Srecko Sostar

https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/87370-furulis-new-e-book-my-beloved-religion-and-the-governing-body/

Perhaps it is very possible to look on issue with this in mind too. WTJWorg GB found out in 2013 (after how many decades?), that they misunderstood 1919 event. And how exists two separate sort of appointing. You can't avoid thought how GB can be wrong in their conclusions presented in 2013 article, too. That would not be first nor last time for GB errors about doctrinal or any other issues/subjects. Also, in illustration you mentioned It is similar to the slaves who were given talents. When the master came to inspect, he rewarded those slaves, questions arise: When and how Jesus gave talents to servants? In 1919? To who? What those servants (plural) worked till 1919. How many servants are included in talents? Are (Russell's and) Rutherford's WT only "servant" who receive talents? Because Jesus in illustration gave talents to various servants. To diligent and lazy one. According to logic WTJWorg presented, there is two time inspection moments also. In 1914-1919 period. Very long indeed. And other in the future time (how long will last this second inspection??) What is confusing about 1914-1919 heavenly inspection is fact how Russell and Rutherford with WT Society was already have talents and worked with them, for dispensing spiritual food, because they already doing that for some times (1879 -1919 first WT Zion' magazine) ??!! When they get talents? In 1879, earlier that time or in 1919 or in 2013 ... ? Obviously here we have two or more periods of "dispensing spiritual food". Periods before 1879. Period without "official" appointing (1879-1919) and second period with "official" appointing (1919 onward). Also, bear in mind idea how Jesus had his appointed servants through all centuries, according to WT publications. Are they participated in talents and spreading spiritual foods? If they was diligent FDS servants, they are, for sure. ?!! That would mean how they been choose by his Master, in the past, for same service and position and deserve same, to be appointed over all .... . But in all those periods we also have MORE than One Servant, individuals or class, as you wish. And all of them received some "talents" or Jesus' Teachings to work with. With that in mind WTJWorg is not only one "servant" who have Jesus' Teachings and Bible, available for/to spread around the world. All of them "working" with His teachings in various ways. One of way is HOW THEY INTERPRET JESUS'S TEACHINGS. I can/would believe how exactly this moment is crucial for that supposed "second" inspection in the future. Simple commitment, zeal to "spread the word" is not of any importance if you spread own errors, mistakes, clarifications, changed doctrines. Because, according to WTJWorg magazines all other churches doing exactly that (in fact same thing as WTJWorg). You mentioned "great tribulation" as period of final Jesus' decision. That can include few versions, some of them are this: 1) all "servants" individuals and/or organizations through the world (and by that 1919 and WT Society is of no importance as organization that is "chosen" by Jesus' in that sort of final inspection in that particular final period of time) 2) only individuals and/or class inside WTJWorg because some of them was FDS and some of them wasn't FDS (in this case explanation in WT magazine how "evil servants" not existing in WTJWorg falls in deep abyss as one in a list of wrong interpretations and wrong doctrine. Because why would Jesus do another inspection to confirm first inspection in 1919? Does this mean how He haven't trust in FDS aka GB He already appointed in 1919? Gerrit Loesch publicly claimed how Jesus have Trust in GB. *** 2013 WT magazine said how appointing FDS aka GB over all His belongings, in the future, will be only because/after FDS aka GB proved their FDS characteristics. That means how Jesus in fact is not sure how this WTJWorg "servant" deserve to be appointed over all belongings and He don't see this Class already fit to take reward (2013 break point). Thing is: "great tribulation" is not measure tool for Class to be declared as FDS or not FDS. "Great tribulation" is only time period for making execution about decision you need to make BEFORE final act. Obviously, FDS aka GB decided that Jesus will have enough time from 2013 to some future time point and bring decision who is and who is not FDS. PS *** Two outstanding reasons are: (1) Jehovah trusts the slave class. (2) Jesus also trusts the slave. Let us examine the evidence that both Jehovah God and Jesus Christ have complete confidence in the faithful and discreet slave. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2009123

I wonder what is difference between this two words: rule and doctrine (as part of JW's lexis and vocabulary context)? In example you gave, "beard ban thing", is very well possible to see how Centralized Body in US Bethel made decision (i suppose from Rutherford time) how beard is not for JW's Christians because that would not make them to be seen by "worldly people" as True God's servants. In their attempt to be United and Unison, as characteristic that is part of Universal View on Organization originated by God. By that, all individuals who are part of such Organization must have clear and general and only one standpoint worldwide about this or any other subject, matter. And exactly this moment, how all JW's need to have same standpoint about one matter making this "rule" to be doctrine and not just simple rule for some situations that is not obligation for people in other situations. But again, who made "rules" about next thing; what situations are acceptable and what situations are not acceptable to "break a rule"? Is/was "beard ban issue" part of recommendation, or rule, or doctrine? When congregational elders make decision, according to GB guidance (here we have another terminology- guidance), how brother with beard are not suitable for having public talk or to be in any capacity in congregation or even preaching service, than "beard issue" is not just recommendation or rule but comes to be doctrine as part of JW's Unique Teachings that making this religion to be unique and separate from all other organization and religions. In WTJWorg world, members can't be sure about own lexis and meaning of particular word. Because, people would expect how doctrines/teachings are based on firm fundament aka Bible, and will last forever and unchanged. But in this Organization recommendations and rules are of same value as doctrines or to be said Bible doctrines (principles) are put on same low level as rules and recommendations - they can be rejected or changed or molded into other forms depends of what will pleased WTJWorg Administration. Librarian released topics how beard are now allowed for JW members. This confirms how "beard" is part of WTJWorg doctrinal problem. JW’s are now allowed to have beards and publicly preach.... By The Librarian, March 21, 2017 in Topics New Light! - Beards are now ok. By The Librarian, May 27, 2016 in Topics

Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” 25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” 26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” In this context we see it is conversation between two individuals. Both of them have some expectations from each other. Jesus said to young man: "follow me". Jesus didn't go into explanation how he must join organization, congregation, apostles or similar. He just made one and only precondition, follow ME (in literal way if we going 20 century back, or what is more important in spiritual way. Because even in case of young man and Jesus, his following him literally would be for very limited time - Jesus died soon) . And this is what God can make to be possible - making influence on person to be ready to "leave all" and join Jesus' teachings and example. That, among other things, make me believe how organization is not precondition for following Jesus. And to use R. Franz terminology, idea and reasoning how "God must have organization", and "you must be part of JHVH organization to be saved", is doctrine that captures JW leaders and members.They are not able to think outside this captive concept. They based their reasoning on; old Jew organizational national kings ruler system, and 1st century Judeo-Christian movement as role model and proof how God was always had organization of some sort. I don't see problem with "organization/organizing" as way for accomplish some task. What is worrying is the impossibility/inability of individuals and the whole group of JW's to imagine how with God all things are possible, even that He is in capacity to have people on Earth who are not members of organized Religion, Non-profit Organization, or any Legal Entity that need to be confirmed and recognized by secular authority. If we take old Jew Kingdom or 1st century Congregation as historic examples, both of them existing without permission of other historical actors around them. Do we really need to believe and accept how earthly organization is really only and best what God have, to be able to gather people who will follow Jesus? And if we take serious JW's claim how their Organization is exactly it, than this is God's third organized system and His third try/attempt to establish True Worship on Earth. Third time lucky, this time? If WTJWorg is "anti-type" model of their "type" models before, than future is not looking good. Old Jew's Kingdom ended in total fall, spiritually and literally. 1st Congregation ended in apostasy.

Not with me.

I have nothing against good JHVH moral standards. Just told how must be deeper reason why some want to change sex.

You open interesting theme. WTJWorg have using specific wording, terminology for own history - cleaning, sifting. This applies to the organization, the system, as a whole. This have to include GB, Lawyers who work for society, elders, MS, Management who run all legal entities under various names, and members of course. If top management aka GB as group who supposedly is connected with god through Jesus in a special way, and as Gerrit Loesch explained on TV, Jesus show Trust to Them (here we see a substitution of the thesis, instead of GB saying how they trust in Jesus, it turns out that Jesus trusts in GB). All this has its roots in the 1914-1919 idea of inspection from the sky, sorry, Heaven. In one moment we see how exist two sort of "cleansing". One is self cleansing of individuals like Russell and his friends, who were unsatisfied with religion they belong. The WT publication i have read, say nothing about individual, personal need for "cleansing", but how Russell was not satisfied with religious teachings of own church. And that is impetus, that triggered his rejecting of established system he was participated and inherit from parents. Similar is today with many people who become JW's. Most of them join to religion because of "wrong teachings" that exists in their old church, or "promises about better life in the future". Few of them have extra individual needs because they feel guilty about own state of hearth, sinful behavior and similar reason. In that aspect i don't see how one massive system, organization, and now this is organization with millions of members, can make any sort of "self cleansing" inside this firmly established system. Also i don't see why would God and Jesus have extra interest to "clean" WTJWorg system. This is earthly organization as any other religious (or non religious) organization. If God would have interest to clean WTJWorg, He maybe have same reason to clean Adventist, Catholic, Mormon, Amish and any other Christian or non Christian religion. Because, major of all that people want to believe in God and worship him. I believe how God like, would use more personal approach and give His attention to person not organization. Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one. Job 14 4

WT do printing publication on several locations around the globe, less than before because they shuted down some facilities. In Croatia, as in many other countries there is no need to have printing licence from law. Because they not printing publications and books. For printing tracts for summer convention program or some other convention twice a year, call tracts for public meetings and Lord's supper is easily to order in "worldly" printing shop. In Mexico they was registered as Cultural Society. Why JW's need to be registered as non-profit organization/corporation?? You can be simple Religious Association of Citizens or International Religious Volunteer. Who forced JW's to be registered as non-profit COMPANY??

You forget how last "clarification" made before few years when WT study edition revealed how GB-FDS was NOT appointed in 1919 OVER ALL BELONGINGS, but only to DISPENSE spiritual FOOD. According to WT explanation what is meaning and content of "belongings", it said how that including material assets and people-members ............. one thing was made clear to JW's - In Doctrinal theory sense: 1) GB is no more Governing Body over people in Organization 2) GB no longer has anything to do with money and real-estate. That WILL be in future, according to WT article. But who should have? Who have power over members? And, who handling with money and real-estate? Do GB need own, specific sort of Organization for dispensing spiritual food??? What they need in this modern time is internet connection, laptop and own you tube channel. They not need buildings, lawyers and elders. Are elders appointed "over all His belongings"??? By who and when? By GB in 2013? hahahaha If God took appointment from GB in the year 2013, by paragraph published in WT study edition article, this same article not bring new revelation about WHO is then in charge with "belongings", from 2013 to some future point !! But because almost all WT policies, doctrines and interpretations are questionable, all this ideas about Organization in format of worldly Company is odd. Betel HQ in US is physical place where some people creating policies and run the business. If GB is supposed to not has anything with "earthly possession", it seems how elders are class who Governing over "ship". But, question is who gave them such authority after GB-FDS was removed (with one movement of god's hand) from that same position in 2013 ?!.

If GB members are here, exists only for one reason and that is to "dispense spiritual food" - i would like to know WHO forcing them to be seen as or to be board members of corporation? What government put obligation, forcing this 8 (+names in the past) particular GB names to run corporation, to be in any corporative capacity? And why this 8 (+names in the past) names agreed to be part of government obligation when that obligation put them into position to have not enough time to serve for interest of Kingdom and their King but involving them, dragging them into work, business of this old world system ? .... like a good soldier of Christ Jesus. No one serving as a soldier gets entangled in civilian affairs, but rather tries to please his commanding officer. 2 Tim 2 4 It seems how GB forget this Principle and failed to be FDS for decades until big changes (in 2000 i guess). And now they serve as TV Preachers.

No problem. I have understanding about your different standpoint and beliefs and why you have such perspective.

Word "end" is "sword with double edge" it seems. And is absolutely not necessary for chronology or to point history periods. As in many other textual issues and ambiguities about the actual meaning of text, we need few things. To look for: 1) Context 2) Grammar and spelling precision, rules in sentences which are expected to send true meaning of author's thoughts 3) Author's own explanation what he want to say What we have today for meet these 3 conditions? - some passages from WT 1968 article: Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975, and the long looked-for thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then? Possibly, but we wait to see how closely the seventh thousand year period of man’s existence coincides with the sabbath like thousand-year reign of Christ. If these two periods run parallel with each other as to the calendar year, it will not be by mere chance or accident but will be according to Jehovah’s loving and timely purposes. Our chronology, however, which is reasonably accurate (but admittedly not infallible), at the best only points to the autumn of 1975 as the end of 6,000 years of man’s existence on earth. It does not necessarily mean that 1975 marks the end of the first 6,000 years of Jehovah’s seventh creative “day.” Why not? Because after his creation Adam lived some time during the “sixth day,” which unknown amount of time would need to be subtracted from Adam’s 930 years, to determine when the sixth seven-thousand-year period or “day” ended, and how long Adam lived into the “seventh day.” And yet the end of that sixth creative “day” could end within the same Gregorian calendar year of Adam’s creation. It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years.................33 This time between Adam’s creation and the beginning of the seventh day, the day of rest, let it be noted, need not have been a long time. It could have been a rather short one.............So the lapse of time between Adam’s creation and the end of the sixth creative day, though unknown, was a comparatively short period of time.............35 One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man’s existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation! (Matt. 24:34) This is, therefore, no time to be indifferent and complacent. This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but Father...... To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end. Make no mistake, it is sufficient that the Father himself knows both the “day and hour”! ... Entire WT article deal with chronology and how WT scholars are very good in that. In preamble of magazine is purpose of WT magazine and it said this: No, "The Watchtower" is no inspired prophet, but it follows and explains a Book of prophecy the predictions in which have proved to be unerring and unfailing till now. "The Watchtower" is therefore under safe guidance. It may be read with confidence, for its statements may be checked against that prophetic Book. Article giving enough material for followers to think seriously: about period of time that will be completed in 1975 within this generation. Generation of 1914 i assume?! Reign of Christ after end of 6000 period? Possibly, but wait to see?! Authors of WT article said it is possible!! What about words "nobody knows day and hour"? Article said how This is not the time to be toying with the Jesus words, but in what sense? Article warned readers/members how end time is NOT in far future, and how JW's must be careful to not use Jesus words as excuse to not put trust in article which said how Jesus Reign IS POSSIBLE in 1975 or soon after, because end of this system of things is RAPIDLY COMING to its violent end. All this is Based on: WT chronology and interpretations about predictions which have proved to be unerring and unfailing till now, and because magazine is under safe guidance. 50 years later JW's are still under safe guidance but with changed interpretations.

Have you same Understanding for Dr. Furuli? and his doubts, lack of faith, searching for "better", "truer" truth, ....etc?

Well, this sort of process existing in animal world. People, and JW people too, need to know how working the world who is create by God they believe in. Next thing you said, is influence, unknown mostly, that can cause need in some individuals to change the sex. That would mean, because no one know why and how things is happening, that JW members need to have more insight and knowledge and intuition about issue and not drop all and every individual who have issue with sex identity into "devil influence" and/or individual "evilness". I wouldn't know what you mean with this. Because, as i am aware, most of school politics and curriculum is not at all or mostly sourced, created in particular school but come from governmental directives, Ministry of Education, institutions that materially contribute or completely financing educational system as in private schools. I think how corruption is not problem that coming from schools (only) but is in society that is changing. Have in mind, how process of changing ( no matter in what direction, in what sort of matters) is also in your church in your JWsociety. And time in future will give better perspective and conclusions only to future generations. That what you noticed about education can be matter of nostalgia too, not only independent and objective analyze. Bubbles are general, not only individual problem or identifying space-time position. It can be said how you looks on Dr Furulli's or @JW Insider Bubble from your own Bubble too. :))

Thanks for respond. I just saw few documentaries on TV about animals who changing sex as natural process. Also on internet few articles about that after watched TV.......... If they lied, i lied too. :))

It takes some time for spirit (spirits) to be in power and spread influence (inspiration) or guidance :)))

@Ann O'Maly My memory is very short, sometimes, but i recall how i put in focus facts how some life forms on this planet changing sex in their life time. And that is happening as normal part of their characteristic and gens. When people talking about who created life on Earth, according to Bible answer is God. Well, God created some animals in such format to be able to change sex. Changing of sex inside human species is complicated issue. And question is, why would some person wish to do that when many other don't wish that. Space Merchant have issue with science who discovered how some animal species have changing sex ability. Or, he have issue with God who created such ability for some life forms? And now we can expect how Mr Space will copy paste and link all my past conversation with Him. God, please save us from "enormous text attack". :))

Ok, one side of logic triggered next question: Why WT doing the same, writing and publishing books (Bibles and tracts, magazines, brochures) ? Because they also know how Jesus is aware of everything that is going on Earth, not only in this or that organization.

It is interesting how "extra" freedom, you looking for by implementing something out of Organizational box, make you feel happy. I encourage You to continue with that. :))

We do not debate about former and/or actual members. We speaking about what periods in WT bring members specific understanding on particular subject. And how wrong they all are. Periodical "adjustments and clarification" of doctrines is not triggered by former members but by actual leadership about those, particular periods in organization's history aka teachings. It does not of any matter how this conversation resonate in me, but how that same things resonate with actual members. Because many of you who are actual members have very good chance to become former members, PIMO, POMI and other versions.

In those years they, JW's, understand what was normal to understand according to "accurate knowledge" of those time. "One day" is 7000 years. Human existence of 6000 years will end in 1975. After that period of 6000 years, 1000 years kingdom will rule and 7th Day will be closed with renewed Paradise on Earth. Clear and simple reasoning for organization in those period of time. And now you said that is wrong. :))) Yes, organization know that same thing NOW, too. But then, in 1960'es "the truth" was different, not so advanced as today. Light lamp was under the table.:)))

I think Cesar just skiped magazines from previous period, from, let say 1968 onward :)).

This is funny. Let tell us please, when and how will WT stop to promote "overlapping generation" scheme (very connected to "the end of World" ideology as was the 1975 too), and start to point to some individuals in organization who were over zeal in their attempts, how to explain and prolong life to "Generation of 1914" failed doctrine ?

This is epic statement :)) Very Biblical in fact .... they reading Deuteronomy and Revelation book to much.

.....or perhaps shareholders of WT Company can make some moves :))