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  1. 4 points
    James Thomas Rook Jr.

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    College Educations are NOT for the best and brightest, although they can be. They are for the average Joe and Joanna who has to make a living ... and MUST have degree, or advanced degree to even get INTO their chosen field of endeavor, and out of grinding, soul killing, corrosive, abject poverty that never will end. The choice for the average person is get a college degree, and LEARN what is necessary, and get a recognized document that PROVES they are proficient, or in most field that are not just low wage, slave labor, grunt work ... they cannot EVER get employed. Most people on this planet are just average people, and that includes Jehovah's Witnesses, who make it a source of pride to be "humble". No one EVER gets hired BECAUSE he is "humble". They get hired because they have marketable skills. AND CAN PROVE IT. For those NOT highly motivated and have an aggressive attitude, say the top 15% of humanity ... the ability to get a job and keep a job not limited to the expression " ..you want fries with that? ..." at subsistence wages or less depends on FORMAL, accredited, and documented education. Consider the fact that if you are driving your car on a city street, and you have every skill necessary to be a good driver ... all the skills needed ... but you do NOT have a valid driver's license. There is a word for that. Pedestrian. I HAVE BEEN BLIND, TWICE, AND YET WITH MANY THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FOR EACH EYE, I HAVE 20/20 VISION CLOSE UP, AND FAR AWAY, AND IT MAKES LIFE A GREAT JOY. ALL DAY! EVERY DAY! It is no shame to be poor, or on the ragged edge of poverty ... but it is NOTHING to brag about. ... and when someone asks me "you want fries with that ...", I usually reply "Yes, two LARGE orders" Tankyou berry much. Much is said about the desirability of a "Simplified Life" .... Want a simplified life free from stress, fear and constantly scrabbling to survive? It's EASIER for those fully competent ... and can prove it.
  2. 3 points
    A brother in charge of the PR department at Bethel for a while told me that probably 90 percent of those who drift away because they no longer believe what they once believed are never heard from again. The 10 percent who make noise probably make noise mostly because they are angry that they have been cut off from the love of their family. They can no longer see their grandchildren, their children, parents, or grandparents, or cousins, aunts and uncles. To him the apostate problem was the loud voices, the negative interviews they gave, and the protests at assemblies and headquarters. He thought we could resolve almost all of the apostate problems if we merely changed the one rule about cutting of the natural affection of the family. There was some vacillation on this point for a while. In those days, he said that the only two serious negative issues to deal with for a PR department were "blood and blood." (Meaning blood transfusions and blood relatives.) His worst nightmare was when a baby died, or a child died, when all evidence showed that it was because the parents refused a blood transfusion. Pregnant mothers died from lack of a transfusion, too, after a delivery, and this was almost as bad. Custody issues also tended to focus on the way one parent, the Witness, would handle a blood related emergency. The other topic, stated above, was about cutting off family members who were disfellowshipped. Today of course, there might be other issues people are speaking up about, such as CSA. I tend to agree that it is mostly those who harbor some kind of anger who rant on about 1874, pyramids, the Millions/1925 campaign, Miracle Wheat, Salon Society, Beth Sarim, Blood, Transplants, etc. A tiny percentage had their own issues with blood, but the people who scream about blood policy the most are those hurt by being rejected from family ties, not because they had any experience with the blood issue. Today, I'm guessing that most of those who make noise about CSA have never had a personal negative experience with CSA. Obviously there are exceptions, and who knows about the 90-percent/10-percent estimate anyway? But I think we should be careful about judging everyone who leaves by the noise that the noisiest apostates make. I've never seen a crowd of apostates bigger than 40 or so, and some of these same persons make plans to travel around the world to keep the numbers of protesters looking large. Compare that to the MILLIONS now living who no longer believe the JW doctrines. I also get the feeling that many of the loudest voices don't really even believe that CORRECTING Witness doctrines is all that important. Perhaps "Witness" and "Pearl" are exceptions, but I think most of the loudest voices don't really think that correcting JW doctrines is any more important than correcting Catholic or Mormon doctrines, because they most likely have no specific Christian anchoring of any kind. But they focus on JWs because that's where their anger or even hatred is focused. I read something from one of the loudest voices against CSA (whose last name is a type of tree). There is a real hatred for elders. It's obvious. At the assembly, we were told that it wasn't about those who had drifted, but those who "push" away and show prideful arrogance and bitterness. I think we've seen cases where prideful bitterness and arrogance and hatred have been nurtured to truly become a mental disease. Diagnosable and certifiable. I won't point to any specific names, but there's that guy who stuck his name on "silent lambs" for example, if the stories I've heard are true. Still, we can't judge generally of the millions who have drifted away, and just don't want to revisit something that has become painful to them. Even among the brotherhood, there is more and more evidence of perhaps hundreds or even thousands of Witnesses who are PIMO (Physically in, mentally out). A few months ago, I had no idea that there was such an expression, but I just "reddit" and discovered that there are many who plan to leave quietly, without raising their voice, and not making a scene. Mostly it looks like they do this to keep the family bonds intact. Relative to "sickness" it reminds me of this verse: (1 Corinthians 11:30) 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and quite a few are sleeping in death.
  3. 2 points
    Hate to say it, but @Witness is right on this. The Watchtower source is very recent, and I have previously quoted it on the forum. I assume "Witness" has quoted it here too. Unfortunately, you would be wrong on that question, too. "Witness" says he was referring to the more subtle meaning of setting oneself in a position of authority like God, which is not done with a direct claim. But there are quotations from quite a bit further back in the Watchtower which taught a direct equivalence between the words of the Governing Body, and the words of God. Prior to that, the Watchtower claimed that those of the higher calling, the Bride of Christ, could be spoken of as the "Mighty God" and the "Everlasting Father" and the "Prophet Greater than Moses."
  4. 2 points
    JW Insider

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    Wow! Then you were one of very few who saw it back in 1980 when it was a makeshift "9th floor" of the 8-story factory building at 117 Adams. I only saw it because I would sometimes give special request tours. I seriously don't believe that more than 50 brothers out of 3,000 New York Bethelites had ever seen it. It was even left off the route of those who did night guard duty, and they provided their own janitorial services. It was not really even gaining traction yet by 1980, and ultimately would not be end-to-end testable until 1985. Also, back in 1979 and 1980, persons from the Home Art Department got a tour of the APS5 machine that would someday hook up to Wallkill's MEPS system for typesetting. As early as 1978, artists could go down to the "Photoplate" department's large camera darkroom, where they could use a small manual machine to "set" headline type, one letter at a time, exposing it from a negative strip of letters and shining it down onto a piece of film below. This way one could use a calligraphy font for example, and get the letterspacing just right, and then use other darkroom cameras with exposure tricks to produce special effects, to create an outline font, Gaussian blur and drop shadows, for example. By 1985, it was well tested, and before they declared a success, they wanted to make sure that any of the machines could produce disks to work on any other machine. They had every conceivable accent mark for all languages that the Watchtower was printed in by then, and made a big splash in 1986 by setting several of these machines in branches all over the world. The small team of brothers in Wallkill had a huge success, and all training on the machine would be handled up at the Farm. It was delicious irony that all the experts had been down in Brooklyn for most of this time. The most important thing is that it "got the lead out." For many decades, all typesetting for the publications had been done with small metal blocks that were lined up the way newspapers had done it, and these columns of blocks created a "mold" that was dipped in hot molten lead, then electroplated with zinc to last a bit longer. Some factory floors literally contained a ton of lead. The presses also were fitted to run with these lead plates, so that probably 25 percent of the factory workers handled lead during some part of the process. The new typesetting machines could now use a computer keyboard, and film could now be moved directly to "offset" plates made out of film for offset presses. By the early 1980's, no more new letterpress presses would be purchased. Offset was closer to a mimeograph process, but so accurate that you could line up 3 and 4 colors onto the same rolls of paper. (Playboy had been using 5 colors, I learned from one brother in charge of an offset process.) Sometimes "spirit and wisdom" was deemed to be the equivalent of the "number of years managing a small corner of a factory bureaucracy." Ultimately, a world-class typesetting solution was delivered, by volunteers, and it still works today, 35 years later.
  5. 2 points
    Arauna

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    Just wanted to add - it is I interesting that many smart kids also are good in music. Music lights up many parts of the brain in scans. It is also the last skill to die off in Alzheimers. I think that training in music teaches discipline and focus and this benefits children in other fields. All children should learn music for a while if possible. It is remarkable that so many Jews learn music and many play in ensembles (it teaches people to listen to others and work together to produce something with esthetic value). It is not surprising to me that they have a higher average IQ than other nations.
  6. 2 points
    Arauna

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    Thanks for that personal experience and viewpoint. I have seen (especially in computer field) many brilliant kids. One of my nephews also played music while teaching himself programming. He is a firewall programmer (or something very saught after in protection field) without a degree. I marvel sometimes at kids who turn out technical machines in poor countries (especially central Africa) where the intellectual and technical landscape is barren. They somehow find books and teach themselves. My best friend in Africa has a son who manufactures feeding machines for factories (including car factories). He designs and makes them. I knew him as a boy. She raised him and his 2 sisters alone and did not have money for secondary education. I wish all stories turn out like this but unfortunately we do know reality - not all people are innovative. Some have to go to vocational school to learn how to do a job in order to become employable. To be an entrepeneur one needs a skill (self-taught or acquired during secondary education) to provide something of value one can sell.
  7. 2 points
    JW Insider

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    Definitely not dropouts...... one can keep learning without going to university. One can get very talented people who have NO degree.......in science or art but still attain an extremely high level of competency. Did I mention that my youngest son was accepted to each and every Ivy League university in the United States? Just wanted the excuse to mention that again if I didn't state it before. 😊 His final choices were between MIT, CalTech, Harvard, and he chose Harvard because he also writes/performs music and studies history. He graduated with his degree in theoretical/engineering physics (with a minor in music) and was almost immediately contacted by another Ivy League university graduate who has worked at each Bethel site in upstate NY. Through this particular circumstance I have come to learn of several more university graduates working at NY Bethels. The engineers and environmental specialists, even IT specialists at various Bethels, have become more and more "infested" with Ivy League graduates. These are not always full-time positions, but are persons added to the team. At one time they were given only a consultant role, or advisory role, and often ignored, but the Society has learned through very expensive mistakes, to give them leadership roles in these teams. When I was at Bethel in Brooklyn many years ago, a flailing Computer/IT department was just starting up and a lot of expensive mistakes were being made when a couple of brothers with a lot of "spiritual" seniority were chosen to lead the new department. After about a half-million dollars worth of mistakes, they started to ditch the "decision by seniority" paradigm and gave more decisions to a brother who had a high position at IBM, but who was also arrogant to a fault. And they brought in a new bunch of fresh college graduated kids from around the country. One was a sister that my brother knew from Missouri, and one was a brother I had known from Missouri. (A brother who had not pioneered or even been very active.) We had a four person room at Bethel and he became one of the four roommates. My roommate would commiserate with the sister and another member of the Computer department about the ridiculous arguments and decisions of the day. As it turned out, Arauna, you were right. A lot more practical progress was being made from a small team of computer hobbyists from up at the Wallkill Watchtower Farm in upstate NY. My roommate and the sister thought this was hilarious because there was a lot of prejudice against the "farm boys" even though the difference between who got assigned to the farm and who got assigned to Brooklyn was often just as random as a name in a hat. The "untrained" farm boys actually finished a home-made computer that started to computerize typesetting flawlessly through the APS5. This was a huge breakthrough project that Brooklyn had already wasted half-a-million on.
  8. 1 point
    I agree. And you even not need to be obsessed or zeal with/for something, but still doing wrong thing. That is what i have in mind. But also is important where you are in that moment (spiritual and literal place). If such person is observed from/by people who not belong to same ideology it could be viewed as "fanatic" (zealous or obsessed, it would not be too much difference) Even inside own group, various levels of "spirituality" that individuals (and others around) have and shows, that individuals see as desirable and good, as the qualities that people around and god himself expecting of us to have them, can be in range from, what fellow brotherhood consider as, normal, role model zeal to something what can be very confusing and doubtful.
  9. 1 point
    True. We do however have a positive and negative connotation. In the case of someone obsessed with criticizing an organization made up of mostly good people, doing good things, that is a negative connotation of the word obsession. On the other hand, being "obsessed" about doing JHVH's will would have a positive connotation. In general though obsession seems more negative that positive, therefor zeal in this case would be a better choice in my opinion. Of course you can also be zealous for the wrong thing (apostle Paul when he was Saul). And then there is the perfume 😀 Yes, all people are sinners and can do horrible things. We all know that. His obsession is unreasonable because he isn't going to change people is he? Plus half the things he says are false, and badly argued. As an example, he puts down the Witnesses for not joining the rest of the world in support of LGBT groups, clearly something condemned by God. Then again he doesn't care what God thinks, as he is a self proclaimed atheist....
  10. 1 point
    The thing about the man whose last name is a type of a tree, both he and his wife suffered abuse by parents who were JWs. And he also knew of an incident of abuse in his congregation. I think you must agree that he isn’t mentally diseased, but mentally and emotionally scarred...for the entire rest of his life he will lead on this earth. Those who inflict abuse, are the mentally diseased ones.
  11. 1 point
    TrueTomHarley

    Singing Governing Body Members

    When I first experienced this, it was at a Regional Convention. It made a huge impact. Looking down at the songbook, you see only the songbook. Looking at the monitor—in this case it was the overhead scoreboard—you also see thousands of fellow Christians singing along with you. It adds a strengthening uniting feature.
  12. 1 point
  13. 1 point
    Dear Arauna, I don't know how other people feels, but will say for my self. I can't give to you and to other here any prophecy because of several reasons: 1) i am not true prophet 2) i am not false prophet 3) i am not inspired 4) i am not mentally ill :)))))) ... well yes you are right, i can only comment or criticize or give critical thinking on WT Society interpretations of prophesies and their attempt to explain when and how particular prophesy taking fulfillment....in other words WT "prophecy". ... criticizing JW timeline ...... jehovah is (NOT) the perfect timekeeper we expect him to be. .... I will describe how i explain this wording, you can correct me if you think otherwise. We have Bible and some verses that we think is a prophecy. We (in this case JW organization and WT Society) made, making and changing several versions of the explanation/interpretations as something that it is, must be, have to be, it can't be something else ...etc. And as result of big trust to this (human) interpretations, as they are been "empowered" by God, members thinking about JHVH as "perfect timekeeper" of His prophecy, but in fact of this "WT prophecy". And at the end, as normal expectation is this: JW's living in delusion of hope aka expectation how it is normal to have particular expectation from JHVH to be One who will fulfill human expectations as His own goal.
  14. 1 point
    Outta Here

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    Too general a statement and not necessarily true. A personal friend of mine who was a highly talented musician developed Alzheimers. He soon became unable remember any words to songs, then to differentiate chords and how to play instruments. This was soon followed by an aversion to music altogether, although he will communicate in song. There is a difference between skill and talent. Allan Boyle showed me round the IT workshop when I visited Brooklyn in 1980. I have to admit it was rather like visiting a computer graveyard with electronic carcasses all over the place. It must be quite a challenge to apply Acts 6:3 in a modern, technical setting. But, somebody appears to have got something right.
  15. 1 point
    All do, specifically or otherwise, as soon as they speak or write about God.
  16. 1 point
    RECHERCHONS DES PERLES SPIRITUELLES - SEMAINE DU 11 Novembre 2019 - 2 JEAN 1 - JUDE.docx RECHERCHONS DES PERLES SPIRITUELLES - SEMAINE DU 11 Novembre 2019 - 2 JEAN 1 - JUDE.pdf Recherchons des perles spirituelles (8 min) : 2 JEAN 1 - JUDE Jude 4, 12 : Pourquoi les hommes sans respect pour Dieu qui s’étaient glissĂ©s dans l’assemblĂ©e ont-ils Ă©tĂ© comparĂ©s Ă  « des rochers cachĂ©s sous l’eau lors de [...] festins d’amour » ? (it-1 879 ; it-2 805 § 3). verset 4 ‘ « Ce qui m’y a poussĂ©, c’est que certains hommes, qui ont Ă©tĂ© dĂ©signĂ©s il y a longtemps par les Écritures pour ĂȘtre condamnĂ©s, se sont glissĂ©s parmi vous. Ce sont des hommes sans respect pour Dieu, qui prennent la faveur immĂ©ritĂ©e de notre Dieu comme prĂ©texte pour avoir une conduite indigne et effrontĂ©e, et qui trahissent notre seul propriĂ©taire et Seigneur, JĂ©sus Christ. » verset 12 « Ceux-lĂ  sont des rochers cachĂ©s sous l’eau lors de vos festins d’amour, lorsqu’ils mangent avec vous ; des bergers qui se nourrissent eux-mĂȘmes sans crainte ; des nuages sans eau emportĂ©s ici et lĂ  par le vent ; des arbres sans fruits Ă  la fin de l’automne, qui sont morts deux fois et ont Ă©tĂ© dĂ©racinĂ©s » La Bible ne dĂ©crit pas ces festins d’amour et ne prĂ©cise pas Ă  quelle frĂ©quence ils avaient lieu (Jude 12). Comme ils ne furent ordonnĂ©s ni par le Seigneur JĂ©sus Christ ni par ses apĂŽtres, il est clair qu’il ne faut pas les considĂ©rer comme obligatoires ou permanents. Certains pensent qu’il s’agissait de festins auxquels les chrĂ©tiens riches invitaient leurs coreligionnaires indigents. Tous, ensemble, les orphelins de pĂšre, les veuves, les riches et les moins fortunĂ©s partageaient une table bien garnie dans un esprit fraternel. – it-1 p879 Un autre mot grec, spilas, s’applique sans doute Ă  un rocher ou Ă  un rĂ©cif cachĂ© sous l’eau. Jude s’en sert dans une image pour dĂ©signer des hommes qui s’étaient glissĂ©s dans la congrĂ©gation chrĂ©tienne avec des mobiles malhonnĂȘtes. De mĂȘme que des rochers cachĂ©s Ă©taient dangereux pour les bateaux, de mĂȘme ces hommes constituaient un rĂ©el danger pour les autres membres de la congrĂ©gation. Jude dĂ©clare Ă  leur sujet : “ Ceux-lĂ  sont dans vos festins d’amour les rochers cachĂ©s sous l’eau, tandis qu’ils font bonne chĂšre avec vous. ” — Jude 12. – it-2 p805 §3 Certains de ceux qui pratiquent le dĂ©rĂšglement cherchent Ă  sĂ©duire et Ă  tromper d’autres membres de la congrĂ©gation chrĂ©tienne en soutenant que la faveur immĂ©ritĂ©e de Dieu est grande et qu’il passera sur leurs pĂ©chĂ©s parce qu’il est conscient de leurs imperfections et de la faiblesse de leur chair. Mais Jude, demi-frĂšre de JĂ©sus, qualifia ceux qui raisonnent ainsi d’“ impies qui transforment la faveur immĂ©ritĂ©e de notre Dieu et en font un prĂ©texte pour se livrer au dĂ©rĂšglement, et qui trahissent notre seul PropriĂ©taire et Seigneur, JĂ©sus Christ ”. (Jude 4.) Il ne sert Ă  rien que ces hommes se rĂ©clament du christianisme. Leur service ne peut ĂȘtre agrĂ©Ă© de Dieu, pensĂ©e qu’un sage Ă©crivain d’IsraĂ«l formula ainsi : “ Le sacrifice des mĂ©chants est chose dĂ©testable. Combien plus lorsqu’on l’apporte avec une conduite dĂ©rĂ©glĂ©e Pr 21:27. Ils manifestent souvent un esprit d’indĂ©pendance et de rĂ©bellion qui les empĂȘche de reconnaĂźtre que JĂ©hovah dirige son organisation. it-1 p622 La faveur immĂ©ritĂ©e de JĂ©hovah nous procure de nombreux bienfaits, mais nous ne devons pas avoir la prĂ©somption de penser qu’il accepte n’importe quelle conduite. Certains premiers chrĂ©tiens cherchaient Ă  « transforme[r] la faveur immĂ©ritĂ©e de [...] Dieu » en « prĂ©texte pour se livrer au dĂ©rĂšglement » (Jude 4). Ces chrĂ©tiens infidĂšles pensaient apparemment qu’ils pouvaient pĂ©cher et ensuite compter sur JĂ©hovah pour leur pardonner. Pire, ils essayaient d’entraĂźner leurs frĂšres dans leur conduite mĂ©prisante. Tout en frĂ©quentant la congrĂ©gation, ces individus exerçaient une influence corruptrice. Aujourd’hui encore, celui qui agit ainsi a « outragĂ© avec mĂ©pris l’esprit de la faveur immĂ©ritĂ©e » Satan fait croire Ă  certains chrĂ©tiens qu’ils peuvent prĂ©sumer de la misĂ©ricorde de Dieu et commettre des pĂ©chĂ©s impunĂ©ment. Mais si JĂ©hovah est dĂ©sireux de pardonner aux pĂ©cheurs repentants, il attend toutefois de nous que nous livrions un dur combat contre nos tendances pĂ©cheresses – TG2016/7 p25 §16,17 En Jude 12, les personnes immorales qui s’introduisent dans l’assemblĂ©e sont comparĂ©es Ă  des arbres d’automne sans fruits, morts deux fois. S’il est dit d’eux qu’ils sont “ morts deux fois ”, c’est peut-ĂȘtre pour souligner qu’ils sont bel et bien morts. Cela peut aussi vouloir dire qu’ils sont morts sous deux rapports : 1) ils sont stĂ©riles, autrement dit ne portent pas de fruits et 2) ils sont littĂ©ralement morts et n’ont aucune vitalitĂ©. Ceux qui se rĂ©clament du christianisme, mais qui pratiquent l’immoralitĂ©, se livrant Ă  la corruption et contaminant l’assemblĂ©e, sont comparĂ©s dans leur abandon avide aux dĂ©sirs charnels Ă  des nuages sans eau poussĂ©s par les vents - it-1 p155 Les apostats qui feignent d’aimer sont aussi dangereux pour notre foi que les rochers cachĂ©s sous l’eau le sont pour les bateaux ou les nageurs. Les faux enseignants peuvent paraĂźtre gĂ©nĂ©reux mais, sur le plan spirituel, ils sont aussi vides que des nuages sans eau. Ils sont sans fruits, Ă  l’instar des arbres morts Ă  la fin de l’automne. Ils sont vouĂ©s Ă  la destruction, comme le sont les arbres dĂ©racinĂ©s. La sagesse nous dicte de fuir les apostats – TG2008 15/12 p29 Comme un rocher dĂ©chiquetĂ© qui se cache juste sous la surface d’eaux calmes, L’individu hypocrite peut causer le naufrage spirituel de ceux qui sont sans mĂ©fiance. Une telle personne fait peut-ĂȘtre miroiter de grands moments de rafraĂźchissement spirituel, mais il est en rĂ©alitĂ© un ‘ nuage sans eau ’ qui n’a rien Ă  offrir. Comme un arbre sans fruits, le trompeur ne produit aucun des fruits du christianisme. Incontestablement, nous devons nous en mĂ©fier, mais sans soupçonner tout le monde. – TG2001 15/11 p22 Jude 14, 15 : Pourquoi HĂ©noch a-t-il parlĂ© au passĂ© d’un Ă©vĂšnement futur et quelle est la rĂ©alisation de cette prophĂ©tie ? wp17.1 12 § 1, 3 « Oui, HĂ©noch, le septiĂšme depuis Adam, a lui aussi prophĂ©tisĂ© Ă  leur sujet, quand il a dit : « Voici que JĂ©hovah est venu avec ses saintes myriades, 15 pour prononcer un jugement contre tous, et pour dĂ©clarer coupables toutes les personnes sans respect pour Dieu Ă  propos de toutes leurs actions injustes qu’elles ont commises d’une maniĂšre injuste, et Ă  propos de toutes les choses scandaleuses que des pĂ©cheurs sans respect pour Dieu ont profĂ©rĂ©es contre lui. » Qu’a prophĂ©tisĂ© HĂ©noch ? Jude rapporte : « Voyez ! JĂ©hovah est venu avec ses saintes myriades, pour exĂ©cuter le jugement contre tous, et pour dĂ©clarer coupables tous les impies Ă  propos de toutes leurs actions impies qu’ils ont commises d’une maniĂšre impie, et Ă  propos de toutes les choses scandaleuses que des pĂ©cheurs impies ont profĂ©rĂ©es contre lui » (Jude 14, 15). La premiĂšre chose que vous pouvez remarquer, c’est que HĂ©noch parle au passĂ©, comme si Dieu avait dĂ©jĂ  fait ce que la prophĂ©tie annonce. C’est un modĂšle que de nombreuses prophĂ©ties ont ensuite suivi : le prophĂšte parle d’une chose dont la rĂ©alisation est si certaine qu’elle est prĂ©sentĂ©e comme si elle avait dĂ©jĂ  eu lieu ! (IsaĂŻe 46:10). - wp17 1 La foi de HĂ©noch peut nous inciter Ă  nous demander si nous voyons le monde dans lequel nous vivons comme Dieu le voit. Le jugement que HĂ©noch a proclamĂ© avec hardiesse est encore valable aujourd’hui ; il s’applique Ă  notre monde tout comme il s’appliquait Ă  celui de HĂ©noch. ConformĂ©ment Ă  la dĂ©claration de HĂ©noch, aux jours de NoĂ©, JĂ©hovah a amenĂ© le DĂ©luge sur un monde impie. Mais cette destruction Ă©tablit un modĂšle pour une destruction plus grande qui est encore Ă  venir (Matthieu 24:38, 39 ; 2 Pierre 2:4-6). Aujourd’hui, comme Ă  l’époque, JĂ©hovah se tient prĂȘt avec ses saintes myriades pour exĂ©cuter un jugement juste contre un monde impie. Chacun de nous doit prendre Ă  cƓur l’avertissement de HĂ©noch et l’annoncer Ă  d’autres. Notre famille et nos amis s’éloigneront peut-ĂȘtre de nous. Par moments, nous nous sentirons peut-ĂȘtre seuls. Mais JĂ©hovah n’a pas abandonnĂ© HĂ©noch, et aujourd’hui, il n’abandonnera pas ses fidĂšles serviteurs ! – wp17 3 HĂ©noch avait annoncĂ© une Ă©poque oĂč JĂ©hovah jugerait tous les impies et leurs actes d’impiĂ©tĂ©. On notera que HĂ©noch s’exprimait au passĂ©, car les jugements de Dieu Ă©taient irrĂ©vocables, de sorte que l’on pouvait considĂ©rer qu’ils avaient dĂ©jĂ  eu lieu. Les humains se sont peut-ĂȘtre moquĂ©s de HĂ©noch, comme plus tard de NoĂ©, mais tous ces moqueurs ont bel et bien pĂ©ri lors du dĂ©luge. Ces paroles trouveront leur accomplissement final Ă  ArmaguĂ©don. Cela dit, il est fort probable que, du temps de HĂ©noch, de nombreux “ pĂ©cheurs impies ” se sont irritĂ©s de sa prophĂ©tie. JĂ©hovah a vraiment fait preuve d’amour en mettant son prophĂšte hors de leur portĂ©e. – TG1998 1/6 Qu’est-ce que la lecture biblique de cette semaine t’a appris sur JĂ©hovah ? Certains prĂ©tendus chrĂ©tiens du 1er siĂšcle niaient que JĂ©sus soit venu dans la chair (2 Jean 7-11). Parce qu’ils avaient adoptĂ© ce point de vue erronĂ©, quelques-uns ont rejetĂ© la vĂ©ritĂ© au sujet de JĂ©sus, le Messie. L’apĂŽtre Jean a qualifiĂ© d’antichrists ceux qui ne croyaient pas que JĂ©sus Ă©tait venu dans la chair. Ils pouvaient bien croire en Dieu, aux Écritures hĂ©braĂŻques, accepter JĂ©sus comme le Fils de Dieu, etc. Mais ils n’étaient pas d’accord sur le fait que JĂ©sus Ă©tait rĂ©ellement venu dans la chair: c’est pourquoi ils ont Ă©tĂ© appelĂ©s l’“antichrist”. Jean ajoute Ă  propos de ceux qui avaient ce genre d’opinions diffĂ©rentes: “Si quelqu’un vient Ă  vous sans apporter cet enseignement, ne le recevez pas chez vous et ne lui dites pas de salut. Car celui qui lui dit un salut s’associe Ă  ses Ɠuvres mĂ©chantes.” — II Jean 7. Marcher par l’esprit saint nous empĂȘchera de tomber dans une telle apostasie. Ce n’est qu’en restant spirituellement Ă©veillĂ©s que nous conserverons la faveur immĂ©ritĂ©e de JĂ©hovah et que nous “ continuerons Ă  marcher dans la vĂ©ritĂ© ”. (3 Jean 3, 4.) Soyons donc dĂ©terminĂ©s Ă  rejeter toute apostasie, afin de conserver des relations Ă©troites avec notre PĂšre cĂ©leste. – TG2007 15/7 §7 Jude 7 dĂ©clare : “ Sodome et Gomorrhe et les villes d’alentour, aprĂšs qu’elles eurent commis [...] la fornication avec excĂšs et furent allĂ©es aprĂšs la chair pour un usage contre nature, sont placĂ©es devant nous comme un exemple qui est un avertissement. ” Les habitants de Sodome et de Gomorrhe n’ont jamais reçu de lois concernant la moralitĂ© de la part de Dieu ; cependant, comme chaque ĂȘtre humain, ils possĂ©daient une conscience donnĂ©e par Dieu. Par consĂ©quent, Dieu pouvait en toute justice les tenir pour responsables de leurs actes. Pareillement, Dieu tient aujourd’hui les humains pour responsables de leurs actes, qu’ils acceptent sa Parole, la Sainte Bible, ou non – RV2001 8/3 p9 Nous ‘ continuons Ă  glorifier Dieu ’ en marchant dans ses voies droites au lieu d’agir Ă  notre guise. CaĂŻn a commis un meurtre parce qu’il a agi Ă  sa guise et n’a pas Ă©coutĂ© JĂ©hovah qui l’avait averti que le pĂ©chĂ© s’apprĂȘtait Ă  fondre sur lui. Balaam a acceptĂ© de l’argent du roi de Moab, mais il a essayĂ© vainement de maudire IsraĂ«l (Nombres 24:10). Enfin, Dieu a mis Ă  mort le LĂ©vite CorĂ© et d’autres parce qu’ils s’étaient rebellĂ©s contre l’autoritĂ© de MoĂŻse et d’Aaron (Nombres 16:1-3, 31-33). Nous ne voulons certainement pas aller dans le “ chemin de CaĂŻn ” l’assassin, ni nous jeter dans “ l’égarement de Balaam ”, ni pĂ©rir dans “ les propos sĂ©ditieux de CorĂ© ”. (Jude 11) – TG2005 15/11 p30 §18 “ En vous bĂątissant sur votre trĂšs sainte foi, [...] gardez-vous dans l’amour de Dieu. ” — Jude 20, 21. Dans ce passage oĂč il a exhortĂ© les chrĂ©tiens Ă  ‘ se garder dans l’amour de Dieu ’, il a aussi rĂ©vĂ©lĂ© le moyen d’y parvenir : “ En vous bĂątissant sur votre trĂšs sainte foi. ” De quelle façon pouvez-vous vous bĂątir, rendre votre foi plus solide, afin de demeurer dans l’amour de Dieu ? En premier lieu, il vous faut affermir votre foi dans la loi divine. Le meilleur moyen de bĂątir notre foi dans le LĂ©gislateur suprĂȘme et dans la sagesse de ses lois, c’est de mettre en pratique les commandements de Dieu dans notre vie. Egalement, atteindre la maturitĂ©. Un chrĂ©tien mĂ»r est un homme spirituel. Il porte sur les choses le mĂȘme regard que JĂ©hovah. – Livre « Amour de Dieu », p196-205 Jude 20, 21 — Comment pouvons-nous ‘ nous garder dans l’amour de Dieu ’ ? Il y a trois conditions Ă  remplir : 1) nous bĂątir sur notre “ trĂšs sainte foi ”, en Ă©tudiant avec sĂ©rieux la Parole de Dieu et en participant avec zĂšle Ă  l’Ɠuvre de prĂ©dication ; 2) prier “ avec de l’esprit saint ”, ou conformĂ©ment Ă  son influence ; 3) exercer la foi dans ce qui rend la vie Ă©ternelle possible : le sacrifice rĂ©dempteur de JĂ©sus Christ – TG2008 15/12 p29 Quelles autres perles spirituelles as-tu dĂ©couvertes dans la lecture biblique de cette semaine ? Les dĂ©mons sont dangereux, mais nous n’avons pas Ă  ĂȘtre terrifiĂ©s. Leur pouvoir est limitĂ©. Quand ces anges dĂ©sobĂ©issants sont retournĂ©s au ciel, ils n’ont pas pu rĂ©intĂ©grer la famille des anges fidĂšles. Ils ont Ă©tĂ© privĂ©s de toute lumiĂšre spirituelle venant de Dieu, ce qui ne leur laisse que de sombres perspectives pour l’avenir. Ils ont en effet Ă©tĂ© enfermĂ©s dans une condition d’obscuritĂ© spirituelle que la Bible nomme le Tartare (2 Pierre 2:4). JĂ©hovah les a entourĂ©s de “ liens Ă©ternels ” qui les tiennent dans cette obscuritĂ© spirituelle. Qui plus est, ils sont Ă  prĂ©sent dans l’incapacitĂ© de se matĂ©rialiser. — Jude 6. TG2006 15/1 p7 Au 1er siĂšcle, certains se sont dressĂ©s contre ceux qui avaient Ă©tĂ© Ă©tablis Ă  la tĂȘte de la congrĂ©gation. Ce faisant, ils ‘ repoussaient la seigneurie ’. (Jude 8.) Ils n’étaient sans doute pas satisfaits de ce qu’on leur avait confiĂ© et cherchaient Ă  monter les autres contre des frĂšres qui assumaient pourtant consciencieusement leurs fonctions thĂ©ocratiques – TG2012 15/10 p13 §6 Jude a rapportĂ© un Ă©pisode de l’existence prĂ©humaine de JĂ©sus qui montre son humilitĂ© (Jude 9). L’archange Michel, c’est-Ă -dire JĂ©sus, « eut un diffĂ©rend avec le Diable » et « discutait » avec lui. Le dĂ©bat tournait autour du « corps de MoĂŻse ». Souvenons-nous qu’aprĂšs la mort de MoĂŻse, JĂ©hovah a enterrĂ© son corps dans un lieu inconnu (Deut. 34:5, 6). Peut-ĂȘtre le Diable voulait-il l’utiliser comme relique pour instaurer un culte idolĂątrique. Quoi qu’il en soit, Michel a pris une position courageuse. Cependant, reconnaissant qu’il ne lui appartenait pas de porter un jugement, le Chef des anges a prĂ©fĂ©rĂ© porter l’affaire devant le Juge suprĂȘme, JĂ©hovah. Ainsi, mĂȘme provoquĂ© par le Diable, Michel a refusĂ© d’abuser de son autoritĂ©. Quelle humilitĂ© ! – TG2015 15/2 p6 §6 Nous ne devons rien enlever Ă  la Parole de Dieu, car l’ensemble des enseignements chrĂ©tiens qu’elle renferme constitue “ la vĂ©ritĂ© ”, ou encore “ la vĂ©ritĂ© de la bonne nouvelle ”. Pour ĂȘtre sauvĂ©, il est capital de ‘ marcher ’ dans cette vĂ©ritĂ©, c’est-Ă -dire d’y adhĂ©rer. 2 Jean 4 Cette vĂ©ritĂ© est la somme des enseignements chrĂ©tiens contenus dans la Bible Le christianisme Ă©tant “ la voie de la vĂ©ritĂ© ”, en aidant les autres Ă  en servir la cause, nous devenons “ des compagnons de travail dans la vĂ©ritĂ© ”.. La Bible est la seule et unique source de vĂ©ritĂ© – TG1996 15/5 §18 « Beaucoup de trompeurs sont sortis dans le monde, des gens qui ne confessent pas JĂ©sus Christ comme venant dans la chair. VoilĂ  le trompeur et l’antichrist » (2 Jean 7). Jean avait compris que l’antichrist englobe tous ceux qui propagent dĂ©libĂ©rĂ©ment des mensonges religieux sur JĂ©sus Christ et ses enseignements. Au 1er siĂšcle, des faux prophĂštes et des apostats Ă©taient dĂ©jĂ  actifs et s’efforçaient d’affaiblir la congrĂ©gation chrĂ©tienne. Qu’en est-il de nos jours ? Les individus et les organisations qui constituent l’antichrist s’opposent toujours au Christ et Ă  ses enseignements. Ils propagent volontairement des mensonges et des idĂ©es trompeuses dans le but de rendre obscures l’identitĂ© du PĂšre, JĂ©hovah, et celle de son Fils, JĂ©sus Christ. Nous avons de bonnes raisons de nous mĂ©fier de ces mensonges religieux. – TG2015 1/6 p14 AprĂšs la mort des apĂŽtres, de faux enseignants ont fait entrer dans l’assemblĂ©e des idĂ©es fausses et des fĂȘtes et des coutumes paĂŻennes. Ils ont mĂȘme donnĂ© un nouveau nom Ă  des fĂȘtes paĂŻennes pour donner l’impression qu’elles Ă©taient chrĂ©tiennes. 2 Jean 6, 7. Beaucoup de ces fĂȘtes sont toujours populaires aujourd’hui. Et elles favorisent de fausses croyances, et mĂȘme le spiritisme. Aujourd’hui, partout dans le monde, les fĂȘtes ont une grande importance dans la vie des gens. LVS ch13 Quand l’hospitalitĂ© n’est pas souhaitable. La Bible enjoint aux chrĂ©tiens de ne pas offrir l’hospitalitĂ© Ă  certaines personnes. “ Tout homme qui va de l’avant et ne demeure pas dans l’enseignement du Christ n’a pas Dieu. [...] Si quelqu’un vient vers vous et n’apporte pas cet enseignement, ne le recevez jamais chez vous et ne lui adressez pas non plus de salutation. Car celui qui lui adresse une salutation participe Ă  ses Ɠuvres mauvaises. ” (2Jn 9-11). Garder une telle personne chez soi ou fraterniser avec elle est spirituellement dangereux pour soi et, en quelque sorte, excuse la conduite de la personne. Cela peut Ă©garer d’autres chrĂ©tiens et jeter l’opprobre sur l’assemblĂ©e. Les chrĂ©tiens ne devraient pas recevoir chez eux des enseignants apostats, ni mĂȘme leur adresser de salutation – it-1 HospitalitĂ©
  17. 1 point
    Arauna

    Singing Governing Body Members

    Song books outdated. We have it on electronic screen at meetings.
  18. 1 point
    Arauna

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    Agreed. No shame to be working and providing for yourself. The person is taking responsibility as best he can. All work is honourable. There is now a new phenomena: Children who are addicted to internet and games. They still live with parents at age 34, refuse to work or look at a girl etc. No other interest in life than waste away in matrix style fantasy. Met a woman in field service with this problem.
  19. 1 point
    TrueTomHarley

    Permission to get baptized

    no mention of dedicating oneself to an organization either. I believe it goes without saying. “And let us consider one another so as to incite to love and fine works, not forsaking our meeting together, as some have the custom.” However, I have come around to seeing your point. I will tell Bethel to award diplomas to elders upon being appointed. They obviously are the ones qualified to do it. Not only do they specialize in advanced and applied Bible study for 150 years, but they have the added qualification of showing that they can DO something with it, something that is often lacking in more traditional schools of higher learning. What is a diploma? Essentially, is it anything more than a paper testifying that you have successfully answered someone’s 80 questions? So why should you ask the questions? What in the world do you have to offer? No. They qualify to ask the questions. And award the diplomas, should they ever choose to.
  20. 1 point
  21. 1 point
    Equivocation

    2019 Protests

    @admin It's getting crazy out there now. And in the world of today's politics, people will go even crazier when the "orange man bad" crowd starts to riot. 😬 Speaking about Proresting, there's the United Kingdom, Haiti, and I think Chile, and the whole climate change thing too.
  22. 1 point
    TrueTomHarley

    Permission to get baptized

    This requirement is in harmony with a suggestion from Ronald J Sider in his book, “The Scandal of the Evangelical Concience” in which he explores the question: “Why are Christians living just like the rest of the world?” Their conduct is so shocking that it should “drive us to our knees in repentance,” he says. The specific remedy that he offered was: “Make it harder to join.” So he does not agree that just saying you have a personal relationship with Christ is enough. This is just one of four proposed remedies he offered. As it turns out, Jehovah’s Witnesses employ them all. And yes, they do go a long way in cleaning up the mess of words not matching deeds that afflicts the evangelical world. I wrote about it here:
      Hello guest!
  23. 0 points
    True,up to a point. I heard the same thing you posted from the convention and took it to mean that we no longer think of the millions of persons who have left because of no longer believing as apostates. The speaker said that we do not include those who "drift away" as apostates. Only those who deliberately push away with a bitter, haughty, defiant attitude. There are several of those persons, but at least it effectively cuts down on the number of exJW apostates by as many as, who knows, two million? It's a tautology, but it sounded like we should only consider the mentally diseased apostates as mentally diseased. Those we could safely judge as part of Satan's seed. Personally, I can't judge anyone I know that harshly, but I'm sure they exist. And I suspect a couple of people might be in that category. And not always because they are so obvious, but sometimes because of how crafty they are.




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