AlanF

I've told you several times now, you ignorant moron: the fact that SOME conspiracies exist does not indicate that YOUR favorite conspiracy theories exist.

You haven't tried any form of proof whatsoever. Lying moron.

I agree that the Trinity doctrine is nonsensical. But no more so than much else in the Bible. I mean, really: The world of humans is messed up because a talking snake convinced a naked woman to eat a piece of fruit? The earth is a flat, circular disk shaped like a pizza pie and swimming in giant blob of primeval water? Birds come in the fossil record before any land animals? Etc. etc. etc.? Once again: your take on evolution goes like this: "I can't believe everything got here by chance. Therefore the Bible God exists." But why the Bible God? Why not Brahma? Why not Zeus? Why not the Flying Spaghetti Monster? I'll tell you why: you were trained to believe in the Bible God from infancy by your culture. You fail to realize, along with most other god-botherers, that your emotional condition is irrelevant to the truth of the universe. Facts don't care if you're uncomfortable with them. Facts don't care if your faith is trashed by them.

Your world is one of conspiracy theories and other sorts of nonsense. Your brain has trained itself to ignore everything outside that nonsensical little world. Much like the way Flat Earthers and your fellow Young-Earth Creationists do.

Whatever you read is filtered by your first seeing if it contradicts Mommy Watchtower's traditions. Example: I suggested you read one of Richard Dawkins' books. Your response: "I won't read it because he believes in aliens seeding life on earth". Which is a lie. Any and all excuses to refuse to look at facts.

Prove that my disproof of your Bible God is wrong. Then you might have something besides simple-minded ad hominems.

Prove that my disproof of the Bible God is wrong. Then you might have other than complete nonsense to spout.

LOL! Simpleminded ad hominems are your only responses. Don't you know that stubbornness in the face of facts is as the sin of witchcraft?

TrueTomHarley said: LOL! Pure projection. The fact that your God doesn't exist is not important? The fact that the Bible is merely the writings of men is not important? How totally Orwellian! The reason you don't focus on my proofs is that you can't debunk them. But you never do. If you do, you know that you'll have a hard time remaining a happy, oblivious JW. Oh, that you're not smart enough to debunk anything? Precisely my point. The fact that your God is imaginary provides the underpinnings only of folly and a useless existence, always hoping for but never finding your own Nirvana. I'm merely pointing out facts. What you do with them is your lookout. LOL! Clueless as always. But Jesus did not lie -- unlike you, most JW apologists, and above all -- your masters in New York. The Psalm is wrong. As Richard Dawkins wrote in The God Delusion: << The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. >> You know perfectly well that there are plenty of OT passages that prove Dawkins' words right. Wrong. He does not exist. Perhaps a Deistic god exists, but not the Bible God. I do not troll. I set forth facts and factual arguments. I get the same satisfaction out of seeing previously deceived people throw off the deceit as anyone does who is concerned about those "skinned and thrown about" by false shepherds. Wrong in your usual fashion. I call names and such ONLY when the shoe fits -- when people lie, when they reject facts and arguments without looking at them, and when they persist in rationalizing the lies and bad conduct of their religious leaders. As I said, I've helped well over a hundred people quit the JW cult. They all thanked me. Ah, so giving people false goals is a worthy task, eh? Yet Jesus condemned people like your JW leaders as false prophets fit to be destroyed. What I look to in the future is realistic rather than the comfortable but imaginary myths of JWs and similar charlatans. Most people don't like raw reality. Too bad.

Precisely why the JW Governing Body rages against "apostates" -- critics who tell the truth about "The Truth". That's why so many individual JWs are afraid to read any material not coming from the Watchtower Society. One way or another they've gotten a taste of valid criticism, understand on some level that it really is valid, realize that if "The Truth" is not the truth they must reject the leadership of those who promulgate false things in God's name, and become afraid to take the consequences. Most JWs have their entire social structure tied up with things Watchtower and don't want to chance losing their friends and families, even at the cost of living with the knowledge that they do not worship "the God of truth". That's another consequence of being steeped in Orwellian thinking.

Cult members never know they're in a cult. As for your "Orwellian dystopia", that's far from a JW teaching -- you're an apostate.

That's all you can manage because your brain is too mucked up to function properly.

Good thoughts. But they're not shared by JW leadership. They're power-hungry busybodies all too eager to police the lives of their dumb followers. That's one reason I never wanted a position like elder or servant. I live and let live, even in my mental view of others. Of course, in forums like this designed for debate, expressing dissent is par for the course. It's a false cry of "foul" when those criticized complain.

Excellent comments! To which I will add: To the typical JW "truth" has a meaning different from what everyone else understands. To a JW it means "whatever is current in Watchtower teaching". Thus yesterday the "faithful slave" was the entire earthwide body of "anointed ones", but today it's the "Governing Body". Yesterday it was "the truth" that "the saints" were resurrected to heaven in 1881, while today that teaching is considered apostasy. The JW baptismal vows, adopted around 1985, contain a legally binding promise for the baptized person to believe and obey all things designated "current teaching" by the various Watchtower corporations. Thus there is no unique "truth" since those teachings can change and do change with the winds of current events. Most JWs are well aware that if Watchtower leaders decided that the Trinity is "current teaching", they would go along with it. ANY teaching is up for grabs in the JW world. Once a new teaching is adopted, the JW community forgets the old and mostly forgets that the old ever existed. Hence the phrase "the Orwellian world of Jehovah's Witnesses".

You deliberately ignore the fact that I call morons morons ONLY after I present facts that they reject out of hand. You are a prime example.

Such hypocrisy! When critics like me do that, snowflakes like you scream Persecution!

The main flaw in your 'argument' is that neither you nor any other JW defender has been willing or able to disprove any of the debunkings of your favorite doctrines that I and other JW critics have published. This thread is a good example. Can you prove that your Bible God exists? No. Can you disprove that "God is love" and "God is a monster" are BOTH true statements? No. Can you present arguments that The Argument From Ignorance is proof that the Bible God exists, and is not some other Creator god like, say, the Hindu Brahma? No. Can you prove the Bible is inspired by an omniscient God when it so clearly describes the earth as a flat, circular disk topped by a solid metal-shield-like expanse, all surrounded by an "ocean" of primeval waters? No. Is the Bible really inspired by The Omniscient Creator when it has the order of creation of birds and land animals backwards? No. You might just as well believe the moon is made of cheddar cheese if the Bible said so.

Ssuuuuurrrre! Just as Russell warned about 1914, Rutherford warned about 1925, Franz warned about 1975, the Society and many JWs warned about 2000 and are now doing so via Real Soon Now. JW critics have compared the Watchtower organization to Orwell's Utopia in Nineteen Eighty-Four for decades. For example, The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses (Heather and Gary Botting, Heritage, 1984) did so 37 years ago. I did so in the early 1990s (https://critiquesonthewatchtower.org/old-articles/2006/02/thinking-ability-and-watchtower.html https://critiquesonthewatchtower.org/old-articles/2006/02/orwell-revisited.html). So have many other JW critics. As usual you have no idea what you're talking about.

You've committed another fallacy: allowing only two possibilities when many exist. The Watchtower Society teaches many false things in God's name. Doing so makes the responsible ones in it false prophets. The Bible itself tells people to pay no attention to false prophets. And of course, the more fundamental problem is that the Bible God does not exist. Therefore anyone who claims to speak in his name is at best a charlatan. People don't like to be suckers.

Indeed. Few organizations have more of the Orwellian spirit than the Watchtower religion.

Self-serving pop psychology with a large helping of brainless religiosity.

LOL! Like I envy Benito Trumpolini.

Yes, you call presenting facts "name calling". That's stupid even for a JW apologist and Young-Earth Creationist.

Here's the latest of many:

The Bible God and his complement do not exist -- I've proved it. And you JW apologists can't touch my proof.