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  1. 2 points
    Officially, the Watchtower's answer to @Bubba Johnson Jr is NO! Newly anointed persons would NOT necessarily be included in "this generation." If there was a person who was anointed prior to 1914, and who is still alive today, then it's possible that newly anointed persons today are still therefore overlapping with that first group of anointed. (Technically there are not overlapping "generations" in the same sense as "this generation that will not pass away," there are only overlapping "groups" within that generation. In the natural sense of the word "generation" there are, of course, as many as 6 or 7 overlapping generations already since the generations alive in 1914, but those are NOT the type of generation the Watchtower is attempting to define here.) It seems rather unlikely that there are still anointed persons alive now who were around to "discern" the events of 1914, and who were anointed at the time. Even if one could be said to be anointed at say, 8 years old, that would mean the person was born in 1906, and is already 113 years old. The most likely "known" example of a "group one" person was F W Franz who died a few days shy of 1993. Brother Splane made clear (in his chart) that Franz was only an example of "group one," and that there may be more examples. If we assume a person could be anointed only as young as 18 instead of 8, then the oldest possible person in "group one" would be 123 years old, and this seems like too much of a stretch. The definition as explained by Brother Splane, makes clear therefore that newly anointed persons are NOT necessarily a part of "this generation" because their anointed life does not necessarily overlap with persons from group one. (Assuming all the "candidates" in group one have already died, and that these conjectured 113 to 123 year old candidates are not around today.)
  2. 1 point
    Part of a series on: The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania is a non-stock, not-for-profit organization[1] headquartered in the New York City, New York borough of Brooklyn. It is the main legal entity used worldwide by Jehovah's Witnesses to direct, administer and develop doctrines for the religion and is often referred to by members of the religion simply as "the Society". It is the parent organization of a number of Watch Tower subsidiaries, including the Watchtower Society of New York and International Bible Students Association.[2] The number of voting shareholders of the corporation is limited to between 300 and 500 "mature, active and faithful" male Jehovah's Witnesses.[3] About 5800 Jehovah's Witnesses provide voluntary unpaid labor, as members of a religious order, in three large Watch Tower Society facilities in New York;[4] nearly 15,000 other members of the order work at the Watch Tower Society's other facilities worldwide.[4][5][6]The organization was formed in 1881 as Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society for the purpose of distributing religious tracts.[1] The society was incorporated in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania on December 15, 1884. In 1896, the society was renamed Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society.[7] Following a leadership dispute in the Bible Student movement, the Watch Tower Society remained associated with the branch of the movement that became known as Jehovah's Witnesses. In 1955, the corporation was renamed Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania.[8] In 1976, all activities of the Watch Tower Society were brought under the supervision of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses.[9] History On February 16, 1881, Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society was formed in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, United States, for the purpose of organizing the printing and distribution of religious tracts. William Henry Conley, a Pittsburgh industrialist and philanthropist, served as president, with Charles Taze Russell serving as secretary-treasurer.[10] The society's primary journal was Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christs Presence, first published in 1879 by Russell,[11] founder of the Bible Student movement.[12] Other early writers for the Watch Tower Society included J. H. Paton and W. I. Mann.[10][13] Formation of the society was announced in the April 1881 issue of Zion's Watch Tower.[14] That year, the society received donations of $35,391.18.[15]Although ZION'S WATCH TOWER TRACT SOCIETY was formed in February 1881 to act as a "distributor" of "tracts" and other literature which advocated the religious views of the Conleys and the Russells, ZWTTS was NOT a "religious" organization, but rather was a "business association", which had "no creed or confession".While Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society was founded with $7000.00 in its bank account, another $35,000.00 was needed to fund Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society exceptionally large international distribution of literature during 1881 and early 1882 -- over 1,400,000 booklets, tracts, and magazines. Most of that $35,000.00 ($1,060,000.00 current value) is believed to have been donated by Henry Conley, who had such disposable income, while the Russells did not. Incorporation On December 15, 1884, the society was incorporated as Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society in Pennsylvania as a non-profit, non-stock corporation with Russell as president. The corporation was located in Allegheny, Pennsylvania. In its charter, written by Russell, the society's purpose was stated as "the mental, moral and religious improvement of men and women, by teaching the Bible by means of the publication and distribution of Bibles, books, papers, pamphlets and other Bible literature, and by providing oral lectures free for the people".[16] The charter provided for a board of seven directors, three of who served as officers—a president, vice-president (initially William I. Mann) and secretary-treasurer (initially Maria Russell). The charter stipulated that the officers be chosen from the directors and be elected annually by ballot. Board members would hold office for life unless removed by a two-thirds vote by shareholders. Vacancies on the board resulting from death, resignation or removal would be filled by a majority vote of the remaining board members within 20 days; if such vacancies were not filled within 30 days an appointment could be made by the president, with the appointments lasting only until the next annual corporation meeting, when vacancies would be filled by election.[17]Anyone subscribing to $10 or more of the society's Old Testament Tracts or donating $10 or more to the society was deemed a voting member and entitled to one vote per $10 donated.[17] Russell indicated that despite having a board and shareholders, the society would be directed by only two people—him and hiswife Maria.[18] Russell said that as at December 1893 he and his wife owned 3705, or 58 percent, of the 6383 voting shares, "and thus control the Society; and this was fully understood by the directors from the first. Their usefulness, it was understood, would come to the front in the event of our death... For this reason, also, formal elections were not held; because it would be a mere farce, a deception, to call together voting shareholders from all over the world, at great expense, to find upon arrival that their coming was useless, Sister Russell and myself having more than a majority over all that could gather. However, no one was hindered from attending such elections." The influx of donations gradually diluted the proportion of the Russells' shares and in 1908 their voting shares constituted less than half the total.[19][20] Russell emphasized the limitations of the corporation, explaining: "Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society is not a 'religious society' in the ordinary meaning of this term"[21] He also stated, "This is a business association merely... It has no creed or confession. It is merely a business convenience in disseminating the truth."[17] Incorporation of the society meant that it would outlive Russell, so individuals who wished to bequeath their money or property to him would not have to alter their will if he died before they did.[22] On September 19, 1896, the name of the corporation was changed to Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society.[23]From 1908 Russell required the directors to write out resignations when they were appointed so Russell could dismiss them by simply filling in the date.[19] In 1909, Russell instructed legal counsel Joseph Franklin Rutherford to determine whether the society's headquarters could be moved to Brooklyn, New York.[24] Rutherford reported that because it had been established under Pennsylvania law, the corporation could not be registered in New York state, but suggested that a new corporation be registered there to do the society's work. Rutherford subsequently organized the formation of the People's Pulpit Association, which was incorporated on February 23, 1909, and wrote the charter which gave the president—to be elected for life at the first meeting—"absolute power and control" of its activities in New York.[25][24] The society sold its buildings in Pittsburgh[26] and moved staff to its new base in Brooklyn. Although all New York property was bought in the name of the New York corporation and all legal affairs of the society done in its name, Russell insisted on the continued use of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society name on all correspondence and publications.[24]The move from Pennsylvania to New York occurred during court proceedings over the breakdown of Russells' marriage. His wife Maria had been granted a "limited divorce" on March 4, 1908, but in 1909 returned to court in Pittsburgh to request an increase in alimony,[27] which her former husband refused.[28] Authors Barbara Grizzuti Harrison and Edmond C. Gruss have claimed Russell's move to Brooklyn was motivated by his desire to transfer from the jurisdiction of the Pennsylvania courts. They claim he transferred all his assets to the Watch Tower Society so he could declare himself bankrupt and avoid being jailed for failure to pay alimony.[27][29][30] wt charter Pennsylvania corp.pdf In 1914, the International Bible Students Association was incorporated in Britain to administer affairs in that country. Like the People's Pulpit Association, it was subsidiary to the Pennsylvania parent organization and all work done through both subsidiaries was described as the work of the Watch Tower Society. The Watchtower noted: "The editor of The Watchtower is the President of all three of these Societies. All financial responsibility connected with the work proceeds from [the Pennsylvania corporation]. From it the other Societies and all the branches of the work receive their financial support... we use sometimes the one name and sometimes the other in various parts of our work—yet they all in the end mean the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, to which all donations should be made."[2] Leadership dispute Main article: Watch Tower Society presidency dispute (1917)Russell died on October 31, 1916, in Pampa, Texas during a cross-country preaching trip. On January 6, 1917, board member and society legal counsel Joseph Franklin Rutherford, aged 47, was elected president of the Watch Tower Society, unopposed, at the Pittsburgh convention. Under his presidency, the role of the society underwent a major change.[31] By-laws passed by both the Pittsburgh convention and the board of directors stated that the president would be the executive officer and general manager of the society, giving him full charge of its affairs worldwide.[32]By June 1917, four of the seven Watch Tower Society directors, Robert H. Hirsh, Alfred I. Ritchie, Isaac F. Hoskins and James D. Wright, had decided they had erred in endorsing Rutherford's expanded powers of management,[33] claiming Rutherford had become autocratic.[33] Hirsch attempted to rescind the new by-laws and reclaim the powers of management from the president,[34] but Rutherford later claimed he had by then detected a conspiracy among the directors to seize control of the society.[35] In July, Rutherford gained a legal opinion from a Philadelphia corporation lawyer that none of his opposers were legally directors of the society.On July 12, 1917, Rutherford filled what he claimed were four vacancies on the board, appointing A. H. Macmillan and Pennsylvania Bible Students W. E. Spill, J. A. Bohnet and George H. Fisher as directors.[36] Between August and November the society and the four ousted directors published a series of pamphlets, with each side accusing the other of ambitious and reckless behavior. The former directors also claimed Rutherford had required all headquarters workers to sign a petition supporting him and threatened dismissal for any who refused to sign.[37] The former directors left the Brooklyn headquarters on August 8, 1917.[38] On January 5, 1918, Rutherford was returned to office.In May 1918, Rutherford and seven other Watch Tower directors and officers were arrested on charges of sedition under the Espionage Act. On June 21, 1918, they were sentenced to 20 years' imprisonment. Rutherford feared his opponents would gain control of the Society in his absence, but on January 2, 1919, he learned he had been re-elected president at the Pittsburgh convention the day before.[39] However, by mid-1919 about one in seven Bible Students had chosen to leave rather than accept Rutherford's leadership,[40] forming groups such as The Standfast Movement, Paul Johnson Movement, Dawn Bible Students Association, Pastoral Bible Institute of Brooklyn, Elijah Voice Movement and Eagle Society.[41]Although formed as a "business convenience" with the purpose of publishing and distributing Bible-based literature and managing the funds necessary for that task, the corporation from the 1920s began its transformation into the "religious society" Russell had insisted it was not, introducing centralized control and regulation of Bible Student congregations worldwide.[42] In 1938, Rutherford introduced the term "theocracy" to describe the hierarchical leadership of Jehovah's Witnesses, with Consolation explaining: "The Theocracy is at present administered by the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, of which Judge Rutherford is the president and general manager."[43] The society appointed "zone servants" to supervise congregations and in a Watchtower article Rutherford declared the need for congregations to "get in line" with the changed structure.[44][45] Amendments to charter Following Rutherford's death in 1942, Nathan H. Knorr became president of the Watch Tower Society, and subsequently introduced further changes to the role of the society. At a series of talks given in Pittsburgh on September 30, 1944, coinciding with the society's annual meeting, it was announced that changes would be made to the 1884 charter to bring it into "closer harmony with theocratic principles". The amendments, most of which were passed unanimously,[46] significantly altered the terms of membership and stated for the first time that the society's purposes included preaching about God's kingdom, acting as a servant and governing agency of Jehovah's Witnesses, and sending missionaries and teachers for the public worship of God and Jesus Christ. The new charter, which took effect from January 1, 1945 included the following changes:An altered and expanded explanation of article II, detailing the purpose of the society. This included the preaching of the gospel of God's kingdom to all nations; to print and distribute Bibles and disseminate Bible truths with literature explaining Bible truths and prophecy concerning the establishment of God's kingdom; to authorise and appoint agents, servants, employees, teachers evangelists, missionaries, ministers and others "to go all the world publicly and from house to house to preach Bible truths to persons willing to listen by leaving with such persons said literature and by conducting Bible studies thereon"; to improve people mentally and morally by instruction "on the Bible and incidental scientific, historical and literary subjects"; to establish and maintain Bible schools and classes; to "teach, train, prepare and equip men and women as ministers, missionaries, evangelists, preachers, teachers and instructors in the Bible and Bible literature, and for public Christian worship of Almighty God and Jesus Christ" and "to arrange for and hold local and worldwide assemblies for such worship".An amendment to article V, detailing the qualifications for membership of the society. Each donation of $10 to the society funds had formerly entitled the contributor to one voting share; the amendment limited membership to "only men who are mature, active and faithful witnesses of Jehovah devoting full time to performance of one or more of its chartered purposes... or such men who are devoting part time as active presiding ministers or servants of congregations of Jehovah's witnesses". The amended article stipulated that "a man who is found to be in harmony with the purposes of the Society and who possesses the above qualifications may be elected as a member upon being nominated by a member, director or officer, or upon written application to the president or secretary. Such members shall be elected upon a finding by the Board of Directors that he possesses the necessary qualifications and by receiving a majority vote of the members." The amendment limited membership at any one time to between 300 and 500, including approximately seven residents of each of the 48 states of the US. It also introduced a clause providing for the suspension or expulsion of a member for wilfully violating the society's rules, or "becoming out of harmony with any of the Society's purposes or any of its work or for wilful conduct prejudicial to the best interests of the Society and contrary to his duties as a member, or upon ceasing to be a full-time servant of the Society or a part-time servant of a congregation of Jehovah's witnesses".An amendment to article VII, dealing with the governance of the society by its board of directors. The amendment deleted reference to adherence to the constitution and laws of Pennsylvania of the US. It also specified powers of the board including matters of finance and property.An amendment to article VIII, detailing the office holders of the society and the terms of office and method of appointment of officers and directors. A clause stating that board members would hold office for life was deleted. The new clause provided for board membership for a maximum of three years, with directors qualifying for re-election at the expiration of their term.[47] Governing Body In 1976, direction of the Watch Tower Society and of the congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide came under the control of the Governing Body, reducing the power of the society's president. The society has described the change as "one of the most significant organizational readjustments in the modern-day history of Jehovah's Witnesses."[48]Following the death of Knorr in 1977, subsequent presidents of the Watch Tower Society have been Frederick W. Franz (June 1977 – December 1992); Milton G. Henschel (December 1992 – October 2000) and Don A. Adams (October 2000–). Presidents Operations The corporation is a major publisher of religious publications, including books, tracts, magazines and Bibles. By 1979, the society had 39 printing branches worldwide. In 1990, it was reported that in one year the society printed 696 million copies of its magazines, The Watchtower and Awake! as well as another 35,811,000 pieces of literature worldwide, which are offered door-to-door by Jehovah's Witnesses.[49] As of 2013, the Society prints more than 43 million of its public issues of these magazines each month, totaling over 1 billion annually.The society describes its headquarters and branch office staff as volunteers rather than employees,[4] and identifies them as members of the Worldwide Order of Special Full-Time Servants of Jehovah's Witnesses.[5] Workers receive a small monthly stipend[50] with meals and accommodation provided by the society. The "Bethel family" in the Brooklyn headquarters includes hairdressers, dentists, doctors, housekeepers and carpenters, as well as shops for repairing personal appliances, watches, shoes and clothing without charge for labor.[51]The society files no publicly accessible financial figures, but reported in 2011 that it had spent more than $173 million that year "in caring for special pioneers, missionaries and traveling overseers in their field service assignments".[5][52] Donations obtained from the distribution of literature is a major source of income, most of which is used to promote its evangelical activities.[53]Author James Beckford has claimed the status of voting members of the society is purely symbolic. He said they cannot be considered to be representatives of the mass of Jehovah's Witnesses and are in no position to challenge the actions or authority of the society's directors.[54]Internationally recognized trademarks used on publications via subsidiaries:See also: List of Watchtower Magazine Headings Property ownership 2015 7% ownership in the J.P. Morgan Chase Liquid assets Mutual Fund Directors Current Don Alden Adams, director since 2000, president since 2000 Danny L. Bland, director since 2000 William F. Malenfant, director since 2000, vice-president since 2000 Robert W. Wallen, director since 2000, vice-president since 2000 Philip D. Wilcox, director since 2000 John N. Wischuk, director since 2000 Former Directors are listed generally from most to least recent. List may not be complete. Richard E. Abrahamson (director 2000-2004, secretary-treasurer 2000-2004) Milton George Henschel (director 1947–2000, vice-president 1977–1992, president 1992–2000) Lyman Alexander Swingle (director 1945–2000)[116] W. Lloyd Barry (director ?–1999, vice-president ?–1999) Frederick William Franz (director 1945–1992, vice-president 1945–1977, president 1977–1992)[117] Grant Suiter (director 1941–1983, secretary-treasurer)[118] William K. Jackson (director 1973–1981)[119] Nathan Homer Knorr (director 1940–1977, vice-president 1940–1942, president 1942–1977)[120] John O. Groh (director 1965–1975) Thomas J. Sullivan (director 1932–1973)[121][122] Alexander Hugh Macmillan (director 1918–1938) Hugo Henry Riemer (1943–1965)[123][124][125] William Edwin Van Amburgh (director 1916–1947, secretary-treasurer)[126][127][128][129] Hayden Cooper Covington (director 1940–1945, vice-president 1942–1945)[130] Joseph Franklin Rutherford (director 1916–1942, acting president[131] 1916–1917, president 1917–1942)[132] Charles A. Wise (director 1919–1940, vice-president 1919–1940)[133][134][135][136] J. A. Baeuerlcin (director 1923 fl)[137] R. H. Barber (director 1919)[138] Charles H. Anderson (director 1918–?, vice-president 1918–1919)[132] J. A. Bohnet (director 1917–?)[132] George H. Fisher (director 1917–?)[132] W. E. Spill (director 1917–?)[132] Andrew N. Pierson (director 1916–1918, vice-president)[126] Robert H. Hirsh (director 1917) J. D. Wright (director fl1916–1917)[126] Isaac F. Hoskins (director fl1916–1917)[126] Alfred I. Ritchie (director 1916–1917, vice-president)[126][139] Henry Clay Rockwell (director fl1916–1917)[126] Charles Taze Russell (director 1884–1916, president 1884–1916)[140] William M. Wright (?–1906)[141] Henry Weber (director 1884–1904, vice-president 1884–1904)[142][143] Maria Russell (née Ackley) (director 1884–1897, secretary-treasurer 1884–?, then-wife of Charles Taze Russell)[140][144][145] J. B. Adamson (director 1884–?)[140] Rose J. Ball (director 1884–?)[142] Simon O. Blunden (director 1884–?)[142] W. C. McMillan (director 1884–?)[140] W. I. Mann (director 1884, vice-president 1884)[140] J. F. Smith (director 1884)[140] See also: Centennial of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania (brochure / program)January 1945 Charter of the WTBTSofPenn References Pennsylvania Department of State. Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society 1959, p. 49 Jehovah's Witnesses—Proclaimers of God's Kingdom. p. 229. "Jehovahs loses comp case: Church may be forced to pay millions",//New York Daily News//, January 6, 2006. Retrieved October 3, 2009. Yearbook, Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society, 2009. Yearbook, Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, 2012, page 55. "Report for Fiscal Year", Watch Tower, December 1, 1896, page 301, Reprints page 2077 Retrieved 2010-03-30, "WATCH TOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY. REPORT FOR FISCAL YEAR ENDING DEC. 1, 1896. ALTHOUGH the above has been the recognized name of our Society for some four years, it was not until this year that the Board of Directors took the proper steps to have the name legally changed from ZION'S WATCH TOWER TRACT SOCIETY to that above. The new name seems to be in every way preferable." "Development of the Organization Structure", Jehovah's Witnesses – Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, 1993 Watch Tower, page 229, "Zion’s Watch Tower Tract Society. First formed in 1881 and then legally incorporated in the state of Pennsylvania on December 15, 1884. In 1896, its name was changed to Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society. Since 1955 it has been known as Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania." Franz 2007, pp. 80–107 Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society 1993, pp. 575–576 Zion's Watch Tower: 1. July 1879. "Encyclopædia Britannica – Russell, Charles Taze" Zion's Watch Tower, January 1881, Reprints page 1.] Zion's Watch Tower, April 1881, Reprints page 214. Zion's Watch Tower: 2. January 1882. J. F. Rutherford, //A Great Battle in the Ecclesiastical Heavens,// 1915, p. 14. C.T. Russell, "A Conspiracy Exposed", //Zion's Watch Tower// Extra edition, April 25, 1894, page 55-60. C.T. Russell, "A Conspiracy Exposed", //Zion's Watch Tower// Extra edition, April 25, 1894, page 55-60, "The affairs of the Society are so arranged that its entire control rests in the care of Brother and Sister Russell as long as they shall live... The fact is that, by the grace of God, Sister R. and myself have been enabled not only to give our own time without charge to the service of the truth, in writing and overseeing, but also to contribute more money to the Tract Society's fund for the scattering of the good tidings, than all others combined." Wills 2006, p. 91 J. F. Rutherford, //A Great Battle in the Ecclesiastical Heavens,// 1915, p. 14., "While there are nearly two hundred thousand shares, and it would be an easy matter to elect some other man as president, there never has been cast a vote against Pastor Russell. At the last election he was absent, his own votes were not cast, yet more than one hundred thousand votes of others were cast for him as president." //Zion's Watch Tower//, October 1894, page 330. Wills 2006, pp. 75 Pierson et al 1917, p. 22 Rutherford August 1917, p. 16 Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society 1959, p. 48 Allegheny City was annexed by Pittsburgh in 1909. Grizzuti Harrison 1978 Penton 1997, p. 39 Gruss 2003, p. 17 "Girl's midnight visit to Pastor Russell", Brooklyn Eagle, August 14, 1909, "His wife, whom he married 30 years ago, when she was Maria F. Ackley, obtained a limited divorce from him in Pittsburg on the ground of cruelty. The judge who decided for Mrs Russell granted her $100 a month alimony. Pastor Russell was slow in coming to the front with payments and finally stopped paying alimony altogether. An order was ordered for the pastor's arrest in Pittsburg, but Brooklyn is a comfortable enough place and Pastor Russell didn't like going back to Pittsburg where a yawning prison awaited him. He said that his friends had paid the alimony, anyhow, and that he was purged of contempt of court thereby." Gruss 2003, pp. 25–27 Pierson et al 1917, pp. 5,6 Pierson et al 1917, pp. 4 Rutherford August 1917, pp. 12 Rutherford August 1917, pp. 22–23 Rutherford August 1917, pp. 14,15 Pierson et al 1917, pp. 9 Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society 1993, pp. 68 Macmillan 1957, pp. 106 Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society 1975, pp. 93–94 Rogerson 1969, pp. 39 Wills 2006, pp. 175, 176 Consolation, September 4, 1940, pg 25, as cited by Penton, pg. 61. Wills 2006, pp. 201 Watchtower, June 15, 1938. Amendments to articles II, III, VII, VIII and X were passed unanimously, with more than 225,000 votes cast; the amendments to article V of the Charter, affecting qualifications for membership of the society, were passed 225,255 to 47. Articles of amendment to Watch Tower Society charter, February 15, 1945.Retrieved October 4, 2009. Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society 1993, pp. 108–109 Brooklyn Heights Press, March 15, 1990, page 1, as cited by Edmond C. Gruss, 2003, pages 72–73. A 1990 news report stated that Brooklyn workers received $80 per month to buy personal needs. See "A sect grows in Brooklyn", Philadelphia Inquirer, August 2, 1990. "A sect grows in Brooklyn", Philadelphia Inquirer, August 2, 1990. Yearbook, Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, 2012, page 55. Penton 1997, p. 231 Beckford, James A. (1975). The Trumpet of Prophecy: A Sociological Study of Jehovah's Witnesses. Oxford: Basil Blackwell. p. 83. ISBN 0-631-16310-7. Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society 1959, pp. 27 Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society 1959, pp. 47–48 Watch Tower March 1, 1909, pages 67,68. Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society 1959, p. 115 Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society 1959, pp. 97 Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society 1959, pp. 234 Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society 1959, pp. 253–255 Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society 1959, pp. 292 The Watchtower, September 1, 1989, page 29. The Watchtower, December 1, 1982, page 23. The Watchtower, April 15, 1996, page 24. Awake!, April 22, 1989, pages 25–27; "In fact, the Towers, 124 Columbia Heights, 107 Columbia Heights, and 119 Columbia Heights, which accommodate nearly 2000 of the family, are connected by underground tunnels." Centennial of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, 1984, pages 8–9. "New Shipping Facilities of Jehovah’s Witnesses", Awake!, August 22, 1987, pages 16–18. Jehovah's Witnesses sell the former Hotel Bossert Yearbook, Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society, 1988, page 25. Awake 1989, April 22, pp 23-24 "Wallkill and Warwick Projects Moving Ahead", JW.org News, May 13, 2013. Awake!, February 22, 1987, pages 25–27. "Watchtower project grows in Patterson", //New York Times//, April 18, 1983, 1993. Retrieved October 3, 2009. "Watchtower Society may move some NY offices", WCAX website, March 26, 2009. Retrieved October 3, 2009. "A Witness to the future as Watchtower buys land upstate", //The Brooklyn Paper//, April 2, 2009. Retrieved October 3, 2009. "Watchtower's move to Warwick? 'Not anytime soon'", //Brooklyn Daily Eagle//, October 24, 2011. "The Watchtower is getting tired of being shown the door in Brooklyn Heights",//The New York Observer//, October 25, 2011. ^ Jump up to://**a**// //**b**// "Historic Turning Point: After Century in Brooklyn, Watchtower Pulls Out of Heights", //Brooklyn Heights//, February 23, 2010. "The Witnesses Leave. Then What?", //Brooklyn Daily Eagle//, February 24, 2010. "Town OKs impact plan for Jehovah's Witnesses", //Times Herald-Record//, July 17, 2012. "Witnesses to Relocate World Headquarters", //jw.org News//, August 15, 2012. "Warwick OKs Watchtower Site", //Recordonline.com, Times Herald Record//, July 19, 2013. "Watchtower Buys Another Parcel", //Times Herald-Record//, August 25, 2011. "Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of NY Pay 3.2M for Flex Building", //Costar Group//, Sept. 21, 2011. "Annual Meeting Report", Aug. 15, 2012 Watchtower, page 17 "Suffern tenants must move after Jehovah's Witnesses group buys building",//Lohud.com//, June 12, 2013. "Increased Activity at United States Bethel", Our Kingdom Ministry, September 2003. "Watchtower to sell 6 Brooklyn Heights properties", //Brooklyn Daily Eagle//, April 26, 2007. Retrieved October 3, 2009. "Selloff! But Witnesses say they will remain kings of Kings", //The Brooklyn Paper//, May 12, 2007. Retrieved October 3, 2009. Yearbook, 1991, Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society, page 10. "Have a seat in the Standish", //The Brooklyn Paper//, December 15, 2007.Retrieved October 3, 2009. Different Building, Same Buyer for Witnesses Group with big Brooklyn plan snaps up property Second Witnesses property fetches $4.1M Praise God! Another Watchtower Property Sells Watchtower Sells Yet Another Heights Property, Brownstoner Brooklyn Inside and Out, November 30, 2012. New York Post, Brooklyn Blog, May 8, 2012, Brooklyn's Bossert Hotel could become a hotel again The Real Deal News, Nov. 12, 2012, Chetrit, Bistricer pay $81 million for Brooklyn's Bossert Hotel Jehovah's Witnesses Sell First Property for $7.1 million Latest Witnesses-owned property in Brooklyn Heights hits the market, //THE REAL DEAL//, July 24, 2012. "Watchtower Sells 67 Remsen Street for 3.25 million", //Brooklyn Heights Blog//, October 10, 2012. "Witnesses put prime Dumbo site on the block", //Crain's New York Business//, June 4, 2012. "Jehovah's Witnesses Sell Latest Dumbo Development Site for $31M", //The Real Deal//, April 25, 2013. Brooklyn-Bridge-Park "Developers Jostling for a piece of Brooklyn Bridge Park", //The Real Deal//, June 10, 2013. Watchtower Society selling five more properties in Brooklyn, NY, //THE REAL DEAL//, Sept. 16, 2011. "Big Deal: Jehovah's Witnesses List Prime Properties, //The New York Times – City Room//, September 16, 2011. "Witnesses knocking on $375M bldg. sale", //New York Post//, July 7, 2013. Hallelujah! "Jehovah's Witnesses land sell-off has Brooklyn dreaming big",//Crain's New York Business//, October 16, 2011. "No longer 'Vatican City' for Watchtower, Brooklyn watches jehovahs retreat",//Brooklyn Daily Eagle//, October 9, 2013 "Bible Truth Triumphs Amid Tradition", The Watchtower, May 15, 1985, page 27. "Your Will Be Done on Earth", The Watchtower, 1960, page 30. Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society 1959, p. 33 "Building to Jehovah’s Glory", The Watchtower, May 1, 1979, pages 26–29. 2012 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses p.32, 33, 55. Jehovah's Witnesses–Proclaimers of God's Kingdom. Watch Tower Society. 1993. p. 91. "How the Governing Body Differs From a Legal Corporation", The Watchtower, January 15, 2001, page 28. "Moving Ahead With God’s Organization", The Watchtower, September 1, 1983, page 13. "The Governing Body", 1974 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, Watch Tower, page 258 "Background of N. H. Knorr", Jehovah's Witnesses – Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, 1993 Watch Tower, page 91 "He Ran for 'The Prize of the Upward Call' and Won!", The Watchtower, September 15, 1974, page 554, "On October 31, 1932, he [Sullivan] was made a member of the board of directors of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania; he was also one of the eleven-member governing body of Jehovah’s witnesses." "A Time of Testing (1914–1918)", Jehovah's Witnesses – Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, 1993 Watch Tower, page 71, "Thomas (Bud) Sullivan, who later served as a member of the Governing Body, recalled, "It was my privilege to visit Brooklyn Bethel in the late summer of 1918 during the brothers’ incarceration." "Happy are the dead who die in union with the Lord", The Watchtower, May 15, 1965, page 320. "Experiencing Jehovah’s Love", The Watchtower, September 15, 1964, page 571 "Announcements", The Watchtower, May 15, 1965, page 320, "Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society of Pennsylvania announces herewith the death of Brother Hugo H. Riemer on March 31, 1965. After years of service as a pioneer publisher in the field, he was called to the Society’s Brooklyn headquarters in 1918, since which time he served with the Society’s headquarters till his death at eighty-six years of age. He was on the boards of directors of both the Society’s Pennsylvania corporation and its New York corporation, also serving in the official capacity of assistant secretary-treasurer of both corporations." "Organization of the Work", Watch Tower, December 1, 1916, page 391, Reprints page 6024 Retrieved 2010-03-30, "Two days after his [C. T. Russell's 1916] death the Board met and elected Brother A. N. Pierson as a member of the Board to fill the vacancy caused by Brother Russell's change. The seven members of the Board as now constituted are A. I. Ritchie, W. E. Van Amburgh, H. C. Rockwell, J. D. Wright, I. F. Hoskins, A. N. Pierson and J. F. Rutherford." "A Time of Testing (1914–1918)", Jehovah's Witnesses – Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, 1993 Watch Tower, page 65, "So, two days after Russell’s death, the board of directors met and elected A. N. Pierson to be a member. The seven members of the board at that point were A. I. Ritchie, W. E. Van Amburgh, H. C. Rockwell, J. D. Wright, I. F. Hoskins, A. N. Pierson, and J. F. Rutherford." "Moving Ahead With God’s Organization", The Watchtower, September 1, 1983, page 14, "The Society's secretary and treasurer, W. E. Van Amburgh, had become incapacitated due to advanced age and illness and so resigned from his position. I was elected to succeed him on February 6, 1947, and Brother Van Amburgh died the following day." "Testing and Sifting From Within", Jehovah's Witnesses – Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, 1993 Watch Tower, page 622, "In 1916, W. E. Van Amburgh declared, "This great worldwide work is not the work of one person... It is God’s work." Although he saw others turn away, he remained firm in that conviction right down till his death in 1947, at 83 years of age." "How the Governing Body Differs From a Legal Corporation", The Watchtower, January 1, 2001, page 28, "In 1940, Hayden C. Covington—then the Society's legal counsel and one of the "other sheep," with the earthly hope—was elected a director of the Society. (John 10:16) He served as the Society’s vice president from 1942 to 1945. At that time, Brother Covington stepped aside as a director" Rutherford chaired executive meetings in 1916 but was not formally elected president until 1917. During Rutherford's 1918–1919 incarceration, vice-presidents Anderson and Wise chaired executive meetings. "A Time of Testing (1914–1918)", Jehovah's Witnesses – Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, 1993 Watch Tower, page 68, "At the annual meeting held on January 5, 1918, the seven persons receiving the highest number of votes were J. F. Rutherford, C. H. Anderson, W. E. Van Amburgh, A. H. Macmillan, W. E. Spill, J. A. Bohnet, and G. H. Fisher. From these seven board members, the three officers were chosen—J. F. Rutherford as president, C. H. Anderson as vice president, and W. E. Van Amburgh as secretary-treasurer." Faith on the March by A. H. Macmillan, 1957, Prentice-Hall, pages 106, 110, "At New Year's time the Society held its [1919] annual election of officers in Pittsburgh... He [Rutherford] handed me a telegram saying that he had been elected president and C. A. Wise vice-president... C. A. Wise was there too. He had been elected vice-president while we were in prison." "Part 2—United States of America", 1975 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, Watch Tower, pages 113–114, "Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, January 2–5, 1919. This assembly was combined with the very significant annual meeting of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society on Saturday, January 4, 1919... There were nominations, a vote was taken and J. F. Rutherford was elected as president, C. A. Wise, as vice-president, and W. E. Van Amburgh, as secretary-treasurer." "Sweden", 1991 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, Watch Tower, page 135 The Watchtower, October 15, 1939, pages 316–317 Watch Tower, December 15, 1923, page 333 The Watchtower, October 15, 1939, pages 316–317, "The Society’s annual meeting in 1919 Jan. 4 in Pittsburgh reelected J. F. Rutherford President and W. E. VanAmburgh Secretary-Treasurer. But the others elected to the Board of Directors, viz. C. A. Wise (Vice President), R. H. Barber [...] were freer to carry out their responsibilities. When the imprisoned leaders were released, Barber resigned" "Ritchie, A. I.", Watchtower Publications Index 1930–1985, "Ritchie, A. I. vice president of Watch Tower Society (1916)" Watch Tower, January 1885, Vol VI, No. 5, page 1, [Reprints page 707], "A charter of incorporation for Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society was granted December 13, 1884. ... The incorporators are the Directors, named below... Directors C. T. Russell, Pres., M. F. Russell, Sec and Treas., W. C. McMillan, W. I. Mann, Vice Pres., J. B. Adamson, J. F. Smith." "Passed Beyond the Vail", Watch Tower, April 15, 1906, page 126, Reprints page 3765, "ANOTHER member of the Board... Brother William M. Wright, passed beyond the vail, into the Most Holy, we trust, on April 3." "Harvest Gleanings III", Watch Tower, April 25, 1894, page 131, "The Corporation is to be managed by a Board of Directors consisting of seven members, and the names and residences of those already chosen directors are (we given names of the present board and officers) as follows: -Charles T Russell, President, W C McMillan, Henry Weber, Vice President, J B Adamson, Maria F Russell, Sec’y & Treas, Simon O Blunden. Rose J Ball." "Entered Into His Rest", Watch Tower, February 1, 1904, page 36, Reprints page 3314, Retrieved 2010-03-30, "PILGRIM Brother Henry Weber has passed beyond the vail, to be forever with the Lord. We rejoice on his behalf. He finished his earthly course on Thursday, January 21, at 2.15 pm, at his home --Oakland, Md.--and was buried on Saturday, the 23rd. A large gathering, composed of his family, friends and neighbors, was addressed by the Editor of this journal... we will sadly miss our dear Brother, as a friend and as a Pilgrim and as Vice-President of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society" "Part 1—United States of America", 1975 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, Watch Tower, pages 65–66, "During the trouble in 1894, Mrs. C. T. Russell (the former Maria Frances Ackley, whom Russell had married in 1879) undertook a tour from New York to Chicago, meeting with Bible Students along the way and speaking in her husband’s behalf. Being an educated, intelligent woman, she was well received when visiting the congregations at that time. Mrs. Russell was a director of the Watch Tower Society and served as its secretary and treasurer for some years." The January 15, 1955 The Watchtower, page 46, referred to the former "Maria Frances Ackley, who had become a colaborer and a contributor of articles to the Watch Tower magazine. They came to have no children. Nearly eighteen years later, in 1897, due to Watch Tower Society members’ objecting to a woman’s teaching and being a member of the board of directors contrary to 1 Timothy 2:12, Russell and his wife disagreed about the management of the journal, Zion’s Watch Tower. Thereupon she voluntarily separated herself" Franz 2007, pp. 614–654 Franz 2007, pp. 69–124 The Watchtower, February 15, 1976, page 124, as cited by R. Franz, "In Search if Christian Freedom", page 107,"Would not a failure to respond to direction from God through his organization really indicate a rejection of divine rulership?" "Do not be quickly shaken from your reason", Watchtower, March 15, 1986 "At which table are you feeding?" Watchtower, July 1, 1994 Franz 2007, pp. 391–431 Gruss 2003, pp. 110–114 Holden 2002, p. 32 Bibliography Penton, James M. (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses (2nd ed.). University of Toronto Press. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. Rogerson, Alan (1969). Millions Now Living Will Never Die. Constable, London. Wills, Tony (2006). A People For His Name. Lulu Enterprises. ISBN 978-1-4303-0100-4. Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society (1975). 1975 Yearbook. Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society. Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society (1959). Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose. Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society. Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society (1993). Jehovah's Witnesses – Proclaimers of God's Kingdom. Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society. Macmillan, A. H. (1957). Faith on the March. Prentice-Hall. Rutherford, J. F. (August 1, 1917). Harvest Siftings. Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society. Retrieved July 19, 2009. Rutherford, J. F. (October 1, 1917). Harvest Siftings, Part II. Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society. Retrieved July 19, 2009. Pierson et al, A. N. (September 1, 1917). Light After Darkness. Retrieved July 21, 2009. Johnson, Paul S. L. (November 1, 1917). Harvest Siftings Reviewed. Retrieved July 21, 2009. Grizzuti Harrison, Barbara (1978). Visions of Glory – A History and a Memory of Jehovah's Witnesses. Simon & Schuster. ISBN 978-0-7091-8013-5. Edmond C. Gruss, Edmond C. (2003). The Four Presidents of the Watch Tower Society. Xulon Press. ISBN 1-59467-131-1. Holden, Andrew (2002). Jehovah's Witnesses: Portrait of a Contemporary Religious Movement. Routledge. ISBN 0-415-26609-2. Botting, Heather; Gary Botting (1984). The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. ISBN 0-8020-6545-7. wt charter Pennsylvania corp.pdf
  3. 1 point
    1877_Advent_Christian_Times_Barbour_Russell.pdf They stated that Russell was causing divisions in adventists circles that he was preaching a different gospel/doctrine to his church at that time subversion they try to 'belittle' him their own boast that they have not succeeded do NOT go near them (shunning) or give them any support (countenance) In essence the words used labels Russell as an 'apostate' to his current church at that time. BONUS: If you look at the header of the paper the symbol of the Advent Christian Times is suspiciously close to the one Russell "created" for the Bible Students (or not to say the same, but without the laurels at the sides).
  4. 1 point
  5. 1 point
    @JW Insider After quite some time reading this person's post, I cannot but feel that the proverb applies perfectly to this situation (Proverbs 9:8) . . .Do not reprove a ridiculer, or he will hate you. Reprove a wise person, and he will love you. . . This person (I think it is obvious to everyone who is) insults and disparages those who disagree with his thinking. Sadly, he thinks he defends Jehovah's Witnesses, but his unbalanced way of thinking is most confusing and pathetic. JWI, many appreciate your comments, but I would dare to advise you that, following the Proverb mentioned above, respond to this person in the most effective way: silence
  6. 1 point
    @BillyTheKid46, I thought you mostly just employed @Foreigner for vote spamming. I see you are doing some of the dirty work under your own name. And I also see you are nowhere near done yet, because you have added several more just since I copied the two images below. What's odd, however is that "both" of you have now voted down posts that contained nothing more than scriptures quoted from the NWT, and just above in this same topic, only 4 posts back, you (and Foreigner, of course) downvoted a post that does no more than introduce 3 Watchtower quotes about how long it took Adam to name the animals with surrounding context. Are you really that embarrassed by quotes from the Watchtower that you found it necessary to give two down votes to these Watchtower quotes????
  7. 1 point
    Someone commented on this when posted elsewhere: Yes...the faces of the locusts reveal much. Look closely at their faces and expression. Do these creatures look like humble representatives, Ambassadors, of the mild tempered, lowly in heart, Lamb of God? Do they look like they represent a noble king....or a Demonic Ruler? They do not look loving or approachable.
  8. 1 point
  9. 1 point
  10. 1 point
    Please, tell me what is difference when WT Society indirectly claim clergy status for Elders ?? Automatically given by each State?? Some explanation would be interesting to hear. IF it is automatically given, why WT and JWorg automatically accepting that?? Why they not make Legal Complain and "Fight in Courts" for neutrality and autonomy in that issue? :)) :))) Croatia is not communist country. Croatia is in NATO and in deep process of accepting all and every capitalistic idiocy.
  11. 1 point
    That’s right, those that stayed alive until 1975 got to be part of the 6000 years existence of mankind, and they also got to see the dramatic global changes that started humanity downward for the worse. So, yes! Stay alive until 1975. True Christians became one step closer to God’s fulfillment. No one, but no one can change that with distorted Watchtower publications. People can read ALL of them in its proper context, and perhaps experience the delight 1975 brought to those loyally serving god. They savored and relished every minute of it. To know at some distant point, none of this will matter, for all of us will be judged according to our deeds. There seems to be a disconnect when it comes to sincerity. Former witnesses here never have any.
  12. 1 point
    Seems a bit dishonest since apostate sites quote Watchtower publications as you do. What does that prove? That you think in the same lines of distorting the facts? How about some actual facts that everyone here implies.
  13. 0 points
    William Henry Conley. Co-owner of the Riter Conley company that provided steel and manufactured goods during the second industrial revolution. The first president of “Zions Watchtower” which would later be replaced with Charles Taze Russell. Conley eventually didn’t want to be associated with Russell, he didn’t agree with his pyramid theories and thought his 1874 prediction of Armageddon was ludicrous. So he disassociated himself to care for his wife whom he felt was more important than Russell’s cult following at the time. Russell went on to use Conley's $11 million today equivalent to fund his exhibition, and then Conley went on to believe the organization only wanted him for his money which he went to his grave believing. Upon his death, all trace of his existence and founding of Zions Watchtower was erased. An announcement was not made in Zions Watchtower, Russell did refer to him as “an original Allegheny bible student” though. Russell once believed Conley to be anointed, but do to “succumbing to worldliness and falling out, may be given another chance to awake with the great crowd on an earthly resurrection as a man who was hardworking and loyal.” THAT'S all Russell had to say about the president, the first president and founding member. This information wasn’t found out until 45 years later. Even the @The Librarian mentioned him in his articles such as this one: Birth 11 Jun 1840 Death 25 Jul 1897 (aged 57) Pittsburgh, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania, USA Burial Highwood Cemetery • Pittsburgh, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania, USA Plot Section R Memorial ID 62936475 · View Source
  14. 0 points
    Jack Ryan

    Watchtower Society attacks jw.help

    This is almost certainly because the jw.help logo is a blatant ripoff of the “jw.org” trademark. I hate to say this, and I'm not a lawyer, but jw.help is gonna lose this one badly and should put up a completely different logo and beg forgiveness immediately. It's pretty clear jw.help is “diluting” jw.org by having an official-looking logo and serving as an alternate source of information about the org. Hopefully they get to keep the name. That's pretty sweet.
  15. -1 points
    I would say it was an unfortunate collection of events, that altogether gave the impression that the society was promoting 1975 as the date for Armageddon. There is no doubt that it was insinuated by some prominent speakers at conventions (in America mainly?) and also those who were "living out their last days of this system selling their houses so they could pioneer" were publicly praised, ( also in the KM). It is no different now, those who give their all in full time service are also praised today, however, those who did this a few years before 1975 was no coincidence, and I believe the praise was worded in such a way that it was no coincidence either. There was so much insinuation that went unchecked, that it was no wonder 1975 became a fact, instead of what it was said to be, a maybe. It didn't help that one of the prominent brothers said in reply to "is Armageddon coming in 1975?": "we're not saying, we're not saying" which sounds like: "well yes of course it is, but I don't want to sound presumptuous". And who could help but not get excited by that famous Charles Sinutko talk where the phrase "stay alive till 75" was coined. All in all I think it has been a good lesson for most: know your Bible, and make sure of all things. And if your (Bible trained) instincts tell you something isn't quite right, then it probably isn't.
  16. -1 points
    Maybe is that what happened before, but also this what is happening now in the WT corporation, like this one; Dallas police officer was charged on Sunday with manslaughter in the fatal shooting of a neighbor, who authorities said was shot by the officer when she walked into an apartment she thought was her own and mistook the man living there for an intruder. The bizarre sequence of events unfolded after the police officer, Amber Guyger, 30, had just completed a shift late on Thursday and was still in uniform as she returned to an apartment she erroneously believed was hers, police said.
  17. -1 points
    Speaking of CANDOR ... the following cartoon is how "candor" works at Warwick World Headquarters, as well as at other businesses ... EVERYWHERE. We are NOT immune to this! It's a cartoon ... but what makes it funny ( and grabs your chest in a queasy sort of way generating sadness ...) is because there is SO MUCH TRUTH, in this satire of what is REAL.  Here is a joke for you: QUESTION: What do you call "candor" ... bundled with insincere kindness? ANSWER:: No one knows, as truth is being deliberately obscured.   Your homework (should you decide to accept) is to print out the above CANVAS on an 8-1/2x11" piece of paper and find the six things that are deliberate lies, and write it on the margins of your paper. Â
  18. -1 points
    @James Thomas Rook Jr. I totally agree with your first comment above and I believe the first paragraph of this second comment. As for the full proceedings, I didn't watch it all but have seen 'bits' via youtube or somewhere. I do know that the Org tried to withhold information from the Charity Commision here in the UK. I find it so funny when you call JW Org 'OUR' system or org. I cannot fully understand why anyone with your knowledge of the GB / W/t / JW Org would want to be any part of it, but maybe you are still getting info to pass on to us. I would think that half of the time the criminal or sinner is an Elder, and that he is liked and protected by other Elders, so justice is seldom done. And all is hidden behind closed doors. Whereas in that 'wicked old world' outside the Org, justice is more often done, and is seen to be done.
  19. -1 points
    Brother Jackson did an excellent job under the circumstances. Some of what he said indicated that the GB really would go back and rethink policies that were in place, and I believe it's no coincidence that we have seen more good progress since the ARC hearings. However, I never heard anyone (who watched Jackson's testimony in its entirety) point out any instances or evidences of humility. Sorry to say it, but his overall demeanor, to me, actually stood out as haughty and smug. I don't think that was just me. And it's not that I think this is how he is, or how the GB usually are, I have seen many instances of the GB showing humility and true concern. But I saw several evidences of the opposite, here. In fact, I think that McClellan, took notice of Brother Jackson's (who is an Australian citizen) attempts to reposition his testimony as an "opportunity" and something that worked out because he was only there (traveling in Australia) to take care of his elderly father. In fact, I understand that for no other person did Judge McClellan thank someone for their testimony and then add the words he added here at 1:07:41-45. The Judge, with a possible bit of derisive head-shaking of his own adds: ". . . you are now formally excused from your summons." It's even possible to interpret the half-second loss of Brother Jackson's "smirk" to that very remark at 1:07:47.
  20. -1 points
    I try to be a good Jehovah's Witness, because I recognize that it is, as I have said before, "the only game in town." But I am not a Corporate shill, and divorce myself publicly from the areas where Corporate Protection is the foremost consideration, and lack of common sense, and lunatic reasonings on theology ( which is now controlled by the Society's Lawyers and Accountants...) rules. THAT'S how I do it.
  21. -1 points
    It does NOT get any simpler than this: If the Elders learn of something that is a criminal act involving Child Sexual Abuse ... ALWAYS report it to the Civil Authorities. ONE SENTENCE! Problem solved.... globally, and 100%. See, that was not so hard. .... ALL ELSE IS THE PURVEY OF WEASELS.
  22. -1 points
    Seems to me, Butler has me confused with “witness” that pretends to be anointed. Seems to me Kid has no idea what he is on about. Who could confuse that kid with anyone else. The Kid is a one of a kind loony. “you can’t fix stupid”. Well you should know Kid, you have to live with yourself being like that all the time. In the Greek Scriptures it is basically Anointed men speaking to Anointed men and women when it comes to instruction and direction. Those of that era / time were of the heavenly calling. Jesus said “And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd. other sheep, those too I must bring, they will listen to my voice The earthly class are the 'Other sheep', that Jesus 'must bring', and Jesus was talking in future tense, 'They will listen to my voice'. And Jesus says these other sheep (the earthly class) are not of this fold, meaning not of the heavenly calling. Seems easy enough to me, but then I'm not blinded by the Devil / GB / JW org.
  23. -1 points
    So has the Watchtower, up until now.
      Hello guest!
    ANOINTED CHRISTIANS (Also called 144,000; Anointed; Body of Christ; Bride of Christ; Chosen Ones; Elect; Holy Nation; Israel of God; Kingdom Class; Little Flock; New Creation; New Nation; Royal House; Royal Priesthood; Sanctuary Class; Sons of Levi; Spirit Begotten; Spiritual Israel; Spiritual Sons) Teachings always change; lies change into more lies, even the truth gradually changes into a lie. Today's "Body of Christ" taught by the Watchtower, includes every JW. I only know this from hearing it on a JW broadcast about building a convention center, I believe. The elder used the term "Body of Christ" in reference to all JWs. Rev 16:13,14
  24. -1 points
    Thanks for explaining. This was the impression I got from you, and it was reinforced with this other idea that you conveyed: that since the scriptures were only written to and for the anointed, we must take a kind of 'sit-and-wait' attitude until it becomes obvious who they are. You also have said that you think the end will not take place before the end of your own lifetime, an idea probably also partly based on the fact that no group of anointed has yet become so obvious in our day that '10 men are taking hold of them' because they can see that God is with them. One reason I responded with an entire thread on this was because this overall idea seemed too passive. It really would lead to the idea that unless some group of truly anointed were making it extremely obvious that they were right in some inspired kind of way, then all of us can just sort of wait until that changes. But Jesus seemed to say that preaching and converting others through making disciples of him was going to be the way in which this message about God and his Kingdom through Christ would reach to the ends of the earth. To me that seems quite different. Also, just my opinion, but I don't think we need anything except to keep our eyes open and see the works of various Christian brotherhoods to know whether or not Jehovah's spirit is acting upon them. By their works you will recognize them. It's not that works result in our salvation, but that the "works" of the spirit result in "love, joy, peace, patience, etc., etc." If our hearts desire Christian association with loving, peaceful, patient persons, we would find such ones to associate with. The nuances of doctrine (like "who is the Jew with the 10 men at his robes?") is completely unimportant. But a doctrine of peace that results in them not going to war with each other would seem quite important. Personally, I would not wait for a group that explains Scripture better than the next group. That has always just been a "sub-religion" much like the philosophies of the Greeks that they thought was real wisdom. Scripture is already there for us. We don't have to understand it any further than what was already put there. In our hearts we know enough about Jesus parables just by reading the overall message. We have no further need of prophets, and voices, and tongues, and inspiration, because Jehovah has already put the basic message in our hearts from what inspiration has already written. This is one of the reasons that the book of Revelation was almost voted out of the 66 book canon. It was written in such a way that it took away from the idea that we need nothing further to be written to us (by future interpreters). Yet even this book exercises the depth of our Christian faith if we remember that it should not distract from the idea that the end could come at any time, and that we are not waiting for specific events to happen, but that it can happen at any time. On that topic, remember that Jesus said the end could happen at any time, and it would be a surprise, as if without warning of any kind. Of course, he also made it clear that it could happen at any time immediately after the Roman armies sacked Jerusalem, which basically happened in 70 CE. Your own view makes it easy to put this off, by waiting for an additional sign. Paul did mention an additional sign prior to 70 when he said that we weren't waiting for a group of semi-inspired anointed to watch for, but that there would be a semi-inspired powerful force that would have to come first. This kept the Thessalonians from getting too excited about the end coming when 70 CE had not even come yet. He told them that we needed nothing to be written to us about the times and seasons of the parousia because it would come as a surprise, like a thief in the night, even though we are "awake" enough so that it will not overcome us as victims the way a thief overcomes his victim. He reminded the Thessalonians that people could be taking note of peace and security, and therefore it would be a complete surprise. But he also told them to prepare for the possibility that they would sleep in death before Jesus returned. But that semi-inspired or pseudo-inspired powerful force to watch for apparently turned out to be the many anti-Christs that John spoke of in his letters. Paul had put it in "apocalyptic terms" and I think the book of Revelation even more so: I'll end on this because it's long, but I think it's curious that Paul's only warning sign prior to the parousia was about a man of lawlessness (the apostasy already at work) and a counteracting force of restraint that was almost out of the way. (This was apparently the apostles, but some could argue that it extends to our day as the apostleship continues to be represented by men governing the congregation.) (2 Thessalonians 2:1-12) . . .However, brothers, concerning the presence [parousia] of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you 2 not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here. 3 Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. 4 He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you, I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is acting as a restraint, so that he will be revealed in his own due time. 7 True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work, but only until the one who is right now acting as a restraint is out of the way. 8 Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence. 9 But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness. John, possibly the original apostle by that name, apparently outlived the year 70 CE, and he still says something similar, but his solution is that all of them were anointed and all of them therefore have no need of someone or some group to continue teaching them, because the anointing itself teaches all of them the truth. (1 John 2:18-27) 18 Young children, it is the last hour, and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared, from which fact we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But they went out so that it might be shown that not all are of our sort. 20 And you have an anointing from the holy one, and all of you have knowledge. 21 I write you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie originates with the truth. 22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Everyone who denies the Son does not have the Father either. But whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also. 24 As for you, what you have heard from the beginning must remain in you. If what you have heard from the beginning remains in you, you will also remain in union with the Son and in union with the Father. 25 Furthermore, this is what he himself promised us—the life everlasting. 26 I write you these things about those who are trying to mislead you. 27 And as for you, the anointing that you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to be teaching you; but the anointing from him is teaching you about all things and is true and is no lie.. . .
  25. -1 points
    Believers will accept the claim that the writers and books (later collected in the Bible) were inspired by God. The question is: Are people who collected the old records of these letters and books, were inspired for this work of gathering/collecting ?? Did they need to be inspire for this collecting?? Next question is: People said that Roman Catholic Pope was made decision what will be gathered and put in one book, the Bible. Did he been inspired by god while did it? Third question is: Did they found all letters and writings? What is with other writings that pope did not want to put in Bible? Are those writings uninspired? Fourth question is? Do JW feel how "new scriptures, new instructions" they expect to receive, is in future, after Armageddon? Or it would be possible for such records to appear at this time? If this will be in future, do they feel how such new writings will be made by inspired individuals or group? And how will/would this individuals or group to prove that they are inspired? (According to GB self claim, they are not inspired. So, by this, we can conclude how such new writings and instructions are not possible to have today. And because, supposedly, they will go to heaven before Armageddon, in the New World some other people, Not Them as Anointed Channel, will make/write new instructions. But that is OK, because error and uninspired instructions can be written by other people, too, not only by GB).
  26. -1 points
    How can you say that the Watchtower society / JW Org / GB dispense truth when they keep changing the meaning of scriptures ? It is not a lie to say they they have changed the meaning of the scripture concerning 'This generation will not pass away' .. It is not a lie that they changed the meaning of the scripture concerning the 'Superior Authorities'. it gets boring repeating this but you obviously don't believe they change the meaning of scriptures. They also misuse scripture and misuse their 'authority' but that is another matter. The GB have no way of proving that they have been chosen by God to do His will. They admit not to be inspired. They even admit that they make mistakes. If they have the responsibility of 8.5 million lives already, and if they have yet another 9 million bible studies going on, and if they have the job of gathering all those with the right heart condition, then surely they would need to be inspired by God, and surely Jesus Christ would not let them give false information or make mistakes which would stumble thousands of people earthwide and stop some people even being interested in the JW Org. As for understanding, you only seem to understand the GB's / Watchtower's meaning of scripture, so you prove yourself to be following MEN. Sorry Billy but you do make yourself open to criticism by your blindly believing all that the Watchtower / GB tells you.
  27. -1 points
    Just in case anyone wondered why I had thought to make the point that it was my own opinion that the sheep separated to Jesus' right would include the "anointed" -- here's the reason: Our current Watchtower publications very often imply that the sheep that Jesus separates to his right do NOT include the anointed. Because of the distinction made between Christ's brothers and these sheep, I think most Witnesses already understand it this way, but it's rarely stated explicity and succinctly except in some convention talks. The most succinct statement I remember in writing is here in the Insight book: *** it-1 p. 1184 Illustrations *** Notice that the “sheep,” who are put on the right hand of the enthroned Son of man, are shown to be different from Jesus Christ’s “brothers,” to whom they did acts of kindness.—Mt 25:34-40; Heb 2:11, 12. There have been several significant historical changes to our interpretations of this doctrine, which might make for an enlightening discussion to some. But I won't intentionally drag out this particular thread to explain. The 93 and 95 Watchtower references from the WT Publications Index will give some significant quotes about former doctrinal beliefs on the topic: [Matthew] 25:32 it-1 1183-1184; w15 1/1 13; re 123; w98 8/15 20; w95 2/1 12-13; w95 10/15 22-24; w93 5/1 19; jv 163-164; w89 5/1 19; w87 3/1 29; w87 5/15 12-13 [Matthew] 25:33 it-1 1029, 1184; w95 2/1 12-13; w93 5/1 19; jv 163-164 [Matthew] 25:34 it-2 1207; w95 10/15 26-27; jv 164; gt 111; w90 5/15 8; w90 6/1 6; w89 9/1 19-20
  28. -1 points
    He might be, he might not be. But I'm just grandad that is left on the sidelines and I suppose it looks as if I'm bitter about it. So do I just mind my own business, or is it my business ?
  29. -1 points
    Everybody that is a busybody does not think so ... in their own minds. Was it Shakespeare in "Henry V" that told of King Henry walking among his soldiers in disguise, at night, to listen to their campfire talk, in the unwarranted invasion of France, and one soldier said to another " I hope our Sovereign is doing the right thing, as we have to obey him, but he will answer to God for what we do, here" (heavily paraphrased from memory ....) Or, as Yoda said "There is only do ...or do not. There is no try!" (My advice is ...) Either GO TO WAR ... OR RETIRE FROM THE FIELD ! If you do decide to go to war ... be prepared to lose, badly. THERE IS ONLY ONE EXCUSE FOR BEING A "BUSYBODY" ! ..... if you win.
  30. -1 points
    I agree completely. But he asked. (And he asked nicely, and I think he was really interested.)
  31. -1 points
    I believe we settled that my arms are NOT for self defense. I believe you mention that for yourself. I fear no man even unto death as you coward behind your weapon. I will have to belatedly agree with you BTK ... a scoped 50 caliber sniper rifle, as you have admitting owning, but reticent to relate how you acquired it, is NOT a defensive weapon, except in warfare. It is obviously, to everyone who knows about such things, an OFFENSIVE weapon for preemptive strikes. This claim of yours is new (please show evidence if I am wrong ...). Here is the clincher: How often do you hunt game with your sniper rifle, and what have you bagged. If you do not have a truthful answer, you are living in a fantasy world of your own manufacture.
  32. -1 points
    I apologize for you getting in the crossfire, JWI ... but BTK46 INSULTED MY .22 CALIBER RIFLE! i UNDERSTAND BTK46 WAS JUST A FUNNIN'' ... BUT YOU SEE, ... MAH RIFLE JUST DOHN UNNERSTAN' ! He accused my rifle of hiding cowards! What BTK got out of ALL my previous posts is that I DO NOT HAVE MY WEAPONS FOR SELF DEFENSE ! If there is ANYTHING that proves for all time, with absolute certainty, that his thinking is totally hosed, screwed up, and agenda driven ... THAT IS IT. YIKES!
  33. -1 points
    If I was you, TTH, I would worry less about Gregg G. Stafford's efforts to turn Jehovah's Witnesses' life, culture, and theology into museum pieces, and more about the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses doing just that. The efforts of the GB cause millions of people to "come into the Truth", but they also chase millions of people away, after they do. It's like a person who makes his fortune in New York City, and finds that the City and State do not consider him to be a citizen, as much as they consider him a cash cow. There is nothing more portable than people with money who are tired of being treated badly by State and local governing bodies, and when they find they have no voice at all to protest this treatment, they realize that they can vote with their feet, and take their wallets with them, leaving the States and Cities to become museum pieces in a slow, tragic death spiral. Detroit is a classic example ...one of many. The same is becoming more and more true about Jehovah's Witnesses, who often, unless they are mindless sycophants, chafe and tire of the uninspired and erroneous, and heavy handed (in a silk glove) treatment they get in pursuing equity and Justice, and Truth. So ... they take the Truth they have with them, and their wallets with them, like spilled gold dust disappearing through cracks in the floor. They too ... vote with their feet ... and their wallets ... leaving the Organization to be surrounded with sycophants, admiring their Telly Awards, and cartoon evangelizers. "We have seen the Enemy" .... and He is Us" - Pogo ( The reason I stay, is I have a very high pain tolerance, and expect nothing from anybody ... and $30 every few months is all I can afford, and I allocate that to "local needs".)
  34. -1 points
    I have never communicated with Greg Stafford in any way, although I did communicate several times with one of his friends and associates, Rolf Furuli. Furuli indicated that Stafford's NT Greek is excellent and that he writes meticulously on the topic of Trinity. I never had any interest in engaging Trinitarians because I think it's a "done deal." So there's really nothing left to talk about. At Bethel, someone had to do some research on Trinity, and managed to find some fairly new information that could be related to John 1:1 from Philo. It was the last time I ever showed any interest in it, because there is just so much out there, but it's all so repetitious. *** w85 12/15 p. 25 “The Word Was With God, and the Word Was . . . ”? *** In 1984 there appeared in English a translation from German of a commentary by scholar Ernst Haenchen (Das Johannesevangelium. Ein Kommentar). It renders John 1:1: “In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and divine [of the category divinity] was the Logos.”—John 1. A Commentary on the Gospel of John Chapters 1-6, page 108, translated by Robert W. Funk. Philo has therefore written: the λόγος [Logos] means only θεός (‘divine’) and not ὁ θεός (‘God’) since the logos is not God in the strict sense. . . . In a similar fashion, Origen, too, interprets: the Evangelist does not say that the logos is ‘God,’ but only that the logos is ‘divine.’ In fact, for the author of the hymn [in John 1:1], as for the Evangelist, only the Father was ‘God’ (ὁ θεός; cf. 17:3); ‘the Son’ was subordinate to him (cf. 14:28). But that is only hinted at in this passage because here the emphasis is on the proximity of the one to the other.” A German-speaking brother translated that portion in 1981, because the book was only out in German at that time. I think it's an excellent explanation of John 1:1. I'm curious now if Greg Stafford uses it in his books. I see he has several different books in several versions on a website here:
      Hello guest!
    That same site also has Rolf Furuli's book about Bible Translation selling on it, right next to Stafford's book: "Jehovah's Witnesses Defended." Made me think that Stafford might still be a JW, because I'm pretty sure Rolf Furuli still is. Haven't spoken to Furuli in several years now, although he sent me his books for free. I sent money anyway, but it was a nice gesture. To the chagrin of some here, I have already told of brothers in the Writing Department, and even a few Governing Body members, who didn't fully accept 1914 (including GB members: Chitty, Swingle, Schroeder, Sydlik, R.Franz). For those who know the background discussions going on at the time --actually even since the late 1960's-- that might seem understandable. But another member of the Writing Department told me something that was less believable. He says that in the 1990's there was a brother in the Writing Department, brilliant with NT Greek, who actually came to believe, not in the Trinity, per se, but in Jesus Christ's full divinity. He evidently came to believe that John 1:1 says what traditional Trinitarians think it says. He had no problem with anything else as far as I was told, and I don't know how much longer he tried to stay and work with the Writing Department. But naturally, when it was more widely known, he was out of there. I have a feeling this is one of the most rare things, to see a former brother who STUDIED the topic, start believing in that part of the Trinity. I would lose any last bit of respect for Stafford if he turns out to have gone back to believing in the Trinity, or parts thereof. Does anyone know?
  35. -1 points
    Great! Just great! And how am I supposed to knew whether the next comment from you is actually from you or from one of the 18 chickens?
  36. -1 points
    Yes. Of course. Moses had a hierarchy. The Watchtower has admitted that the organization can be thought of in this way.
  37. -1 points
    Just as the word "Gay" means something COMPLETELY different than when you and I were growing up ... perhaps the word back then meant something like urinating in public, or dressing in such a way that was immodest if one was incontinent. With our track record of being right about such things, it may have originally meant anything at all EXCEPT what the Society officially tells us is the case.
  38. -1 points
    James Thomas Rook Jr.

    Isn't this an idol?

    Africa Inland Mission tie, eh? Perhaps that is what the scripture meant when the Greek word for "brazen" which literally means "in-continent" (per Outta Here) was used. Either peeing without self control, or being inside a continent, such as Inland Africa. .... Depends!
  39. -1 points
    I liked Thayer's glossary definitions included in the post linked below. But to avoid diverting people off to another topic, I'll just repost that definition: But it's not a terrible translation, as it really was used in Greek with reference to "brazen hussies." (shameless hussies, and wanton hussies - and brazen hustlers, too, for that matter.) Literally, it meant people who were not so moral as those good folks up in the town of Selge, Pisidia, Asia Minor. It's much better than the old translation in the NWT (loose conduct) which was actually a mistranslation because it implied lesser moral infractions of a more general variety. Note Thayer's: ἀσέλγεια, -ας, ἡ, the conduct and character of one who is ἀσελγής (a word which some suppose to be compounded of the α privative and Σέλγη, the name of a city in Pisidia whose citizens excelled in strictness of morals [so Etym. Magn. 152, 38; per contra cf. Suidas 603 d.]: others of α intensive and σαλαγεῖν, to disturb, raise a din; others, and now the majority, of α privative and σέλγω equivalent to θέλγω, not affecting pleasantly, exciting disgust), unbridled lust, excess, licentiousness, lasciviousness, wantonness, outrageousness, shamelessness, insolence:Mark 7:22 (where it is uncertain what particular vice is spoken of); of gluttony and venery, Jude 1:4; plural, 1 Peter 4:3; 2 Peter 2:2 (for Rec. ἀπωλείαις), 2 Peter 2:18; of carnality, lasciviousness: 2 Corinthians 12:21; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 4:19; 2 Peter 2:7; plural "wanton (acts or) manners, as filthy words, indecent bodily movements, unchaste handling of males and females, etc." (Fritzsche), Romans 13:13. (In Biblical Greek besides only in Wis. 14:26 and 3 Macc. 2:26. Among Greek writings used by Plato, Isocrates and following; at length by Plutarch [Lucull. 38] and Lucian [dial. meretr. 6] of the wantonness of women [Lob. ad Phryn., p. 184 n.].) Cf. Tittmann i., p. 151f; [especially Trench, § xvi.].
  40. -1 points
    I'm pretty sure that everything you said in this post was true. But with some caveats that I'd like to highlight. If we take Acts 15 as fully parallel to Galatians 2, as you and Outta Here have done, then I agree that we should not consider the apostles and older men of Jerusalem to be "Judaizers." In Acts, Peter and James are fully credited with doing things correctly, and all blame is placed on the sect of the Pharisees and believers like them. Evidently, in my opinion, this sect of the Pharisees, or similar Judeans pushing circumcision, were seen (by the Galatians at least) as getting their authority from men like Peter, James and John. Therefore Paul warns them, in my opinion, that even if it were Peter, James and John, or even an angel, that they should not submit. But Paul never says it wasn't them giving authority to the Judaizers. He never exonerates Peter, James and John. He even goes so far as never to actually call them "pillars" but couches their authority in language like "seemed to be pillars" and that it wouldn't matter who they were anyway, because they are just men, and Paul isn't trying to please men. Of course, in other places, and here, too, Paul also goes into a discussion of where his own authority comes from and why no one could say that any of Paul's authority came from Jerusalem. As in at least two other places, Paul sees fit in this context to compare his own authority, with that of the apostles in Jerusalem. It seems that if Paul were trying to exonerate Peter, James and John, (as Acts 15 does) then he would not be expected to add so many phrases that diminish their authority, and he would have no reason to highlight his independence from Jerusalem. He surely could have exonerated them by mentioning the decree that they had agreed to. If Paul had still considered this decree authoritative, it was the perfect answer to the Galatians who thought that James and Peter were on the side of circumcision, and the whole problem with the Galatians would be over. On another note, Paul doesn't even mention the "decree" in any of his letters. The closest he gets to discussing the decree is in 1 Corinthians 8, where he appears to contradict what it said about eating food sacrificed to idols. However, I now believe I was mistaken in trying to tie this Judaizing so directly to Peter and John. And @Outta Here has me thinking it might not apply to James either. Not that they ever were ACTIVE Judaizers, but I thought Paul was including Peter's example, because Peter had publicly sided with the Judaizers even though admittedly temporarily. This had put a stamp of authority on the Judaizers which allowed Paul's audience to believe that those apostles with authority over Paul actually had the last word on circumcision. Judaizers were spoken of as being smuggled in, rather than just coming of their own accord. And Paul said that these men were "from James" implying that James, another man of great reputation and authority among the apostles at Jerusalem, had given a stamp of authority to the Judaizers. I'm not yet convinced, as Outta Here seems to be, that saying that a group of Judaizers came from James, is really about the same as saying that a group of Judaizers came from Judea. If he had said, "from John" would that also just mean "from Judea"? I'm sure that Paul is at least saying that James knew their beliefs and that he had sent them, purposely, perhaps not to engage with Paul to subvert him, but to listen carefully to what he was saying to gentile converts about the Mosaic Law. James would therefore be admitting tacitly that he expected a potential problem would need to be resolved and the people he sent would have been most sensitive to what Paul was teaching. I also don't know if we can say that they worked things out so "amicably" but things did finally work out over time. I mention this for the same reason I mentioned a transition period that is indicated in Acts between chapters 15 and Acts 21. In fact, I think if we look closely at Acts, that it's easy to see that Luke's goal was to leave out a lot of detail when it detracted from the minimum that a Christian needed to know about the past. I'll get to that later, and the rest of this post will just be a background for later reference before talking about the way Luke/Acts selects details. I once tried to reconstruct the timeline of Acts from the chronology markers, to match it up with Galatians and others of Paul's letters, and this is much easier to do now with the Internet (and the Bearing Witness book), and so many online reference works available. It might seem like a waste of time, but it might give also us some insight into the types of things Luke includes in Acts and what he leaves out. That might not seem important now, but for me, it was a key part of my overall opinion (which could be partially or completely wrong, of course) along with a comparison between Acts, Galatians and the letters to the Corinthians. Here we can also compare Acts 21:20-26 to Acts 15: (Acts 21:20-26) . . .After hearing this, they began to glorify God, but they said to him: “You see, brother, how many thousands of believers there are among the Jews, and they are all zealous for the Law. 21 But they have heard it rumored about you that you have been teaching all the Jews among the nations an apostasy from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or to follow the customary practices. 22 What, then, is to be done about it? They are certainly going to hear that you have arrived. 23 So do what we tell you: We have four men who have put themselves under a vow. 24 Take these men with you and cleanse yourself ceremonially together with them and take care of their expenses, so that they may have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know that there is nothing to the rumors they were told about you, but that you are walking orderly and you are also keeping the Law. . . . 26 Then Paul took the men the next day and cleansed himself ceremonially along with them, and he went into the temple to give notice of when the days for the ceremonial cleansing would be completed and the offering should be presented for each one of them. By this time, Paul had been teaching that Jewish persons need not follow the customary Jewish practices. And by this time, Paul had already been saying that if anyone gets circumcised, then they are under obligation to keep the entire Law. Undeserved kindness+faith was being contrasted with works of Law as the "path to salvation," but by the time Ephesians was written, undeserved kindness+faith was apparently being contrasted with good works of any kind as a path to salvation. Paul had already been teaching about circumcision and extending it to mean any type of putting oneself under law, just as trying to gain salvation by works had extended past works of Law to any good works. Ephesians 2:8-17. Note that these verses were written to uncircumcised believers, but with an obvious application to circumcised Jewish believers, too: (Colossians 2:13, 14) . . .He kindly forgave us all our trespasses 14 and erased the handwritten document that consisted of decrees and was in opposition to us. He has taken it out of the way by nailing it to the torture stake. (Galatians 5:2-6) . . .See! I, Paul, am telling you that if you become circumcised, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3 Again I bear witness to every man who gets circumcised that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4 You are separated from Christ, you who are trying to be declared righteous by means of law; you have fallen away from his undeserved kindness. 5 For our part, we are by spirit eagerly waiting for the hoped-for righteousness resulting from faith. 6 For in union with Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any value, but faith operating through love is. (Romans 2:28, 29) . . .For he is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision something on the outside, on the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit and not by a written code. That person’s praise comes from God, not from people. The bt book mentions these same scriptures and notes that this case in Acts 21 depicts Paul becoming a Jew to those who are Jews to hopefully win them over. (1 Corinthians 9:20) 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew in order to gain Jews; to those under law I became as under law, though I myself am not under law, in order to gain those under law. So far none of this is a problem to understanding it the way you (Anna) have presented it.
  41. -1 points
    TTH says "The things Jehovah’s Witnesses have reinterpreted, or even flip-flopped on, are all superfluous things " Such as the 'Superior Authorities' for instance, and 'This Generation' for another. And such as not all Anointed are the faithful and discreet slave, only the GB. solidly established for over 100 years: But altered many times in the process. Armageddon due in 1914, 1975 and now it 'so close' it's 'just around the corner'. TTH you make me laugh. You are so blinded by your GB and all the other hierarchy in those two 'organisations'. The org didn't even figure out the name Jehovah, they 'stole' it from elsewhere. They are all trimmings on the tree, and not the tree itself. No, the tree itself is Almighty God, Jesus Christ, the Anointed, God's written word, faith, love and mercy. It does not include the GB or JW Org. And yes the purpose of Jesus coming to earth and giving his life willingly was to give glory to God in heaven. And the one through whom any human will get saved is Jesus Christ. Christ is our judge, having been given the authority and power by his heavenly Father. Unfortunately the GB of JW Org think they are our judges. They add further burdens to the shoulders of others, and will not even lift a finger to help. The apostles said, recorded at Act 15 v 28 & 29 For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things:29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!” Oh yes and look it says 'the holy spirit' which proves it was inspired. But your GB and hierarchy are not inspired are they ?
  42. -1 points
    I found this: 9 Faith Groups That Reject the Trinity -
      Hello guest!
    I believe how same is with immortal soul. JW's are not only one who have this teachings.
  43. -1 points
    .... and that, dear genteel souls, is why everyone reading this today are not slaves of the thousand year reign of Adolph Hitler, and his Third Reich, DAILY facing extreme hardship, deprivation, and death.
  44. -1 points
    Our friend @Space Merchant The roots of the Unitarian movement lie mainly in the reformation of the 16th century. At that time people in many countries across Europe began to claim the right to read and interpret the bible for themselves, to have a direct relationship with God without the mediation of priest or church, and to set their own conscience against the claims of religious institutions. - source
      Hello guest!
  45. -1 points
    Until now, as SM and i had conversations, he never said his clear position to this question. I don't know what stops him to tell us to Whom He Belong? :)) He is man of integrity and don't want to lie, but in the same time not want to tell the truth... perhaps he is silent on this because of that reason.
  46. -1 points
    Even the part about 2060 being the final year? He actually never published that ... after his death, those conjectures were found in his notes. He also thought that Armageddon may be as early as 2032. I suppose it is a matter of credibility. Would you be inclined to believe someone who was never wrong in what they published ?... or someone who was never right in what they published.? ..... even if you are just looking over their posthumous notes. It's all about credibility, and gullibility. ..... and money.
  47. -1 points
    If you really believe something is the case, and you tell someone else ... and what you tell them is NOT true ... you are NOT a liar ... you are merely wrong. If you KNOW something is NOT true, and tell someone else, only THEN is it a lie. That is why credibility is so very important ... so the one receiving the information can correctly evaluate MOTIVE. If it is difficult to determine what is truth... what is merely wrong ... and what is an outright lie ... FOLLOW THE MONEY.. The tracks money leaves, always tells the truth. If someone is hiding their tracks ... they are hiding the truth. They are lying about something. .... perhaps everything.
  48. -1 points
    Yes. I have cancelled my subscription to the Watchtower. Also The Week. Also my trips to the library. Also any further visits to JW.org. How could I ever have wasted all those hours? Now I am a regular reader. I do nothing else. (No. I have yet to visit. That is not to say maybe it will be so someday. Try.to keep your enthusiasm in check)
  49. -1 points
    "Never at Rest" by Richard Westfall is a biography of Newton that covers his "Observations upon the Prophecies" and contains the idea expressed earlier that he was clearly not asserting these dates, but just trying to put a stop to the rash conjectures. The scrap is evidently from a time later in his life, and the FOUR big mistakes in the last 12 words showed how much he cared, in my opinion. I think he was falling asleep around the last two lines. ... One thing that Newton said that might be worth considering is his view on parts of Revelation, which rings true.
  50. -1 points
    OK, I know some people will not like this and they will call it gossip but my wife and I are worried about it so it needs to aired out. We have one daughter that is still a JW. i will call her H. She is married to a non JW. She has 4 children. This daughter does not seem to recognise any dangers at all about her children. She invites anyone to her house without really knowing who they are or anything about their past. 3 of the children are girls and they attend ballet and tap dance lessons. They are only young, the oldest being around 8 years old. Today they were in a performance /show in Exeter, a biggish show that their teacher was putting on for all parents, grandparents, etc. I wasn't allowed to go of course as I'm a 'naughty boy' that left the Org. My wife went to the show and was surprised to find two 'brothers' there. One of the 'brothers' is a young single Elder and the other 'brother' is an old man that has recently been reinstated and moved into Honiton congregation. This older man frequently visits H and her daughters at their home and the girls call him Uncle Phil. He seems very 'friendly' toward the girls. H does not know where this 'brother' is from but he is now part of the Honiton Congregation which H and her children attend, here in Devon. It seems strange to me that this man has just arrived at Honiton Congregation and just been reinstated. My wife says he has a London accent. If I were still a JW I would ask him bluntly why he was disfellowshipped and where he is from, but of course I cannot do that now. I have his full name, so is there any way i can run a check on him ? Should i contact an Elder at Honiton Congregation and tell them of the concern my wife and I have ? If this 'brother' had been involved in a child abuse accusation would they have told H about it so that she could be on her guard ? Some on here may think I'm just trying to cause trouble, but my wife came home this evening and is looking very worried. It seems that H had invited both 'brothers' to the meal afterward and my wife felt unhappy about the whole situation. TTH will probably bring out the rule book again and say 'it never happens', but child abuse does happen and needs to be looked for all the time. Our daughter H seems to have no idea about the situations that have taken place, and in honesty she doesn't want to know. So how can my wife warn her ?

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