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Showing content with the highest reputation on 12/02/2019 in all areas

  1. It would be wrong of me to tell you what i really think of you, but I'll just say you have a completely warped sense of reality. VICITMS of child sexual abuse were THROWN OUT OF THE JW ORG and then shunned. You are totally brainwashed by your GB and it's ORG. Can you honestly give me a quantity / number, of ex-JWs that you had known personally, that left the JW Org, and can you give proof of them going on to take drugs, immoral sex, smoking et al ? But then you'd probably go on to tell lies just as JW's do. By what you have written above, it is you that is 'spreadin
    2 points
  2. Anna

    Leo K. Greenlees

    I know what you're saying, it's just that a hand on the inner thigh or rear end, if done deliberately, is usually just the beginning, and is like a test leading to other stages. Maybe the degree of molestation should be categorized in stages? Stage one: hand on inner thigh and buttocks, stage two: ........and so on. The thing is, if the molester gets away with stage one (no one reports it, or the victim doesn't stop it) then you know for sure it will lead to stage two, and if that's not reported to stage three etc. So in my opinion, at least, it doesn't matter at what stage the molester g
    2 points
  3. YES! That's it! It's so clear to me now!
    2 points
  4. What is the difference between being dogmatic and critical argument? Is it philosophy or belief in polarization? Do I believe witnesses are dogmatic? Compared to, which religious organization. Can we say Jesus was dogmatic? Does anyone have an answer about Jesus and the apostles?
    2 points
  5. Because that kind of gossip travels fast! Yes, very dogmatic. Obviously this was when they "didn't succeed" in not being dogmatic. I didn't say they were never dogmatic.
    2 points
  6. Anna said: It's gross deception. Why? Because it deliberately gives a completely false picture of what the Bible Students said. That's like saying the Nazi's tried hard not to be dogmatic about Nazism, but didn't always succeed. Tell me if the statements quoted below about 1918 and 1920 are dogmatic or not. The Finished Mystery, 1917, pages 62, 64, said with great authority: << The data presented in comments on Rev. 1:1... prove that the Spring of 1918 will bring upon Christendom a spasm of anguish greater even than that experienced in the Fall of 1914.
    2 points
  7. Matthew9969

    Jehovah hates turkey

    Got another reminder from my jw mom that Jehovah hates thanksgiving. I haven't hosted a thanksgiving dinner in over 12 years, so this year I wanted to relax at home and cook my own turkey this year, and was further reminded how much Jehovah hates turkey because it's a grave sin to cook turkey on a certain day, so much so that Jehovah is willing to kill billions of people if they cook a turkey and eat it. But thanksgiving is over, now jw's can feel free to enjoy their post thanksgiving dinner as thousands of jw's will be cooking turkey today and secretly enjoying their own thanksgiving holiday.
    1 point
  8. Yes. Let's draw a huge amount of attention to that which we don't want you to pay attention to. And let's do it in the most creepy, culty, and weird way as possible, because we can't take criticism and we just don't know how to handle it. Like the old saying goes... If your beliefs can't stand up to scrutiny, then scrutiny isn't the problem. This barricade makes it crystal clear, loud and clear, that their beliefs can't stand up to scrutiny. Imagine doing this same thing to them at their cart witnessing and how they would feel? They would call us inspired by the devil, mentally
    1 point
  9. Arauna

    Creationism

    I am not a creationist...... I do not believe the creation of animals and people took only 24 hours. This is what creationists believe. I do believe that jehovah created the earth and the physical universe and the age of the rocks on earth gives one an idea of the age of the earth. Genesis 1: 1 and 2 However, the earth is not as old as the estimates given by some evolutionists. There are many problems with carbon 14 dating as well as the other methods. Uranium breaks down into lead reasonably fast.... and there is still uranium left on the earth..... so if the earth is as old as they
    1 point
  10. It might sound mealy mouthed, but it's hardly deception. They tried hard not to be dogmatic, but they didn’t always succeed. Sometimes they did well and were not dogmatic, and sometimes they didn’t do well, and were dogmatic. I believe they endeavored to avoid being dogmatic. But obviously didn't always succeed.
    1 point
  11. Anna

    Leo K. Greenlees

    The reason why I said what I did in that post was to highlight that "a little molestation" leads to "big molestation" unless the "little molestation" is stopped. What happened to me was nothing really. It did not traumatize me, and I was on good terms with my uncle. I doubt I would ever think of bringing something like that to the police, and my mum obviously didn't think it warranted it either. And to let you know, my mum was a tigress when it came to protecting me. Then in my reply to you I said: I mentioned that elsewhere too. No one thinks child sexual molestation is ok. And no one
    1 point
  12. 4Jah2me

    Leo K. Greenlees

    Quote @Anna Nor do I think that's the attitude of JW leaders. So what exactly is the attitude of the GB and it's lawyers for not handing over the complete 20 plus years of Database concerning Child Sexual Abuse accusations ? After all shouldn't they 'obey God as ruler rather than men' and wouldn't God want His name cleared ? Wouldn't God want justice for the victims? So it would not matter about what laws of men were in place. What is the attitude of the Australian Bethel brothers for not apologising to victims ? The Australian government apologised and people of different relig
    1 point
  13. 4Jah2me

    Leo K. Greenlees

    @b4ucuhear Quote " I agree with you on that, since I know a number of brothers who have been disciplined for child molestation in various congregations. All of them have been faithful brothers for many years now without incident. But a potential problem with that type of weakness is the rate of recidivism that can accompany that type of behaviour. Naturally, there are some very thorny legal issues associated with appointing a person with such a history and whether he would even potentially offend again." I wonder if those brothers are in the 20 year long DATABASE that the GB are refus
    1 point
  14. AlanF

    Leo K. Greenlees

    Look beneath the surface, Anna. Your last post was excellent and well describes the attitude shown by TTH and so many elders, including and especially the Governing Body. "We abhor child molestation! But not as much as we abhor public exposure of anything that makes us look bad."
    1 point
  15. It can't get any clearer: "LIsten to Jehovah's voice!" is a direct claim to inspiration by the Governing Body.
    1 point
  16. :)))) I like this description. Can we make agreement how Truth is not Dogmatic. Because Dogmatism of any sort has no chance to be Truthful at all. If we have religious men (GB in this conversation) who giving direction to members we learned this from them: They decide to say how they are not inspired. They explained how because that particular reason (not been inspired) they err in doctrines and teachings and instructions. How sounds this to you? It sounds very nice. These are definitions that no one would named as Dogmatic. You agree? I also agree. But what is realit
    1 point
  17. AlanF

    Leo K. Greenlees

    It's exactly the attitude TTH displays here -- "Oh, molestation is no big deal!" -- that has gotten JW leaders in deep doo doo, and is the source of the extreme disgust about them shown by so many people.
    1 point
  18. This year in our part of the world storms impacted travelers both to AND fro Thanksgiving weekend. In service, whenever I saw cars in the driveway, I would include mention of this, with encouragement to stay safe, delay travel if need be, etc. There is something nice about not being locked into holiday routine so that if you have something planned and the weather is rotten, you can say: “Forget it! Let’s move it back a month.”
    1 point
  19. Arauna

    Jehovah hates turkey

    I love mince pies, turkey and fruit cakes - the real rich ones. Wait a few days after the world has celebrated their pagan festivities and then go down to the shop....... get them at a much reduced price and put them in the freezer........ then have a feast afterward..... whenever you like. No need to feel deprived ..... heh?
    1 point
  20. That always occurs when writers have no other skills and need to eat and sleep warm.
    1 point
  21. AlanF

    Creationism

    God temporarily gave them permission to fly.
    1 point
  22. I will have to ask my new Android v. 12.6 (as seen on TV) RONCO DOGMATIC. Cereally though .... I suppose the difference is if the arguments are based on verifiable reality, or hopes and dreams, masquerading as facts.
    1 point
  23. I thought I already gave you an answer to that, that of course God knew, and therefor Greenlees couldn't have been appointed by God using holy spirit. Claiming one thing and actually doing it are different. And we have already established God is not deceived. Once again, by that reasoning the Pope has been appointed by God. If the Pope qualifies by doing God's will according to the Bible, seen and unseen by human eyes, then yes.
    1 point
  24. Kind of like "he endeavored to avoid being dead". But he didn't always succeed. You are what you are until you're not. I don't think so, more like "some people just can't help themselves"
    1 point
  25. Yes, JWs exercising Orwellian crimestop do get bored with topics that clobber their beliefs. My ex-wife did the same thing. As for this discovery, I saw the same show but was not entirely convinced that they had the dating right. Recent discoveries in northwest Africa strongly indicate the presence of Homo sapiens 300,000 years ago, and it is well known that today's Sahara desert has alternated between wet and dry periods for several million years. Archaeological discoveries in Egypt, Libya, etc. clearly show modern human habitation from more than 50,000 years ago. So who knows how the Em
    1 point
  26. Kind of like "he endeavored to avoid being dead". But he didn't always succeed. You are what you are until you're not.
    1 point
  27. Sorta like taking a handful of caffeine tablets so you don't sleep through the public talk?
    1 point
  28. I have some time today ... so i’m moving a few posts not related to the title of the topic
    1 point
  29. @James Thomas Rook Jr. is such a wuss. We all know it. Given how, at the drop of a pin, he lauds Trump to the high heavens, and given how Alan is unambiguous in denouncing that luminary, @Anna and I thought we had front row seats for the battle of the century! They are both pugnacious. Neither knows the meaning of holding back in the slightest detail. How could we go wrong? We sold tickets to the event. We lined up vendors. We had programs printed. And what happens? A LOVEFEST! “You have never disappointed me, James,” Alan coos. It has cost us serious money in refunds—and I
    1 point
  30. I CAN explain it all ... I have been watching, and studying for more than 50 years. I try NOT to think like, or be, a professional child. I do NOT think I have enough "spirit" to judge anyone .... in the sense of somehow punishing them. My only judgement of "them" is to avoid and ignore "them" ... I do enjoy the option of being able to enforce my preferences, if necessary. ...which most people might consider a blessing.
    1 point
  31. Since most people are shunned for unrepentant immorality - I think you are missing the point. Those few who leave for other reasons often end up in "relationships " or some other habits like drug abuse, smoking etc. Many, who are totally unrepentant end up opposing JWs in very deceitful ways, spreading false info about us.
    1 point
  32. Anna said: The Society made direct statements as well as more subtle suggestions. Take a gander: << How thrilling that must have been for Paul and Barnabas-sailing to their first foreign assignment! The apostle Paul was spearheading the Christian missionary activity. He was also laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our century. >> January 1, 1989 Watchtower, p. 12 Note that "in our century" was changed to "in our day" in the bound volume and in the CDROM Library. Note that when the following statements were made, the Society was teaching
    1 point
  33. I am still of the opinion that when translating from ENGLISH, to another language, a person MUST be a fluent EXPERT at both languages, and have lived in areas where both are spoken extensively, and also have a DEEP knowledge of the history and culture of both places, AND have a potload of plain old common sense .... which is not all that common. I suspect that this is true in all other language translations. We have Bible translations in over a thousand languages (...or is it just some Bible literature?) ... but how good are those translations? The Polish people fought the Nazi
    1 point
  34. @Arauna you must really have OCD about sex. Quote " The signs read: "love does not shun". True, the liove of this world with its "practices" of fornication, LGBT does not shun. " The sign is about emotional family love, nothing to do with immorality. Reminds me of those on here taking about 'tight pants tony'... You JW's seem to have relate everything to sex or to this rotten world that belongs to the devil.
    1 point
  35. My question would be then: Can we count our time spent in trying to get Siri, and Alexa, for that matter, and any other voice assistant out there, to give correct answers to Bible Questions? (I know only 1 peson can count the Return Visit and Bible Study). P.S. I discontinued the study with my Tom Tom! It was just unproductive. It is not spiritually minded. But I am getting somewhere with my telephone anwering machine!
    1 point
  36. JW people often emphasize how old Israelite's were all educated and could read and write and nations around them are less educated. Question. What levels of education have existed at that time in the nation of Israel. Just to know read and write? Or, what was equivalent for education, in their time, we called today high school and university? Did elders of Israel congregation teaching young people /male and female/ not to educate self more in various knowledge's, that is not only spiritual aka religious? Did they talking to people; Israel Nation and State and Country is just temporary h
    1 point
  37. ON COMPETENT ADVICE: it is up to EVERY INDIVIDUAL Brother and Sister to review in their own mind how COMPETENT this advice was .... because it has not changed ... Taking sound, reality based advice will, barring chance and unforeseen circumstances, make your life better, happier, EASIER, and more fulfilling. Most of the REAL PROBLEMS I have had in my life have been caused by being poor, and constantly STRUGGLING to keep gainfully employed. Gainfully employed in THIS day and age is not the same as in the time of John the Baptist, where you could dress in rags, live in a hole in t
    1 point
  38. During 1994, in my first-ever sit-down discussion on theocratic issues with one of Jehovah's Witnesses (JW), Albert Schroeder, of the Watchtower Society Governing Body, put me to school with the Christian Gospel of Saint John, chapter 6, verse 44, to wit: "... No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day....' (kjv) Albert Schroeder said to me: "...go home and ...study this verse..." And so,... the most unlikely person - me - is now a Disciple of Christ, a Bible student, one of Jehovah's Witnesses in vindication of
    1 point
  39. b4ucuhear

    Leo K. Greenlees

    "But I never heard any facts for sure about the molestation charges, although it was a well-known rumor." This brings to mind an interchange you and I had last year regarding information that may come out in mid 2016. It seemed from your response that you were leaning toward the idea of some potential homosexual encounter. The person I had In mind in my statement was in fact Leo Greenlees. I of course, knew about the "purported" charges of child molestation, but more recently a person who had been a well-known elder died, leaving an envelope stating it should not be opened until after h
    1 point
  40. JW Insider

    Leo K. Greenlees

    Brother Greenlees and Brother Chitty are not mentioned in the Proclaimer's book. Interesting that Percy Chapman (included in the picture above) is still mentioned now and then, often in the same context with Brother Greenlees. He was more "openly homosexual" to the dismay of Brother Knorr who continued to work with him anyway. I never knew that Brother Ewart Chitty was homosexual and assumed it was a rumor although I was told it was a fact by several. People also told me that Brother Greenlees was homosexual. In his case, there was good reason to believe them. But I never heard any facts for s
    1 point
  41. 4Jah2me

    Jehovah hates turkey

    On topic. I have honestly known JW's that will not have a proper cooked dinned on Christmas day, as it looks like a Christmas dinner. 'For fear of stumbling others'. They just have a salad or soup or some other small meal. I remember when working with some brothers years ago (they were builders) and i took a box of mince pies for lunch. Not one of those brothers would eat a mince pie It was soooooooooo funny. When i think of what wicked things go on in the JW org, and then some JW's worry about christmas day dinner and mince pies. Where is the common sense ? Where is the sen
    0 points
  42. The way the Bible expresses it is: “Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, turning away from the empty speeches that violate what is holy and from the contradictions of the falsely called “knowledge.” By making a show of such knowledge, some have deviated from the faith.” 1 Tim 6:20 The verse you are looking for is: “The wisdom of this world is such that God could learn a thing or two from it if he wasn’t so brain-dead.” Let me know when you find it.
    -1 points
  43. Of course he said it. He is now trying to walk it back because, despite all his blustering, he couldn’t quite make it stick. It is as you say. The nearness of the end has been impressed upon Witnesses from their inception, but the only specific date in anyone’s lifetime today is 1975. They burned their fingers on that one so badly that they resolved never to do that again. So far they have kept to that resolve. Every subsequent pronouncement has been generic, and is in harmony with Jesus’ counsel to “keep on the watch.” Alan’s just upset that they have not said not to keep on the wa
    -1 points
  44. TrueTomHarley

    Leo K. Greenlees

    Of course! What in the world is so controversial about that? In Western law, it is called, “presumed innocent until proven guilty.” In common parlance, it is “refrain from gossiping.” I sort of miss the times when outright gossip did not form the stuff of headlines Unless I am missing something, that is because he was not. 13 years is what it looks like from the article. He is removed when an apparently creditable accusation surfaces. It is shocking, perhaps, that he might do such a thing, but it appears pretty uncontroversial in the way it was handled. And somet
    -1 points
  45. Anna

    Leo K. Greenlees

    That was not the impression TTH gave me. Nor do I think that's the attitude of JW leaders. I think it's ignorance of how child sexual molestation really works, and naivete regarding "repentance" is what has caused all the doo doo.to happen.
    -1 points
  46. Yikes! $50 per minute to speak with a householder?! So says a gag sign posted on someone’s porch. “Doorknockers, please note. This householder charges $50 per minute to listen to any sales pitch, religious messages, or fundraising stories! Payment required in advance. By knocking on this door, you indicate that you are agreeing to these terms.” Video has captured a couple of visitors—our people, I think. The one on the sidewalk says: “What’s it say?” and the nearsighted woman squinting to read it responds with: “Let’s skip this one.” I’m done for if this catches on!...... A
    -1 points
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