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Everything posted by BillyTheKid46

  1. For almost two years, I have read many outrages idealism coming from opposers. I find it disheartening to know how embedded they have become to do Satan’s bidding in a natural world. For almost two years, I have read some within the Watchtower brotherhood compare themselves to opposers without realizing or perhaps they do, when they question the Watchtower authority, they also question God’s role with secular authority. If they find the secular authority to be a crime against humanity, then they must believe the Watchtower GB to be a crime against humanity, since God’s domain runs parallel. This is truly sad when the outward definition to satisfy a troubled heart is this. “Providence.” What is the definition of this word, and how can it be applied to God’s authority over, man. It’s sincerely a shame many that are now confused and conflicted with the way the Watchtower is moving forward are not only questioning the Watchtower abilities but also questioning God sovereignty. Many have become dismissive under their human emotion to say, we all have our own personal opinion if we want to, it doesn’t stop us from supporting God’s mission on earth, and our opinion certainly doesn’t affect others. The word “PROVIDENCE” once again comes into question. Who has this personal authority to relegate others on earth to question God’s authority? A Pharisee, an Unchurch fellowship, and un-conformist, a None-Church fellow, an atheist? If you are seriously looking to blame one within these groups, look no further, all these groups are within you. Then they understanding since 1879 should become clear with many in the organization comprised of the Watchtower in accordance with scriptural understanding to continue a standard of PROVIDENCE LEADERS. In an earthly expression, these leaders come by different names. However, which leaders of Christianity are following Christ example? Only God and Jesus know who the 144, 000 saints (anointed) will be. There is no predisposition for an anointed to automatically know he/she was chosen. Their earthly experience along with God’s Holy Spirit will guide those that have given of themselves to deserve such a role. While the apostles along with whomever Jesus appointed were NOT without sin, they accepted the role of Jesus faithful followers, even unto death. Did it make the Apostles infallible? No! Did it make those following Jesus infallible? NO! then why do opposers demand the Watchtower GB to see seen as infallible. Does it have to do with their teachings in the spirit of scripture? Does it mean there have been no one fallible within the ranks of the anointed class? I can remember, Judas Iscariot, and Raymond Franz. Were the Apostles condemned by the Jewish people for the actions of Judas? Then why do opposers condemn the Watchtower GB? Did Judas receive at that moment of hanging himself the fate of the second death? How about Raymond Franz. For leading people astray. Has anyone on earth claimed to be “infallible?” YES! The early Papacy claimed such honor by being Christ-like or the reincarnation of Christ himself. This would indeed bring into question how the original sin was washed away to make such a claim since Christ himself did not wash away any of the Apostles original sin. Then we would have to look at POPES, John Paul ll, and Benedict the XVl. This is to show the mentality of those that have trained their hearts to hate, without a real logical explanation, other than just to have anger and animosity toward fellow Stewart's completing a task is found in scripture. How about those that claim to be anointed. If a person has personal grievances about the contribution of other anointed? How then can that person be of the anointed class? That person can’t, since the first rule of Jesus instruction was to through away the old self, and start the commission anew. Scripture has NO double standards to its understanding, nor does it have a clause where anyone can pick and choose which commandments to obey. Just like the apostles obeyed all of Christ new covenant and the laws of God, so to do the anointed need to approach life with such vigor and zeal. Without that understanding, it is by name only that people subject their personal actions to ridicule and not having any claim to the righteousness of God’s gift found in God’s Holy Spirit. Back in the day, the Watchtower analyzed there were about 3000 anointed left. Now the figures have gone up to about 33,000. Does this mean all of those that claim divine inspiration actually have it? NO! To an extent, personal emotion at times gives a person compulsion to feel a certain way. Therefore, what is Jesus truth? The text of John 8:12 was entered as an example. What does the proper context of Jesus saying, “I am the light of the world” really mean within John 8:12-30. I Am the Light of the World 12 Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.” 13 So the Pharisees said to him, “You are bearing witness about yourself; your testimony is not true.” 14 Jesus answered, “Even if I do bear witness about myself, my testimony is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going, but you do not know where I come from or where I am going. 15 You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one. 16 Yet even if I do judge, my judgment is true, for it is not I alone who judge, but I and the Father2 who sent me. Is this not the same argument being presented by opposers about the Watchtower GB? It has similarities to understand the actions and conduct of those believing in themselves as an anointed to see the conduct of a Pharisee with such a claim. A claim of denial, that was apparent with the Pharisees with Jesus. While the Watchtower GB is neither Jesus nor the Apostles, they continue a vital role commissioned by God and Christ to “continue” to the very last day. When an anointed moves to a different understanding of scripture than the first century Christian under the direction of Christ, that chosen path is exposed as was done with Raymond Franz. Was he really removed because of his man-made crisis? Was he removed because some suggest, it was due to not supporting 607BC and 1914AD? NO! He was removed because his spirituality became conflicted. Therefore, a conflicted person cannot possibly think, God’s Holy Spirit dwells within themselves. Can we compare the early stages of Christianity with today? NO! Jesus new covenant was coming to pass and written for our modern day understanding. While that understanding was being cultivated, the Apostles were learning the way of Christianity through Jesus. In modern time, Bible Study is meant to adhere to what is already known about Jesus and the Apostles on what the framework was obeying God’s written commandments. No need for anyone to relearn the steps of the Apostles since they have been written into law. Then the proper intent with the correct context of John 8 is by describing the difference between light and darkness. Raymond Franz started in “light” but eventually fell into “darkness.” How did ancient Israel see the heavenly manna and the springs of life? Who brought those things to ancient Israel? That was the purpose of Christ saying in John 8. A person being full of God’s Holy Spirit, would understand exactly that. They would not contrive excuses as to why other anointed should not be or have failed in their task until GOD himself exposes such a person for judgment. The first thing Raymond lost, can be seen in Proverbs 3:5. The second thing Raymond lost is found in 1 John 4:1. The third thing Raymond lost was the ability to pray fully and resort back to scriptural understanding, rather than following his heart and mind. Fourth thing Raymond lost is found in 1 Corinthians 14:33 which in general subjected his bible understanding to a confusing ideology. Much as it’s been done here time after time by opposers that don’t understand this cited text of Corinthians. Of course, there are many more, but Raymond’s heart once conflicted and confused, made it impossible for God to leave such a bad apple, inside a barrel of apples to rot the rest. 1 Corinthians 31:12, 1 Peter 5:8 It is also possible some former Bethel members will contradict certain facts, with experiences they personally had. However, there is still an amount of loyalty to this fallen brethren that exists today, and that loyalty is also misplaced within the confines of a conflicted and confused, person. 2 Corinthians 11:14, 2 Corinthians 10:5, James 1:5 How then can anyone ask a conflicted person anything to do with Bible understanding instead of trusting in God for any misplaced personal understanding? 2 Timothy 2:7 The resemblance of an infraction of God’s Law however trivial might seem, NOT in keeping with the spirit in which God gave Christ the privilege of his sacrifice. A true anointed person full of spirit would know just that. Thanksgiving 3 We ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers, as is right, because your faith is growing abundantly, and the love of every one of you for one another is increasing. 4 Therefore we ourselves boast about you in the churches of God for your steadfastness and faith in all your persecutions and in the afflictions that you are enduring. The Judgment at Christ’s coming 5 This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering— 6 since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels 8 min flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
  2. Simple, obey the laws of the land just like in Spain the UK. It will not satisfy those that lack the understanding about laws in reference to no longer keep certain information at a kingdom hall, that the Watchtower is compelled by those new laws to do, to start claiming barrel fire burning of documents, but it will safeguard the Watchtower and secular authority from making mistakes if it comes to adjudicating someone for a serious crime.
  3. Only the blind and the incredulous will never understand the embodiment of the reformation movement started in the 15-16 century to overcome the false teaching of the papacy. The reformation has continued till this day. However, a single person decided it was NOT just to reform the church but to “revise” it’s understanding of the first-century church of Christ. This wise servant, even though claimed no divine intervention, did receive divine intervention through seeing the obstacles laid before Christendom, and making changes with what he felt were the proper context in scripture. Those pioneers which were many denominations included did not successfully apply what God had exposed to those worthy of such sight. It was only those that approached such insight with wisdom did it become clear what path God wanted to be taken. Therefore, the Watchtower GB is NOT a given body by man, but passed down and earned by God’s Holy Spirit. Only the faithless will argue the powers of God, and who should receive such a gift. As scripture states, faithful servants have different roles in the body of Christ. It is not up to one member to say who has the privilege and authority to see over God’s sheep. ONLY GOD DOES! NAS Acts 6:3 "But select from among you, brethren, seven men of good reputation, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may put in charge of this task. BGT Acts 6:3 ἐπισκέψασθε δέ, ἀδελφοί, ἄνδρας ἐξ ὑμῶν μαρτυρουμένους ἑπτά, πλήρεις πνεύματος καὶ σοφίας, οὓς καταστήσομεν ἐπὶ τῆς χρείας ταύτης, (AC 6.3); (3) spiritually; (a) as the supreme intelligence of God and Christ (CO 2.3; possibly LU 11.49); (b) of Christ as the embodiment of God's wisdom (1C 1.24); (c) as enlightenment given through divine revelation (2P 3.15); (d) as God's plan of salvation as revealed in the gospel (1C 2.7); (4) as the title of a book containing wise sayings Wisdom (possibly LU 11.49) 2490 ἐπισκέπτομαι visit, care for, be concerned about; pick out, look for (Ac 6.3); perhaps rise upon (Lk 1.78) 37.104 καθίστημι ; καθίζω: to assign to someone a position of authority over others - 'to put in charge of, to appoint, to designate.' καθίστημι: κατέστησεν ὁ κύριος ἐπὶ τῆς οἰκετείας αὐτοῦ 'his master placed him in charge of his (other) servants' Mt 24.45. 'To put someone in charge of someone else' may be expressed in a number of languages as 'to give someone the authority to command others' or 'to say to someone, You are to give orders to others.' καθίζω: τοὺς ἐξουθενημένους ἐν τῇ ἐκκλησίᾳ τούτους καθίζετε 'will you designate those who have no standing in the church?' 1 Cor 6.4. In view of the particular context of 1 Cor 6.4 it may be necessary to indicate more clearly what is involved in such a designation. One may therefore wish to translate as 'are you going to take these matters to be settled by people who have no standing in the church?' 3. by metonymy, household, i. e. body of attendants, servants, domestics: Matt. 24:45 R G; Luke 12:42 (and often so in Greek writings; cf. Lob. ad Phryn, p. 469; for עֲבָדִים, Gen. 45:16(.* Therefore, JW’s should not be tempted by those who oppose the spirit of God’s laws, with their lack of understanding. Some JW’s have forgotten, these faithful servants work for us in our best spiritual interest. They don’t work for themselves as a separate part in the Body of Christ. 2.43 τυφλόω: (a causative derivative of τυφλός 'unable to understand,' 32.42) to cause someone not to be able to understand - 'to make someone not understand, to remove someone's understanding.' ἐτύφλωσεν τὰ νοήματα τῶν ἀπίστων 'he made unbelievers unable to understand' or 'he made unbelievers' minds unable to comprehend' 2 Cor 4.4. NAS Matthew 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.' (Matt. 7:23 NAS) 33.221 ὁμολογέω: to make an emphatic declaration, often public, and at times in response to pressure or an accusation - 'to declare, to assert.' τότε ὁμολογήσω αὐτοῖς ὅτι Οὐδέποτε ἔγνων ὑμᾶς 'then I will declare to them, I never knew you' Mt 7.23; τῆς ἐπαγγελίας ἧς ὡμολόγησεν ὁ θεὸς τῷ Ἀβραάμ 'the promise which God had declared to Abraham' Ac 7.17.
  4. This is why God's sovereignty is to be maintained at all cost, regardless if it's out on ministry or here. There is no need to put God's commandments to the test. Something too often has been done here by those that have a hard time having faith in those that earned their leadership role through God's Holy Spirit. One way to look at it, no one here qualifies. This is why understanding the context and intent of scripture is so important to glorify God as Jesus did even with his personal concern of his sacrifice not being seen but a stain in humanity. To Jewish opposers, it did regardless. This is why Constantine changed the outlook of disgrace to victory. But whose Victory, God's or Christendom.
  5. I guess you don't see the hard irony of not reading some of my posts since I do find many things hilarious coming from opposers. Sometimes it's even better than a good cup of coffee. What's even funnier is a self-appointed person calling itself anointed, that refuses to see the chain of command laid out in scripture, and continues to place before the people misapplied scripture. Everytime I see it, it makes my day. It's like watching Comedy Central on the internet. Yet, this person accusation is of someone wearing their heart on their sleeve, when the same thing can be said about this person. The only difference, this person is condemning peoples souls to the second death if this person is successful in changing someone's heart. I believe I mentioned, this person has gone beyond, what can be called ????
  6. If you still haven’t figured it out, Proverbs 6:14, Proverbs 6:16-19, Romans 16:17-18 New International Version (NIV) 17 I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people. Titus 3:9-11 New International Version (NIV) 9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. 10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. 11 You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned. Did I not mention Titus? Did I not already subscribe the remedy earlier? How much more can the blind go before the other senses kick in? Why should I eliminate God’s laws to accommodate anyone here? James. Laughed at me earlier, because he believes I'm in the same level as people here, but does he know the difference between arguing to maintain God’s sovereignty? Rather than just argue to cause divisions. He doesn’t? Which one good brother can I count on here that hasn't done this within God's Commands and Watchtower understanding. However, I will gladly start to comply with that commandment of "have nothing to do with them" from this point on. I will stick to the talking points of mishandling, misrepresenting, and misapplying published articles or script. What I won't do anymore is have anything to do with opposers and those that support opposing views. Peace Out!
  7. This is hilarious coming from a person that has been hell-bent on trashing the Watchtower GB. Can you even hear yourself think? However, show me, one good Brother, here? As for enemies (opposers) I treat them exactly the way they treat me, and as scripture states as unbelievers that don't deserve my undo attention. 😁 Therefore, your suggestion and commentary are meaningless, since those that have known the law need to repent to be considered part of Christs Body once again. Where do you and your kind stack up to God's commands? 😉 Try to practice what you preach. Then it will take a 1000 fold to be considered and anointed. The first thing an anointed learns, Don't break God's commandments, regardless of how one feels inward. 🤔 A true JW does not support opposers. A true JW doesn't incite disagreements or sow discourse to make a book. A true JW doesn't come out of the Bethel Family to trash the GB the same way you are doing. A true JW doesn't support opposers conspiracies like that of 1975. So, don't get sanctimonious in telling me, there is my kind of brothers here since I can go on and on. 😪
  8. It appears Butler and Srecko don’t understand American English if it wasn’t with a lot of humor attached to it. How silly, is the misapplication of a stated text be by those blind enough not to read and understand the context. I guess Jesus was correct about the blind leading the blind. The good thing, there are 3-year-olds with greater intelligence than what is being displayed here. I must admit, I found the comment of "new light" hilarious. This is why James, attempting to sidestep the ideology that the Watchtower GB took that position of the 7 instead of thinking they earned it, makes me think, He doesn’t understand what Titus meant to Paul and the reason why Paul sent Titus ahead. Maybe someday, you’ll learn to understand the highlighted portion of a text, before commenting, and apply them to the argument at hand. This will give someone a clue, that a self-appointed anointed cannot possibly have that title if that person continues to break Biblical laws. Keep it up, people, you are the laughing stock of Bible understanding. Another reason not to have a poor teacher as a self-proclaimed anointed to guide the blind. Another good reason not to waste my time, with deaf and blind opposers, with this subject anymore.
  9. As in pathos, or outright. Which do you prefer? I’ll give you both renditions directly from scripture. A providence mark in denial by your understanding of scripture. The other issue, yes you are exalting yourself with greater knowledge that you don’t possess. There is no need for you to disfellowship the 8 men, you have already done that by your rhetoric for others to rally behind you. Or do you not consider Srecko and John appointees to your understanding. Therefore, you do seat in Moses chair. First Timothy 2:1-2 Instructions on Worship 2 I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time. 7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles. In your mind, who are “all those in authority” in which the Watchtower GB can’t be included in a position of responsibility? If you personally dealt with a corrupt soul an unrepentant soul, why would you allow such a person to corrupt others that are truly defining themselves in the proper worship of God? Please explain, how this can be achieved? Do these 8 men in your mind need to be accredited by a divinity school to be ordained in order to carry on the clear instructions from Christ and scripture? Romans 13:4-7 Submission to authorities 4 For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. How do you understand the cited text? 6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor. Do you believe this text is only meant for secular authority? If yes, explain your understanding of this citation. How would you define your utter lack of respect to the consideration of one claiming to be anointed? God Chooses Leaders After King Saul’s abdicating the throne due to his disobedience, God told Samuel “I will send you to Jesse the Bethlehemite, for I have provided for myself a king among his sons” (1st Samuel 16:1b) so when “Jesse made seven of hissons pass before Samuel. And Samuel said to Jesse, “The Lord has not chosen these” (1st Sam 16:10). Acts 6:1-7 The Choosing of the Seven 6 In those days when the number of disciples was increasing, the Grecian Jews among them complained against the Hebraic Jews because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution of food. 2 So the Twelve gathered all the disciples together and said, “It would not be right for us to neglect the ministry of the word of God in order to wait on tables. 3 Brothers, choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of the Spirit and wisdom. We will turn this responsibility over to them 4 and will give our attention to prayer and the ministry of the word.” 5 This proposal pleased the whole group. They chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit; also Philip, Procorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas from Antioch, a convert to Judaism. 6 They presented these men to the apostles, who prayed and laid their hands on them. 7 So the word of God spread. The number of disciples in Jerusalem increased rapidly, and a large number of priests became obedient to the faith. Explain why you openly defy Christ words in this instance by which the Watchtower GB has been following since the correct understanding by the earlier pioneers of the Watchtower. Do you believe, God has the authority to choose leaders which would include the eight men? If you believe God doesn’t have that authority, then explain who is above God? Do you take exception on the fact there are 8 men instead of 7? Acts 2:41-45 The Fellowship of the Believers 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day. 42 They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43 Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. 44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. 46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. How do you see this cited text about fellowship? You consider this to be an ineffective way of worship, while scripture is clear. Titus 1:7-14 1:7 As Paul repeats here the requirement of “blamelessness,” he introduces the functional title ἐπίσκοπος, “overseer” (“bishop”), for the elder, as he did in Acts 20:28 (cf. v. 17). He does so before he describes negatively and positively the traits that must characterize one who exercises oversight of others. If no one is allowed to take the lead by your standards, then, why would Paul include such overseers and Elders in the process to continue Jesus work? This will be my last submission “witness” I am overly bored now. You have no convincing argument through Bible principles to object to the Watchtower leadership, other than your personal view of animosity toward them. We can go on and on, it is pointless since cited scripture by you is being misapplied to the correct contextual understanding. Continue to feel the way you want to, and I will do the same. Remember the questions I posted are not meant to be openly answered, but rather considered by you and your stance in not complying to the instructions given by Christ in your heart. If you want to learn the correct way of understanding scripture, you need to be willing instead of holding on to an unrepentant way of life. If you do, Then ask a true witness out there, not here. Meanwhile, you have given yourself that authority.
  10. What you are now suggesting, by once again changing the direction and focus to something else, the church has no authority to keep the church clean. Where in scripture does it state, the body of Christ will hold unclean members? Matthew 18:15-18, 1 Corinthians 5:1-6, 2 Corinthians 2:5-11, Romans 16:17, Titus 3:9-11, 2 Corinthians 2:5-11 Forgive the Sinner 5 Now if anyone has caused pain, he has caused it not to me, but in some measure—not to put it too severely—to all of you. 6 For such a one, this punishment by the majority is enough, 7 so you should rather turn to forgive and comfort him, or he may be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. 8 So I beg you to reaffirm your love for him. 9 For this is why I wrote, that I might test you and know whether you are obedient in everything. 10 Anyone whom you forgive, I also forgive. Indeed, what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been for your sake in the presence of Christ, 11 so that we would not be outwitted by Satan; for we are not ignorant of his designs. Therefore, your proposal has a difference. While it might seem you agree with certain aspects of the anointed, you reject other aspects of the role of the anointed. Therefore, they don’t exalt themselves as you claim. They don’t see themselves above anyone else. They see themselves as equals, but with greater responsibility within the body of Christ. Why would there be a need to show excessive sorrow? Is it for someone going against Bible principles? Under your understanding, Christians would have to accept an unclean part(member) or is to show that member the pain for having been lead astray to show genuine repentance for understanding the wrong direction they have taken in their Christian life. This text is tailored specifically for your consideration. How then can you think of yourself an “anointed” when you violate the very fabric of biblical law? Titus 3:9-11 9 But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. 10 As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, 11 knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned. By your assertion, you are exalting yourself by thinking you have a higher position as an anointed that you gave yourself than that of the Watchtower GB. God's Holy Spirit would NOT dwell in such a person, by suggesting very unclean member is allowed in the Body of Christ. An anointed person would not allow such a thought in their mind. Where in scripture does it state you can apply a double standard in scripture?
  11. Librarian, I don’t believe that was the intent of this individual. However, it has been submitted for review. Whatever policies will be directed to John Butler, Interpol will handle that for his role and personal conduct. If you wish to remove me, that will be considered too. Whistleblower act will come into charge. Just for bringing an action of another to your attention. But, it’s good you have removed such an insidious commentary, Thank you!
  12. Wrong. What you are desperately trying to do is exalt yourself as an anointed. You are not. Your ideological understanding is flawed, and until you accept that, there is no number of citations given, will change what scripture actually states. Now if there are other JW's that think the same way, then they learned just as you did, on their own without the guidance of the Watchtower. The clue that should be obvious, you just stated, who is the Church of Christ.
  13. Since I got bored with this garbage that needs to be set aside by true Christians? Exalted by those that generate such meaningless controversies, I will leave John and Witness with a final thought. Explain the following if you can. Not to me, to yourselves. While he is in office, he has precedence; holder when deposed, he is a peasant or a townsman like the rest. Beyond all doubt, then, a priest is no longer a priest when he is deposed. But now they have invented characters indelible, and prate that a deposed priest is nevertheless something different from a mere layman. They even dream that a priest can never become a layman, or be anything else than a priest. All this is mere talk and man-made law. From all this it follows that there is really no difference between laymen and priests, princes and bishops, "spirituals" and "temporal," as they call them, except that of office and work, but not of "estate"; for they are all of the same estate,—true priests, bishops and popes,—though they are not all engaged in the same work, just as all priests and monks have not the same work. This is the teaching of St. Paul in Romans xii and I Corinthians xii, and of St. Peter in I Peter ii, as I have said above, viz., that j^41 we are all one body of Christ, the Head, all members one. Of another. Christ has not two different bodies, one "temporal," the other "spiritual." He is one Head, and He has one body. Romans 12:4, 1 Corinthians 12:12, Peter 2:9 1 Augustine, the master-theologian of the Ancient Church, bishop of Hippo in Africa from 395-430. 2 Ambrose, bishop of Milan from 374-307, had not yet been baptized at the time of his election to the episcopate, which was forced upon him by the unanimous voice of the people of the city. 3 Cyprian, bishop of Carthage, 247-258, is said to have consented to accept the office only when the congregation surrounded his house and brought him to yield to their entreaties. 2. a part as member of a whole, member fig. extension of 1: of the many-sided organism of the Christian community (on the figure of the body and its members, a favorite one in ancient lit., e.g. Aristot., Pol. 1253a 20-29; cp. Ar. 13, 5; Ath. 8, 1; s. Ltzm., Hdb. on 1 Cor 12:12; WNestle, D. Fabel des Menenius Agrippa: Klio 21, 1927, 350-60): the individual Christians are members of Christ, and together they form his body (for this idea cp. Simplicius in Epict. p. 70, 51: souls are μέρη τοῦ θεοῦ; 71, 5.—At p. 80, 54 the soul is called μέρος ἢ μέλος τοῦ θεοῦ; Iren. 5, 2, 2 [Harv. II 319, 2, 1]) 1 Cor 12:27; Eph 5:30; 1 Cl 46:7; IEph 4:2; ITr 11:2; cp. Eph 4:16 v.l. ἀλλήλων μέλη members of each other Ro 12:5; Eph 4:25; 1 Cl 46:7b. In 1 Cor 6:15a for a special reason the σώματα of the Christians are called μέλη Χριστοῦ. Since acc. to Paul’s understanding Since you all decided to go back in time. I figured to show how far back this ideology goes.
  14. Remember I can recite Greek with Pathos for those that don't understand, as well. καθάπερ ἐν ἑνὶ σώματι πολλὰ μ. ἔχομεν as we have many parts/members in one body Ro 12:4ab; cp. 1 Cor 12:12a, 14, 18-20, 25f; Js 3:5 (Apollod. [II BC]: 244 fgm. 307 Jac. κράτιστον τῶν μελῶν ἡ γλῶσσα). τὰ μ. τοῦ σώματος the parts of the body (Diod. S. 5, 18, 12; Philo, In Flacc. 176; Orig., C. Cels. 7, 38, 13) That means nothing. It only means something to those that want to be seen as intelligent. But, in a scholarly world, it means nothing.
  15. LOL! What makes you think I’m not? Because I can recite scripture the right way? Look at the ignorance being pushed by you and witness. We are in two different aspects of the body of Christ. This person has you convinced in what? I already know the 144,000 are anointed. So what! What does that have to do with we are all part of the body as different members? Why can’t you and witness answer a simple question? It seems the one that was never a witness was you John and ironically “witness” that still believe they are Christians. That means if you state you're Christians, then your doctrine is false. That means your false prophets within a false religion. 🤔 Learn Bubba! Learn! But somehow I now the obtuse structure of witness to go back in time to get a meaningless article for this argument. Evade, evade, evade, and change the focus. How childish. I am surprised this person didn’t go back to 1879, lol! 😁 What’s even funnier is the lack of understanding with the example given. *** w63 9/1 p. 537 Names for Christ and His Congregation *** Names for Christ and His Congregation I guess I will have to wait another couple of days so witness can research for a rebuttal, when those with true knowledge just need to recite.
  16. Then, why does scripture state otherwise? Are you saying witnesses believe the same thing you do? Did you bother to read the cited scriptures above, or was Jesus and the Apostles just making things up? If anyone here believes as you and witness, then it would make perfect sense why you people never learned scripture the right way. Come on! Popeye, I got your spinach. Pick up the question for witness. Where in scripture does it state only the "144,000" comprise the body of Christ when scripture disproves that ideology? I won't respond to witness anymore since that alias is stuck on rerun. Perhaps, you might be better at it. If witness made you a convert, then that's one soul this person will be levied against this person by God's justice.
  17. How does that prevent them from being part of the body? How ignorant do you want to be? The question was not answered but superimposed to include another factor without clarifying the first. Therefore, the spiritual child you reverted back to is yourself. the blindness and ignorance with anything Biblical, you just as, witness have reverted to spiritual nothingness. Meaning your behavior against the Watchtower and its leaders have no credibility and less defense in your sultry application of scripture. Relearn scripture before thinking of applying it in an intelligent way. Meanwhile, what part of your attitude against the GB makes you a Christian in your distorted mind. Give me a good example from Christ words? Try not to evade the question like, witness, that is confused on who comprises the body of Christ. Show some kind of intelligence by thinking for yourself and apply a proper text.
  18. Just as I thought. Can't give a rational answer, that you have to resort to more garbage. The day, you what to answer scriptural definitions without resorting to nonsense, I'll be glad to listen. Meanwhile, you can't make a logical defense for hating the GB as you do. Which by the way is breaking Christ instructions and the new covenant. Your to lost to understand how far gone you've descended beyond apostasy? Therefore, I will gladly show you your errors without acknowledging you don't comprise anything with Christianity by your actions and scriptural blindness. As cited earlier " So, I don’t need you to cite other text. Stick to understanding one text at a time. What is your understanding of 1 Corinthians."
  19. Thank's for the clarification. It goes far when citing credibility. 😀 Welcome to being part of this world. It does seem to be the simpler thing to do. I, however, adhere to God's commands. 😉
  20. Why didn’t you explain it to Srecko? I want you to say it since you’re conflicted as to who comprises the body of Christ. You seem to have a different understanding between, faithful servants, anointed, and the royal priesthood. How do you define these members when they can be included? Therefore, I asked the question first. Give me a scriptural citation where you think, all who go before God to profess their loyalty and faith by adhering to God by Christ, have no part in the body of Christ. Don’t evade the question. You are the expert according to yourself, now answer it. Romans 12:5, 1 Corinthians 12:12–27, Ephesians 3:6 and 5:23, Colossians 1:18 and Colossians 1:24 We agree on one point. Christ is the head. Now are the anointed (Members) not a part? Did the Apostles spring up all of a sudden like the devil's horns? Of course, I’m referring to their role on earth, before they descend. Why include it in scripture if it isn’t so. Say it Joseph Smith. You seem to have walked in the desert with Christ. When did he make a change in scripture to accommodate your interpretation? Do you not understand the following scripture 1 Corinthians 12:27? So, I don’t need you to cite other text. Stick to understanding one text at a time. What is your understanding of 1 Corinthians? One Body with Many Members 12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For kin one Spirit we were all baptized into one body Jews or Greeks, slaves4 or free—and mall were made to drink of one Spirit. 14 For the body does not consist of one member but of many. 15 If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the sense of hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell? 18 But as it is, God arranged the members in the body, each one of them, as he chose. 19 If all were a single member, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts,yet one body… 27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. 28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way[1] Once again, where in scripture does it state the anointed can’t be part of the body of Christ, while here on earth by their teaching and administrating God’s laws and commandments? If you find a text, apply it. Then we would have to understand Romans 12:1-8, living for God. Gifts of Grace 3 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned. 4 For as in one body we have many members, 5 and the members do not all have the same function, 5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. 6 Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, pin proportion to our faith; 7 if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching;
  21. This would mean what definition is being used when stating apostasy. John and others use this definition: While I myself use the looser term of apostasy? Therefore, it would depend on the terminology one is exercising. But to state you seldom use the word, is an understatement, to say the least. At most, well you know where I’m going with this. Unless you are suggesting this is a scam with no meaning behind it. 😀 What would a marvelous citation of scripture be?
  22. What do you believe is going on with these texts citation? Are you somehow comparing the Watchtower to be praying to the "false" god BAAL? how ensidious that is.
  23. According to you, all those in a role of leadership are wrong and don’t belong in the composition of the body of Christ. Where in scripture does it state that?
      Hello guest!
      Hello guest!
      Hello guest!
      Hello guest!
      Hello guest!
    These lists comprise leaders of a church. Therefore, in your view, Jesus somehow has told you personally, all these people are wrong and only you or your kind of Christianity is right. In this instance, and only this issue, who holds more of credibility, here? You or the rest of the world, which seemingly is accepting the word of Christ? Now, are these church leaders wrong on certain things, when it’s obvious their actions speak louder than words when it comes to certain interpretations of scripture, YES! Yes, they are. There lies a difference when attempting to single out something out of the lack of Bible understanding.
  24. Now! Now! who asked first. 😉 What does Christendom speculate about churches? Do you believe Apostle Paul was insane to write letters to churches? Colossians 4:18 was Paul writing to invisible or symbolic churches, by your interpretation and standard? Were these churches not man-made, or do you believe, divine intervention built them? 🤔 Remember, the theme of "garbage" has not been lost here with all these queries.
  25. How does your silly outlook challenge the very fabric of what Christ taught if you are so dismissive of the body of Christ and his living church and those that comprise that body? However, I do find apostates, try desperately to justify their end game through ignorance. There is only one way to treat apostates TOM, it’s not through sympathy. It’s through demonstrating to others the hypocrisy and the apostasy they harbor in order to apply the scriptural understanding of such people. Where in scripture does it stipulate NOT to form the Church of Christ, and have NO leaders to guide the way. What kind of an irrational ideology do you have about a physical building and a symbolic structure that even first century Christians entered in order to pay tribute to our creator?
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