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  1. 7 points
    Here is the weekly material for the next 2 weeks July 8-14 and July 15-21, 2019. TB MEETING WORKBOOK week of July 8-14 , 2019 text only.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of July 8-14 , 2019 text only.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK week of July 8-14 , 2019.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of July 8-14 , 2019.pdf Watchtower July 8-14, 2019.doc Watchtower July 8-14, 2019.pdf Additional Highlights - July 8-14, 2019.doc Additional Highlights - July 8-14, 2019.pdf CBS July 8-14, 2019.doc CBS July 8-14, 2019.pdf CBS July 15-21, 2019.pdf CBS July 15-21, 2019.doc Additional Highlights -July 15-21.pdf Additional Highlights -July 15-21.doc Watchtower July 15-21, 2019.pdf Watchtower July 15-21, 2019.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week ofJuly 15-21, 2019.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK week ofJuly 15-21, 2019.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week ofJuly 15-21, 2019 text only.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK week ofJuly 15-21, 2019 text only.doc
  2. 6 points
    Next week DV I will know, and will tell you. Maybe this time your children will learn something that will show them the need to visit more often and to process information so they practice godly devotion more fully which includes checking on your parents. (mentioned somewhere in 1 Timothy.) Work in progress.
  3. 5 points
    I will start with this WT Society quote from
      Hello guest!
    : Tell him to stop and listen to the bird singing. Then ask him, "Who created the birds and taught them to sing?" God did this. God created heaven and earth and all living beings!He gives life. Here we see how publication speaking about one special ability, among many others, ability to learn. So, by this quote we see how animals have ability to learn, and that, in a direct way, personally from God! :)) Yes, this WT Society book is for children, but as simplified edition it could be for adults too. :)) Let's go to article named: “His Invisible Qualities Are Clearly Seen” Paul said, "[God] invisible attributes, namely his eternal power and deity, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, because they are distinguished by what is created, so that these people have no excuses" ( Romans 1:20 ). If we look closely at these words, we will be convinced that the Creator is like an artist who signed his masterpiece. - source:
      Hello guest!
    It is also interesting that in same Creative Day, God has made land animals and humans - together. For First Humans God was not given one Special Day and Separate Day for creating this The Crown of His Creation - humans. No, He made them in the same day. Are Humans the Only Bearers of God’s Image? Humans are not made with some special materials, but also from dust as animals. Also, Genesis not telling us about how in Paradise existed predators and prays. But how all living as Equal Creatures, with no Mastering from first Human above any of animal. They all had equal position in Paradise. To live and be happy. Only after the Flood we see how God speaking about huge change - Permission to kill animals for food: Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. Mastering over them in: The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on all the birds in the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all the fish in the sea; they are given into your hands. But something is also very interesting: And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being. Lifeblood of animals and of humans are on same Level before God! And next thing is interesting: “I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you—the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you—every living creature on earth. Why would God made covenant with Animals as the same with Human. Why if Animals have no Qualities that God gave, supposedly, only to Human? Why, if Animals have no brain, conscious, heart, ability as Humans? Humans are Unique in Degree but Not Kind. The capability differences between humans and other creatures seem finally to amount to differences of degree and not kind. The differences among creatures pertain to complexity. There are good reasons to believe humans share basic attributes with other creatures. - source:
      Hello guest!
    Obviously, we have a lot to learn about Animals as creatures made by God Himself. :))
  4. 5 points
    TrueTomHarley

    who is referred to here?

    Moreover, if they really wanted to pump everyone into fever pitch, as John charges they do, they would not have let 1Thess 5:2-3 go unmentioned during last week’s assigned Bible reading—the verse about “whenever they are crying ‘peace and security.’ They would have hyped it to the heavens. Instead, they let it pass unnoticed. I think they are sailing a “steady as she goes” course among treacherous waters, doing their best not to overhype nor underhype. I just don’t like to second-guess their every move. Everyone knows what a pain a back-seat driver is. I don’t want to be one. Does John want to go back to what he once was doing, reasoning that it is enough to know that the end is “out there somewhere?” This course I believe we are “not allowed” to take—not by the GB, but by Jesus, if we would prove ourselves faithful to him. Does John point to things he thinks the GB does wrong? (Does he ever!) I note how Miriam and Aaron began to speak against Moses on account of his Cushite wife—and how Jehovah really, really didn’t like that, and He let them hear about it. This was so even though Moses actually did have a Cushite wife. As much as it is good to roam history in the spirit of “he who does not know history is doomed to repeat it,” it is probably one of those things we are just going to have to accept that we do from time to time. The presumed motivation for so searching past publications is so that we do not yet again emerge with egg on our face when something doesn’t turn out as anticipated. I think it is fair to assume that we may—for the alternative is to forget all about “keeping on the watch”—the opposite shoal, which is even more dangerous than the one we are trying to navigate. To the extent that the intent is to appear “respectable” by never again having to backtrack on prior expectations, I think the intent is misguided, though certainly understandable. Paul was described as a “pest” who was leading a “sect.” Witnesses today can expect no more. Christians then were considered the “offscouring” of the earth. Witnesses today can expect no more. What we have on this site is multiple players trying to make the case that the doers are doing it wrong—overlooking the fact that in most cases they themselves are doing nothing. Witnesses just have to accept that it will be that way. Malcontents and renegades will pick up the same refrain as you-know-who, the one who “accuses our brothers day and night before our God.”
  5. 5 points
    My wife, Susan, sent me a link to this from the downstairs computer, of a woman reunited with her dog who somehow got into a shelter. If you want to distill three days of words, words, and more words, into one photograph ..... look at this one.
  6. 5 points
    Years ago an introductory convention talk featured Matthew 13:52 “...every public instructor who is taught about the Kingdom of the heavens is like a man, the master of the house, who brings out of his treasure store things both new and old.” It wouldn’t all be new. It would be also plenty of the old. At seventy years of age, most of it will be old. It will be reminders and exhortations, encouragement and the relating of experiences. It will be new ways of looking at old things—the gem turned so that it is examined through a new facet. Since you are so very much out of harmony with the ones putting on the program, you will kick back at most of it. I mean, you are not exactly easy to satisfy.
  7. 5 points
    Law of diminishing returns is also a fundamental principle in Economics, not only Engineering. And you talking money already. But remember you go to meeting every week and you don't necessarily learn anything new, it costs clothes, gas, tyres, road tax, etc. The Convention is just a bigger meeting. You don't complain for regular meeting, so why complain for a more exciting, bigger meeting, even if you are eating ordinary spiritual food served in prettier plates or settings. Where did you meet your wife? Put yourself in the place of those who are new to the spiritual food, are now meeting other Witnesses/Christians or are even looking for mates, all these are normal things Jesus mentioned in Matthew 24. But he said some would take no note of the spiritual things until they are swept away. So what can you/I do to show more appreciation for what may begin to look ordinary? Form a longing for the ordinary food (milk) - it is necessary to grow from infancy to maturity both literally and spiritually; it will help you to grow to salvation. You know a year in advance and you prepare with anticipation. When it comes you show appreciation. I already have three sets of clothes put out and a bag packed. My convention is next week. I got my lapel card today. (1 Peter 2:2) "As newborn infants, form a longing for the unadulterated milk of the word, so that by means of it you may grow to salvation," Even if we really knew everything that we need to know, we are all works in progress, we need to work on what we know. There is always room for improvement in putting on the complete suit of armour and the new personality; in setting spiritual goals. (Ephesians 4:23, 24) And you should continue to be made new in your dominant mental attitude, 24 and should put on the new personality that was created according to God’s will in true righteousness and loyalty. Always remember that the Israelites complained about the manna, then God send the bird with lots of flesh and while they were still eating they were punished. (Someone can enlarge on the reasons why he gave them meat and then punished them.) (Numbers 11:31-34) 31 Then a wind from Jehovah sprang up and began driving quail from the sea and causing them to fall around the camp, about a day’s journey on this side and a day’s journey on the other side, all around the camp, and they were about two cubits deep on the ground. 32 So all that day and all night and all the next day, the people stayed up and gathered the quail. No one gathered less than ten hoʹmers, and they kept spreading them all around the camp for themselves. 33 But while the meat was still between their teeth, before it could be chewed, Jehovah’s anger blazed against the people, and Jehovah began striking the people with a very great slaughter. 34 So they gave that place the name Kibʹroth-hat·taʹa·vah, because there they buried the people who showed selfish craving. Let's appreciate the spiritual manna. Fancy a dish prepared by God himself and people were complaining about it! If we were starving and someone gave us plain rice and water, it would help us to survive, though it might not satisfy us completely. While we are excited about new information, we still need the milk of the word as it would help us to live to salvation. It would help us renew our goals, remind us of what we already know, and keep us on the path to salvation as the apostle Peter said. We need manna and milk to live, grow and mature. People would be there who are at different stages of Christian development; some still need milk, some would be there who need solid food, some would be there who need the deeper things of God to satisfy them, but we all need spiritual food. "Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need". Matt 5:3. If and when we get into the Kingdom of God, we will be learning about love forever, as there will always be Jehovah, Jesus, and people to love. Love (Agape) never fails. (1 Cor 13:8)
  8. 5 points
    Here is the weekly material for the next 2 weeks, June 24-30 and July 1-7, 2019. TB MEETING WORKBOOK week of June 24-30 , 2019.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of June 24-30 , 2019.pdf Watchtower June 24-30, 2019.doc Watchtower June 24-30, 2019.pdf Additional Highlights -June 24-30, 2019.doc Additional Highlights -June 24-30, 2019.pdf CBS June 24-30, 2019.doc CBS June 24-30, 2019.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK week of June 24-30 , 2019 text only.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of June 24-30 , 2019 text only.pdf CBS July 1-7, 2019.doc Additional Highlights -July 1-7.pdf Additional Highlights -July 1-7.doc Watchtower July 1-7, 2019.pdf Watchtower July 1-7, 2019.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of July 1-7 , 2019.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK week of July 1-7 , 2019.doc MEETING WORKBOOK week of July 1-7 , 2019 text only.pdf MEETING WORKBOOK week of July 1-7 , 2019 text only.doc CBS July 1-7, 2019.pdf
  9. 4 points
    Of course, there was that "God-damned" snake in the grass back in Eden. It was cursed to crawl on the ground and lick the dust with its [forked] tongue. Then there were those pigs that allowed themselves to be possessed by demons, and were driven to commit suicide. Certain animals might have listened to communication from God to be able to receive a name from Adam. The same could be said for the animals that listened to communication from God to get on Noah's ark. Or for ravens to find Elijah to bring him food. Or, perhaps even a big fish who nearly snacked on Jonah. And there's that special relationship between Jehovah and Leviathan and Behemoth. God gives animals "meat in due season" (food at the proper time): (Psalm 104:27) . . .All of them wait for you To give them their food in its season. And a donkey evidently saved a man's life by ascertaining an invisible angel. On a serious note, I think most people agree that many persons have an unbalanced view of pets. But it's also easy to get unbalanced in the direction of disdaining pets and animals. Remember that Jehovah himself rejoices at his works which obviously includes his many interactions with animals according to the context of Psalm 104. (Psalm 104:28-31) . . .What you give them, they gather. When you open your hand, they are satisfied with good things. 29 When you hide your face, they are disturbed. If you take away their spirit, they die and return to the dust. 30 If you send out your spirit, they are created, And you renew the surface of the ground. 31 The glory of Jehovah will last forever. Jehovah will rejoice in his works.
  10. 4 points
    Yeah .... I had to give up bacon many years ago, because I just could not afford it ... or would not afford it because the price was so high ... and MANY foods escalated in price to the point I stopped buying them. But Golden Corral Buffet has a TREMENDOUS selection, and my wife and I are "Seniors", and if we get there before 4PM, we can get the dinner menu for the price of a "Senior Lunch/Early Bird Special". That means that for $9.00 apiece, we can feast like kings ... steak, spare ribs, giant shrimp prepared four different ways, pizza, fried chicken, chili, beef stew, clam chowder ( my favorite...), and before 4pm we get free soft drinks, as well. Every kind of desert you could want, and any kind of salads you could fix. Eight different kinds of fruit, and all the real, quality ice cream you can eat! I calculated that by eating one large meal a day, we can eat like kings for $10 a day apiece, which is less than the cost of groceries to eat half as well, AAAAAAND ... no preparation, OR dishes to wash! Even including the fuel cost to get there and back,, it's cheaper. ..and light years better!
  11. 4 points
    To me, 1 Tim 6:20 seems more related to the so-called knowledge that comes from inside the congregation, because this would be consistent with the prior context of 1 Timothy. The idea of falsely called wisdom from the outside is referred to especially in the first three chapters of 1 Corinthians, which @Outta Here referred to. Not that the idea is wrong, but bringing up 1 Tim 6:20 in the context of something that the JW Organization should be particularly good at seems wrong to me. That's because I believe it refers to something that SHOULD be a pet peeve of every Witness about a particular habit of the Watchtower writers that continues to get us in trouble. We very often, historically, have made claims about certain interpretations of the scriptures that are completely unnecessary, and which turn out to be things that we end up dropping when the contradictions to actual events or other scriptures become too untenable to stretch belief any further. I could relist every single teaching which has had to be updated to make this point. But each of those interpretations was treated as knowledge when it was taught. Even though they turned out to be false, and required updating. Just because we like to avoid the word false, and call it "refinements" or "increasing light" changes nothing about the falsehood of the previously called knowledge. But spiritual food does not have a shelf life. Those false teachings were never spiritual food to begin with. There has NEVER been a reason to turn a specific interpretation into "knowledge."
  12. 4 points
    JW Insider

    who is referred to here?

    That's good advice. I really did take a risk in guessing that @Bubba Johnson Jr also had in mind how Brother Splane's "Chart of the Ages" could be related to 1 Thess 5. It turned out that I was right, and that this was not a distraction from the subject matter, but ended up getting right to the heart of the subject matter. To me, the mistake that Russell made with the pyramids also gets exactly to the real heart of the matter. This is why, as a joke, I did something similar with Splane's chart to what Russell claimed he did with the charts of the crisscrossing drains and ducts that were built into the Pyramid. I won't discuss the pyramid topic in full here, but if anyone else is interested in a serious discussion I'm up for it under another topic heading. Your own post was typical. A few things right, a few things wrong, a few WT quotes with unrelated information that you believe defended Russell. You add information that you pretend is not already simple and obvious so that you can call others ignorant and deceptive. Unfortunately, even if you already see where you were wrong, I still have come to expect only more attacks, arrogance, name calling and diversions. If you want anyone to take you seriously, I recommend a method that gives more weight to facts and evidence, rather than just bluster and arrogance.
  13. 4 points
    Anna

    who is referred to here?

    I understand you may be concerned about adding anything to scripture (or taking away), since that is a very serious thing, but adding something to what is after all human speculation, surely is not a big deal? Also, what Jesus Christ is saying to us now, is what he said 2000 years ago, and is recorded in the Bible for anyone to see.
  14. 4 points
    TrueTomHarley

    who is referred to here?

    “Now as TrueTom was saying these things in his defense, Festus said in a loud voice: “You are going out of your mind, TrueTom! Great learning is driving you out of your mind!” But TrueTom said: “I am not going out of my mind, Your Excellency Festus. Well, actually, you do have a point. I guess I am going nuts, but it is not on account of great learning. I am spending too much time with the yo-yos on the worldnewsmediaforum.”
  15. 4 points
    Truth means "the whole truth, and nothing but the truth." Not whitewashed, partial truth, and not just the "spin" that tickles our ears. That's everyone's own business whether they would rather know the whole truth, or ignore the truth, or assume that others can and should prioritize for them what they need to know as "the truth." But, for me, I think we would be hypocrites to sing songs like we just did this last week. (Make the Truth Your Own), the comments on Colossians 2:8, etc., etc. Most of our meetings contain small reminders that we need to "love" truth. It shouldn't matter where it takes us. Actually, it should matter. And it should matter, even more, that some people don't want us to go where it takes us. It's difficult for most of us to admit that the "Watchtower religion" has been a cult in the past. (In the more pejorative sense of the word.) The Watchtower publicly admits that this is true, claiming that many of the Bible Students were cult worshipers of Charles Taze Russell. We know that Rutherford said he determined to rid the Watchtower of the personality cult that worshiped Russell. He called this "creature worship" because they were worshiping a man. But we also know that, for many years, Rutherford himself was part of the same cult, and even bragged in 1916 that Russell's enemies would soon have to come and "worship at his feet." But, in general, I think Rutherford finally did a pretty good job replacing the cult members with persons who were looking for practical Bible truth, and not just for a man to do their thinking for them. But many persons, even Watchtower writers, have confused God and the earthly organization. And, this idea might surprise many, but I think that F.W.Franz gave evidence that he remained as a "cult" member until he died. He loved being seen as the the primary Rabbi --The ORACLE, they called him-- and it went to his head as he tried for his entire career to revive interest in dates, chronology, numerology, Jubilees, new truths (prophetic interpretations), parallel dispensations, the pre-eminence of the truly anointed, etc. I think his influence created cult members out of several ordinary Witnesses. I believe that my great-grandfather (from even before F.Franz was at Bethel) was a "cult" member in the organization until the 1960's when he died, even though my other relatives were (and are) regular JWs, and not cult members. I'm pretty sure that C.Woodworth was a cult member until the 1950's when he died. I know that when they searched out documentation and photos for the Proclaimer's book, they were astounded at the "cult" material still available in Witnesses' archives, including F.Franz himself. And many Witnesses, today, are tempted to look at 8 men exactly the way that Bible Students looked at Russell. The way we defend or dismiss the material from our past history can be an indicator as to whether we too have succumbed to cult thinking. Even the way we defend current material that came out of long-standing traditions of the past can also be an indicator. I can talk to Mormons and Seventh Day Adventists for hours and recognize almost immediately which ones are in a "cult" and which ones aren't by the manner in which they defend Ellen G White or Joseph Smith when glaring problems are pointed out. (Job 31:26-28) 26 If I saw the sun shining Or the moon moving in its splendor; 27 And my heart was secretly enticed, And my mouth kissed my hand in worship of them; 28 Then that would be an error deserving punishment by the judges, For I would have denied the true God above.
  16. 4 points
    I appear to be behind the times here. Mike & Kim I know of from a video I watched of them on YouTube, where they seemed a bit too silly and flippant (perhaps even tipsy?). But their information was lousy, and they were promoting this idea that elders were destroying necessary CSA evidence, when they were really misinterpreting "good practice" counsel from the WTS about record-keeping. Maybe they have done their homework on other videos, but I won't waste my time because I don't trust them based on the random one I watched. P. Asare I have never heard of. John Redwood is related to John Cedars, who is somehow related to Lloyd Evans, as I saw these names on JW Survey. I downloaded that site to read later, but I did read all the headlines from the site, just never got back to it. Average Joe I have never heard of. Bill Bowen is the former elder who put his face behind "Silent Lambs" which intended to expose CSA crimes among JWs. I understand that Barbara Anderson worked with him to get it started and get it named but that Barbara Anderson didn't trust his motives or his personality and backed away from it. (I have read much of Anderson's site, and the name comes up often when I search Google on several different historical and CSA topics.) WiFiBandit sounds very familiar but I do not know from where. (I suspect this is a Jehovahs-Witness forum participant. I don't care much about the work of most ex-JWs for purposes of testing their claims, or defense against their claims, unless I'm convinced that they have done their homework, and are not prone to taking things out of context. For this reason, I have purchased 2 books from M.J.Penton, 1 from C.O.Jonnson, and 2 from E.C.Gruss. (I also have two books from R.Franz that I picked up online as free pdfs. I also picked up a book called Apostles of Denial from archive.org, which is also from E.C.Gruss.) Otherwise, I pretty much ignore current online sources because I think they tend to get their info from other sources anyway, and misinterpret or misrepresent what they said. For this reason I won't bother with those who don't do their own work, when it comes to claims we should test for ourselves. Compared to people who appear to have gone to original sources and documented their work, I'd guess that most of these online personalities are probably just repeating things. Any of them, including the authors I mentioned, might also have had bad motives. We should expect that this taints their own conclusions. But it's worth looking at their work, especially if a lot of it is true, regardless of their own motives or conclusions. Perhaps we'll look at the same evidence and come to a different conclusion.
  17. 4 points
    Since I am a self-proclaimed Barbarian, Billy, I can only assume you are trying to flatter me for some romantic reason. It will NOT work!
  18. 4 points
    In many halls the very library itself can no longer be found. So there are no older books, just a shelf for current (but used) Bibles and Songbooks that folks left accidentally. But it's true that the out of print books are not banned. Just harder to find, such as Aid to Bible Understanding and Commentary on the Letter of James. But if it were not well known which writer wrote a specific book, and it usually isn't, then there was no need to remove those books. The need to replace the Aid book with Insight began in a hurry after R.Franz became known as the head writer, through his own admission in Crisis of Conscience, but most the entries are still exactly verbatim what was in the Aid book. But they still haven't replaced "Choosing the Best Way of Life" and it's still available on the Watchtower Library CD, and wol.jw.org. There are books that make us cringe, and those who ask specific questions about anything prior to 1970 will probably be looked at as if they are losing faith in the organization. Don't try to ask if anyone knows of anything still good in the Finished Mystery book, for example. There is still a lot of good information in some of the books and magazines prior to 1970, but most anything useful has been repeated, or updated/corrected in more recent books and magazines. Also, I have some memos I was going to share here once that showed that in assigning topics, the head of Writing had a kind of rule that every topic would be revisited before 20 years were up. So if a topic hadn't been touched in a while, you might at least see it updated, for example, in 1939, 1958, 1977 (and 1996, 2015 if they still kept the "policy" going). A couple of big changes that make a lot of books up to even 2000 obsolete is the fact that we no longer make a prophecy out of parables and narrative portions of the Bible. This doesn't make the good counsel obsolete, but usually it means that this counsel now applies to everybody, not just a specific class. (i.e., Shulammite class, Haman class, Esther class, Elijah class, Elisha class, Ruth class, Naomi class, Jehu class, Jezebel class, Jeremiah class, Jonadab class, Samaritan class, Prodigal Son's Brother's class, etc.)
  19. 4 points
    All This is perceived with one thing in mind, everyone needs and want an escape goat. Blame it on the other guy. The watchtower has taught the dangers by generation, and to a critic, it hasn’t done enough. Of course, this is the mental state of people believing in perfection. I have no idea why they would think that way since all they have to do is wake up and see the reflection on the mirror. Wisdom seems to be lacking with such cases. Especially when governments or other institutions cannot control the free mind. However, with Epstein, its obvious money talked louder. If Trump got away with how he sexually assaulted women and still became President, it's all about the boys club. The "rich" boys club that is! Anyone else would be strapped to a chair waiting for a lethal injection. Much how some want pedophiles dealt with. Like in some countries, burn them alive! I want to see that person burn, burn, burn! Without thinking, they have turned into agitators instead of justice seekers! Then that blood guilt is with any agitator. 😏 Religious or not!
  20. 4 points
    They are outlines at the assemblies and conventions, but they are so tightly packed that it is barely possible to deviate or ramble. Most convention talks these days are but 10 minutes in length, and that often includes a video. Public talks at the Kingdom Hall are 30 minutes in length. The aim is to follow the outline supplied, but there is more room for expounding, illustrating, personalization, etc. Mess up a Kingdom Hall talk and you may live to do another one. Mess up an assembly talk and you are not likely to be assigned another.
  21. 4 points
    Well, James.... I learned that yes, Manasseh did actually repent and was forgiven by Jehovah. (i.e. there is hope for the rest of us!) How do I know? I saw him with my own eyes. Usually, after living a number of years, we may take stock of ourselves and realize the things that we did not want to believe about ourselves were actually true. We repent and begin to consider how can we make amends. We mellow. How many people are aware of these very personal things that you have revealed about yourself? A lot? A few? I know these were very hurtful things for you. Thank you for letting us know these things. I am glad that your current mate is "the love of your life and your best friend. May you both live for an eternity together in perfection in Jehovah's new world!
  22. 4 points
    Remember the song in the old pink shirt cardboard songbook, that I used to call the "Let's drag the stones to the Pyramid" song? I forget the name ... Bum dee dee BUM de de, BUM BUM BUM dum bum. BUM de de BUM de de bum dum dum dum DUM. Bum de de, Bum de de DUM, DUM .... ... etc. I miss that song ....
  23. 4 points
    I don't know if this is really new, but I learned it's very important to love, and show love to one another because we as heck are going to need it in the future. And I'm talking about true love, the principled kind, not the sentimental kind.
  24. 4 points
    There seems to be myth being addressed in this discussion hence the erroneous and void conclusions. Fact: Rape by definition takes place when force or the threat of force is used to gain sexual penetration, of any kind whatsoever, against a person's will. It is the rapist's use of force against an unwilling victim that makes him a rapist. Thus, a rape victim is not guilty of fornication. Like an incest victim, they may be forced to submit to an act they doesn't want because of the perceived power held over them by another person. In some cases this coercion could be very subtle, but nevertheless, coercion it is. When a person is forced to submit to a rapist out of terror or disorientation, it does not mean that they consent to the act. Consent is based on choice without threat and is active, not passive.
  25. 4 points
    As "Winsider complains of me not citing the source, how about you do the same. He won't criticize opposer's since he believes they deserve every opportunity to get their licks in when attacking the Watchtower. Especially in areas that he seems to support. However, that double standard doesn't fly with me, so post your sources accordingly. 😉
  26. 4 points
    Hmmm. You probably found some good counsel for me on that one. The beauty of some of these places really was impressive to me, especially the Huntington Library (Gardens). And so was the wedding, with "bowers of flowers" and other decorations everywhere. Also, I was not just "secretly" impressed either, as I gladly admitted it out loud. And, of course, I am also secretly impressed that all this "free vacation" for a week, cost me no more than the plane flight, as everything else was paid for -- through no merit of my own. (I paid for the plane ticket because my wife and I were coming out here anyway for an "anniversary trip" -- which mostly means that I am out here installing an automatic "lift" in the back of my parents' car so that my mother doesn't have to push my father's electric wheelchair/scooter up an aluminum ramp at a too steep an angle anymore. [She's afraid to just put it in gear and let it drive up the ramp by itself.] My father usually uses a walker, but for assemblies and other places with a lot of walking, he uses the scooter.)
  27. 4 points
    Outta Here

    Let's Get It On - identify a cult!

    People give their lives for any number of causes without faith in a resurrection. This noble quality of humans is exploited by "cult" leaders regardless of the damage it might do to the individual, and with no thought of benefit to them. Followers are merely pawns. Interestingly, the word "cult" has come to carry a load of meaning and association that has little to do with it's original etymology and derivation. Bit like the word "gay". One current definition that sums up the way many use the word today is "cult = a religion I don't like".
  28. 4 points
    Over the weekend, I was in a circuit way out there in the back hills, and I came to know some of the strange ways of the local elders out there. I learned that when they really got riled at one another, they would spit out out the most spiteful words that they could think of: “May you be assigned to preside in JTR’s congregation!”
  29. 4 points
    No problem Srecko. As long as you know your stupider than me and uneducated about scripture just as much as most people here, We understand each other. 😏
  30. 4 points
  31. 3 points
    Speaker missing to tell some things. Animals has not ability to do things as humans, but if God created them, He incorporated some qualities similar to humans. Or same as to humans but on different level. Searching for food, or even growing and collect food, creating family and offspring, care of them, fight for survive, showing affection to same and other species, etc. Cows give more milk after listening classical music :))) Speaker didn't done enough research on subject. Don't elevate humans to status of gods :)))) Message has same principle, but speaker, i guess, missed to highlight and used The Same Principle and to made Parallel Lesson about same trap in spiritual interaction inside congregations and WT Society.
  32. 3 points
    Bubba Johnson Jr

    who is referred to here?

    Absolutely TTH! I see from your comment that you understand the significance of the heightened understanding of these things. We do not become angry and attack others simply because what is being discussed does not hold any personal interest. However, you are certainly correct about Jesus' words, 'what I say to you, -(let the reader use discernment)*my comment - I say to ALL, keep on the watch!'
  33. 3 points
    JW Insider

    who is referred to here?

    This is true. But then again this will always be true because the end is closer now than at the time we became believers. (Romans 13:11, 12) . . .And do this because you know the season, that it is already the hour for you to awake from sleep, for now our salvation is nearer than at the time when we became believers. 12 The night is well along; the day has drawn near.. . . Since the late 1600's, especially, religions that focus on where we are in terms of chronology and prophecy have claimed we are at the cusp of the Great Tribulation. The Millerite movement apparently produced at least 100,000 people who could be convinced that 1843/1844 was the end. A Millerite named Barbour was able to convince Russell from his updated version of Miller's chronology that Barbour had used to prove 1873/1874 was the end. The Watchtower said that the signs were unmistakable that the last days had begun in 1799 and the Watchtower pointed to heavenly signs in the sun and stars in the early 1800's as proof. The evidence is so overwhelming now, today, that it would seem crazy to deny that we are deep into the last days, and yet we should keep in mind that the evidences seemed just as overwhelming to Miller, Barbour, Russell and others, and probably just as overwhelming to Paul's contemporaries. And we truly HAVE been on the cusp of the Great Tribulation ever since 70 C.E. when the first part of the prophecy about the destruction of Jerusalem was fulfilled. Remember that Jesus said that "immediately after those days, the sun would be darkened" etc. As Peter said, it could be 1,000 years off, and yet we are still to live as if the parousia could be within our lifetime. If we happen to survive to that time, we were on the cusp, and if we happen to die before that time, we were on the cusp, because our next waking second after our death, should be in the resurrection.
  34. 3 points
    Oh, very well. Sign up for her as your ‘anointed’ source, if you like. You two deserve each other.
  35. 3 points
    In all of 85% content and in all of 15% content, what i like is honesty and sincerity, everything else is questionable and not impressed me any more :)) When You or any other JW member speak (preach) how we people have to be honest, good, love our neighbor, not to kill, not to lie or about some other moral quality i can Upvote for that. If you mean on JW Theology..? .... that is something else and it deserve Downvotes many times. ....... And You already know this :))
  36. 3 points
    whaaaaaaatttttttt!???
  37. 3 points
    What Witness of Jehovah could not think of their brothers in Russia when reviewing Philippians, this week’s Bible reading? The imprisoned Paul writes: “Now I want you to know, brothers, that my situation has actually turned out for the advancement of the good news, so that my prison bonds for the sake of Christ have become public knowledge among all the Praetorian Guard and all the rest. Now most of the brothers in the Lord have gained confidence because of my prison bonds, and they are showing all the more courage to speak the word of God fearlessly.” (Philippians 1:12-14) It is the case with Witnesses in Russia, isn’t it? They are holding up pretty well, by all reports—it can be seen in the public support they give to ones punished by the state for their worship of God. As in the first century, “most of the brothers in the Lord have gained confidence,” trial-some though their circumstances are. We are proud of them, and even wonder whether we would do so well ourselves. ‘Don’t think that you can do it on your own strength,’ comes the answer, ‘and you will do fine.’ The anti-cultist mastermind, Alexander Dvorkin, did not foresee it happening this way. Just after the ban went into effect in April 2017, he was “absolutely convinced that after a few years, the number of members of the organization will decrease dramatically, two or three times, because, when one cuts off its financial foundation, its ability to freely, without hindrance, recruit other people, to rent large halls and so on, then, in fact, people will lose interest and will very quickly disperse.” Now, two years is not “just a few years,” but it is not so far apart. He did not say “generations.” He expected his results rather quickly, and it is not turning out that way at all. One is reminded of Satan’s taunt: “Is it for nothing that Job has feared God? Have you not put up a protective hedge around him and his house and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his livestock has spread out in the land. But, for a change, stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your very face.” (Job 1:9-11) It isn’t working out that way. Our brothers in Russia are doing us proud. Human rights advocates widely predicted that this would happen—it is not a circumstance solely of Jehovah’s Witnesses, but of people in general who are concerned with spiritual things. Similar fortitude is shown in other faiths as well. It is Dvorkin who, fleshly man that he is, totally misjudges the power of spiritual things to motivate. “But a physical man does not accept the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know them, because they are examined spiritually,” says the apostle again at 1 Corinthians 1:14. He drinks too much of his own Kool-Aid, and thus, when things fail to turn out as he anticipated, it is due to his own self-deluded assumptions. Dvorkin is playing the role outlaws of religion have played from before he was born, using state apparatus to squash enemies, and doing so under a guise of People’s Protector. His premise is wrong: that individual Witnesses are being “manipulated” by an evil corporate outside class. Instead, the ‘outside’ class IS them, merely in the organized form that members know is necessary to best implement the faith that they have chosen. They are not like the munchkins of his imagination, delighted that the wicked witch is destroyed. They recognize his attack as the attack on Christianity that it is. We see this all the time—enemies impose their own standards on spiritual things, and then draw wrong conclusions when things do not turn out as they have anticipated. It is seen when they make the self-determination that religious things cannot change, as secular and scientific things do, and that should Witnesses see that some teachings have “flip-flopped,” they will be outraged at having been “misled.” How can people be so nuts? They change all the time—it is called “tacking” and the “ever brightening light”—completely above board and nobody has ever said otherwise. Still, the changes that are made are analogous to details, roughly akin to looking at the map anew and rereading it. It happens all the time with science. Somehow, physical people have decreed that it cannot happen with spiritual things. Of course it can. It is their own presumption of everything religious being autocratic, ironclad, and unyielding, that stymies them. It may not be so fluid—‘the each his own!—as the world they have chosen, but it is far from inflexible. Moveover, the essential building blocks of the faith—defusing the ‘immortality’ of the soul, establishing the non-Trinitarian nature of God, the reason as to why he allows suffering and evil, along with the Name that he says he wants sanctified—these things have been firmly in place for over a century. The Russian brothers are doing very well, thank you very much—“in no way being frightened by [their] opponents. This very thing is a proof of destruction for them, but of salvation for you; and this is from God.” (Philippians 1:28) “Surely the people are but green grass. The green grass dries up, The blossom withers, But the word of our God endures forever.” (Isaiah 40:8) So. Dvorkin thinks he will kill off the green grass, like a dog peeing on it? Time will tell. So far his dream is not coming true. photo: persecution 2, by dr zoidberg
  38. 3 points
    Before deciding to date it is important you pay close attention to the person you are interested in. How do they treat others? Are they spiritually mature? How do they handle money matters? How do they handle responsibility? What are their strengths? What are their weaknesses? There is never a reason to settle for less. We don’t need to look for perfection, but when it is clear that they require a ton of assembly or when they don’t have very important qualities or skills needed to make a marriage a success, we would be wise to hold off from pursing a courtship. Normally, when purchasing an item we do research to make sure we are getting the best quality. Why would we do any less when it comes to something as life changing and important as choosing a marriage mate. Also, if I am aware that I have a ton of assembly required and lack in many areas of life, why not work on those things first before trying to date. If we really like someone we should want them to have the best, right? “Patience is the key”. (See YPA Vol 2 Chapter 1)
  39. 3 points
    Really? Everything possible must be tried in order to make a cult out of the U.S.Marines in as short a time as possible. It includes the idea that they can claim authority from Almighty God, Jehovah. And notice the "Ezekiel" video playing, too. I have a little more respect for the ones who are not participating.
  40. 3 points
    There are people who have spent their whole lives in prison ... and when they get out ... freedom scares them so badly, they commit more crime for the sole reason to be convicted and GO BACK to prison, where they are surrounded with what they have become comfortable with. As a small boy, I maintained that Santa Clause was real, long after I knew he was not .... because although I did not believe in Santa, I believed in presents! Truth scares many people who have integrated a web of lies into their lives ... and they resist it and vilify it as it shakes the web and they are afraid of falling away. So ... they wait until the spider comes, and eats them, secure in the knowledge of their noble sacrifice.
  41. 3 points
    This is a reference to a Caleb and Sophia video which would be seen as praiseworthy were it for any other cause. If Sophia had had an epiphany and donated her ice cream money to the ‘world hunger fund,’ or the ‘world peace fund,’ or the ‘save the planet fund’ or the ‘animal rescue fund’ or almost any charitable fund, the video would be lauded. It represents training a child that not everything is about her, and that used to be seen as a good thing. It is only because the malcontents here despise the Witness organization dedicated to the relief of ‘spiritual hunger’ that this video is so attacked. Were it for anything else, it would be lauded.
  42. 3 points
    Srecko Sostar

    THE TRINITY

    I truly believe that kids are great. And how they are sincere little people. In comparison to "mature", "spiritual" people, like You or me, or @James Thomas Rook Jr., @Anna and @JW Insider you had mentioned. We all here, can be or not have to be "spiritual" by your' or someone else Measurement Tool , but more important question is: Are we always Sincere ... like children??!!
  43. 3 points
    Anna

    Kingdom Songs

    You played both songs magnificently, JW Insider. I wish I could contribute to this thread with an instrument or even song, but alas I do not play anything, and my voice is nothing special. I wish I had listened to my mum and learned to play the piano, but alas, I was more interested in running through the fields and climbing trees to read a book. HOWEVER, I do think I have some musical talent though, that was just never channeled (lol, lol) and I love singing and music of all sorts (in the classical department Mozart is my favourite, especially his operas, but then I also like many of the groups and bands from the 80' up to the present. I discovered a talented young rock band not long ago; "Greta van Fleet" sorry, I digress, this is supposed to be about kingdom songs). I wish that the friends were more into singing and playing instruments, it seem that it was quite common in years past where brothers and sisters would get together to play and sing Kingdom Songs. Trying to get them to do this now is like pulling teeth. At least in America it seems. Maybe this is why the organization has introduced the "original" songs, which sound more like something younger people would like. I remember as a young teenager getting together with friends who played the guitar and we would sit around the campfire, cook bratwursts and sing "tramp" songs, a kind of folk genre. This original song reminds me of a "tramp" song:
      Hello guest!
    There are a few older ones, in our hall in their late 70's and older who remember the days when they would get together to sing. One brother in particular (he is 94) could have sang professionally but he didn't chose that path. I can tell his voice was amazing at one time, because despite his age he still sounds great. I try to do a sing song gathering every other month in our house, and it's so much fun once everyone relaxes a bit. I got quite frustrated with some of the younger ones (the under 60's) at one time, but discovered the beauty of wine or bourbon. Everyone seems much more cooperative once they've had a few. I also grow mint for Mojito. Whatever it takes! I apologize, I know the intention of this topic was to post music, and not my blabbings...
  44. 3 points
    Hard to get anything past me... I type with TWO fingers! It would go faster if I removed the finger-tip rubber chicken heads.
  45. 3 points
    The seventh will be the ticket. You know how it works with seven. Rework your scenario to put us on the seventh right now—for example, expand one into an A and a B part—and you are golden.
  46. 3 points
    This is not a reply to anyone specifically, just some musings in response to some of the comments here. I suppose it's not too much of an unreasonable concept to have a measure of confidence in imperfect humans, who all err and make mistakes. Without confidence in others, it would be a crazy world, even crazier than it is now and absolutely nothing would get done. Even when we have been disappointed over and over, we still check what the weatherman has to say about tomorrow's weather. I think maybe the word "complete" confidence should be omitted though when referring to any human, including the GB. Surely complete trust/confidence only belongs to God. The GB cannot ensure our salvation, only God can. (Do not put your trust in princes nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation Ps 146:3) We cannot question God, and quite rightly so of course. But we should be able to question a human, a prophet, or an angel for that matter. The story about the “man of the true God” in 1 Kings ch.13 highlights the seriousness of questioning (making sure) very well. In Israelite times people needed to distinguish between a true prophet and a false one. There were plenty of false ones, and they were exposed by Jehovah. Today, we need to question in order to determine who is false and who is not. (The term prophet that I am referring to is a spokesperson for God, not someone who predicts). The Insight book says this in part regarding true and false prophets: “The true prophet would speak in Jehovah’s name; the things foretold would come to pass (De 18:20-22); and his prophesying must promote true worship, being in harmony with God’s revealed word and commandments (De 13:1-4). The last requirement was probably the most vital and decisive, for an individual might hypocritically use God’s name, and by coincidence, his prediction might see fulfillment. But the true prophet was not solely or even primarily a prognosticator, as has been shown. Rather, he was an advocate of righteousness, and his message dealt primarily with moral standards and their application. He expressed God’s mind on matters. (Isa 1:10-20; Mic 6:1-12) Hence, it was not necessary to wait perhaps for years or generations to determine whether the prophet was true or false by fulfillment of a prediction. If his message contradicted God’s revealed will and standards, he was false". So, we come to the crux of the matter. We should be able to question the prophet/spokesperson/GB, to make sure that what he says does not conflict with "Jehovah’s righteous standards and mind on matters" as was verified by Geoffrey Jackson in his "if we gave wrong direction, then everyone who has the Bible would see that it was the wrong direction" statement. So unquestioning obedience and "complete" trust, in my opinion, are not the right choice of words to use in connection with the GB. And this is the primary reason for the topic, not to suspiciously distrust the GB, but to remind ourselves, by discussing the topic in depth, that there are boundaries and stipulations that have to be met before we can have confidence in, and/or obey any single expression made by the prophet/GB/FDS. And these boundaries and stipulations are set by Jehovah himself. Personally, I find nothing wrong with speculation, as long as it is not presented as fact. Going beyond what is written. This happens when an interpretation is applied to any seemingly ambiguous scripture. Where to find the balance? Since no one can interpret scripture without the possibility of making an error, how about only sticking to what is completely clear, (besides not conflicting with other scriptures), and admitting anything else is speculation. That would be a good start. I have no qualms telling anyone who wants to know my opinion on the revised understanding of the “generation”, that I believe it is speculative, and may or may not be true, and that we will know the true answer probably not until after Armageddon...... In saying all this, I do not think that the reasons for distrusting the GB that have been posted here by some are valid enough reasons. I think completely distrusting the GB is as unreasonable as completely trusting them.
  47. 3 points
  48. 3 points
    This is a good set of points. (I changed the bullets to numbers for discussion.) Do you think that all of them have to be true at once? Or can 5 of the 7 bullets be true? Or only 2 of the 7? Actually it appears that #1 through #6 are characteristic "ingredients" or features that will ultimately lead to #7 which is the actual cult product. That product becomes a support structure that can continue to support and enhance and defend the features of #1 through #6. But there is also the question of a spectrum rather than black and white labeling. Within that spectrum there are variables for intention, motivation, flexibility, freedom, independent thinking, perceived spiritual value, etc. I've kept an interest in this topic for years. In fact, at Bethel I tried to study with some Moonies, who seemed receptive (they weren't). I did it mostly to get into their "community" warehouse, where they offered me crackers, milk, and fruit nectar (and more publications). Since then I've had a couple of LDS elders come by the house and make 4 return visits to try to study with me (I would point out things I found on anti-LDS sites, but woudn't study with them of course). And, working right near the NYC Scientology center in midtown I also took their little Bethel-like presentation tour a couple of times, and even met David Miscavige (from a short distance away) and heard him talk about how they helped 9/11 responders. On May 20, 2011, I spoke at length with a Harold Camping follower who gave me an entire CD/DVD full of proof that the rapture would be on May 21, 2011. I have a cousin who is a staunch Seventh Day Adventist, so I also studied as much of the early historical information about them as I could to try to convince her that the Witnesses had the more correct Adventist path. After trying to study them closely, I decided there was a little bit of "cult" in all of them. Of course, I mean in the pejorative sense that people use the term cult --based mostly on those bullet points you offered. It's a stretch, but one could even defend or explain why one might call the Catholic Church a cult, because there are several of your bullet point features that are often seen in the lives and activities of some Catholics. The same might go for various political ideologies, even so broad as the United States Republican or Democrat parties, or various others -- all in the pejorative sense. But there are also nearly neutral or even nearly positive senses in which scholars use the term cult. Scholars can also look at the history of various religious groups and can speak of the cult of Yahweh in Israel, or the cult of John the Baptist, or the cult of primitive Christianity. This is not intended pejoratively. It's mostly used to help one realize the context in which a religious group survives and "cultivates" itself in a setting where they might be outnumbered by other larger religious groups surrounding them.
  49. 3 points
    Things like this are a good test of peoples' integrity. ESPECIALLY when the test has a simple YES or NO answer, and they are aware that they will answer to Almighty God, for lying. Honest questions deserve honest answers, and unless life or liberty are at stake, are appropriate. Especially in a discussion room where credibility is so very important ... as we are casually discussing life and death matters. so here goes..... 1.) BillyTheKid46, ... are you now or have you ever been one of Jehovah's Witnesses ? ... and, 2.) are you now, or have ever been a Watchtower Lawyer, or anything similar? 3.) Space Merchant: Are you now or have you ever been one of Jehovah's Witnesses? Working on the exchange of information theory of Steven Covey, in "The Seven Habits of Successful People", about emotional "bank accounts" ... that it is immoral to try and make a withdrawal without having enough "deposits" to cover it ... please consider all the personal information about myself I have freely given here, to try and contribute to general understanding ... including my real name, and real picture, ad nauseaum, as enough "deposit" to cover the request for a withdrawal from YOUR emotional bank accounts, for information not already volunteered. Of course this only works between men of integrity, and will be ridiculed and/or ignored by weasels.
  50. 3 points
    22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.




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