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  1. 2 points
    Shiwiii

    Permission to get baptized

    agreed. isn't that what was proposed in Tony's hypothetical situation? no mention of dedicating oneself to an organization either. or their parents according to Tony Morris.
  2. 2 points
    Shiwiii

    Permission to get baptized

    I would have to agree, it is serious and should not be taken lightly. However, the number of children baptized into being jws is pretty high and when Tony Morris is telling folks to keep a drivers license away from a child UNTIL they get baptized, leads me to believe that a jw baptism is done for many reasons other then the individual's seriousness towards God.
  3. 1 point
    Here is the weekly material for the next 2 weeks November 11-17 and Nov. 18-24, 2019. TB MEETING WORKBOOK week of November 11-17, 2019 text only.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK week of November 11-17, 2019.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of November 11-17, 2019.pdf Watchtower November 11-17, 2019.doc Watchtower November 11-17, 2019.pdf Additional Highlights -November 11-17, 2019.doc Additional Highlights -November 11-17, 2019.pdf CBS November 11-17, 2019.doc CBS November 11-17, 2019.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK week of November 11-17, 2019 text only.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of November 18-24, 2019 text only.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK week of November 18-24, 2019 text only.doc CBS. November 18-24, 2019.pdf CBS. November 18-24, 2019.doc Additional Highlights -November 18-24, 2019.pdf Additional Highlights -November 18-24, 2019.doc Watchtower November 18-24, 2019.pdf Watchtower November 18-24, 2019.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of November 18-24, 2019.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK week of November 18-24, 2019.doc
  4. 1 point
  5. 1 point
    Especially since their "record" shows them to be "false prophets".
  6. 1 point
    Witness

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    "Therefore if you have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?" Luke 16:11 Greek meaning for "unrighteous" - unjust; by extension wicked; by implication, treacherous; specially, heathen:—unjust, unrighteous. Now, your WT quote again, deceptively explaining the meaning for unrighteous riches as physical, earthly - "Only Jehovah God and his Son can receive someone into the heavenly Kingdom or the Paradise on earth under that Kingdom. We should diligently cultivate friendship with them by using what material riches we have in supporting Kingdom interests. Our everlasting future will thus be ASSURED when gold, silver, and other material riches fail or perish." You believe that your use of wicked, treacherous, heathen, unjust...material "riches"/"treasures", to support the organization's "Kingdom interests", will ASSURE YOU ETERNAL LIFE in the Kingdom, where "righteousness" will dwell. 2 Pet 3:13 "Who can bring what is pure... (eternal life in the "righteous" Kingdom of God from the impure? ("heathen, wicked" treasure having its source in the world of Satan) No one!" Job 14:4
  7. 1 point
    Shirley Lowery

    Throat Lozenges

    I did use them for my cough and a sore throat, but they were so good, I ate them like candy!!
  8. 1 point
    Shirley Lowery

    How old were you in 1982?

    I was 25 1/2 years old, and my oldest daughter was born on February 16, 1983! She turns 37 years old next February!
  9. 1 point
    Shirley Lowery

    My First Concert was _______

    The Bee Gees at the Tarrant County Convention Center in 1979! I found out I was pregnant with my oldest son who turns 40 next year! He was born on March 6, 1980! Also, Charlene Tilton (Lucy) from DALLAS was in the audience! I went over to get her autograph, so did other people, when we noticed she was sitting in her seat, but then the Concert started! I still have the original ticket from the Bee Gees Concert! Great Memories!!! I also have the original Bee Gees Record Albums- THE BEE GEES GREATEST (1979) and THE ORIGINAL SOUNDTRACK FROM SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER and a CD from the BEE GEES, when Robin, Maurice, and Barry sang together!
  10. 1 point
    Witness

    Only jws will be saved

    Watchtower 1990 11/1 p. 26 Our Relative Subjection to the Superior Authorities "As Christians, we face up to similar challenges today. We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry—be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization." Jesus' words apply today, just as when he said them 2000 years ago: Jesus told her, “Believe me. A time is coming when you Samaritans won’t be worshiping the Father on this mountain or in Jerusalem. 22 You don’t know what you’re worshiping. We Jews know what we’re worshiping, because salvation comes from the Jews. 23 Indeed, the time is coming, and it is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth. The Father is looking for people like that to worship him. 24 God is a spirit. Those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” John 4:21-24 There is still no need for an earthly "mountainlike organization". Do you know what you are worshiping?
  11. 1 point
    Of course I do. I am sure my comments support the scripture. If you’ll reflect on the title of this post, it gives hint that it is your leaders who utilize 1 Tim 6 to label those who question the organization’s teachings as “unruly men who cook up wicked reasonings, season their brew with poisonous lies that deceive minds”. This quote comes from one of your conventions: You have heard the saying, “when you point a finger, there are three fingers pointing back to you”. Jesus said it like this: “Hypocrite! First take the beam of wood out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to take the splinter out of your brother’s eye.” Matt 7:5 JWs easily forget the false doctrines that the organization is built on, and which will eventually bring it to the ground. Matt 7:24-27 We have a choice today, one that involves our spiritual health. It is our obligation to heed the words of Christ and the apostles. If we notice any deviation from these teachings, the apostle Paul says: “Examine yourselves to see if your faith is genuine. Test yourselves. Surely you know that Jesus Christ is among you; if not, you have failed the test of genuine faith.” 2 Cor 13:5 If a JW is taught, admonished, expected to adhere to a new teaching that must replace an old teaching because your leaders were WRONG to begin with, who is the mentally diseased one? It is the one who expects you to follow their guidance even though they persist in wrong teachings. Would you keep buying a product from a retailer that has a track record of producing bad products? Of course not! How much more should we test, and REJECT the teachings of those who have been consistently WRONG? If you continue to spend your spiritual life in a haven of spent teachings scattered around you, what progress have you made toward developing genuine faith? If you continue to eat “fruit”/teaching that is rotten, you also, become mentally diseased. Matt 7:15-20 “If anyone teaches false doctrine and does not agree with the sound teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the teaching that promotes godliness, 4 he is conceited and understands nothing, but has an unhealthy interest in disputes and arguments over words. From these come envy, quarreling, slander, evil suspicions, 5 and constant disagreement among people whose minds are depraved and deprived of the truth, who imagine that godliness is a way to material gain. From such people withdraw yourself.” 1 Tim 6:3-5 False doctrine is deprivation of truth. Truth in Christ imparts life. John 14:6 They cannot reside together. 2 Cor 6:14 Jesus was considered mentally diseased also, for speaking against the teachings of the Pharisees. Mark 3:21; John 10:20; 8:48 Those of us who leave the organization to follow in Christ’s footsteps will find the same to be said about us. “A disciple is not above his teacher, or a slave above his master. It is enough for a disciple to become like his teacher and a slave like his master. If they called the head of the house ‘Beelzebul,’ how much more the members of his household!” Matt 10:24,25 “ When we apostles told you about the powerful coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, we didn’t base our message on clever myths that we made up. Rather, we witnessed his majesty with our own eyes. 17 For example, we were eyewitnesses when he received honor and glory from God the Father and when the voice of our majestic God spoke these words to him: “This is my Son, whom I love and in whom I delight.” 18 We heard that voice speak to him from heaven when we were with him on the holy mountain. 19 So we regard the words of the prophets as confirmed beyond all doubt. You’re doing well by paying attention to their words. Continue to pay attention as you would to a light that shines in a dark place as you wait for day to come and the morning star to rise in your hearts. 20 First, you must understand this: No prophecy in Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation. 21 No prophecy ever originated from humans. Instead, it was given by the Holy Spirit as humans spoke under God’s direction.” 2 Pet 1:16-21 Now, consider your long list of changed teachings, of failed Armageddon dates…”Beliefs Clarified”. Whose teachings do you really follow? Those sourced in the Spirit of God, or in human interpretation – clever, ungodly myths that have captivated and corroded any true faith one may have in God and Jesus Christ? Col 2:8 They are "clever" because JWs stay captivated to what will be produced as "new light" to come. They are "ungodly", because a lie is always, a lie. 2 Thess 2:9-12: "The man of sin will come with the power of Satan. He will use every kind of power, including miraculous and wonderful signs. But they will be lies. 10 He will use everything that God disapproves of to deceive those who are dying, those who refused to love the truth that would save them. 11 That’s why God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe a lie. 12 Then everyone who did not believe the truth, but was delighted with what God disapproves of, will be condemned." I know I have said similar things in previous posts on this thread, with the hope something said will "click" in the mind of some JW.
  12. 1 point
    LNN

    2019 Protests

    So the world is exploding in protest right now... We now have concurrently.... Barcelona 2019 Protests Lebanon 2019 Protests Ecuador France - firefighters vs. Police? Hong Kong Have I missed anything? It seems like technology though is helping the Carrie Lam's of the world stay in power and control the populist uprisings. Oops.... and Jane Fonda had to get in on the action:
  13. 1 point
    Srecko Sostar

    Permission to get baptized

    Do you go to doctor who "know how" to help in your sickness, but have no diploma for that? Do you go on his/their door because of your endless trust to people who proclaim that they can heal people, or you go there because he finished some education? There is people who can help without having certificate. But when he help you in wrong way you have no basis for asking him to "pay" you because he make your life or health to be problematic. You choose him to do job he is not qualified for. In this matter, JW members have big trust on human who take a lead. Well, you can, of course show trust to both group, with and without diploma. If that how it is with elders, only words of other people that this elder can be trusted without question, similar way of logic you can use on people (candidates for baptism) who have to proof how their deeds and intentions are good, too. Yes, this i like to hear. :)) So, this old ferry tails about how, after period of how congregants voting for elders, was also another period and that is, when holy spirit appointing elders, we now have that "biblical pattern" how in fact only legitimate way is when "traveling representatives" doing this. Well: 1) voting is wrong way 2) spirit is wrong way What are all those elders in and from period of 1) and 2) ? What are their "credentials", how much value have their spiritual service if way of appointing them was been administrative error of WT Society? Errors made by voters and by spirit, who have illegally done something for what they have no authorization? And CO today have such authorization, :))) Who put them on that position of CO? Spirit, voters, GB, or previous CO? :)))
  14. 1 point
    Matthew9969

    Permission to get baptized

    I wonder if they have a separate set of question for children?
  15. 1 point
    Matthew9969

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    So the engineers and such who planned the new luxury digs for the gb were high school dropouts who just read a lot of awake magazines?
  16. 1 point
    Shiwiii

    Permission to get baptized

    Yes, Tom, I should have worded it differently. Choose one: Srecko destroyed your attempt at sarcasm here in this post, Srecko destroyed your post. Srecko dismantled your sarcasm here in this post, Point is still, without trying, he made your statement void before you even said it.
  17. 1 point
  18. 1 point
    I find it quite funny that Srecko destroyed your inability to form sarcasm here in this post, without intent, with his example of the Ethiopian and Phillip before your comment. Acts 8: 35-38 Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus. As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?” And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him.
  19. 1 point
    TrueTomHarley

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    I am reminded of LeRoy Green—he would have said something like this. Leroy Green, who in the mixed congregation would drawl on without the slightest self-consciousness about “working for the white man” down in Mississippi. LeRoy Green, who retired from the railroads after 30 years with an intact pension. LeRoy Green, who in his 80s, was sought after by the younger brothers so they could jam with him. LeRoy Green, who, as I learned from relatives at his funeral, turned down an offer to tour with B.B.King, out of concern for his family and spirituality. LeRoy Green, with the most deep and infectious “hee-hee-hee” laugh you have ever heard, who I tried to line up to one day give my own funeral talk. It would have been one not to miss. I would have raised myself up from the dead to hear it: “Hee hee hee. Yeesss, that Tom Harley, he was a good ol boy. But he’s deeead now—D-E-A-D!” Unfortunately, LeRoy Green died first. He would have been one to say—I think I do recall him saying it—that keeping up with theocratic publications was the equivalent of a 4-year college education.
  20. 1 point
    Didn't the watchtower say that some of the self appointed anointed may have mental illness?
  21. 1 point
    Which response? I gave more than one. There goes another JW, comparing the GB to the apostles. They were inspired, the GB is not. The elders, except for a minuscule number, are not even anointed. It was Peter and the apostles who said, "We must obey God rather than men!" Acts 5:29 Our obedience is to truth. If an anointed leads in truth, then that one leads another to Christ. Since the GB have flunked leading people in truth, then who should we obey? We obey Christ's teachings. That way, we won't be found a fool. Matt 7:26 Outta Here did a fine job listing the variations of 2 Pet 2:16 "madness" "irrationality" "foolishness" "insane" As an example of madness, irrationality, and foolishness, please consider this: your GB has targeted the "King of the North" as Russia. This was in 2018. This should mean to JWs that Armageddon is nigh. Today, the wonderful announcement has been made that a media center the size of Warwick will be finished in about 5 years. On the cusp of a raging King of the North pouncing on JWs, business goes on as usual and the excitement is hardly containable. "We're ramping up production in response to heavy demand" of audio-visual offerings, Zick said. "People find these materials to be useful, so we're putting more resources behind them, and we're putting everything under one roof." Newsweek Sat, Nov 02, 2019 Then He spoke a parable to them, saying: “The ground of a certain rich man yielded plentifully. 17 And he thought within himself, saying, ‘What shall I do, since I have no room to store my crops?’ 18 So he said, ‘I will do this: I will pull down my barns and build greater, and there I will store all my crops and my goods. 19 And I will say to my soul, “Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years; take your ease; eat, drink, and be merry.” ’ 20 But God said to him, ‘Fool! This night your soul will be required of you; then whose will those things be which you have provided?’ 21 “So is he who lays up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.” Luke 12:16-21 13 Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to such and such a city, spend a year there, buy and sell, and make a profit”; 14 whereas you do not know what will happen tomorrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away. 15 Instead you ought to say, “If the Lord wills, we shall live and do this or that.” 16 But now you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil. James 4:13-16 Do YOU believe that THEY believe Armageddon is nigh?
  22. 1 point
    The GB may not claim to be “God”, but by the doctrine they have developed, they have bestowed on themselves and the elders, the power to act as God and Christ, by disfellowshipping any who reject their unsound doctrine which has little or no scriptural basis. The Bible definition of an apostate is not the one who rejects made up stories by men; but is the one who creates them, and expects other to follow without question. “For the time will come when people (JWs) will not tolerate sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, will multiply teachers for themselves because they have an itch to hear what they want to hear.” 1 Tim 4:3 If you want to hear that 1. an organization is your salvation Acts 4:11,12 2. that men who have failed in Bible predictions and doctrine from day one, are appointed by God. Deut 18:20-22 3. that Zion/Temple of God is the organization and not the Temple priesthood (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22; Rev 5:9,10) and so forth... then, who is the spiritually and mentally, unstable apostate according to scripture? 2 Pet 2:1-3
  23. 1 point
    I'll try to be more connective. Matthew9969 is stating that the GB is mentally diseased. I agree, and gave reason for it. His reason is because he feels they believe they are God. I believe their “god” is the organization, while calling on God at the same time. Matthew mentioned idolatry; and yes, they are idolaters. It is preached that the organization is necessary to bring one salvation. If you personally, truly believe no one is equal to or greater than God, than you would truly believe the organization is not a fundamental necessity to worship Him. Is the organization your refuge, or is God your refuge? “Still, as a people, “the chosen ones” and their loyal companions will physically survive the end of apostate Christendom by taking refuge in Jehovah and his mountainlike organization.” WT 11/1/15 p. 4,5; par 8 “To whom will you compare Me, or who is My equal?” asks the Holy One. Isa 40:25 These men - the GB - have the ability to twist their words over a given time, which is a sign of mental and spiritual corruption. They speak of God, but in their right hand they hold a lie. He feeds on ashes. His deceived mind has led him astray, and he cannot rescue himself, or say, “Isn’t there a lie in my right hand?” Isa 44:20 Watchtower 1990 11/1 p. 26 Our Relative Subjection to the Superior Authorities "As Christians, we face up to similar challenges today. We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry—be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization." COMPARE TO THIS QUOTE: Kingdom Ministry 11/1990 p. 1 Directing Bible Students to Jehovah’s Organization "Bible students need to get acquainted with the organization of the “one flock” Jesus spoke about at John 10:16. They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah’s organization is essential to their salvation. (Rev. 7:9, 10, 15) Therefore, we should start directing our Bible students to the organization as soon as a Bible study is established." BOTH MADE IN THE SAME MONTH OF THE SAME YEAR
  24. 1 point
    THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH, THIS IS REALLY AN GREAT HELP. MAY JEHOVAH YOU ALL.
  25. 1 point
    You are saying he has to understand the meaning of an apostate according to the Watchtower – “Deliberately spreading teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught by Jehovah’s Witnesses" Par 16, chapter 5 of Shepherd the Flock of God. This is where “doctrine” needs defining in 1 Tim 6:3-5 “ If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the [a] (“teachings”)doctrine which accords with godliness, 4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5 [b] (“constant friction”) useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and *destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.” Have the GB spread wrong teachings about Bible truth? Well, yes. https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200277174 Those are just what they have deemed necessary to change. There are still outstanding doctrines that they won’t let go of. (1914, for one) *destitute – to defraud, rob, despoil Every wrong teaching by the GB over each year the organization has been in existence, has robbed its members of truth. Those who withdraw themselves from such spiritual corruption are called “apostates” based on doctrine as taught by Jehovah’s Witnesses. If they seek authentic truth from Christ, they are not the apostates. Rather, those who have held back “wholesome (‘sound, free from any mixture of error’) words” from their hearers, are men of corrupt minds, believing they can feign godliness for their own gain. And, men of corrupt minds, "know nothing". If they knew truth from Christ, would there be a need for the list in the link above? John 16:24 The GB has been successful at feigning godliness, while using a pointer to explain the new meaning of “this generation”. “Now I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who create divisions and obstacles contrary to the teaching that you learned. Avoid them.” “…who create divisions and obstacles” – The obstacle is the false teaching, the division occurs when one rejects it and is labeled,“apostate”. Rom 16:17 "Who are the Mentally Diseased?" - Pearl Doxsey, 4womaninthewilderness blogspot
  26. 1 point
  27. -1 points
    Witness

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    Did Jesus say we could use our material riches for him? This contradicts his words in Luke 18:22: When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.” Matt 6:19-21 There is no scripture that I know of, indicating where Jesus put any value on accumulating money or riches and providing these riches for him. Matt 21:12,13 Do you remember it was Satan who offered Jesus the kingdoms, their glory (and their riches) in the world? Do you think he has, in the last days, made a pact with Satan, that he’ll now take riches from JWs for himself to build his own kingdoms in the world? “Unrighteous riches” convey a different, spiritual meaning: “When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money 19 and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” 20 Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21 You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God.” Acts 8:18-21 No one, can buy the gift of life with money or material riches, as the WT is telling you. Undoubtedly, the world will suffer in extraordinary ways that we haven’t experienced before. But, you are reading into a symbolic book, Revelation, an incorrect view the meaning of “buy and sell”. In three instances, the book uses the word “buy”. “I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. 19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent.” Rev 3:18,19 I know you don’t think Christ is offering us literal gold, and we do not buy this gold with literal money. This ‘treasure’ in gold refers to eternal life gained from the outpouring of his blood. We “buy” this, not with literal riches in the world (that Wt teaches as “unrighteous riches”) but through repentance, obedience, and faith in his sacrifice. We pay for it with our pure, clean, refined devotion to God. Mal 3:2-4; 1 Cor 3:13,14; John 17:17 We pay back Jesus by offering ourselves as obedient servants to his commands. John 15:10; 2 Cor 5:15 The symbolism of “buying” continues in Rev 13:17, where the “Beast”/false prophet of Rev 13:11,12 admonishes one to “buy” ITS spiritual “riches” produced by the organization that it directs. (The WT also refers to the Wild Beast of Rev 13:1 as an "organization") If one decided to reject this spiritual commodity, they are spiritually, symbolically “killed”. Rev 13:15 Now, isn’t this what the GB expects of all JWs, to “buy” whatever “food” comes from the “faithful and discreet slave” who “sell” it under the stipulation that no other spiritual commodities are acceptable? How does a JW pay for it? With their devotion, servitude and respect for the organization and its leaders. One must bear the “mark of the beast/organization” to take part in this spiritual transaction. There’s a lot of controlled buying and selling by all parties, in the org. 2 Cor 11:2-4




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