AlanF

Isaiah 40:22, along with Daniel 4, Matthew 4:8 and other scriptures.

LOL! Displaying your infantile ignorance yet again. You have NO understanding even of the stuff Tour said. He does NOT "build cells" you moron.

Just another form of Creationist religious doctrine. So-called "Intelligent Design" was so declared by conservative U.S. Judge John E. Jones III in the 2004 "creation trial" in Dover, Pennsylvania, where the school board had tried to require teaching ID. The Discovery Institute which promotes it refused to defend its doctrines in the trial, knowing perfectly well that they would not stand up under questioning by competent scientists. The then-darling of the ID people, Michael Behe, was shown to be not only incompetent as a biologist, but also a liar, having grossly misrepresented science books and journals. Behe actually admitted that he viewed astrology as a legitimate scientific theory. Behe, of course, accepts Evolution but believes it was God-guided.
Judge Jones made a number of clear statements in his final decision, including (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmiller_v._Dover_Area_School_District):
<<
... we conclude that the religious nature of ID [intelligent design] would be readily apparent to an objective observer, adult or child.
... the writings of leading ID proponents reveal that the designer postulated by their argument is the God of Christianity.
The overwhelming evidence at trial established that ID is a religious view, a mere re-labeling of creationism, and not a scientific theory. 
... we find that the secular purposes claimed by the Board amount to a pretext for the Board's real purpose, which was to promote religion in the public school classroom, in violation of the Establishment Clause.
>>
The so-called Christians who precipitated the trial were also shown up as liars, the Judge saying, among other criticisms:
<<
... the Dover School Board members' testimony, which was marked by selective memories and outright lies under oath ...
The citizens of the Dover area were poorly served by the members of the Board who voted for the ID Policy. It is ironic that several of these individuals, who so staunchly and proudly touted their religious convictions in public, would time and again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the real purpose behind the ID Policy.
The breathtaking inanity of the Board's decision is evident when considered against the factual backdrop which has now been fully revealed through this trial.
>>
Other observations:
<<
After the trial, there were calls for the defendants, accused of not presenting their case honestly, to be put on trial for committing perjury. "Witnesses either testified inconsistently, or lied outright under oath on several occasions," Jones wrote. "The inescapable truth is that both [Alan] Bonsell and [William] Buckingham lied at their January 3, 2005 depositions. ... Bonsell repeatedly failed to testify in a truthful manner. ... Defendants have unceasingly attempted in vain to distance themselves from their own actions and statements, which culminated in repetitious, untruthful testimony." An editorial in the York Daily Record described their behavior as both ironic and sinful, saying that the "unintelligent designers of this fiasco should not walk away unscathed." Judge Jones recommended to the US Attorney's office that the school board members be investigated for perjury.
>>
Just as the Dover School board Christians showed themselves unrepentant liars, so have the JW apologists posting in this thread. Arauna lied about Richard Dawkins but refuses to admit it. She and True Tom Harley claimed that prominent mathematicians have proved that something to do with Evolution is mathematically impossible, but cannot provide links to such 'disproofs' or even supporting arguments. And on and on.
At its root, 'Intelligent Design' is both a Creationist religious doctrine masquerading as real science, combined with the Argument From Ignorance ("I can't understand how this happened, so it didn't"), also known as The Argument From Personal Incredulity. Its proponents are known liars, and most of the major financial backers of its most prominent defender, the Discovery Institute, are extreme Right-Wing Christians whose goal is the establishment of a Christian Theocratic Government in the U.S. and elsewhere.
Jehovah's Witnesses who go along with ID and such are thus supporting "Christendom" and its doctrines, and violating Watchtower precepts against Interfaith -- just as much as are those who go along with the Young-Earth Creationism of  Christian Fundamentalists like Evangelicals and Pentecostals.
 

It's immaterial to me that you're an apostate from Mommy Watchtower. But you know it, and everyone else knows it.
I've never seen such gross hypocrisy from any JW before!

Look, moron: I just supplied you with some links that prove my point. You're no more my ally than you are a scientist.
LOL! Lame.
Look at the link I gave you, moron.
I don't care about your opinion.
Read my post, look at the links, and try to manage to understand, you moron.
Far from lame. You sound just like Republican senators excusing Trumpolini for inciting insurrection.
Meh. Just as lame as everything else you write.

Continuing the infantile comments.

So gullible you are. A perfect illustration of confirmation bias combined with Dunning-Kruger ignorance.

Reminds me of the "goldilocks epochs" when there were no natural disasters for millions of years so that the "soup" was stable for the millions of mutations to lead to beneficial selections. Hitting the jackpot every time. 

I've already spit out my coffee a few times.
Arauna is a weird combination of ageing, obsolete JW and young-earth creationist. Even though Mommy Watchtower explicitly downgraded YECism as "unscriptural and unscientific" forty years ago, she's stuck in what she learned as a Watchtower drone sixty years ago. 

By faith one can believe that the moon is made of cheddar cheese. One can believe that the earth is shaped like a pizza pie.
On the other hand, if supposedly God-inspired writings contradict demonstrable reality,  it should be evident that those writings are mere manmade speculations.

The overall article concerns general evolution in the Galapagos, not just what happened in the 1970s-1980s situation, where a drought resulted in finches with larger beak sizes, which later reverted to the normal average size when the drought ended. Evolution has gone on for some 6 million years, so of course mutation and the other effects listed in Table 2 apply. But mutation cannot have been a factor in the drought situation, because it happened way too fast, and then reversed. Mutations do not generally reverse.

Creationist simulations in no way represent reality. Pigs can fly in simulations.
The earth has never been stable.
As for maths, go right ahead and present some here.
Not even wrong.

I've already spit out my coffee a few times.
Arauna is a weird combination of ageing, obsolete JW and young-earth creationist. Even though Mommy Watchtower explicitly downgraded YECism as "unscriptural and unscientific" forty years ago, she's stuck in what she learned as a Watchtower drone sixty years ago. 

There's going to be a small stream coming down Annie's everything if you don't stop, Arauna 🤣🤣🤣 You're killing me!

Wrong. Would you like to see the physical calculations that disprove your claim?
Remember that rock is about 5-8 times heavier than water, and mountains and depressions flooded by water would do the opposite of what you think.

More nonsense. Mutations occur by chance. Evolution by natural selection and other mechanisms that select among mutations is not chance. You're talking out of your ass.

Nonsense. Hundreds of millions of fossils have been found over the last 200 years alone. Here's one where a Velociraptor and Protoceratops killed one another:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22530090-800-stunning-fossils-dinosaur-death-match/
More Creationist nonsense. Here is just one list of verified transitional fossils:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html
In the fossil record.
Again, the fact that you refuse to look says a great deal about you.
Wrong. Read Prothero's book.
The same can be said for Creationist claptrap. Except there is a huge amount of fossil and genetic evidence for Evolution. But the only evidence that Creationists put forth is some form of The Argument From Personal Incredulity -- "I can't believe it's true so it isn't!"

So your argument appears to be: we can only know the Bible is true or its true meaning when other people - the 'right' people - tell us it is true and explain the meaning to us. Is that correct?
I see. Are you saying the 'true anointed remnant' are not men and women, and they have no tune to call?

On Whether Noah's Flood Is Physically Possible
Consider the amount of water needed to flood the entire earth to a depth sufficient to cover the highest mountains. What depth would that be?
The Watchtower Society quoted a source that estimated how deep the water would be if the earth were completely smooth (Is the Bible Really the Word of God?, 1969, p. 37):
<< If all the irregularities on the earth's surface were to be smoothed out, both above and below the water, so that there were no dents or holes anywhere, no land would show at all. The ocean would cover the entire globe to a depth of 8,000 feet [2,400 meters]! >>
If such a smooth earth had just one mountain during the Flood, it would have to be less than 2,400 meters high for the water to cover it. More mountains or depressions of physically reasonable size would change the figures, but not significantly.
Thus, pre-Flood mountains must have been less than about 2,400 meters high for the Flood waters to cover them.
That means that all of today's mountains over 2,400 meters must have formed after Noah's Flood. But is this geologically possible? No.
The science of Plate Tectonics along with standard geological dating show that plenty of mountains and mountain ranges are tens of millions of years old, and have been wearing down a lot longer than that.
For example, the Himalayas are at least 20 million years old and rose as a result of the Indian Plate colliding with the Asian Plate.
The Hawaiian Island chain is another example. The Big Island is as much as one million years old and rises as much as 13,800 feet (4,200 meters) above sea level (https://www.lovebigisland.com/hawaii-blog/hawaii-volcano-history/). That is already much higher than any possible pre-Flood mountain. But that's not the whole story: the Island is actually the tallest volcano in the world measured from its base on the sea floor -- some 33,000 feet (10,000 meters, but about 15,000 meters if sea floor sinking due to the mountain's weight is taken into account). That means that if the earth had been completely smooth during Noah's Flood, the Big Island would have had to rise at least 25,000 feet (7,600 meters) above the sea floor in the some 4,400 years since the Flood. The Big Island is about 150 kilometers across at sea level and more than 200 kilometers at its base. It is also the biggest volcano in volume, something like 65,000 cubic miles (213,000 cubic kilometers https://pubs.geoscienceworld.org/gsa/geosphere/article/9/5/1348/132675/Modeling-volcano-growth-on-the-Island-of-Hawaii).
For purposes of argument, let's assume that the Big Island grew to its present size in 2,000 years. That allows some 2,400 years for all of its plant, animal, bird and insect life to accumulate. If it took 2,000 years for 213,000 cubic kilometers of lava to accumulate, that works out to about 106 cubic kilometers per year. That's a lot of lava! We can compare that to the eruption of the Laki volcano in Iceland in 1783/1784. In eight months it spewed some 14 cubic kilometers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laki) of lava, killing about 1/4 of the population of Iceland, lowering global temperature significantly (http://volcano.oregonstate.edu/laki-iceland-1783) and producing widespread famine. The 1815 eruption of Tambora in Indonesia, the biggest in recorded history, produced similar effects such as the 1816 "year without a summer" in Europe and America.
Now, what effects on the earth's climate would volcanic eruptions ten times bigger than the Laki eruption lasting 2,000 years have? Very big effects, obviously. Yet world history between 2,400 BCE and 400 BCE records no such big effects.
The obvious conclusion is that the Big Island of Hawaii did not erupt for 2,000 years.
When, then, did the Big Island grow to its present size?
Again the obvious conclusion is that it so grew during the last million years, just as geologists have found.
Far more could be said about the Hawaiian Island chain, such as the 80 million year old hotspot track showing the growth and decline of dozens of volcanic islands, where the chain of Emperor Seamounts tracks west-northwest and north-northwest for some 6,200 kilometers and disappears under the Kamchatka Peninsula.
Thus, Noah's Flood is demonstrated to be physically impossible just by the geological history of Hawaii.

Faith is by definition belief without evidence. Without evidence, one can 'believe' anything at all -- astrology, scientology, space alien abductions, etc.
The question I examined is not whether one can believe in fairy tales, but whether there is physical evidence for a recent global Flood, and whether specific physical disproofs are valid. Hence, Ann O'Maly's challenge.
The idea of a recent global Flood has logical difficulties. Why would a God who could kill 185,000 Assyrians in one night commit massive overkill by a global Flood that wiped out nearly all life -- life that had nothing to do with "wicked men"? It's like using a hydrogen bomb to swat a fly. One who believes such things must believe that his God is a murderous nutjob.
 

Hm. Your argument doesn't fly. If we play the 'faith and miracles' card, and God is not a liar, why would he miraculously fake the planet-wide geological record to make it appear like there was no global flood if there really had been a global flood? 

Just to emphasize that the issue here is whether or not a global flood happened c. 4,400 years ago. 
https://ncse.ngo/yes-noahs-flood-may-have-happened-not-over-whole-earth
 

On Whether Noah's Flood Is Physically Possible
Consider the amount of water needed to flood the entire earth to a depth sufficient to cover the highest mountains. What depth would that be?
The Watchtower Society quoted a source that estimated how deep the water would be if the earth were completely smooth (Is the Bible Really the Word of God?, 1969, p. 37):
<< If all the irregularities on the earth's surface were to be smoothed out, both above and below the water, so that there were no dents or holes anywhere, no land would show at all. The ocean would cover the entire globe to a depth of 8,000 feet [2,400 meters]! >>
If such a smooth earth had just one mountain during the Flood, it would have to be less than 2,400 meters high for the water to cover it. More mountains or depressions of physically reasonable size would change the figures, but not significantly.
Thus, pre-Flood mountains must have been less than about 2,400 meters high for the Flood waters to cover them.
That means that all of today's mountains over 2,400 meters must have formed after Noah's Flood. But is this geologically possible? No.
The science of Plate Tectonics along with standard geological dating show that plenty of mountains and mountain ranges are tens of millions of years old, and have been wearing down a lot longer than that.
For example, the Himalayas are at least 20 million years old and rose as a result of the Indian Plate colliding with the Asian Plate.
The Hawaiian Island chain is another example. The Big Island is as much as one million years old and rises as much as 13,800 feet (4,200 meters) above sea level (https://www.lovebigisland.com/hawaii-blog/hawaii-volcano-history/). That is already much higher than any possible pre-Flood mountain. But that's not the whole story: the Island is actually the tallest volcano in the world measured from its base on the sea floor -- some 33,000 feet (10,000 meters, but about 15,000 meters if sea floor sinking due to the mountain's weight is taken into account). That means that if the earth had been completely smooth during Noah's Flood, the Big Island would have had to rise at least 25,000 feet (7,600 meters) above the sea floor in the some 4,400 years since the Flood. The Big Island is about 150 kilometers across at sea level and more than 200 kilometers at its base. It is also the biggest volcano in volume, something like 65,000 cubic miles (213,000 cubic kilometers https://pubs.geoscienceworld.org/gsa/geosphere/article/9/5/1348/132675/Modeling-volcano-growth-on-the-Island-of-Hawaii).
For purposes of argument, let's assume that the Big Island grew to its present size in 2,000 years. That allows some 2,400 years for all of its plant, animal, bird and insect life to accumulate. If it took 2,000 years for 213,000 cubic kilometers of lava to accumulate, that works out to about 106 cubic kilometers per year. That's a lot of lava! We can compare that to the eruption of the Laki volcano in Iceland in 1783/1784. In eight months it spewed some 14 cubic kilometers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laki) of lava, killing about 1/4 of the population of Iceland, lowering global temperature significantly (http://volcano.oregonstate.edu/laki-iceland-1783) and producing widespread famine. The 1815 eruption of Tambora in Indonesia, the biggest in recorded history, produced similar effects such as the 1816 "year without a summer" in Europe and America.
Now, what effects on the earth's climate would volcanic eruptions ten times bigger than the Laki eruption lasting 2,000 years have? Very big effects, obviously. Yet world history between 2,400 BCE and 400 BCE records no such big effects.
The obvious conclusion is that the Big Island of Hawaii did not erupt for 2,000 years.
When, then, did the Big Island grow to its present size?
Again the obvious conclusion is that it so grew during the last million years, just as geologists have found.
Far more could be said about the Hawaiian Island chain, such as the 80 million year old hotspot track showing the growth and decline of dozens of volcanic islands, where the chain of Emperor Seamounts tracks west-northwest and north-northwest for some 6,200 kilometers and disappears under the Kamchatka Peninsula.
Thus, Noah's Flood is demonstrated to be physically impossible just by the geological history of Hawaii.

On Whether Noah's Flood Is Physically Possible
Consider the amount of water needed to flood the entire earth to a depth sufficient to cover the highest mountains. What depth would that be?
The Watchtower Society quoted a source that estimated how deep the water would be if the earth were completely smooth (Is the Bible Really the Word of God?, 1969, p. 37):
<< If all the irregularities on the earth's surface were to be smoothed out, both above and below the water, so that there were no dents or holes anywhere, no land would show at all. The ocean would cover the entire globe to a depth of 8,000 feet [2,400 meters]! >>
If such a smooth earth had just one mountain during the Flood, it would have to be less than 2,400 meters high for the water to cover it. More mountains or depressions of physically reasonable size would change the figures, but not significantly.
Thus, pre-Flood mountains must have been less than about 2,400 meters high for the Flood waters to cover them.
That means that all of today's mountains over 2,400 meters must have formed after Noah's Flood. But is this geologically possible? No.
The science of Plate Tectonics along with standard geological dating show that plenty of mountains and mountain ranges are tens of millions of years old, and have been wearing down a lot longer than that.
For example, the Himalayas are at least 20 million years old and rose as a result of the Indian Plate colliding with the Asian Plate.
The Hawaiian Island chain is another example. The Big Island is as much as one million years old and rises as much as 13,800 feet (4,200 meters) above sea level (https://www.lovebigisland.com/hawaii-blog/hawaii-volcano-history/). That is already much higher than any possible pre-Flood mountain. But that's not the whole story: the Island is actually the tallest volcano in the world measured from its base on the sea floor -- some 33,000 feet (10,000 meters, but about 15,000 meters if sea floor sinking due to the mountain's weight is taken into account). That means that if the earth had been completely smooth during Noah's Flood, the Big Island would have had to rise at least 25,000 feet (7,600 meters) above the sea floor in the some 4,400 years since the Flood. The Big Island is about 150 kilometers across at sea level and more than 200 kilometers at its base. It is also the biggest volcano in volume, something like 65,000 cubic miles (213,000 cubic kilometers https://pubs.geoscienceworld.org/gsa/geosphere/article/9/5/1348/132675/Modeling-volcano-growth-on-the-Island-of-Hawaii).
For purposes of argument, let's assume that the Big Island grew to its present size in 2,000 years. That allows some 2,400 years for all of its plant, animal, bird and insect life to accumulate. If it took 2,000 years for 213,000 cubic kilometers of lava to accumulate, that works out to about 106 cubic kilometers per year. That's a lot of lava! We can compare that to the eruption of the Laki volcano in Iceland in 1783/1784. In eight months it spewed some 14 cubic kilometers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laki) of lava, killing about 1/4 of the population of Iceland, lowering global temperature significantly (http://volcano.oregonstate.edu/laki-iceland-1783) and producing widespread famine. The 1815 eruption of Tambora in Indonesia, the biggest in recorded history, produced similar effects such as the 1816 "year without a summer" in Europe and America.
Now, what effects on the earth's climate would volcanic eruptions ten times bigger than the Laki eruption lasting 2,000 years have? Very big effects, obviously. Yet world history between 2,400 BCE and 400 BCE records no such big effects.
The obvious conclusion is that the Big Island of Hawaii did not erupt for 2,000 years.
When, then, did the Big Island grow to its present size?
Again the obvious conclusion is that it so grew during the last million years, just as geologists have found.
Far more could be said about the Hawaiian Island chain, such as the 80 million year old hotspot track showing the growth and decline of dozens of volcanic islands, where the chain of Emperor Seamounts tracks west-northwest and north-northwest for some 6,200 kilometers and disappears under the Kamchatka Peninsula.
Thus, Noah's Flood is demonstrated to be physically impossible just by the geological history of Hawaii.

Nor does Arauna.