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  1. 7 points
    Witnesses did not predict anything. The magazine highlighted what the experts said - their educated guess - and brought it to the attention of the readers of Awake magazine, like they do with many important and timely subjects. Get over it!
  2. 5 points
    Here is the Weekly Material for February 17-23 and February 24–March 1 , 2020 MEETING WORKBOOK week of February 17-23, 2020 text only.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK week of February 17-23, 2020.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of February 17-23, 2020.pdf Watchtower February 17-23, 2020.pdf Watchtower February 17-23, 2020.doc Additional Highlights -February 17-23, 2020.doc Additional Highlights -February 17-23, 2020.pdf CBS FEBRUARY 17- 23, 2020.doc CBS FEBRUARY 17- 23, 2020.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK week of February 17-23, 2020 text only.doc CBS FEBRUARY 24–MARCH 1, 2020.pdf CBS FEBRUARY 24–MARCH 1, 2020.doc Additional Highlights -February 24–March 1, 2020.pdf Additional Highlights -February 24–March 1, 2020.doc Watchtower February 24, 2020–March 1, 2020.pdf Watchtower February 24, 2020–March 1, 2020.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of February 24–March 1 , 2020.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK week of February 24–March 1 , 2020.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of February 24–March 1 , 2020 text only.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK week of February 24–March 1 , 2020 text only.doc
  3. 5 points
    Using the quotes extracted from Eusebius and Epaphanius in a Wiki article
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    It might be interesting to note that the impetus to leave Jerusalem and go to Pella was not specifically credited to Jesus' prophecy in Matthew/Mark/Luke, but to an angel, or a specific oracle/revelation/prophecy given just before the war. This would put it on par with the prophecy of Agabus (Acts 11:27, 28) . . .In those days prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. 28 One of them named Agʹa·bus stood up and foretold through the spirit that a great famine was about to come on the entire inhabited earth, which, in fact, did take place in the time of Claudius. This is a curious report then by Eusebius, that he doesn't tie it to Matthew 24, or Luke 21, for example. (Epiphanius may have "corrected" this nearly 100 years after Eusebius, when he credited the flight to Jesus warning about the city being surrounded.) The idea that the command only went to those in the city who were worthy, might also imply that there were reports that some [less worthy] Christians had died in Jerusalem's destruction. Epaphanius had referenced Jesus' prophecy in his book Panarion, but in "Weights and Measures" he pretty much agreed with Eusebius:
  4. 5 points
    Unfortunately, this has been going on even from the time that the scriptures were written, or at least from very shortly after the NT was completed. This means that even the very idea that there had been an escape to Pella might just be from persons with their own agenda. The best evidence that comes down to us is from Eusebius of Caesarea and Epiphanius of Salamis. Eusebius wrote his "Ecclesiastical History" (Church History) between about 300 and 325. Epiphanius would have written "Panarion" around 375. We don't know what, if anything, was written on this topic between 70 CE and 300 CE. So this might be a little like someone just now trying to make a story about what direction we believe small bands of native Americans (Indians) ran to in 1775 in upstate NY when Ethan Allen and Benedict Arnold were capturing the guns at the British Fort Ticonderoga (which would just precede a siege of Boston and the building of a fortification of stakes around parts of that city). The "American Indians" were not a big part of that story, so there is very little written down about what they did. If someone came up with a new story about it 200 to 250 years later, we might not put much trust in it. But, then again, we might assume that there were some verbal or even written records that could be gathered up from various families in the area, and that there was some truth to such a story. We have some evidence that the apostles generally stayed in Jerusalem, per Jesus' instructions just after he was resurrected. In Galatians (and corroborated in Corinthians) Paul mentions a period of 14 years after his conversion when he finally goes to Jerusalem to meet with the apostles. If Paul converted before 36, then this refers to a time prior to 50 CE., when at least some apostles were still there. Peter and John are mentioned specifically, and James who was also mentioned had not been considered an apostle. Acts also does not mention any additional apostles (except Peter and James) still alive or around at this time. If there had been an instruction to all the apostles to stay in Jerusalem, for the purpose of forming an apostolic group to study the scriptures and devote themselves to prayer, then it may have already accomplished its purpose and broken up before 50 CE. We hear of the "The Twelve" in Acts 6, still in Jerusalem, when they send out Stephen and Philip, for example. (Still prior to Paul's conversion.) By chapter 8 of Acts we hear about the group of "apostles in Jerusalem," and how both Peter and John had been sent to Samaria (and we know from Galatians that Peter had gone as far as Antioch). But by chapter 11 of Acts we only hear of some older men in Jerusalem and only one apostle there, Peter. By the time we reach 11:29 we only hear about the effect of the famine on "the brothers living in Judea." This matches about the same timing as Paul spoke of in Galatians and elsewhere when Paul brought collections back to the brothers in Jerusalem "keeping the poor in mind." Then in the next verses of Acts (Acts 12:1-3) we see that Herod has just put the Apostle James (brother of John) to death (not the same James of "James, Peter, and John" in Galatians) and goes after Peter. After the destruction, we see John the apostle up around the isle of Patmos, but this could have been an exile from anywhere, not necessarily Jerusalem. So, we really don't know how long the apostles stayed together in Jerusalem, or whether Herod broke that up even prior to the work of Paul and Barnabas, that brought them to Jerusalem (Acts 15). No Bible writer mentions Pella. I don't think there is anyone we know about who mentioned anything about a flight to Pella until 200 years later. There are plenty of letters and stories and other Christian writings between 70 and 300, but no evidence about Pella. Still, we have the history (through Josephus) of the attack on Jerusalem, and the fact that the Romans started to attack in 66 and then decided to withdraw and not come back until they were ready to wage the war from start to finish in 70. Perhaps no Christians left in 66, although this seems like the time that would fit best. It's possible that most Christians had already left during Herod's persecution. It's possible that most Christians left just as the final approach was being made in 70 around the time of the Passover. The most "ideal" story says that Christians recognized Jesus warning when Jerusalem was approached in 66, and that they then left and stayed away for about a 3-and-a-half year period until Jerusalem was destroyed with its Temple in 70. But we have no evidence from Josephus or anyone else about that. It might also be wishful thinking to believe that no Christians were killed during the destruction of Jerusalem, as Epiphanius claimed 300 years later. As to the idea that John was the only apostle alive after 70, there is an interesting passage in John that seems to refer to his age and the timing of the parousia. (John 21:20-24) . . .Peter turned around and saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following, . . . 21 So when he caught sight of him, Peter said to Jesus: “Lord, what about this man?” 22 Jesus said to him: “If it is my will for him to remain until I come, of what concern is that to you? You continue following me.” 23 So the saying went out among the brothers that this disciple would not die. However, Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but he said: “If it is my will for him to remain until I come, of what concern is that to you?” 24 This is the disciple who gives this witness about these things and who wrote these things, and we know that his witness is true. I like your questions and there is much more to say about them, but I'll stop for now.
  5. 5 points
    Found on Facebook.
  6. 5 points
    The Librarian

    THE DEVIL’S BEST TOOL

    It was announced that the Devil was going out of business and that he would offer all his tools for sale to whom ever would pay the price. On the night of the sale, they were all attractively displayed and marked with a price, even so, they were a bad looking lot: Malice, Hatred, Envy, Deceit, Jealousy and Sensuality and all the other implements of evil were spread out. Apart from the rest, lay a harmless looking wedge shaped tool. Much worn and priced higher than any of the others. Someone asked the Devil, "What is that?" That is "DISCOURAGEMENT", THE DEVIL REPLIED! "But why do you have it priced so high?", the prospective purchaser inquired. BECAUSE SAID THE DEVIL; " It is more useful to me than any of the others. I can pry open and get inside a man's soul with it. I can do this when I can not get near him with any of the other tools I possess.. Once I get inside his mind with discouragement, I can use him in whatever way suits me best. The reason this tool is so worn, is that I can use it with nearly everyone. So, very few know that it belongs to me! It hardly needs to be added, that the Devil's price was so high for discouragement that it was never sold. He still owns it and uses it today! - contributed by email - Many thanks Jenni
  7. 4 points
    If there has been kickback on manipulation and ‘control’ charges, and if there has been kickback on ‘flip-flopping’ charges, then I would like to see kickback on charges that Witnesses ‘cover up’ child sexual abuse. A good place to start is by pointing out that leaving reporting up to the involved parties is not the same as ‘covering up.’ Instead, the Witness organization states that it “abhors child sexual abuse,” which, in combination with its reluctance to go there otherwise, is spun by determined enemies as though they love the stuff. Not all will do what reporter Elizabeth Chuck did and attribute it to a “penchant for privacy.” Why do they not respond in more detail? It may be that the sheer wickedness of the charge takes their breath away and makes them look like deer caught in the headlights. Yes, they know well the verse, “every sort of wicked thing will be lyingly said about you” but this—this is the wickedest thing of all! And the proactive arrangement started with such good intentions. Not so many years ago the notion of a religion “policing its own” was lauded as the ultimate in practicing what one preached. It wouldn’t be hard to do—to provide a brief defense of criticisms leveled at them. It might start with points such as: “Covering up” is not the same as leaving it to the digression of ones affected to report. There wouldn’t be anything to be accused of covering up had not the Witness organization practiced what almost nobody else did—policing its own. Countless persons are arrested with regard to child sexual abuse. Their religious affiliation or lack of is never reported. The reason that it is so with Witnesses is that they tried to do something about it among their own. Unlike virtually anywhere else, where the leaders of an organization are themselves the abusers, the leaders of the Witness community are accused of botching the handling of instances—bad, perhaps—history will judge—but nowhere near as bad as being the ones who commit it. That’s a few for starters. More could be added, such as The current “gold standard” of child sexual abuse to “go beyond the law” will inevitably cause you problems with those who, not surprisingly, expect you to abide by law. Child sexual abuse would appear to be the primary gross planetary product—30 years into all-out war against CSA and barely a dent has been made. Therefore efforts to prevent it ought to be given at least as much creedence as efforts to secure the barn door after the cows have fled. Nobody, but nobody, has done what the Witness organization has done, gathering every member in the world to consider detailed scenarios in which child sexual abuse might occur so that parents, obviously the first line of defense, can be vigilant. This was done as part of the program of the 2017 Regional conventions. The reason that the greater world will never make inroads with regard to child sexual abuse it that it feeds with one hand what it is trying to punish with another. The TicTok app taking young people by storm has been described as a pedophile’s dream come true. Though it is parallel and thus not exactly the same thing, the 2020 NFL halftime show demonstrates that objectifying woman is the force that makes the world go round—the MeToo movement is doomed from the start. The matter of CSA does not go away. It is not being solved. Rather, each month brings some new revelation of how the very elements of this world keep it firmly entrenched as a societal ill. It’s intricate involvement with the Child Protective Service agencies recently was reviewed in a story I must have missed. “We have set up a system to sex traffic American children” said Newsweek in January 2018: And the latest scandal—pediatricians! “Sheds light on a problem that could rival priest scandals,” states an article extrapolating from a notorious case just how many there might be. And to think I got into a squabble with that nasty O’Mally, determined to put down the Caleb and Sophia video “Protect Your Children,” while she heralded one that specifically said that it was okay for a doctor to touch you in private areas. “Ask the young women of the U.S. Gymnastics Olympic team which video they think would have offered them more protection,” I told her. Just a few basic tenets of defense for those who would like to have some response to when workmates, schoolmates, or neighbors hit them over the head with what they just saw on TV. It doesn’t cover every tiny thing—just the general outline. The nature of critics everywhere is that they would like their complaints on center stage, to the exclusion of whatever else used to be there. Maybe its not a good idea to indulge them so. Maybe it’s enough to correct matters that need it, such as making it crystal clear to members that there is no reproach in reporting child sexual abuse to police, since the abuser has already brought about the reproach. Maybe it is enough to focus on creating an atmosphere where CSA is less likely to happen. Maybe. But sometimes you do wish there was more (or any) of a public response. I did like the WT attorney’s words at the reversal of the Montana verdict. “There are no winners in a case involving child abuse. ‘No child should ever be subjected to such a debased crime....Tragically, it happens, and when it does Jehovah's Witnesses follow the law. This is what the Montana Supreme Court has established.”
  8. 4 points
    What puzzles me TTH is, you want people to show you their false representation of facts, yet Anna, JWinsider and even you have never submitted the following from the Watchtower, why is that? That would be my question. In rare instances, one Christian might commit a serious crime against another—such as rape, assault, murder, or major theft. In such cases, it would not be unchristian to report the matter to the authorities, even though doing so might result in a court case or a criminal trial. 2009 Does this mean the phrase “child sexual abuse” needed to be included in order for this statement to be of value?
  9. 4 points
    Here is the material for the next 2 weeks February 3-9 and February 10-16, 2020. TB MEETING WORKBOOK week of February 3-9 , 2020 text only.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of February 3-9 , 2020 text only.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK week of February 3-9 , 2020.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of February 3-9 , 2020.pdf Watchtower February 3-9, 2020.doc Watchtower February 3-9, 2020.pdf Additional Highlights -February 3-9, 2020.doc Additional Highlights -February 3-9, 2020.pdf CBS FEBRUARY 3 -9, 2020.doc CBS FEBRUARY 3 -9, 2020.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK References for week of February 10-16, 2020.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK References for week of February 10-16, 2020.doc CBS FEBRUARY 10 - 16, 2020.pdf CBS FEBRUARY 10 - 16, 2020.doc Additional Highlights -February 10-16, 2020.pdf Additional Highlights -February 10-16, 2020.doc Watchtower February 10-16, 2020.pdf Watchtower February 10-16, 2020.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of February 10-16, 2020.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK week of February 10-16, 2020.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of February 10-16, 2020 text only.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK week of February 10-16, 2020 text only.doc
  10. 3 points
  11. 3 points
    Naturally, if it's something that might be historical but isn't found in the Bible itself, the first place you'd look is in the writings of contemporaries of first century Christians like Josephus, Pliny the Elder, Pliny the Younger You might also try persons who referenced famous persons from the first century in works that referenced say Philo or Gamaliel, etc., even though they died before the Temple was destroyed. The same would go for biographies of the Romans or their military exploits that might reference: Herod Agrippa Cestius Gallus Gessius Florus Nero, Galba, Otho, Vitellius, and Vespasian. (the 5 Roman Emperors between 66 and 70) Then you might try to find references in or about the writings of any of the following historians who might have mentioned something by chance up to within a 100 years of the Jerusalem event: Marcus Cluvius Rufus, (fl. 41–69), Roman history Quintus Curtius Rufus (c. 60–70), Greek history Flavius Josephus (37–100), Jewish history Dio Chrysostom (c. 40 – c. 115 AD), history of the Getae Thallus (early 2nd century AD), Roman history Gaius Cornelius Tacitus (c. 56–120), early Roman Empire Plutarch (c. 46–120), Parallel Lives of important Greeks and Romans Criton of Heraclea (fl. 100), history of the Getae and the Dacian Wars Suetonius (c. 69 – after 122), Roman emperors up to the Flavian dynasty Appian (c. 95 – c. 165), Roman history Arrian (c. 92–175), Greek history Granius Licinianus (2nd century), Roman history Criton of Pieria (2nd century), Greek history Lucius Ampelius (c. 2nd century AD), Roman history Dio Cassius (c. 160 – after 229), Roman history Marius Maximus (c. 160 – c. 230), biographer of Roman emperors Diogenes Laërtius (fl. c. 230), history of Greek philosophers Sextus Julius Africanus (c. 160 – c. 240), early Christian The many Jewish and Jewish Christian writings to check during this period could include those with dates on them that fit the period, as seen on earlyjewishwritings.com and earlychristianwritings.com. Note that the dates are usually considered to be "scholarly" dates, not the dates that Christians assign to them when it comes to the actual NT writings. That requires a whole new discussion, but for now, those writings to check would include the following: (Excuse the formatting issues below. I just copied them from a portion of the list at earlychristianwritings.com. It's a couple years worth of reading. I haven't completed more than a few of them, but have found nothing yet about the flight to Pella/Perea/Decapolis in any of them. The list of writings becomes much longer if you include Christian-related writings all the way up through the 300's when Eusebius and Epiphanius wrote.) 50-95 Signs Gospel 50-95 Book of Hebrews 50-120 Didache 50-140 Gospel of Thomas 50-140 Oxyrhynchus 1224 Gospel 50-150 Apocalypse of Adam 50-150 Eugnostos the Blessed 50-200 Sophia of Jesus Christ 65-80 Gospel of Mark 70-100 Epistle of James 70-120 Egerton Gospel 70-160 Gospel of Peter 70-160 Secret Mark 70-200 Fayyum Fragment 70-200 Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs 73-200 Mara Bar Serapion 80-100 2 Thessalonians 80-100 Ephesians 80-100 Gospel of Matthew 80-110 1 Peter 80-120 Epistle of Barnabas 80-130 Gospel of Luke 80-130 Acts of the Apostles 80-140 1 Clement 80-150 Gospel of the Egyptians 80-150 Gospel of the Hebrews 80-250 Christian Sibyllines 90-95 Revelation 90-120 Gospel of John 90-120 1 John 90-120 2 John 90-120 3 John 90-120 Epistle of Jude 93 Flavius Josephus 100-150 1 Timothy 100-150 2 Timothy 100-150 Titus 100-150 Apocalypse of Peter 100-150 Secret Book of James 100-150 Preaching of Peter 100-160 Gospel of the Ebionites 100-160 Gospel of the Nazoreans 100-160 Shepherd of Hermas 100-160 2 Peter 100-200 Odes of Solomon 100-200 Gospel of Eve 100-230 Thunder, Perfect Mind 101-220 Book of Elchasai 105-115 Ignatius of Antioch 110-140 Polycarp to the Philippians 110-140 Papias 110-160 Oxyrhynchus 840 Gospel 110-160 Traditions of Matthias 111-112 Pliny the Younger 115 Suetonius 115 Tacitus 120-130 Quadratus of Athens 120-130 Apology of Aristides 120-140 Basilides 120-140 Naassene Fragment 120-160 Valentinus 120-180 Apocryphon of John 120-180 Gospel of Mary 120-180 Dialogue of the Savior 120-180 Gospel of the Savior 120-180 2nd Apocalypse of James 120-180 Trimorphic Protennoia 120-180 Gospel of Perfection 120-200 Genna Marias 130-140 Marcion 130-150 Aristo of Pella 130-160 Epiphanes On Righteousness 130-160 Ophite Diagrams 130-160 2 Clement 130-170 Gospel of Judas 130-200 Epistle of Mathetes to Diognetus 140-150 Epistula Apostolorum 140-160 Ptolemy 140-160 Isidore 140-170 Fronto 140-170 Infancy Gospel of James 140-170 Infancy Gospel of Thomas 140-180 Gospel of Truth 150-160 Martyrdom of Polycarp 150-160 Justin Martyr 150-180 Excerpts of Theodotus 150-180 Heracleon 150-200 Ascension of Isaiah 150-200 Interpretation of Knowledge 150-200 Testimony of Truth 150-200 Acts of Peter 150-200 Acts of John 150-200 Acts of Paul 150-200 Acts of Andrew 150-225 Acts of Peter and the Twelve 150-225 Book of Thomas the Contender 150-250 Paraphrase of Shem 150-250 Fifth and Sixth Books of Esra 150-300 Authoritative Teaching 150-300 Coptic Apocalypse of Paul 150-300 Prayer of the Apostle Paul 150-300 Discourse on the Eighth and Ninth 150-300 Melchizedek 150-350 Preaching of Paul 150-350 Epistle to the Laodiceans 150-350 Questions of Mary 150-350 Allogenes, the Stranger 150-350 Hypsiphrone 150-350 Valentinian Exposition 150-350 Act of Peter 150-360 Concept of Our Great Power 150-400 Acts of Pilate 150-400 Anti-Marcionite Prologues 150-400 Dialogue Between John and Jesus 160-170 Tatian's Address to the Greeks 160-180 Claudius Apollinaris 160-180 Apelles 160-180 Julius Cassianus 160-250 Octavius of Minucius Felix 161-180 Acts of Carpus 165-175 Melito of Sardis 165-175 Hegesippus 165-175 Dionysius of Corinth 165-175 Lucian of Samosata 167 Marcus Aurelius 170-175 Diatessaron 170-200 Dura-Europos Gospel Harmony 170-200 Muratorian Canon 170-200 Treatise on the Resurrection 170-220 Letter of Peter to Philip 170-230 Thought of Norea 175-180 Athenagoras of Athens 175-185 Irenaeus of Lyons 175-185 Rhodon 175-185 Theophilus of Caesarea 175-190 Galen 178 Celsus 178 Letter from Vienna and Lyons 180 Passion of the Scillitan Martyrs 180-185 Theophilus of Antioch 180-185 Acts of Apollonius
  12. 3 points
    (Matthew 24:15, 16) 15 “Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken about by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place (let the reader use discernment), 16 then let those in Ju·deʹa begin fleeing to the mountains. (Mark 13:14) 14 “However, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader use discernment), then let those in Ju·deʹa begin fleeing to the mountains. (Luke 21:20-28) 20 “However, when you see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near. 21 Then let those in Ju·deʹa begin fleeing to the mountains, let those in the midst of her leave, and let those in the countryside not enter into her, 22 because these are days for meting out justice in order that all the things written may be fulfilled. 23 Woe to the pregnant women and those nursing a baby in those days! For there will be great distress on the land and wrath against this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled. 25 “Also, there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth anguish of nations not knowing the way out because of the roaring of the sea and its agitation. 26 People will become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 And then they will see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 But as these things start to occur, stand up straight and lift up your heads, because your deliverance is getting near.” The words of Mark and Matthew implied that the Romans would have come right up to the Temple to defile it, and that this was the time to leave as quickly as possible. We know from Josephus that Jews read Daniel's "abomination of desolation" to be based on Antiochus IV, who: according to common knowledge had done as follows, 200 years earlier: In 168 BC, the Greek king Antiochus IV Epiphanes invaded Jerusalem and captured the city. He marched into the Jewish temple, erected a statue of the Greek god Zeus, and sacrificed a pig on the altar of incense. This provoked a revolt in Judea as the Jews fought to remove Antiochus’ sacrilege from the temple.
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    But Titus did not do anything akin to this in 66. Although in 70, he did. You can see almost direct evidence of this today by looking at the Arch of Titus. In that year, the Roman general Titus invaded Jerusalem to crush a Jewish revolt, entered the temple, had the building destroyed, and carried off the lampstand and other temple artifacts to Rome. So, it seems likely that it was not specifically anything in 66 (in Jesus' prophecy) that would have triggered a fleeing to Pella, nor does anyone who believed in a Pella flight actually time it to 66. Cestius Gallus did plunder the Temple [funds] and it resulted in a counter-attack by the Jews that was mostly successful. So this was an excellent time to leave, and both Jews and Romans got out of the city at that time. Wikipedia says: The Roman governor, Gessius Florus, responded by plundering the Second Temple, claiming the money was for the Emperor, and the next day launching a raid on the city, arresting numerous senior Jewish figures. This prompted a wider, large-scale rebellion and the Roman military garrison of Judaea was quickly overrun by the rebels, while the pro-Roman king Herod Agrippa II, together with Roman officials, fled Jerusalem. As it became clear the rebellion was getting out of control, Cestius Gallus, the legate of Syria, brought in the Syrian army, based on Legion XII Fulminata and reinforced by auxiliary troops, to restore order and quell the revolt. Despite initial advances and the conquest of Jaffa, the Syrian Legion was ambushed and defeated by Jewish rebels at the Battle of Beth Horon with 6,000 Romans massacred and the Legion's aquila lost. But at that point, Christians would have many months of opportunities to leave the city between 66 and the actual surrounding of Jerusalem in 70. 66 fits some of what Jesus said, but it was not a case so desperate that one would be unable to even grab a coat from inside your house. That was more like the situation just before Passover in 70. This is probably why Eusebius, who had read both Josephus and knew the Bible very well, believed the fleeing to Pella to be based on an angelic revelation.
  13. 3 points
    1 Thessalonians 5:20 Do not treat prophecies with contempt. 2 Peter 1:19 So we have the prophetic word made more sure, and you are doing well in paying attention to it as to a lamp shining in a dark place…. Revelation 22:7 Look! I am coming quickly. Happy is anyone observing the words of the prophecy of this scroll.” Revelation 1:3 Happy is the one who reads aloud and those who hear the words of this prophecy and who observe the things written in it,.... 1 Corinthians 14:1 Pursue love, yet keep striving for the spiritual gifts, but preferably that you may prophesy…...3 However, the one who prophesies builds up and encourages and consoles men by his speech. 22 Therefore, tongues are not a sign for the believers but for the unbelievers, whereas prophecy is not for the unbelievers but for the believers…...31 For you can all prophesy one at a time, so that all may learn and all may be encouraged…..39 So, my brothers, keep striving to prophesy,.... Daniel 12:4 “As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant.”.....9 Then he said: “Go, Daniel, because the words are to be kept secret and sealed up until the time of the end. 10 Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand; but those having insight will understand.
  14. 3 points
    If a JW votes in a national election ... will there be congregational sanctions against him? The last thing I heard was in 1999 in the Watchtower that it had changed that we were now allowed to follow our consciences, in voting quoted here: " Questions From Readers How do Jehovah’s Witnesses view voting? There are clear principles set out in the Bible that enable servants of God to take a proper view of this matter. However, there appears to be no principle against the practice of voting itself. For example, there is no reason why a board of directors should not take a vote in order to arrive at decisions affecting their corporation. Congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses often make decisions about meeting times and the use of congregation funds by voting with a show of hands. What, though, of voting in political elections? Of course, in some democratic lands, as many as 50 percent of the population do not turn out to vote on election day. As for Jehovah’s Witnesses, they do not interfere with the right of others to vote; neither do they in any way campaign against political elections. They respect and cooperate with the authorities who are duly elected in such elections. (Romans 13:1-7) As to whether they will personally vote for someone running in an election, each one of Jehovah’s Witnesses makes a decision based on his Bible-trained conscience and an understanding of his responsibility to God and to the State. (Matthew 22:21; 1 Peter 3:16) In making this personal decision, the Witnesses consider a number of factors. First, Jesus Christ said of his followers: “They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.” (John 17:14) Jehovah’s Witnesses take this principle seriously. Being “no part of the world,” they are neutral in the political affairs of the world.—John 18:36. Second, the apostle Paul referred to himself as an “ambassador” representing Christ to the people of his day. (Ephesians 6:20; 2 Corinthians 5:20) Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Christ Jesus is now the enthroned King of God’s heavenly Kingdom, and they, like ambassadors, must announce this to the nations. (Matthew 24:14; Revelation 11:15) Ambassadors are expected to be neutral and not to interfere in the internal affairs of the countries to which they are sent. As representatives of God’s heavenly Kingdom, Jehovah’s Witnesses feel a similar obligation not to interfere in the politics of the countries where they reside. A third factor to consider is that those who have a part in voting a person into office may become responsible for what he does. (Compare 1 Timothy 5:22, The New English Bible.) Christians have to consider carefully whether they want to shoulder that responsibility. Fourth, Jehovah’s Witnesses greatly value their Christian unity. (Colossians 3:14) When religions get involved in politics, the result is often division among their members. In imitation of Jesus Christ, Jehovah’s Witnesses avoid becoming involved in politics and thus maintain their Christian unity.—Matthew 12:25; John 6:15; 18:36, 37. Fifth and finally, their keeping out of politics gives Jehovah’s Witnesses freeness of speech to approach people of all political persuasions with the important message of the Kingdom.—Hebrews 10:35. In view of the Scriptural principles outlined above, in many lands Jehovah’s Witnesses make a personal decision not to vote in political elections, and their freedom to make that decision is supported by the law of the land. What, though, if the law requires citizens to vote? In such a case, each Witness is responsible to make a conscientious, Bible-based decision about how to handle the situation. If someone decides to go to the polling booth, that is his decision. What he does in the polling booth is between him and his Creator. The November 15, 1950, issue of The Watchtower, on pages 445 and 446, said: “Where Caesar makes it compulsory for citizens to vote . . . [Witnesses] can go to the polls and enter the voting booths. It is here that they are called upon to mark the ballot or write in what they stand for. The voters do what they will with their ballots. So here in the presence of God is where his witnesses must act in harmony with his commandments and in accordance with their faith. It is not our responsibility to instruct them what to do with the ballot.” What if a Christian woman’s unbelieving husband insists that she present herself to vote? Well, she is subject to her husband, just as Christians are subject to the superior authorities. (Ephesians 5:22; 1 Peter 2:13-17) If she obeys her husband and goes to the polling booth, that is her personal decision. No one should criticize her.—Compare Romans 14:4. What of a country where voting is not mandated by law but feelings run high against those who do not go to the voting booth—perhaps they are exposed to physical danger? Or what if individuals, while not legally obliged to vote, are severely penalized in some way if they do not go to the polling booth? In these and similar situations, a Christian has to make his own decision. “Each one will carry his own load.”—Galatians 6:5. There may be people who are stumbled when they observe that during an election in their country, some Witnesses of Jehovah go to the polling booth and others do not. They may say, ‘Jehovah’s Witnesses are not consistent.’ People should recognize, though, that in matters of individual conscience such as this, each Christian has to make his own decision before Jehovah God.—Romans 14:12. Whatever personal decisions Jehovah’s Witnesses make in the face of different situations, they take care to preserve their Christian neutrality and freeness of speech. In all things, they rely on Jehovah God to strengthen them, give them wisdom, and help them avoid compromising their faith in any way. Thus they show confidence in the words of the psalmist: “You are my crag and my stronghold; and for the sake of your name you will lead me and conduct me.”—Psalm 31:3." Now, all this is well and good .... but if a Brother's conscience will allow him to vote in national elections ... will he be chastised, sanctioned, or punished for the free exercise OF his conscience, by the CCJW ?
  15. 3 points
    The Watchtower is getting PROsecuted no PERsecuted all over the World.
  16. 3 points
  17. 3 points
    This could easily be true. It's also possible that a JW in good standing at the Australian Branch leaked it. It's also possible that it was cleaned up to make it look like many fewer Elders and MS were involved. Some things seem very unlikely to us because we all have preconceived ideas about what such data would look like. I responded when I saw this because the word "proof" and "proves" were being used. This is evidence, not proof. I think that JTR recognized this when he said we needed "hard data." None of us collected the evidence. None of us produced the spreadsheet. I'm confident that this is good evidence, but that doesn't make it proof. For example, we don't know but that perhaps all Elders and MS were supposed to have been mostly removed from that sheet before it was handed over. This seems unlikely, but things like this have happened. Statistics are often manipulated. On a much more minor topic I gave my own experience where I was "in the room where it happened" as one particular statistic was changed so that the WTS appeared to have a better report than it actually got when the statistic was announced. Also, TTH, the abusers reported were not 100% clergy in all the other reports given over to the ARC. In fact, some of the commentary about other entities run by churches, but not by clergy were part of the investigation. Outside of the ARC, I have only followed a few cases haphazardly, but I saw several reports where I could tell they were not just including "clergy." The Southern Baptist cases, for example, included many church volunteers along with clergy. Wikipedia says: On February 10, 2019, the Houston Chronicle and San Antonio Express-News published an investigative report into widespread sexual abuse within member churches of the Southern Baptist Convention. The report found since 1998, roughly 380 clergy, lay leaders and volunteers had faced allegations of sexual misconduct, leaving behind over 700 victims.[1]
  18. 3 points
    Anna

    Hundreds of child abuse payments held up

    Actually there is proof. ALL cases in Australia were submitted to the Australian Royal Commission. I have a copy of the file on my pc. When I get the time I will post it. You can peruse it at your leasure and see that the majority of abuses were not committed by elders. There is no reason to believe it would be any different in the other countries....
  19. 3 points
    OK ....so the World ignored those experts ..... too. That's three blind pigs.
  20. 3 points
    He reading Awake in wrong way. :))) Article said how MANY EXPERTS, Medical Journal VACCINE and JOHN M. BARRY ..... PREDICTED this and that.
  21. 3 points
    "According to many experts"? What does THAT mean? WHO in particular? What are they experts OF? What exactly makes these anonymous people experts? The "People of the World" were what? .... about 7 Billion back in 2005? How many copies of the Awake! actually got into the hands of 7 billion people, who ACTUALLY READ THEM, and even then ... WHAT COULD THEY HAVE DONE ABOUT IT?? .... my guess is nothing whatsoever. It's like me ... if I heard that Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles, carrying 100 megaton yield Hydrogen Bombs MIGHT hit my home town someday in the future, as we have been 70 years and more since the World was engaged in an atomic (albeit one sided) war. What could I do about it? NOTHING !!!! Disregarding the publications TOTAL lack of credibility in foreseeing the future, even a blind pig, once in a great while, will find SOMETHING to eat..
  22. 3 points
    I'm just glad I live in England. I hope this is far enough away from James and his house full of weapons. Hope he doesn't get his hands on missiles. But seriously though, a country that starts a war for greed and power and is willing to kill other people. If the idea is to take land, goods, riches, people, livestock et al. Then it is premeditated killing that should not be happening. I do not think God approves of any of that. I would think that God would class it as murder. Whether as a whole, or as each individual killing. And I would think the ones doing the attacking and killing would be judged differently to those doing the defending. I have mixed feelings about killing for defence. But if someone was attacking my wife then I would think natural defence mechanism would come into play. However, the time will come, as i think @Arauna mentioned, when true servants of God will be attacked and killed. I have my doubts that God is gong to defend everyone of His servants. So, will God's true servants just allow themselves to be killed ? Allowing the stealing of our possessions is easy enough, but allowing someone to kill you / me, i don't know............
  23. 3 points
    Well, it doesn’t entirely fit, but the speaker yesterday drew the following contrast between knowledge and understanding: Knowledge: a tomato is a fruit Understanding: Don’t put it in a fruit salad.
  24. 3 points
  25. 3 points
    A report on the torture of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia and 4Jah attaches an laughing emoji to it. What a nasty piece of work he is.
  26. 3 points
    Isabella

    Unselfish Volunteers

    Five dreary months have passed since Hurricane Dorian lay waste Abaco and Grand Bahama, and daily in the local press we hear and read of persons being dissatisfied with the pace of hurricane reconstruction. #However, I am sure that at least ninety-five if not one hundred per cent of those who were adversely affected by the hurricane were members of churches and paid collection or tithes on a weekly or monthly basis. Consequently, it is not unreasonable to think that these churches would assist their parishioners or their congregants in some meaningful way. #When disasters have occurred in our country, and especially since hurricane Andrew, I have been impressed by the work done by the denomination of Jehovah’s Witnesses who quickly mobilised members of their organisation, both local and foreign to expertly repair and replace their places of worship and the homes of their members. #From personal knowledge I am aware that homeowners have only to provide building supplies, if they have the means, and volunteers, at no personal remuneration, assist in making the homes habitable. #Surely the other denominations have members who are carpenters, masons, electricians and plumbers who are willing to devote some of their spare time to assist their members in this way? #For, whilst repairs generally are proceeding at a snail’s pace, the Jehovah’s Witnesses have successfully repaired homes and their Kingdom Hall in Marsh Harbour will be ready for their annual Memorial service in April this year. All through the unselfish work of volunteers.
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  27. 3 points
    In my experience, someone who got “raped” didn’t automatically go to the elders for advice on how to deal with that situation. They contacted “secular authority” first, made a criminal report, went to the hospital to get checked out and to gather evidence, and then after all said and done, go to the Elders for “spiritual support”. I could say the same thing about child sexual abuse. In my experience, the process was the same, ending with secular convictions and congregational disfellowship. This applied to either within the Org or coming from the outside world. What you are claiming here is nothing more than ex-witness propaganda about, Witnesses don’t think for themselves. An error in judgement and an incorrect assumption. The same erred assumption you made about how the watchtower should just allow secular authority take control of allegations when Bro Jackson asked for just that and it didn't even make it to the Australian parliament for debate and consideration. How could they when the supposed watchdog ARC itself bushed it off as you can see with Stewart's response, Jackson: So if the government does happen to make mandatory reporting, that will make this dilemma so much easier for us, because we all want the same goal that children will be cared for properly. ARC Stewart: Leaving aside the question of overriding mandatory law from the civil authorities, Ask yourself why. First and foremost, every true witness is loyal to God not Elders, or the GB. The aforementioned are there to “guide” witnesses in spiritual matters. Just like the ARC asked Bro Jackson if the Branch Office “seek to obey” the GB, the answer was “first of all” the branches seek to obey God and since the GB are a central body of spiritual men that give spiritual direction, then the assumption is to follow that spiritual direction unless someone can show just cause biblically there is an error in scriptural application. That has been the assumption since at least 1950 when the watchtower was in full control of JW’s. The same thing goes for Elders and the branch office.
  28. 3 points
    Jesus changed everything. The law was a ' tutor' to christ. So now we must love our neighbours as he did. He gave his life for his friends - we must be able to do the same. If I love you in this way and you love me in this way, the world will be a wonderful place. However, most people are not prepared to give up their own ego and their own selfish goals to serve Christ properly - let alone give their life for someone else. If you are prepared to give your life it actually means you value their life as your own..... giving more than what is expected. James 4: 1 "What is the source of the wars and fights among you? Do they not originate from your fleshly desires that carry on a conflict within you"
  29. 3 points
    I personally love Red Robin's "Mad Love" gourmet burger. It must be on my top 3 list of cheeseburgers. Ask for the "Campfire" sauce for your steak fries. Yummy. It is basically a mix of BBQ and Ranch I'm told.
  30. 3 points
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  31. 3 points
    Please don’t look for end-time prophesies here, Kos. And please don’t present network TV as the channel of love. Please don’t tell us that love emanates from Harvard. Nor tell us that Congress starts each day with consideration of the daily text: “Can’t we all just get along?” Just don’t—on any of those counts. Go back to your meetings, won’t you? Join your wife and kids. Tell the brothers that you’ll try to refrain from running ahead. Work on your people skills. You don’t have to parrot every little thing. It is enough not to grab the wheel. Why is everything so American with you? NYC is Babylon the Great? Trump is the Man of Lawlessness? How are those in India or Romania going to get their heads around that? If JTR got back in due to cherishing the core teachings, anybody can. Don’t present yourself as a true prophet arising in our midst and you’ll do fine. It’s okay to present yourself as a person having doubts about this, that, or the other thing. Congregation elders have mercy toward such ones. (Jude 22) But the mercy will wear thin if you present yourself as instructor to the worldwide organization.
  32. 3 points
    I don’t think he knows anything.
  33. 3 points
    He did said that on the broadcasting. Maybe is just out of sync on the video, sometimes happens when u upload videos.
  34. 3 points
    A Russian court has convicted three followers of the Jehovah’s Witnesses of participating in a religion banned for extremism. They were given suspended sentences of up to 2 1/2 years. “Russian authorities today are following in the footsteps of their Soviet predecessors”, said a spokesman for the Jehovah’s Witnesses world headquarters in Warwick, New York. The country has convicted 24 members since 2017, when it banned the denomination. Russia is known for its laws intended to crack down on opposition activists and religious minorities. In November, Russia angered the West with by announcing a law that allows the Kremlin to label journalists and ordinary people as foreign agents if they collaborate with foreign media organisations and receive financial or other material support from them. Last week, one of Russia’s elite universities, announced it is considering banning its students and staff from performing political speech.
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  35. 3 points
    Isabella

    Truth by Tie Bros

    The idea above was submitted by a patron. (The 1995 7/1 Watchtower “What is Truth” covers this topic well.) Bonus point: Suppose the room is 75 degrees, but the two men feel it’s too cold or too hot. The cold man decides to change the temperature by adjusting the thermostat so that it’s more comfortable for him, but now the man who feels it is too hot is suffering. This frustrates the hot man, so he adjusts the temperature to cool himself down. Now the cold person is suffering. This is similar to how religions treat the Bible. Christendom’s Churches keep adjusting and changing what the Bible teaches to try to make people more comfortable in their church. For example, they lower the temperature on God’s commands against the practice of homosexuality. Doing this doesn’t actually work. Their efforts to appease some ultimately ends up offending others. Bothered by the lies and hypocrisy people leave the “room” altogether. The Bible should not be adjusted to make people feel more comfortable with their behavior. The temperature has been set by Jehovah. If someone is too cold, they can adjust and put on more clothes. If someone is too hot, they can adjust and remove unnecessary items of clothing. Instead of adjusting God’s standards to Make people more comfortable with immoral choices, people need to be encouraged to make personal adjustments to line up with God’s standards.
  36. 3 points
    It appears that they made the top choice, and one they were already familiar with, or had developed "ties" with, as we see from the jw org link. Wikipedia on Cesnur, the organization that Introvigne directs: CESNUR has been described as "the highest profile lobbying and information group for controversial religions". But, we know "the love of money is the root of all evil" CESNUR describes itself as an independent scholarly organization, but the organization has met with criticism for alleged personal and financial ties to the groups it studies; anthropologist Richard Singelenberg questioned in 1997 whether CESNUR is "too friendly and does not make enough critical comments about new religious movements and sects".[12] Many scholars, however, see it in a favourable light and share its criticism of the "sect-monitors".[2] For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs. 1 Tim 6:10
  37. 3 points
    Witness

    Weather forecast and Stephen Lett

    Sadly, the majority won’t say, “well that was short-lived! These men lied to us when they said, “the GB is convinced that Jehovah is directing that the world headquarters be moved to Warwick”. The majority won’t say, “God didn’t bless the purchase of that land or their endeavor to build His house like they told us.” I doubt that the majority of JWs will call the tornado, "an act of God". They WILL somehow rationalize Lett’s words by saying, “Satan is the ultimate cause”, even though Lett also said, WELL, BY ALIENATING HUMANS FROM JEHOVAH, SATAN DEPRIVES THEM OF THE CREATOR LOVINGLY CONTROLLING THE WEATHER FOR THEIR BENEFIT.
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    Confusion, confusion. A JW who was in a congregation that I attended, told another concerning my leaving, that I had "left the protective arms of Jehovah, found only through his organization". I do believe many do expect divine protection.
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  38. 3 points
    JW Insider

    Weather forecast and Stephen Lett

    In the video from the linked post, Paula White says: "...we declare that any strange winds, any strange winds that have been sent to hurt the church, sent against this nation, sent against our president, sent against myself, sent against others, we break it by the superior blood of Jesus." I hope this clears up any misunderstandings.
  39. 3 points
    Wow if the society's buildings and branches is proof what about the Mormons 100 billion bank account thats way more tangible proof to me then 😆😆😆
  40. 2 points
    Covid-19 NOT being life threatening is a challenge? To do what, count legs still standing up, and divide by two? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- t's NOT a pandemic because ( .... so far .... ) the Corona virus, Covid-19, or Wuflu, by whatever name it is called daily, has affected about 80,000 people as of today's date, and "only" killed about 2700 people. This means the death rate is about 3% ... even including the worst countries where treatment to keep you alive is minimal, while your body mounts a defense ... and the very old and infirm are included in those statistics It has symptoms like the common cold, or at worst, the flu .... part of the Corona family of "common cold" viruses, this one being labeled No. 19.. It's a respiratory disease in humans. So far, that number of deaths .... is "reportedly" less than the "regular" variants of the flu. Please feel free to check what I think I know, as my sources may have a hidden agenda. The WHO (World Health Organization) has stated that as of today it does NOT meet the criteria for a pandemic. To put this in perspective, Malaria, caused by mosquitos, KILLS ABOUT 100,000 PEOPLE A MONTH, continuously, worldwide. And has ... for a very long time. My guess is that if you treat Wuflu with a CONSTANT barrage of treatments as you would for someone with severe asthma, who also has the "normal" flu, it is VERY survivable. Statistics are made up of mostly those who do NOT have these resources, and by lack of resources, and education, are relatively doomed in advance. THis whole thing reminds me of when William Randolph Hearst, once the owner of the nation's largest newspaper chain, artificially created news to sell newspapers, and eventually convinced the American people to demand Congress to declare war against Spain, who owned Cuba at the time. He telegraphed his reporters in Havana, who had nothing to write about the supposed atrocities of Spain against the Cubans, to provide photographs, and he would make up the atrocities, His telegram stated " "...you supply the pictures, I will supply the war". In the newspaper business " If it bleeds, it leads!" ... and headlines sell papers. ... same thing.
  41. 2 points
    You are so polished at blame-shifting, not even addressing the topic. It's okay that you are lied to, by men who are getting rich through their tried and true scheming methods that fleece the flock. I've known many a JW who became involved in "get rich quick" schemes, struggling to make ends meet and promised lucrative returns; but instead, being taken by their own spiritual brothers. I suppose they will pay also, just as you say Winston will? But, lets sweep all of WT's lies under the carpet with their pedophile issues, their failed doctrines taught for years; and new doctrine that JWs swallow down with no problem, because they are so use to being lied to. Let's focus on Winston instead.
  42. 2 points
    Matthew 5 v 38 through 42. “You heard that it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’a 39 However, I say to you: Do not resist the one who is wicked, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him.b 40 And if a person wants to take you to court and get possession of your inner garment, let him also have your outer garment;c 41 and if someone in authority compels you into service for a mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one asking you, and do not turn away from one who wants to borrow from you. I think Jesus made it clear that those serving God properly should not resist the Authorities of the world. Those Superior Authorities are placed in their position by God. “Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God.”—ROMANS 13:1. So why would JWs want to resist an investigation by the Superior Authorities if they have nothing to hide ?
  43. 2 points
    I believe this is true, although I'm not sure what it proves. It seems that only just over 10 percent of the abusers in that list were Elders or MS. (Taken only from two samplings of 200 near the front and 200 near the end.) With Witnesses, even parishioners have a "title" or "role" in the congregation. In the majority of reports from other religious organizations it is usually those in leadership positions or persons with "titles" of some kind, teachers in religious schools, etc. But this has not always been true. Some other religious organizations have given reports that included parishioners in their lists of abusers. Also, a review of newspaper articles about individual criminals associated with JWs more often go for the story where an elder or MS is the abuser. But there are still a couple of potential problems with the lists. One is that the question is often about whether the abuser was in the role of Elder or MS at the time of the first abuse. I noticed a case on the very first page where the answer was only a Parishioner, yet that same person was also removed from their position as Elder or MS. (Also there are cases where the person was an Elder and not removed.) When cases take a long time to process or be reported, or there were multiple cases of abuse, the abuser might very well continue to progress to MS or Elder until the abuse is reported or made known. Also, I hope this one is much less likely, but when the abuse is first "reported" it is not yet (or sometimes ever) technically considered an actual case of abuse, only an accusation. This leaves time to remove the elder or MS from his position, as he should be 'free from accusation.' This removal can even happen without a committee, just based on the suggestion to the accused 'until things are cleared up.' So when an accusation is finally taken seriously enough to treat as a real case of abuse, this might be based on the fact that a previous accusation was not taken seriously and now it must be. Therefore the "first" case of abuse can be timed to the "second" accusation, after the precaution was taken of removing the elder or MS from his position. I know of a physical abuse case that was handled this way. And in another case (not abuse) I know my father was involved as one of two elders rushing to get a generally inactive Witness disfellowshipped to reduce any embarrassment on the congregation before the incident hit the papers.
  44. 2 points
    I noticed about some Bible verses and reports about some events where taking other people life is issue this: In some events, according to Bible, God making fire from heaven, earthquake, flood, angels warriors or similar and killed few or many people. In some other events, perhaps there is more such reports, God told, command particular people to kill other people, under various and different circumstances. From this we can conclude, how people who belong or think they belong to only true religion or organization can't know for sure: will their God told them to stay still and watch, or will He command them to take action. God showed two side of his will. In old Israel they had professional soldiers, but before they came to have professional army, many were simple ordinary workers. And they learned skills. JW people today not learning such skills, but for sure learning how to use "theocratic warfare" methods .... and that can be lethal too. (Not reporting CSA to secular government and shunning policy can have for sure very bad results).
  45. 2 points
    I did too... and sometimes still do at Tooncast channel
  46. 2 points
    I agree, again. But why would words that carry Moral and Ethical obligation for all (elders and rank and file members), ... why there is a need for such selection about "spiritual food" for elders that is not allowed to be read by all other members ("Shepherd book" is what i have in mind at moment)?
  47. 2 points
    So far, very little has gone on in that club. There were a few discussions of what people liked or didn't like about recent and/or upcoming Watchtower studies. It was probably considered better to discuss such things without every topic being turned into: "Yes that's true but you also have a CSA problem." You might not believe it, but we had a guy here once who could take any topic, even one about how you might pronounce YHWH, and would still find a way to weave in a dig about CSA.
  48. 2 points
    Ok... I added a "Back to top" button on the lower right hand side....
  49. 2 points
    Manipulation is the byword of the Watchtower. Tom, we are to be "moldable pieces"....not of dough, but of clay. Yet you, Lord, are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; we are all the work of your hand. Isa 64:8 Every faithful JW is the product, the "work", of the organization. The manipulation began with the promise of eternal life, if and only if, one enters and becomes its product. "You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies." 1 Cor 6:19b,20 Samuel Herd used the partial scripture in 1 Cor 6:19, which in its entirety, refers to the anointed Temple. Although he used it to support the construction work, the Bethel work, the organizational work as a whole. When JWs are baptized, they are dedicated to the organization. They are no longer their own, but must live up to that vow (which the magazines have reminded them of) What Herd meant was... "You are not your own; you were bought at a price (your life/soul). Therefore honor the organization with your bodies."
  50. 2 points
    In replying to Srecko Sostar's and Anna's observations I would like to add my own direct observations, using everything I know from the modern history I have studied, and things I have carefully watched over my 73 years of travel around the Sun. I could give hundreds of examples from REAL history and REAL life experiences, but I have done that over a period of time, and have never changed anyone's mind by hard verifiable facts, so I will call upon you to think deeply about your real life knowledge, and real life experiences, and see if you can come up with a different conclusion than the one I have. 1) Jehovah does not interfere in the affairs of mankind in any ways whatsoever, in modern times. The whole point of our existence is to be an experiment for the entertainment of Jehovah God .... and if you interfere with an experiment ... the results are skewed. Think of it as the theocratic equivalent of the Heisenberg Principle, that governs quantum mechanics. As counter-intuitive as it sounds, in the quantum world, if you watch an experiment ... it changes the results. Same thing. I have seen Brothers, much better men than I in every way, killed, yet somehow I survive. I have seen 8 million and more Brothers and Sisters pray for the Russian Federation to release our Brothers and return our property in Russia, with ZERO results. I have seen four Sisters in one car, out in Field Service killed , being t-boned in an intersection. I thank Jehovah several times a day for my, and my wife's lives, and the circumstances, times, and place that I live. But without excellent doctors, money, insurance, and a dozen other things, I would have died many years ago. I see 20/20 now, but I have been blind, twice, and it is ONLY because of money and circumstances, and reasonably competent doctors that I can see. The list of things I am thankful for is quite large, and I thank Jehovah God for my life, and the opportunity to know how to live a good and wholesome life, with my wife and dogs, and chickens, and an internet connection that I can sit in my computer room, and explore the Universe in detail. Whether or not I can afford to get my roof fixed ....is entirely up to me. The fact of the matter is that Jehovah does NOT interfere with the experiment, today. Not in big things ... not in small things. There is the old parable of the country Church, where the congregation prayed earnestly and long for God to heal little Johnny's crippled legs ... and God answered those prayers. NO. The last time he tweaked the Petri Dish was about 2,000 years ago. Since the chances of winning the Lottery are about one in 295 million, should I win, I may change my opinions slightly .... but it is still my responsibility to buy a ticket.

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