pet 3:8,9
  6. -1 points
    Srecko Sostar

    Justified war

    I think that the wars of the first Israel were wars for the land, territory. But let us recall on some important details i have found before some 20 years ago when faced with this historical reports in Bible. Abraham, a forefather of the future nation of Israel, was extremely wealthy and gained possession over large areas of land. But as time passed, there have been several things. That land that Abraham acquired or bought during his life, and legally left to his successors/heirs after his death, somehow was went to, passed on other individuals, families, people, tribes, and nations. Please recall, for example, how he bought land for grave , for his wife. I can imagine how that was not some small piece of land, but huge territory. After long time, we saw how his tribe and grandsons moved to Egypt and left or sold territory. But we also must think about how many people in time of Great Famine sold possessions they have for food. Well, many people gave "money", sold animals, gold, silver, houses, sold land, territory and finally themselves to Pharaoh ( and Joseph) for food. Such sale was "legitimate" and many lost their property under these circumstances. I suppose how some part of the territory or perhaps all that land that once belonged to Abraham, Israel slaves want back, in this way or that way, because they consider themselves as "legitimate" heirs. But, because that land has been in the possession of others for several hundred years already, question was: how to return land back to them? Only by war and conquest. Issue of religion, worshiping and gods has been of second importance, or another good reason/motivation why to go to war. Fighting for "Freedom" and for "Homeland" and for "Own People" was always powerful force that leads people.
  7. -1 points
    Srecko Sostar

    Justified war

    Exactly. Imagine "Legal Battle" between Lawyers Team of Israeli slaves and Pharaoh's Lawyers ? :)) Of course, do not imagine. Read report about Moses who came before Pharaoh and ask him to let go slaves live the Egypt. Moses = attorney. Slaves = party to the proceedings. Intellectual reasoning was insufficient. Next step was application of force in several phases and of different intensity. Justified? Don't know. But Bible report said how many people (including Egyptians) sold themselves for bread. And which idea that was? Joseph's idea as Prime minister for Pharaoh. Well, it seems how he has established or strengthened the existing ones, slave system, in Egypt. His father and brothers (68 who came from Canaan in Egypt) left own land because of famine. And they said to Pharaoh how they will stay in Egypt for short time. But they stay much longer, Even after famine has stopped (few years) they not went back. Only to buried their father Jacob. I suppose how not only Joseph, but also all his brothers and their families, have much privileges in Egypt. And it is possible how they have own slaves for themselves. Question is, why they not went back to Canaan after famine has stooped? They were very wealthy before and they get to be more wealthy in their stay in Egypt. Their father Jacob lived last 17 years in Egypt before he died (famine lasted 7 years). Justified wars? Justified slavery? Justified wealthy? .......etc ????? :))) All these and many more are misconceptions. Misconceptions that we creating and we destroying. Always over again.
  8. -1 points
    Explain please ? I thought it was self evident, but since you asked me to (partially) explain ....... Their Justice system is set up to be accessible to everyone,...open... transparent ... AND ACCOUNTABLE if someone screws up, is incompetent, or evil .... and does not require "two witnesses". Let's say a victim of CSA is also murdered. NOW you have NO witnesses. Congregationally, using the rules we live by, the criminal COMPLETELY escapes Justice.he feigns innocence, and THAT is the end of THAT. The systems the Nations have can unravel the mystery using detective work, forensic evidence, and if they have a suspect, can try him for his alleged crimes in open court, where he can have witnesses from the general public, witnesses for his defense, and character witnesses in his behalf. If he is poor with words, or too ignorant to make a determined and competent defense, he will be appointed a Lawyer who presumably IS competent to represent him. In OUR system you cannot even have present Jehovah's Witnesses from the Congregation present ... and that's the fact, Jack. You cannot have a transcript, you cannot record it on audio or video, you cannot have competent counsel represent you, and you have to file an appeal in 7 days or there is no appeal available. The ones judging you do not even have to TELL YOU THEIR NAMES. ... AT LEAST THEY ARE NOT WEARING HOODED ROBES, AND CARRYING A SCYTHE., which is the only "blessing" there. The Nations closely imitate the system God set up for Israel in ancient times ... and OUR system resembles loosely one set up by any number of tyrants. The Nations have the MORAL HIGH GROUND because their Justice system more closely imitates the one Jehovah God set up, and ours more closely resembles a Public Relations Corporation's damage control department. And that's that's the fact, Jack.
  9. -1 points
    @James Thomas Rook Jr. I totally agree with your first comment above and I believe the first paragraph of this second comment. As for the full proceedings, I didn't watch it all but have seen 'bits' via youtube or somewhere. I do know that the Org tried to withhold information from the Charity Commision here in the UK. I find it so funny when you call JW Org 'OUR' system or org. I cannot fully understand why anyone with your knowledge of the GB / W/t / JW Org would want to be any part of it, but maybe you are still getting info to pass on to us. I would think that half of the time the criminal or sinner is an Elder, and that he is liked and protected by other Elders, so justice is seldom done. And all is hidden behind closed doors. Whereas in that 'wicked old world' outside the Org, justice is more often done, and is seen to be done.
  10. -1 points
    Brother Jackson did an excellent job under the circumstances. Some of what he said indicated that the GB really would go back and rethink policies that were in place, and I believe it's no coincidence that we have seen more good progress since the ARC hearings. However, I never heard anyone (who watched Jackson's testimony in its entirety) point out any instances or evidences of humility. Sorry to say it, but his overall demeanor, to me, actually stood out as haughty and smug. I don't think that was just me. And it's not that I think this is how he is, or how the GB usually are, I have seen many instances of the GB showing humility and true concern. But I saw several evidences of the opposite, here. In fact, I think that McClellan, took notice of Brother Jackson's (who is an Australian citizen) attempts to reposition his testimony as an "opportunity" and something that worked out because he was only there (traveling in Australia) to take care of his elderly father. In fact, I understand that for no other person did Judge McClellan thank someone for their testimony and then add the words he added here at 1:07:41-45. The Judge, with a possible bit of derisive head-shaking of his own adds: ". . . you are now formally excused from your summons." It's even possible to interpret the half-second loss of Brother Jackson's "smirk" to that very remark at 1:07:47.
  11. -1 points

    Justified war

    I didn't want to hijack another thread so I'm starting a new one. I haven't seen this topic covered before so I'm presenting it for discussion. Can any war be justified? For example genocidal tyrants started wars for land, which is dumb. The united states started a war with native americans and Mexicans for land. However Hitler started a war and needed to be stopped, so war was used to stop him. Now we have muslim extremist who want to kill everyone who won't bow down to their allah. We got a smart bunch here so I am interested in your thoughts.
  12. -1 points
    Well, I can speak with some authority, because my wife, Susan, bought 20 Bantam Chickens as chicks (not much on this planet is cuter ...) and I have 5 roosters, temporarily living in a wire cage surrounding a kiddie pool on a table in my sun room, off my back deck. ... and I did view the ARC hearings in real time, in their entirety, and I would have to fully agree with you, Anna ... with the added observation that Bro. Jackson LIED about our stance on corporal punishment, to be politically correct, and said it would be "presumptuous" to believe that Jehovah's Witnesses were the "only" way to salvation, whereas the videos at this summer's Conventions definitely state otherwise., and he was weaseling and waffling in general, after swearing on a NWT to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, SO HELP HIM GOD. Howse THAT for a run-on sentence?
  13. -1 points
    I have not. They barely know I exist. Speaking of three letter acronyms, I wish the IRS did not know I exist. I needed various licenses for my weapons, and carry permits, and also off and on for 20 years I worked on nuclear waste projects, including the Yucca Mountain Project, in Nevada, so I needed those background checks for employment.
  14. -1 points
    I noticed that you skipped/avoided to use one Old, Good, Bible based word - "inspired". "Led" is also good Bible word in connection with JHVH and spirit. But what is wrong in using word "inspired" in connection with our decisions and works in religious/spiritual matters? Motivated as word, looks, seems to be more in connection with our own autonomy and free choice.
  15. -1 points
    Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you. out of all languages of the nations, would seem to signify people from all over the Earth. " By this he evidently means those who are truly led by the holy spirit, who are truly motivated by the holy spirit, and who therefore give proper guidance and to others. " Well actually I think HE means those that are TRULY ANOINTED OF HOLY SPIRIT, just as the Apostles were. And I think HE means that it would be 'visible' in some way, but maybe only to those truly seeking God in a 'pure way'. Quote "They can also be looked at in terms of our willingness to be involved with organizational goals or congregational goals when economics, delays, mistakes, and the despondency of others can take a toll on our own courage." This is very vague and general in it's meanings. " organizational goals or congregational goals " Which organisation and congregations ? " mistakes " By whom where and when ?
  16. -1 points
    I think, maybe once, when speaking to John about it.
  17. -1 points
    So has the Watchtower, up until now. https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200021176 ANOINTED CHRISTIANS (Also called 144,000; Anointed; Body of Christ; Bride of Christ; Chosen Ones; Elect; Holy Nation; Israel of God; Kingdom Class; Little Flock; New Creation; New Nation; Royal House; Royal Priesthood; Sanctuary Class; Sons of Levi; Spirit Begotten; Spiritual Israel; Spiritual Sons) Teachings always change; lies change into more lies, even the truth gradually changes into a lie. Today's "Body of Christ" taught by the Watchtower, includes every JW. I only know this from hearing it on a JW broadcast about building a convention center, I believe. The elder used the term "Body of Christ" in reference to all JWs. Rev 16:13,14
  18. -1 points
    This is the stereotypical Snowflake reaction of someone for whom CONTROL is more important that Truth and relating experiences, wherever the conversation might lead. It hurts Snowflakes feelings when no one will pay attention to the agenda. That's how computers work, but human minds, in love with freedom, wander afield. That's why we make them, and they do not make us.
  19. -1 points
    Wrong Billy! You changed thesis! I am sure that you also know, that it is not about issue of Transferring Perfection in question but about Transferring Authority! After, later it came to the idea that such Authority means Infallibility.
  20. -1 points
    @JW Insider July 2015 Watchtower simplified edition. Para 16. Sometime after the attack of Gog begins, all the remaining anointed ones on earth will be taken to heaven. Then Revelation 17:14 tells us about the reaction in heaven to Gog’s attack. The enemies of God’s people “will battle with the Lamb, but because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those with him who are called and chosen and faithful will do so.” Thus, Jesus, together with his 144,000 anointed kings in heaven, will rescue God’s people here on earth. 17 That rescue will result in the battle of Armageddon, which will bring glory to Jehovah’s holy name.................... So this W/t says all the 144,000 will be in heaven before Armageddon starts. But are you saying that the Judgement of the earthly class is prior to this happening ? I also remember a scripture at Matthew 24 v 22 In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short. How does this fit into the equation ?
  21. -1 points
    Stop being so American James, not everyone on this planet Earth wants 'to go to war'. It's about being as cautious as serpents I thought :) Not being a rogue elephant.
  22. -1 points
    ... that's why Americans, with their bodies and their blood, with fire and steel, had to save your English butts TWICE, from the Germans.
  23. -1 points
    I agree completely. But he asked. (And he asked nicely, and I think he was really interested.)
  24. -1 points
    Hmmm... could it be that the Scripture should read Google of My Google?
  25. -1 points
    I think I already had some fun with that idea in this post from 6 months ago when I discovered that Gog is spelled the same way in Hebrew as one would spell GOOG and that it appears as EL-GOOG in Hebrew which is read from Right to Left instead of Left to Right. אֶל־גֹּוג means when transliterated EL-GOG. But the O between the two G's is actually a 'vav' which when used as a vowel (as it is here) is not just used for O, but also for U, pronounced OO. Therefore: אֶל־גֹּוג can also be transliterated as EL-GOOG. Transliterated left to right as it appears on paper, this is אֶל־גֹּוג or GOOG-LE.
  26. -1 points
    I don't think it falls under the same issue as adding and taking away from the scroll of Revelation. Bias in translation is a well known feature of the "art" of translation. It's not a science as JTR says. Scholarly JWs have admitted that it's a common problem to include bias (as to meaning/interpretation) within the supposed confines of accurate translation. If a word can mean both during or at, and you believe the Parousia is 105+ years long, then you would say something happens during the parousia/presence. If you believe it is a future event that might only last a day or a few days, then you would translate "at" the parousia/presence. If you really believe that the meaning can only be conveyed by adding a bit of the previous verse into the next verse, then this could also be from "bias" as to interpretation.
  27. -1 points
    Of course, I accept scholarly works where they provide good, interesting and useful information. In fact, if you may recall, it was one of the reasons I defended Allen Smith. I said that very often he includes scholarly works that are very good, interesting and useful. In fact, I appreciated the scholarly works you added here in this very thread. No one gave you any garbage about posting them. In my case, I only pointed out that you mixed up a couple of different references interspersed with a sentence or two of your own, but you didn't tell anyone here where you were copying and pasting from. There have been times when you have done this while giving the impression that even scholars agree with the WTS. There have been times when you have done this while giving the impression that scholars are not in agreement. And there have been at least two times when Allen Smith provided some very old scholarship in order to show where the chronology arguments of the Watchtower might be "improved" with respect to Nebuchadnezzar, his father, and a couple references in "apocrypha"/"pseudepigrapha". (Even on those ones, Allen, only included page images and copied text, no source reference, so I had to look up and point out where the source was, which I found on Google Books.) So I hope you see the difference. You have long known that I accept some scholarly works with interpretation. The Watchtower publications also accept scholarly works with interpretation. And they sometimes quote them just to show the differences when they are not reflective of WT interpretation. If you are referring to me again, you should know that I have never scoffed at the word academia. There is good, mediocre, and bad in most fields of study.
  28. -1 points
    Yes Billy I'm married to one, but I don't trust her and she knows that. The children know that I don't trust them either. i once wrote on my FB page :- Which is worse : Love based on lies, or, Hate based on truth. You see Billy i am not you. I do not think like you. I do not act like you. I do not have the feelings / emotions like you. When you and others, begin to see other people, as OTHER people, not as people like you, then you and others may just start to begin to understand that not all of us live by the same rules. You are trying to tell me I trust my wife because I'm married to her. Wrong. The trust died many years ago. I have no love for anyone, no trust in anyone. It does not mean that I hate people, it simply means I have no feelings for them. I demand nothing, I expect nothing, therefore i no longer get disappointed by anyone.
  29. -1 points
    Brazen sounds a bit archaic, and can sometimes offer ambiguity if persons are familiar with another meaning of brazen, such as the ONLY definition (made of brass) that it had in the previous NWT. In the Appendix of the NWT Reference Bible (1984): *** Rbi8 p. 1575 4D “Tartarus” *** In Job 41:31, 32 (41:23, 24, LXX) we read concerning Leviathan: “He makes the deep boil like a brazen caldron; . . . " But it's not a terrible translation, as it really was used in Greek with reference to "brazen hussies." (shameless hussies, and wanton hussies - and brazen hustlers, too, for that matter.) Literally, it meant people who were not so moral as those good folks up in the town of Selge, Pisidia, Asia Minor. It's much better than the old translation in the NWT (loose conduct) which was actually a mistranslation because it implied lesser moral infractions of a more general variety. Note Thayer's: ἀσέλγεια, -ας, ἡ, the conduct and character of one who is ἀσελγής (a word which some suppose to be compounded of the α privative and Σέλγη, the name of a city in Pisidia whose citizens excelled in strictness of morals [so Etym. Magn. 152, 38; per contra cf. Suidas 603 d.]: others of α intensive and σαλαγεῖν, to disturb, raise a din; others, and now the majority, of α privative and σέλγω equivalent to θέλγω, not affecting pleasantly, exciting disgust), unbridled lust, excess, licentiousness, lasciviousness, wantonness, outrageousness, shamelessness, insolence:Mark 7:22 (where it is uncertain what particular vice is spoken of); of gluttony and venery, Jude 1:4; plural, 1 Peter 4:3; 2 Peter 2:2 (for Rec. ἀπωλείαις), 2 Peter 2:18; of carnality, lasciviousness: 2 Corinthians 12:21; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 4:19; 2 Peter 2:7; plural "wanton (acts or) manners, as filthy words, indecent bodily movements, unchaste handling of males and females, etc." (Fritzsche), Romans 13:13. (In Biblical Greek besides only in Wis. 14:26 and 3 Macc. 2:26. Among Greek writings used by Plato, Isocrates and following; at length by Plutarch [Lucull. 38] and Lucian [dial. meretr. 6] of the wantonness of women [Lob. ad Phryn., p. 184 n.].) Cf. Tittmann i., p. 151f; [especially Trench, § xvi.]. I took 4 years of Hebrew in College (7 semesters) and learned a bit of Greek at Bethel. Still an amateur, of course, but learned enough to know that the NWT is actually an excellent translation with only a few verses where bias has created areas for further study. Most of its "mis-translations," in my opinion, do not necessarily add false informaiton, just interpreted information. Most of the time I'd say the interpreted information is quite likely true, just unnecessary for a pure translation. Personally, I find both the 1984 and 2013 NWT to be very good, even the simpler revised version. But I couldn't do without an Interlinear. There was more consistency in the old NWT, and where words were added there were usually brackets around them. You have to really know a more literal translation well, for the Revised NWT to also be as useful. And, for the present, most JWs have a good knowledge of the NWT (more literal) and the NWT Revised, which puts them in pretty good shape. A simpler, easier to read version, is better for grasping the context, and a literal translation is better for study. We have them both, plus an excellent Interlinear (KIT). I might have a few minor complaints with the NWT, but I have hundreds more with the KJV, RSV, and ASV. There are a few things I like better about the Jerusalem Bible and the RSV, but it doesn't matter so much any more. We all have the ability to check all kinds of good Bible language resources online, and dozens of parallel Bibles online for comparison.
  30. -1 points
  31. -1 points
    No, I said that I don't ... when in Field Service .... if memory serves. Therein lies the problem.
  32. -1 points
    If and when we see them abuse their authority, we can point it out as Paul often did, I like this. There were times when an Elder would give me a headache / chew my ear off I think is an expression, and i would simply say to him, 'Show me three scriptures to back up what you are saying, or go away'. They would walk away. One of the points regularly was not wearing a jacket and tie in hot weather. In my opinion neither God nor Christ demanded it.
  33. -1 points
    Ohh, sorry JW Insider, but they had not needed to made specific naming, numbering was/were some specific work, action and move that organization and leading people inside it had made, was been spirit-directed. .... Because..... the whole organization with all guardians of doctrine who has made approval, gave green light for, of every Bible edition ...... is spirit-directed......supposedly.
  34. -1 points
    I no longer read Billy the Kid's comments as I know he is a sick man and probably cannot help himself. God's word through Christ says we should forgive 77 times (continuously). I've forgiven BTK for the way he has insulted me and therefore do not need to read any further comments of his. I do honestly believe that he is unwell and is best ignored as we cannot help him.
  35. -1 points
    No objection there. Does this necessarily include the "highly regarded" men in Jerusalem namely Peter, James and John, among others? Didn't those same brothers say: "Since we have heard that some went out from among us and caused you trouble with what they have said, trying to subvert you, although we did not give them any instructions, we have come to a unanimous decision to choose men to send to you together with our beloved Barʹna·bas and Paul, men who have given up their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ". That doesn't sound like those brothers were the trouble makers, on the contrary. So weren't those men who went out from among them "from Ju·deʹa and began to teach the brothers: “Unless you get circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” (Acts 15:1) the ones that caused the problem, and wasn't that the issue Paul and Barnabas went up to the elders in Jerusalem about? (vs.2). "On arriving in Jerusalem, they were kindly received by the congregation and the apostles and the elders, and they related the many things God had done by means of them.But some of those of the sect of the Pharisees who had become believers stood up from their seats and said: “It is necessary to circumcise them and command them to observe the Law of Moses" ( Acts 15:4,5). Again, to me it seems clear that those who had the problem, and caused problems, were "those who had been from the sect of the pharisees, and were the same same ones (not literally) that "went from among the elders in Jerusalem" and "came down from Judea". Possibly, since those who had been from the sect of the Pharisees were also present at the meeting in Jerusalem, but we also know that they did not receive any instructions from James, especially not with regard to "what they said" (unless you get circumcised you cannot get saved).
  36. -1 points
    Great! Just great! And how am I supposed to knew whether the next comment from you is actually from you or from one of the 18 chickens? Because I have a nose, and they have peckers?
  37. -1 points
    The way things are progressing, I wonder when they select a new member of the Governing Body, the "Helpers" will have white smoke come out of that Watchtower at the main entrance of Warwick Bethel ?.....
  38. -1 points
    We seem to have world class problems understanding the simplest common sense things .... like what a "Generation" is. Everyone else on the planet uses ONE definition, and always has ... except us. I cannot even imagine the Apostles understanding what Jesus said the way we are told to. That's why I want the GB "OFFICIAL" explanation, which may or may not have anything at all with standard definitions, common sense, or reality. They really ought to tell us what definitions we are actually using to make determinations of what is, and what is not "brazen conduct", so that the excesses that all humans are subject to do not cause irreparable harm when being applied ... because we are being governed BY AND WITH those definitions. This is NOT a new issue ... and REMAINS unresolved, since 2010, almost a decade ago. Historically, the record of "straight shooting", and accountability has been terrible.
  39. -1 points
    Srecko Sostar

    Isn't this an idol?

    Question: Is @Foreigner real person or someones clone just for purpose of down voting? :)))
  40. -1 points
    I'd say you're right. Based on current rates, the peak publishers number should reach 9 million in 2021 and the average publishers should reach 9 million in 2022.
  41. -1 points
    the clear answer as to why God allows suffering, the knowledge of what happens to people when they die, and even the reason that they die? He has forgotten all about it. Are I see TTH is getting the Word of God, mixed up with JW org once again. TTH seems to think that JW's have the monopoly on God, Jesus Christ, and God's written word. My road does not lead to heaven Tom. If God shows me mercy and resurrects me then I will be here on planet Earth. "One wonders what would satisfy him" Why does one wonder ? I've written it on here often enough. A plain observation of the Anointed (spiritual 'Jew') that we should be clinging to. An organisation led by those Anointed that show proof of their being inspired of God. Such an organisation would of course be clean on the inside as well as the outside. Remembering the words of Jesus to the Pharisees. Wash the inside of the dish or bowl ................ And it would know how to use God's written word properly. Quote " It frequently happens when ones leave the JW faith. They lose every ounce of spiritual discernment that they once had, to become completely immersed with matters of the here and now. " It frequently happens with JW's that they are so blindly serving their masters the GB and it's orgs (plural), that they cannot see that the ones they serve have no spiritual discernment. And those said JW's cannot bare to look at the here and now as it is too painful for them to see how much of a mess their GB and orgs are in. Works both ways Tom
  42. -1 points
    Couldn't you read the bible and figure that out for yourself ? There are enough scriptures to tell you. 'A resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous' Buy Billy thinks some of us here won't get any resurrection, BTK thinks we are already condemned. I'd sooner believe God's words. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Was it unique to JW's and /or Bible Students that Christmas was an insult to God ? But they kept on celebrating it for 30 years. Was it unique to the Bible Students / JW's that smoking was against God's 'rules' or wishes ? But they kept on doing it for over 70 years. Was it unique to JW's that the Superiority Authorities were God and Jesus Christ ? Oh yes but that was a lie wasn't it.
  43. -1 points
    In my opinion war is not 'the right thing to do'. All this about men being tough doesn't wash with me. And maybe most of those men were brainwashed into believing they would die and go to heaven. The war was about men and women being conscripted to kill other men and women. Remember even some Germans didn't go to war. Probably not only JW's at that. Sorry James but you seem to have this thing about guns and men being tough. There is enough sh-t in life for some of us that we don't need war or guns to make it worse.
  44. -1 points
    A cult would say things like: "Avoid independent thinking...questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization. ( ie: the watchtower organisation )" (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 22) "Fight against independent thinking." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 27 ) "All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovah's channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave.( ie: the watchtower )" (The Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1994, p. 8.) “Persons who deliberately spread (stubbornly hold to and speak about) teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught by Jehovah's Witnesses are apostates.” Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock p.94 “Do not look for excuses to associate with a disfellowshipped family member, for example, through e-mail.” Watchtower Study Edition 2013 Jan 15 p.16 "So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? . . . This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses . . . Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1972, p. 197). They will make FALSE prophecies: "In subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God has already begun...And that the "battle of the great day of God almighty [revelation 16:14], which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of the earth's present rulership, is already commenced." SOURCE: "The Time is at Hand; 1889. ( note: The 1915 edition of this book changed "A.D. 1914" to "A.D. 1915." ) "...the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty' (Revelation 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced," SOURCE: The Time Is at Hand, 1908 edition, p. 101. "Now, in view of recent labor troubles and threatened anarchy, our readers are writing to know if there may not be a mistake in the 1914 date. They do not see how present conditions can hold out so long under the strain. We see no reason for changing the figures - nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God's dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble." Zion's Watch Tower 1894 Jul 15 p.226
  45. -1 points
    Things like this are a good test of peoples' integrity. ESPECIALLY when the test has a simple YES or NO answer, and they are aware that they will answer to Almighty God, for lying. Honest questions deserve honest answers, and unless life or liberty are at stake, are appropriate. Especially in a discussion room where credibility is so very important ... as we are casually discussing life and death matters. so here goes..... 1.) BillyTheKid46, ... are you now or have you ever been one of Jehovah's Witnesses ? ... and, 2.) are you now, or have ever been a Watchtower Lawyer, or anything similar? 3.) Space Merchant: Are you now or have you ever been one of Jehovah's Witnesses? Working on the exchange of information theory of Steven Covey, in "The Seven Habits of Successful People", about emotional "bank accounts" ... that it is immoral to try and make a withdrawal without having enough "deposits" to cover it ... please consider all the personal information about myself I have freely given here, to try and contribute to general understanding ... including my real name, and real picture, ad nauseaum, as enough "deposit" to cover the request for a withdrawal from YOUR emotional bank accounts, for information not already volunteered. Of course this only works between men of integrity, and will be ridiculed and/or ignored by weasels.
  46. -1 points
    Strange. This sounds like another echo of Hermanesque projection. I hope that's an indication that you understand this same point after several years of repetition. George Storrs says he was influenced by Henry Grew's pamphlet against the doctrines of immortality of the soul and against hellfire. He resigned from his church in 1840 and as of 1843, per Wikipedia (and his own statements, of course): Storrs became one of the leaders of the Second Advent movement and affiliated with William Miller and Joshua V. Himes. He began publication of his magazine Bible Examiner in 1843 and continued it until 1879 with a few breaks. After a considerable amount of study, Storrs preached to some Adventists on the condition and prospects for the dead. His book Six Sermons explained his conditionalist beliefs. But why are you so concerned about whether Russell admitted to relying on Second Adventists for the chronology? Why not just take Russell's word for it? Russell said: It was about January 1876 that my attention was specially drawn to the subject of prophetic time, as it relates to these doctrines and hopes. It came about in this way: I received a paper called The Herald of The Morning, sent by its editor, Mr. N. H. Barbour. When I opened it I at once identified it with Adventism from the picture . . . . I rejoiced to find others coming to the same advanced position, but was astonished to find a further statement very cautiously made, that the editor believed the prophecies to indicate that the Lord was already present in the world (unseen and invisible) and that the harvest work of gathering the wheat was already due. Here was a new thought: Could it be that the time prophecies which I had so long despised, because of their misuse by Adventists, were really meant for us—to indicate when the Lord would be invisibly present to set up his Kingdom—a thing which we clearly saw could be known in no other way? . . . I recalled certain arguments used by the Adventists to prove that 1873 would witness the burning of the world, etc.—the chronology of the world showing that the six thousand years from Adam ended with the beginning of 1873, and other arguments drawn from the Scriptures and supposed to coincide. Could it be that these, which we had passed by as unworthy of attention, really contained an important truth which they had misapplied? Anxious to learn, from any quarter, whatever God had to teach, I at once wrote to Mr. Barbour, informing him of our harmony on other points and desiring to know particularly why, and upon what Scriptural evidences, he held that Christ's presence and the harvesting of the Gospel age dated from the Autumn of 1874. The answer showed that my surmise had been correct, viz.: that the time arguments, chronology, etc., were the same as used by Second Adventists in 1873, and explained how Mr. Barbour and Mr. J. A. Paton of Michigan, a co-worker with him, had been regular Second Adventists up to that time, and that when the date 1874 had passed without the world being burned, and without their seeing Christ in the flesh, they were for a time dumb-founded. . . . Not long after their 1874 disappointment, a reader of the Herald, who had a copy of the Diaglott, noticed something in it which he thought peculiar,—that in Matt. 24:27,37,39, the word which in our common version is rendered coming, is translated presence. This was the clue, and following it, they had been led through prophetic time toward proper views regarding the object and manner of the Lord's return. We of Allegheny on the contrary were led first to proper views of the object and manner of our Lord's return and then to the examination of the time for these things, indicated in God's word. Thus God leads his children often from different starting points of truth; but where the heart is earnest and trustful, the result must be to draw all such together. But there were no books or other publications setting forth the time-prophecies as then understood, so I paid Mr. Barbour's expenses to come to see me at Philadelphia (where I had business engagements during the summer of 1876), to show me fully and Scripturally, if he could, that the prophecies indicated 1874 as the date at which the Lord's presence and the harvest began. He came, and the evidences satisfied me. I hadn't mentioned this before, but Russell admits that the scriptural support that Russell utilizes for the "presence/parousia" doctrine, was contributed by B.W.Keith, a Second Adventist supporter (contributor to Barbour's magazine, and speaker already associated with both Paton and Barbour). Keith, shortly after 1874, found the scriptural support through a copy of the Diaglott (produced by a Second Adventist associate, Benjamin Wilson). Wilson, a former Campbellite, founded what was (and is) known as the "Christadelphians" and "Church of God of the Abrahamic Faith." It is Wilson's close association with anti-Trinitarian Adventist, Joseph Marsh, that is emphasized as the reason for the actual founding of the latter church today. See the articles on both Wilson and Marsh to see the connection: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Wilson_(biblical_scholar) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Marsh_(Adventist ) (In case TTH wants to make that all that money you spoke about, note that most of these men, including Barbour, Marsh, Wilson, Campbell and Keith all spent a lot of time around Rochester.) Back when Russell was involved with publishing "Object and Manner of Our Lord's Return" while still associated with Barbour, Russell writes: But it is not my object in this pamphlet to call your attention more fully to the TIME of the second advent than I have above, in answering some of the chief objections to the investigation of it. (Those interested in knowing the evidences as to the time, I would refer to Dr. N. H. Barbour, editor of the "Herald of the Morning." Rochester, N. Y.) I simply add that I am deeply impressed and think not without good scriptural evidence . . .
  47. -1 points
    LOL. I saw that coming as soon as I asked the question: In what sense do you believe that there are two periods of 1,260 that make up the 2,520? Nearly the same thing happened when I asked Allen that question. You haven't shown where. A proposition given without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. I know you made that claim. But without evidence. The problem with your theory is that when Russell and Barbour continued the Herald, it was still very much an Adventist publication. That didn't change. The book "Three Worlds" that they published in 1877 was steeped in Millerite Adventism, so much so that you see the way they concluded it with a defense of Miller in the section on "William Miller's Dream" above. It even copied the "seventh month" movement. But it was a date-adjusted Adventism with very similar interpretations of the same time periods. With Barbour's MINOR adjustments to make Miller's end dates move 30 to 45 years further into the future, Russell kept these very similar time period interpretations throughout the entire series of Studies in the Scriptures, and these doctrines were generally kept until 1927, with a few of them remaining until 1943. Even before Russell influenced him, Barbour, still a full-fledged Second Adventist, had already moved Miller's start date for the 2,520 years from 677 BC to 606 BC (based on Bowen/Elliott/etc). This made the period nearly the same as John Aquila Brown's use of the 2,520 years. Your theory that Barbour was done with Second Adventism apparently has no evidence, unless you know of some that you are not sharing. But there is plenty of evidence that indicates your theory is not true. I actually agree with you that Russell's ongoing work in the Watch Tower was based on "new light" that progressed further and further toward clearer truth, and further away from Barbour's influence and the influence that other Second Adventists had on Russell. But this couldn't happen completely until 1927 (to about 1933) when the WTS was finally finished selling off the remaining stocks of Studies in the Scriptures. It seems likely that you are able to keep your claim alive only by changing the definition of Adventism to a special definition that works for you. If this is the case, then you are only arguing semantics. It's probably another one of those cases where anyone else is a liar "with Satan in their head" if they use a word the way a dictionary or Encyclopedia Britannica, for example, uses it, instead of a way that you need them to use it to fit your own ideology. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Adventism I don't point to that article to say they are right about "Jehovah's Witnesses" but to give you an idea of the "definition" of "Adventism" and "Second Adventism."
  48. -1 points
    Well, regarding the "hen" expression, be sure, it's not spanish. And I have no idea about the use billythekid is trying
  49. -1 points
    @BillyTheKid46 quotes: "The Watchtower doesn’t directly claim clergy privilege, it’s automatically given by each State that has it in their legal binding. (I.e. laws)" "Then, perhaps the above will be clearer as to who is advocating the “clergy” identity. It’s not the Watchtower, but the legal system by definition." Indeed, the Watchtower has a “clergy”; albeit a counterfeit one, and they know it. “Representative”: Adjective: Typical; having the same properties or interest as a larger group. Representing, showing a likeness Noun: One who may speak for another in a particular capacity, especially in negotiation. “Representing the royal priesthood are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the earth. These men deserve our respect and wholehearted support, whether they are of the anointed or not. Why? Because, through his holy spirit, Jehovah has appointed the older men to their positions. In what way are elders appointed by holy spirit? 19 These older men meet the requirements that are set out in God’s Word, which is a product of God’s spirit. (1 Timothy 3:1-7; Titus 1:5-9) Hence, their appointment can be said to be by holy spirit. (Acts 20:28) W 02/8/1 p. 13,14 They flex this assumed role according to their advantage. If it means disfellowshipping individuals, (including members of the “royal priesthood”) judging them as unsuitable to remain in their idolatrous “Zion”, the elder body must be recognized for their falsely given “priestly” authority. After all, it can be said they were appointed by Holy Spirit, they say. In the court system, they will either defend their clergy-penitent privilege to their advantage; or deny it exists, because they have created their loophole, being “representatives” of the authentic priestly “clergy”. In all cases, it is total hypocrisy. 2 Chron 13:9 - “You forced out the Lord’s priests who were Aaron’s descendants, and you forced out the Levites so that you could appoint your own priests, as the people in foreign countries do. Anyone who has a young bull and seven rams can be ordained as a priest of nonexistent gods. W 02/8/1 p. 13,14 “Rather than challenge their authority, we truly appreciate our hardworking elders! Their record of faithful service, often over many decades, inspires our trust.” “They (Korah and his men) came together to confront Moses and Aaron and said to them, “You’ve gone far enough! Everyone in the whole community is holy, and the Lord is among them. Why do you set yourselves above the Lord’s assembly?” Moses also said to Korah, “Listen, you Levites! 9 Isn’t it enough for you that the God of Israel has separated you from the rest of the community of Israel? The Lord has brought you near himself to do the work for his tent and stand in front of the community to serve them. 10 He has brought you and all the other Levites near himself, but now you demand to be priests. 11 So you and all your followers have joined forces against the Lord! Who is Aaron that you should complain about him?” Numbers, chapter 16 “Don’t let anyone deceive you about this in any way. That day cannot come unless a revolt takes place first, and the man of sin, the man of destruction, is revealed. He opposes every so-called god or anything that is worshiped and places himself above them, sitting in God’s temple (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6:16; Rev 11:1-3) and claiming to be God.” 2 Thess 2:3,4 “Disgusting Thing Standing in the Holy Place” 4womaninthewilderness, Pearl Doxsey
  50. -1 points
    Jack Ryan

    Watchtower Society attacks jw.help

    Watchtower Society attacks jw.help The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania has blocked our YouTube channel and our Instagram account for alleged trademark infringement. It is to be feared that further Internet appearances will be affected. We strongly disagree with this alleged trademark infringement. The brand jw.help is protected in Germany. Therefore, we will take legal action to defend jw.help. On the one hand, we are pleased that our work is even registered as far as the USA, as we mostly turn to a German audience. On the other hand, this approach also shows how Jehovah's Witnesses are trying by all means to eliminate critics and enlighteners. Please support us in our efforts to continue to educate Jehovah's Witnesses and other sects and to advise and assist their victims. Especially in the current situation, we depend on their donations. We would like to thank all those who already support us! http://jw.help/2019/08/29/watchtower-society-attackiert-jw-help/

  • Who's Online (See full list)

  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
    • Most Online

    Newest Member
  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
    • Total Posts
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.