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  1. 3 points
    I think this has been discussed somewhere before, that in fact Gnam's claim was correct, that is, in the context of a family member living at home, which would naturally apply to husband and wife, and any children that were currently a part of the household. But, the claim was deceptive because it did not clarify this, and allowed for the assumption that the topic included ANY family member living inside or outside the home, in other words in a broad sense, which is how most people view "family".
  2. 2 points
    Yes, the GB appear to be "strict and righteous" as the presumed "faithful and discreet slave". Jesus focused on the individual and that one’s spiritual health. The GB/elder body appears to focus on the individual, (using scripture laced with WT doctrine) and I believe there are sincere elders who really try to “adjust” a sinner; yet, ultimately, the underlying decision to be made, is not according to the spiritual health of the sinner, but the projected appearance of the organization itself. So, shunning is established and the elders are finished with “readjusting”. If they can’t make this person mold to the decrees of the organization, (which they must) that person is no longer an active “part” of the congregation, or as we know, an active “part” of his or her family. If the organization's decrees and ruler-ship are challenged, when one is "healed" of their spiritual blindness and can see Jesus Christ and the Father much more clearly, they are "cast" out - shunned. It reminds me of the event in John chapter 9, and the blind man healed by Christ. The Pharisees were furious that this man confronted them with their own spiritual blindness. The man answered and said to them, “Why, this is a marvelous thing, that you do not know where He is from; yet He has opened my eyes! 31 Now we know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does His will, He hears him. 32 Since the world began it has been unheard of that anyone opened the eyes of one who was born blind. 33 If this Man were not from God, He could do nothing.” 34 They answered and said to him, “You were completely born in sins, and are you teaching us?” And they [f]cast him out. John 9:30-34 [f] "Excommunicated him" And today, how dare we come against the leadership of the organization and teach them about Jesus Christ! As we've mentioned in the past, elders who leave the WT, have many times expressed guilt for their decisions made in judicial committees, which are based on organizational rules. Jesus was teaching “new wine”, which the WT refuses to embrace. (Matt 9:17) Calling it God’s organization, when Jesus was the perfect “image” of God, and taught forgiveness and love, shows how little the GB “know” YHVH and Jesus Christ. Then they asked him, “Where is your father?” “You do not know me or my Father,” Jesus replied. “If you knew me, you would know my Father also.” John 8:19 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? John 14:9 “The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.” Col 1:15
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  3. 2 points
    Excellent thought. Disfellowshipping is spiritual condemnation. At times the elders may admit they have wrongly condemned an individual, and it may take years before its notice. These events are rare. Condemning one's spirituality isn't to be taken lightly, but for the sake of the cleanliness of the organization, it is commonplace. "Judge[a] ("Condemn") not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what [b]judgment ("Condemnation") you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye." Matt 7:1-5
  4. 2 points
    If I had been in that same congregation, (not a thousand miles away) I know that as a faithful elder's wife I would have not even conceived covering up the wrongdoing. Well, Arauna, believe what you want. I must tell you that I tend to agree with @4Jah2me that you are a very bitter person. I have my doubts about this statement of yours: "Sorry if I come across that way. I am the least bitter person you can ever meet. Sweet, friendly and open... no bitterness." But, I give you the benefit of the doubt, knowing you suffer from arthritis. One day can be good, the next, miserable. I know pain can be a barometer gauging one's attitude for the day. What kind of people? Repeat offenders? I've already covered that. I am sorry to say, you already mix with repeat offenders. It's quite obvious if you care to look. They are spiritual "harlots" who lead you in falsehoods. (Rev 13:11,12; 17:1-6) As I said earlier - Do you have the ability to read every heart? Does the elder body? Did Jesus shun sinners? "Now it happened, as He was dining in Levi’s house, that many tax collectors and sinners also sat together with Jesus and His disciples; for there were many, and they followed Him. 16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw Him eating with the tax collectors and sinners, they said to His disciples, “How is it that He eats and drinks with tax collectors and sinners?” 17 When Jesus heard it, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.” Mark 2:15-17
  5. 2 points
    Please, if i omitted to put Bible verse/s to bake my opinion, would you be so kind to put: Bible verse/s that clearly said 1) how you have to shun dfd family member who don't living under same roof with faithful family members? and Bible verse that clearly said 2) how you can talk with dfd family member who living under same roof with faithful family members? If you would not be able to provide such scriptures than i will politely ask you to not make claim how i am person who denying scriptures (in fact scriptures that not exist in reality). Only existing thing is WTJWorg extended interpretations of Bible verses. PS Your and WTJWorg extended interpretations are so similar with examples of Jew who want to be very strict and righteous about Law which forbade working on Sabbath. And They made explanations with long list of what work is and what work is not. :)))
  6. 2 points
    I think it's still there. Under "Becoming a Witness"
  7. 1 point
    Here us the meeting material for weeks of Workbook for July 20-26 and July 27–August 2, 2020. TB CBS July 20-26 , 2020.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK week of July 20-26, 2020.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of July 20-26, 2020.pdf Watchtower July 20-26, 2020.doc Watchtower July 20-26, 2020.pdf Additional Highlights - July 20-26, 2020.doc Additional Highlights - July 20-26, 2020.pdf CBS July 20-26 , 2020.doc CBS July 27–August 2 , 2020.doc Additional Highlights -July 27–August 2, 2020.pdf Additional Highlights -July 27–August 2, 2020.doc Watchtower July 27, 2020–August 2, 2020.pdf Watchtower July 27, 2020–August 2, 2020.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of July 27–August 2.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK week of July 27–August 2.doc CBS July 27–August 2 , 2020.pdf
  8. 1 point
    It is good to write books.
  9. 1 point
    Matthew 18:15-17 15"If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector. Do you mean this one ? Well this scripture proves that your GB disobeys scripture. Because your GB or previous leaders have imposed such secrecy into the procedure of disciplining. The 'church' or congregation do not have any facts or details but are still expected to shun people, just on the say so of Elders / CO's decisions. NOW imagine if every Paedophile accusation had been told to the church, to the congregation as a whole. Then no one could have been accused of hiding Paedophiles in the congregations, AND no Paedophile would have had the opportunity to prey on more than one victim. So remember those words at Matthew 18 v 17 TELL IT TO THE CHURCH. Even though your GB decided to change that scripture to this :- 17 If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector Whereas all the others say this :- New International VersionIf they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector. English Standard VersionIf he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Berean Study BibleIf he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, regard him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. Berean Literal BibleAnd if he fails to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he fails to listen to even to the church, let him be to you as the pagan and the tax collector. New American Standard Bible"If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. New King James VersionAnd if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. King James BibleAnd if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Do you understand now ?
  10. 1 point
    I've asked to see these Scriptures quoted on here. All those supposedly direct scriptures about Shunning. So come on lets see them. Show me a scripture which refers to a person of good Bible trained conscience leaving an immoral organisation and why that person should be shunned, when it is not that person that has committed sin but the Leaders of that organisation and people in that organisation that has committed the sins........... I think @Witness said , it is us that should be shunning the CCJW and it's GB. But no, the GB make rules so that we cannot show proof to JWs exactly how perverted the CCJW really is. But my conscience is clear in that I make it known the best ways i can, to try to help people stay safe from Paedophiles and from the lies taught in the CCJW.
  11. 1 point
    Very interesting piece of news. The Catholic church is turning over a new leaf and doing what is ethically correct.
  12. 1 point
    part of text: Collaboration between Church and state The importance of collaboration between the Church and state is a fourth aspect covered in the Vademecum. It brings up, for example, that “even in cases where there is no explicit legal obligation to do so, the ecclesiastical authorities should make a report to the competent civil authorities if this is considered necessary to protect the person involved or other minors from the danger of further criminal acts.” In addition, it reiterates that “the investigation should be carried out with respect for the civil laws of each state”. -
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  13. 1 point
    Thank you @Srecko Sostar I hadn't seen this information anywhere before, but I'm sure God and Christ are watching the GB and it's Org closely, and hopefully justice will be done soon.
  14. 1 point
    The National Secular Society has urged Britain's charity regulators to ensure the restructuring of Jehovah's Witnesses (JW) charities does not obstruct victims of child abuse from claiming compensation. The NSS has raised the issue with the Charity Commission for England and Wales and the Scottish charity regulator, OSCR, after a report on BBC Radio 4's Sunday programme this week. The programme reported that the church is selling off substantial amounts of property and land that it owns. As part of a significant restructuring of the organisation, each congregation is being asked to dissolve its charitable status and merge – along with its assets – with the Kingdom Hall Trust. The trust is a registered charity whose aims include being a "custodian trustee holding title to freehold and leasehold properties acquired as places of worship". The assets mentioned on the Sunday programme included kingdom halls, which are used for worship and meetings. An abuse survivor and lawyers who spoke to the programme expressed concern that such a restructuring could leave JW charities unable to pay potential liabilities. A number of JW churches worldwide have been subject to investigations regarding their handling of sexual abuse allegations in recent years. In Australia, JW organisations have consolidated and sold properties worth millions of pounds amid a series of legal claims and a damning report from a royal commission. NSS comment NSS chief executive Stephen Evans said: "It is clearly not in the public interest for charities to be permitted to restructure in ways that may impede victims and survivors of abuse within these communities from claiming compensation. "We therefore urge the Charity Commission to use all available powers to ensure that the restructuring of JW charities does not impede abuse victims' and survivors' ability to obtain settlements." Jehovah's Witnesses and abuse in Britain JW communities' handling of abuse allegations will come under increased scrutiny next month, when the Independent Inquiry on Child Sexual Abuse is due to conduct hearings on the issue. In 2018 scores of alleged victims accused the JWs of a culture of cover-up of child sexual abuse. Earlier this year at least 20 former JWs launched legal action over abuse which they say they suffered. In 2017 the Charity Commission severely criticised the New Moston Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses in Manchester over its handling of allegations of abuse. And in 2016 the Supreme Court ruled that the Watch Tower and Bible Tract Society of Great Britain, which oversees JW congregations, couldn't prevent the commission from conducting an inquiry over its handling of abuse allegations. This week's episode of the Sunday programme is available on the BBC website; listen from 5:20 to 21:45 for the relevant section.
  15. 1 point
    You are denying all the scriptures in the bible which refers to this. So you are deliberately obtuse. you are saying God is making an abnormal rule......You talk like an atheist. Why should I take you seriously when you do not take the bible seriously. You say you accept the bible …… but only the parts you like.
  16. 1 point
    Of course !! Every "normal worldly human" have no specific reason to understand and to accept JW abnormal rule that makes separation and difference about family member who living in house, out house, in a basement or on first floor, near house or on other planet. Family member is family member, alive or dead, JW or non-JW or ex-JW.
  17. 1 point
    Russian authorities have detained a man in western Siberia “on suspicion of setting up a cell” of the Jehovah’s Witnesses religious group, considered an “extremist” organization under Russian law, state-run news agency TASS reported on Wednesday. Police detained the man recently in Seversk, a town in western Siberia’s Tomsk region. Investigators say the man and others affiliated with Jehovah’s Witnesses “organized meetings in 2017-2020, disseminated ‘extremist’ literature, and recruited new members” to the organization. In a statement released on Wednesday, the Russian Investigative Committee’s press service said: Investigators of the Russian Investigative Committee in the Tomsk Region based on the case files of the Federal Security Service and the Internal Affairs Ministry in the Tomsk Region opened a criminal case into … the activities of an extremist organization in the city of Seversk… The alleged organizer of the extremist organization’s activities was detained. He has been charged, the issue of choosing a restriction measure against him is being decided. #jwrussia Read more:
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  18. 1 point
    If we put this observation and conclusion on "next level", it is similar how elders showing "cowardice" and not reporting CSA to the ONLY AUTHORITY that is in charge to deal with CRIMES according to Romans 13 ... to the "secular authorities". Well obviously , WTJWorg have problem in detecting what is "sin" and what is "crime".
  19. 1 point
    At that point, he would have been labeled by today's standards a "PIMO" - physically in, mentally out. I doubt very much that he had any regard whatsoever for organizational protocol. He had seen its abusive tactics over the years already, used against his own father. Arauna, I lived a hundred miles shy of a thousand, from my son at the time. I didn't hear of this until he decided to move back home. Yes, please do blame my son and myself for another person's hypocrisy...if that makes you feel better.
  20. 1 point
    You quote this scripture but you still think it OK to mix with such ones on a social level? You condemn us for disfellowshipping such ones? Where is the hypocrisy? hhhhmmmmm.
  21. 1 point
    Fornication - if your son had proof of this - he himself was guilty as an accomplice - because he did not let the elders know. He knows the principles set out in the bible.... we learn that we should not tolerate wickedness amongst us. We do not help to cover up a problem, or wrongdoing. How many times did David not write in the Psalms that he does not sit with the wicked or tolerate their deeds. So your own thinking is warped as you assisted your son to accuse the elders …….but not to be part of the solution to the problem - to show courage and go to the elders and provide evidence, ....…...or at least warn them so they could talk to the young man.....about his partying and drinking. If your son did not have proof of fornication to take to the elders but did not warn them that the young man is on a self-indulgent path - he is is as guilty as you...I presume he had some warped guidance from you or have the same attitude as you. He, like you, expected to get a guilty conviction from elders for behavior they probably were unaware of; they probably had no idea of the extent of the partying. If there was not enough proof of adultery, your son could still have been part of the solution but instead blamed it on …...….privilege? Victimhood attitude? He could have been brave and been part of the solution but no, it is easier to be self-righteously superior and accuse the,,,,, privilege.... Did he expect the elders to have a crystal ball? Did he expect the elders to follow up on the young man when they did not know that it was a pattern of behavior... Elders would have asked the young man if it is true.... maybe even believed his ...excuses...... but the young man would have been warned that he is on their radar. Your son would have had the satisfaction that he pleased Jehovah - not people. So if this issue came up again by another person telling the elders about the partying and drinking..... 2 witnesses,,,,that would be enough for elders to get serious about the young man and realize he is hiding something and maybe outright ask him if he has been involved in fornication...… So your example is not proof of injustice and 'privilege' but proof of a sons cowardice to show integrity to snitch on buddies, which is as destructive as self-righteousness.
  22. 1 point
    Seen enough of your warped accusations and logic. As I said before - you feed off your hate somehow...which is not based on justice. It is based on raw emotion of hate for everything to do with JWs, GB. Arguments that show both sides ( and there are people on this forum who are prepared to meet your arguments by validating some things you say, to try to think the way you do, in order to reason with you) these people do not touch your reasoning abilities at all. It is like Ground Hog Day (over and over) same old same old.... talking to you. There is another person on here - same thing. Over emotional - no sound biblical reasoning. Just triggered. triggered all the time …,,,, not using the bible as a sound, logical, healthy disciplining tool (which I am prepared to listen to if arguments are based on reality) but as a self-righteous weapon to accuse, accuse, accuse...…… . It is really like ground hog day talking to you guys. I have seen such good reasoning here on this forum and have learnt a lot myself.... but with you two - it is like a cul-de-sac - the pits.
  23. 1 point
    Well said. I sympathize with all victims but with the latest laws the government has shifted the responsibility of bad legislation onto all the organizations working with children. The government changed the laws so the victims can go after old cases retroactively now they are adult and can talk and testify better and take the ' organization ' to court. This means that the government is shifting its responsibility on the organizations who work with children. But many of these organizations have closed.... like boy scouts etc. We are still active. There are not many JW cases but because it is JW, those who hate us blow up these cases as if we are all child molesters..... when most of us live clean, honest lives and hate these crimes. They are not going after the perpetrator because they know it is too hard to convict. They go after the organization - which in most cases did not have the resources ( child psychologists etc) to go after the perpetrator. We are an organization which tries to create a safe environment for children but we are not a crime fighting organization. This is the job of the police and government. They should take these cases and get a conviction and put the perpetrator behind bars - not retroactively after 20 or 30 years put it on the organization. In this way the perpetrator is still walking free and JWs carry the shame. Perpetrator ....... does he have any consequences for his actions with this legislation!
  24. 1 point
    You are just trying to kill off 4Jah with cognitive dissonance and I do not approve. You know very well that he will wildly cheer one statement, turn furious at the next, and laugh hysterically at the one thereafter—and that the strain will cause him to drop dead. Such attempted manipulation ought not be allowed. I am forwarding a note to the elders who run this forum to ban you from it. It really is the case that in the last days people will be saying what is bad is good and vice versa. It is not only you. I just called out Arauna for trying to kill him too, by playing with matters of capitalization. Really, everyone is going awry here—all the true prophets have been killed off and it is only I that remains—yes, only I.
  25. 1 point
    Yes. I think this is implied. It's a very imperfect world, and sometimes the world rubs off on us. But this does not mean that all of the arguments made by WTS lawyers in defense of the WTS are false. I think this is what some non-Witnesses (especially, ex-Witnesses) are anxious to believe. What's shouldn't be lost here, is that many of the points that WTS lawyers make in cases about child abuse are actually quite true. For example: The Watchtower Society/Organization is not responsible for the criminal and sinful actions of its members. Many of the arguments made in court that people complain about are merely trying to mitigate liability that was not the liability of the WTS in the first place. In many cases the victim goes after the WTS because that is the only place they can get financial redress. The primary criminal party is the perpetrator. There are times when the local elders are the ones showing negligence in after-the-fact investigations, trying to protect the reputation of the congregation or certain members of it. The liability, in this case should be on those elders. Only when following improper instructions from the WTS, should the WTS be partially liable. And even here, the local elders should understand their own personal responsibility if a process seems unconscionable. Much has been made of members of the judicial committees destroying notes made during the "investigation" process, as if this is all about a cover-up. Yet, destroying extraneous notes is (and often should be) common practice in organizations of all types, so that the findings are highlighted, not the messy process. If someone believes all elders are evil, they will think that the "official" version, which is never destroyed, is always a cover-up. But this view says more about the person imputing the wrong motives, and shows that they have not understood the typical investigation process. Watchtower disciplinary policy in congregations is not to be confused with Caesar's discipline. There are things the WTS should have done better to reduce the repetition of such crimes by perpetrators, but very little can be done about the original crime. There were things about the process in judging such matters that needed improvements too. More recently these "after-the-fact" matters and processes were handled and revised about as well as can be expected. Anyway, I only went off topic here to show that it's too easy to claim that WTS defense attorneys are constantly being dishonest. In most cases they are just using the law to protect the financial interests of the client. It's more of a negotiation, and they have to be careful what words they use. But there are also times when the "twisted" words of some attorneys shows that the WTS itself wishes it could hide some practices from the world. But if these practices are right, such as "shunning," then we should be proud to be upholding righteous counsel from the Bible. If upholding righteous counsel from the Bible makes us liable before the world, we should be proud to accept the consequences. Lying about it, or twisting words about it, makes it obvious that we are ashamed to uphold God's word in the way that we do. This is quite separate from child abuse cases, which have also sometimes included dishonesty by both defense attorneys and attorneys for victims. But when Geoffrey Jackson argues that we don't believe that Proverbs referred to a physical rod for disciplining children, or when a Witness child custody attorney argues that our summer conventions were really more about vacation fun than spiritual education, or when . . . . I won't turn it into an itemized list for opposers, but these things have already been commented upon elsewhere.
  26. 1 point
    La policía rusa realizó más de un centenar de registros en casas de miembros de testigos de Jehová, informó este martes este movimiento en un comunicado. Policías "armados con fusiles" registraron los domicilios de 110 adeptos del movimiento en Voronej (centro de Rusia), y "al menos dos fueron golpeados" por la policía, según el comunicado. "Es la serie más importante de registros contra los testigos de Jehová realizados en un solo día en la Rusia contemporánea", subraya. "Esperamos que las autoridades pongan fin a esta persecución y (podamos) preservar la libertad de religión y de culto que está inscrita en la Constitución", declaró Jarrod Lopes, portavoz de los testigos de Jehová, citado en un comunicado.
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  27. 1 point
    Certainly. But now I do wonder why Br. Glock said what he said. Is there a feeling that the GB's trust worthiness is under fire and is it gaining some success?
  28. 1 point
    I am probably misunderstanding the point you are trying to make. I don't think science has anything to do with Br. Glock's use of the word "proof' in the context he used it in. I think you might be over thinking things....
  29. 1 point
    @TrueTomHarley I know what you are saying, and I understand why you are saying it. It's similar to being a literalist. But that quote " proof they have God's backing" says exactly what it means, and essentially boils down to this: In context Br. Glock was talking about apostate lies putting doubts into peoples minds about the GB. So, "In case you doubt the wisdom of the GB because they are imperfect and sometimes make mistakes and you want proof that they have God's backing, well here is proof". (Despite the fact that anyone can issue similar guidelines, and HAS issued similar guidelines). But sorry, all it proves is that the GB have been diligent in watching the world, are wise in applying the Bible's wisdom, wise in applying the authorities' advice and that they are concerned for us and want us to stay safe.. Really, the praise goes to all the hard working CO's, elders, and publishers who willing cooperate and actually make all this work! Without the co-operation of everyone in the organization, the GB can give wonderful advice till they're blue in the face and have Jehovah standing right behind them what would it prove? Come on Tom, just admit it, it was not the best argument to prove a point ( Br. Glocks) or choice of words. And you must admit that this is somewhat of a clumsy effort at reassurance that the GB do have God's backing and that we can trust them. I believe there has been some success on the part of opposers in bringing the friends away. It was confirmed by a trustworthy elder, as I already mentioned in one of my posts. Br. Glock's talk is what the opposers like to call damage control. I won't call it that, because I am not on the opposers side. But I can see how some could think that! Actually, to be honest, I find it rather exciting as it may indicate something drastic is going to have to happen soon (oh, you don't say!) By the way, apart from the "trust the GB because we have proof they have God's backing" bit I thought the talk was very good.
  30. -1 points
    It is only the greatest Witness holiday in America, that’s all! And you choose to remain ignorant! Shame! We throw huge bashes on that day. It commemorates how the little rodent (part of God’s glorious creation—nothing idolatrous about the day at all, so Witness needn’t quote all of Ezekiel in outrage over it) pops up out of his hole, and if he sees his shadow, it means 6 more weeks of winter—or maybe it is that if he doesn’t see his shadow, it means six more weeks of that.




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