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Michel Vromen

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  1. So, make disciples in JESUS name, not in Jehovah's name.... go figure.
  2. I am not sure if I agree with the statement that the bible attached great importance to the death of Jesus. I mean, the importance was more on His role, both on earth and once he would return to heaven. His death as an element but his message was far more important. His death was a means, not the purpose. Some verses: Joh 16:28 I came from the Father and entered into the world, but in turn, I am leaving the world and going back to the Father.” Joh 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 1Ti 1:15 This saying is trustworthy and deserves full acceptance: “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners” – and I am the worst of them! Joh 6:33 For the bread of God is the one who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” But yes, his death had also a purpose, same as his coming into the world, his teachings and his example. All had a purpose. His death was the sacrifice for sins of the world.
  3. How many JW's like to debate / discuss the doctrines and/or practices of the WBTS? Or is it safe to say "Sadly, most JW's do not want to hear such things" Funny, but as it is a tradition in the JW community to be very date focused (1874, 1879, 1914, 1918/1919, 1925, 1975 etc), many JW's believe that for the outside world the date of 25 December is essential. Well, as the date was set by people who are not alive anymore, most people today either believe the date is correct and those that do not, do not really mind. In all cases, the date was not set by any of the people who live today. Therefore, the date has become more a so-called given and people just act accordingly. Compare that behaviour to JW's who act according to the dates the gb has set for the so-called invisible enthronement of Jesus in 1914. A date that is not found in the bible. As most JW's will likely say that they do not mind the accuracy of that date but more the meaning they attach to that event, so do most people who celebrate Christmas Are the customs linked to Christmas found in the bible? No,not in the sense that it has evolved to. But then again, is that relevant? Are these people dishonoring God because they give presents? They give food to the poor? They spend time with family and friends? They think about Christ? What is more a way to dishonor God? Impose doctrines on people in the name of talking on behalf of God and at the same time revising these doctrines many times, like the use of blood, organ transplant etc? Or is it to shun even you children because they are, according to 3 men, not repentent (enough), for which you cannot find any scripture in the bible to support that shunning practice? My point, do not look upon people who celebrate Christmas because they like to use that even to put more effort into helping others. Yes, in many western countries it has become a commercial event. But that is the commercial world, not all who participate in Christmas would support that.
  4. So, the date of so-called invisible enthronement of Jesus is also not mentioned in the bible by JW's still think it is October 1914. For most people who in same form participate in the Christmas celebrations do this not because of the date but because of the meaning of the event itself. If the birthdate would be in the bible, would JW's be allowed to celebrate?
  5. Questions: Based on what scripture is the statement: "Obedience males our spirituality progressively stronger" based? Obedience to whom or what is meant here? If the answer is: the gb of the WBTS, then show me any scriptural proof that obedience to men has made a person grow in spirituality (I assume with this word FAITH is meant..)
  6. The text is known but I doubt if all have the same explanation. Does it really say that no-one (believer) will ever be subjected to a trail that they cannot bear?? I believe it is only referring to (strong) temptations that are experienced as a trial. Still, I like to hear views of what this means in daily life. If it is true that God will prevent a believer to be tempted beyond what he/she can bear, it would mean that a believe will never fall for a temptation. Also worth to note: 11 tn The words “to bear” are not in the Greek text, but are implied. They have been supplied in the translation to clarify the meaning. Also, the RNWT (2013) does have a slightly different rendering: But God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear,+ but along with the temptation he will also make the way out so that you may be able to endure it. Instead of trial it is now tempted. Others use the word test.
  7. Would be good to see same tasks being done by elders, co's and gb members. In the end, did not Paul say this: 1Co 3:9 We are coworkers belonging to God. You are God’s field, God’s building. Jesus came to serve. He gave an example by washing the feet. Just saying.
  8. Seems funny or even interesting but use of the verse in 2 Peter 3 is incorrect. It is not meant to be used to calculate. It does not say 1 day IS EQUAL TO 1000 years. It gives the idea the time for humans is something completely different than for the Lord. In other words, not to be used to calculate. Also worthi noting that with the LORD in this verse, the Geek word is κύριος, which is a reference to Jesus. Compare Matt. 7:22 where same word is used. Therefore Peter is saying that time for Jesus has a different meaning than for humans.

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