Israeli Bar Avaddhon

Dear DeeDee, I thank you, of course, for your concern and your advice. Meanwhile, I want to tell you that I'm not a young man. I am not less than 35 years old. I have been baptized for 27 years (so, as you can imagine, I did not get baptized at age 8). I did not want to answer the question "if I was under 35" because this question distracts from the content of the articles. I want the attention to be placed on the contents and on the Scriptures of the articles and not on the person who writes. If all the talk is put on "You are young, you are inexperienced", then you lose the importance of the topic. However, that I have 20 years or 50 or 99 concepts do not change. My words do not become "right" or more "wrong" according to my age. The only thing we need to understand is whether they are in harmony with the Bible or not. The Bible was written for young people and also for older people. You have made a correct quotation: we must love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength. But I would like to ask you a question: where do we learn about the personality of God? Through what we learn to know God better? Through what do we learn about God's way of thinking and acting? We learn all this through the Bible, it's true? I want to ask you another question. Can we honestly say that we love God if we do not love His Word? Is not this concept the same reproach we make to the people of the world? In field service we often meet devoted people who say they love God. It's not true? What objection do we make to these people? "Whoever loves God, strives to know him better". Or "He who loves God manages to overcome his own traditions and convictions if they are not in harmony with the Word of God". We must also make an honest critique and ask ourselves if we ourselves, ourselves, have not become the victim of a tradition or of prejudice - compare Romans 2:21, 22; 2 Corinthians 13: 5 Finally the scriptures you mentioned I could mention them too, is not it? I have full confidence in Jehovah. If I relied on my intelligence, then I would not consult the Bible. If I relied on my intelligence I would not look for answers in the Bible, do you think? I would simply do what I want, without doing research in the Bible, without meditating, without praying. Does it seem to you that what I have written up to now has not referred to the Bible? Of course I can be wrong, like all human beings. However, I invite you to reflect that you have not read the article I posted to you (the one titled "Death really cancels sin"). Or maybe you read it but you did not mention a single writing, just one application. You have not contested any part of the article in merit. I would have been happy that you had answered the question: "When Paul says that we are dead with Christ, does he mean it literally? Or when he says that "we were buried with Christ "does he mean it literally?" Or I would have liked you to have answered the question: "Is it the death that erases the sins or the sacrifice of Christ?" Do you know why this happened? is it possible (only possible) that you focused on the fact that I was "under 35" and so I needed advice? Obviously even a 90-year-old can need advice. We are all imperfect and limited. However the only really important thing is that every "thesis" is supported by the Scriptures. If what I wrote is wrong, the right thing to do would help each other to understand what the Word of God really teaches. I am ready to review and retract everything. Are you really willing to do it anyway? Or the fear of discovering that something that has been taught to us is wrong prevents us from getting closer to the Word of God (and therefore to God)? is it possible (only possible) that we love our tranquility more? Yet we should be happy if Jehovah, in his undeserved kindness, will allow us to understand more. Even though I'm over 35, I do not scold anyone. I invite only to reflect on the example of the Israelites of the past. As you know, at a certain point, they stopped ascertaining the will of God. They had the temple, the priests. They were unquestionably the People of God. Was this sufficient to avoid discipline? "Be sure of everything" is not bad advice, is not it? "Keep on trying if you are in the faith and what you yourselves are". Those who love God with all their heart, mind and strength, seek Him in His Word and are not afraid to clash with the judgment of the majority. And those who want to live in holy devotion will also be persecuted. I wish you with all my heart that you can have the humility to question yourself regardless of who tells you it is 20 or 99 years old. Regardless of who tells you it is "an overseer" or the smallest and most insignificant among the brothers - Matthew 11:25, 26

Death really erases the sins? One consequence of the fact that the resurrection takes place at the end of the millennium is asking the question of what basis will be judged resurrected . So far we have been taught that the resurrected would be judged based on what they would do after their resurrection , that is, over a long period in the kingdom of Christ. The apostle Paul once said ... "I have hope toward God ... that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous" - Acts 24:15 Because Paul harbored the hope that there was a resurrection for the unjust who, if they were only judged by their past actions, would then killed? Probably these "rolls" will contain many details of the life of people and perhaps will add detailed instructions on how to proceed, evaluating and mitigating the causes, and it is reasonable to believe that there might also be a probationary time for at least some of them. We have no particular about it, but Jehovah is the Righteous Judge and certainly will make sure that all those worthy have a chance to live and be happy - Compare Matthew 10:15 and Luke 10:13, 14 However, the Bible book of Revelation teaches that the resurrection will occur at the end of the millennium and not during, and so we must acquiesce to the Scriptures. The writing is said that the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were not finished - Revelation 20: 5 " As long as" means "up to the moment when" and not "during" and this would appear to suggest that these thousand years, elected would reign on the survivors of Armageddon and their families but not on any resurrected. The same term, "long" used in Matthew 1:25, we always used to demonstrate, to supporters of virginity of Mary, Joseph had no intercourse with his wife until the birth of the child (and this indicates that after this birth Mary and Joseph consummated marriage as any other married couple). This should be enough to prove that the resurrection will occur after the end of the millennium , a concept that seems to be repeated in verses 12 and 13. If this is correct, how should we understand the words of Paul described in Romans 6: 7 that "he who has died has been acquitted from their sins"? If the death has been absolved from sin ... why then it was judged on the Day of Judgment, or the resurrection, according to the things written in the scrolls? This apparent contradiction has led to think that the Day of Judgment would take place in reality throughout the millennial reign of Christ and will be judged on what people would have done during this period . The duration of the kingdom of Christ would be in harmony with the concept of "day" expressed in the Scriptures - II Peter 3: 8  Death erases really sin? However, analyzing the context of Romans chapter 6 it is not clear at all that the Judgment does not occur on the basis of what has been done when he was alive. Paul, in fact, speaking of the anointed says he "died with reference to sin" and who were baptized into Christ's death. He also says that they were "buried with him" by baptism and that baptism constituted, in effect, a "newness of life." It 'clear that Paul is using figurative language because no Christian, anointed or not, is buried with Christ . In other words it seems that Paul is saying that only sin no more, that is proving to be dead about life previous sinful and demonstrating faith in the ransom sacrifice of Christ , it is free from judgment. Verse 8 also says "we have died with Christ" and "we believe that we shall also live with him" but of course Paul was not really dead, or with Christ or to anyone else. He and several others had died compared to their previous life and now lived a "newness of life". Having decided to be dead from the previous life he and the others had been "delivered from their sin." This is in harmony with the words of Jesus when he said that those who would listen to his word and exercised faith in Him would not go to trial - John 5:24 Also, if the death sin was canceled, how should we understand the words of Revelation 6:10? In this scripture it speaks of the souls of the just who apply to be vindicated, but it is assumed that the perpetrators of these Christians have died long ago. If the death the sin of the perpetrators has been extinguished ... on what basis can they cry out revenge? And who should retaliate this revenge if there are no more sinners? Even other writings help to shed light on this aspect. Referring to those cities who would not have heard the message, Jesus said that on the Day of Judgment would be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah than for them - Matthew 10:14, 15; Matthew 11: 20-24 Why it would be more "tolerable" for Sodom and Gomorrah O Tire and Sidon, though the death sin would be canceled and the resurrection would all again from scratch? In the same principle we can reason about what is said in Revelation 14:13. The writing refers to Christians and says, "Happy are the dead ... because the things they did go right with them." If good things are retained in Jehovah's memory even after death, it is not reasonable to believe that this happens for the rest? Matthew 12:36 says, "I tell you that every word unprofitable that men have said give account on the Day of Judgment." If we read only what is written without trying articulated interpretations, you understand that "have said" is the past, of course, referring to what has been said in this life and not what they could mean in the future (in fact, Jesus He is condemning the Pharisees who have just asserted that he drive out demons by Beelzebub). Of this they realized the Day of Judgment. In Matthew 23: 33-36 Jesus condemns the nation of Israel, especially the scribes and Pharisees for their hypocrisy and violence and says "that is on you all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Barachiah, whom you assassinaste between the sanctuary and the altar. " How could anyone ask for the blood of Abel and of all those who died later if their murderers were dead and then become sinless? In 2 Timothy 4:14 the apostle Paul said, "Alexander the coppersmith has brought me much evil - Jehovah will repay him according to his works." Jehovah would have made according to his works when? Before his death, that is, in the first century? Perhaps Jehovah intervened to punish all the persecutors of Christians in the first century? Is it not clear that the apostle Paul is saying that Jehovah would remember the works of this Alessandro on Judgment Day? From these writings it is clear that death does not automatically delete the sin but I will only do the Jehovah's Judgment - Compare Revelation 18: 5 As Romans 6:23 says the wages sin pays is death, and so, even if the death repay the debt, they need to remain in death . This means that their eventual resurrection, however, should answer for their sins because, indeed, have not remained in that condition. In fact the word "salary" and "pays" fit perfectly into this concept.  Report post  Posted November 7, 2017 Death really erases the sins?  One consequence of the fact that the resurrection takes place at the end of the millennium is asking the question of what basis will be judged resurrected . So far we have been taught that the resurrected would be judged based on what they would do after their resurrection , that is, over a long period in the kingdom of Christ. The apostle Paul once said ... "I have hope toward God ... that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous" - Acts 24:15 Because Paul harbored the hope that there was a resurrection for the unjust who, if they were only judged by their past actions, would then killed? Probably these "rolls" will contain many details of the life of people and perhaps will add detailed instructions on how to proceed, evaluating and mitigating the causes, and it is reasonable to believe that there might also be a probationary time for at least some of them. We have no particular about it, but Jehovah is the Righteous Judge and certainly will make sure that all those worthy have a chance to live and be happy - Compare Matthew 10:15 and Luke 10:13, 14 However, the Bible book of Revelation teaches that the resurrection will occur at the end of the millennium and not during, and so we must acquiesce to the Scriptures. The writing is said that the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were not finished - Revelation 20: 5 " As long as" means "up to the moment when" and not "during" and this would appear to suggest that these thousand years, elected would reign on the survivors of Armageddon and their families but not on any resurrected. The same term, "long" used in Matthew 1:25, we always used to demonstrate, to supporters of virginity of Mary, Joseph had no intercourse with his wife until the birth of the child (and this indicates that after this birth Mary and Joseph consummated marriage as any other married couple). This should be enough to prove that the resurrection will occur after the end of the millennium , a concept that seems to be repeated in verses 12 and 13. If this is correct, how should we understand the words of Paul described in Romans 6: 7 that "he who has died has been acquitted from their sins"? If the death has been absolved from sin ... why then it was judged on the Day of Judgment, or the resurrection, according to the things written in the scrolls? This apparent contradiction has led to think that the Day of Judgment would take place in reality throughout the millennial reign of Christ and will be judged on what people would have done during this period . The duration of the kingdom of Christ would be in harmony with the concept of "day" expressed in the Scriptures - II Peter 3: 8 Death erases really sin? However, analyzing the context of Romans chapter 6 it is not clear at all that the Judgment does not occur on the basis of what has been done when he was alive. Paul, in fact, speaking of the anointed says he "died with reference to sin" and who were baptized into Christ's death. He also says that they were "buried with him" by baptism and that baptism constituted, in effect, a "newness of life." It 'clear that Paul is using figurative language because no Christian, anointed or not, is buried with Christ . In other words it seems that Paul is saying that only sin no more, that is proving to be dead about life previous sinful and demonstrating faith in the ransom sacrifice of Christ , it is free from judgment. Verse 8 also says "we have died with Christ" and "we believe that we shall also live with him" but of course Paul was not really dead, or with Christ or to anyone else. He and several others had died compared to their previous life and now lived a "newness of life". Having decided to be dead from the previous life he and the others had been "delivered from their sin." This is in harmony with the words of Jesus when he said that those who would listen to his word and exercised faith in Him would not go to trial - John 5:24 Also, if the death sin was canceled, how should we understand the words of Revelation 6:10? In this scripture it speaks of the souls of the just who apply to be vindicated, but it is assumed that the perpetrators of these Christians have died long ago. If the death the sin of the perpetrators has been extinguished ... on what basis can they cry out revenge? And who should retaliate this revenge if there are no more sinners? Even other writings help to shed light on this aspect. Referring to those cities who would not have heard the message, Jesus said that on the Day of Judgment would be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah than for them - Matthew 10:14, 15; Matthew 11: 20-24 Why it would be more "tolerable" for Sodom and Gomorrah O Tire and Sidon, though the death sin would be canceled and the resurrection would all again from scratch? In the same principle we can reason about what is said in Revelation 14:13. The writing refers to Christians and says, "Happy are the dead ... because the things they did go right with them." If good things are retained in Jehovah's memory even after death, it is not reasonable to believe that this happens for the rest? Matthew 12:36 says, "I tell you that every word unprofitable that men have said give account on the Day of Judgment." If we read only what is written without trying articulated interpretations, you understand that "have said" is the past, of course, referring to what has been said in this life and not what they could mean in the future (in fact, Jesus He is condemning the Pharisees who have just asserted that he drive out demons by Beelzebub). Of this they realized the Day of Judgment. In Matthew 23: 33-36 Jesus condemns the nation of Israel, especially the scribes and Pharisees for their hypocrisy and violence and says "that is on you all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Barachiah, whom you assassinaste between the sanctuary and the altar. " How could anyone ask for the blood of Abel and of all those who died later if their murderers were dead and then become sinless? In 2 Timothy 4:14 the apostle Paul said, "Alexander the coppersmith has brought me much evil - Jehovah will repay him according to his works." Jehovah would have made according to his works when? Before his death, that is, in the first century? Perhaps Jehovah intervened to punish all the persecutors of Christians in the first century? Is it not clear that the apostle Paul is saying that Jehovah would remember the works of this Alessandro on Judgment Day? From these writings it is clear that death does not automatically delete the sin but I will only do the Jehovah's Judgment - Compare Revelation 18: 5 As Romans 6:23 says the wages sin pays is death, and so, even if the death repay the debt, they need to remain in death . This means that their eventual resurrection, however, should answer for their sins because, indeed, have not remained in that condition. In fact the word "salary" and "pays" fit perfectly into this concept. If because of my debts I had to sell my property (so paying back my debts) can not take back what I sold. If i resuming the money I sold the property just to eradicate that debt , I would be back in debt. The only way to recover those properties in a lawful is that someone pay instead of me giving me back the properties . In fact the writing of Romans 6:23 ends with the words ... "but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord." Christ paid the debt for us, allowing us to not remain in death or giving back the life that we had legally lost - Compare Matthew 18: 23-27 However this seems to suggest that the Day of Judgment will not automatically mean the destruction of sinners, and it is probably no coincidence that Jesus used the word "bear" - Matthew 10:15 By harmonizing the words of Paul, who harbored the hope that there would be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous, we can assume that it will be a period which governs, in extreme cases will lead to ultimate death, while everyone else will consist in a probationary period, more or less long and more or less hard, which will aim to achieve salvation - Compare Matthew 5:25, 26 There are many indications about it and then we do not go beyond what is written but in fact the book Revelation makes it clear that the resurrection will occur at the end of the millennium (not during), and that people will be judged on what you You are found written. How they will weigh the individual sins of each individual is not known, but we are grateful that Christ Jesus to judge and not a simple man! He being the image of God, we can be sure that his judgment will be just and right - Deuteronomy 32: 4; John 5:21, 22; 8:15, 16 Let's try to address this question too. Is death to eliminate sin or is it the sacrifice of Christ? More information came out in the conversation shown here https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/47137-does-death-really-erase-sins/ Please do not respond after 5 minutes because it will be clear that you have not read the scriptures. Â

I'm sorry. I have problems with "copy/paste". Now i post again

La morte cancella davvero i peccati? Una conseguenza del fatto che la risurrezione avviene alla fine del millennio sta chiedendo la questione di quali basi saranno giudicati risorto . Finora c'è stato insegnato che il risorto sarebbe giudicato in base a quello che avrebbero fatto dopo la loro resurrezione , che è, per un lungo periodo nel regno di Cristo. L'apostolo Paolo ha detto una volta ... "Io ho in Dio la speranza ... che ci sarà una risurrezione sia dei giusti che degli ingiusti" - Atti 24:15 Perché Paolo nutriva la speranza che ci fosse una resurrezione per gli ingiusti che, se fossero stati giudicati solo dalle loro azioni passate, avrebbe poi ucciso? Probabilmente questi "rotoli" conterrà molti dettagli della vita delle persone e magari aggiungerà le istruzioni dettagliate su come procedere, valutare e mitigare le cause, ed è ragionevole credere che ci potrebbe essere anche un momento di prova per almeno alcuni dei loro. Noi non abbiamo particolari su di esso, ma Geova è il giudice giusto e sicuramente farà in modo che tutte le persone degne hanno la possibilità di vivere ed essere felici - Confronta Matteo 10:15 e Luca 10:13, 14 Tuttavia, il libro biblico di Rivelazione insegna che la risurrezione avverrà alla fine del millennio e non durante, e quindi dobbiamo accettare le Scritture. La scrittura è detto che il resto dei morti non tornò in vita finché i mille anni non furono finiti - Rivelazione 20: 5 " Fino a quando" significa "fino al momento in cui" e non "durante" e ciò sembrerebbe suggerire che questi mille anni, eletti avrebbe regnato sui sopravvissuti di Armageddon e le loro famiglie, ma non su qualsiasi risorto. Lo stesso termine, "lungo" usata in Matteo 1:25, abbiamo sempre usato per dimostrare, ai sostenitori della verginità di Maria, Giuseppe non ha avuto rapporti sessuali con la moglie fino alla nascita del bambino (e questo indica che dopo questa nascita di Maria e Joseph consumato il matrimonio come qualsiasi altra coppia di sposi). Questo dovrebbe essere sufficiente a dimostrare che la resurrezione avverrà dopo la fine del millennio , un concetto che sembra essere ripetuto nei versetti 12 e 13. Se questo è corretto, come dovremmo comprendere le parole di Paolo descritti in Romani 6: 7 che "colui che è morto è stato assolto dai suoi peccati"? Se la morte è stato assolto dal peccato ... perché allora è stato giudicato nel Giorno del Giudizio, e la risurrezione, secondo le cose scritte nei rotoli? Questa apparente contraddizione ha portato a pensare che il giorno del giudizio sarebbe avvenuto in realtà in tutto il regno millenario di Cristo e verrà giudicato su quello che la gente avrebbe fatto in questo periodo . La durata del regno di Cristo sarebbe in armonia con il concetto di "giorno" espresso nelle Scritture - II Pietro 3: 8 Segnala Post Pubblicato 7 novembre 2017 La morte cancella veramente peccato? Tuttavia, analizzando il contesto di Romani capitolo 6 non è chiaro a tutti che il giudizio non si verifica in base a quanto è stato fatto quando era vivo. Paolo, infatti, parlando della Unto dice che "è morto con riferimento al peccato" e che sono stati battezzati nella morte di Cristo. Dice anche che sono stati "sepolti con lui" di battesimo e che il battesimo costituivano, in effetti, una "novità di vita." E 'chiaro che Paolo sta usando un linguaggio figurativo perché nessun cristiano, unto o no, è sepolto con Cristo . In altre parole, sembra che Paolo sta dicendo che solo non peccare più, che sta dimostrando di essere morto sulla vita precedente peccaminosa e dimostrando fede nel sacrificio di riscatto di Cristo , è libero dal giudizio. Il versetto 8 dice anche "siamo morti con Cristo" e "crediamo che anche vivremo con lui," ma ovviamente Paolo non era veramente morto, o con Cristo o per chiunque altro. Lui e molti altri erano morti rispetto alla vita di prima e ora vissuto una "vita nuova". Avendo deciso di essere morto dalla vita precedente lui e gli altri erano stati "liberati dal loro peccato." Questo è in armonia con le parole di Gesù quando ha detto che coloro che vorrebbero ascoltare la sua parola e esercitato fede in lui non sarebbe andato a processo - Giovanni 5:24 Inoltre, se il peccato la morte è stata annullata, come dovremmo comprendere le parole di Rivelazione 06:10? In questa scrittura si parla delle anime dei giusti che chiedono di essere rivendicato, ma si presume che gli autori di questi cristiani sono morti da tempo. Se la morte il peccato degli autori si è spenta ... su quali basi si può gridare vendetta? E chi dovrebbe vendicarsi questa vendetta se non ci sono più peccatori? Anche altri scritti aiutano a far luce su questo aspetto. Facendo riferimento a quelle città che non avrebbe sentito il messaggio, Gesù disse che il giorno del giudizio sarebbe più sopportabile per Sodoma e Gomorra che per loro - Matteo 10:14, 15; Matteo 11: 20-24 Perché sarebbe più "tollerabile" per Sodoma e Gomorra o Tiro e Sidone, anche se il peccato la morte sarebbe stato annullato e la risurrezione sarebbe tutto di nuovo da zero? Nello stesso principio si può ragionare su ciò che viene detto in Apocalisse 14:13. La scrittura si riferisce a cristiani e dice: "Beati i morti ... perché le cose che hanno fatto andare a destra con loro." Se le cose buone vengono conservate in memoria di Geova anche dopo la morte, non è ragionevole credere che questo accade per il resto? Matteo 12:36 dice: "Io vi dico che di ogni parola inutile che gli uomini hanno detto renderanno conto nel giorno del giudizio." Se leggiamo solo ciò che è scritto senza cercare interpretazioni articolate, si capisce che "hanno detto" è il passato, naturalmente, riferendosi a quanto è stato detto in questa vita e non ciò che potrebbe significare per il futuro (in effetti, Gesù ha è condannando i farisei che hanno appena affermato che lui guidare i demoni per Beelzebub). Di questo si sono resi conto nel giorno del giudizio. In Matteo 23: 33-36 Gesù condanna la nazione di Israele, in particolare gli scribi ei farisei per la loro ipocrisia e la violenza e dice "che è in voi tutto il sangue giusto sparso sulla terra, dal sangue del giusto Abele fino al sangue di Zaccaria figlio di Barachia, che si assassinaste tra il santuario e l'altare. " Come si può chiedere il sangue di Abele e di tutti coloro che sono morti in seguito, se i loro assassini erano morti e poi diventare senza peccato? In 2 Timoteo 4:14 l'apostolo Paolo disse: "Alessandro il ramaio, mi ha portato molto male -. Geova gli renderà secondo le sue opere" Geova avrebbe fatto secondo le sue opere quando? Prima della sua morte, cioè, nel primo secolo? Forse Geova intervenne per punire tutti i persecutori dei cristiani nel primo secolo? Non è forse chiaro che l'apostolo Paolo dice che Geova avrebbe ricordato le opere di questo Alessandro sul Giorno del Giudizio? Da questi scritti è chiaro che la morte non cancella automaticamente il peccato, ma farà solo del giudizio di Geova - Confronta Rivelazione 18: 5 Come Romani 6:23 dice che il salario che il peccato paga è la morte, e così, anche se la morte ripagare il debito, hanno bisogno di rimanere nella morte . Ciò significa che la loro eventuale resurrezione, tuttavia, dovrebbe rispondere per i loro peccati, perché, in effetti, non sono rimasti in quelle condizioni. In realtà la parola "salario" e "paga" si inseriscono perfettamente in questo concetto. Se a causa dei miei debiti ho dovuto vendere la mia proprietà (in modo da ripagare i miei debiti) non può riprendere quello che ho venduto. Se i riprendere i soldi che ho venduto la proprietà solo per sradicare quel debito , sarei tornato in debito. L'unico modo per recuperare le proprietà in modo lecito è che qualcuno paga invece di darmi indietro le proprietà . In realtà la scrittura di Romani 6:23 si conclude con le parole ... "ma il dono che dà Dio è la vita eterna in Cristo Gesù, nostro Signore." Cristo ha pagato il debito per noi, che ci permette di non rimanere la morte o restituire la vita che avevamo perso legalmente - Confronta Matteo 18: 23-27 Tuttavia, questo sembra suggerire che il Giorno del Giudizio non significherà automaticamente la distruzione dei peccatori, ed è probabilmente un caso che Gesù ha usato la parola "orso" - Matteo 10:15 Armonizzando le parole di Paolo, che nutriva la speranza che ci sarebbe stata una risurrezione sia dei giusti che degli ingiusti, si può supporre che si tratterà di un periodo che governa, in casi estremi porterà alla morte definitiva, mentre tutti gli altri saranno consistere in un periodo di prova, più o meno lungo e più o meno duro, che avrà lo scopo di raggiungere la salvezza - Confronta Matteo 05:25, 26 Ci sono molte indicazioni su di esso e poi non vanno al di là di ciò che è scritto, ma in realtà il libro dell'Apocalisse chiarisce che la risurrezione avverrà alla fine del millennio (non durante), e che le persone saranno giudicati su quello che si sono trovati scritto. Come si pesano i singoli peccati di ogni individuo non è noto, ma siamo grati che Cristo Gesù per giudicare e non un semplice uomo! Egli è l'immagine di Dio, possiamo essere sicuri che il suo giudizio sarà giusto e retto - Deuteronomio 32: 4; Giovanni 5:21, 22; 08:15, 16 Una cosa è chiara come bene. È la morte per cancellare il peccato o è il sacrificio di Cristo? Altre informazioni è venuto fuori nella conversazione mostrato qui https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/47137-does-death-really-erase-sins/ Per favore non rispondere dopo 5 minuti perché sarà chiaro che non avete letto le Scritture.

Dear DeeDee, I know this writing and I also know its context. Do you know the context well? Since this topic has already been discussed, perhaps you should take the time to read what has been written, is not it? Try reading what has been written. Rate the scriptures and then give me your objection

Thank you. Perhaps I understood your objection (at least part of your objection). The writing says that "thrones were placed to judge the dead" - Revelation 20: 4 In the meantime, no one has said that "we are left to the betrayal" for a thousand years because these thrones are put exclusively to judge the dead. Obviously the elect are elected a long time before (to the sound of the 7° trumpet, in fact). They will be "kings and priests" and they will lead the people of God from Armageddon onwards. As you can see, there is no contradiction in this. What will the dead be judged on? This question, unfortunately, starts with an incorrect intention. Does death really erase sins? The point is exactly this. Will the dead be judged by what they "do" (future) or what they will do when they were alive? This topic was discussed here https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/47137-does-death-really-erase-sins/ If we take the arguments one by one, you will see that there is no contradiction. Obviously I do not expect you to give the reason. I expect you to compare the Scriptures without preconceptions Thank you

Dear John Houston, I can hardly understand what you have written. Unfortunately my English is not good. I want to isolate a sentence that I may have understood. Perhaps your objection is: "If the dead are resurrected after the destruction of Satan, what will they be judged? What proof will they have?". it's correct?

Dear TrueTomHarley, have you gone from criticizing my posts to get to give me advice on how to "put me better" in front of others? Well, I thank you for this and I will take your advice to heart. In the next article I will write I will only ask a series of questions. Can I count on your Scriptural answers? I do not find myself indispensable and if I "end up under a truck", I am sure that other people (before me or after me, and perhaps better than me) would raise the same issues, the same "problems". This is one more reason to focus on the contents of a speech and not on the person. I agree with you that the most important thing is to be focused on the example of Christ. This is undoubtedly the most important and perhaps the most difficult thing to achieve. I must point out that one aspect of Christ's personality (among many other aspects) was love for the Word of God. I do not think I have "arrived" or even a "right" person. I have so many things that I must improve and what I have understood (if I have understood it) is thanks exclusively to the undeserved kindness of God. Also for this reason I feel like my duty to speak to my brothers, despite the difficulties and criticisms, of these things. I believe that it is very important. I thank you for the Scriptural examples you mentioned and I thank you sincerely for the concern you show towards me. I assure you that I take great care not to become a victim of my own speeches. I question myself very often. Simply, my love for the Word of God urges me to look for answers in the Bible, only in the Bible. If I am convinced through the Scriptures that certain of my conclusions are wrong, I assure you that I change immediately and even everything. I have no interest, no one, to make me followers. If you have an important message to give to people, you try to do it, is not it? You try to give this message even if you know it will be "hard to accept" is not it? I assure you that I would have spared many "headaches" if I had avoided writing certain things. it is much easier to "keep quiet" than to start certain conversations. So I thank you very much for your advice on how to start a conversation. I will take these advice to heart but I will continue to talk about the things I have understood because this is true respect for the Word of God. And indeed I encourage all those who read this message to participate in the conversation not "to cheer a team" nor starting from the principle to establish "who is right" but only with the aim of better understanding some prophecies of the Word of God. And, be it clear, this also includes the possibility of having to accept (only the possibility) some truths that are very different from those that have been taught to us. To accept, one must be mature. Thanks again, TrueTomHarley, and so I hope I can start a frank and respectful conversation only with the Word of God.

Dear TrueTomHarley, I focus on the most important words you wrote. My criticism of the "governing body" has nothing to do with "lack of respect" or "denigration". I do not understand why you have to confuse a (even strong) criticism with the lack of respect. What we can not understand is that we have two different concepts of respect. Always saying "yes, you're right" is a form of respect? Really? Or is it a form of formal worship? I have respect for those who have a great responsibility, but this does not mean that they have to recognize everything they say or do. Finally it is a question of balance. I try to explain the point. In my study of the Bible I come to understand some things (maybe it's right, maybe it's wrong but in honest conscience). As long as the interpretations of the governing body are secondary, I can also "make ends of nothing". When some interpretations in my opinion (perhaps wrong) are not in harmony with the Scripture, what should I do? According to you I should "shut up" because "they deserve respect". My total and unconditional respect is addressed to the Word of God. it's clear? This means that if a teaching goes against the Word of God (even if done in good faith) I give precedence to the Word of God. I have dedicated myself to Jehovah, do you understand? I have not dedicated myself to the "faithful and discreet slave", not to "jw.org" not to "warwick" or anyone else. I have learned from the Bible that you must study personally and accurately, and you must draw your conclusions once you have meditated and prayed. My conclusions (right or wrong) are that many brothers have become "idolaters" because they have elevated "commands of men" over the same Bible! The things you wrote are true only in a small part. I did not look for a probable idolatry and then find it in the Scriptures. the opposite has happened. To see that many brothers take a picture with the character of the governing body, or that they buy the medallion with the inscription "YHWH", or that they buy flags or t-shirts with the inscription "jw.org" it makes me sick (it's true ) but it does not make me stumble. Do you know why I do not stumble over these things? Because I had read in the Bible that this would happen. I speak of biblical understanding. mine is not "a protest" or a revolution. Mine is exclusively a biblical research and my attempt is to bring attention to the Bible. Also I would like to point out something. speaking with DeeDee I wrote clearly (it's just an example) that the apostle Paul identifies the trumpet related to the spiritual resurrection as "the last trumpet". I would be happy to have a conversation, without preconceptions, to understand if Revelation is written chronologically or not. I have published many articles on this blog. Has there ever been a constructive conversation? Have we ever entered the subject in an attempt to understand what the Bible says? Or have our "conversations" stopped at "you are not the faithful and discreet slave" or "are you an apostate" or "you can not have the biblical understanding" and similar things? Who is the idolater? Every day we are encouraged to "study the Bible" but what does this mean in your opinion? Does it mean "study the Bible only if your conclusions are in harmony with the Governing Body"? My personal experience counts for nothing and it is not because of my personal experience that I started making these articles. On the contrary: these are my research without preconceptions, in the light of the Scriptures. I consider the Bible the only authority and so you too. However, there are other "authorities" that prevent you from carefully examining the Scriptures. There are the "masters of the Law" who claim to be the only ones to understand it. There are those who say "Yes is right" or "No, it's wrong". Do you really believe that these articles of mine are "born" from the fact that I saw hypocrisy and idolatry in some brother? Absolutely not. Do you believe that I have "mounted my head"? Absolutely not. Interpretations belong to Jehovah. I do this because it is a responsibility. Then, of course, you can believe what you want. Some people (but I would dare to say "many") consider the guide (which is only a middle) as the ultimate end of worship. The copper serpent was a loving provision by Jehovah that the people would not die but after a few years became an idol. You are really sure that the medium that would lead us into the "promised land", did not become an idol? You are free to think about what you want but when we turn off our faculties of perception and consider the words of men equal or superior to the Bible, this is idolatry. Jesus, who was the most knowledgeable person ever existed, said many times "is written". You say, practically always, "The faithful and discreet slave says" even if what he says strides with the Word of God. Everyone makes their own assessments. I am nobody and I can not judge anyone. Jehovah is the just judge, only him. If you are convinced of "studying the Bible without preconceptions", agree. The right thing to do would be to help each other but this is not possible because every "criticism" is seen as "lack of respect".

Dear DeeDee, I perfectly agree with what you write. However, let's try to apply these your words to 360 degrees. By nature, I often question myself but, as you can see, there are many people who are not able to do it. The only weapon we have for not falling into Satan's deception is to study the Word of God carefully - Matthew 4: 5-7 Each of us can fall into error but whoever is able to call into question can try to fix that mistake. But whoever is not able to do it (because you are an apostate if you try to re-discuss anything) then it is very easy to fall into Satan's deception. it was the people of Israel who fell into error when they were convinced that "they had the Temple of God" and therefore they would be protected. Does not it seem the same attitude that some have today? The Israelites had the Temple and we have jw.org The Israelites had the temple but we have "the faithful and discreet slave" that, as I pointed out in the Watchtower of 2013, is not yet declared "faithful and discreet". Each of us can fall into error but at least distinguish between those who really study the Bible and those who study the Bible only if they do not have to contradict "the official understanding". I share what you write, but we apply these words to 360 degrees. Thank you

Your fears are founded. Also I think there's a risk that someone started to adore what was meant to be a medium. Like the copper snake. Also I think that some people have started to depend entirely on some people, without doing research in the Word of God. I think this will be useful to distinguish who really loves the Word of God (and therefore is able to get back into question) by those who love a human organization. Who likes to do accurate research and who, on the contrary, loves tranquility. Those who love to dig into the Word of God and those who love to hear say "everything is fine." We do our research for you. " I think it's "Better is the end of a matter than its beginning" and so we just have to wait. In the meantime, we have the Bible with us. Maybe someone will understand that "being Bereans" means carefully evaluating "IF things are really like that" and it is different from concluding, always and in any case, that "things are just like that". But "things have to be so by force" otherwise you are an apostate or, if all goes well, a person full of yourself.

Thank you, DeeDee, for your kind and peaceful response. In this way we should discuss the Word of God even if we did not agree on the interpretation. I fully agree with you on some things. Jehovah's wonderful message does not change and He wants none of us to be destroyed. The good news of the Kingdom can be preached without having to "clash" on certain understandings. However, I am deeply convinced that each of us personally has to make a careful study of the Word of God and this also includes an understanding of the prophecies - Proverbs 2: 1-5 Prophecy is not a secondary thing and should not be underestimated - 1 Thessalonians 5:20, 21 The Bible encourages us to make sure of everything and this responsibility does not have only the "faithful and discreet slave" but each one of us. Moreover I would like to remember (and I do not want to make controversy) that the "slave" will be declared "faithful and discreet" only at the beginning of Armageddon (not before). In this regard you can find the explanation in the Watchtower of July 15, 2013 (the first study article entitled "Tell us: when do these things happen?"). With this I do not want to say that what the governing body teaches "is all wrong". I have respect for those who have this important responsibility. So this means that today there are sincere people who try to understand the Bible, but there is still no "faithful and discreet slave". Surely this understanding will again be "modified" because it is too uncomfortable for some but it does not matter. The Bible is clear in this regard: each of us must study carefully and meditate on the word of God. This includes the fact that if you come to understand some things that are different from the official understanding, you must talk about it with respect. This is what I'm trying to do. Of course I can be wrong, like everyone else, so it is appropriate to have an open conversation in the light of the Scriptures without having preconceptions. This does not mean "to stumble" someone because those who truly love God and His Word do not stumble - Psalm 119: 165 I am not saying that the Bible is not the Word of God, is not it? I am not saying that Christ is not the Son of God. I am not bringing another teaching. These things could "stumble" but I have the utmost respect for the Word of God. I have not dedicated myself to the "faithful and discreet slave" or even to a human organization. I dedicated myself to Jehovah and the words of Jehovah are found exclusively in the Bible. Those who love God try to understand His Will through His Word and do not remain waiting for "others" to do research in his place or to tell him what to believe and what not to believe. So, concluding the speech, even if I partly share what you write about the hope and the good news of the Kingdom, if Revelation was written in chronological order, the question is not "secondary" at all. This means that the times of fulfillment of certain prophecies are wrong (even some dates that we consider very important) and also certain subjects are completely different. The most important thing, this would mean that our expectations for the future are not in harmony with the Word of God. It also means that some prophecies could be fulfilled right now and we, focused on other things, do not realize it. the prophecy "shines in a dark place" but have we really lent "more than the usual attention"? - 2 Peter 1:19, 20; Hebrews 2: 1 Or are we living on rent waiting for someone else to tell us what to believe and what to do? Jehovah will judge us personally and not as a people. I wish you to personally ascertain these things without "cheering for a team" because, as you can see, it is not very easy to talk about the Bible with the brothers. The near future may be different from what we imagined.

Buenos días. Como puede haber visto en mis artículos, he reconsiderado muchas doctrinas oficiales del Consejo de Administración de los testigos de Jehová. No hice esto para desacreditar al pueblo de Dios (porque sé muy bien que este es el único pueblo de Dios en la tierra), sino que, por el contrario, lo hice con toda honestidad y conciencia para atenerme a las Sagradas Escrituras. No discutí el "Nombre de Dios" o incluso Cristo Jesús o los 144,000. No he discutido la mayoría de las doctrinas primarias. Sin embargo, he vuelto a discutir la interpretación de las profecías porque creo que están equivocadas tanto en tiempos de cumplimiento como en temas. Es muy importante prestar atención a las profecías sin tener actitudes de sujeción a las personas - 1 Tesalonicenses 5:20, 21 Dentro de poco tiempo comenzará una persecución muy fuerte para nuestros hermanos en Rusia y en los otros países de la antigua Unión Soviética. Se trata de un preofezia bíblica clara y específica. Alguien dirá que "la gran tribulación se acerca", pero otras cosas deben suceder antes de la gran tribulación. Sería provechoso determinar realmente lo que la Biblia enseña. Desafortunadamente mi español no es perfecto. Espero que deseen evaluar, a la luz de las Escrituras, si estos asuntos están en armonía con la Biblia o no. la Biblia es la única autoridad. Antes de pensar que cada mensaje contrario a la línea oficial es "apostasía", ¿le gustaría evaluar, con la Biblia, algún argumento "extraño"? - Hechos 17:11

I fully agree that something that may seem "illogical" to humans can be perfectly logical for Jehovah. Jehovah's thoughts are superior to those of man. Furthermore, Jehovah is the Creator and therefore knows everything perfectly. However, the fact that Revelation "is not written in chronological order" who established it? Have you read in the Bible "Revelation is not in chronological order"? Who establishes it? This has been established by some people in an absolutely arbitrary manner. Nowhere if Revelation is written "not in chronological order" the most normal thing to do is to read the context carefully. The seals of the scroll that the Lamb opens are sequential? Or do you believe that He first opened the fifth (for example) and then the first? Are the seven cups x of the wrath of God sequential or not? The trumpets are sequential (exactly like seals and cups) and this is demonstrated not only by logic but also by Scripture. In fact, the apostle Paul, speaking of the trumpet concerning the resurrection, calls it "the last trumpet" - 1 Corinthians 15:51 Is this true or am I inventing it? If you go to read, in Revelation, when the last trumpet sounds (Revelation 11:15) you will see that a few verses later, the Kingdom of God is born (Revelation 12: 1-6). If the seventh trumpet is the "last trumpet", this means that other trumpets (ie trumpets ranging from 1 to 6) was before, is not it? But the governing body says that the seventh trumpet sounds in 1914 (go to see chapter 26 of the book "Revelation its Grand Climax") while the fifth trumpet plays in 1919 (go to see chapter 22 of the book "Revelation its Grand Climax") while the sixth trumpet from 1922 onwards arrive until the assembly held in Toronto on July 24, 1927 (see chapter 23 of the same book). Then the fifth trumpet plays in 1919, the sixth trumpet plays in 1922 and the seventh trumpet plays in 1914. So not only is there no logic (the first four trumpets, in the same way, are in scattered order) but contradicts the words of Paul. If the seventh trumpet sounds in 1914, then it is not "the last trumpet". What I want to say is simple. The book of Revelation may have been written in chronological order or in non-chronological order. In any case, it is not "four people" who decide whether it is written in chronological order or not but the context. The context makes us understand, whether we like it or not, that Revelation is written in chronological order. This has nothing to do with "the thoughts of Jehovah". Jehovah's thoughts are superior to ours and will always be superior but He has given the Bible to us to study it with care - Proverbs 2: 1-5

That Revelation is not written in chronological order, you have established it. Jehovah did not establish it. I understand that it is easy to get confused.

Jehovah has placed the knowledge of "times ... in his own jurisdiction", so it is not for us "to know the times." My article has not talked about times. Only of scriptural logic. Daniel had to study the Scriptures profoundly to understand how many years they would be prisoners of Babylon - Daniel 9: 2 Daniel did not know that "God has set the times in his authority"? Isa. 55:8, 9 8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, And your ways are not my ways,” declares Jehovah. 9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So my ways are higher than your ways And my thoughts [are higher] than your thoughts. I totally agree. Obviously, Jehovah, in his profound wisdom, made His Word written for us (small and limited) so that we could study it and take care of it - Acts 17:11 Acts 6, 7 6 So when they had assembled, they asked him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” 7 He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction. Did my article talk about times and seasons? spoke of Armageddon's date, perhaps? Prov. 20:3 It is honorable for a man to refrain from a dispute… Am I doing some quarrel or am I trying to show what the scriptures say? - 2 Corinthians 10: 4 Perhaps, for you, "making a dispute" means re-discussing your beliefs? - Romans 12: 2 Eccl. 6:11 The more words, the more futility; and what advantage do they bring to man? Do the words of Ecclesiastes apply to speaking of God and the Word of God? So we should not talk about God? - Matthew 22:37, 38 Love for God urges us to talk about Him and His Word and this does not mean "making disputes". If we have a belief that goes against the Scriptures, simply, instead of "making disputes", we must adapt to the Word of God. My article, which quotes many scriptures, wants to push for reflection. Obviously it is difficult for those who see disputes everywhere or believe they have understood everything can get back into question - Matthew 11:25, 26

The sixth one poured out his bowl on the great river Eu·phra?tes,+ and its water was dried up+ to prepare the way for the kings+ from the rising of the sun – Revelation 16:12  Who are the "kings coming from the rising sun" described in Revelation 16:12? The question might seem silly or too simple. All Jehovah's Witnesses, or nearly all, have learned that the kings from the rising sun are Jehovah and His Son Christ. The book "Revelation its climax" in this regard says Â… This is also bad news for Babylon the Great! 21 At the height of the splendor of ancient Babylon, the copious waters of the Euphrates were a fundamental element of its defensive system. In 539 a.E.V. those waters dried up when their course was diverted by the Persian leader Cyrus. This allowed Cyrus the Persian and Darius the Medus, the kings coming from the "rising sun" (ie from the east), to enter and conquer Babylon. At the crucial moment the Euphrates failed as a defense of that great city. (Isaiah 44: 27-45: 7; Jeremiah 51:36) Something similar must happen to modern Babylon, the world system of false religion. 22 Babylon the Great "sits on many waters". According to Revelation 17: 1, 15, these symbolize "peoples and crowds and nations and tongues", multitudes of followers whom it considers a protection. But the "waters" are drying up! In Western Europe, where it once exerted great influence, hundreds of millions of people are now openly without religion. In some countries, for many years a policy has been stubbornly aimed at eradicating the influence of religion. In these countries the masses did not rise in its defense. Likewise, when the time comes when Babylon the Great will have to be destroyed, the decreasing number of her followers will turn out to be no protection for her. (Revelation 17:16) Although boasting of having billions of followers, Babylon the Great will find herself helpless before the "kings coming from the rising sun". 23 Who are these kings? In 539 a.E.V. they were Darius the Medus and Cyrus the Persian, who were employed by Jehovah to conquer the ancient city of Babylon. On this day of the Lord, the false religious system of Babylon the Great will be equally destroyed by human rulers. But once again it will be a divine judgment. Jehovah God and Jesus Christ, the "kings coming from the rising sun," will have to put the "thought" of turning against Babylon the Great and completely destroying it in the hearts of human rulers. (Revelation 17:16, 17) The pouring of the sixth cup publicly proclaims that this judgment is about to be performed! (paragraphs 20 to 23, pages 229-230 of the Italian edition).   Are the Almighty God and His Son Christ the "kings coming from the rising sun"?   However, some questions arise. Let us admit that Cyrus and Darius represent Jehovah and Christ (even if it seems a somewhat risky parallel) and we admit that we can skip the action of the United Nations * (see footnote) because of what Revelation 17: 17 says. "Preparing the way" means creating the conditions to pass. Also wanting to assert that instead of referring to the passage we refer to something else (how to carry out a destruction) "preparing the way" always means "creating the favorable conditions for doing something". It is clear that if we talk about Cyrus and Darius, they, being simple human beings, really needed someone to prepare the way because if they could not divert the Euphrates River they would never cross the borders of Babylon. Can we say the same about Jehovah and Christ? Do they need someone to "prepare the way for them" in order to cross or defeat anyone? Obviously not - Isaiah 40:15 It is also reasonable to believe that the angel in charge of pouring the cup on the Euphrates River to prepare the way for Jehovah and Christ as to simplify them things? The current explanation in effect says that Jehovah and Christ will destroy Babylon the Great, by which time the people (represented by the water of the river) does not protect you anymore. But does God Almighty and His Son Christ really need to weaken the defensive walls of Babylon the Great in order to destroy it? Moreover, if indeed Babylon the Great loses the love of her lovers, is not the strange reaction that kings and traders show immediately after its destruction? - compare Revelation 18: 9-19 The official explanation states "The reaction of nations may seem surprising if we take into account the fact that Babylon was destroyed by the symbolic ten horns of the scarlet wild beast. (Revelation 17:16) But once Babylon, the" kings of earth "will clearly show how useful it was to keep the people quiet and subservient" (Chapter 37, paragraph 2). So Babylon the Great had lost the love of her lovers, had not lost it or regained it after its destruction? - Compare Revelation 18: 7 Moreover, the nations were not aware even before this nation "was useful for them to keep the people quiet and subservient"? ** Let us reflect on the words of Revelation 17:15 which identify the waters as "peoples and crowds and nations and languages". If the waters are people, and these are placed to protect a nation, they can lower themselves in two different ways. Either these people lose interest in that nation (ie they do not protect it any more and then it would really mean that its lovers got fed up with her) or those people simply are gone - compare Revelation 9: 13-15 (see also Jeremiah 50: 35-38; 51:36, 37) Furthermore, in the basic writing of this article the water of the Euphrates river only dries up when the angel pours his cup.  This means that up until a moment before the river bed was normally swollen. These reflections should cast a shadow over all those disquisitions that would wish for Babylon the Great to lose more and more consensus and that this is an indication of its imminent destruction. If the angel did not pour the sixth cup of God's wrath on the Euphrates River, water would not dry up at all. Otherwise, someone will be able to find a scripture where it says that the water goes down "about his business" and the bowl of God's only serves to give "the final blow." Nowhere, however, is there any indication of this. Moreover, if it were people who were tired of Babylon the Great (as the lowering of the waters is currently being interpreted), what good is it for God to put his thought into their hearts? - see Revelation 17:17 If it is people who get tired of their lover, they would not destroy it of their own free will? Do we have to suppose that this direct action by God only serves to speed up the times? It does not seem so. As the Lord himself said: “Knowing their thoughts, he said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself comes to ruin, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26  In the same way, if Satan expels Satan, he has become divided against himself; how, then, will his kingdom stand?” - Matthew 12:25, 26 Babylon the Great is a fundamental part of the system of Satan for which he, as the ruler of the world, would have no interest in bringing down or even just watching while the waters are lowering. If it were for Satan, Babylon the Great would last forever but they will lower themselves exclusively because of God's will and against all expectations. Not by chance, in fact, the cup of the previous wrath (the fifth) is poured on the throne of the wild beast and it is said that it is obscured. This means that now, these kings, at least for a while will no longer have control over it - Revelation 16:10 Here, then, that the reaction of kings and traders becomes absolutely logical. They have never ceased to love her but for a reason that they will not be able to explain themselves, during an hour of madness, they will turn into their assassins. The lowering of the waters, therefore, means that now the people present near the great Euphrates River (who could be there for protection of the borders as for any other reason) are gone. If we look at the order of events described in chapter 16 of Revelation it seems to be so. Verse 12 speaks of the sixth cup of the wrath of God which dries up the great Euphrates River and soon afterwards, in verses 13 and 14, are seen "coming out of the mouth of the dragon and the mouth of the wild beast and the mouth of the false prophet three impure expressions inspired [that seemed] similar to frogs (...) and go to the kings of the entire inhabited earth, to gather them to the war of the great day of God Almighty. " If we cling to official understanding, does not it seem that something is missing between verse 12 and verse 13? If the drying up of the Euphrates about the loss of love against Babylon the Great, after this event you should not see the king's attack and then destroy it and then, only after, see the gathering to Armageddon? Where did the missing verse go? Or ... why is this episode not even mentioned? Even the theory of the book written in "non-chronological" order here lapses because we are not talking about what is written before or after; there would simply be a whole piece missing! Piece, among other things, to which two chapters will be dedicated later (see the article "who establishes the correct interpretation?"). This makes it clear that the topic is too important to have been "skipped". The answer is always simpler than the questions would allow you to imagine. There is no "missing piece" between verses 12 and 13 and no "complicated time play" because the lowering of waters simply indicates the elimination of those people. If the waters mean "peoples, crowds, nations and languages" these peoples, crowds, nations and languages now we are gone. Babylon the Great, therefore, has already been destroyed and that is why the next action of the rulers of the world is to prepare for the battle of Armageddon. As we have seen in previous articles, in fact, the destruction of Babylon the Great is a prelude to the war of Armageddon and not to the great tribulation. Now, going back to the question "who are the kings coming from the rising sun", how many chances are there that they are Jehovah and Christ, since there are no more people? Let's think about it for a moment. Before the water went down for those who had a problem entering that city? Would any armies placed to protect a nation be a problem for any spiritual creature or for other human beings? - compare Isaiah 8: 7 It is evident that it is human beings who need someone to prepare the way for them and a nation without several inhabitants has no barriers or impediments of any kind. Are these kings therefore human beings? And if they are human beings ... who are they?   They are human beings the kings from the rising sun?   From what we have learned, it is now easy to link the scriptures. We have seen that the gathering to Israel will be literal (that we treated in the article entitled "The appointed times of the nations"). We also saw that the ingathering will take place shortly before the war of Armageddon ( "Next stop: Israel"). By doing two plus two it will be easy to understand who these kings are, but let us see if the Scriptures give us reason to believe that the understanding is correct. Let's see what Isaiah 60: 1-3 tells us.  “Arise, O woman,+ shed light, for your light has come. The glory of Jehovah shines on you.+  2  For look! darkness will cover the earthAnd thick gloom the nations;But on you Jehovah will shine,And on you his glory will be seen.  3  Nations will go to your light+And kings+ to your shining splendor”. Speaking of the period in which there would have been "thick darkness" on the national groups (which period?) the woman would have risen and the kings, taken from all the nations, would have come to her luster. This scripture can not have been fulfilled in the past, is it not? In fact, the Israelites have never accepted people from other nations in their land as kings. It can not even be fulfilled in the new world because it speaks of "thick darkness on national groups". When should it be fulfilled, then? “Foreigners will build your walls,And their kings will minister to you,+For in my indignation I struck you,But in my favor* I will have mercy on you.+ 11  Your gates will be kept open constantly;+They will not be closed by day or by night,To bring to you the resources of the nations,And their kings will take the lead” - Isaiah 60:10, 11 Isaiah tells us where these kings come from (from nations around the world) and also says that they "will take the directive" in bringing their resources. “And you will actually drink the milk of nations,+At the breast of kings you will nurse;+And you will certainly know that I, Jehovah, am your Savior,And the Powerful One of Jacob is your Repurchaser.+ 17  Instead of the copper I will bring in gold,And instead of the iron I will bring in silver,Instead of the wood, copper,And instead of the stones, iron;And I will appoint peace as your overseers. And righteousness as your task assigners” - Isaiah 60:16, 17 (see also the details of Isaiah chapter 62). Obviously someone could say that these scriptures applied to the Israelites because, among other things, they suggest that these kings come to bow, to serve, not really to govern. We know that the scriptures also say this. But is this what Isaiah is talking about? Let the Bible respond. “I will set a sign among them, and I will send some of those who escape to the nations—to Tar?shish,+ Pul, and Lud,+ those who draw the bow, to Tu?bal and Ja?van,+ and to the faraway islands—who have not heard a report about me or seen my glory; and they will proclaim my glory among the nations.+ 20  They will bring all your brothers out of all the nations+ as a gift to Jehovah, on horses, in chariots, in covered wagons, on mules, and on swift camels, up to my holy mountain, Jerusalem,” says Jehovah, “just as when the people of Israel bring their gift in a clean vessel into the house of Jehovah.” 21  “I will also take some for the priests and for the Levites,” says Jehovah” - Isaiah 66:19-21 True, this writing can apply to those who "seize the kingdom" or the elect, who are taken from every part of the earth - Matthew 11:12 However, we have also seen that the structure of the post-armageddon Promised Land will in some respects be similar to that of the shadow of things - see Colossians 2:17 Obviously it will be infinitely better (see the article entitled "The temple of Ezekiel's vision is a reality!"). For example, we know that ancient characters such as Abraham, Moses and David will serve as princes in the new world and therefore there will be a sort of hierarchy of theocratic bill even if our only King will always be only Jesus Christ. Do we have to wait for the end of a thousand years to have superintendents, kings or princes directing the affairs in the country? This would not make sense. From what we understand, among those who repopulate Israel at the end of the satanic system, will be chosen "kings", or "majestic" who will take the directive among the people - Nehemiah 10:28, 29 In harmony with this, the chief leaders of the tribes of Israel were called princes and the 68th Psalm says that kings would bring gifts - see Psalm 68: 27-29 Psalm 138: 4 says, "All the kings of the earth will praise you, O Jehovah, for they will have heard the sayings of your mouth" and it is evident that these "kings" can not be those who stand against Jehovah and His Anointed at the battle of Armageddon. They are kings definitely different. If we think about it, it's not what we've always been told? During the Millennial Kingdom and also in the New World some will be chosen to be the "sarim" and will take the directive at various levels. The difference with this understanding is that no one has told us that some of these people will be chosen already before or during the attainment of the Promised Land *** (also because the literal repopulation of Israel has never been taken into consideration and also the belief that the resurrection would have occurred "during" the millennium made it impossible to understand these scriptures). Jehovah will somehow choose "kings" among the survivors of the nations to repopulate the land that bears His Name. The fact that these kings come from the "rising sun" (ie from the east) is a further confirmation of their identity. In Daniel 11:44, or in the story parallel to the event of Revelation 16:12, it is said that the king of the north will be troubled by the news that will come from the "east and north". In the article already mentioned, namely the one entitled "Next stop: Israel" we have specifically seen why this king is so perplexed. He sees the people of God gathered and intent on reaching the Promised Land and behind all this he sees clearly the work of God. Therefore, the kings coming from the rising sun are not Jehovah and Jesus but they are those people chosen by all the nations of whom Jehovah will be pleased, who will take the directive for their whole spiritual family - Ezekiel 20:40, 41 And of course, unlike the Israelites of the past, they will not forget to have a king over them - 1 Timothy 6:15; Revelation 19:16 How do you feel about learning this? Do you hope to be among them?  Footnotes * In this and other articles the term "United Nations" was used, indicating the scarlet beast with seven heads and ten horns described in Revelation. We know that today it is represented by the United Nations but it is said that in the future this military / political agglomeration will not be called "Congress of the peoples" or in any other way.  ** "They were useful for keeping the people quiet and submissive": obviously the official explanation is that Babylon the Great is the world empire of false religion. We know, however, that their despair is due precisely to the fact that they lose the opportunity to continue with their illicit trafficking.  *** The fact that writing identifies them as kings before actual entry into the Promised Land may suggest that Jehovah has already named them as such. However, it is not certain that this appointment takes place only a certain period after under the Millennial Kingdom which begins with the destruction of the kings at Armageddon.  As was stated in the article entitled "Next stop: Israel," Babylon the Great could be inhabited again when "the people gathered from all nations" will approach to it to repopulate. In this case the lowering of the waters described by the sixth cup would have to do with the destruction of the people of the surrounding area. It is reasonable to conclude that if the destruction of Babylon the Great begins Armageddon (and in this case we would already be in Armageddon) the people of God must be in the area so that all the armies of the world prepare themselves in an attempt to destroy it.

Dear DeeDee, for God the physical man is foolish but the whole Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach, to resume and to correct - 2 Timothy 3:16, 17 The physical man is he who follows the desires of the flesh; not the one who uses his mental faculties - 1 Corinthians 14:20 It is not you who determines if I am "carnal" or "spiritual". Whoever judges me is Jehovah. Meanwhile, try to refute the arguments with the scriptures (without forcing them)

En nuestro camino de estudio de las profecías, como ya vimos en varios artículos anteriores, nos encontraremos con algo que no hubiéramos creído posible. La comprensión de Babilonia la Grande, así como la concerniente al Armagedón, la Jerusalén de arriba o la Jerusalén celestial, en verdad han constituido grandes cambios en la comprensión oficial de los testigos de Jehová. No podemos ignorar los efectos de cadena que estos "cambios de visión" han producido y continúan produciendo en muchas otras doctrinas más o menos importantes. Al autor de este blog le gustaría sobre todo aclarar que todas las tesis presentadas hasta ahora nunca se han considerado inspiradas o infalibles y, por lo tanto, se invita a cada lector a hacer sus propias evaluaciones (y tal vez contribuir) mediante la comparación y meditación de las Escrituras sin ningún lesión. Al mismo tiempo, sin embargo, el autor está igualmente convencido de que los artículos mostraron respeto por la Biblia y la usaron como guía y autoridad suprema. Toda afirmación, siempre que era posible, estaba acompañada o confirmada por una o más Escrituras y, por lo tanto, aunque ciertos argumentos iban en contra de la enseñanza oficial, se decidió hacerlo con buena conciencia. La posible convicción firme del autor así como ciertas expresiones categóricas utilizadas se deben exclusivamente a esto: el apoyo de las Escrituras - Juan 17:17; 2 Timoteo 3:16, 17; 2 Corintios 10: 4, 5 El artículo que se desarrollará ahora, también consistirá en un cambio de visión significativo y veremos cómo, cambiando las condiciones, se vuelven reales o posibles escenarios que, hasta anteayer, habríamos considerado realmente exagerados - Job 42 : 2; Marcos 10:27 Lo más sabio que cada uno de nosotros puede hacer es evaluar que cada tesis presentada está realmente en armonía con las Escrituras, y nada más, sin encerrarse en la cáscara o remodelar el poder de Dios a lo que creemos posible - Marcos 12:24 ; Job 38: 4   ¿Qué sabemos con certeza sobre la batalla de Armagedón?  ¿Qué sabemos sobre la guerra de Armageddon? Hablando de la guerra del gran día del Dios Todopoderoso, ¿qué sabemos con certeza? - 1 Tesalonicenses 5:21 Bueno, sabemos que no se trata de una destrucción total debido a una guerra humana, una llamarada solar, un meteorito u otras tonterías de Hollywood - Isaías 45:18; Salmo 78:69; Eclesiastés 1: 4 Sabemos que es la guerra crucial en la que Dios se venga de sus enemigos y de los enemigos de su pueblo - Salmo 2: 3-6; Sofonia 1:18; Zacarías 2: 8 También sabemos que es la ocasión en que Jehová se magnifica y se da a conocer a las naciones - Ezequiel 36:22, 23 Es la guerra que librará a su pueblo de la opresión y la esclavitud y finalmente comenzará el Reino del Milenio - Éxodo 15: 11-13; Apocalipsis 7:10 Estos son información fiable. Por lo demás, cuando suceda, que usará, qué escenario se presentará justo antes del estallido de esta guerra, etc., solo se hacen suposiciones. Una de estas suposiciones, que parece tener una lógica estricta, es que el lugar en hebreo se llama Har-Maghedon, no es un lugar literal sino una situación. En la práctica, sería la situación en la que todos los enemigos de Dios se encuentran luchando contra su pueblo, donde sea que se encuentren. Esta conclusión parece absolutamente lógica porque ¿cómo podría una guerra de tales proporciones, que debería abarcar a toda la humanidad y, por lo tanto, a miles de millones de personas, tener lugar en un área geográfica tan pequeña? Es absurdo siquiera pensar en eso. Sin embargo, antes de cerrar nuestras facultades de percepción sobre cualquier tema contrario, tratamos de considerar lo siguiente - Santiago 1:19 En primer lugar, hemos visto que la guerra entre el rey del norte y el rey del sur, que es una profecía por venir, podría reducir en gran medida el número de personas presentes en la tierra, incluidos sus ejércitos: compare Apocalipsis 6: 3, 7, 8 Es un tema crudo del que no nos gustaría hablar, pero las profecías parecen claras. Este tema se examinó en varios artículos anteriores entre ellos uno titulado "¿Quién es el cuerno que se hizo muy grande?". Además, como vimos en el artículo titulado "¿Qué naciones desaparecen en Armagedón?" sabemos que la guerra del Armagedón no destruirá todas las naciones y personas en el planeta. Esta guerra destruirá el sistema satánico que incluye a la bestia salvaje, los reyes de la tierra y sus ejércitos - 1 Juan 3: 8 Visto desde este punto de vista, ¿tal vez el hecho de que esta guerra se pueda librar en un lugar específico y relativamente restringido se convierta en una posibilidad? Además, es necesario hacer un par de aclaraciones. Har-Maghedon, que significa "Monte de Meguido", no es una referencia específica a ese "tell" que se puede ver en el volumen 1 del libro "Perspicacia" (página 953 en la edición italiana). Lo que se ve en la fotografía es lo que queda del antiguo Megiddo, una pequeña colina construida sobre 26 capas de ruinas de ciudades antiguas. Eso es "Megiddo", pero ¿dónde está su montaña? Como no hay una montaña llamada "Monte de Meguido", tratamos de hacer suposiciones sin concluir prematuramente que todo el argumento es simbólico. Megiddo se encuentra a la entrada del paso a través de la cadena del Monte Carmelo, que domina el valle de Esdraelon desde el sudoeste. Así que el Monte de Meguido podría ser el Monte Carmelo (comparar 1 Reyes 18:19, 20, Jeremías 46:18, Amós 1: 2, 9: 3, Naum 1: 3, 4) y podría incluir todo el paisaje montañoso que rodea el valle de Meguido, a cien kilómetros al norte de Jerusalén, incluido el valle de Esdraelón. El espacio es notable, pero antes de asumir cualquier cálculo, tratamos de preguntarnos de acuerdo con la lógica o por qué los reyes de la tierra deberían / podrían estar allí. Para un juicio superficial parecería una cosa estúpida. Los reyes de la tierra y sus ejércitos no podrán pelear contra Cristo y sus elegidos (aunque tratarán de - comparar Apocalipsis 19:19, 20) y entonces es evidente que lo tomarán con su pueblo. Entonces, ¿por centrarse en una sola región del mundo (sea la que sea) para destruir o tentar de destruir el pueblo de Dios si està en toda la tierra habitada? La respuesta se puede encontrar en un artículo ya discutido en este blog. En el artículo titulado "Los tiempos fijos de las naciones" (http://attenzioneallaprofezia.blogspot.it/2017/08/i-tempi-fissati-delle-nazioni.html) hemos visto que la tierra elegida por Dios para su pueblo sigue siendo la Tierra Prometida y la reunión con Israel será literal. El artículo en parte decía: "Cuando las naciones se hayan quedado sin tiempo, incluyendo tanto el pisoteo de Jerusalén como la persecución, el Armagedón comenzará a destruir a esta bestia y a todos los pueblos compactos en la lucha contra el Cordero. En ese momento Jerusalén habrá sido liberada y el pueblo de Dios, después del período necesario pasado en las "habitaciones interiores", podrá ir a ese país que todavía es parte de la promesa y donde en poco tiempo comenzará a fluir leche y miel - Isaías 26: 20 " ¿Qué hemos visto hasta ahora? Hemos visto que Babilonia la Grande es el moderno Israel apóstata, pero esto tiene que ver con las personas que lo ocupan, ciertamente no con el área geográfica que, en sí misma, no puede tener mérito o culpabilidad - Zacarías 5: 6-8 Entonces, una vez que Israel sea liberado de Babilonia la Grande, Jehová traerá a su pueblo a la tierra que lleva su nombre y será habitado de generación en generación - Joel 3:20 Por lo tanto, la pregunta crucial es: esta reunión y la consiguiente éxodo hacia la tierra prometida comenzarán después del Armagedón o a su cerca? Algunas escrituras sugieren que esto sucede justo antes de la batalla final. ¿Cómo podemos decirlo? Hemos visto que durante la última guerra entre el rey del norte y el rey del sur, algunas naciones pueden escapar - ver Daniel 11:41 La escritura menciona a Edom, Moab y Ammón y, casualmente, estas son las mismas naciones en las que una parte del pueblo de Israel encontró refugio en el pasado - compare el Salmo 60: 8, 9; Isaías 16: 4; Jeremías 40:11 La conclusión lógica es que el pueblo de Dios que sobrevivió a la guerra, ya que tendrá que volver a vivir Israel ahora liberado por la Gran Ramera, está en las cercanías de la Tierra Prometida al menos un tiempo antes de la batalla final. Esta situación también sería similar a lo que sucedió en el pasado pero a una escala mucho más grande. Si la reunión tiene lugar antes del Armagedón, entonces es lógico y plausible que los "reyes de la tierra" se reúnan en el lugar que en hebreo se llama Har-Maghedon. Esto se hace para evitar que ellos llegan a la Tierra Prometida (y matarlos a todos al mismo tiempo - comparar el Salmo 2: 1-6) o simplemente para matarlos una vez que han sido alcanzados. Esta hipótesis hace razonable no solo la reunión literal de reyes y ejércitos, sino también el lugar específico de la reunión. Tratemos, por un momento, de leer Apocalipsis como si fuera la primera vez y como si no nos hubieran enseñado nada. La escritura dice "Y vi tres expresiones inspiradas+ inmundas* [que se parecían] a ranas+ salir de la boca del dragón+ y de la boca de la bestia salvaje+ y de la boca del falso profeta.*+ 14  Son, de hecho, expresiones inspiradas+ por* demonios, y ejecutan señales,+ y salen a los reyes+ de toda la tierra habitada,*+ para reunirlos a la guerra+ del gran día+ de Dios el Todopoderoso.+ ( ... ) Y los reunieron en el lugar* que en hebreo se llama Har–Magedón" – Revelaciòn 16:13, 14, 16 Sin hacer ninguna disquisición sobre qué términos y lo que significa, la primera imagen que viene a la mente son los reyes que se han juntado en algún lugar, ¿no es así? De hecho, la escritura dice que estas ranas "las reunieron", lo que hace pensar que estos reyes se dirigen hacia un lugar específico. Después de todo, nunca hemos hecho ninguna disquisición sobre la idea de que estas ranas realmente vayan a los reyes de la tierra; nunca hemos hipotetizado que su "llegar" a los reyes de la tierra fue simbólica porque es evidente que, si estos reyes viven en naciones diferentes y distantes, estas ranas tienen que ir o ir hacia ellos. Pero hemos reconsiderado que los reyes van a alguna parte. Así que las ranas van literalmente (deben alcanzar a estos reyes) mientras que los reyes van en un sentido simbólico. Es decir, no van a ninguna parte. Así que las ranas van literalmente (deben alcanzar a estos reyes) mientras que los reyes van en un sentido simbólico. Es decir, no van a ninguna parte. La pregunta sería espontáneamente a los que no sabía nada acerca de las cuestiones en juego sería ... "¿Por qué los reyes de la tierra, ante la proximidad de la guerra, se reúnen en un lugar llamado Armagedón (donde sea)?" En un escenario de guerra, la respuesta sería simple: porque el objeto de contención está en esa área o cerca de esa área. Cualquier nación que colocaría su ejército en las fronteras de otra nación enviaría un mensaje fuerte y claro. Él se está preparando para la guerra. En este caso, sin embargo, la pregunta no se refiere a la conquista del territorio de Israel, sino al exterminio de las personas que tienen la intención de vivir allí - Salmo 2: 1-4 Por último, hay que distinguir los reyes de la tierra con sus ejércitos. La escritura de Apocalipsis dice que solo los reyes de la tierra se reúnen en Har-Maghedon. ¿Cuántos serán los reyes de la tierra, siguiendo a sus ministros, sus funcionarios en diversas capacidades, sus guardaespaldas, etc.? ¿Algunos miles? ¿Algunas decenas de miles? ¿Es suficiente toda la zona montañosa de Carmel y el valle de Esdraelon para albergar a unas pocas decenas de miles de personas? Obviamente sí, incluso solo Carmel. ¿Dónde están y para qué aerolínea se extenderá en lugar ejércitos? No tenemos una respuesta precisa, pero podemos hacer un razonamiento basado en lo que sabemos de las Escrituras. Ya la simple distinción, que tal vez pocos han notado, entre los reyes de la tierra y sus ejércitos, debería descartar todas las hipótesis "de la imposibilidad del evento" porque si la Biblia no especifica el área de extensión de los ejércitos, podrían realmente ser cientos de millones e incluso miles de millones de personas. La batalla final se llevaría "alrededor del Monte de Megiddo" por un área indefinida (¿por qué no podrían cubrir toda Arabia Saudita, Sudán, Egipto, Siria e Irak, por ejemplo?) El pueblo de Dios todavía estaría rodeado, la escritura no fallaría y Jehová se elevaría sobre las naciones. Entonces, independientemente de todo el razonamiento que acabamos de hacer, si la Biblia no especifica el alcance de los ejércitos desplegados contra el pueblo de Dios, todo el discurso sobre la natura simbólica segura de la escritura decae o al menos no es tan razonable como inicialmente parecía. Sin embargo, trataremos de "construir" la extensión de este ejército solo sobre la base de lo que sabemos y manteniéndolo lo más pequeño posible para que toda la conversación adquiera peso y realmente sea la Biblia a hablar - Romanos 3: 4 Con respecto al último rey dominante descrito en los capítulos 11 y 12 de Daniel, sabemos que colocará sus tiendas "entre [el] gran mar* y la santa montaña de Decoración" - Daniel 11:45 Después de este evento, "tendrá que llegar a su fin, y no habrá un rescatador para él", y entonces se entiende que "lanzar las tiendas" es la última acción que realiza antes de su destrucción final. También hemos visto que la destrucción de Babilonia la Grande (o la nación de Israel) es el preludio de Armagedón y no a la gran tribulación. Como resultado, el ejército del último rey gobernante ya debería estar presente en el territorio de Israel antes de la batalla final * (ver pie de página). Simplemente tiene que esperar a que lleguen todos los demás (debe notarse, de hecho, que la escritura que exige la reunión de los reyes de la tierra en Har-Maghedon no menciona a la bestia salvaje, no se menciona porque él está entre los reyes o simplemente porque ya está allí?). Sin embargo, por el momento no sabemos si este inmenso ejército se mantendrá como un escudo para evitar que Israel entre o si esperará a que "la gente reunida de toda la tierra" realmente ingrese al país y luego lo rodee; véase, por ejemplo Joel 3: 9- 12; Nehemías 6:16; Salmo 44:13; 59: 5, 6; 76:11, 12; 97: 1-3; Jeremías 1: 14-16; 06:25; 25: 9; Lamentaciones 1:17 Por el momento podemos imaginar ambas situaciones ya que los conceptos no cambian. Entonces, para obstruir cualquier acceso a la gente que viene, los ejércitos deberán cubrir a Israel al menos en toda su extensión. ¿Te parece razonable? Entonces tenemos que hipotetizar una extensión que va desde el Gran Mar (el Mediterráneo) hasta el Monte de la Decoraciòn al oeste de Israel y una extensión al menos similar al lado este de Israel (en términos de ancho). Por lo tanto, una longitud al menos igual a la de Israel, si no más. ¿De qué área estamos hablando? Solo podemos hacer una estimación, pero un territorio equivalente al doble del actual Israel debería cubrir un área de 45 / 50,000 kilómetros cuadrados. Con esto en mente, supongamos ahora cuán poderoso podría ser este ejército. Un sitio hace una lista de los diez ejércitos más numerosos (actualizado a 2015). Esta es la lista con los números respectivos. CHINA (número de soldados 2.285.000). ESTADOS UNIDOS (1.458.000). INDIA (1.325.000) COREA DEL NORTE (1.106.000) RUSIA (1.027.000) TURQUÍA (666,500) COREA DEL SUR (639,000). PAKISTÁN (617,000) IRÁN (523,000). EGIPTO (468,000)  El total sería algo más de diez millones de personas. También consideramos que, como vimos al principio, la guerra entre los reyes del norte y los reyes del sur habrá reducido en gran medida los números y al menos una parte de las naciones enumeradas anteriormente puede que ya no existan. Sin embargo, para el beneficio de los números, se debe decir que, en caso de conflicto, los "efectivos" no serían los únicos que irían a la guerra. Los números podrían subestimarse en gran medida (es dudoso, de hecho, que los números oficiales correspondan a los reales). Por último, debemos tener en cuenta que este es el último movimiento de Satanás antes de ser arrojado al abismo por mil años que tiene un interés en hacer que los ejércitos sean más numerosos posible. Entonces multiplicamos por cinco estos números y suponemos que el ataque final incluye 50 millones de soldados armados hasta los dientes. ¿El área que estimamos podría contener cincuenta millones de personas? Sí, y bastante bien si consideramos que estas personas no están allí para vivir o quedarse, sino simplemente como soldados que esperan lanzar un ataque furioso. Cada soldado tendría una superficie habitable de aproximadamente un metro cuadrado. ¿Recuerdas las fotografías en las que Hitler tenía sus enormes tropas? En esas grandes reuniones, probablemente había tres o cuatro personas por metro cuadrado.   En las enormes reuniones de Hitler, probablemente había 3 o 4 personas por metro cuadrado  Es evidente que estamos haciendo suposiciones y las estimaciones, tanto del ejército como del área militarizada, podrían variar mucho, pero el punto que queremos ilustrar es simplemente uno. A pesar de las ideas que hemos hecho sobre la guerra de Har-Maghedon, y en la medida en que están enraizadas en nosotros, no podemos descartar que la batalla final tenga lugar en esta área geográfica y que será la batalla más grande en la historia de 'humanidad. De hecho, las escrituras mencionadas en apoyo del argumento sugieren que esto no es simplemente una posibilidad. Cada nueva comprensión, sin embargo, puede hacer que otras escrituras sean armoniosas o crear forzaduras. Las forzaduras debería ser un indicador de que "algo no va". ¿Qué sucede con las otras escrituras, entendiendo que el lugar de la batalla final será un lugar específico y relativamente restringido? Mientras tanto, como hemos mencionado, esta situación sería muy similar a varios episodios bíblicos que conocemos - véase, por ejemplo, Éxodo 14: 10-14; 2 Reyes 18: 19-25 Jehová sería exaltado en medio de las naciones precisamente porque, al no ser realmente todos destruidos, pueblos y naciones distantes hablarían de este evento con terror y por siglos: compare Josué 2: 9-11; Deuteronomio 2:25; Salmo 112: 10 Isaías 63: 1-6 describe a Jehová llegar de Edom que, como hemos visto, es uno de los lugares donde el pueblo de Dios encuentra refugio, y desde allí comienza a "pisotear pueblos en su ira". Salmo 2: 2 describe a todos los pueblos y grupos nacionales unidos "como un solo hombre" y esto da la idea de que los gobernantes de la tierra, y por lo tanto sus ejércitos, se reúnen efectivamente en algún lugar como un ejército, una sola masa compacta. Por último (pero no "por fin" porque se encuentran muchas otras similitudes si quiere buscar para ellos) de repente se convierte en claro por qué el rey del norte permanecerá perturbado a causa de las noticias del oriente y del norte - Ver Daniel 11:44 Hasta ahora, ¿qué nos han dicho? En otras palabras ... nos han dicho que no sabemos. En el libro "Presten atención a las profecías de Daniel" en la página 283 (edición italiana), hablamos de Gog of Magog (entre otras cosas en el entendimiento de que es Satanás el Diablo) y el párrafo 26 concluye con las palabras "Pero qué al final contendrán las noticias del este y del norte, solo Dios lo establecerá y el tiempo lo dirá". En cambio, entendiendo el escenario que se creará poco antes de la batalla final, podemos comprender por qué este rey está tan molesto. Él ve al pueblo de Dios, quien evidentemente creía haber eliminado, reunido y en camino a la Tierra Prometida. Representar la escena Es fácil imaginar que él entiende que hay Dios, el verdadero Dios y no las travesuras construidas por el falso profeta, detrás de todo esto. A pesar de su inmenso poder y su furia, no logró eliminar al pueblo de Dios que ahora está llegando a la Tierra Prometida en cumplimiento de la profecía bíblica. No es de extrañar que esto cause una gran ira en él y salga "con gran furia para aniquilar y votar a muchos a la destrucción", osea el pueblo de Dios reunido allí - Daniel 11:43 Y esto explica por qué "plantará sus tiendas palaciegas entre [el] gran mar* y la santa montaña de Decoración ". Tomemos un momento para imaginar la escena y vernos allí, con la intención de alcanzar la tierra prometida como lo fueron los israelitas en el tiempo de Moisés. Tal vez nos encontremos aprisionados entre el Gran Mar y el ejército o tal vez estemos a pocos kilómetros de la frontera y veamos "hombres de una estatura extraordinaria" - Números 13:33. Tal vez algunos de nosotros, al ver un ejército tan colosal, podamos dudar del poder de Jehová o su voluntad de protegernos - Isaías 43:10, 11 Trate de imaginar cuántas situaciones descritas en la Biblia se convertirían en el espejo de esos últimos momentos del sistema de cosas. No es difícil ver la armonía de la Palabra de Dios y comprender lo que sucederá si nos liberamos de nuestro condicionamiento y no asociamos la palabra "imposible" con Dios. ¿No es una perspectiva maravillosa? Un día, hacia el final de los acontecimientos terribles que ocurrirán en el suelo, alguien nos va a llamar para conducirnos a la tierra prometida, pero el viaje será reservado sólo para aquellos que entienderà n la profecía, y actuarà n en consecuencia. Siguiente parada: Israel. Toma el boleto. Reserve ahora. Las previsiones dicen que el área estará bastante abarrotada.  Notas a pie de página El artículo titulado "1290 y 1335 días" muestra una diferencia de 45 días entre pisotear al pueblo de Dios y lograr su "felicidad" - ver Daniel 12:12 Estos 45 días podrían incluir el momento de la reunión del pueblo de Dios y el consiguiente éxodo que los llevará a cruzar los límites de la Tierra Prometida. Es necesario especificar que incluso si la disminución de las aguas del Éufrates tiene que ver con la destrucción de estos pueblos y no simplemente con la pérdida de las defensas, esto podría referirse a los pueblos que rodean a Israel y no a Israel - comparar Joel 3 : 4 Esto podría significar que el pago de la sexta copa del ángel todavía no es la destrucción real de Babilonia la Grande y, por lo tanto, el pueblo de Israel aún puede estar vivo y activo cuando el pueblo de Dios se acerque a él para "repoblarlo". Por extraño que parezca, esto parece estar en armonía con Apocalipsis 16:19, que dice que Dios habría recordado a Babilonia "para darle la copa de vino del furor de su ira" y al leer el contexto, esto sucede durante o cerca de del juicio de armagedón - comparar Apocalipsis 16:13 Otras Biblias se traducen de manera similar y, por lo tanto, parece evidente que cuando las naciones se reúnen en Armagedón, Dios todavía tiene que derramar su ira sobre Babilonia la Grande. Si este entendimiento es correcto, cuando el rey del norte "saldrá con gran furia para aniquilar y votar a muchos a la destrucción" es posible que en su furia cegadora golpeará primero a la nación que siempre había sido su amante - comparar Apocalipsis 18. : 10, 15, 18 (ver también Zacarías 14:13, 14) Y, obviamente, esto sucederá por voluntad de Dios - Apocalipsis 17:17 Esta posibilidad hace muy probable la situación en la cual el pueblo de Dios está efectivamente bloqueado entre Israel (aún poblado) y todos los ejércitos del mundo.

In our path of study of the prophecies, as already seen in various previous articles, we will have come across something that we would not have believed possible. The understanding of Babylon the Great, as well as that concerning Armageddon, the Jerusalem above or the Heavenly Jerusalem, have indeed constituted great changes in the official understanding of Jehovah's Witnesses. We can not ignore the chain effects that these "changes of vision" have produced and continue to produce on many other more or less important doctrines. The author of this blog would like above all to clarify that all the theses presented so far have never been considered inspired or infallible and therefore each reader is invited to make their own evaluations (and maybe to contribute) by comparing and meditating on the Scriptures without any injury. At the same time, however, the author is equally convinced that the articles showed respect for the Bible and used it as a guide and supreme authority. Every affirmation, whenever it was possible, was accompanied or confirmed by one or more Scriptures and therefore, although certain arguments went against the official teaching, it was decided to do so in good conscience. The possible firm conviction of the author as well as certain categorical expressions used are exclusively due to this: the support of the Scriptures - John 17:17; 2 Timothy 3:16, 17; 2 Corinthians 10: 4, 5 The article that will be developed now, will also consist of a significant change of vision and we will see how, changing the conditions, real or possible scenarios become real that, until the day before yesterday, we would have considered really far-fetched - Job 42 :2; Mark 10:27 The wisest thing that each of us can do is to evaluate that every thesis presented is really in harmony with the Scripture, and nothing else, without closing up in shell or reshaping the power of God to what we think possible - Mark 12:24 ; Job 38: 4 What do we know, with certainty, of the battle of Armageddon?  What do we know about the Armageddon war? Speaking of the war of the great day of the Almighty God, what do we know for sure? - 1 Thessalonians 5:21 Well, we know that it is not total destruction due to a human war, a solar flare, a meteorite or other Hollywood nonsense - Isaiah 45:18; Psalm 78:69; Ecclesiastes 1: 4 We know it is the crucial war in which God takes revenge on his enemies and on the enemies of His people - Psalm 2: 3-6; Sofonia 1:18; Zechariah 2: 8 We also know that it is the occasion when Jehovah is magnified and makes himself known to the nations - Ezekiel 36:22, 23 It is the war that will free His people from oppression and slavery and will finally begin the Millennial Kingdom - Exodus 15: 11-13; Revelation 7:10 These are reliable informations. For the rest, when it will happen, what means it will use, which scenario will present itself just before the outbreak of this war, etc., only assumptions are made. One of these assumptions, which seems to have a strict logic, is that the place in Hebrew is called Har-Maghedon, is not a literal place but a situation. In practice it would be the situation in which all the enemies of God find themselves fighting against His People, wherever they are. This conclusion seems absolutely logical because how could a war of such proportions, which should encompass all of humanity and therefore billions of people, take place in such a small geographical area? It is absurd to even think about it. However, before closing our faculties of perception on any contrary subject we try to consider the following - James 1:19 First of all we have seen that the war between the king of the north and the king of the south, which is a prophecy to come, could greatly reduce the number of people present on earth including their armies - compare Revelation 6: 3, 7, 8 It's a raw topic we would not like to talk about but the prophecies seem clear. This topic has been dealt with in various previous articles, including the one entitled "Who is the horn that became very great?". Furthermore, as we saw in the article titled "Which nations disappear in Armageddon?" We know that the war of Armageddon will not destroy all nations and people on the planet. This war will indeed destroy the satanic system which includes the savage beast, the kings of the earth and their armies - 1 John 3: 8 Seen from this point of view, perhaps the fact that this war can be fought in a specific and relatively restricted place becomes a possibility? Furthermore it is necessary to make a couple of clarifications. Har-Magedon, which means "Mountain of Megiddo", is not a specific reference to that "tell" that you see in Volume 1 of the book "Insight" (page 953 in the edition in Italian). What you see in photography is what remains of ancient Megiddo, a small hill built on 26 layers of ruins of ancient cities. That is "Megiddo" but where's the mountain? Since there is no mountain called "Mount of Megiddo" we try to make assumptions without prematurely concluding that the whole argument is symbolic. Megiddo is located at the entrance of the pass through the chain of Mount Carmel, which overlooks the valley of Esdraelon from the south-west. So the Mount of Megiddo might be Mount Carmel (compare 1 Kings 18:19, 20, Jeremiah 46:18, Amos 1: 2; 9: 3; Naum 1: 3, 4) and could include all the hilly countryside that surrounds the valley of Megiddo, one hundred kilometers north of Jerusalem, including the valley of Esdraelon. Space is noticeable, but before assuming any calculation, we try to ask ourselves according to what logic or why the kings of the earth should / could be there. To a superficial judgment it would seem a stupid thing. The kings of the earth and their armies will not be able to fight against Christ and his elect (though they will try to - compare Revelation 19:19, 20) and so it is evident that they will take it upon His people. Why, then, to concentrate in one area of the earth (whatever it is) to try to destroy the people of God if it is found in all the inhabited earth? we have seen that the earth chosen by God for His people is still the Promised Land and the gathering of Israel will be literal. The article in part said, "When nations have run out of time, including both the trampling of Jerusalem and the persecution, Armageddon will begin to destroy this beast and all the compact peoples in the fight against the Lamb. At that moment Jerusalem will have been freed and the people of God, after the necessary period spent in the "inner rooms", will be able to go to that country which is still part of the promise and where in a short time it will begin to flow milk and honey - Isaiah 26: 20 " What have we seen so far? We have seen that Babylon the Great is modern apostate Israel but this has to do with the people who occupy it, certainly not with the geographical area which, in itself, can not have merit or guilt - Zechariah 5: 6-8 So, once Israel is liberated from Babylon the Great, Jehovah will bring His people back to that land that bears His name and will be inhabited from generation to generation - Joel 3:20 The crucial question is therefore: will this rallying and consequent exodus to the Promised Land begin after Armageddon or its approach? Some scriptures suggest that this happens just before the final battle. How can we say it? We have seen that during the last war between the king of the north and the king of the south, some nations are able to escape - see Daniel 11:41 The writing mentions Edom, Moab and Ammon and, coincidentally, these are the same nations in which a part of the people of Israel found shelter in the past - compare Psalm 60: 8, 9; Isaiah 16: 4; Jeremiah 40:11 The logical conclusion is that the people of God who survived the war, since they will have to live again Israel now liberated by the Great Whore, are in the vicinity of the Promised Land at least some time before the final battle. This situation would also be similar to what happened in the past but on a much larger scale. If the meeting takes place before Armageddon, then it becomes logical and plausible that the "kings of the earth" will gather in the place that in Hebrew is called Har-Maghedon. This is done to prevent the achievement of the Promised Land (and kill them all at once - compares Psalm 2: 1-6) or simply to kill them once they reach. This hypothesis makes reasonable not only the literal gathering of kings and armies but also the specific place of the gathering. Let's try, for a moment, to read Revelation as if it were the first time and as if they had not taught us anything. The writing says “And I saw three unclean inspired expressions* that looked like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon+ and out of the mouth of the wild beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14  They are, in fact, expressions inspired by demons and they perform signs,+ and they go out to the kings of the entire inhabited earth, to gather them together to the war+ of the great day of God the Almighty ( ... ) And they gathered them together to the place that is called in Hebrew Armageddon" – Revelation 16:13, 14, 16 Without doing any disquisition on what terms and what it means, the first image that would come to mind are the kings who are gathered together somewhere, is not it? In fact, the writing says that these frogs "gathered them", which makes one think that these kings are heading towards a specific place. After all we have never done any disquisitions on the idea that these frogs actually go to the kings of the earth; we have never hypothesized that their "going to" the kings of the earth was symbolic because it is evident that, if these kings live in different and distant nations, these frogs have to go or go towards them. But we have re-discussed that the kings go somewhere. So frogs go literally (they must reach these kings) while kings go in a symbolic sense. That is, they do not go anywhere. The question that would be spontaneous to those who did not know anything about the issues at stake would be ... "Why do the kings of the earth, at the approach of the war, go to the place called Har-Maghedon (whatever place it is)?" In a war scenario, the answer would become simple: because the object of contention is in that area or near that area. Any nation that would place its army on the borders of another nation would send a strong and clear message. He is preparing for the war. In this case, however, the question does not concern the conquest of the territory of Israel but the extermination of the people who intend to live there - Psalm 2: 1-4 Finally we must distinguish the kings of the earth from their armies. The writing of Revelation says that only the kings of the earth are gathered at Har-Maghedon. How many will be the kings of the earth, following their ministers, their officials in various capacities, their bodyguards, etc? A few thousand? A few tens of thousands? Is the entire hilly area of Carmel and the valley of Esdraelon itÂ’s sufficient to accommodate a few tens of thousands of people? Obviously yes, even only the Carmel. Where will the armies be and for which aircraft will they be extended? We do not have a precise answer but we can make some reasoning based on what we know from the scriptures. The simple distinction, which perhaps few have noticed, between the kings of the earth and their armies, should make every hypothesis fall "of the impossibility of the event" because if the Bible does not specify the area of armies extension they could really be hundreds of millions and even billions of people. The final battle would take place "around the Mount of Megiddo" for an indefinite area (why could not they cover all of Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Egypt, Syria and Iraq for example?) God's people would still be surrounded, the writing would not it would fail and Jehovah would rise above the nations. So, regardless of all the reasoning we have just made, if the Bible does not specify the extent of the armies deployed against the people of God, all the discourse on the secure symbolic nature of writing lapses or at least is not as reasonable as it initially seemed. We will try however to "build" the extension of this army only on the basis of what we know and keeping as close as possible so that all the talk will acquire heaviness and it is really the Bible to speak - Romans 3: 4 Regarding the last dominant king described in Daniel chapters 11 and 12 we know that he will place his tents "between the great sea and the holy Mount of the Adornment" - Daniel 11:45 After this event "he will have to come to his end, and there will not be a rescuer for him" and then it is understood that "pitching the tents" is the last action he performs before his final destruction. We have also seen that the destruction of Babylon the Great (or the nation of Israel) is the prelude to Armageddon and not to the great tribulation. As a result, the army of the last ruling king should already be present on the territory of Israel before the final battle * (see footnote). He simply has to wait for all the others to come (it is to be noted, in fact, that the writing which calls for the gathering of the kings of the earth at Har-Maghedon makes no mention of the wild beast. He is not mentioned because he is among the kings or simply because it is already there?). However, for the moment we do not know whether this immense army will stand as a shield to prevent Israel from entering or whether it will wait for "the people gathered from all the earth" to actually enter the country and then surround it - see for example Joel 3: 9- 12; Nehemiah 6:16; Psalm 44:13; 59: 5, 6; 76:11, 12; 97: 1-3; Jeremiah 1: 14-16; 6:25; 25: 9; Lamentations 1:17 For the moment we can imagine both situations since concepts do not change. So, to obstruct any access to the coming people, the armies will have to cover Israel at least for its entire length. Does this seem reasonable to you? So we have to hypothesize an extension that goes from the Great Sea (the Mediterranean) to the Mount of the Adornment west of Israel and an extension at least similar to the east side of Israel (in terms of width). So a length at least equal to that of Israel if not more. What area are we talking about? We can only make an estimate but a territory equal to twice the current Israel should cover an area of 45 / 50,000 square kilometers. With this in mind, let us now assume how powerful this army could be. A site makes a list of the ten most numerous armies (updated to 2015). This is the list with the respective numbers.  CHINA (number of staff: 2.285.000). UNITED STATES (1.458.000). INDIA (1.325.000) NORTH KOREA (1.106.000) RUSSIA (1.027.000) TURKEY (666,500) SOUTH KOREA (639,000). PAKISTAN (617,000) IRAN (523,000). EGYPT (468,000)  The total number of staff would be just over ten million people. We also consider that, as we saw at the beginning, the war between the kings of the north and the king of the south by then will have greatly reduced the numbers and at least a part of the nations listed above may not exist anymore. For the benefit of the numbers, however, it must be said that in case of conflict the "effective" would not be the only ones to go to war. The numbers could be greatly underestimated (it is doubtful, in fact, that the official numbers correspond to the real ones). Finally we must consider that this is the last move of Satan before being thrown into the abyss for a thousand years so he would have every interest in making the armies as numerous as possible. So we multiply by five these numbers and assume that the final attack includes 50 million armed soldiers to the teeth. The area we estimated could contain fifty million people? Yes and fairly well if we consider that these people are not there to live or stay but simply as soldiers waiting to launch a furious attack. Every soldier would have a living space of about one square meter. Do you remember the photographs in which Hitler had his huge troops? In those large gatherings there were probably three or four people every square meter.  In Hitler's huge gatherings there were probably 3 or 4 people per square meter  It is evident that we are making assumptions and the estimates, both of the army and of the militarized area, could vary a lot, but the point we want to illustrate is simply one. Despite the ideas that we made about the war of Har-Magedon, and how they are rooted in us, we can not exclude that the final battle takes place in this geographical area and that it will prove to be the biggest fight in the history of humanity. Indeed, the scriptures mentioned in support of the argument suggest that this is not simply a possibility. Any new understanding, however, can make other scriptures harmonious or create forcing. Forcing should be an indicator that "something is wrong". What happens with the other scriptures, understanding that the place of the final battle will be a specific and relatively restricted place? Meanwhile, as we have mentioned, this situation would be very similar to several biblical episodes we know - see for example Exodus 14: 10-14; 2 Kings 18: 19-25 Jehovah would be exalted in the midst of the nations precisely because, not being really all destroyed, the distant peoples and nations would speak of this event with terror and for centuries - compare Joshua 2: 9-11; Deuteronomy 2:25; Psalm 112: 10 Isaiah 63: 1-6 describes Jehovah coming from Edom who, as we have seen, is one of the places where God's people find refuge, and from there he begins to "tread peoples into His wrath." Psalm 2: 2 describes all the peoples and national groups united "as one man" and this gives the idea that the rulers of the earth, and therefore their armies, are effectively gathered somewhere as one army, a single mass and compact. Finally (but not "finally" because you will find many other similarities if you want to look for them) suddenly becomes clear why the king of the north is troubled because of news from the east and the north - see Daniel 11:44 So far what have we been told? In other words ... we have been told that we do not know. In the book "Pay attention to the prophecies of Daniel" on page 283 (Italian edition) we speak of Gog of Magog (among other things in the understanding that it is Satan the Devil) and paragraph 26 concludes with the words "But what at the end they will contain the news from the east and from the north only God will establish it and time will tell it ". Instead, understanding the scenario that will be created shortly before the final battle we can guess why this king is so upset. He sees the people of God, who evidently believed he had eliminated, gathered and on their way to the Promised Land! Depict the scene. It is easy to imagine that he understands that there is God, the True God and not the farce built by the false prophet behind all this. Despite his immense power and his fury, he has not succeeded in eliminating the people of God who are now reaching the Promised Land in fulfillment of Bible prophecy. It is not surprising that this causes great anger in him and comes out "with great fury to annihilate and to vote many to destruction", or the people of God gathered there - Daniel 11:43 And this explains why he "will pitch the tents of his palace between [the] great sea and the holy mount of the Adornment". Let's take a moment to imagine the scene and see us there, intent on reaching the promised land as the Israelites were in the time of Moses. Perhaps we may find ourselves imprisoned between the Great Sea and the army or we may be a few kilometers from the border and see "men of extraordinary stature" - Numbers 13:33 Perhaps some of us, seeing such a colossal army, might doubt Jehovah's power or his will to protect us - Isaiah 43:10, 11 Try to imagine how many situations described in the Bible would become the mirror of those last moments of the system of things. It is not difficult to see the harmony of the Word of God and to understand what will happen if we free ourselves from our conditioning and do not associate the word "impossible" with God. Is not it a wonderful prospect? One day, towards the end of the terrifying events that will occur on earth, someone will call us to lead us to the Promised Land, but the journey will be reserved only for those who will understand the prophecy and act accordingly. Next stop: Israel. Take the ticket. Make reservations now. The forecasts say that the area will be quite crowded.   Footnote. The article entitled "1290 and 1335 days" shows a difference of 45 days between trampling on God's people and achieving his "happiness" - see Daniel 12:12 These 45 days could include the time of the gathering of the people of God and the consequent exodus that will lead them to cross the boundaries of the Promised Land.  It is necessary to specify that even if the lowering of the waters of the Euphrates has to do with the destruction of these peoples and not simply with the loss of the defenses, this could refer to the peoples that surround Israel and not with Israel - compare Joel 3 : 4 This could mean that the payment of the sixth cup of the angel is not yet the actual destruction of Babylon the Great and therefore the people of Israel might still be alive and active when God's people approach it to "repopulate". As strange as this may seem, this seems to be in harmony with Revelation 16:19 which says that God would have remembered Babylon "to give it the cup of wine of the fury of his wrath" and by reading the context this happens during or near of the judgment of armageddon - compare Revelation 16:13 Other Bibles translate in a similar way and therefore it would seem evident that when nations gather in Armageddon, God still has to pour his wrath upon Babylon the Great. If this understanding is correct, when the king of the north "will come out with great fury to annihilate and vote many to destruction" it is possible that in his blinding fury he will strike first the nation that had always been their lover - compare Revelation 18 : 10, 15, 18 (see also Zechariah 14:13, 14) And obviously this will happen by God's will - Revelation 17:17 This possibility makes very probable the situation in which the people of God are effectively blocked between Israel (still populated) and all the armies of the world. Â

Everyone can say what he wants. However, the order of events is well described in Revelation. At the end of Armageddon Satan is bound and thrown into the abyss - Revelation 20: 1-3 The first resurrection is completed - Revelation 20: 4-6 At the end of a thousand years, Satan is dissolved to divert the nations to the four corners of the earth and finally thrown into the lake of fire - Revelation 20: 7-10 Then the resurrection of the dead takes place - Revelation 20: 11-15 It is not difficult to understand the order of events if we read the text without preconceptions. There is no mention of "real life" or "fake life". the resurrection takes place at the end of the millennium. Obviously someone will say that Revelation "is not written in chronological order" but this is not logical. In Revelation one speaks of the seven seals of the scroll that the Lamb opens. The seals are in chronological order. So we talk about the seven trumpets and also these are in chronological order The "governing body" says that they are not in chronological order In fact, the seventh trumpet would be played in 1914 while the sixth in 1922 or so (now I do not remember precisely). Meanwhile, the meaning of sixth and seventh is not logical. "Sixth" does not only indicate the number of the trumpet but also that it sounds after the fifth and before the seventh. I have compared other translations and all give the same meaning. Moreover, it is a scriptural problem because the apostle Paul, speaking precisely of this trumpet (that is, the one concerning the resurrection of the dead) he defines it "the last trumpet" - 1 Corinthians 15:52 (compare with Revelation 11: 15; 12: 1). So if the seventh trumpet played in 1914, and it is the last one, this means that the other trumpets must have played previously. Instead, if we simply read what is written, the trumpets are sequential (regardless of the start date you want to give) and eventually the "cups of the wrath of God" are sequential. So the question is: if the seals, the trumpets and the cups are sequential (and we come up to chapter 16 of Revelation) with what logic can we say that the rest of the book is not in chronological order? Thus, if we read the order of the events of Revelation of chapter 19, we understand exactly that "the rest of the dead did not come to life until (ie: until the moment in which") the thousand years are finished ". Now start with the controversy as well. For me, the Bible, it is the only authority.

Everything we read about the "70-Week" prophecy reported in the book "Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy!" (Chapter 11) is worthy of attention and demonstrates how accurate and reliable the word of God is even when pronouncing prophecies very distant in time. The historical accuracy and the numerous Scriptural references that gave weight and authority to the whole speech were also evident. Anyone who approaches the Word of God without preconceptions can not but be struck by this demonstration of power and wisdom on the part of God. The explanation of the 70 weeks is unexceptionable but can be said to be the same as other prophecies? What about those calculations on which many of us have based the hopes of a lifetime and that clashed with the criticism of the majority? We are talking about 1914. Is this also a prophecy of Daniel? Was this also treated with the same marvelous accuracy of the seventy weeks we have just read? Although it may not be easy, we try to be truly objective because understanding or not understanding the prophecy, like the rest of God's Word, can make much difference to our eternal future - John 17: 3; 2 Thessalonians 1: 8 WHAT DID OF 1914?  The book "Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy" on pages 85 to 97 explains in detail the dream of Nebuchadnezzar and the 7-time prophecy asserting that it indicates the coming of the Kingdom of God in 1914. It would therefore be profitable to take the book and compare it with what will be read below. Does Nebuchadnezzar's dream really prophesy the coming of the Kingdom of God in 1914?  THAT'S IT? Let's try to examine what is written in the book without prejudices. At a first reading it seems that Jehovah God wanted to give a lesson of humility to Nebuchadnezzar, which happened. The "seven times", at least for him, were seven years and this is confirmed by the whole story. Reading all this without preconceptions, it does not seem that we should look for other explanations more or less hidden. However, let us take the thesis that "the tree indicates a dominion and a sovereignty much greater than those of the king of Babylon. It symbolizes the universal sovereignty of Jehovah, the King of the heavens, especially with respect to the earth ". This means, first of all, that the Kingdom of God is comparing, in a certain way, to the kingdom of Babylon and this strides with many biblical passages describing Babylon as the greatest enemy of God's people. It also means that the "vigilante" (ie an angel of Jehovah) decides to overthrow the Kingdom of God and this is, to say the least, strange. Some will object that we must not look for similarities in every aspect of the prophecy but also decide which part of the prophecy must have a second fulfillment and which one could be arbitrary enough. After all, we have no other scriptural references to show us which details to focus on and which to leave out. So it is being said that the prophecy of the tree applies entirely to Nebuchadnezzar while only a small part would apply to the Kingdom of God. For the prophecy of the "seventy weeks" we did not need to break the prophecy to try to understand who was applied or if it applied to more than one person because the subject was clear and recognizable from the beginning. On the contrary, all the 7-day prophecy is built on a single verse that is what it says ... "The tree grew and became strong, and its same height finally reached the heavens and was visible to the end of the whole earth" (Daniel 4:11). Meanwhile, the writing says that the tree "becomes visible" to the end of the earth and not that "embraces the end of the earth" and the meaning is very different. The aforementioned book says: "the great tree represents the 'domain that reaches the end of the earth', which embraces the whole realm of mankind. Thus it symbolizes the universal sovereignty of Jehovah, particularly in relation to the earth. - Daniel 4:17 ". "Reaching the end of the earth" means that it extends the domain to the end of the earth while "being visible to the end of the earth" means that it is known, famous. AnyhowÂ… is not it a bit fragile, let's say risky, to build a series of prophecies (all linked together) on this single explanation? Note that the specification "particularly in relation to the earth" is due to the fact that the universal sovereignty of Jehovah is, indeed, universal, for which the tree should have been seen not only in the whole earth but throughout the universe. By specifying, instead, "in relation to the earth", we can exclude the skies from the vision and take the application for good. Anyway, we should ask a question. Is the fact that the tree reaches the heavens or the end of the earth itÂ’s a demonstration or even an indication of the fact that we are talking about the Kingdom of God? We always leave the Bible to enlighten us. Notice what Jehovah told Ezekiel in reference to the Pharaoh. Ezekiel 31: 1-8 says Â… “In the 11th year, in the third month, on the first day of the month, the word of Jehovah again came to me, saying: 2  “Son of man, say to Phar?aoh king of Egypt and to his hordes,+‘Whom are you like in your greatness?  3  There was an As·syr?i·an, a cedar in Leb?a·non,With beautiful branches like a shady thicket, lofty in stature;Its top was among the clouds.  4  The waters made it grow big, the deep springs of water caused it to grow high. Streams were all around where it was planted;Their channels watered all the trees of the field.  5  That is why it grew taller than all the other trees of the field. Its boughs multiplied, and its branches grew longBecause of the abundant water in its streams.  6  All the birds of the sky nested in its boughs,All the wild animals of the field gave birth under its branches,And all the populous nations were dwelling in its shade.  7  It became majestic in beauty and in the length of its branches,For its roots went down into abundant waters.  8  No other cedars in the garden of God+ could compare to it. None of the juniper trees had boughs like it,And none of the plane trees could match its branches. No other tree in the garden of God could rival its beauty”. Do we note some similarities with the vision of Nebuchadnezzar? Both are compared to tall and mighty trees. Both reach high heights, up to the sky in fact the expressions "reach the heavens" or "reach the clouds" are equivalent - Compare Job 22:14; Isaiah 14:14; Daniel 7:13 Of both we notice the big difference with the other trees. Of both it is said that all the flying creatures and all the wild beasts find food and shelter. Now if we apply the principle that the tree that "reaches the clouds" must represent the Kingdom of God, then even the Egyptian empire should be an antitype of the Kingdom. Unfortunately, however, in this story there is no mention of the "times" and consequently it is not possible to count anything. If you think it's ridiculous that the Egyptian empire will represent the Kingdom of God, why should it be acceptable to the Babylonian empire? Jehovah goes on to say ““Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: ‘Because it* became so tall, lifting its top among the clouds, and its heart became arrogant because of its height, 11  I will hand it over to the mighty ruler of the nations.+ He will surely act against it, and I will reject it for its wickedness”. The Pharaoh was exalted, just as Nebuchadnezzar did, and for this reason God decided to humiliate him - Matthew 23:12 Nebuchadnezzar escaped with seven years of madness while Pharaoh's empire was besieged. Also this verse remarks the fact that God takes away and gives "the kingdom to whom he wills" (and in this case He gave the kingdom of Pharaoh to the "despot of nations"). Ezekiel 31: 12-14 continues Â… “And foreigners, the most ruthless of the nations, will cut it down, and they will abandon it on the mountains, and its foliage will fall in all the valleys, and its branches will lie broken in all the streams of the land.+ All the peoples of the earth will depart from its shade and abandon it. 13  All the birds of the sky will live on its fallen trunk, and all the wild animals of the field on its branches.+ 14  This is so that no tree near the waters should grow so tall or lift up its top among the clouds and that no well-watered tree may reach up to them in height. For they will all be given over to death, to the land down below, along with the sons of mankind, who are going down into the pit.Â’. Even this tree is cut down and humiliated (Jehovah will do this through the king of Babylon). Because of the many similarities with the kingdom of Egypt, are we really certain that the tree that "reached the heavens" refers to the Kingdom of God?  When we talk about 1914, are we really like the Bereans? Or are we "Bereans" only when we have to refute the doctrines of Christianity?  There is another interesting detail that should make us reflect. The Bible compares the heavens to governments, be they human or celestial. Applying this concept to the tree that reaches the heavens and whose other trees do not stand comparison with it, it would simply mean that this tree has the kingdom over the other (smaller) kingdoms and of Babylon the Great is said to have " the kingdom over the kings of the earth "- Revelation 17:18 The only legitimate parallel that you can do with Babylon, without fear of taking corners, is related to Babylon the Great because it is the parallelism that makes the Bible. Indeed, all the world empires mentioned in the Scriptures had, for a time, the kingdom over the other kingdoms. Cyrus, in fact, said of himself ... "I am Cyrus, king of the world, great king, legitimate king, king of Babylon, king of Sumer and Akkad, king of the four extremities (of the earth), son of Cambyses (Ka-am -bu-zi-ia), great king, king of Anzan, nephew of Cyrus ,. . . descendant of Teispe,. . . of a family (that) has always reigned ". (Ancient Near Eastern Texts, edited by J. B. Pritchard, 1974, p.37). Undoubtedly humility was not a characteristic appreciated by the Persians as well as by the Babylonians but in fact the kingdom had power over the other known kingdoms (so to be called "king of the four ends of the earth") and so it could be said that its height had reached the heavens and was visible or known to the ends of the earth. In the story of Ezekiel and in that of Daniel there is no reference, just anyone, to the Kingdom of God, on the contrary ... both accounts mention a judgment from God on enemy nations, proud and violent. Any chronological calculation should respect the subject in being and in fact this part of the Scripture is very different from what is said about the "seventy weeks" - Daniel 9: 24-27 In the account of Daniel chapter 9, one speaks clearly of the Messiah (see Daniel 9:25) and it is not necessary to read what is not written. Anyone who wanted to be polemical could discuss the start date from which to count the "weeks" or even the adduct method * (one day for a year) but certainly we can not discuss the subject in existence (the Messiah). It could also be absurd to discuss who the Messiah really was (which Jews are still discussing) but certainly we can not argue that Daniel chapter 9 speaks of the arrival of the Messiah! Instead, Daniel chapter 4 speaks of Nebuchadnezzar and his kingdom, while all the "understanding" concerning the Kingdom of God is built on four lines in the book "Pay attention to Daniel's prophecies!" That read: "But the great tree represents the domain that reaches the end of the earth, which embraces the entire kingdom of mankind. Thus it symbolizes the universal sovereignty of Jehovah, particularly in relation to the earth. - Daniel 4:17 "(chapter 6, page 87 of the Italian edition of the book). Does not this seem like a very firm statement with a very weak base? Let us try not to tell Daniel 4:17 what he does not really say because it is enough to know the basic rules of grammar so as not to be distracted by the subject. The subject is Nebuchadnezzar and God makes him understand that, because of the fact that he is exalted, he would have taken away his kingdom and given it to whoever He had wanted (exactly as He did to Pharaoh). In practice the one who really rules is the Creator and the other kingdoms exist only because He allows it - Compare Romans 13: 1 So there is no reason to believe that the tree (that is, one of the many governments that Jehovah has permitted in the history of mankind), actually represents the Kingdom of God. If someone wants to imply that the fact that God mentions His dominion is indicative that the tree itself represents His dominion (and is an incredible semantic acrobatics) then we can take the story reported in 2 Kings 19: 14-19 and do it same reasoning. “Hez·e·ki?ah took the letters out of the hand of the messengers and read them. Hez·e·ki?ah then went up to the house of Jehovah and spread them* out before Jehovah.+ 15  And Hez·e·ki?ah began to pray+ before Jehovah and say: “O Jehovah the God of Israel, sitting enthroned above* the cherubs,+ you alone are the true God of all the kingdoms of the earth.+ You made the heavens and the earth. 16  Incline your ear, O Jehovah, and hear!+ Open your eyes,+ O Jehovah, and see! Hear the words that Sen·nach?er·ib has sent to taunt the living God. 17  It is a fact, O Jehovah, that the kings of As·syr?i·a have devastated the nations and their lands.+ 18  And they have thrown their gods into the fire, because they were not gods+ but the work of human hands,+ wood and stone. That is why they could destroy them. 19  But now, O Jehovah our God, please save us out of his hand, so that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that you alone are God, O Jehovah.” Hezekiah knew very well that Jehovah was "the true God of all the kingdoms of the earth" and he prayed that Sennacherib would be stopped in his intent to destroy Jerusalem. We know very well what was the answer of Isaiah which last part reads Â… “Because your rage against me+ and your roaring have reached my ears.+ So I will put my hook in your nose and my bridle+ between your lips,And I will lead you back the way you came.” - 2 Kings 19:28 If we did the same reasoning as for chapter 4 of Daniel, then we might suppose that the "reign of Sennacherib" was also an antitype of the kingdom of God because he too had to learn (at his own expense) that Jehovah is "the true God of all. the kingdoms of the earth "or, in other words, "dominates over all mankind ". Unfortunately, even in this story there are no numbers, days, weeks or months to be calculated and therefore no reason to read "the coming of the kingdom of God" even where no mention is made of it. Is it possible that the strong desire to see the prophecies fulfill has influenced the intention and therefore pushed to read what was not actually written? This means that if you really want to see a second fulfillment of the story reported in Daniel chapter 4, you should respect the subject in being and that is Babylon. It is likely that the story of Daniel is simply telling the humiliation of Nebuchadnezzar and that the "seven times" mean only seven years but we can not be categorical. In this regard it is useful to reflect on the fact that even the humiliation of the Pharaoh, reported in Ezekiel, could have a second fulfillment as Jehovah says that he will "shake the nations" and this could be a reference to the Armageddon war.  So, without fixing ourselves too much with a specific date, in case the story of Daniel wanted to show us a second fulfillment of the prophecy, the report is actually saying: "Babylon will fall, will remain inactive for seven times and then rise again". This can only bring our mind back to the last mention that the Bible makes of Babylon - Revelation 17:5 The clues about Babylon the Great brought us to the nation of Israel so the question we should ask ourselves is ... "From what year we should start counting the 2520 years (ie 360 * 7) until we see the rebirth (if any) of Babylon? " From the story of Daniel the possible dates from which to count the seven times are two: 1) Since Nebuchadnezzar has had the vision or has fallen into "misfortune" (in fact, Daniel says "the tree is you" - Daniel 4: 20-22) 2) From the death of Nebuchadnezzar (if Nebuchadnezzar represents the kingdom of Babylon, his death is the moment when the tree is "knocked down" but it is to be noted that there is no reference to this in the narration of Daniel who, indeed, he says that the kingdom would be assured - Daniel 4:26) As far as the first hypothesis is concerned, it is impossible to have an accurate date because neither the Bible nor the secular history tells us in which year Nebuchadnezzar was expelled from his kingdom. This happened, obviously, after 597 a.E.V. (year in which Nebuchadnezzar brings the first Jewish prisoners to Babylon according to the secular date, there is a difference of 20 years with that of the slave who, in fact, puts 617 a.E.V.) and within 570 a.E.V. (if Nebuchadnezzar dies in 562 BCE - always according to the secular date - and the period of "captivity" lasts 7 years and the kingdom is returned to him presumed to have reigned for at least a year, 570 is the last useful year) . However in the first four chapters of Daniel we mention Daniel, Sadrac, Mesac and Abednego first as children (Daniel 1: 3, 4) and later as robust men (Daniel 3:12, 27) and all this before Nebuchadnezzar has the famous dream tree. This means that, from their deportation until the day when the king erected the image of gold, at least 15, 20 years passed. So if the Jews came to Babylon in 597 a.E.V. but they pass 20 years before the construction of the golden idol and having taken for good the secular date (562 a.E.V) it is possible to restrict the period from 577 a.E.V. up to 570 a.E.V. Obviously they are only estimates but the important date is the maximum time limit (570 a.E.V) so if from the deportation until the construction of the image had passed 15 years instead of 20, the starting date would be 582 a.E.V. but the last possible useful date would always be 570 a.E.V. The eventual rebirth of Babylon, if Daniel is talking about this, would have happened between 1943 E.V. (2520-577) and 1950 E.V. (2520-570). To reinforce this hypothesis there would also be the fact that the narration of his expulsion is the last story reported to Nebuchadnezzar. Few verses later, in fact, we no longer speak of him but of Baldassarre (Daniel chapter 5). It is reasonable to conclude, therefore, that Nebuchadnezzar had the vision in the last years, perhaps during the last decade of his reign.  The second hypothesis concerns the death of Nebuchadnezzar, which takes place, according to the secular sources, in 562 a.E.V. According to the slave, in 582 a.E.V. (see the book "Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy" chapter 7, page 99). Counting 2520 years we arrive at 1958 E.V. in the first case and to 1938 E.V. in the second case.  "Babylon will fall, remain inactive for seven times and then rise again"  What does recent history tell us? If, as we have seen, Babylon the Great is the nation of Israel, this would corroborate the first hypothesis. The first hypothesis places the rebirth of Babylon between 1943 and 1950. Indeed, the "resurrection" of Israel took place in May 1948.  Knowing the fixation of human beings for dates and calculations, however, it is prudent to pay attention to the most important things. The secular dates can not be secure, based on findings and comparisons more or less incomplete, and certainly we can not base our faith on this - 2 Corinthians 5: 7 What would happen if the 597 a.E.V., as well as 607 or 537 or any other date on which we based much of the biblical prophecies (without there being a real reason for doing so) tomorrow proved to be completely wrong? The consequences could be very serious and not just from a human point of view - Amos 3: 1, 2 We must not take Jehovah's mercy for granted, so we must be cautious in our statements. Since we have no certainty that the "seven times" do not simply represent seven years, we should not lose ourselves in these speculations. Is not the most important thing to understand the identity of Babylon the Great? Those who have truly studied the Bible without preconceptions have understood that Babylon the Great is indeed Israel and this has understood it regardless of dates and calculations. This is a crucial aspect of prophecy because it is the clues that guide us in the subjects and times in which we are living, such as road signs, and not the calculations - Compare Matthew 24:32, 33 and 2 Timothy 3: 1-5 and do a contrast with Matthew 24:36 There is no temporal indication for the killing of the two clothed witnesses (see Revelation chapter 11) but we know that they are revealed at the end of the war. We know that the city called "Sodom and Egypt" is Babylon the Great, hence Israel, and as a result we also know which nation and events to watch carefully. That the Bible actually prophesises the year of his "resurrection" or not, is certainly interesting but not fundamental for those who believe that it is indeed the inspired Word of God. Fundamental, if anything, will be "get out of it" when the UN prepares to destroy it.  * However the Bible confirms the "one day for a year" method and also that this was the same method used by God's people - Ezekiel 4: 6; Luke 3:15 ** The Bible allows us to be "fully competent" then all the speeches made on 607 a.E.V. pro and contra, they are absolutely useless. Nebuchadnezzar's dream, as we have seen, has nothing to do with the Kingdom of God  Â

dicembre 28, 2017 And they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations;+ and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations* until the appointed times of the nations* are fulfilled – Luke 21:24  What are "the appointed times of the nations"?  The "appointed times of the nations" are another topic that many Jehovah's Witnesses are struggling to be self-critical because of the connections induced more or less in relation to the "seven times" of Daniel chapter 4. In the rare cases in which they had a chance to re-examine the application of Nebuchadnezzar's dream, you would probably have an answer like ... "Jesus also spoke of the appointed times of the nations!" The "inherent logic" would be ... "As Jesus mentioned the appointed times of the nations, the interpretation of the seven times of Daniel chapter four is correct." Is this a reasonable statement? Before answering this question let's start immediately with the skim any objections on the translation. Is it correct to translate "appointed times", as does the New World Translation, or should have been translated simply "time" as the majority of the other translations? The author of this article is not an expert in Greek or Hebrew but we will see how the Bible, by itself, can effectively answer this question. We can do a search and see how the book Insight, for example, explains that "kairos greek noun (pl. Kairoi) ... according to a dictionary," means a fixed or defined period of time, a season, sometimes a time necessary or appropriate to the season "(Insight volume 1," set times of the nations ") and all this can also be shared as it is possible that other dictionaries give different meanings with as many logical and convincing explanations. Who is right? This is the problem with human wisdom: everything is almost always the opposite of everything and it is not the majority that establishes what is true and what is not. Obviously conscientious research of experts deserve respect and a "truth" conquered by effort and discipline is certainly more appreciable than a "truth" simply taken or prepared by others. We Christians, however, have something more than human wisdom. We have the Word of God and if something "is not clear" it simply depends on the fact that the time has not arrived or we have not studied or pondered enough on this extraordinary Work. That the more correct translation is "times" or "appointed times" has absolutely no importance because it is obvious that the time is fixed or predetermined. The nations, as we know them today, are rulers of Satan and demons - see John 12:31; Daniel 10:20 To think that the time given to Satan to act is not fixed, that is, predetermined, would mean that he could act undisturbed for as long as he wanted. It is absolutely logical that if Satan challenged God's right to govern humanity as well as the fidelity of human beings themselves, God gave him time to prove his accusation. Otherwise Satan could say, and continue to say indefinitely "Give me more time ...". In fact, it is what he will try to do, until the last moment, with his last nationalistic beast - Compare Daniel 7:25 The context of Luke 21:24 speaks of the destruction of Jerusalem and says that it will be "trampled by the nations until the times of the nations are accomplished" and even the term "accomplished" means that there was something predetermined. The same term, "accomplished", is used by the Lord at the time of his death reported in John 19:30. What was accomplished? They had fulfilled all the prophecies concerning Himself and His death accomplished, or fully accomplished, his assignment - Matthew 20:28 All this had been foreseen many years before and indeed the reflective and scholarly people of the Jewish scriptures could have recognized who the true Messiah was because of this. In the same way, the "times of the nations" are fulfilled when they exhaust their time which is evidently determined If the purists of the ancient greek is more properly translated "times" or "appointed times," we let them argue. We are interested in the biblical message. Of course the real "issue" that many would like to pull out after this diatribe is to try to understand whether translating "appointed times" we have wanted, somehow, to create a link with Daniel chapter four. In practice, one wonders if the translation want to tell Jesus what he does not say that is ... "Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times described in Daniel chapter 4 are fulfilled." Even in this case we can say that the question is futile because it is always in the Bible that we must look for the answer. If the Bible had actually explained that the seven times of the tree referred to the time given to nations to act before the coming of the Kingdom of God, then we could also discuss whether in Luke chapter 21 Jesus made a parallel with those scriptures or not, but since Daniel chapter four absolutely not talk about this, the matter dies at birth. What Jesus said, "times" or "appointed times," he could not, however, refer to Daniel chapter four. It is possible to find a detailed description of this subject at the following link http://attenzioneallaprofezia.blogspot.it/2017/05/lacronologia-linterpretazione-la.html (for now, only in italian language) These were the premises due. Now let's try to see what the Lord meant and when and how his words are fulfilled. In the meantime, it is correct to conclude that Jesus' words are not limited to the time of the destruction of Jerusalem because the nations, after the 70th E.V., continued to act arriving in our day. Therefore, their time has not yet been completed. Therefore we must understand the two subjects involved in this statement: Jerusalem and the nations. For the first subject we have a problem. Who is "Jerusalem"? And 'the literal city, which not surprisingly there again in the end time, or is it God's people as a whole? Many would say "it is the people of God" but the answer is not so obvious and for various reasons. One of these is that when Jerusalem was trodden down until you get to the destruction presumably there were no Christians. So the destruction of Jerusalem not only fell upon a literal city, but did not involve Christians at all (if we take for granted that they listened to the warnings given by Christ over thirty years before) - Luke 21:20, 21 On the other hand, if it were the literal Jerusalem we should ask ourselves why today, a city that should have nothing more "sacred" would have such importance in the words of Jesus. Well, the answer may surprise us. The appointed times of the nations end up at the beginning of Armageddon because that is the time you will be destroyed. Only then will they have exhausted their time. If we read Revelation, in fact, we notice that there is a temporal difference from when Jesus takes power to when, actually, begins His war - Compare Revelation 11:15 and Revelation 19:19, 20 When Jesus takes power, the nations have not yet run out of time to act and this is clearly seen from everything that happens from chapter 13 onwards. This makes us understand that it is wrong to associate the term of the "appointed time of nations" in the presence of Christ. As we saw in a previous article, since Jesus took power until the beginning of Armageddon, three and a half years have to pass (see the article titled "1290 and 1335 days") - see Revelation 11: 2; 13: 1-5 This is also in harmony with the words of Daniel who speaks of this "king" who will try to change the times and the law but they "will be given to them for a time, and times and half a time" - Daniele 7:25 In practice it will only have forty-two months, really a short time to act - see also Revelation 12:12 If the appointed times of the nations ending at Armageddon and not the presence of Christ, then we must take the book Revelation and see what the actors involved and what happens in the vicinity of Armageddon. We know that it is God's people who are trampled savagely until the last moment of the Satanic system. This is accomplished through the last dominant empire, described as one of the heads slaughtered to death that lives, which blasphemes God, His Name, His abode and those who dwell in heaven and makes war against the saints and overcomes them - Revelation 13 : 3-7 At the end of these forty-two months granted to the beast, time ends and begins Armageddon - Revelation 19:19, 20 Did Jesus refer to this event when he said that Jerusalem would be trampled on by the nations "until the appointed times of the nations were fulfilled"? No, and we understand why if we also identify the other possible subject involved in the matter. We have said that speaking of Jerusalem we could refer to the literal city. What other subject and what event, in Revelation, preludes the beginning of Armageddon? If we only read what is written in chronological order, the answer should be taken for granted: the destruction of Babylon the Great. In various previous articles we have re-discussed the identity of Babylon the Great by coming to the nation of Israel (which includes Jerusalem, of course). If you have not already done so, you can find a detailed description in the following link http://bewareofprophecy.blogspot.it/2017/12/who-is-really-babylon-great.html  If Babylon the Great is therefore Israel, in what sense has been trampled by the nations since 70 E.V. until now? As we saw in the article dedicated to Babylon, Israel is reborn not by God's will but because of the political intrasps of the nations. Although its "rebirth" has been accepted by the religions of the world as the return of true Israel, it is a mystification. The founders of this new Israel have not given honor to God (many of them are not even believers), they no longer appreciate the God of the Bible but have replaced it with their traditions (compare Matthew 15: 6). They sought refuge and protection in the nations of this world. Only the geographical territory of ancient Israel has remained, but the people who make up this nation actually form a modern Babylon. Furthermore, the "founding" nations and the United Nations as a whole continue to trample this nation with their military settlements * (see footnote). We can therefore say that the literal city of Jerusalem, as well as all of Israel, is currently being trampled by the nations of the world. Until it will be trampled? Until its destruction, of course - Revelation 17:16 It is true that this destructive action is carried out by the United Nations itself (ie part of the occupiers) but let us remember that this event, after the period of crying and mourning of the hypocrites rulers of the world, will mark the beginning of Armageddon. From that moment onwards no one will be able to step on Jerusalem. At this point it is clear that we must stop for a moment. If Israel is Babylon the Great, it is clear that it should have no positive meaning in its description (in the end Babylon has always been the greatest enemy of God's people) yet Jesus, in the basic writing of this article, mentions this event as if was the liberation of Jerusalem. It is as if he were saying ... "Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until a certain point ... but then, finally, it will no longer be trampled on!". It becomes easy to understand this expression if we understand that the nation chosen by God for His people still has its importance. A nation, understood as geographic territory, has no merit or guilt. So it is not the geographical territory that is condemned but the people that populate this territory. The nation of Israel has been rejected as a people, because of their condition of heart, but the country where "milk and honey" flows is still the country chosen by Jehovah God for His people - Exodus 3: 8 The mountain of the Adornment is still the mountain of the Adornment, even in the time of the end, because chosen by God - Compare Daniel 11:45 The people who occupy that territory are no longer God's people (and therefore since they have denied it they have become abusive occupants) but the territory chosen by God has nevertheless been chosen by God. We should think that from the moment when the territory chosen by God was then usurped by another people, God will destroy that people and also the territory in a definitive way? The destruction of Babylon is final in the sense that there will never be more people with such characteristics to occupy the field of saints - Compare Revelation 19: 3 with Ezekiel 38:17, 18 Obviously this will not mean at all that this place will never be inhabited again - Compare Ezekiel 38:12 Jerusalem, then, as well as all of Israel will once again be inhabited by the true people of God, that is, the people who have appreciated this privilege by producing its fruits, a people that will be gathered from the four extremities of the earth - Isaiah 11:11, 12 So it is no coincidence that the persecution of the people of God, the real one, ends precisely in conjunction with the destruction of Babylon the Great. When nations have exhausted their time, which includes both the trampling of Jerusalem that persecution, that Armageddon will destroy this beast, and all compact peoples in the fight against the Lamb. At that moment Jerusalem will have been freed and the people of God, after the necessary period spent in the "inner rooms", will be able to go to that country which is still part of the promise and where in a short time it will start to flow milk and honey - Isaiah 26: 20 Connecting properly to the scriptures, we realize how wonderful is these prophecy and how was diminished in an attempt to demonstrate an unprovable date? God will lead us to the Promised Land, still promised, when there is no longer any trace of Babylon the Great, nor of all those who over time have trampled upon this nation with impunity - Exodus 3: 8; Malachi 3: 6; Isaiah 55:10, 11 Only those who understand the prophecy properly can hope to be among those who will be prepared to reach it - Isaiah 11: 11, 12; 1 Corinthians 14: 8-11

Chapters 19 and 20 of Revelation will unveil some significant details about the war of Armageddon and what will happen next. These details will include two major changes to the current understanding and, just as happened with the identity of Babylon the Great, this "change of vision" will be a real stumbling block for many Jehovah's Witnesses. These chapters will be examined in the next article but, faced with such a serious change of understanding for two other subjects, it was decided to treat them separately in the light of the whole Scripture. First of all we must realize that the Revelation speaks of the resurrection at the end of the millennium, and not during the millennium. This will be dealt with in detail in due course. For the moment ... accept this possibility only to make the theme of this article comprehensible, which must answer the question, in fact, "which nations disappear in Armageddon?". It is clear that here we return to the usual "problem" if the book was written in chronological order or not but meanwhile we saw that the 7 seals are sequential, the 7 trumpets must be sequential (the apostle Paul calls the seventh trumpet "the last trumpet") and so also the seven cups of the wrath of God. If all this is sequential ... is it consistent to think that just the last chapters are not? Let's try to read the whole chapter 20 of Revelation and follow the order of events. Satan is dissolved from his prison, then misleads the nations that are at the corners of the earth, these surround the field of saints and then are killed by fire coming down from the sky. After this event, the death and hades return the dead that are in them - Revelation 20: 11-13 The writing of Revelation 20: 4 says that the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over. "Until" means "up to the moment" and not "during" and this would mean that in these thousand years the elect would rule on the survivors of Armageddon and their families, but not the resurrected ones. The same term, "until", used in Matthew 1:25, we have always used it to show that Joseph did not have relations with his wife Marie until the birth of the child. This should be sufficient to show that the resurrection will take place after the end of the millennium, a concept that seems to be reaffirmed in verses 12 and 13. We will go deeper into these verses but now let's focus on these "rebels" who attack the people of God. Who are they and where did they come from? Revelations 20:7-10 says... "Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison, 8  and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Ma?gog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea. 9  And they advanced over the whole earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city. But fire came down out of heaven and consumed them.+ 10  And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulfur, where both the wild beast+ and the false prophet already were;+ and they will be tormented* day and night forever and ever". At the end of a thousand years, Satan is dissolved to "mislead those nations that are in the four corners of the earth" and gathers them to war. It seems really incredible that something like that happens! Is it possible that in the new world people still organize themselves in political nations, that create divisions and that even attack the part of that people remained faithful? This is the first hypothesis and roughly represents the current intention. Before thinking that it is nonsense ... is it possible to hypothesize that during the Armageddon war a part of the earth is spared also to allow the survival of the people of God? In several parts of the Bible it is said that during the time of judgment his faithful people escapes finding shelter to Edom, Moab and Ammon (which by the way are also the cities spared from the world war) - Compare for example Daniel 11:41 with Isaiah 16: 4; Psalm 108: 8-10 with Jeremiah 40: 10, 11 These three nations (Edom, Moab and Ammon) were mountainous / hilly and this recalls the words Jesus spoke to his disciples - Matthew 24: 15, 16 Does Scripture warn all Christians in the world to flee to the nearest mountains as soon as they see the disgusting thing about Israel? Indeed, if the destruction of Babylon the Great gave rise to Armageddon (as we have seen) and not to the great tribulation, "fleeing the mountains" would mean that Jehovah would save these mountains by force of things. In fact these "mountains" could be a specific locality of the earth where Jehovah will lead his people just before Armageddon. This or these locations would then be "preserved by judgment". It would not be the first time that Jehovah, in his love and mercy, avoids destroying a certain people because of his servants. According to the account of Genesis 19:21, 22, the angels of Jehovah avoid destroying Zoar for consideration of Lot, and yet, from what is understood by reading the whole story, that "little city" was part of Sodom or Gomorrah and therefore had to be destroyed. The war of Armageddon actually destroys the satanic system composed of the wild beast, the false prophet and his supporters. All those nations that are compact in fighting against the Lamb also fall. The vast majority of people die in this war because blinded and branded by the wild beast but will die all those who are not Christians? The Philadelphia congregation is told that "it would be preserved by the test that must come on the entire inhabited earth" and that this can be done at least hypothesizes that some Christians find shelter in a "free zone" - Revelation 3:10 If we can hypothesize this, then the nations that at the end of the millennium decide to attack the people of God, could be born from these surviving strains. Why, in fact, would you make a distinction between them and "the field of saints"? Are not all the inhabitants of the new world "saints"? In the new world will there be a "field of saints" and a "field of non-saints"? Another confirmation could come from the very protection of Jerusalem above; it is said to "fly in the desert" far from the face of the serpent. When Satan tries to make her drown "the earth comes to her aid" and this means that at least until the last moment of divine judgment there is still a "stable" part of the world - Revelation 12:15 This could also explain why the resurrection does not take place during this millennium; simply because you are not yet in that new world that we imagine even if it will already be a new world and you will already have many reasons to be happy. We should probably make a distinction between "millennial reign" (which will bring many blessings to faithful humanity) and "new world" that will begin after the resurrection, at the moment when Christ returns the kingdom to his God and Father. This period could simply be a period of transition during which human beings can live in peace without the influence of Satan and under the guidance of divine teaching for all those who wish to obey. In fact, one of the questions Satan raised in the Garden of Eden was precisely if man was able to govern himself but man, with the interference of Satan, he never really ruled alone.    Can man direct his steps without God and without Satan? Also to this we must answer  This is related to the words of Revelation 20: 3; Satan is bound "not so misleads the nations" and that it is necessary to give definitively answer to the issue raised in Eden. However, if all the nations were destroyed at Armageddon ... how could he mislead them? Would it make sense to say that Satan is bound to keep the nations that no longer exist? Possible nations in the four corners of the earth, born of this spared stock, could show if man is really able to govern himself in favorable conditions, that is without the influence of Satan. After this last human rebellion, which will have consciously shown that they prefer Satan's government to that of Jehovah, both Satan and disobedient humanity will be eliminated forever. Only after the resurrection of the dead and after their judgment "death and Ades will be thrown into the lake of fire" and therefore we should assume that, throughout the millennium, despite having favorable conditions, we will continue to age and die? It is unthinkable because the anointed rulers will fulfill their priestly functions by expiating the sin of humanity and thus preventing the death of their subjects. Death that, however, will always be lurking and not yet permanently eliminated until the end of the millennium. It will be "the last enemy" to be eliminated in fact, if at the end of the millennium there will still be "enemies to be eliminated" (the nations surrounding the holy field), this should demonstrate that the resurrection, and therefore the definitive elimination of death, it will happen only after that event - I Corinthians 15:26 In this regard the writing of I Corinthians 15:24, 25, if read carefully, seems to specify the order of events, that is, Jesus Christ will deliver the Kingdom to his God and Father when he has reduced to nothing "every government and every authority and power". Obviously if every government and every authority and power were reduced to nothing during the war of Armageddon, He (Jesus Christ) should deliver the government at that very moment, that is, when he had just taken power. Let's reread these last six lines and try to understand their meaning even if "this meaning" goes out blatantly against our most deeply rooted convictions. Verse 25 says ... "For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet". This would seem to mean that there will still be enemies during the millennial reign. So the Kingdom ruled by Christ will be a temporary provision to Jehovah's praise to bring humanity back to perfection and this can also include the destruction of the last governments, authorities and powers, which will ultimately refuse to submit - Revelation 20: 8   Who will truly surround the "field of saints"?   In Ezekiel chapter 38 the verses from 8 on wards it is said that attention will be paid to Gog of Magog after "many days" and therefore suggests that these had been left out that is not taken into account or spared during of judgment. Does not it seem a contradiction that Gog of Magog exists at the end of the satanic system of things and exists again in the new world at the end of the millennium? Does it not reflect that this "coalition of nations" always has the same name and indeed, in the description of Ezekiel, does not the subject change at all? If Gog of Magog is a coalition of nations, does not it seem strange that nations are formed under the reign of Christ? It is a contradiction only if we take for granted that all governments and all people are really destroyed in Armageddon. Evidently Gog of Magog does not exist again but it still exists (ie it has never ceased to exist). If "pay attention to him" after many days it means that they are always theirs and the "many days" are all the years of the millennial reign. Gog of Magog always has the same name because it is always the same subject. The people who "accumulate wealth and property" are obviously the people of God (the "field of saints" according to Revelation) and this indicates the many blessings that God's people will have during the millennial reign and the contrast with other peoples (why specify that there is a people that accumulates wealth if all accumulate the same riches?). Blessings that, apparently, will not have Gog of Magog otherwise there would be no such contrast and there would be no reason to feel envy - Ezekiel 38:12; compare Proverbs 10:22 Why, moreover, would there be this contrast with those who "do not even bar and doors" if we are all in a new world of peace, without thieves or other criminals? - Ezekiel 38:11 If read simply for what it is, the scripture really seems to indicate that, during the millennial reign of Christ, there still exist peoples who have bars and doors and are evidently those who have never been interested in the will of God for whom they must put " bars and doors" and pay attention to their own brothers. The events related to Gog Magog, described in chapters 38 and 39 of Ezekiel, are full of interesting details but one of the things that stands out right now is the distinction between them and Israel. It therefore seems that Israel, or the holy people of God, will live together with these other peoples for a thousand years - Ezekiel 39: 6, 7 At this point the writing of Isaiah 2: 2-4 acquires a particular meaning. So far we have applied this writing to people who, by accepting the truth today, change their behavior and "make their swords into plowshares" by becoming peaceful people. We have also applied it to the instruction that will be given to the resurrected in the New World, but let us now try to reread it by accepting the possibility of what we have just described. Isaiah 2: 2-4: "In the final part of the days,*The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains,+And it will be raised up above the hills,And to it all the nations will stream.+  3  And many peoples will go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah,To the house of the God of Jacob.+ He will instruct us about his ways,And we will walk in his paths.”+ For law* will go out of Zion,And the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem.+  4  He will render judgment among the nations And set matters straight* respecting many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning shears.+ Nation will not lift up sword against nation, Nor will they learn war anymore".  The mountain of Jehovah's house will be firmly established and raised. When? Evidently when the Satan system is eliminated, it will be clear that Jehovah's way of governing is the best ever. "All nations must flow to it", in what sense and which nations? Many nations have indeed flowed into the people of God, for whom it is recognized that fulfillment could have something to do with our days; nevertheless, it is possible that, at the end of Armageddon, people of the nations survived by the judgment of God (the peoples at the four corners of the earth) decide to flow to the mountain of Jehovah. After the incredible events of Armageddon, it should by now be clear who the True God is and what His people are. In this way, too, Jehovah is sanctified in the midst of the nations. Many people flow and say, "Come, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, and we will certainly walk in his paths" so it's describes as their own initiative and not as someone who has been persuaded through the preaching of the good news. Indeed, they themselves are saying "he will instruct us around his ways". We can imagine that many survivors will flow to the mountain of Jehovah once they have seen the great signs of Armageddon, abandoning their old nation and making the necessary changes to be accepted by God - Compare Revelation 11:13 and Joshua 9: 8-11 Yet it is easy enough to imagine that, despite these unequivocal signs of Jehovah's blessing on His people, not everyone will decide to be part of it. So many people will continue to stay in their nations, with their governments, refusing to rush to Jehovah's mountain. Seen from this perspective, it is no longer so incredible to imagine that, at the end of the millennium, when God's people have accumulated riches and blessings to no end, these nations organize themselves to "take many spoils" - Ezekiel 38: 10-12 Even the writing of Daniel 2:44 should make us reflect. The writing says: "“In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom+ that will never be destroyed.+ And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people.+ It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms,+ and it alone will stand forever". What realms is Daniel talking about? If we read the preceding verses we understand that we are talking about the kingdoms that make up the image of a man with a golden head, chest and arms of silver, belly and thighs of copper, legs of iron and feet of iron and clay . We know very well that these kingdoms are respectively Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, Rome and, according to current understanding, the Anglo-American empire (but, as we saw in a previous article, the last dominant king must be the king of the north). The same powers, also in the book of Daniel, are described as the lion with the wings of an eagle (or Babylon described in Daniel 7: 4), the ravenous bear with three ribs between the teeth (Media- Persia described in Daniel 7: 5), the leopard with four heads and four wings (the Macedonian or Greek empire described in Daniel 7: 6) and the frightful and terrible beast with the iron teeth and the ten horns (Rome and therefore the last power described in Daniel 7: 7, 8, 19). Why are the same realms or domains seen in two different ways? This is interesting because the beast that John sees "ascending from the sea" has characteristics of all these beasts - Revelation 13: 1, 2 It is in fact similar to a leopard, has the feet of a bear, the mouth of the lion and the ten horns of the last beast seen by Daniel. These are the kings that are destroyed by Jesus Christ and his elect at Armageddon, that is, the kingdoms that will coalesce in the final battle. Obviously it includes his image (the UN) and the false prophet - Revelation 19:19, 20 It includes all those who participated in the war, directly or indirectly, and all those who have persecuted or unjustly treated God's people - Revelation 19:21; Zechariah 2: 8 Surely a good part of humanity will be killed in this war because the ruler of the world will make sure to have as many people as possible, but will this mean that all kingdoms and all people will be destroyed except for Christians? Even those insignificant, small realms? Even those isolated from the rest of the world, like islands or small ethnic groups, including those people who, living in countries that are restrictive of religion or other religions, have never had the opportunity to know the marvelous truths of God's word? - See Ezekiel 39: 6 These are questions to think about. It is true that the "good news" was preached in all the inhabited earth before the end of the satanic system ... but did this really understand all the people and everyone really had the same opportunities? Beyond any human hypothesis, the words that should make us reflect more are those reported in Daniel 7:11, 12. The writing says ... "I kept watching at that time because of the sound of the arrogant* words that the horn was speaking;+ I watched until the beast was killed and its body was destroyed and it was given over to be burned in the fire. 12  But as for the rest of the beasts,+ their rulerships were taken away, and their lives were prolonged for a time and a season". What does this mean and how long does it last "a time and a season"? Meanwhile, from the context we see that the horn that speaks great things is referred to the "terrible and terrible beast" that is the last beast of Daniel's vision. There is talk of the period in which "thrones are placed" and "the Ancient of days" sits to judge and therefore can only refer to the time when Jehovah and Christ take power - Revelation 11: 15-18 It is said that the beast is killed and his body is given to the burning fire - Compare Revelation 19:19, 20 It is evident that the scripture is referring to the wild beast of Revelation at the time of its judgment and yet, after specifying that the beast is given to the burning fire (therefore it has been destroyed), verse 12 says ... "But as for the rest of the beasts,+ their rulerships were taken away, and their lives were prolonged for a time and a season". This specifies very clearly that the other domains are not destroyed but allows them to continue to exist for some time after the judgment of Armageddon. We try to stop for a moment and reread the last four lines carefully comparing the cited writings. In fact, if we read Revelation 19: 19-21 carefully, we see that the wild beast, the kings of the earth and their armies gather to make war against Jesus Christ and his army, but who is destroyed among all these? The writing says that the wild beast and the false prophet is taken and thrown into the lake of fire. Then, verse 21 says "the rest were killed with the long sword of him who sat on the horse, which [sword] came out of his mouth." The remaining whom? There are two subjects involved: the kings of the earth and their armies. By saying "the rest" does the vision refer to kings, their armies or both? If he also referred to both of Daniel's writing, he specifies that the domains of these kings are simply removed, not destroyed. Surely die those who are in that position (armies, any generals or kings) in fact the writing says that "they are killed" but they are not said to end up in the lake of fire. We know that the lake of fire means the second death and that is a place from which we do not return so we have the assurance that the wild beast is destroyed so as not to return again but the "remaining" are not uprooted from the earth. Not yet. Those who are waging war against the Lamb are killed, but evidently there will remain something of their kingdoms, that is, the nations belonging to these "remaining" who have been granted an extension for a time and a season. These will have a thousand years to recover and at least a part of them, quite numerous according to the words of Revelation 20: 8, will attack the people of God at the end of the millennium. Gog of Magog existed before Armageddon and will exist even later. Finally, as we have seen, after the destruction of these enemies there is still "one last enemy" to be eliminated: the death - See 1 Corinthians 15:26 This confirms the sequence of events of Revelation.   Â