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Everything posted by BillyTheKid46

  1. That’s understandable. However, with respect to the 2019 Shepard book, it is an internal unethical person in the UK that has no shame. Other than that. It’s appropriate for corporations to have checks and balances with Business Ethics and Corporate Governance. “Optimal corporate governance mechanisms are contextual and may vary by industries and activities. Identifying what constitutes good corporate governance practice is complex, and cannot be templated into a single form. One needs to identify the strengths and weaknesses in the system but also the underlying conditions which the system is dependent upon (cf. Pinto 2005, p. 26; Maher and Andersson 2000). The institutions that compose the system of corporate governance and complement each other consist not just of the law, finance, and ownership structure. Unfortunately, people think it’s so simple to run a big corporation, and the corporation isn’t governed by local, state and federal laws. At least in the US. Oh Well!
  2. The Watchtower runs on the honor system. Something you probably ignored or didn't accept when you were a witness There is a difference in interpretation between the word clergy. To the Watchtower, its interest is to obey secular authority on how they view that word, in order to follow their laws appropriately. Here, you are leaping into an assumption. Only ex-witnesses as yourself believe internal memos marked confidential are secret but rather private. Just like any other religion. How many religions will give you full access to their own private practices and procedures? Therefore, why do you believe the Watchtower should be the "only" organization to disclose everything. Do you understand corporate laws?
  3. Yes, this should be a starting point if anyone wants to involve themselves in things that are known of their business. I'm not referring to having to take action if an incident is done in your view and it's unjust or a danger to someone, however, there is a difference with getting involved to a situation and meddling. This is why Elders are admonished not to interfere with the secular authority's investigation.
  4. The good thing, I don’t need to rely on witness testimony to understand what you submit as proof is just untrue. Internal memo speaks for themselves. If a judicial committee erred, then that committee erred. But, since the internal BOE letters I submitted is a directive to the entire body of Elders throughout the world then, if you want to believe disgruntled ex-witnesses, that’s your prerogative. Just don’t make it mine. I’m not buying what you’re selling, I’ll follow the real truth. Just make sure you have all the facts that you won’t find on the internet before you make a bold statement.
  5. I’d say, it’s about time to remove all the garbage about the Watchtower. It’s one thing to challenge a corporation, but it’s quite another thing to use malicious slander. These open forums are incapable of having any kind of morality. I remember an ex-witness “Jay” that became a born again Christian in 2001, enjoys maligning the Watchtower daily on the internet, even though he refuses to accept his misguided ideology as to why another religion was found more appealing. The freedom to do whatever we want without consequences is a good start since a good Christian life means obeying God, not man or his desires. Therefore, it’s laughable why the decision was made. The Watchtower he maligns now is just an excuse. A Christian life means assuring the success of Bible knowledge. By, Jay disparaging the Watchtower doesn’t support being a born again Christian much less, support's being a Christian period. Hopefully, the lawsuit will trickle down to news media sites that support the malicious slander of individual religions. Remember, if anyone googles Watchtower, the majority are directed through algorithms to garbage sites. Sites that are willfully supporting not only on copyright material but also violating secular laws by posting corporate confidential communication. The latest being the shepherd book 2019. I’d like to see that person disfellowshiped. But, it’s not easy to remove someone from the UK branch office without solid proof.
  6. It's the business of the victim and those they wish to include. The Watchtower has not stood in the way of people taking their allegation to secular authority. However, what business do you think you have with an individuals decision to talk to, secular authority. Does this mean, a victim will have to speak with the entire congregation in order to decide? This would be troubling to anyone. Especially, if you take the Watchtower out of the equation. Would an individual need to speak to their local community to take action? What business is it of the community.
  7. You can sum it up by one simple observation. Do you personally tell an elder the everyday life you lead? If your answer is yes, then you are lying to yourself. Elders have a responsibility to protect a victim from loose tongues. They have an obligation to keep internal judicial matters private. Therefore, internal letters marked (confidential) means just that. The fact the Watchtower has always been on top of certain situations opposers deem secret or “cover-ups” to satisfy their meaningless lives, doesn’t make the Watchtower operate in secrecy, backdoors or in alleyways. Therefore, it should be enough to know that “competent” Elders are on top of a situation, even if the congregation is aware of it or not. The fact the Watchtower had to be explicit in order for Elders not to shift the blame on the governing body as they did with the ARC, is another thing the legal department needs to clarify as usual. To be sure, the Watchtower is, sued just about every day for one thing or another. Child abuse is among them. In some past cases, even the perpetrator would sue the Watchtower for a loose tongue. However, the Watchtower up to 2008, had successfully argued the culpability aspect. After the laws changed to allow monetary rewards without limitations after 2008, it became a challenge. This, however, has NOT stopped the Watchtower from protecting an abused victim if they are still in danger or the perpetrators still possess a threat. It has not supported that notion that victims should keep silent in order not to bring reproach to God. It is false to say, the victims are not told to bring this type of abuse to secular authority. Will there still be instances the members won’t be in the loop with what is going on with certain matters within the congregations? For sure. That doesn’t mean anything to loyal witnesses. The Watchtower deals with whatever laws govern the secular authority just as much as it is governed by God’s law. 1 Peter 4:15 15-Indeed, none of you should suffer as a murderer or thief or wrongdoer, or even as a meddler. One easy way to look at it, do you meddle in the affairs of state in a daily bases? Does the Watchtower meddle in your personal affairs in a daily bases? This is the culpability of witnesses forcing the organization to make changes. Is that a good thing when it’s written in scripture? The proverbs stipulate in one instance, Proverbs 18:21 New International Version (NIV) The power of speech 21 The tongue has the power of life and death, and those who love it will eat its fruit. What do you think the message should be? Proverbs 26:17 New International Version (NIV) 17 Like one who grabs a stray dog by the ears is someone who rushes into a quarrel not their own. Acts 24:16 New International Version (NIV) 16 So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man. How can people accomplish what is written in scripture to maintain a Christian life? 1 Thessalonians 4:10-12 New International Version (NIV) 10 And in fact, you do love all of God’s family throughout Macedonia. Yet we urge you, brothers and sisters, to do so more and more, 11 and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life: You should mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we told you, 12 so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody. 2 Thessalonians 3:11-13 New International Version (NIV) 11 We hear that some among you are idle and disruptive. They are not busy; they are busybodies. 12 Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the food they eat. 13 And as for you, brothers and sisters, never tire of doing what is good. For you, that think the Watchtower has made human errors because the Watchtower purpose is to proclaim the good news throughout the world and is not a legal firm that has a huge legal department like the Catholics but rather relies on the expertise of motived witnesses, should remember one thing within the congregation. Exodus 23:1-2 New International Version (NIV) Laws of Justice and Mercy 23 “Do not spread false reports. Do not help a guilty person by being a malicious witness. 2 “Do not follow the crowd in doing wrong. When you give testimony in a lawsuit, do not pervert justice by siding with the crowd, Then as loyal Christians, we all win by first keeping the kingdom of Christ (Heaven), above reproach the right way.
  8. It’s true that secrecy is never a good thing. This is why the Watchtower is transparent about its policies and procedures. Hence, the “theme” I’m referring about, a “hidden” agenda that opposers claim, and some witnesses support, even though it’s a false assumption in their part. Therefore, no amount of criticism will change what are facts. Especially, in countries that have specific laws, the Watchtower adheres to and complies with. One good example is with Australia, 1. REPORTING OBLIGATIONS IN VICTORIA Crimes Act 1958 2. REPORTING OBLIGATIONS IN WESTERN AUSTRALIA Children and Community Services Act 2004, ss.124A, 124B 3. REPORTING OBLIGATIONS IN TASMANIA Children, Young Persons and Their Families Act 1997, ss. 3, 4, 13, 14. 4. REPORTING OBLIGATIONS IN SOUTH AUSTRALIA Children’s Protection Act 1993 (SA), ss. 6, 10, 11 5. REPORTING OBLIGATIONS IN QUEENSLAND Child Protection Act 1999, s.13E, 13F 6. REPORTING OBLIGATIONS IN THE NORTHERN TERRITORY Care and Protection of Children Act (NT), ss. 15, 16, 26 7. REPORTING OBLIGATIONS IN NEW SOUTH WALES Children and Young Persons (Care and Protection) Act 1998, ss. 23, 24, and 27 Crimes Act 1900, s. 316 8. REPORTING OBLIGATIONS IN AUSTRALIAN CAPITAL TERRITORY Children and Young People Act 2008, s.356 (2) Has this matter been or will be reported to the police or other authorities? If the victim is still a child (under 18), is he/she still in danger? If so, the Service Department will provide necessary direction to ensure the child’s protection Irrespective of the legal advice, advise the elders to pass on the following information to the victim, if he/she is an adult, or the child’s parent/s if the victim is still a minor: “Please understand that you have the absolute right to report this matter to the authorities if you want to and the elders will support you in whatever decision you make.” If the matter has been or will be reported to the authorities, the elders need to ensure that their actions do not interfere with any police investigation. Just because a victim persuaded a law firm, that things were kept secret or hidden to authorities, that assumption can easily be proven false. Unfortunately, the ARC was not the correct legal entity to have argued that difference as it did to reward their mistaken fact-finding mission. The good thing, everything will be revealed in its proper context in Australia’s highest court.
  9. The problem with everything legal, people don’t see the downside of the government’s action. It’s always the victim and the perpetrator. Then, vultures disguised as lawyer’s go after an institution without giving the failures of the government, and the responsibility they had to a certain situation any thought of their role and accountability. When a victim wants to hold the government accountable, they can’t. It’s protected. But it’s very easy for the government to pass laws to hold institutions accountable, but not the governmental institutions or departments. Sandusky is a good example of such governmental failures. Assistant Coach Mike McQueary was the first independent witness to say he personally saw Sandusky abusing a child in a football locker room shower in 2002. He also provided a firsthand account of how university officials failed to pursue legal action against the coach. When McQueary testified, he did not know about the 1998 incident, in which Sandusky admitted showering with an eleven-year-old boy. Although Penn State police and the Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare had investigated the claim in 1998, as in 2002 nothing of consequence was done about it. The Freeh report also made damaging claims against Joe Paterno. Paterno, Penn State Officials hid ‘Critical Facts’ Regarding Sandusky Abuse
  10. I wouldn't either. However, it is a consistent theme to suggest otherwise, without having full facts and the inability to do some honest research.
  11. I wouldn't claim that he didn't. It just means as far as you know, by visiting apostate sites, you can't confirm the claim. But, keep digging. 😉
  12. I don't think you will ever sell me on this ideology for everyone. If I am mistaken, a person by the name of AllenSmith34 was removed from here for far less than the person you speak of. So, forgive me for not buying what your selling. 🤔
  13. You know, you could be right since there are many variables to weigh in. The 70’s when people say the Watchtower was absent in seriously caring for the children within the organization. I believe the theme here is also consistent, that the Watchtower has NEVER made any recommendations toward child abuse. There are hundreds of examples to prove that assumption wrong. PROBATION On May 6, 1970, the congregation committee of the ___Unit, New York N.Y. , congregation, met to review the charges and the admittance of ____to indecent exposure of his sexual parts before____, the 15 year old daughter of his wife, ___. After hearing this matter in the presence of_____, the decision of the committee was as follows: Perhaps you should revisit that apostate site to see what else I might be mistaken on. It could be the word “probation” is used undeservingly. It also omits as a true constructive means on weighing in on actual facts.
  14. I will disagree with you on this one, TTH. There are too many assumptions given. I understand why you admire JWInsider. That is sad to read. If this person served at Bethel, this person could give you a better understanding of the Watchtower policies toward child abuse. The Watchtower has been consistent for decades to prove your understanding of this sensitive matter, wrong. If you are wrong, then it makes those you agree with wrong. A true witness would not allow disparaging the Watchtower for a mistaken ideology. The irony of this individual that I won’t mention anymore, brought into our consideration the BOE letters. Letters that screams internal correspondence to the Elders (Confidential). True, they can be found on the internet in violation of ethical and civil rights that the Watchtower now has to argue before the courts. Especially an ex-witness in Britain. While, I won’t express the unjust way, secular courts handle civil matters, the worst offender and hypocrisy does come from Australia. Ever since the ARC case came to light, witnesses have been to eager to condemn the Watchtower. Ex-JW’s embellished on it. People here state mistake were made and no honest witness can say otherwise. That is far from the truth. Even Bro. Knorr got to weigh in on a case about child abuse. A case, your good friend and confidante should be well aware of. Why has he kept silent? What is his motive? United States-September, 2 1970 “In a letter from: Brother Knorr, he states "If he leaves the city it will be best for you to find out where he will be going and the congregation that he will be assoe1at1ng with and then to notify that congregation concerning his probation. You can further state that he has been dismissed as a member of the bethel family for his course of action. May Jehovah's rich blessing go with you as you continue to look well to the interests of the kingdom and protect the organization.” Your brother and fellow servant, Canada-LB: LSB July 29, 1988 “Dear Brothers: Awake! has drawn to our attention the problem of sexual molestation of children (see January 22, 1985, pp. 3-10). It was appropriately described as a "growing horror." This is further evidence of the depravity of many in the world around us.-Rom. 1:20. These situations are rare, and we are glad that most of you will never encounter the problem. However, recognizing that such may come to your notice in your role as spiritual shepherds, we want to advise you of a legal responsibility that is now placed on ministers who learn of such abuse. Provincial law in all provinces of Canada requires that child abuse be reported to child welfare officials so that immediate steps can be taken to protect the children. Jehovah's Witnesses certainly support the objective of protecting children. United States-March 23, 1992 HELPING VICTIMS OF CHILD ABUSE Many children who have been continually violated by adults grow up with severe emotional scars and certainly need much loving attention. Thus, you will want to be conscious of treating such victims of abuse with much thoughtfulness and kindness. (See "Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock," page 17.) Such an attitude helps to assure the victim that you really care for him and that you are "like a hiding place from the wind and a place of concealment from the rainstorm." (Isa. 32:2) Like Jesus, we should be "tenderly Compassionate."-Eph. 4:32. One way you can show sincere interest is by being a good listener. James counseled: "Every man must be swift about hearing, slow about speaking." United Kingdom-January 30, 1992 Child Abuse Jehovah's people in no way condone crimes such as child abuse or endeavour to shield those committing offences of this nature. When elders receive reports of physical or sexual abuse of a child, they should contact the Society's Legal Desk immediately. Victims of such abuse need to be protected from further danger.-See "If the Worst Should Happen," Awake! January 22, 1985, page 8. As members of the community in which Caesar still acts as God's minister and hence still has a certain authority, all in the Christian congregation would want to consider their personal and moral responsibility to alert the appropriate authorities in cases where there has been committed or there exists a risk that there might be committed a serious criminal offence of this type (see ks91, page 138). In child abuse cases such authorities might include the family doctor, the Social Services, the NSPCC, or the police. Australia-August 1, 1995 Re: Protecting victims of child abuse Dear Brothers: We are pleased to outline below some guidelines that we hope will be helpful to you in protecting victims of child abuse and in dealing with a brother or sister in the congregation who has been guilty of sexually abusing a child. When a member of the congregation is accused of child molestation, the elders should contact the Society immediately. Some state’s make it mandatory that elders report an accusation to the proper authorities but other states do not. In those states where such is required, oftentimes the parent, the guardian, or the accused person himself can do the reporting. In this way confidentiality is not violated. Ecclesiastical privilege is not available in all states and where available it is restricted to special circumstances. Still, whether or not the accusation is reported to the authorities, when it is established that a member of the congregation is guilty of child abuse, appropriate steps should be taken in keeping with initial direction from the Society. It is important to first obtain the Society's direction to protect both the elders and the organization. Australia-December 20, 1998 Dear Brothers: We are here providing, for your future reference, information that was presented at the 15-hour supplementary course for congregation elders on certain serious matters. Child Molestation: The Society's letter to all bodies of elders dated May 1, 1997, page 2, paragraph 5, states: "[GJive the Society a report on anyone who is currently serving or who formerly served in a Society-appointed position in your congregation who is known to have been guilty of child molestation in the past. "Reports indicate that some elders think this direction does not apply if before his baptism the person sexually abused a child. However, even in such a situation, the elders should write the branch office. This is true even if what occurred was many years ago. If any body of elders has not yet reported such a matter, they should immediately do so. Furthermore, any correspondence put in the confidential congregation file about an individual accused of child molestation, proven or otherwise, should be marked "Do Not Destroy" and be kept indefinitely. United Kingdom-July 11, 2002 In recent weeks, the press in this country has focused attention on the way accusations of child abuse are handled by various religious organizations. Such reports may cause some sincere individuals to ask about the procedures followed by Jehovah’s Witnesses. Therefore, we believe that it will be beneficial to review with you our Bible-based position, so that you will “know how you ought to give an answer” to any who may inquire.—Colossians 4:6. Simply stated, we abhor the sexual abuse of children and will not protect any perpetrator of such repugnant acts from the consequences of his gross sin. (Romans 12:9) We expect the elders to investigate every allegation of child abuse. Even one abused child is one too many. However, in evaluating the evidence, What if someone is a proven child molester? The article “Let Us Abhor What is Wicked!” published in the January 1, 1997, issue of The Watchtower had this to say on page 29: “For the protection of our children, a man known to have been a child molester does not qualify for a responsible position in the congregation. Our position is that secular authorities deal with crime while elders deal with sin. To avoid a miscarriage of justice, elders must not interfere with, prevent, or impede any secular investigation into child abuse. Australia-LLH January 20, 2003 Many times when these matters are considered we think of the perpetrator, his personality and the privileges he may have lost when his sins have been exposed. Very little thought is given to the suffering and in many cases the irreparable damage done to the victim. Our hearts must go out to those suffering emotional, psychological and spiritual damage caused by the selfish conduct of others. United Kingdom-February 1, 2011 The protection of children is of the utmost importance to us. (Ps. 127:3; Matt. 18:4-6) Jehovah’s Witnesses abhor child abuse and we do not shield those committing offences of this nature. (Rom. 12:9) Child abuse may include physical, sexual and emotional abuse, or neglect, as defined by law. This policy serves as a guide and, as set out in point #11 of the policy, includes the direction to contact the branch office as soon as possible when elders learn of alleged child abuse. In such a case, the coordinator of the body of elders (or in his absence another elder) preferably with a second elder, should contact the Legal Department at the branch office, which will route you to the appropriate person. This should be done even if the report is unsupported and regardless of the age of the alleged victim or perpetrator now or at the time of the alleged abuse. Spiritual and legal advice given by the branch office is situation-specific. Therefore, in every case it is important that you contact the branch office immediately. Do not rely on past advice that may have been given regarding some other situation. Review carefully the Child Safeguarding Policy. I can go on and on. But as you can plainly see. The Watchtower for decades has been consistent when it comes to caring for the children and how sensitive matters should be conducted. This proves, all the allegations by each subject is, FALSE. The Watchtower has not erred, by placing “guidelines” so that those responsible can take the appropriate action within, secular law, or scriptural law. Have there been failures with Elders, yes? Some should have never been appointed if they knew, they couldn’t handle any matters brought before them with wisdom and discernment. Why did the ARC fail to submit these findings into their legal brief? Why do ex-JW’s refuse to see what’s before them? Why do witnesses continue to insinuate, when they don’t have the full facts? These simple illustrations, where there are dozens upon dozens of true facts, are well known. Hopefully, this will bring an end to the sultry rhetoric.
  15. Now, who’s making an assumption? As if I care what you think, and who you are, especially your sob story after downvoting the story of my relative girls. That just makes you a heartless and disgusting person. To me you are nobody. Yet, only your story should be heard. Once again, try to read before you leap into ignorance. Perhaps your advanced age gives you that condition. I was given the ability to see you for what you are by, the scriptural principle that you have demonstrated. Are you beyond redemption? Only God knows each heart. Are you a Christian, NO! Far from it, that’s a judgment you gave yourself. Therefore, when you make attempts of applying scripture, first learn it, and then apply it to yourself. Otherwise, you’re just wasting your time. Maybe a few years at Broadmoor Hospital will help, probably not, but it doesn’t hurt to try. 😉 As for the BOE letters. What part of “guideline” alludes you?
  16. Really, I don’t see it. You’re just a waste of time. I believe TTH made it to where he thinks you still have a viable soul. I don’t. You lost that right to call yourself a Christain. Therefore, you are once again a tax collector (Pagan). That’s why your mockery and inclinations are meaningless. Please! downvote me. I find your hypocrisy humorous. 😂
  17. In the book “Keep Yourselves in God’s Love (lv-E) 2008, it should be noted, page 223 is, in essence, referring to business disputes within the brotherhood as indicated in page 222. However, people that don’t have a copy of the 2008 book might have the 2011 copy, in which case the information is on page 285. There are also, versions from 2014, 2015, and 2016 in which case the information would be found in the appendix “Resolving Disputes in Business Matters.” This is why the following doesn’t apply and is not exempt anyone from criminal prosecution as the Watchtower has said for decades. However, just as with everything. The Watchtower has to print something specific in order for the Brotherhood to understand. In rare instances, one Christian might commit a serious crime against another —such as rape, assault, murder, or major theft. In such cases, it would not be unchristian to report the matter to the authorities, even though doing so might result in a court case or a criminal trial. The lack of personal discernment has always been a problem with the brotherhood. Enough to always want a scapegoat whenever convenient. A relative had her little girls molested by their father. This was taken not only to the Elders but to the local authority. This happened in the late 80’s early 90’s. The conclusion of the local authorities, there was insufficient evidence to prosecute. However, many misguided witnesses of today fail to realize, this relative was dealing with the laws of that time and the attitude of cops and prosecutors of that time. Back then, secular authority was dismissive of many things that they take into account now. This person remained an Elder until 2006 when the girls were able to speak with the local judicial committee where this person resided. They came to the conclusion the girls were credible enough to remove this person as Elder and never hold a position of congregational responsibility ever, within the organization. Meanwhile, they revisited the case in 2008 with the local authority, and the local authority decided to cite the original citation and refused to reopen the case. What does that say about local authority? In 2016, a law firm solicited the girls to have their claim taken up by the civil court. Of course, it’s unethical that a bunch of bloodthirsty law sharks would solicit anyone personally without a recommendation; they wanted the claim to go against the Watchtower as a claim of emotional distress. I was present in the girl’s office. I asked a simple question. If you believe the Watchtower is liable for emotional distress at the hands of their father, what about suing, the United States of America for inflicting the same emotional distress that secular government failed to provide as an adequate solution for the girls claim and rights. Ironically, the lawyers stated the US government couldn’t be held liable. That, in turn, prompted the girls to say “get out of our office.” They looked at me, and said, can you believe the hypocrisy and nerve of these guys. We can sue the Watchtower that played no role in our personal lives, but we can’t sue the United States of America for the same applied inference of emotional distress. Needless to say, now it’s that law firm that needs to contend with the girls for improper solicitation of service. “(b) A lawyer shall not solicit professional employment by live person-to-person contact when a significant motive for the lawyer’s doing so is the lawyer’s or law firm’s pecuniary gain, unless the contact is with a” A statute that is seldom referenced by ex-witnesses that get solicited by big corporate law firms. An ideology accepted at face value by the courts in the USA. It’s not a good thing, the Watchtower needs to grab people by the hand in order for them to do what is best for their incident. This is the problem that needs to be addressed, not just for the members but also those that have a congregational responsibility. The Watchtower publish “guideline” books for those responsible. It doesn’t specifically tell them what those people should do. That false narrative would give an impression the GB weighs in on every case brought before each congregation. That doesn’t happen. If it's not done with the secular authorities, why should it be done with the Watchtower? That means there are many members asking too much of the GB instead of using personal wisdom. That says more about the brotherhood than it does about the GB. Where’s the first century Christian logic in that. Some of us speak by experience, not out of ignorance. Some of us cite what someone else heard as an experience. Hearsay; is never a credible account, since a story can be changed by others to incite or promote. Too bad, this is a constant theme here for the sake of traffic and money, purposes. This is why 1 Corinthians 6:1-2 is cited by the Watchtower for business disputes. Lawsuits among Believers 1If any of you has a grievance against another, how dare he go to law before the unrighteous instead of before the saints! 2Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? “For Paul, the purpose of Christianity is to permeate the world, to influence and change it according to the norms of the gospel. But Paul notices that in Corinth the opposite is taking place. The world is entering the Christian community to conform it to worldly standards. Evidence of this is the matter of court cases that are not settled within the confines of the Christian community but are taken to worldly judges. The Christian brothers who take their cases to non-Christians are causing the church to be a laughingstock in the Gentile world.” The Greek for grievance (TEV’s “dispute”) is more general than in English. In some contexts, it may mean a business transaction. Here, however, the context requires the meaning “legal dispute” or “lawsuit.” Against a brother is literally “against another,” but the context indicates that “another Christian” (TEV) is the meaning here. One may also translate this as “another member of the church.” This is what the Brotherhood need to understand and apply to their personal lives. Know the difference. Between trivial, and serious and how to compartmentalize between the two. That is “each” individuals responsibility, not the Elders, not the Branch Office, not the legal department, not the Watchtower, YOU! Galatians 6:5-15 Now that the Watchtower has made it crystal clear, it won’t do much good for those that will find an alternative way to sue the Watchtower. Especially those that confuse the responsibility between a Judicial Committee, the legal system, and the word reproach.
  18. I see I see. The confusion is on the particulars. While you are referring to the first CHRISTAIN congregation my thought was more elaborate to the time. There has always been a Jerusalem governing body, before, during, and after Christ walked this earth. I was appealing to the governing body while Jesus was still alive. Now we're getting somewhere. Your reference is when the CHRISTAIN congregation was finally composed after the 120 anointed that ended comprising the first church of about 3000 thousand baptized members. Yes, that certainly would hold what the present day governing body function is. I believe after Judas was replaced by Matthias, James was appointed to head the church in Jerusalem. Then followed Paul after his dramatic conversion which was confirmed by James, Peter, and John as an apostle to the gentiles. Does this make Paul the 13th, apostle? I would imagine this is why the apostles being preeminent authorities to the first church, gave them the ability to anoint the first church elders. Instructed them the doctrine and gospel, the conduct of a true Christian; that is perhaps lost here, and back up their words by pairing scripture. I guess the same way the Watchtower under the guidance of Jehovah’s Witnesses has refined that to the better. It’s good there were sensible people like Rutherford, Knorr, and Fred. While the news grew, it became clear to those that headed the first church, there was a need to expand on the leadership role to newly formed churches throughout the cities. That, of course, was to maintain the standards that Christ taught. Yes, I don’t see any difference with how the Watchtower is handled today. I also knew that Fred Franz was referring to BOTH standards of leadership. We were not to conform ourselves to the prevailing governing body while Jesus was alive, but live our Christian life in unison with leaders capable of teaching what Christ left for us. Therefore, I never lumped those two issues together. The similar reason how the first Christian congregation leaders dealt with problems like in Samaria and Antioch. It’s amazing how the same thing can be achieved in modern times. To be living the past in modern times. This is why Fred took the presidency seriously. To be the mouthpiece for God and Christ. I guess that is why some foolish people misunderstood Fred, just like they did with Rutherford, and Russell before him. Mouthpiece, sole channel, etc. misunderstood nonsense comes to mind. Of course, administratively, there was a need for a governing body just as the first-century Christian congregation, but the presidency also dealt with other logistical needs. Unfortunately, it seems people just can’t seem to keep those 2 apart. Especially when tainted rhetoric and misapplied watchtower literature is produced as evidence. I could also see the apostasy of today with what was being developed in the second and third century. Matthew 13:24-30, 37-43, 2 Thessalonians 2 However, you must excuse me. I usually write things from memory. I don’t take 24 hours to research something or 2-3 days to respond. Enjoy your day, and say hi to your friend and admirer Butler. 😉
  19. Just curious. Wasn’t that Fred’s point. Not to have the present day governing body be as the first century, the governing body. It seems you have reservation with Fred’s ecclesiastical abilities. Does this reflect on the notion that you scrutinized the word doctoral? Meaning Fred had now biblical knowledge because he didn’t carry a degree. He was offered to attend a prestigious school of higher learning that he declined. However, which school of higher learning did Jesus attend? Now you can use Paul’s way to supplement his doctrinal treatises with detailed practical directions as to the conduct that should of necessity to, ensue on a belief in the doctrines propounded. Romans 12:6-7 In essence, a fallacy shown here by many as to the roles we all have by God’s Holy Spirit. Why else would there need to be a distinction in scripture? 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 New International Version (NIV) 4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work. Raymond lost his ability to function as a governing body member after he allowed his mind to be poisoned, by bad influence, plain and simple. He could no longer see scripture in a clear state of mind. Now, what does it mean on verse 10 about different kinds of tongues and in some Bibles, speaking in tongues? Doesn’t this relate to interpreting and understanding different languages, in order to communicate with foreign language speakers? Or does it mean to speak gibberish as taught by some within Christendom? Therefore, 1 Peter 4:10-11 confirms and disputes the misguided claim, this person “witness” offers as a rebuttal. 11 whoever speaks, as one who speaks oracles of God; whoever serves, as one who serves by the strength that God supplies-in order that in everything God may be glorified through Jesus Christ. To him belong glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. Another question. If you don't believe Raymond was as authoritive as Fred, did you personally know this family? or it is a rolling commentary in your part from having read Raymonds fairytale book?
  20. Wasn't this ultra persona😊 online a few days ago? However, I was referring to the rhetoric coming from certain people he disagrees with but doesn't go to the extreme of downvoting them. That's usually a clue. 😉
  21. Since you used a quoted text to make a contradictory view on what the text really means, can you explain how your misguided view just as Raymond was at the end for the Governing Body even though he saw it OK that one man could hold the same charge if a group couldn’t? Jeremiah 31:34, Hebrew 8:11, John 15:3-4 would be figured into 1 John 2:27 Where, would the dispensation of spiritual food, be compromised in your view? Where do you see the GB continue to teach those that have received God’s Holy Spirit other than to maintain their spirit from being compromised by this wicked system, and people like Butler, Srecko, witness, JWinsider, etc? Were you held by force to think the way you do? Just like you are free to say whatever you want, God uses the same freedom to keep his church clean. What scriptural bases can you offer that a rotten apple won’t spoil the barrel? Would you allow a Born Again in your house daily as to receive the gospel of the truth? If so, how would 1 John 2:27 be any different for them, and how could you see being able to hear that on a daily bases in your own home, without seeing you’re not functioning in all cylinders. It appears you have learned nothing about the definition of the word “abide” in order to give you clarity. I also don’t have a problem being downvoted, by a hypocrite. I believe that was my intent when I made the claim that you disagree with others without downvoting them. I can even go further to suggest you harbor disdain toward me. That just proves what you have become as, a none-Christian. This is why you have stepped into Raymond’s shoes and have gone beyond apostasy. If I had the information about the local police department you emailed, I would email them myself to show them your hypocrisy, and blackened heart. I would show them the distortions you make with scripture, and the hatred you harbor toward the Watchtower GB. Care to give me their email address? Unfortunately, this is a realistic side of people no government got to see. Therefore, I don’t mind being in a hot kitchen. It’s just the bad cooking that leaves a bad aftertaste. Perhaps you’re used to it, I’m not. Once again, I encourage you to downvote me. I enjoy the hypocrisy and double standard you display.
  22. Then why aren't you harping on it, as you do with others 😂
  23. Butler, I noticed you don’t downvote people like Anna, JWinsider, TrueTom, James Thomas Rook, etc. even though you disagree with them, and at times have a strong opinion of them. I can honestly state you are being obtuse. Do yourself a favor and grow up. I don't mean spiritually since you have already crossed the line on that, but mentally. I’ll help you with this down vote. Bear witness that your actions mean nothing other than being a stain in your life. I feel sorry for you.
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