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  1. 7 points
    Of course, there was that "God-damned" snake in the grass back in Eden. It was cursed to crawl on the ground and lick the dust with its [forked] tongue. Then there were those pigs that allowed themselves to be possessed by demons, and were driven to commit suicide. Certain animals might have listened to communication from God to be able to receive a name from Adam. The same could be said for the animals that listened to communication from God to get on Noah's ark. Or for ravens to find Elijah to bring him food. Or, perhaps even a big fish who nearly snacked on Jonah. And there's that special relationship between Jehovah and Leviathan and Behemoth. God gives animals "meat in due season" (food at the proper time): (Psalm 104:27) . . .All of them wait for you To give them their food in its season. And a donkey evidently saved a man's life by ascertaining an invisible angel. On a serious note, I think most people agree that many persons have an unbalanced view of pets. But it's also easy to get unbalanced in the direction of disdaining pets and animals. Remember that Jehovah himself rejoices at his works which obviously includes his many interactions with animals according to the context of Psalm 104. (Psalm 104:28-31) . . .What you give them, they gather. When you open your hand, they are satisfied with good things. 29 When you hide your face, they are disturbed. If you take away their spirit, they die and return to the dust. 30 If you send out your spirit, they are created, And you renew the surface of the ground. 31 The glory of Jehovah will last forever. Jehovah will rejoice in his works.
  2. 5 points
    JW Insider

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    That's true, but it would not attract as much attention. Rutherford had been a political marketer before following Russell/WT/Bible Students. This is why he would ADV/ADV/ADV. And why gimmicks like putting David and Abraham on a property deed were important to him. This is why he used the title "Judge." But I think it was Covington who figured out that he could do much better in the courts if we agreed to be recognized as a religion. Religious rights were easier to fight for than unspecified rights or civil rights of a group who would otherwise be seen only as "peddlers." Tresspassing laws were decidedly against peddlers, but the United States was being recognized in the twentieth century as much more amenable to a variety of religions, and we weren't the only religion asking for (and getting) expanded rights.
  3. 4 points
    You seem to be indicating that I don’t think there are “true”, authentic anointed in the organization. Have I ever said that, or have I repeatedly drawn attention to their existence among JWs? Unless….you are referring only to the GB as “true” anointed and disregard all other anointed, which wouldn’t surprise me. I do believe the GB were anointed, but they have lost any Holy Spirit they had once received. THEY now direct their false priesthood to carry out “covert extremism” to shun those who will not accept their tainted version of “truth”. As my comment brought out, it is they who should be shunned. It is very sad that you joke about God’s word and the man who spoke them.
  4. 4 points
    Anna

    2019 Annual Meeting wishes

    Thank you for your expressions. I wanted to respond a little sooner than this but I ran out of time. Here are my thoughts on some of the things you mention. Just my two cents 😀. I used to think the same way, but just because it says update, doesn't mean the actual content is changed (like different wording of a scripture for example) but it is more to do with technical updates to make things compatible with constant changes and updates in the way various operating systems work, similar to windows system, Firefox etc. It is normal for any websites to do that. If there are any doctrinal or organizational changes, then we are usually made aware of them in a WT study. That would be a cool thing for those who like to dig deep.I noticed sometimes there are references to further reading, but not often. I don't know, but perhaps because everything is being simplified, sort of like we've already researched all the subjects, so no need to keep bringing it up, time to move on kind of thing. The publications with all those references are still available for anyone to read and research though. I understand some of the things you are saying regarding this subject. I especially agree with your last two points. I suppose striving for hours is an incentive some people need. It would be great if the friends would put in pioneer hours without actually pioneering. But we mustn't forget that if a publisher signs up to be a pioneer, then they know what they are doing, they know they are committing themselves to a certain promise. The problem is why are they doing it. Is it because they need an incentive, or is it because they like the title? If I am not mistaken, there is no specific regulation which says you can't do those things you have described. For example when going door to door in a remote village in one Easter European country, the brothers do not wear a tie because the locals would get confused and suspicious, and not be open to discussions. It is always a good idea to adapt our preaching according to local circumstances. We should never be stuck on just one way. With the counting...I read somewhere that JWs keep the best and most reliable records. If there is any kind of worldly survey carried out, for example with regard to the numbers (members) of a particular religion, they always seem to trust the JW numbers the most. Haha, that would be funny. I don't think that will ever happen because it's too judgmental. But I understand your point! I think it's obvious that the reaction to a new Bible would be very positive. Therefor I don't think this was so much a request for information, but a confirmation of a "work well done". However the questions you propose, are on a different level and would require an awful lot of work sifting through the submissions. But I agree. I think JW Insider mentioned something about a "suggestion box" option on our website. Or even a "ask questions" box. I think both would be a very good idea. At the moment as you say, it is left up to the CO's to give some kind of report. But the thing is, many friends do not like to bring an issue up which they think might be viewed controversial or even rebellious. I know I don't. But if these comments could be made anonymously on the website, then I am sure the organization would get a much better idea of the state of the congregations and friends. The problem is some kind of mechanism would have to be put into effect that prevented just ANYONE from commenting. That way people who were merely trouble makers (opposers etc.) wouldn't clog up the whole site, or give the wrong impression that the friends were having these problems, whereas it would really be ex- witnesses. To be honest we don't have that problem in my congregation. There are many excellent auxiliary answers given. I suppose it depends on the congregation. Although we are all united, each congregation has its unique style/character. That's why you get some people "shopping" for a congregation they like, if they are not happy in the one they are at. I agree completely! I always go to sleep when they do that. I don't see the point. I think that this is already going on to a certain point isn't it? Also I know that things have been simplified where there are no longer room cleaners, each person must clean their own room for example. I think something like that exists in the USA. https://jjha.community/about/ But I don't think it is organized by the society. Yes. Don't you just love it when an older single brother with no children tries to give you counsel about yours? Oh yes, the notorious beard issue! 🐵 A few weeks ago, in my mum's congregation, a young ministerial servant decided to grow a beard. My mum told me that the elders told him that if he wants to keep on carrying the mikes he will have to shave the beard off. This is in a country where beards are socially acceptable, and in some congregations there are elders with beards. Not many, but I know one personally. I told my mum that usually it is up to the body of elders to decide because they should know the territory well and know whether it would offend an outsider or not. She then told me that 1. my dad (an elder) wasn't told about it, and 2. there is absolutely no aversion to beards by the public as many people wear one. I asked her if this young brother was a "rebellious" type. She said not at all. Logically, he must have been qualified in order to become a min. servant. So as you can see, there is already a problem because certain elders have taken it upon themselves to decide on the matter without consulting the whole body. Who knows, these elders may not like beards, so it becomes personal, rather than theocratic. They have the Co's visit right now, so she told me she would let me know what happens. The other thing is, which I find odd, is that apparently if he shaves it off, they won't address the issue (!) I feel like telling the brother, don't shave it off, because this issue needs to be handled properly first. And once it's handled properly, and they still ask him to shave it off, then that is a different matter. As regards the photos, yes, I agree, on the one hand we are told in the WT that beards are ok in some cultures, but then on the other hand shaving a beard off is used as an example of spiritual progress. It confuses people. (P.S. Quite a large number of elders I know grow a beard while on vacation, and don't mind posting pictures on Instagram or FB, so they are not hiding it, but then once they go back to the meeting they shave it off). I will comment on the doctrinal part next time. (when I have more time).
  5. 4 points
    TrueTomHarley

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    Nobody but nobody has “apostates” like Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is almost as though I am proud of them. Every NT writer wrote about opposition and apostasy. If it happened then, it should happen now. What if there was no opposition today? Wouldn’t you have to wonder why? Since Witnesses do not seek to evade taxes, they pay into social & police services to a greater proportion than most groups. Since they put into practice Bible principles that improve lives, they draw upon those services to a much lesser degree. They are honest. They don’t resort to violence, either, in contrast to the majority who will when the cause is deemed right. It should be taken as more evidence that what Witnesses have is the truth. It would not be so determinedly opposed were that not the case. The opposition to them is hugely disproportional to their “offenses.”
  6. 4 points
    I guess the first point I could address is how someone with serious unresolved questions and concerns about a couple of our teachings could still participate in promoting our publications and our meetings to interested persons. Won't those persons be faced with unresolved questions too? This gets to the claim by some that 85 percent of what we present is not worth it, and 15 percent is worth it, but that 15 percent is valuable enough to ignore the 85 percent. If those were the real numbers then making a convert would be very hard to justify. And in any case we would always have to spend a lot of time telling our Bible students that there are a lot of things we don't understand ourselves. But the numbers aren't that bad, because we really don't spend the amount of time on the areas where more people have unresolved questions. For example, let's just look at the two magazines that were common to many of the carts today. One is the Watchtower No.3 2019, and the other is the Awake! No.2 2019. The Awake! has the cover is "Six Lessons Children Need to Learn." There are short articles on Self-Control, Humility, Resilience, Responsibility, Adult Guidance, and the Need for Moral Values. I am critical of a lot of things, but I found every single word to be well written and useful. It makes a nicely presented way to discuss such important topics with children. Or it just makes it simple to keep a prioritized list of ideas in a parent's mind to remember as they come up. And all of it leads to the fact that Bible principles are the foundation of these lessons, even if might seem at first like mundane lessons about the amount of time spent on entertainment media. So on to the Watchtower. The basic questions that religion should answer are the same questions that people ask all over the world. They are the questions that don't really overlap with science, and although they might overlap a bit with "philosophy" it's really the place of true religion to show why the Bible's view gives the best and most satisfying answers. These are the questions of "What is the meaning of life?" "Is God to blame for suffering?" "What happens when we die?" Those are the same questions called "Life's Big Questions" on the back of the Awake! So the Watchtower starts out with an article on "The Sad Reality of Death." Nothing questionable or inappropriate here. Science is mentioned as a possible source of answers, here, and in the next article "The Search For Long Life." The idea is clear and obvious, that "We are Designed to Live" just as the next article shows. Again, I see nothing that any naysayer, except atheists, might find wrong or questionable. In fact, up to this point, atheists might still be following along, too. After all, it does not overwhelm with scriptures, but uses them in unobtrusive ways. Now the question of "Why Do We Grow Old And Die" gets into the Biblical aspects, on page 8 of 15. It's all clearly the correct Biblical answer, however. Granted, some religious and science-oriented religious persons can take Adam & Eve as allegorical in some way, which is common. But even so, the rest of the Bible clearly uses the exact example as the explanation about death on earth. And therefore page 10 begins discussing the hope, when death is conquered. There is a very clear explanation of the Ransom here. Using Scriptures throughout this article. There is a paragraph or two on "When" but it is not done with the idea that "we know something about the date that no one else knows." Someone might wonder why it only mentions "millions" being resurrected, but this isn't said in such a way that we are telling people that it won't be billions, or thousands; it's just presented as a way of stating a happy hope in the resurrection. It mentions the "last days" but exactly the way the scriptures use the expression. In detailing "How Can You Have More Than This Life?" on page 12, the appeal is to those who want to see a better earth, and who would like to live forever under much better conditions. It's an invitation to learn more. And the next article shows how the road to that better life will produce side effects of contentment, more satisfying priorities, better marriages, and even better health (overall) in this life. I find BOTH of these entire magazines to be 100 percent valuable, well written, and they touch on no unresolved or unresolvable questions. And we all know that some of our talks and other publications cover this same material exactly as these articles do, sometimes with more examples, more verses, more detail -- but the same ideas. We are offering exactly what people should be looking for, satisfactory answers to important questions. When an interested person gets to all the meetings, they will soon discover that time is spent on the meaning of Ezekiel, for example, the history of the organization, and a lot of emphasis on urgency in preaching on account of the times we're living in, and the overall timing of Jehovah's purpose. Some of this material will likely result in questions that they will find ways to resolve, or else just accept and wait for a resolution in time. But it's not the gist of our preaching and disciple-making. I think most people who come into the organization will remember the Big Questions, and that those were the primary reasons they joined with us. Those questions are answered in a more appealing and satisfying way than other religions are answering them. And we back up our answers with the Bible. Our teachings regarding war, neutrality, Trinity, hellfire, paradise earth, the challenge to Jehovah's sovereignty, etc., will make even more sense to interested persons when they remember that the first attraction was to the way the Bible answered those big questions. Those were the questions that build a primary foundation around the teaching of God's Purpose, Eternal Life, the Ransom, the Resurrection, etc. So even if chronology and some of the specific prophetic interpretations can result in unresolved questions, for now, it's not like this needs to be such a big part of Witness thinking. We can participate in every major aspect of our worship with joy and without being overly concerned with these unresolved questions. And when they finally are resolved, I'm sure we'll see them as relatively unimportant compared to the big things.
  7. 4 points
    This is a reference to a Caleb and Sophia video which would be seen as praiseworthy were it for any other cause. If Sophia had had an epiphany and donated her ice cream money to the ‘world hunger fund,’ or the ‘world peace fund,’ or the ‘save the planet fund’ or the ‘animal rescue fund’ or almost any charitable fund, the video would be lauded. It represents training a child that not everything is about her, and that used to be seen as a good thing. It is only because the malcontents here despise the Witness organization dedicated to the relief of ‘spiritual hunger’ that this video is so attacked. Were it for anything else, it would be lauded.
  8. 4 points
  9. 4 points
    Why not ask Brother Morris, then the issue is resolved. Everything else is just embarrassing! April 19th is our MEMORIAL ceremony ❤ ♥ ☼ ♥ ❤ Thank you....
  10. 4 points
    I don’t admire him. I use him. And I think he is okay with that. I also have sought to understand him. If anything, I admire you & and a few other very similar personas, for the tenacity to defend the current governing arrangement, which I also defend. But admiring or not admiring has little to do with anything. If my goal is to admire and not admire and to demonstrate my loyalty or lack thereof, then I hang out exclusively with the real flesh and blood people of my circuit, who all like me, barring perhaps a few who think me a windbag. (but how can they be faulted for that?) He spills a lot of dirt. I would never spill the dirt that he does. And lest John B start frothing over this, it must be pointed out that everyone everywhere in every field of activity has some dirt that they could spill. It will always be a question of whether they choose to do it or not.) But the fact is that he is not going away. So how do I come to grips with that? Should I simply repeat ‘Liar! liar!’ when the tone of his writing does not suggest lying? Notice what I said (and you quoted): I didn’t say that his information was accurate. I said that HE deems it accurate. I didn’t say that John was right. I said that there were times when HE thought he was right. There is much I like about JWI, but also much I don’t like. I think he is too swayed by the pretentions of journalism that the cockroaches disappear when you shine the bright light of journalism upon them. I think they just go somewhere else, leaving the illusion that something has been solved, which presently enough generally turns out to be but an illusion. I hate to say it. I really really really really hate to say it, but I think someone I might truly like in person is @James Thomas Rook Jr.if you could only muzzle him, which seems unlikely at present. He is unpretentious, and that is a quality I am drawn to. The Internet is not the congregation. You cannot make it behave as though it is. Brothers look like fools when they insist upon it. In a sense of strict organizational loyalty, none of us should be here, you no more (or less) than JWI. (or me) I hope that the brothers enjoy what I write, but rarely are they my main intended audience. Nor, when I address villains, are they my intended audience. It is the unaligned & often misinformed people that I seek to address, and the relative success or futility of this will probably never be known.) To that end, I sometimes distance myself from certain loyal ones who declare their loyalty (often with heat) but otherwise bring little to the table. (and I don’t think of you as one of them- you bring plenty to the table) In real life, I would hang out with them. But the Internet is not real life.
  11. 4 points
    RECHERCHONS DES PERLES SPIRITUELLES - SEMAINE DU 18 FEVRIER 2019 - ROMAINS 7-8.docx RECHERCHONS DES PERLES SPIRITUELLES - SEMAINE DU 18 FEVRIER 2019 - ROMAINS 7-8.pdf JOYAUX DE LA PAROLE DE DIEU Recherchons des perles spirituelles (8 min) : Romains 7-8 Romains 8:6 : Quelle différence y a-t-il entre « fixer sa pensée sur la chair » et « fixer sa pensée sur l’esprit » ? (w17.06 3) « En effet, fixer sa pensée sur la chair mène à la mort, mais fixer sa pensée sur l’esprit mène à la vie et à la paix » Celui qui pense à la chair se concentre sur ses désirs et ses penchants imparfaits ; il parle constamment des choses de la chair et s’en délecte. Celui qui pense à l’esprit donne la priorité aux choses qui sont en accord avec Dieu et ses pensées ; il se laisse diriger par l’esprit saint. « Penser à la chair » conduit à la mort ; « penser à l’esprit » conduit à la vie et à la paix – w17 06 Avant d’effectuer une action, bonne ou mauvaise, nous y avons forcément pensé. Celui qui fixe constamment son attention sur les choses de la chair ne tarde pas à développer une attitude mentale axée uniquement sur elles. Celles-ci finissent en général par avoir entièrement prise sur ses opinions, ses centres d’intérêt et ce qu’il affectionne. “ Penser à la chair [...] signifie la mort ” — spirituelle aujourd’hui et physique dans un proche avenir. Pourquoi ? “ Parce que penser à la chair signifie inimitié contre Dieu, car elle n’est pas soumise à la loi de Dieu, et même, elle ne peut pas l’être. Ceux donc qui vivent selon la chair ne peuvent plaire à Dieu. ” “ Penser à l’esprit signifie vie ”, la vie éternelle dans l’avenir, “ et paix ”, la paix intérieure et la paix avec Dieu dès aujourd’hui. Dans la pratique, qu’implique “ penser à l’esprit ” ? Fixer constamment son attention sur les choses de l’esprit de manière à développer une attitude mentale axée sur elles. Notre façon de penser est alors “ soumise à la loi de Dieu ” et s’harmonise avec la sienne. Ainsi, lorsque se présente une tentation, nous n’avons aucun doute quant à la conduite à adopter. Nous sommes poussés vers le bon choix, un choix guidé par l’esprit de Dieu. Il est donc essentiel de fixer nos pensées sur les choses de l’esprit. Pour y parvenir, ‘ mobilisons nos facultés mentales pour l’action ’, mettons au centre de notre vie des activités spirituelles régulières, comme la prière, la lecture et l’étude de la Bible, les réunions et la prédication Ne permettons pas aux choses de la chair d’être une source de distraction. En pensant aux choses de l’esprit, nous continuerons à marcher selon l’esprit. Cela nous vaudra des bénédictions, car penser à l’esprit signifie vie et paix - TG2011 15/11 p14 §15-18 Etre une personne spirituelle n’est pas une simple question de convenance personnelle ou de tendance naturelle. Il s’agit en réalité d’une question de vie ou de mort. En quel sens quelqu’un de spirituel reçoit-il ‘ vie et paix ’ ? D’après la Bible, une telle personne est, dès à présent, en paix avec elle-même ainsi qu’avec Dieu et, dans l’avenir, elle recevra la vie éternelle en récompense. – TG2007 1/8 p4 Romains 8:26, 27 : Comment Jéhovah peut-il répondre aux « gémissements qui ne sont pas exprimés » ?(w09 15/11 7 § 20). « Pareillement, l’esprit aussi vient à notre aide quand nous sommes faibles ; car le problème, c’est que nous ne savons pas toujours ce qu’il nous faut demander dans nos prières, mais lorsque nos gémissements ne sont pas exprimés, l’esprit lui-même intercède en notre faveur. 27 Et celui qui examine les cœurs sait quelle est l’intention de l’esprit, parce que c’est selon la volonté de Dieu qu’il intercède en faveur des saints ». 20 Il peut nous arriver de ne pas savoir quoi dire dans nos prières personnelles. “ Le problème, explique Paul, le voici : ce pour quoi nous devons prier comme nous en avons besoin, nous ne le savons pas, mais l’esprit [saint] lui-même sollicite pour nous avec des gémissements qui n’ont pas été exprimés. Cependant, celui qui scrute les cœurs [c’est-à-dire Dieu] sait quelle est l’intention de l’esprit. ” (Rom. 8:26, 27). Jéhovah a fait consigner dans les Écritures de nombreuses prières. Il considère que ces requêtes inspirées correspondent à ce que nous aurions souhaité lui demander, et il les exauce. Dieu nous connaît intimement et il comprend les sentiments que les écrivains de la Bible ont décrits sous l’impulsion de l’esprit. Jéhovah répond à nos supplications quand l’esprit “ sollicite ”, autrement dit intercède, pour nous. Mais à mesure que notre connaissance biblique s’affine, nous trouvons plus facilement les mots pour exprimer nos requêtes. – TG2009 15/11 p7§20 En Romains 8:26, 27, Paul explique que les serviteurs de Dieu ne savent pas toujours exactement quoi demander comme ils en ont besoin quand ils prient. Cependant, Dieu sait qu’ils désirent que sa volonté soit faite. Il sait aussi de quoi ses serviteurs ont besoin. Par le passé, Dieu a fait consigner dans sa Parole de nombreuses prières inspirées, qui expriment sa volonté ou sa pensée à leur égard. Il agrée donc ces prières inspirées comme étant ce que son peuple aimerait dire et ce pour quoi il aimerait prier, et en conséquence il les exauce. Dieu connaît les cœurs sincères et il connaît aussi la “ pensée ” des choses qu’il a fait dire à son esprit par l’intermédiaire des rédacteurs de la Bible. Il sait “ quelle est l’intention [la pensée] de l’esprit ” lorsque celui-ci “ sollicite ”, ou intercède, pour eux. - it-2 p524-525 Nos gémissements intérieurs demeurent souvent inexprimés parce que nous ne comprenons pas totalement la situation dans laquelle nous nous trouvons ou parce que nous ne savons pas que dire à Jéhovah. C’est dans ces moments-là que l’esprit saint peut intercéder pour nous. Paul a écrit: “Le problème se pose: ce que nous devons demander dans nos prières comme il le faudrait, nous ne le savons pas, mais l’esprit lui-même sollicite pour nous par des gémissements inexprimés.” (Romains 8:26). Comment cela? La Parole de Dieu renferme des prophéties et des prières inspirées qui se rapportent à notre situation. Jéhovah les laisse en quelque sorte intercéder pour nous. Il considère que c’est ce que nous dirions si nous comprenions comment elles s’appliquent à notre cas, et il nous exauce en conséquence. – TG1991 15/12 p18 §18 Parfois, nous avons du mal à savoir exactement quoi demander dans la prière. Dans ce cas, Dieu peut même voir les sentiments que nous n’avons pas su exprimer ; il fait appel à sa connaissance parfaite de notre situation pour répondre précisément à nos besoins (Romains 8:26, 27). Quand nous nous rendons compte que Dieu est intervenu dans notre vie, même de façon discrète, nous nous sentons attirés par lui. – TG2014 1/ 4 p4 Qu’est-ce que la lecture biblique de cette semaine t’a appris sur Jéhovah ? Nous sommes tous issus d’Adam. Que nous le voulions ou non, nous avons hérité de lui un corps imparfait, soumis au péché et à la mort. Paul décrit bien notre triste condition. « Je suis charnel, écrit-il, vendu sous le péché. Homme misérable que je suis ! Qui me délivrera du corps voué à cette mort ? » Paul répond lui-même à sa question : « Grâces soient rendues à Dieu par Jésus Christ notre Seigneur ! » (Romains 7:14, 24, 25). – TG2015 1/3 p4 Jéhovah est conscient du pouvoir du péché. Sa Parole présente le péché comme une force qui tient l’homme dans son étreinte mortelle. Et quelle étreinte ! Dans sa lettre aux Romains, l’apôtre Paul explique : nous sommes “ sous le péché ”, comme des soldats sont sous les ordres de leur commandant (Romains 3:9) ; le péché “ a régné ” sur les humains comme un roi (Romains 5:21) ; il “ réside ” en nous (Romains 7:17, 20) ; sa “ loi ” est constamment à l’œuvre en nous, cherchant à diriger nos actions (Romains 7:23, 25). Quelle terrible emprise le péché exerce sur notre chair déchue Romains 7:21, 24. cl chap26 §5 Satan veut détruire notre amitié avec Jéhovah. Il aimerait détruire notre relation avec Jéhovah, que ce soit en nous attaquant frontalement par la persécution ou sournoisement en rongeant lentement notre foi. Le découragement est une de ses tactiques sournoises les plus efficaces. C’est efficace, car cela détruit peu à peu notre amitié avec Jéhovah. Parfois Paul était découragé. Un jour il a dit qu’il était un « homme misérable ». Il pensait qu’il ne valait rien. (Romains 7:21-24) Pourtant Paul avait une belle amitié avec Jéhovah, et il faisait sans doute partie du collège central. Alors pourquoi était-il découragé ? C’était à cause de ses points faibles. Il voulait faire le bien mais ce n’était pas toujours facile. Si nous sommes découragé à cause de nos points faibles, nous serons rassuré de savoir que Paul a eu les mêmes sentiments. – TG2014 15/9 p12 §12 L’apôtre Paul a encouragé tous les chrétiens à ne pas banaliser, ou considérer comme ordinaire, la liberté que Jéhovah nous a donnée par le moyen de son Fils, Jésus Christ. Paul était profondément malheureux et avait la conscience troublée parce qu’il était captif du péché et de la mort. Mais il a déclaré avec reconnaissance : « Grâces soient rendues à Dieu [ou : Je remercie Dieu] par Jésus Christ notre Seigneur ! » Pourquoi ? Il a expliqué à ses compagnons chrétiens : « Car la loi de l’esprit qui donne la vie en union avec Christ Jésus vous a libérés de la loi du péché et de la mort » (Rom. 7:24, 25 ; 8:2). À l’exemple de Paul, nous ne devrions jamais oublier que Jéhovah nous a libérés du péché et de la mort. Grâce à la rançon, nous pouvons servir notre Dieu avec une conscience nette et y prendre vraiment plaisir – TG2018 Avril p8 §7 Paul s’est exclamé : « Homme misérable que je suis ! » (Rom. 7:24). Beaucoup d’entre nous se disent la même chose. Pourquoi ? Parce que même si nous désirons réellement plaire à Jéhovah, nous n’y arrivons pas toujours à cause de notre imperfection, et cela nous décourage. Mais la Bible nous assure que «ceux qui se réfugient en Jéhovah» n’ont pas à se sentir écrasés par la culpabilité – TG2017 Novembre p8 §1,2 Romains 7:21-25. Paul savait bien comme cela peut être dur de lutter contre de mauvais désirs et des faiblesses. Mais il était sûr qu’il pouvait gagner le combat s’il priait Jéhovah pour lui demander son aide, et s’il manifestait sa foi dans le sacrifice de Jésus. Et nous ? Pouvons-nous gagner le combat contre nos faiblesses ? Oui, si comme Paul nous comptons entièrement sur la force de Jéhovah et pas sur la nôtre, et si nous avons foi en la rançon. – ws2016/9 p8 §14 Jéhovah n’acceptera notre culte que s’il est saint, ou pur. Notre culte ne peut pas être pur si nous faisons des choses que Jéhovah déteste, comme la violence, les actes sexuels immoraux et tout ce qui a un lien avec le spiritisme (Romains 8:13). Mais si nous nous divertissons avec ces choses, cela ne plaira pas non plus à Jéhovah. Notre culte ne sera pas pur et Jéhovah ne l’acceptera pas. Cela mettra sérieusement en danger notre amitié avec lui. – lvs chap6 p75 §6 Tous ceux qui sont fidèles à Jéhovah et à son organisation recevront des bienfaits. Les chrétiens oints seront rois avec Jésus dans le ciel. (Romains 8:16, 17) Les autres chrétiens recevront la vie sans fin dans le Paradis. Tous les adorateurs de Jéhovah ont la belle mission de parler aux gens de ces bienfaits. Si nous rendons notre amitié avec Jéhovah plus forte et si nous continuons à progresser spirituellement en avançant au rythme de l’organisation de Jéhovah, en marchant constamment à son allure, nous aussi nous pourrons recevoir des bienfaits extraordinaires. – ws2014 15/5 p21 §16 Dieu ne manifeste pas son amour uniquement en comblant nos besoins physiques. Il nous a aussi accordé de l’honneur et de la dignité en mettant en nous des besoins spirituels et en nous donnant la capacité de les combler. Grâce à cela, les humains qui obéissent à Dieu peuvent espérer faire un jour partie de sa famille, être ses « enfants » (Romains 8:19-21).- TG2014 1/3 p3 Romains 8:21 nous garantit que le monde nouveau viendra bel et bien. Ce verset promet que « la création elle aussi sera libérée de l’esclavage de la corruption et aura la liberté glorieuse des enfants de Dieu ». La question est de savoir si nous y serons, si nous obtiendrons la récompense – TG2016/12 p13 §4 Quand nous rendons témoignage, nous pouvons expliquer que, sous le règne de Christ, l’humanité bénéficiera de l’application complète du sacrifice rédempteur et sera progressivement amenée à la perfection. La Bible déclare : « La création elle aussi sera libérée de l’esclavage de la corruption et aura la liberté glorieuse des enfants de Dieu » (Rom. 8:21). Cela sera possible uniquement grâce à la faveur extraordinaire de Jéhovah. – TG2016/7 p30 §18 L’amour de Dieu pour les humains est si grand qu’il ne leur refuse pas le bien, quoi qu’il lui en coûte. Son amour est éternel. Nous pourrons toujours compter dessus. Tout humain sensible à l’amour de Jéhovah et qui se soumet avec obéissance à sa domination connaîtra un avenir merveilleux « Je suis convaincu, a écrit Paul, que ni mort ni vie, ni anges ni gouvernements, ni choses présentes ni choses à venir, ni puissances, ni hauteur ni profondeur, ni aucune autre création ne pourra nous séparer de l’amour de Dieu qui est en Christ Jésus notre Seigneur » (Rom. 8:38, 39). – TG2015 15/11 p16 §15 Quelles autres perles spirituelles as-tu découvertes dans la lecture biblique de cette semaine ? Satan sait que nous avons des points faibles. Parfois il profite de nos points faibles pour nous pousser à faire des choses mauvaises. Alors cela devient difficile de rester fidèles à Jéhovah. Il y a des signaux qui nous avertissent d’un danger. Par exemple, ne plus prier, ou prêcher moins, ou aller moins souvent aux réunions. C’est dangereux de penser que ce n’est pas grave. Nous risquons peu à peu de ne plus entendre ce que Jéhovah nous dit. Satan va en profiter et il va nous pousser à obéir à nos mauvais désirs. Finalement, nous risquons de faire une action mauvaise que nous ne pensions jamais faire. (Romains 7:15) Mais cela n’arrivera pas si nous faisons des changements dans notre conduite dès que nous voyons le signal d’un danger. Si nous écoutons bien la voix de Jéhovah, nous n’écouterons jamais la voix d’étrangers. – ws2014 15/8 p21 §8 Tout le monde peut être tenté, même des adultes. En effet, la tentation peut se manifester de différentes façons. L’apôtre Paul n’était pas tout jeune quand il a écrit : « Je prends en effet plaisir à la loi de Dieu [...], mais je vois dans mes membres une autre loi qui fait la guerre contre la loi de mon intelligence et qui m’emmène captif vers la loi du péché » (Romains 7:22, 23). Si Paul a résisté à l’envie de céder, nous aussi nous pouvons y arriver ! Et puis, pourquoi devenir esclave de nos désirs ? (1 Corinthiens 9:27). Si nous sommes jeune et si nous apprenons dès maintenant à résister à la tentation, nous allons nous épargner bien des soucis et cela nous sera également utile quand nous serons adulte. – RV2014/10 p8 La liberté que l’esprit de Jéhovah procure est plus qu’une libération d’un esclavage physique. L’esprit de Jéhovah libère de l’imperfection et de la mort, ainsi que du faux culte et de ses pratiques (Romains 8:2). Quelle liberté extraordinaire ! Même quelqu’un qui est en prison ou esclave peut en ressentir les bienfaits – TG2018 Avril p8 §5 Les chrétiens oints pensent toujours au Royaume céleste de Dieu et à leur espérance d’être « cohéritiers de Christ » (Rom. 8:14-17). Et ceux qui ont une espérance terrestre ? Comment les paroles de Paul s’appliquent-elles à eux ? Comment les « autres brebis » peuvent-elles penser toujours aux « choses d’en haut » ? Bien qu’elles n’aient pas l’espérance céleste, les autres brebis aussi peuvent penser toujours aux choses d’en haut. Comment ? En accordant la priorité à Jéhovah Dieu et aux intérêts du Royaume. Notre chair imparfaite nous porte à nous adonner à des choses qui flattent nos sens (Romains 7:21-25). Sans l’action de l’esprit saint de Dieu dans notre vie, nous pourrions céder à « des œuvres des ténèbres » Pour rester vigilant spirituellement, il nous faut donc penser toujours aux choses d’en haut. Nous pouvons le faire sous trois rapports. Notre conduite, notre mentalité, notre soutien à la prédication – TG2014 15/10 p28 Dans le monde d’aujourd’hui, le chagrin, les souffrances et la mort sont partout. Les humains gémissent, souffrent et meurent (Romains 8:22) C’est pour cela que nous avons besoin du monde nouveau de Jéhovah où la guérison physique complète promise par Dieu aura lieu. Dans ce monde-là, tous les humains auront ce que Jéhovah a promis : une santé parfaite. Notre reconnaissance sincère envers Dieu et notre foi profonde dans ses promesses devraient dès maintenant nous pousser à faire tout notre possible pour être dignes de vivre dans le monde nouveau. – TG2015 15/6 p12 §18 Une image nette de notre récompense invisible nous aide à persévérer, à être joyeux et à prendre des décisions en fonction de notre espoir de vivre éternellement. Paul a écrit à des chrétiens oints : « Si nous espérons ce que nous ne voyons pas, nous continuons à l’attendre avec endurance » (Rom. 8:25). En fait, ces paroles s’appliquent à tous les chrétiens qui espèrent vivre éternellement. Bien que nous n’ayons pas encore reçu notre « récompense », notre foi est si forte que nous continuons à l’attendre patiemment. Comme Moïse, nous ne considérons aucune année passée à servir Jéhovah comme du temps perdu. TG2014 15/4 p3
  12. 4 points
    16 Not all who have the heavenly hope are part of “the faithful and discreet slave.” (From the same 2016 Watchtower as quoted above by Kosonen) Who has the right to say this ? Who has the right to put that in print ? Note is does not say 'those that might think they have the heavenly hope'. It actually says Not all who have the heavenly hope ... The GB of the JW org approve of this being written and used at meetings of JW's. So the GB themselves are judging the other MEMBERS OF THE BODY OF CHRIST'S BRIDE. The GB are judging those of the 144,000 chosen ones. Has God or Jesus Christ given the GB the right to do the judging ? I would not think so.
  13. 3 points
    They are that these are not your words. Who wrote this?
  14. 3 points
    The signs read: "love does not shun". True, the liove of this world with its "practices" of fornication, LGBT does not shun. But we do not tolerate unrepentant "pracitisers" of this kind of love they refer to. This is my answer and I am a typical rank and file JW who cannot think for myself according to all the slurs given me on this forum. I predict this will become a huge issue as all children now at school are taught to accept these practices whereas the bible says we should not " condone" them Romans 1. So the future is bleak regarding morality. When good is bad and bad is good. We will all in future be persecuted as hateful because of this. The same people who say jehovah was harsh when he killed wayward Jews who participated in false worship and burnt their own children. There are none as blind as those who do not want to see.
  15. 3 points
    @JW Insider do we know the writer of this paragraph in the writing committee? Just curious. How did this get by the proofreaders?
  16. 3 points
    John Butler was banned because he went too far in calling for illegal harm to be done against some public people. Not because of his stance on the child abuse matter. Once you cross the law you are definitely banned. Billy the Kid aka Allen Smith..... I have tolerated on many occasions.. until soon thereafter he is so rude and abusive toward other members I have to ban him. He needs to find another sandbox to go play in. Not this one. I'm not saying that others don't at times get abusive..... but my tolerance with Allen Smith is very thin... he "rubs me the wrong way" every time. -----------
  17. 3 points
    I'm sure it's been pointed out under the many prior 1975 topics in this forum. The fact that the prediction was for the 1970's, not 1975 is easily seen from the articles called, for example, "What Will the 1970's Bring?" and the Circuit Assembly badges we wore that asked: "Who Will Conquer the World in the 1970's?" The reason for 1970's instead of 1975 was because of articles and talks that made the following points: *** Watchtower 1968 August 15 p. 499 par. 30 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975? *** 30 Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975, and the long-looked-for thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then? Possibly, but we wait to see how closely the seventh thousand-year period of man’s existence coincides with the sabbathlike thousand-year reign of Christ. . . . It does not necessarily mean that 1975 marks the end of the first 6,000 years of Jehovah’s seventh creative “day.” Why not? Because after his creation Adam lived some time during the “sixth day,” which unknown amount of time would need to be subtracted from Adam’s 930 years, to determine when the sixth seven-thousand-year period or “day” ended, and how long Adam lived into the “seventh day.” And yet the end of that sixth creative “day” could end within the same Gregorian calendar year of Adam’s creation. It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years. If that difference between the end of six thousand years since Adam, and the end of the "sixth day" could not be a matter of years, then this means that it must be less than two years from the autumn of 1975. After the autumn of 1977 it would have become a matter of years, not just months. Then, especially after the 1970's, the focus of the prediction moved to a time before the year 2000: The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah p. 216 "Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom." Watchtower 1984 Mar 1 pp.18-19 "Some of that "generation" could survive until the end of the century. But there are many indications that "the end" is much closer than that!" "Let Your Kingdom Come" (1981) p.102 "But now in our 20th century, we have come to the time for harvest "a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels"!" Watchtower 1989 Jan 1 p.12 "He was laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our 20th century."
  18. 3 points
    @AlanF Haven't seen you around these parts for a while. I see the name @scholar JW pop up in a "Who's Online" box now and it always reminds me of the fact that he seemed to love a 587 debate, wherever he could find one. I always appreciated your knowledge on that topic (although, you also scare me with your evolution/atheism arguments). But back to the point. I did not know that you knew this much about the Lloyd Barry and Ted Jaracz situation. I was going to start avoiding using so many names but, yes, of course you are talking about the same people. In case you are even more aware of some of these details I would like to run another situation by you, especially since it sounds like you might be aware of details that would clarify or adjust what I think I know. I had just decided earlier today NOT to share this part of the story because of how unbelievable and contrived it might sound. But I'm going to go ahead and put it out here, and I'll take a cue from you and use names this time: And by the way I don't know if you know C.A. (still alive) but he is the WTS source for most of this particular story, either directly or indirectly. He is currently living in a residence just off the Bethel campus, and is not doing that well health-wise. I prefer that his name is not spelled out here, because I'm sure he would have preferred that these issues were not widely publicized in a forum such as this. I embarrassed myself in front of him on my first day at Bethel over 40 years ago, by telling him about a problem with the pay phones in the Bethel lobby. He listened and then shrugged as if he could not have cared less about it. I don't know why it still embarrasses me so much, but it doesn't matter, we got along very well from that point until even long after I left Bethel. He himself got involved in some even more embarrassing situations at Bethel, which I think you know about. He was in the Service Department under Miller and Jaracz, and shortly after I left Bethel, he was "promoted" to the Writing Department. But this story is primarily from back in 91 to 92. After the 91 article, brothers and sisters thought it was good to start telling their stories of sexual abuse to the elders, to the Society, and to professional therapists. The situation was very unnerving for the Society and for local elders too, especially when the accused were those they knew and wanted to defend in some way. There was a big new controversy over repressed memories and whether all these accusations could actually be false. Elders in California, and a couple other states were actually starting classes in "repressed memories" and trying to learn what they could about psychiatry. Victims were coming out of the woodwork. So Brother Jaracz who tried to keep it "anonymous" from the rest of the Service Department, talked to several of the brothers who were known to be on the rise and who had requested or were being considered for Bethel positions in the Service Department. These were Brother Pierce, West, Lett and Beagle, possibly among others. Pierce and Beagle were sent to California to handle circuits that TJ had been in, and West and Lett were assigned to Wisconsin, at least, there might have been other areas and brothers involved too. To give you an idea of who these people were, Beagle, Pierce and Lett were called in to work as C.O.s and D.O.s around the NYC area. (West may have been too, but I don't know what happened to him.) This is a commonly known sign that they are being watched and in close communication with the Service Department, and Bethelites "in the know" start guessing at this point that they will soon be called in to Bethel for "top jobs" CA, in fact, predicted when Beagle would come in (he was immediately assigned to the Service Department) and CA guessed in advance that Pierce would go straight to the Governing Body. I think he may have had some inside information. The two most intimidating were Beagle (six foot six) and Pierce (short but a bulldog with a smile). The intimidation campaign actually produced letters complaining about both of these persons, which was another reason for moving them to NYC. Pierce (from the Salem OR area) had a range of complaints about his "weirdness." An old accusation from 1991 actually ended up revealing clearly that it was TJ behind the anonymous campaign, as he sent a letter on his own letterhead (his codes) to a sister (a victim's mother) whose daughter was sexually abused by more than one elder since she was young. The mother died, and the daughter is in possession of letters between her mother and the WTS, including at least one from TJ. And based on the content of the letters, she recalled that it was West and Lett who met with her to warn her and her mother that they would be disfellowshipped if they exposed the story. This part of the story, if true, would provide further confirmation that Lett and West were involved in the same intimidation. I already knew something of Pierce and Beagle because of relatives in California. Brother Beagle, by the way, (young) died suddenly of a heart problem shortly after he began his assignment in the Service Dept. Brother Lett, of course, is now on the Governing Body and made himself famous to this victim (and exJWs, and probably other victims) by implying that apostate lies were behind the spread of rumors about the WTS covering up child sexual abuse. [edited to remove some of the state locations and too many specifics about the victim and victim's family. If you copied a previous version, please reload the page to get the edited version.]
  19. 3 points
    Thank you, i have read this already, but it isn't very recent.. My main point was to find out if the Governing Body / Writing Dept' has very recently written anything new regarding suicide. In the last 6 month maybe ? My personal feelings are that God, through Jesus Christ, will resurrect all those that they find worthy. And that 'worthiness' cannot be judged by any human. Thanks again.
  20. 3 points
    JW Insider

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    For the record I have never heard you say anything here that did not sound sincere. I have never heard a word from you that I would have thought was borne out of hate or even OCD. However, there is a such thing as a "zeal for God, but not according to accurate knowledge." Of course, I'm sure your knowledge of scripture is at least as good as Pearl's, but as I've said before, the interpretation appears to unnecessarily "pick on" the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses. Earlier you quoted from Matthew 7: 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. I realize that this is not about identifying an organization, but is more about how Christ Jesus along with Jehovah's spirit produces a good tree producing truth, comfort, healing, and good qualities among those who follow. The problem with your own view, in my opinion, is that you already claim that it's the association of Jehovah's Witnesses through which the faithful anointed are coming through, and for this reason such an association fulfills Bible prophecy. But these faithful anointed are therefore being produced through the association of Jehovah's Witnesses -- and no bad true tree can produce good fruit. Also, anointed aside, I think all of us who are associated with Jehovah's Witnesses see GOOD FRUIT being produced among us. All of also see many of the wrongs, and most of us are not willing to discuss the wrongs, or admittedly, even "process" such things. Sometimes that's because some of us are obviously thinking that the organization has some kind of direct authority over us. This is no doubt a common view of immature Witnesses. But the Bible makes us realize that such an organization can be used as a tool for Christ's Kingdom interests, but that Christ's authority transcends organization. The organization is an expected result of trying to efficiently and lovingly get the word out to as many people as possible in as many lands (and languages) as possible. Human nature leads some in the organization to assume that they need to have (or see) some kind of temporal, worldly-styled authority over other persons, but many of us realize that we are not actually under the authority of men. Yet, we appreciate the leadership and example of men in the organization. Unrelated to that issue of authority, most of can easily see how the effect of a world-wide association of Witnesses is both an opportunity for each of us to show the fruits of God's spirit, and it becomes an example, even a "Witness," to the good effects of God's holy spirit. I'll grant that there is much to improve, but even if it produces SOME good fruit, then it is coming from a "good" tree. We don't have to chop down the tree, because it's not a bad tree. My own interpretation is that the "organization" is not the tree of Matt 7:17,18 anyway, it's just that the good influence of Jehovah's holy spirit helps such a "tool" to reflect usefulness as an "instrument" or "vessel" because it is made up of well meaning sincere and loving people who want to do what is right. Organization or "orderliness" is just another potential result of wanting to do what is right in the best ways possible.
  21. 3 points
    JW Insider

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    I know what you mean. Most of the time when a person puts up a post that goes to a different topic, it's not that serious and they don't intend to create an in-depth discussion of that new topic. But Anna quoted something from another website with enough material in it to make 100 posts the length of this one. For example, if I mention mad cow disease as an aside, I know that JTR, for example, just might be able to find a video about cows that are arming themselves with guns for some kind of revolution, or something. But I doubt that this means JTR wants to discuss either mad cow disease or the advisability of allowing four-legged creatures to have arms.
  22. 3 points
    Anna

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    I believe this scholars analysis of the situation is more accurate than the ones opposers like to pontificate about. Spiritual Resistance of Christian Conviction in Nazi Germany: The Case of the Jehovah's Witnesses By Yonan, Gabriele Journal of Church and State, Spring 1999 ------------------------------------------------- JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES AS MODERN-DAY REPRESENTATIVES OF THE CHILIASTIC TRADITION The root of the Greek word chiliasmus is "chilioi," which means "a thousand," and which in Christian terminology refers to the thousand-year reign of Jesus Christ during the Millennium. Based on the Revelation of John in the Bible (20:1-10) and influenced by Jewish apocalyptic thinking, many early Christians adopted a premillennial paradigm, expecting that Jesus, immediately before the end of the world, would set up a thousand-year kingdom of peace and righteousness. It would be the re-creation of Paradise on earth through the restoration of nature to its earliest, pristine state. The characteristics of premillennial chiliastic thinking are: • the eschatological idea of a united world; • the present age seen as a time of trial and tribulation prior to the thousand-year reign; and, • egalitarianism, or equality, in the coming world society. According to this chiliastic perspective, following the re-establishment of the original condition there will no longer be any differences of rank or order. The new earthly paradise will be marked by the absence of war, enmity, strife, need, suffering, and sickness. For this condition to become a reality, there must first be a "clean slate," a tabula rasa, made possible by the final battle of Armageddon.(n1) The despised but steadfast ones will be God's chosen people--the pariahs emerging as the true elite. The chiliastic ideas of the early Christians were in harmony with the expectations of the Jews, according to whom the drama of salvation would have to be enacted on the world stage to be seen and experienced by all humans. In history there have been variations in the chiliastic expectations, but they primarily have appeared in times of oppression of Christian minorities. Similar phenomena are known from other religions, like the early Shia movement in Islam. The chiliastic utopias have for the most part disappeared under the influence of the enlightenment and secularism. But some of their elements can be found in the utopian socio-revolutionary movements and in various religious movements of the nineteenth century. North America and Britain saw new Christian groups emerge which focused on the apocalyptic parts of the Bible and formed new chiliastic movements. Among these were the Apostolic Catholics (Henry Drummond, 1786-1860, and Edward Irving, 1792-1834); the Adventists (William Miller, 1782-1849, and Ellen G. White 1827-1915); and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, or Mormons (Joseph Smith, 18051844). One of the latest forming yet best known nineteenth-century chiliastic communities was the Earnest Bible Students, later to become known as the Jehovah's Witnesses, whose formation dates from the 1870s. Typical of the chiliastic expectations of Jehovah's Witnesses are a deterministic concept of history and a linear conception of time which will end with the destruction of the Antichrist and an apocalyptic victory highlighted by the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.(n2) WHO ARE THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES? Jehovah's Witnesses are an independent Christian denomination whose eschatological teaching points to the "Kingdom" of God. This kingdom is understood as God's government in heaven which, under the administration of Jesus Christ, will liberate mankind from all problems through his peaceful reign over the earth. This denomination can be described as chiliastic in that it is characterized by the expectation of Christ's thousand-year reign--his millennium. This Christian community, which began in America in the last third of the nineteenth century, sprang from the widespread belief in the closeness of Christ's return (parousia) and the establishment of a new Jerusalem. According to the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses, before the dawn of God's kingdom on earth the decisive battle of Armageddon will take place in which God himself will destroy the powers of wickedness. Around 1870, the American businessman Charles Taze, Russell (1852-1916) gathered around him a small group of people who were interested in studying the Bible. Under the name "Earnest Bible Students," they read the Bible with a special attention to its teaching about the last days. Beginning in 1879 the students published the magazine "Zion's Watch Tower" and only one year later the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society was established. Since 1909 this society has based its headquarters in Brooklyn, New York. In 1931 this group took the name "Jehovah's Witnesses." This use of the Hebrew name for God was based on the Old Testament passage found in Isaiah 43:10, 12. The name Jehovah appears about 7,000 times in the Hebrew books of the Bible in the form of the tetragram (meaning "four characters") JHVH. Jehovah's Witnesses see themselves as part of the biblical tradition of witnesses, especially that of the New Testament, and point to certain scriptures that exemplify the words of Jesus Christ to Pontius Pilate: "To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth" (John 18:37). In Germany the Jehovah's Witnesses have been active since 1896, and were known until 1931 as "Ernste Bibelforscher" (Earnest Bible Students). Their religion now numbers approximately 192,000 members in Germany in more than 2,000 local congregations. Worldwide there are now over five million members in virtually every country in the world. Their most important channel of communication is The Watchtower magazine with a printing of more than 22 million copies per issue. In 1996 their annual commemoration of the death of Jesus Christ was attended by more than 14 million people globally. RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION IN HISTORY If there was one Christian group which rejected the Hitler-led German National Socialist State without compromise, it was the Jehovah's Witnesses. With around 25,000 members in Germany in 1933, the Jehovah's Witnesses were banned in that year but approximately half of its membership continued their "preaching work" underground. Jehovah's Witnesses refused to say "Heil Hitler," refused to participate in the processions, refused to sing the national anthem and the Horst Wessel Lied, and above all refused military service, oath to the flag, and all activities connected with the military establishment. For this they were bitterly persecuted from the very beginning of the National Socialist regime. Approximately ten thousand Jehovah's Witnesses were incarcerated. This small Christian group attempted through large-scale leaflet campaigns in 1936 and 1937 to open the eyes of the German people to the criminal character of the Nazi state and thus defend their religious interests against the unjust regime. Their religious resistance resulted, however, in the deaths of 1,200 congregation members. The persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses in the Third Reich belongs to the tradition of religious persecution in history. To that same tradition belong the early persecutions of Christians in the polytheistic Roman Empire and in Persia under the Sasanides who established Zoroastrianism as their state religion. Later came persecutions of Christians who were against the doctrines of the early councils of the imperial church (Arians, Nestorians, Monophysites). Later came the persecution of Jews in Europe in the late middle ages and their expulsion from Spain in the fifteenth century during the time of the Spanish Inquisition. Various sects of Christianity experienced persecution before and after the time of the German Reformation, including the Bogomiles, Waldensians, Albigensians, Baptists, Unitarians, Mennonites, Quakers, and Methodists. Many of these groups emigrated to the New World to obtain religious freedom beginning in the seventeenth century. RECAPITULATION: THE WITNESSES' RESISTANCE During the Nazi reign, Jehovah's Witnesses as a group were virtually unanimous in their resistance to Nazism. "Of the more than 20,000 Jehovah's Witnesses [in Germany] in the year 1933," noted one scholar, "almost one out of two was arrested. A total of 6,019 were put in prisons or concentration camps, and 8,917 cases of imprisonment were recorded. Two thousand men and women were put into concentration camps, 253 were sentenced to death, and 203 of these were actually executed."(n3) The exemplary position of Jehovah's Witnesses has been acknowledged and honored by important church representatives in Germany and other countries. Hanns Lilje, bishop of the Evangelical-Lutheran Church for the state of Hannover, wrote soon after the war in his book of memoirs that "no Christian group could anywhere near measure up to the number of blood witnesses of Jehovah's Witnesses."(n4) The Protestant theologian Kurt Hutten, who revitalized the "Apologetic Centre of the Protestant Church in Germany" under the new name "Evangelische Zentrale fur Weltanschauungsfragen" in Stuttgart, recorded the plight of Jehovah's Witnesses in Germany in his book Seher, Grubler, Enthusiasten: In the Nazi state Jehovah's Witnesses were already in 1933 banned and cruelly persecuted. In numerous court cases they were given heavy sentences. Thousands of them were in prison because they had continued their activity, had refused military service and for other reasons. Testimonies from former concentration camp prisoners confirm their uncompromising determination and courageous attitude; when given the tempting offer of freedom in exchange for a denial of their principles they refused and accepted all consequences. Around 1,000 were executed, and another 1,000 died in prisons or concentration camps; members of the Jehovah's Witnesses were sentenced to more than 20,000 years in prison.(n5) And in 1989 the Canadian jurist William Kaplan from the University of Ottawa offered this opinion: "The courage of the Jehovah's Witnesses, who endured repression and fought for what they believed, is a testament to the human spirit."(n6) FAILURE OF THE LARGER CHURCHES DURING THE NAZI REGIME Shortly after the end of the war the German Protestant Church made a public declaration, the so-called Nurnberger "Schuldbekenntnis" in 1945, of its failures during the period of National Socialism. This confession included the tacit acceptance and condonement of the persecutions, especially of the Jews, which resulted in the most massive genocide in history, and in the enormous destruction to which Hitler had subjected the world. These atrocities resulted in 45 million dead and utter devastation throughout Europe. Protestantism and Catholicism had accommodated the Nazi regime from two very different standpoints. Protestantism had influenced Germany principally through the imperial government and Bismarck's Prussia. Since the Weimar Republic had introduced a secularization process--the recognition of other denominations as equals and rejection of the concept of sects (1919)--it was met with disapproval by elements within the church. The Protestant church was hoping for a restoration of its own privileges through a new political and national power. Many Protestant clergymen saw in Hitler a "great man sent by God"--a man who would introduce the birth of a new Protestant Germany. The Catholic Church had suffered further losses of power in Germany after Bismarck's defeat of their political party, the Zentrum-spartei. For this reason the Catholic party supported the emergence of the Weimar Republic after the first World War. Before 1933 the Catholic Church had disapproved of the National Socialists. Catholics were forbidden to join the Nazi party, and the ideology based on the supremacy of the Aryan race was condemned by the church. But very soon after Hitler seized power on 30 January 1933, the church changed its course. On 24 March 1933, the Catholic bishops wrote an encyclical in which they encouraged all German Catholics to be loyal to all "proper authorities," fulfill their duties as citizens, and refrain from all illegal and seditious activity. German Catholics were now permitted to wear military uniforms while attending religious services. Church representatives celebrated this as "the time of fulfillment" and called for happy and wholehearted readiness in cooperation with the new totalitarian state. Soon after this, on 20 July 1933, Hitler's Reichsregierung and the Vatican concluded their concordat, an agreement of special protection which guaranteed the rights of the Catholic Church to operate its own schools, religious orders, and other institutions in Germany. In exchange for this the church was obliged to make its political party, das Zentrum, vote for the Special Powers Act of March 1933. On 28 March 1933, bishops of the Catholic Church openly spoke for Hitler and the leadership of his NSDAP party and encouraged "loyalty towards the rightful authority." After the conclusion of the concordat, the Catholic Cardinal von Faulhaber wrote to Hitler: "This handshake with the Papacy [is] a great deed of immeasurable blessing .... May God protect our Reichskanzler for our people"(n7) The Catholic Church believed it could secure its existence by setting up an arrangement with the new people in power. This was a mistake, since Hitler had no intention of keeping any agreements. What the German Protestant Church did was even worse. The church held its national synod on 27 September 1933, in which Rev. Ludwig Muller was appointed national bishop. His speech reflected his adoption of the totalitarian ideology of Hitler: [A]s he has done to every people, so the eternal God has also to our people given its own particular innate law. This has materialized in the Fuhrer Adolf Hitler .... This law speaks to us through the history of our people as it has grown from blood and ground .... From this fellowship of German Christians in the national socialist state of Adolf Hitler shall grow the German Christian National Church which will include the entire people. One people! One God! One Reich! One church!(n8) The expulsion of Protestant Christians of "foreign blood" (Christianized Jews) and the removal of "all un-German elements from church service and confession" stimulated the development of a church movement called "Deutsche Christen" (German Christians), which included approximately 600,000 members of the German Protestant Church and was widely supported. The Deutsche Christen, which had been active since the autumn of 1932 under the leadership of National Socialist clergymen, won 70 percent of the vote in the church elections of July 1933. When it became clear that even the concordat of the German Catholic Church did not engender the desired protection in the totalitarian Nazi state, a new papal encyclical in 1937 "with burning grief" ("Mit brennender Sorge") gave this admonition to the announced special courts of justice: With burning grief and growing concern we have observed for some time the sufferings of the church and the growing trials of the men and women in this land and people who have stayed loyal to her in both mind and deed. Those who separate the race, the people, the state, the formal government, the persons in power or other fundamental elements of human society-elements which rightfully claim an important and honourable position within the earthly arrangement-from the realm of such earthly values and elevate them to the highest norm of all, including religious values in worshiplike adoration, he or she distorts and falsifies the God-given and God-commanded arrangement of things.(n9) There are two places in which this encyclical criticizes the Nazi racist ideology. This is not, however, directed against the antisemitic campaigns and persecution of the Jews, but rather against the superiority of the Germanic race, which was not in harmony with the Christian understanding of the Holy Scriptures, especially the Old Testament. While the Jews or other victims were still not mentioned, the pope now criticized the Nazi racist ideology. The encyclical was read in all Catholic churches but it stimulated very little response among the German Catholic bishops. Only two bishops, Konrad Graf Preysing in Berlin and Clemens August Graf von Galen in Munster, called, in vain, for a more decisive church policy. THE CONFESSIONAL CHURCH--RESISTANCE FOR ITS OWN PURPOSES The "Bekennende Kirche" or Confessional Church, as an opposition movement within the German Protestant Church, issued a statement in May 1934 which served as a protest against state interference in the religious life of the nation: The decline of the confession and thus of the Protestant Church of Germany both in faith and unity must be resisted. The Confessional Synod will resist the attempts to bring about the unity of the German Protestant Church through false teaching and the use of force or unclean methods. The unity of the Protestant Church of Germany can only come about through the word of God in faith by holy spirit. We reject the false teaching that the State, over and above its proper mission, should be the only and total arranger of human life and thus also fulfill the role of the Church.(n10) On 20 October 1934, the Barmen Declaration was followed by the Dahlem Confessional Synod. There texts make it clear that their concern was first of all the dispute concerning the "Reichskirche," the unity of the church and the purity of its teaching. Here is found not a single word about the antisemitic attacks against Jews, the oppression of Jehovah's Witnesses, communists, socialists, or other persecuted groups, thousands of whom were already confined to prisons and concentration camps, and not a word about how many Jews were forcibly emigrated. A critical resistance was discovered only in a few courageous individuals of the church who could not count on support from their church leaders. A minority criticized the unification of the twenty-eight independent Protestant state churches in 1934 to make one "Reichskirche" under one "Reichsbischof." A small group, principally the members of the second preliminary leadership of the Confessional Church, ventured to go beyond this internal church dispute. The protest from within the Confessional Church should not be ignored but regarded objectively. Research into the resistance of the Confessional Church has demonstrated its diversity and uniqueness in resisting Nazism with both attitude and action.(n11) Those Protestant groups that belonged to the Confessional Church in 1935 contributed many sermons from the pulpit against the "race and people ideology," but the faithful were mainly admonished to obedience toward the secular authority. Only in a paper written by the "radical wing" of the Confessional Church, which was not endorsed by the Confessional Church as a whole, was there a condemnation of antisemitism, Gestapo actions, and the existence of concentration camps. There were protests against German neo-paganism and the ideology of a national religion, specifically the deification of Hitler. For this reason five hundred clergymen spent brief terms in prison. The scholar of antisemitism, Wolfgang Benz, provided the following opinion in his study Resistance Under National Socialism: "Neither when the Nuremberg laws in September 1935 deprived the German Jews of their civil rights, nor at the November pogrom in 1938 (Crystal Night, the 9th of November) did the churches as public institutions protest unitedly and forcefully.(n12) Altogether, during the entire time of the Nazi regime, only around 900 Protestant Christians (clergy as well as laity) were arrested and sentenced because of faith-based resistance. They spent time in prison and concentration camps, and twelve persons were executed for religious reasons. Prominent in this small group of Protestant Christians was the still active minister and theologian Martin Niemoller (1892-1984), a leading member of the Confessional Church. In the autumn of 1933, when the so-called "Aryan Paragraph" was introduced in the churches, he founded the "Pfarrernotbund," an organization to assist fellow clergymen, that came to the aid of 6,000 ministers that year. In 1937 he was sent to a concentration camp where he remained until the end of the Nazi regime. This was where he witnessed the resiliency the of Jehovah's Witnesses. He reminisced in his book written shortly after the war's end: We Christians of today are put to shame by a so-called sect like the Bible Students (Jehovah's Witnesses), who by the hundreds and thousands have gone into concentration camps and died because they refused to serve in war and declined to fire on human beings. In this as in many other matters, it should now be clear that exactly we, the Church and Christians, today are called to penance and repentance if we would continue to preach God's word and represent his cause!(n13) The great majority of Evangelical Christians supported the national socialist movement in Germany. Political and religious resistance groups like communists, socialists, Pfarrernotbund, and the Confessional Church were first of all fighting for their own interests, their own existence, and their own bid for power. The ultimate conclusion to be drawn is the one which Wolfgang Benz states in his paper "Widerstand," or Resistance: Resistance in the political sense, with the intention of overthrowing the National Socialist regime, was never given by the Confessional Church as a whole. It was fighting first for the integrity of its own organizational structure, and then for the independence of its church teaching, according to which the Christian commandments could never be subjected to National Socialist ideology.(n14) THE WITNESSES' RELIGIOUS RESISTANCE INTERPRETED AND EVALUATED A religious interpretational model can be found in the eschatological beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses. They saw Hitler's Reich as the demonic advancement of Satan and his army. Their resistance was a part of Jehovah's battle with Satan, and they viewed themselves as Jehovah's apostles, witnesses, and disciples. God had given them the mission to resist the Nazis. Already the apocalypse (the Revelation of John) had predicted the battle against wickedness, and now they saw, in the war against the War against Nazism, the fulfillment of Bible prophecy. They did not see the persecution against them as divine justice, but as the final battle of Armageddon before the heralded thousand-year reign. It was a battle of the righteous against the Antichrist and against "his" proclaimed thousand-year reign of darkness. Another trial from Satan for these biblically-fundamentalist Witnesses was the offer of signing a declaration which required them to deny their faith in return for freedom from the concentration camps. Such an offer must have seemed to the Witnesses like Satan's temptation of Jesus in the New Testament, where Satan requires: "If you recognize me and reject Jehovah, you will be able to live in the earthly world, otherwise you will remain in my power."(n15) In contrast to the Jews, who were God's chosen people by virtue of the old covenant, the Jehovah's Witnesses saw themselves as chosen because they had accepted the true faith by an act of their own choice, which served as ground for the new covenant. In this view of "chosenness" we see the difference between the Jehovah's Witnesses' interpretation of the persecution against them and the Jewish view of the Holocaust as a trial impossible to understand and an inescapable punishment from God. The Witnesses' assessment of Hitler's mad ambition is stated eloquently by Franz Zurcher, a leading Jehovah's Witness in Switzerland who published a documentation about Nazi Germany in 1938: These ungodly elements (the Hitler dictatorship) who have rejected Christ and the Bible, now also turn against Catholicism and Protestantism, because they now feel strong enough. He who fails to see the obvious course of fascism in the world history, does not recognize the spirit of Rome or Berlin, namely the gigantic crusade against the Bible and against Christianity which dictators will continue to perpetrate down to the very end. All the written publications by these self-appointed crusaders against Jews and Christians are dedicated to struggle. Its aim is to glorify violence, to justify terror against peaceful justice, and to condone brutal persecution against Christians.(n16) This terror meant for Jehovah's Witnesses the very beginning of the end. From the hoarse voices of those cruel "Ubermenschen" we perceive the cries of the powers of darkness, of the unclean spirits which according to the Book of Revelation would tear the nations away from God and Christ and down into the dark valley of Armageddon ....(n17) J. F. Rutherford, the American president of the Watch Tower Society, on 9 February 1934 wrote a letter to Reichskanzler Adolf Hitler which opened with these words: Mr. Chancellor, This letter is both a friendly notification and a warning about things that will be of the utmost importance for your well-being. You will find that it is in your own interest to read this letter carefully. During the last ten years the leaders and the people of Germany have got to know through wide distribution of literature that God's Kingdom has come and that his King Christ Jesus will establish righteous government for the earth to the blessing of its peoples. The warning goes out that all those who stand up against God and his Kingdom will be destroyed by the Lord in Armageddon. Your government has disregarded this warning.(n18) This letter is a key document because it outlines the program and the later actions of Jehovah's Witnesses in the Third Reich. The German leadership of the Watch Tower Society knew about the letter but not the general membership. The repeated mention of the coming battle of the end, a major tenet of the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses, made clear to all Witnesses what to expect. As a message directly addressed to Hitler it is also made clear that he could be seen as the central figure, the Antichrist of the Apocalypse. In contrast to the Jews, the Jehovah's Witnesses saw a meaning in their persecution, their suffering, and their active but non-violent religious battle. Their faith had survived the Nazi rulership with perfect moral integrity. The German Witness Franz Kusserow (1882-1950), who had been imprisoned by the National Socialists for seven years and four months and was liberated only in 1945, wrote shortly after the end of the war to the Nazi judge at the family court which had deprived him of custody of three of his children: Thus two religious and ideological creeds were facing each other: On one side the National Socialist idea built on imperfect laws made by imperfect people; on the other side the faith of people who were loyally dedicated to God on the basis of the perfect laws of God. Which faith or ideology would win the final victory? Well, National Socialism is already in ruins. Those who spoke for it in bombastic and glorious terms are now branded as cowards and criminals. They were the lawmakers who stamped the study of the Holy Scriptures as a crime and put faithful men of God into prison and concentration camps only because they were thinking and acting in obedience to the guidelines of God. Which faith will win? The answer of the Holy Scriptures is: "The faith that has conquered the world."(n19) THE DECLARATION OF 25 JUNE 1933: A TEXTUAL ANALYSIS Only a few months after Hitler seized power, the activities of Jehovah's Witnesses were banned in the various states of the Reich (e.g., Bavaria and Saxonia) on the basis of the Order of 28 February 1933, for "the prevention of Communistic acts of violence dangerous to the State" and for "the restoration of public security and order." Between 24 April and 29 April, the Watchtower printery in Magdeburg (Prussia) was seized by German Police and the SA. The seizure ended temporarily, but by the end of June the premises were again shut down--this time permanently. A few weeks later, twenty-five truckloads of Bibles and Bible literature from the Watchtower were publicly burned by the National Socialists. As the situation for Jehovah's Witnesses clearly continued to darken (on 24 June 1933, Prussia also issued a ban on their activities), the Watch Tower Society decided, together with its German branch office, to hold a large convention in Berlin-Wilmersdorf. The seven thousand delegates present adopted a Declaration which spoke out against the false charges of seditious activity and emphasized the political neutrality of Jehovah's Witnesses. This resolution was addressed to Reichskanzler Adolf Hitler in the form of a petition, an appeal. The churches in Germany today claim that this Declaration represented an attempt on the part of Jehovah's Witnesses to curry the favor of Hitler and his Nazi state, and that it included anti-Jewish statements. They claim that it was only after the failure of this attempt that Jehovah's Witnesses resisted the Nazi regime. The charges climaxed in the accusation that the American Watch Tower Office and its president, J. F. Rutherford, had knowingly sacrificed the German Jehovah's Witnesses and pushed them onto a road that would inevitably lead to martyrdom. A textual analysis of the actual document indicates that these accusations are erroneous. The passages quoted from the Declaration create the impression that it was primarily a justification, an overture toward the Nazi system, and that it was influenced by anti-Jewish attitudes. This, however, is a falsification of the facts. From a secular point of view, the document was a "sermon" directed to the addressee, Reichskanzler Hitler himself. It was a clear dissociation from the powers of this world but it took for granted that surely even Hitler had good intentions, that even he must have wanted to do good. But it also proclaimed that if this should prove not to be so, then the Reichskanzler and Fuhrer of the German people belonged to the kingdom of Satan. Hitler would then become an enemy of Jehovah and his Witnesses. These straightforward statements left the Reichskanzler with only two possible conclusions: either the Declaration was the product of the collective imaginations of some crazed religious group or, it was, in its mad boldness, a declaration of war from a David against a Goliath. While the powerful Roman Catholic Church had entered into a gentleman's agreement with the dictator in the form of the concordat, here a small Christian faction was blowing the trumpet of Jericho and demanding, in sermon-style and in all earnestness, that Hitler should subject himself completely to the will of Jehovah. In turn the church promised that it would then maintain its neutrality, as it did in all other states. And although Hitler was still addressed in politely neutral terms, this small group did not hesitate to call its business partner, the Roman Catholic Church, a tool of "the great enemy Satan." The Witnesses repudiated the charges that they were supported by Jews or Bolsheviks--accusations of "Satan's tool" were whispered into the Reichskanzler's ears by the "official" churches. And certainly, the established churches had long been pushing for an official ban on this "sectarian" but above all zealous Christian denomination. Under the Weimar Republic such attempts had dissipated. Because Jehovah's Witnesses advocate only one government, that of God's Kingdom, some have viewed them as subversive. But nothing could be further from the truth. In imitation of Jesus' apostles, "they are no part of the world" (John 17:16). They are politically neutral. Because of their loyalty to God, they obey the laws of their respective human governments. Indeed, they are exemplary in their "subjection to the superior authorities" (Romans 13:1). Never have they advocated rebellion against any human government! There is, however, a line that cannot be crossed under any circumstances. It is the line between the duty of Jehovah's Witnesses to man and their duty to God. They seek to render to Caesar what belongs to Caesar but to God what belongs to God (Matthew 22:21). The passages from the Declaration which the churches today single out for quotation cannot rightfully be termed antisemitic or anti-Jewish; rather, they are anti-American or perhaps even anti-world. The polemic against the Anglo-American world power with its big business enterprises built up by "commercial" Jews must be seen in its entire context, and, in judging the German version of the Declaration it must be kept in mind that it is a translation from the American original. Jehovah's Witnesses were not prepared to subject themselves to any earthly rulership. They maintained "strict neutrality." This position certainly leaves no room for "currying the favor" of Hitler. Notice, too, that the Declaration does not address him as "Fuhrer" and does not conclude with the words "Heil Hitler," as was the case during that time on most documents from churches to state authorities. A summary of the Declaration of 25 June 1933 demonstrates the following self-evident principles: 1. A refutation of the charges that the Witnesses were financed by Jews or communists; 2. The declaration of their absolute neutrality in politics, that their activity was solely religious; 3. The opposition to the (Catholic) Church, which is seen as a political institution; and, 4. A proclamation of being true followers of Jesus Christ and disciples of him. Each argument was supported by quotations from the Bible as the only authority and guide for the action of Jehovah's Witnesses. It is also interesting to note the emphatic statement from Jehovah's Witnesses that they "have no criticism of any honest religious teacher"; what they criticize is the "wrongful religious influence in the political affairs of the nation." It cannot even be said that they criticized the teachings of other churches: "We [the Jehovah's Witnesses] do not object to or try to hinder anyone's teaching or believing what he desires." The anticlerical views of Jehovah's Witnesses were, however, quite clear. They explicitly mentioned the Catholic Church and the Jesuits as their enemies. Almost naively they advertised that their "American brethren have greatly assisted in (their) work in Germany," but that the secularization of the churches in America was unjustifiable. And if it seems that their view of the League of Nations was shared with Hitler, it was not because they agreed with Hitler but due to their own religious view of the world. According to a former Nazi official, the fact that the Witnesses included end-of-the-world prophecies in their Declaration as a central teaching at a time when Hitler endeavored to build his own millennium must have seemed, in his eyes, to be nothing less than an invitation to fight. The absence of influence by the antisemitic vocabulary of the time is seen from the Declaration's free and unabashed use of Old Testament quotations that include the name of "Zion." The Declaration climaxed in the statement that since Jehovah's Witnesses have put themselves on God's side, all who fight against them are bound to lose: "But as for us, we will serve Jehovah forever." If Hitler ever read this Declaration personally, the result must certainly have been one of his historical fits of rage. According to the Witnesses, one particular story has it that upon reading the Declaration Hitler exclaimed: "This brood must be exterminated from Germany."(n20) When the entire text of the Declaration of 25 June 1933 and the letter to Hitler are seen today in the context of the history of Jehovah's Witnesses during the period of National Socialism in Germany and the history of their religious resistance and their stand during the Holocaust, then the text does not present itself as an "antisemitic statement" or an attempt at "currying the favor" of Hitler. These accusations, stemming from present-day church circles, are deliberate manipulations and falsifications of history, seemingly motivated by guilt over the churches' own involvement or lack or involvement in the persecutions. At the time of the 1933 convention and even later, governments, statesmen, and diplomats from all countries were freely negotiating with Hitler and showing him their respect and reverence. Even in 1936, as thousands had already been put into concentration camps (with Jehovah's Witnesses among the very first), the international Olympic games were held under the emblem of the Swastika. It is possible to see the Declaration as absurd or ridiculous from a secular point of view in its completely unrealistic judgment of the political situation. This seems to be the case with those critics from church circles who seek to find strategic failings in the resistance of the Witnesses in the fact that the Watchtower Society was under American leadership. This is an entirely secular evaluation that shows more about the churches and their own internal makeup than it contributes to the search for truth. The official churches were, and are, so firmly integrated into the political and social establishment of the state that they are themselves an integral part of the secular world. As religious institutions in the time of the Nazi reign, they were unfit to follow the commands of the Bible in a literal way or to motivate a majority of their members to do so. Only a few individuals from the two large churches, acting independently, were exceptions to the generally collaborative or indifferent church membership. CONCLUSION The worldview of the Jehovah's Witnesses did not conform to the logic of the "rational human mind"--if it did, the obvious conclusion would have been that one cannot resist Hitler's dictatorship and that a non-violent resistance on the part of a small religious group would lead to its elimination. It was the "logic of absolute faith" of a biblical-fundamentalist Christian group that made possible this resistance based on faith. It is amazing that the churches, of all groups, today are forcing a religious community to come forward and justify the resistance it made in those times, when irrefutable evidence proves that this religious group demonstrated unique steadfastness and had to make extraordinary sacrifices. The resistance of Jehovah's Witnesses proved two things: first, that the size of the religious group resisting the Nazis had nothing to do with outcomes; and second, that a pacifist resistance in the form of refusal to cooperate was possible--and that the price for this was often one's own life. These are the answers to give to those later generations who ask: "Why did you not do anything?" As publications of the recent past demonstrate, the research into these forgotten victims of Nazi persecution has only just begun. To the established Protestant and Catholic churches of Germany, this means a renewed challenge, not only to deal with their own past failings, but to reconcile these failings with their claim to be followers of Jesus Christ. One things stands out clearly from the moving eyewitness accounts in the video documentation program "Jehovah's Witnesses Stand Firm Against Nazi Assault" (1996): there were no directions from the Central Office of the Watch Tower Society. The directions all came from the Holy Scriptures, both the Old and New Testaments. Jehovah's Witnesses can rightfully claim to have resisted the "wicked." In a literal sense they have fulfilled their own claim of being true followers of Jesus Christ, while the two large churches in Germany, as they openly admit, failed terribly. Six decades later it is now time to show them respect in the name of Christianity. Without the example of this steadfast Christian group under the oppression of the National Socialist dictatorship, we would--after Auschwitz and the Holocaust--have to doubt whether it is at all possible to fulfill the Christian teachings of Jesus. http://jehovah.to/gen/holocaust/yonanart.htm
  23. 3 points
    TrueTomHarley

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    Give them permanent “W”s
  24. 3 points
    Melinda Mills

    JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

    I would say it another way: False religion is a snare and a racket. Not hard to correct. Abel had a religion and all of God's servants since. Definition of religion: Concise Oxford Dictionary: belief in, worship of, or obedience to a supernatural power or powers considered to be divine or to have control of human destiny; 2 any formal or institutionalized expression of such belief, e.g. the Christian religion. ...5. something of overwhelming importance to a person.
  25. 3 points
    I think that one is excellent too. It follows the same general format of showing how the Bible answers the Big Question of how problems on earth will be solved through God's Kingdom. The angle of Truth and Trust in the Bible is the theme. Again, there is nothing stated in this magazine that should produce any unresolved questions. I believe even JTR would have to rate it somewhere near 100 percent useful, rather than his oft-repeated 15/85 rating. I'm going to try not to get drawn into a 1914 discussion, at least not on this particular thread/topic. But I do understand what you are saying. I'm not sure how far back you are going, because even up to as recently as 2014, there were plenty of references that could have meant what you refer to. The Isaiah 44/45 (Babylon-Cyrus) prophecy comes across as the most amazing prophecy to outsiders. It's simple, and it's used, of course, in the self-run free study on the JW.ORG website. The only persons for whom it would not work so well are those who believe that "Isaiah II" were chapters tacked onto the original book of Isaiah after the Babylonian exile. If you listen closely to the Faith In Action -"Out of Darkness" Part 1 video, I think it's clear that Daniel's "prediction" of 1914 is a better example for "insiders." An outsider would have too many unresolved questions: Most outsiders aren't into this idea that the Bible pinpoints dates for end-times prophecies. They would wonder why wicked Nebuchadnezzar's rulership pictures Jesus' Messianic rulership. They would wonder why we give it an additional application when the scripture itself explicitly says the application is to Nebuchadnezzar, and says nothing about an assumed second application. And they would wonder how we got 1914 from 7 times anyway. It doesn't even say 7 times are 7 years (that takes another scripture from a completely different context). And if it did mean 7 times were 7 years here, it doesn't say that those years were actually 360-day years, which also comes from its use in a different context. And if it did mean that 7 times were 360-day years, it doesn't say that those 7 times 360 have to each be multiplied again by 365.25. That's because the day-for-a-year idea also comes from a different context. And if they looked into it more deeply, they might wonder why we were forced to use a mix of secular dates for some events and pseudo-secular dates for some other events. Some of the dates we accept are the same as the secular dates, and some are 20 years different from the secular dates, but this time in the same context. They might wonder why a Bible prophecy would even rely on secular dates in the first place since the Bible itself never uses a secular date like 539 BCE, 607 BCE, 587 BCE, 33 CE, etc. They might wonder why we inconsistently claim that these "seven times" must be multiplied by 360, then multiplied again by 365.25 days each, when we claim that all uses of the term "three and a half times" in the Bible (Daniel & Revelation) should NEVER be multiplied again by 365.25, but only multiplied by 360. And even then, we allow for round-off in the use of "three and a half times." And if they looked into Babylonian and Jewish calendar systems a bit closer, they might notice that there was no such thing as a period of 7 years that did not contain at least two (sometimes three) intercalary months so that the number of days in ALL 7 year periods would always be closer to 2,568 days, not 2,520. Some of these questions would likely remain unresolved to an outsider, no matter how well we tried to explain them. They work for most those of us on the inside, because we generally trust that all those questions were probably resolved by persons who have a lot more holy spirit available to them than we do. So we just accept that we don't have to ask such questions. Besides, when I mentioned the "Out of Darkness" video, I am primarily referring to the very fact that this prophecy is used as one that is supposed to prove that Jehovah was using Russell (not Daniel). At the 44:20 mark in that video, we hear Brother Gerrit Lösch say: ". . . it enhanced their trust that Jehovah was using Brother Russell and his friends to explain truth to others." At the 44:30 mark in the video, we hear Brother Anthony Morris say: ". . . it's still significant that they could pinpoint that year. That's phenomenal!" This is hardly about the original prophecy anymore. In effect, this 1914 prophecy is therefore our own "internal" evidence (bragging rights) that there was an element of true inspiration from Jehovah to those who were supposedly "wise" enough to pinpoint that year by jumping through mental hoops that Daniel would have never dreamed of.
  26. 3 points
    You have deflected to the Boy Scouts. In your mind, you are desperately trying to preserve a corrupt leadership/organization that claims to represent the Almighty God. Is it not more important to preserve our relationship with God, rather than with men who fail deliberately and repeatedly, to protect their "sheep"? I am more "vested" in the prophetic outcome of this organization, of which this matter only contributes to. When it is in your power, don’t withhold good from the one it belongs to. 28 Don’t say to your neighbor, “Go away! Come back later. I’ll give it tomorrow”—when it is there with you. 29 Don’t plan any harm against your neighbor, for he trusts you and lives near you. 30 Don’t accuse anyone without cause, when he has done you no harm. 31 Don’t envy a violent man or choose any of his ways; 32 for the devious are detestable to the Lord, but He is a friend to the upright. 33 The Lord’s curse is on the household of the wicked, but He blesses the home of the righteous; 34 He mocks those who mock, but gives grace to the humble. 35 The wise will inherit honor, but He holds up fools to dishonor. Prov 3:27-35
  27. 3 points
    He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god. This has to be the GB of JW Org. They have exalted themselves above every other human on this earth. Above all of the true Anointed. Even to a point above Jesus Christ.
  28. 3 points
    Concerning "Animals being given undo importance" .... We are very fragile, big ugly bags of mostly water and require a LOT of things :of the world to stay alive, and healthy, and emotionally stable. I have 16 pet chickens ( two died of heat exhaustion, from being run around the yard by my dogs, after flying out of their temporary enclosure, and I buried them this morning in the yard with little plastic pipe "tombstones" which I melted into the side with a soldering iron their names and date of death, which was yesterday). And yet ... when I die, I do not care if I am just left where I fall, or someone puts my remains in a dumpster. And yet ... today at Golden Corral, my wife and I ate fried chicken, and I pondered "Am I a hypocrite, for loving both live chickens ... and those crispy fried??" I looked at myself in the mirror, and noticed my eyes are in front (predator), and the chickens' eyes are on the side of their heads (prey), and decided that that is the natural order of things, and I should just get used to it, without recriminations. Besides .... "Love Never Fails" .... and when I die, I will probably be too tough to eat, and with the fried chicken .... it's no one we know.
  29. 3 points
    You are world class! I performed for the adults in the little piano school I go to, but you performed for the world! It pleased me mightily! The teacher is a young woman about 30, but she is professionally trained and has the insight of a 60 year old. She was helping us to get over our fear of performing. That was my second performance. The first one was at a nice new school on a new piano. It was held in February. Audience of about 200. I played Hungarian Rhapsody Theme. Yesterday was just an end of term performance so we could help our peers get over performance fears. I played Black Forest Polka and a piece I used to play when I was eleven in key of G. They were astounded I could still remember it although I never had the book with it. It was owned by the teacher. She would let me play from that book for a change. "If you don't recognize the tune, it never made the cut for Kingdom Songs." Too funny! I enjoyed it so much that although I know the piece, I can't write the name of it. Sounds like Bach. My preferred kind of music is classical, so you did well. Hi JWI, Funny but I am still playing Kingdom Songs from the big brown 1984 book. (And my copy still looks new) They are about seven songs in there that I used to play well (13, 14,15 , 17 and 201) and I have just continued where I left off. In the new book I am working on No 43 - A Prayer of Thanks and 115 Gratitude for Divine Patience which I also used to play before. I pick the ones where the music is simpler. I rather play in C than with four flats or sharps. The best one is 15 Life without End - At Last! No. 15 in the old book in the key of C. In the new book it is in Aflat major I think with four flats. I sometimes turn the function key from piano to Pipe (Church) Organ and pretend to be an organist. Some brothers are prejudiced to the organ, so I play it for myself. These new electric pianos can sound like almost any instrument by just the touch of a switch. Love of music is God-given and he is not against music, but everything must be put in its place. I decided to continue my music as it is said to help the brain. If you don't use it you lose it. Music helps us to use a part of the brain that is not frequently used. It also helps to build a high level of discipline, listening ability, appreciation, tolerance and other good qualities. Look up the benefits. They have also come across quite a few Alzheimers persons who can still play although they are not very functional otherwise. So that says something. It helps one also to be able to enjoy oneself when alone. So don't put the harmonica back into the case, do a little practise every day. Hope to post something if I get it recorded. Like you and Anna, I like Bible study, language, fine art and music. If they put me in prison rest assured I will sing not Dee Dum Bum Bum , but "Firm and Determined in this Time of the End... from "Forward You Witnesses!" 29 in 1984 book. Was singing it since the 1950s, so don't think that is coming out of my brain now. I will simply read and sing the new words but the old words are etched there for good. (Let Rook know)
  30. 3 points
    As far as I know, there are strict outlines that are closely adhered to, and from my experience of conventions, the same talks by different brothers sound pretty much alike. Not word for word of course, otherwise it wouldn't be an outline but a script. But the likely hood of them sounding completely different is unlikely. That is not to say some elder couldn't slip in his own ideas, something he maybe feels passionately about. Especially at a KH. This happens very rarely now though, and especially not at conventions. I remember one elder years ago, had something against Teenage Ninja Turtles, and counseled parents in his talk about how it was not appropriate for a Christian to allow their children to play with those toys. You know that was NOT in the outline. Nevertheless, there were parents that made their kids throw away all their treasured Ninja Turtles.... talk about imposing your own conscience on others! This is one reason why the outlines now have become very specific, and have to be strictly followed, so that this kind of thing does not happen.
  31. 3 points
    He does. That’s half the problem. Working up a better answer. Time is a little tight now.
  32. 3 points
    It's quite clear from your words that they are INTENDED to apply only to your agenda. If all four legged animals are horses ... then a cow must, by your logic, be a vegetable. Your Billy-think is fully evidenced by calling JW Insider "?winsider", and thinking his screen name is an affront against God. Using that same logic, Jehovah's last name is .ORG.
  33. 3 points
    what I meant is that I don’t plan to pursue it. However, JWI himself responded, so I will. He has extraordinary powers granted him by the Librarian (that old hen). He can divide into a separate thread if he wants to. One college kid asked, when I proposed coming back, “To what end?” It was a question I’d not been asked before. I explained that in my ideal scenario I would return 100 times and engage in 100 different conversations and on the 101st I would ask him if he wanted to be a Jehovah’s Witness like me and at that time he should say ‘No.’ I even asked him to rehearse. “Let me show you how it would work. I am going to ask you to become a Witness like me and I want you to say “No.” Would you do that? He agreed. “Would you like to become a Witness?” I asked. “No,” he said. “You see? Nothing to worry about. It’s just conversation. You’ll learn your way around the Bible in the meantime. The moment you tire of it, just let me know. No one is easier to get rid of than Tommy.” The anticult people try to spin our calls as “recruiting.” That’s why the outrage some have over the recent letter expressing condolences over someone’s loss. If they just took it at face value, they’d be okay with it. We should not let those scoundrels define the game. Are we “recruiting?” I suppose so, but in the most non-threatening way possible, so that only by really stretching the point could we be said to be doing it. And it is not an immediate goal—telling the good news of the kingdom is. College is far more indoctrinating than anything having to do with Jehovah’s Witnesses. The typical student is separated 24/7 from his or her previous stabilizing routine and people—a classic tool of brainwashing. (I didn’t actually go through the rehearsal with him. Our best lines always occur to us too late. But that does not mean that I won’t do it when the situation is right.)
  34. 3 points
    TrueTomHarley

    NEW TV-JW.ORG FEATURED PROGRAMMING!

    You bring this up so frequently (and HOW old are you?) that I have become curious over something: Please post a full-length photo of yourself. If, as I suspect, it shows you wearing spray-on pants, that will explain a lot.
  35. 3 points
  36. 3 points
    Anna

    REPROOF FROM THE PLATFORM

    I'm just trying to be fair, and I believe the truth is the truth and a lie is a lie no matter who says it.
  37. 3 points
    LOL. I'm always happy to address a challenge. In this case you have claimed that I stole unauthorized material, perhaps hoping to use it against the Watchtower, somehow. I did not steal anything. And I'm not sure what would make certain material "unauthorized." I suppose you could argue that only material that was published in our publications was authorized. But does that mean that everything else that any Bethelite saved or collected must be destroyed? Really? Also, this first letter I shared actually went out to a sister and was therefore "published" (with only minor alterations) and the material was reused for future letters on the topic. I have three letters from Governing Body members that were written to me personally. Should I destroy them? One was a letter of recommendation to help me get a secular job after I left Bethel. Do you really think we should be ashamed of or hide anything that goes on behind the scenes at Bethel? You think that we shouldn't talk about any of these things, or that we shouldn't share anything that was written? You appear to be afraid that this material I saved could be used against the Watchtower, somehow. Anything that I kept, I saved out of a spirit of appreciation for the experience I had at Bethel, which was a wonderful experience. I wanted to remember it and I kept things that would help me remember it. If I had wanted to find a way to use them against the Watchtower, I don't think I would have waited about 40 years to share them. I admit that I have also shared experiences from Bethel that we could (and should) learn from. Even a negative experience could be profitable to others. I find that most people hold back on this count because they think that certain types of negative experiences cannot be profitable to anyone. This flies in face of scripture. Did Paul hold back from telling the Galatians and Corinthians about negative experiences? Did Jesus hold back? Did not Paul say we should be imitators of Paul himself? (Acts 20:20) while I did not hold back from telling you any of the things that were profitable . . . (1 Corinthians 10:6-12) . . .Now these things became examples for us, in order for us not to desire injurious things, as they desired them. 7 Neither become idolaters, as some of them did; just as it is written: “The people sat down to eat and drink. Then they got up to have a good time.” 8 Neither let us practice sexual immorality, as some of them committed sexual immorality, . . . 11 Now these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for a warning to us upon whom the ends of the systems of things have come. 12 So let the one who thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall. (1 Corinthians 4:14-5:6) 14 I am writing these things, not to put you to shame, but to admonish you as my beloved children. . . . 16 I urge you, therefore, become imitators of me. . . . 18 Some are puffed up with pride,. . . 5 Actually sexual immorality is reported among you, and such immorality as is not even found among the nations. . . 6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven ferments the whole batch of dough? Neither Jesus nor Paul held back from sharing things that were profitable, both old and new. (Matthew 13:51, 52) . . .” 52 Then he said to them: “That being the case, every public instructor who is taught about the Kingdom of the heavens is like a man, the master of the house, who brings out of his treasure store things both new and old.” (Mark 4:22) . . .For there is nothing hidden that will not be exposed; nothing is carefully concealed that will not come out in the open.
  38. 3 points
    The Librarian

    The Scorpion and The Frog

    "Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots ? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil " Jeremiah 13:23 You've no doubt read the old fable about the scorpion and the frog. It illustrates how man's nature is much more devious and controlling than is his logic. The fable says how,... " One day a scorpion arrived at the bank of a river he wanted to cross, but there was no bridge. He asked a frog that was sitting nearby if he would take him across the river on his back. The frog refused and said,... " I will not, because you will sting me " The scorpion replied,..." It would be foolish for me to sting you because then we would both drown " The frog saw the logic in the scorpion's words, and agreed to carry the scorpion across. But when they were halfway across the river the scorpion stung the frog. The stunned frog asked,..." Why did you sting me, now we will both die ! " The scorpion replied,... " Because I'm a scorpion … and that's what scorpions do " Sad to say some people today are more concerned about being " politically correct " than they are about being " Biblically correct ",... They change the name of sins to justify people's sinful behavior. They do this because they are more concerned about the approval of man than they are about the approval of Jehovah God. To Jehovah God, sin—all sin—is sin by whatever name we call it, and all sin is ultimately self-destructive regardless of how we seek to justify it. Furthermore, God's Word reminds us that no matter how good, how noble, how educated, how refined, or how sophisticated we may be, we are all sinners. Romans 3:23 Like the leopard that cannot change its spots neither can we change our nature. We are not sinners because we sin, but rather, we sin because we are sinners. That's our nature and that's why we need Jehovah God's salvation to save us from the eternal consequences of our sin—which is eternal separation from Jehovah God for all eternity.
  39. 3 points
    The Librarian

    THOUGHTS FOR THE DAY

    Its not a head full of knowledge and answers, but a heart full of love that moves us to live up to our dedication to Jehovah. One should engage the brain before releasing the mouth to speak. Never ! never! put a question mark where Jehovah has put a period. When experiencing trials remember Jehovah did not remove the Red Sea, he made the way out for the Israelites to cross it. The test of our faith is our eagerness to proclaim the good news. Jehovah will supply, but we must apply. Be not like the rooster who thought the sun rose 'to hear him crow' We dare not violate the law of love any more than we can defy the law of gravity It is not our position but our disposition that makes us happy. A man travels the world over in search of what he needs and returns home to find it. If there were not so many of me , I would know myself better The emphasis Jesus placed on a Christian's loving his neighbour helps one to avoid the danger that every time a person thinks he will be thinking of himself Some people insist that they do not tell lies, yet they scheme to present the truth in such a way that no one recognizes it. Deliverance into God's new order will mean living in perfect health and happiness in a delightful garden-like earth, under one government earth wide What should not be heard by little ears should not be said by big mouths Hearing truth and not accepting it does not change truth into error. The learning and knowledge that we have is at most but little compared with that of which we are ignorant. In the book "The Nations Shall Know that I am Jehovah"- How ?, one of the many reasons given for Jehovah's wrath against Christendom is: "Jehovah hates being treated by religious hypocrites like a God who can be fooled." The scriptures are a storehouse of happiness that enriches the mind and heart. So read it everyday for the sheer pleasure of it. Sin is not in things but in the wrong use of things. Jehovah listens to our hearts rather than our lips. The best human relations can be obtained if we live by the advice we give to others.
  40. 3 points
    The only way to learn the truth about whether "global warming" is real ... and whether it is a naturally occurring phenomena that mankind can do NOTHING about, or is caused by human interaction with the environment, which may or may not be able to be stopped or reversed, is to YOU PERSONALLY educate yourself with the math, physics, chemistry, meteorology, and ocean sciences, and orbital mechanics, etc., ..... to be able to tell the difference between hoax, fraud, fake science, and religious hysteria and hallucination that this issue has become. And then sit down and draw sketches, accumulate data ... possibly completely wear out a scientific pocket calculator .... or two, and then correlate what you PERSONALLY know with astronomy, and other related sciences ... comparing the physics of other planets' atmospheric meteorology to see if conclusions by others make sense, or have any validity whatsoever. If you are not willing to YOU PERSONALLY do this ... and take a decade, or 20 years, or the rest of your life ... then your opinions will be based on FAITH .... NOT SCIENCE. FAITH in the opinions and conclusions of others .... the new global religion of "Man Caused Climate Change". Faith in the opinions and conclusions of others, where you have not PERSONALLY proved it yourself, is not TRUTH. Seek ONLY THE TRUTH. In science, and in religion, and in all things. However, although you will fail to get the correct answers ...... intellectual integrity can also be accomplished by not caring, to the point you do not believe anybody, about anything. ... and is a LOT less work.
  41. 3 points
    Not only will I not spoon feed you, but I will revisit a prior contribution of yours where you feigned concern for brothers in Russia. Of course, in one sense it’s not feigning. It’s real. I know that. But in a truer sense it is a good cop/bad cop scenario in which the good cop really hopes that his prey does not fall into the clutches of the bad cop because he knows how bad that cop can be. Nevertheless the two are working in tandem, with the identical goal - in this case that Jehovah’s Witnesses not be Jehovah’s Witnesses. I would submit that the good cop is the worst of the two in a sense, for he keeps his malice concealed, and approaches in the guise of a friend. It is in your case that the passage of Matthew 10:28 most readily applies. [Jesus words:] “do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Ge·henʹna.” A thug is a thug is a thug. His malice is easily understood. Not so with one who poses as a friend/benefactor on the Internet. You big baby! @JW Insider can hit 8000 words and not even break a sweat!
  42. 3 points
    RECHERCHONS DES PERLES SPIRITUELLES - SEMAINE DU 11 FEVRIER 2019 - ROMAINS 4-6.docx RECHERCHONS DES PERLES SPIRITUELLES - SEMAINE DU 11 FEVRIER 2019 - ROMAINS 4-6.pdf JOYAUX DE LA PAROLE DE DIEU Recherchons des perles spirituelles (8 min) : Romains 4-6 Romains 6:3-5 : Que signifie être baptisé « dans Christ Jésus » et « dans sa mort » ? (w08 15/6 29 § 7). « ou bien ne savez-vous pas que nous tous qui avons été baptisés dans Christ Jésus, nous avons été baptisés dans sa mort ? 4 Nous avons donc été enterrés avec lui par notre baptême dans sa mort, afin que, de même que Christ a été ressuscité par la gloire du Père, nous aussi nous menions une vie nouvelle. 5 Si nous nous sommes unis à lui dans la ressemblance de sa mort, à coup sûr nous serons aussi unis à lui dans la ressemblance de sa résurrection » Quand Jéhovah oint des disciples de Christ avec l’esprit saint, ceux-ci sont unis à Jésus et deviennent des membres de la congrégation, qui est le corps de Christ, dont lui-même est la Tête (1 Cor. 12:12, 13, 27 ; Col. 1:18). C’est leur baptême dans Christ Jésus. Les chrétiens oints sont aussi “ baptisés dans [l]a mort ” de Christ en ce sens que leur vie constitue un sacrifice et qu’ils renoncent à tout espoir de vie éternelle sur la terre. Leur mort a donc un caractère sacrificiel, comme celle de Jésus, même si elle n’a pas de valeur rédemptrice. Ce baptême dans la mort de Christ s’achève quand ils meurent et qu’ils sont ressuscités pour la vie au ciel. - w08 15/6 29 § 7 Romains 6:3, qui dit : “ Ne savez-vous pas que nous tous qui avons été baptisés dans Christ Jésus, nous avons été baptisés dans sa mort ? ” Ce verset ne laisse aucun doute : il n’est pas question d’un baptême auquel un chrétien se soumet en faveur de quelqu’un qui est déjà mort, mais plutôt de quelque chose qui a une incidence sur son propre avenir. C’est Jéhovah Dieu qui se charge de donner ce baptême dans Christ Jésus ainsi que le baptême dans sa mort. Il oignit Jésus, ce qui fit de lui le Christ ou Oint. Ainsi, Dieu baptisa Jésus avec l’esprit saint afin que, par Jésus, ses disciples puissent être par la suite baptisés avec de l’esprit saint. Par conséquent, ceux qui deviennent ses cohéritiers, qui ont l’espérance céleste, doivent être “ baptisés dans Christ Jésus ”, c’est-à-dire dans Jésus Oint, qui, au moment de son onction, fut aussi engendré pour être un fils spirituel de Dieu. Ils deviennent de cette manière unis à lui, leur Chef, et deviennent membres de la congrégation qui est le corps de Christ. L’objectif des disciples chrétiens qui sont baptisés dans Christ Jésus consiste à rester intègres dans l’épreuve à partir du moment où ils sont baptisés dans Christ ; ils affrontent chaque jour la mort pour finalement mourir intègres. Le baptême de ces chrétiens oints dans la mort de Christ s’achève quand, après être morts fidèles, ils sont ressuscités créatures spirituelles pour régner avec Christ au ciel - it-1 p266-267 Romains 6:7 : Pourquoi les ressuscités ne seront-ils pas jugés en fonction des péchés qu’ils auront commis avant leur mort ? (w14 1/6 11 § 1). « Car celui qui est mort a été acquitté de son péché ». Après leur résurrection, les injustes seront-ils jugés sur la base de leurs actions passées ? Non. Une fois morts, les injustes auront payé pour leurs péchés. Ils seront donc jugés sur la base de ce qu’ils feront après leur résurrection, et non de ce qu’ils auront fait quand ils étaient dans l’ignorance, avant de mourir. Comment pourront-ils mettre à profit leur nouvelle vie ? Les injustes ressuscités auront l’occasion de prendre connaissance des lois de Dieu, qui seront révélées à l’ouverture de rouleaux symboliques. Ils seront alors jugés « selon leurs actions », c’est-à-dire selon leur façon de réagir aux lois de Dieu (Révélation 20:12, 13). Pour bon nombre de ces injustes, ce sera, non une seconde chance, mais la première véritable occasion d’obtenir la vie éternelle sur terre en apprenant à connaître la volonté de Dieu et en l’accomplissant - w14 1/6 11 § 1 Les ressuscités seront jugés en fonction de ce qu’ils feront pendant le jour du jugement, et non sur la base de ce qu’ils auront fait avant leur résurrection. . Des “ rouleaux ” seront ouverts, et ce sont les actions que chacun accomplira après avoir pris connaissance de ces rouleaux qui détermineront si son nom sera écrit ou pas dans “ le rouleau de vie ”.Quand une personne meurt, elle ne continue pas à payer pour ses péchés. – TG2014 1/7 Les personnes qui sont mortes ont été acquittées — c’est-à-dire pardonnées — de leurs péchés. Après la mort, il n’y a pas d’autre punition pour les péchés. – wp2016/1 p16 Qu’est-ce que la lecture biblique de cette semaine t’a appris sur Jéhovah ? Comme Abraham, nous attendons que les promesses de Jéhovah se réalisent. Nous devons penser aux choses d’en haut. Sinon nous risquons de penser que ses promesses mettent trop de temps à se réaliser et nous prêcherons peut-être moins. Abraham a fait tout ce qu’il a pu pour Jéhovah. Et il pensait aux bienfaits que Jéhovah allait lui apporter. Il a eu foi en Jéhovah. C’est pour cela que Jéhovah a dit qu’il était son ami. (Romains 4:3) – ws2014 15/10 p22 §9 4:9-12. La foi d’Abraham lui a été comptée comme justice bien avant qu’il n’ait été circoncis, à l’âge de 99 ans. Dieu a ainsi montré de façon magistrale à quelle condition on peut être juste à ses yeux. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob et tous les fidèles serviteurs de Jéhovah qui sont morts ? « Ils sont tous vivants pour lui » (Luc 20:38). Jéhovah est le Dieu des vivants. Jéhovah est tellement certain de les ressusciter qu’il les considère comme vivants (Romains 4:16, 17). Il les gardera dans sa mémoire infinie jusqu’au moment où il a prévu de les ramener à la vie. Jéhovah est infiniment plus fort que la mort. La perspective de retrouver un être cher nous attire-t-elle ? Dans ce cas, souvenons-nous que Jéhovah est infiniment plus fort que la mort. Rien ne peut l’empêcher de réaliser sa promesse. – TG2013 1/ 2 p7 La foi d’Abraham était étroitement liée à son espérance. “ S’appuyant [...] sur l’espérance, il eut foi, pour qu’il devienne le père de beaucoup de nations. ” (Romains 4:18). C’est là un deuxième élément qui peut nous aider. Nous ne devrions jamais oublier que Jéhovah est “ celui qui récompense ceux qui le cherchent réellement ”. Si nous croyons vraiment à l’espérance chrétienne, toute notre vie sera, comme dans le cas d’Abraham, une démonstration de notre foi. – TG1999 1/1 §9 Quatre choses ont affermi la foi d’Abraham - Premièrement, il a démontré sa foi en Jéhovah en tenant compte de ce que Dieu lui disait. De nos jours, Jéhovah nous parle à travers la Bible, sa Parole inspirée Deuxièmement, sa foi était étroitement liée à son espérance (Romains 4:18). Nous ne devrions jamais oublier que Jéhovah est “ celui qui récompense ceux qui le cherchent réellement. Troisièmement, Abraham parlait souvent avec Jéhovah. Nous aussi nous pouvons parler avec Jéhovah en utilisant le don qu’est la prière par l’intermédiaire de Jésus Christ. Quatrièmement, Jéhovah soutenait Abraham quand ce dernier se laissait guider par Lui. Ces mêmes choses peuvent fortifier notre foi aujourd’hui. – TG1999 1/1 Paul a parlé d’Abraham, d’un homme de foi qui a vécu avant que Jéhovah ne donne la Loi à Israël et bien avant que Jésus ne meure pour nos péchés. Jéhovah a pourtant noté la foi remarquable d’Abraham et il l’a considéré comme juste (Romains 4:20-22). Pareillement aujourd’hui, Jéhovah peut considérer comme justes les chrétiens qui manifestent la foi et nourrissent l’espérance de vivre éternellement sur la terre. – TG2016/12 p13 §3 Les humbles ne peuvent connaître Jéhovah et devenir ses intimes que par l’intermédiaire de Jésus. C’est seulement grâce à Jésus que Jéhovah permet aux gens modestes d’être ses amis. Les humains étaient tous esclaves du péché. Comment les Écritures soulignent-elles cette vérité ? Paul a écrit : « Dieu nous recommande son propre amour en ce que — alors que nous étions encore pécheurs — Christ est mort pour nous » (Rom. 5:6-8). Jéhovah a fourni le sacrifice rédempteur de Jésus, non parce que les humains en sont dignes, mais parce qu’il les aime. – ws2014 15/8 p15 §9 Dieu nous a « aimés le premier ». Comment ? L’apôtre Paul répond : « Dieu nous recommande son propre amour en ce que — alors que nous étions encore pécheurs — Christ est mort pour nous » (Rom. 5:8). Par ce sacrifice remarquable, le sacrifice de son propre fils comme rançon en faveur des humains croyants, Jéhovah a démontré la véritable nature de l’amour. L’amour s’exprime en donnant et en agissant de manière désintéressée, ou avec abnégation. Grâce à cet acte extrêmement généreux, nous avons la possibilité d’aller vers Dieu pour bénéficier de son amour et, en retour, de lui montrer le nôtre TG2015 15/9 p23§2 La réconciliation rendue possible. Le péché crée une séparation entre Dieu et l’homme, car Jéhovah condamne le péché. Pour que le fossé entre l’homme et son Créateur puisse être comblé, il fallait donc que le péché soit réellement couvert. Mais Jéhovah Dieu a rendu possible la réconciliation entre lui et les humains pécheurs grâce à l’homme parfait Jésus Christ. Ainsi, l’apôtre Paul écrivit : “ Nous nous glorifions aussi en Dieu par notre Seigneur Jésus Christ, grâce à qui nous avons maintenant reçu la réconciliation. ” (Romains 5:11). Pour obtenir la faveur de Jéhovah, il faut accepter la réconciliation que Dieu offre par l’intermédiaire de Jésus Christ. Ce n’est que par ce moyen qu’il est possible d’accéder à la condition qui fut celle d’Adam avant qu’il ne pèche. Dieu révéla tout son amour en rendant cette réconciliation possible. Romains 5:6-10. - it-2 p679 Pourquoi Jéhovah peut traiter avec des humains imparfaits. Les normes de justice de Jéhovah lui permirent d’agir différemment avec les enfants d’Adam et Ève qu’avec Adam et Ève eux-mêmes. Pourquoi cela ? Ayant hérité du péché, c’est involontairement qu’ils viennent au monde créatures imparfaites, naturellement enclines au mal (Romains 5:12). Jéhovah avait donc une raison d’être miséricordieux envers eux - it-1 p1263 Comment pouvons-nous « saisir fermement la vie véritable » ? Nous devons mettre en pratique ce que nous apprenons dans la Bible. Mais ce n’est pas grâce à nos efforts que nous obtiendrons la vie véritable. Nous ne pouvons pas gagner la vie éternelle. C’est un cadeau de Jéhovah, une « faveur imméritée » (Romains 5:15). Notre Père céleste veut vraiment offrir ce cadeau à ses serviteurs. – bhs chap19 §22 C’est Jéhovah qui nous a donné un corps et la vie. Nous devons donc les utiliser comme il le veut. Nous devons prendre soin de notre corps. Sinon, aux yeux de Dieu, nous serons impurs (Romains 6:19). Nous ne pouvons pas adorer Jéhovah, qui nous a donné la vie, si, pour nous, la vie n’est pas précieuse. Ce sera peut-être très difficile d’abandonner de mauvaises habitudes. Mais si, parce que nous respectons la vie, nous faisons des efforts pour y arriver, Jéhovah nous aidera. – bhs chap13 §7 Quelles autres perles spirituelles as-tu découvertes dans la lecture biblique de cette semaine ? Qu’est-ce qui a aidé Abraham et Sara à rester fidèle à Jéhovah et à conserver leur joie ? Dans ses vieux jours, Abraham, qui croyait aux promesses divines, « devint puissant par sa foi » (Rom. 4:19, 20). Nous aussi, nous devons avoir une foi forte. Une telle foi ne dépend pas de notre âge, de nos aptitudes ou de notre situation. Nous renforçons notre foi en priant, en examinant la Parole de Dieu et en assistant aux réunions chrétiennes. – TG2015 15/7 p12 Quand nous prêchons, nous ressentons une paix durable parce que nous savons que nous faisons plaisir à Jéhovah et à Jésus, et cette paix nous aide à faire preuve d’endurance dans la prédication (Rom. 5:3, 4) – TG2018 P Mai p17 §15 Pour contrebalancer le péché d’Adam, il fallait que Jésus meure, non en enfant parfait, mais en homme parfait. N’oublions pas en effet qu’Adam avait péché volontairement, totalement conscient de la gravité et des conséquences de son acte. Pour que Jésus devienne “ le dernier Adam ” et couvre ce péché, il était nécessaire que sa fidélité à Jéhovah soit le fruit d’une décision mûre et consciente. L’ensemble de sa vie fidèle, achevée par sa mort sacrificielle, a ainsi constitué “ un seul acte de justification ”. Romains 5:18, 19. – cl p145 En quel sens Jésus est-il “ celui qui seul a l’immortalité ” ? - Le premier dont la Bible dit qu’il a reçu le don de l’immortalité est Jésus Christ. Les paroles inspirées de l’apôtre Paul en Romains 6:9 révèlent que Jésus ne possédait pas l’immortalité avant d’être ressuscité par Dieu. On lit : “ Christ, maintenant qu’il a été relevé d’entre les morts, ne meurt plus ; la mort ne domine plus sur lui. ”C’est pourquoi, lorsque 1 Timothée 6:15, 16 présente Jésus comme “ le Roi de ceux qui règnent et le Seigneur de ceux qui dominent ”, cela signifie qu’il se distingue de tous les autres rois et seigneurs en ce qu’il est “ celui qui seul a l’immortalité ”. En effet, les autres rois et seigneurs meurent puisqu’ils sont mortels, comme moururent aussi les grands prêtres d’Israël. En revanche, Jésus glorifié, établi par Dieu Grand Prêtre à la manière de Melkisédeck, a “ une vie indestructible ”. Hé 7:15-17, 23-25. Ici, le mot “ indestructible ” traduit le terme grec akatalutos, qui signifie littéralement “ indissoluble ” La vie immortelle que Jésus reçut à sa résurrection n’est pas seulement une vie sans fin : elle est à l’abri de toute détérioration ou dissolution, à l’abri de toute destruction - it-1 p1175
  43. 3 points
    JOHN BUTLER

    JW.ORG Defines Lap Dancing

    Sorry i find some of this funny, but of course it isn't funny from God's viewpoint. Any true Christian, well in my opinion, would not even enter such a place of 'entertainment'. But then I don't even drink alcohol and never go into pubs / bars, as i see no need for any on it.
  44. 3 points
    Witness

    Gerrit Lösch

    Gerrit Losch: "I do not direct and have never directed..." Wikipedia: Following a leadership dispute in the Bible Student movement, the Watch Tower Society remained associated with the branch of the movement that became known as Jehovah's Witnesses. In 1955, the corporation was renamed Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania. In 1976, all activities of the Watch Tower Society were brought under the supervision of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. In 1976, direction of the Watch Tower Society and of the congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide came under the control of the Governing Body, reducing the power of the society's president. The society has described the change as "one of the most significant organizational readjustments in the modern-day history of Jehovah's Witnesses." Following the death of Knorr in 1977, subsequent presidents of the Watch Tower Society have been Frederick W. Franz (June 1977 – December 1992); Milton G. Henschel (December 1992 – October 2000), Don A. Adams (October 2000 – 2014) and Robert Ciranko (incumbent). Adams and Ciranko are considered "helpers" to the Governing Body, which retains authority over the corporations. "Keep Holding Men of That Sort Dear". The Watchtower. 15 October 2015. p. 3. The Governing Body members make the final decisions, but the helpers implement the committee's direction and carry out whatever assignments they are given. The helpers accompany Governing Body members to special and international conventions. They may also be assigned to visit branch offices as headquarters representatives. ... Helpers to Governing Body Committees ... Publishing Committee—Don Adams ... Writing Committee—Robert Ciranko... Sounds like Mr. Losch is just plain lying.
  45. 3 points
    I agree with you, there is NOTHING Christ-like about allowing CSA or any abuse to continue because the "laws" of men don't require reporting it to the police. Can you even imagine, when the time comes, and Jesus is standing there asking each and every one of us about our life choices. When He asks, are some people really going to say "well, there wasn't a law stating we had to report CSA/abuse to proper authorities" Romans 14:10"...For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess[b] to God.” 12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God."
  46. 3 points
    “I was hanging in the suana with Fred thumbing a soggy copy of Ray’s book that Dan had squirreled out of the safe, hoping Albert wouldn’t go off on some spiel on UFOs or whatever, and that he would postpone his latest jetting around the globe gig, where he always made me ride baggage class, when...” uh oh, I’m not that sufficiently gets the job done.
  47. 3 points
    If Christ, who is one in Spirit with the Father (John 17:22), did not know who would betray him when choosing the 12 apostles, then how does the uninspired GB know they are the "faithful and discreet slave"? Luke 3:8; Matt 7:16
  48. 3 points
    I think this is why the delivering quality of “critical thinking” is overrated. Mob mentality takes over in most disciplines & those vested emotionally and/or financially seek to run the competition off the road. The average person has not the time, patience, or often interest to investigate. Sometimes those in dominance deliberately muddy the waters so that preoccupied ones will throw up their hands and say: ‘Oh, to hell with it! They”re all liars anyway.’ Many things ‘settled’ have been settled by decree. Many things ‘proved’ have been proved by ignoring evidence to the contrary.
  49. 3 points
    The relevant portion is translated through bing as follows. I don't speak Russian, but can just about read it phonetically. After letting Bing and then Google translate, Google did a very good job overall, but this one portion appears to be better in Bing, but only for this one particular sentence that I've marked in red below. ------------------ V. Putin: Thank you. With regard to the first of your stories about this African students got to see, of course, nonsense kakaja‑to. From what you are telling, it's just kakaja‑to nonsense. And, of course, need to do what you suggest, to analyze the enforcement practice. And, if necessary, make adjustments to the kakie‑to. B. Ryakhovskiy: For this girl to me now turned to the European Court of Justice, I have continued to ... Putin: I don't know what denomination it belongs, she is Christian, but there are also a lot of directions. Jehovah's witnesses, too, Christians are being persecuted, I also do not really understand. So we just need to analyze, it is necessary to do so. I will talk with Vyacheslav Mikhailovich, and try to do it. The Russian language original is 95% down into the page that @Outta Here provided above. В.Ряховский: По этой девушке ко мне сейчас обратились, для того чтобы я продолжал в Европейский Суд… В.Путин: Я не знаю, к какой конфессии она принадлежит, она христианка, но там тоже много направлений. Свидетели Иеговы тоже христиане, за что их преследовать, я тоже не очень понимаю. Поэтому надо просто проанализировать, надо это сделать. Я переговорю с Вячеславом Михайловичем, и попробуем это сделать. The key word here is преследовать, which oddly enough can mean basically "chase" and therefore it can mean both prosecute and persecute. Formally you should to add a phrase that means "judicially" or "by trial" (i.e. преследовать + в судебном порядке, or преследовать + по суду ) and it means prosecute. Without these additions, I think it really should mean persecute, especially if used with a religion or minority in the context. Therefore, it SHOULD mean persecute here, but I suspect this translation could legally be challenged as just a less formal way of meaning "prosecute." In fact, if you just go to translate.bing.com and type in преследовать, you will get the following, which includes both prosecute and persecute without the formal additions: Translations of "преследовать" VERB haunt преследовать, логово, мучить, обитать pursue преследовать, проводить, осуществлять, добиваться, стремиться, следуем chase чейз, погони, преследовать, преследование, догнать, гоняться, гоньбы prosecute преследовать, судебного преследования, обвинить, наказывать, уголовное преследование, сажать, осудить persecute преследовать harass преследовать, беспокоить, изводить, домогаться, докучать, запугивания stalk стебель, преследовать, ножке, черенок, плодоножки, стеблю, палочка obsessing преследовать, одержимы, увлеченно © 2018 Microsoft ------------------ For reference, I have also added Google's translation of larger portions of the context below. Both for the original question about JWs, and the context of the later discussion where Putin evidently brings up JWs on his own, even if the particular case (of the African med student "missionary" studying in Russia) was not a JW: -----------the rest of this post is Google's translation of excerpts from the link that Outta Here provided: ---------- There is also a list, for example, of organizations that also have information that they are involved in extremism and terrorism. There are 489 of them, 404 of them are Jehovah's Witnesses. I will make here an ominous pause. Many, perhaps, there are claims to Jehovah's Witnesses - they don’t transfuse blood, don’t send children to the hospital - but they certainly don’t call for violence and don’t carry it out. So 404 of 489 - this is it. That’s how many terrorist organizations we have in the Russian Federation. Thus, I would like to express the hope that the anti-extremist legislation will, let's say, be moderated in accordance with the requirements of society and in accordance with the real level of crime. Because everyone has more or less understood that these searches for pictures on social networks and the initiation of cases on this issue - this does not contribute to strengthening anything, it does not correspond to any state interests, it does not prevent any terrorist acts. As we can see, when, unfortunately, this kind of thing happens, these are people who did not follow these lists, who did not come into the view of law enforcement agencies, because, of course, they do not post pictures on VKontakte, they do not communicate among themselves in open communities. They coordinate their actions completely differently. Thank. V.Putin: Thank you very much. Ekaterina Mikhailovna, I am very pleased that the questions, rather sharp questions, were raised precisely by you - an employee of the Institute of Social Sciences under the President of the Russian Federation. E.Shulman: Yes, I am now twice under the President of the Russian Federation, both at the place of work and in social activities. V.Putin: See, everything is the same. And they require careful consideration, all the questions you raised. Regarding Jehovah's Witnesses. Probably, we can, and even should at some point, be much more liberal to representatives of various religious sects, but we should not forget that our society does not consist solely of religious sects. 90 percent of the citizens of the Russian Federation, or so, consider themselves Orthodox Christians. We have three more practically traditional our religions, which the state provides assistance. We should treat the representatives of all religions in the same way - this is true, but nevertheless it is also necessary to take into account the country and the society in which we live. True, this does not mean at all that we should include representatives of religious communities in some destructive ones, not even in terrorist organizations. Of course, this is complete nonsense, you need to carefully deal with it, here I agree with you. You always return me to the case of Ponomarev, he is probably a truly respected person. But the judge, when he made the decision, do you think I knew that he was making the decision? Of course not. But when a judge makes such decisions, he does not proceed from merit or from something else. If it were a simple citizen who few people know, even the question would not be raised. The law is the same for everyone. To close relatives could be released at parting, at the funeral, there is no other case in the law. The judge is guided by these direct instructions of the text of the law itself, that's all. There is nothing like that, there is no ambush here, there is no political motive. About unauthorized rallies. Let's still come back to this and see. You yourself mentioned, said about Paris. See, there are victims already affected. The fight is mainly in the center of the capital, and a state of emergency has been declared because of this. How many pogroms there are, burnt cars, shops, the losses are not only in the state, but also in people who have nothing to do with the state, they are enormous. And all this time - like a match, and everything started. This does not mean at all that we should not analyze our own life and not look after the law that is in place in our country. But still, we must understand the world we live in. Liberal approach to an unauthorized rally. The hard answer from the state what? Water cannons, gas, batons, hundreds of delays - hundreds, can you imagine? Don't we know that? More recently, there have been heavy events in which the Constitution of the Russian Federation was adopted in force, in conditions of growing civil war, in fact, civil war! Crowds of people with weapons ran across Moscow, stormed the Ostankino, crawled along some kind of underground facilities, communications. Regular units of the Russian army were brought into Moscow, internal troops were involved, and they still fired at each other, not understanding what was happening. Chaos! Carefully need to treat this very. Although, of course, it is necessary to analyze the conditions in which we live and the rules that govern our life, including its side, which you mentioned. Please, I beg you. ---------------- skipping to the area near the end where Putin brings up JWs on his own--------------- If the damage was mitigated, repaid, and the antisocial act is not so serious there. A.Sokurov: It is the New Year and Christmas amnesty. Vladimir Putin: Let's think, we have Christmas every year. We must carefully approach this. It is necessary to finish already. I promised, otherwise I will work until three in the morning. Here it is, that's all. Please, I beg you. V. Ryakhovsky: Vladimir Vladimirovich, thank you very much. To be honest, this is the first time in six years, the turn has reached me. I have two questions, I will try to short, saving time. In July 2016, a federal law was passed under the title “On the adoption of additional measures to counter terrorism”, the so-called “Spring Act” among the people. This law amended the law on freedom of conscience. The Law on Freedom of Conscience was supplemented by a chapter on missionary activity. The definition of missionary activity is given, the procedure for its conduct is established, to the extent that, in order for a person to speak about his convictions, he must be delegated by a religious organization and have a standard document. The Code of Administrative Offenses introduced Article 5.26 on establishing liability. A year and a half has passed, and I would very much like to ask the initiators of this law: has the goal, which was set by the authors, been achieved? According to this law, at least one extremist was held accountable? Nevertheless, law enforcement agencies initiated and brought to court more than 600 administrative cases involving representatives of various religious denominations, with the possible exception of one - the most widespread. These things are as unbelievable as imagination can probably be. Here is just one vivid example: Nizhny Novgorod, a student, a citizen of an African country, a sixth-year student at a medical university, is a little more than a month from state examinations. She gives an interview to one of the Internet channels, talks about herself, about her family, about her childhood, about how she has been a believer since childhood, a Christian, and in Russia she also comes to church, and all this helps her in her studies . Two administrative cases are brought against her. The first is for violating the rules of missionary activity, she is fined, the second is for violating the goals of staying in the Russian Federation. She arrived on a missionary visa, and here she says something about her convictions. And she is appointed in the second case a fine and expulsion from the Russian Federation. Fortunately, the appellate station probably had enough intelligence: they didn’t cancel these decrees, but they postponed her expulsion until they received the diploma, in just a few months. Interestingly, the basis of these cases was the expert opinion, which saw in this video hidden appeals, hidden missionary activity. That is, you understand what's the matter? Hidden. There are no obvious signs of missionary activity. And why are they not? Yes, because it is hidden, and because of this, she was brought to justice. I can bring a lot of such things, because this is part of my professional interests. The Constitution has a stable notion: when the freedom of conscience is revealed, it is said about the right to impart one’s beliefs. This measure, this rule of law appears, to put it mildly, simply manifestly excessive, it does not contribute to the harmonization of interfaith relations, but, on the contrary, leads to imbalance and violation of the constitutional rights of citizens. Therefore, Vladimir Vladimirovich, we kindly ask you to instruct the Supreme Court to simply summarize the practice. And then there are so many accumulated of these cases that you can just draw caricatures. It just comes to ridiculous! I just brought one thing, but in fact there are a lot of them. And to raise the question of generalizing this practice on 5.26 with respect to religious organizations, and in general, probably, raise the question of the expediency, to what extent is such regulation justified. There is the concept of "spreading religious beliefs." Why else to introduce the concept of "missionary activity"? The second question is completely irrelevant to this. Literally the day before, I had a meeting with several businessmen who responded to your May invitation to return to the Russian Federation after the years of emigration on the so-called Titov list. And indeed, it was precisely by believing your word and not doubting your innocence, because those behind whom there was something, I think, would not even come at your invitation. And the fact that several people have already returned to their homeland in the hope that, while at home, they will be able to recover and protect their good name. And one of the first defendants in the so-called Titov list, who returned to Russia after 13 years of forced emigration in London, became a businessman from Yekaterinburg Sergey Kapchuk. I met him. You should have seen his eyes after he arrived. Just burning, shining - he came home, he came, believing your call and believing that here is true today, unlike those years when he left, justice. But, alas, he encountered today the same methods of investigation from which he had once escaped. He was automatically charged since 2005. After reading the materials of the case, as he explained to me, the corruption scheme in the government of the Sverdlovsk region, in which it was used, simply became clear. They filed applications for the interrogation of specific people, heads of individual industries, confrontations - all of this consequence closes his eyes today, and, as we understood, is ready to bring the case to court, to hang up some conditional or slightly lax sentence, order to forget this thing. But he did not come for this. He did not come to be given a conditional sentence, not to be released under an amnesty, but to prove that he was innocent. Therefore, Vladimir Vladimirovich, kindly requested. The first is to give the General Prosecutor's Office to take over the cases of Sergei Kapchuk, and similar cases for the people who came, returned to Russia, to take control. And to you, of course, such a request, to still follow the fate of these people not until they returned, but in general, before the completion of their work. This case has a public outcry today. Why? Because others, those who still remain abroad today, they are closely watching the result of this business. This will be an example for them, as an urge to return to Russia too. And, fulfilling the request of Kapchuk, I just wanted to give you a short appeal from him. Thank you very much. V.Putin: Thank you. As for your first story about this African student, you need to look, of course, some sort of nonsense. From what you tell, it's just some kind of nonsense. And you need, of course, to do what you propose - to conduct an analysis of law enforcement practice. And if necessary, make some adjustments. V.Ryakhovsky: According to this girl, they now appealed to me, so that I would continue to the European Court ... V.Putin: I don’t know to which confession she belongs, she is Christian, but there are also many directions. Jehovah's Witnesses are also Christians, for which I do not really understand how to persecute them. Therefore, you just need to analyze, you need to do it. I will talk with Vyacheslav Mikhailovich, and try to do it. K. Kabanov: Thank you, Vladimir Vladimirovich. Dear Colleagues! You know, I actually, probably, in my 14 years of work, every time I hear that we have two problems: law enforcement agencies and bad laws. In fact, in the framework of the instructions you gave last time, Vladimir Vladimirovich, we dealt with the history of the criminalization of the teenage environment. But, as we were taught at previous duty stations, we must look deep into, look, study . . . .
  50. 3 points
    Outta Here

    Watch your children. (JW Fork)

    This is the ideal procedure. I have never been able to think of an alternative.




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