Srecko Sostar

Unlike you, JWInsider arrives at the date by researching and reviewing the existing WTJWorg chronology. If he is wrong, then it does not prove anything against him, except that he was wrong. With WTJWorg, it's a completely different story. They claim that they know better than everyone else because they are allegedly "led by HS". They created a dogma and specific "idol" out of chronology. If you don't believe in the "idol" then you will be excommunicated. lol

The first Society related to Russell and the Bible Students was Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society. How many JWs know who the first president was? Irrelevant to all JWs today. But it's good for them to know they can have a beard if they want. Maybe they remember that date as important. lol Only old JWs talk about 1914 as an important year for JWs. These young people today are not interested in it because they "don't care" about it, because it actually goes to Warwick's basement of history.

There is no biblical statement that anything happened in 607 BCE or 1914 CE. Go to search tool and you will not find any of this dates (numbers) in the Bible. That is my evidence. Your evidence comes from the calculation of the biblical text. So you have no proof, just an interpretation. lol

It is quite possible that George, like a good number of JWs, is influenced by the idea that the "New Jerusalem" (or one of several types of "Jerusalem" in WTJWorg theology) is presented in a "new form and new dwelling place". So "that Jerusalem that is no longer trampled on" is located in HQ Brooklyn, now Warwick or wherever in the state of New York. lol

It becomes recognizable to me as follows. There are scholars, archaeologists, historians and others involved in looking at historical events and dating them. These are people who independently or within the framework of recognized institutions research the matter and draw conclusions. All such individuals should have, and probably have, diplomas from higher educational institutions, so you can have confidence in their work and expertise. On the other hand, we have "esteemed" researchers whose names we do not know, nor their diplomas, because they work in anonymity as individuals or as unitary teams of a religious community. It is necessary to strongly emphasize the fact that this same religious community, as a non-profit body, strongly appeals before various other "secular bodies", such as courts and other institutions dealing with religious and human freedoms (and the like), appeals for its complete independence when it comes to religious doctrines and interpretations. They refer to their constitutionally guaranteed right that no one, not even the courts, have the right to engage in assessments or judgments as to whether certain theological interpretations are legal or not, right or wrong. In light of such a context and the claim of "independence in interpreting the biblical text" JWs (read, religious leaders) can, if they want to, say and teach what they like and see fit for their own theological consistency and doctrinal purpose while leading their believers with specifically chosen direction of one's own religious thought. In other words, this means that any teaching of a religious community, even if it is contrary to official science and and as such recognized by the academic community, cannot be considered as"wrong", because this right and freedom to "interpretation/s" is guaranteed by constitutional freedoms and charters.

I would use @George88 Georg's words, we humans are only part/causers of the problem. Are we the solution?

The prospects are bad. But that doesn't stop people from being fighters for their lives, no matter how it turns out in the end. Let's say, the horror with plastic has long exceeded the possibilities to solve it. But have people stopped using plastic? How many materials do JWs and their organization use, not just plastic, which is already being shown to be harmful? Don't JWs and "God's Organization" use vehicles that pollute the environment? So, you yourself are active participants in generating the downfall in one way or another. Doctrinal mantras will not free you from the consequences that affect every inhabitant of the Earth. WTJWorg periodically postpones Armageddon and thus the "perfect total solution". The human mind seeks solace in various, unusual and even strange places. Hope and faith are subjective scenes supported by ideas from various sources. Even the Communists who fought against the Nazis had faith and hope without religion. They were atheists, weren't they? They are still there today. Both atheists and communists have not died out. We are obliged to solve our problems and challenges ourselves. The only question is whether they taught us this when we were little, that is, whether they gave us a good foundation to continue growing and maturing while facing difficulties. With or without God, read; organized religion. Some JWs brothers and their lawyers are not honest when they present their testimony in court. Also, it is duplicitous to use the politically established scope of today's civilization on "freedom of religion", to introduce lawlessness and dishonesty through religious ideology and interpretations. "So what?" ........., "It’s only the ‘love of money’ that messes you up, not money itself." Do you have a detector that measures someone's "love" of money? Because, I get the impression that you are sure that those who manage money and make decisions about money in the "Corporation" are all "money haters". lol

JWTV video with Stephen Lett, May 2015 https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/StudioTalks/pub-jwban_201505_1_VIDEO

Don't mind me not participating in the discussion about dates and events. There is a lot of math, comparing and memorizing, and reading a lot of books. I don't have that capacity, and I don't have enough persistence. Should we deal with the figure of "70 years" as an important factor? Not really, as far as I can see. Because there were several "exiles" for many nations and individuals, not just some. And they all started and ended at different times. Another thing that is troubling in general when we want to rely on statements in the Bible is this. God himself declared that his covenant with the Jews and his Law and some other things will last forever (not 70 or 700,000 years, but forever). What is visible today of that "eternity"? Something still persists/continues, but how and in what way? Some claim that "that eternity" no longer lasts. I conclude that relying on the "70 years" benchmark is unreliable.

If I could I would put 2 emoticons. Laughter and sadness. I can see through your comments how much information you have and "expertise" in presenting it. I could have guessed your answer. I knew the WTJWorg "researchers" wanted to remain anonymous for the reason stated. Maybe one is trying to be more modest than the reality is. Furthermore, such an explanation could have passed some 20 years ago. Today, to say such a thing is so ridiculous and unconvincing, when we see many JWs key figures providing "spiritual guidance" and "interpretations" with head and beard, with first and last name and without any shyness, on JWTV and other digital platforms. As a class and as individuals, they proved that they are without "leadership from above". They are at the same time subordinated to the main condition that the "company/corporation" should not fail but survive at all costs. Entangled in a series of their own nonsensical interpretations and clarifications, they prove themselves constantly incapable of providing the "truth". Because they changed "the truth" countless times. Unfortunately, or fortunately for me, I cannot "submit" myself to your "generated" (recognizable) answer, because it looks like the use of an AI platform, which has been repeatedly exposed here, which gives wrong and misleading information. I appreciate the possibility that you deeply believe in it, but that will not make the premise real and proven. I remain to enjoy this academic discussion.

Some in the ex-JW community use the term "JW-borg, all resistance is futile". The method and purpose of dealing with the "disobedient" in WTJWorg is that anyone who disagrees and opposes and resists should be completely rejected, and denied communication with the "healthy fabric" of the congregation. You gave an example with Ray Franz. The latest case is with A. Morris. Both were members of GB. Over time, the same fact is shown again and again; The "apostates" spoke the truth and saw things they should have kept quiet about, but they couldn't and didn't want to keep quiet. These people are "whistleblowers" of some kind. Ruling structures that are bothered by the uncontrolled spreading of facts about "God's Organization" can only partially succeed in keeping such information. The so-called "non-transparency", at all levels and platforms of communication that are used today in "God's organization", has been practiced for a long time. This cannot have good results in the long run, only bad consequences. WTJWorg is "condemned, predestined" to this type of functioning, because this is how it is done in every "controlled group" and "hierarchical institution". As much as the "broad and free freedom of communication" through today's predominantly digital means has its downsides, there are just as many positive aspects that will help individuals make "informed decisions" regarding their religious affiliation and dependence on certain ideologies of any provenance. I am glad that a large number of JW people are taking advantage of these opportunities, and I hope that they will not go to other extremes while using their "newfound freedom".

On all these pages where history and dates are discussed, many people are very clearly mentioned with their first and last names and with the names of books, publications, and sources from which they are quoted. Please, who are the people, by name and surname, who are WT scholars? Let them stand behind their claims with their full name and surname.

Please, who are WT scholars? Then, since when have they been operating within WTJWorg? Who chose them and appointed them to do this kind of work? On the basis of which credentials were they chosen? On the other hand, what is even more important (primarily for me) for this and any other assessment of their action comes from the consequences produced by WT scholars. Namely, the entire promenade of various WT scholars has been making theological and doctrinal chaos and commotion for a whole century. They are dangerous for the spiritual and mental health of believers. So how can they even be trusted?

My behavior in communication on the forum is subject to subjective (yours or someone else's) judgment because they observe my actions through their individual prism of judgment, which they acquired mainly under the influence of their religious affiliation.

So now you back off and tone down your previous claim. Thank you. According to statistics maintained by WTJWorg there are very few countries where JWs are banned compared to the large number of countries where JWs operate freely. According to this factual situation, we can look at the concept and idea that "the whole world hates JWs" differently and more realistically.

So now you back off and tone down your previous claim. Thank you.

In this "secular" report JWs volunteers say the opposite. That the people around them are nice, that they approach them and that they chat nicely with them, they say Hi to them, (this remind me on GB command how "simple Hello" is forbidden if you are ex-JW), express their appreciation for what JWs do. Hey, nobody hates you. Here are your brothers and sisters confirming it George! Wake up!

This is Georg's frequent practice.

Reports, like this unfortunate event, which takes place in the premises of other churches, show that the claim of JWs that the world hates only them has no basis. This event shows that there are people who hate the members of "Babylon the Great" too.

Was Jesus an "apostate" or a "whistleblower"? apostasy- https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/apostasy The act of giving up your religious or political beliefs and leaving a religion or a political party. apostate - https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/apostate An apostate is someone who has abandoned their religious faith, political loyalties, or principles. JWs agree with the general view that Jesus founded Christianity, thus a religion distinct from the Jewish religion. This would mean that Jesus belongs to the category of apostates and more. Not only did he abandon the religion of his fathers, but he founded another, the opposite of the one to which he belonged. whistleblower - https://www.whistleblowers.org/what-is-a-whistleblower/ On the simplest level, a whistleblower is someone who reports waste, fraud, abuse, corruption, or dangers to public health and safety to someone who is in the position to rectify the wrongdoing. A whistleblower typically works inside of the organization where the wrongdoing is taking place; however, being an agency or company “insider” is not essential to serving as a whistleblower. What matters is that the individual discloses information about wrongdoing that otherwise would not be known. Because of his constant criticism of the religious leaders and the revelation of their hypocrisy and the injustices they inflicted on the people, Jesus would also be included under this category because of his actions.

Yes, that's learning at WTJWorg. But is it true? Jesus nowhere stated that he was introducing/establishing a new religion. Jesus never called his activities and the gathering of individuals who followed him by any name, a title that would separate them from Judaism. He did not call himself and the apostles with title - "Christians". This was done by some other people who the Bible does not claim were Christians, Jesus' followers, nor were they inspired when they invented the name for Jesus' disciples. Also we have this claim in Romans 11: 1 I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham,[a] a member of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel?

If we rule out the JWs "persecution syndrome", how everyone in the world is against them and wants to destroy them, then we are left with the fact that the religious leaders aka GB are responsible for why the JWs are disgraced in court and in front of the public, due to the fact that they acted against the law, and now bear sanctions because of their bad decisions.

Who knows Jesus' intention? Or God's intention? Who knows their thoughts? Matt 23: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. According to this Jesus' words, Jewish priesthood, clergy spoke the truth and interpreted the Scriptures correctly. From this factual situation, can we assert that the Jewish religion is a true religion, but that it is being corrupted by religious leaders? We could claim that this applies to every present-day religion in the same way, right? They teach everyone to be good and honest. But, as in the time of Jesus, the blame lies with the religious leaders. The conclusion is self-evident. If, by some miracle, we accept that every dogma in the WTJWorg is correct, then we are left with hypocritical religious leaders who exist in every religion, whose actions should not be imitated.