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Albert Michelson

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  2. Upvote
    Albert Michelson got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Should JW's punish, disfellowship, or shun members who disagree with certain teachings?   
    Oh I forgot you're a witness so you see no problem in forcing someone into remaining silent about what they believe. 
    Ok I'll rephrase so we're on the same page.  If you reject the organization's teachings and cannot in good conscience continue to support a religion you believe to be false and you thereafter explain to someone else why you rejected that religion you can be punished .
     
  3. Upvote
    Albert Michelson got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Should JW's punish, disfellowship, or shun members who disagree with certain teachings?   
    What is the good news?
     
    The Bible is clear that even if someone had been clearly selected by god if they deviate from the truth they are to be rejected. 
     
    Galatians 1:8-9 However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed.  9 As we have said above, I also now say again, Whoever it is that is declaring to YOU as good news something beyond what YOU accepted, let him be accursed.
     
    This holds even more weight for ones like the GB who are not clearly selected and who's claim to authority rests solely on a demonstrably false interpretation of scripture.
    The organization claims that the 1914 teaching is necessary for salvation and even goes as far as to claim that the 1914 teaching is the good news spoken of in the Bible.
    *** w67 12/15 pp. 753-754 pars. 3-4 What Now Distinguishes the Good News to Be Preached ***
    "What a joy-inspiring addition or enlargement to the good news now to be preached! Now has come the victorious kingdom of our God together with the authority of his Christ, his Messiah! As for Satan the Devil and his demons, they have only a short period of time until they are bound and imprisoned in the abyss after the “war of the great day of God the Almighty” at Armageddon. All this additional wonderful information has been true since the end of the “appointed times of the nations” in 1914, and particularly since World War I closed in the year 1918. Not before the “appointed times of the nations” ended in the fall of 1914 could the good news be preached of the newborn, established heavenly kingdom of God and of his Messiah. This, then, must be the good news that Jesus Christ in his prophecy said had to be preached first in all the nations. (Mark 13:10) This generation of human society that has seen and experienced the world events since the Gentile Times closed in 1914—this is the “generation” that will not pass away until all the things foretold have happened, including the preaching of the good news first in all nations.
    4 Jesus’ prophecy in Mark 13:10, “Also, in all the nations the good news has to be preached first,” has not been undergoing fulfillment during the past nineteen centuries. It is only since the second decade of our twentieth century that this prophecy has been undergoing fulfillment. This began to be realized by the International Bible Students Association and the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society since the end of the second decade of our century. In the magazine issue of July 1, 1920, of The Watch Tower and Herald of Christ’s Presence the article was published entitled “Gospel of the Kingdom” and based on the theme text, “‘And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.’—Matthew 24:14.”
     It is for this reason that the organization is chained to the 1914 teaching. As the scripture I quoted above demonstrates the Bible says that one who teaches a good news that is false is cursed. If the organization admits that the 1914 and 1919 teachings are false they will have to admit that not only were they not selected as gods channel but that they have been teaching a false good news for the majority of their existence. It is for that reason that they disfellowship and shun people who cannot conscientiously remain in the faith. It's easier to just eliminate the opposition then to actually address the real issues with your theology. 
    *** w86 4/1 pp. 30-31 Questions From Readers ***
    Why have Jehovah’s Witnesses disfellowshipped (excommunicated) for apostasy some who still profess belief in God, the Bible, and Jesus Christ?
     
    "Approved association with Jehovah’s Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses. What do such beliefs include?
     
    That the great issue before humankind is the rightfulness of Jehovah’s sovereignty, which is why he has allowed wickedness so long. (Ezekiel 25:17) That Jesus Christ had a prehuman existence and is subordinate to his heavenly Father. (John 14:28) That there is a “faithful and discreet slave” upon earth today ‘entrusted with all of Jesus’ earthly interests,’ which slave is associated with the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. (Matthew 24:45-47) That 1914 marked the end of the Gentile Times and the establishment of the Kingdom of God in the heavens, as well as the time for Christ’s foretold presence. (Luke 21:7-24; Revelation 11:15–12:10) That only 144,000 Christians will receive the heavenly reward. (Revelation 14:1, 3) That Armageddon, referring to the battle of the great day of God the Almighty, is near. (Revelation 16:14, 16; 19:11-21) That it will be followed by Christ’s Millennial Reign, which will restore an earth-wide paradise. That the first to enjoy it will be the present “great crowd” of Jesus’ “other sheep.”—John 10:16; Revelation 7:9-17; 21:3, 4."
     
    This is supposedly a list of the fundamental doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses that all are required to believe. You will in most cases be disfellowshiped for not believing in one or more of them. Unfortunately the truth is most of them are false.
  4. Thanks
    Albert Michelson got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Should JW's punish, disfellowship, or shun members who disagree with certain teachings?   
    The primary issue is that you simply can't  be a witness and not believe in the 1914 teaching.  Because the 1914 teaching is the only justification that the organization can give for destroying families and punishing people for disagreeing with them.  If they are not appointed by God and if they are not gods spokesman then it shouldn't be an issue when someone contradicts them or disagrees with them.  Unfortunately in a master class of arrogance they decided to punish and expel anyone who doesn't agree with their opinions about what the Bible says.
    this elders letter is still the current stance as far as I know  and they make it very clear that simply believing something that contradicts the organization's position is potential grounds for disfellowshiping.


  5. Like
    Albert Michelson got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Should JW's punish, disfellowship, or shun members who disagree with certain teachings?   
    I agree,  The only issue is that you are in support of an organization that regularly violates human rights and actively persecutes people  Who cannot continue to worship in a way they see as unfit. 
     You just mentioned the persecution Jehovah's Witnesses are facing in Russia . Now I strongly detest the mistreatment those people  are undergoing.  However even though Jehovah's Witnesses will fight for their right to  openly express their religious beliefs they actively deny that right for others. 
  6. Like
    Albert Michelson got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Should JW's punish, disfellowship, or shun members who disagree with certain teachings?   
    What do you mean leave before that. I'm constantly harassed by witnesses asking why I'm no longer attending meetings and I can't have an honest discussion with them because I know what the  consequences will be. But as I said before you seem to have no issue when it comes to forcing someone to basically take a vow of silence and never express their reasons for leaving. 
     
  7. Thanks
    Albert Michelson got a reaction from Matthew9969 in Is there a contradiction with regard to freedom to change one's religion?   
    One cannot claim that the organization doesn't coerce people into remaining members when the are literally being blackmailed with the threat of family estrangement if they leave.
    To add context this is the elders letter instructing them to disfellowshipped someone who has apostate beliefs.  Mind you this says nothing as to whether or not they are promoting their beliefs just that they have believed that differ from what this aside he says they need to accept.
    however even if they were what's wrong with that? Don't JWs apostasize from their religious all the time? Why is it ok for  individuals to leave their respective religions, join the WT organization,  and speak out against their former religion but if someone who was previously a witness did this very thing then they deserve to be punished?


  8. Like
    Albert Michelson got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Is there a contradiction with regard to freedom to change one's religion?   
    He repetedly lies about disassociation being  an action an individual takes or that it is their choice to go through this process.  But this is a very interesting encounter and I think it gets at the crux of the issue. 
  9. Haha
    Albert Michelson got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Is there a contradiction with regard to freedom to change one's religion?   
    Sorry, you guys are pretty reasonable as fare as admitting simple facts go. For some witnesses unless I show them 10,000 pictures of young JW kids getting baptized then it doesn't happen and I'm a liar. 
    Same goes for almost everything else i say. They act like they've never been to a meeting or convention. 
  10. Haha
    Albert Michelson got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Is there a contradiction with regard to freedom to change one's religion?   
    That's not how cults thrive, they thrive by convincing their members that they have a unique form of worship. 
    And you may be right perhaps the bolstering of numbers isn't the primary goal. But you can't deny that witnesses love talking about the growth and how jehovah is "blessing the work"
  11. Like
  12. Like
    Albert Michelson got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Is there a contradiction with regard to freedom to change one's religion?   
    One cannot claim that the organization doesn't coerce people into remaining members when the are literally being blackmailed with the threat of family estrangement if they leave.
    To add context this is the elders letter instructing them to disfellowshipped someone who has apostate beliefs.  Mind you this says nothing as to whether or not they are promoting their beliefs just that they have believed that differ from what this aside he says they need to accept.
    however even if they were what's wrong with that? Don't JWs apostasize from their religious all the time? Why is it ok for  individuals to leave their respective religions, join the WT organization,  and speak out against their former religion but if someone who was previously a witness did this very thing then they deserve to be punished?


  13. Upvote
    Albert Michelson got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in Is there a contradiction with regard to freedom to change one's religion?   
    He repetedly lies about disassociation being  an action an individual takes or that it is their choice to go through this process.  But this is a very interesting encounter and I think it gets at the crux of the issue. 
  14. Like
    Albert Michelson reacted to TrueTomHarley in Should JW's punish, disfellowship, or shun members who disagree with certain teachings?   
    (Gulp!) I have done this on the rare occasions that they behave and say something worthwhile.
    Remember, even you-know-you says a good word every now and then. Besides, there is a certain air of comedy about this entire forum. Going for the jugular of your nemesis no matter what he says only lends it a ridiculous flavor.
  15. Haha
    Albert Michelson reacted to bruceq in Should JW's punish, disfellowship, or shun members who disagree with certain teachings?   
    "They publicly declare that they know God, but they disown him by their works, because they are detestable and disobedient and not approved for good work of ANY sort." Titus 1:16.
    All the upvoters of apostates just continue to prove the point. Keep it up. 
  16. Upvote
    Albert Michelson got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in Should JW's punish, disfellowship, or shun members who disagree with certain teachings?   
    Hmmm kinda reminds you of all the JW elders and their secret sins.  I love how witnesses always ask for the indiscretions of their members and leaders to be overlooked but continually harp on or about any issue with Ex members.  The hypocrisy is palpable.
  17. Downvote
    Albert Michelson got a reaction from bruceq in Should JW's punish, disfellowship, or shun members who disagree with certain teachings?   
    Hmmm kinda reminds you of all the JW elders and their secret sins.  I love how witnesses always ask for the indiscretions of their members and leaders to be overlooked but continually harp on or about any issue with Ex members.  The hypocrisy is palpable.
  18. Upvote
    Albert Michelson got a reaction from JW Insider in Should JW's punish, disfellowship, or shun members who disagree with certain teachings?   
    Hmmm kinda reminds you of all the JW elders and their secret sins.  I love how witnesses always ask for the indiscretions of their members and leaders to be overlooked but continually harp on or about any issue with Ex members.  The hypocrisy is palpable.
  19. Like
    Albert Michelson reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in Should JW's punish, disfellowship, or shun members who disagree with certain teachings?   
    The source did NOT make those things any LESS true.
    If your allegiance is to the TRUTH ... it is never mis-spent.
  20. Haha
    Albert Michelson got a reaction from AllenSmith in Should JW's punish, disfellowship, or shun members who disagree with certain teachings?   
    So you just haven't done the research?
    the-gentile-times-reconsidered.pdf
    nope, you claim it's true, you claim god chose them and it's his organization then you have the prove it plain and simple.
    Bahahahahahahaha wait you think that's evidence. 
  21. Upvote
    Albert Michelson got a reaction from JW Insider in Should JW's punish, disfellowship, or shun members who disagree with certain teachings?   
    Ok show me what I misrepresented 
  22. Thanks
    Albert Michelson got a reaction from JW Insider in Should JW's punish, disfellowship, or shun members who disagree with certain teachings?   
    I'd be very interested in what you would consider proof that the teaching isn't true. 
  23. Like
    Albert Michelson reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in Should JW's punish, disfellowship, or shun members who disagree with certain teachings?   
    And don't forget, 1914 was when Edgar Rice Burroughs published  his famous book "Tarzan of the Apes", which was such a magnificent piece of literature (seriously), that the little town North of Los Angeles, California where Burroughs lived was renamed Tarzana, California!
  24. Upvote
    Albert Michelson got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in Should JW's punish, disfellowship, or shun members who disagree with certain teachings?   
    Wrong it's the JWs who are making a positive claim, they are ones who have to prove it. A claim like that ( Jesus coming invisiblely and selecting your organization as his religion and your leaders as his sole channel of communication) is not true until proven false it needs to be  proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. It can be disproven beyond any reasonable doubt but the onus is on the witnesses to prove their claim, as the saying goes "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"
  25. Upvote
    Albert Michelson got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in Should JW's punish, disfellowship, or shun members who disagree with certain teachings?   
    So you just haven't done the research?
    the-gentile-times-reconsidered.pdf
    nope, you claim it's true, you claim god chose them and it's his organization then you have the prove it plain and simple.
    Bahahahahahahaha wait you think that's evidence. 
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