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Everything posted by JOHN BUTLER

  1. I do find it kinda' funny that JW's love to talk about billions of people being removed / destroyed / killed / murdered at Armageddon. Billions of people. And for what ? Well JW's say it's for not serving God. But they will also say it's for not being a baptised JW. Well we do know for sure that God either deliberately had, or deliberately allowed, the destruction of Jerusalem in circa 70 C E, and for what ? Well the Bible shows us it was for not serving God properly, and for killing God's son. BUT when I suggest that the Governing Body should be removed or destroyed, oh dear, the JW's they get really upset ya know. Governing Body = 8 men. Jerusalem = how many, men, women and children, thousands of them. But oh dear, now it would be murder. So what was it back then ? Your see JW's live in a dream world, wrapped up in cotton wool, they just cannot face the real world. The Governing Body do not serve God properly. That is clearly visible to anyone that honestly wants to see it. The Governing Body are destroying JW Org, and if JW Org is God's true Organisation then the GB are deliberately working against God and against God's intentions. Humans that deliberately work against God and cause problems for God do not last long on this Earth. The Bible shows much proof of this, such as those that opposed Moses. I am expecting the GB to be removed, one way or another. But only if God really wants to use the JW Org / Watchtower soc for His own purposes. If God does not want to use those Orgs then it would seem sensible for God to set up a new Org for His purposes. The only problem with the GB being 'removed' is that JW's will call it a 'sign of the times' and 'persecution', but if God causes the removal then I'm sure He will put them straight. Those people that say that the GB cannot be removed / destroyed, are those people that worship the GB. And those people that worship the GB may probably need removing too. The world is wicked, it belongs to Satan. The Earth is wonderful and it belongs to Almighty God. For God to save this Earth and for Him to save a few humans too, drastic things have to take place. Drastic things have to take place.
  2. I'll give you one rude word for that comment James, Bullshit. I do not normally swear on here but your comment is just an excuse. The comment also shows a lack of faith in Almighty God. Remembering that the JW Org is nothing like the Nation of Israel. In that Nation most people were born into it and had to live under the LAW. In JW Org most people are NOT born into it, they are volunteers. They, supposedly, want to be there. So what you should have is 8.5 million people willing to serve God properly in what SHOULD BE an inspired organisation, led by inspired Anointed brothers. By saying that the GB / JW Org / Watchtower Soc 'are operated beyond their design capacity,' you are saying that it is not God's organisations and not inspired or even guided by God's Holy Spirit. So how does it make it 'the only game in town', when it's not even in the running ? It would have to be God's chosen Organisation, being inspired / guided / run by God's Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ, who would be operating through willing, humble, God fearing, true, honest human servants. Oh dear multi fail by JW Org.
  3. James would you be kind enough to give me 10 good reasons why you are still one of them ?
  4. Those at the top should have firstly refused to keep it all quiet. And should have demanded a meeting to do Bible based research to see where the scriptural backing came from. Of course there was no scriptural backing so the whole thing should have been turned around immediately. If the top brass were too scared to take action then the Elders of the congregations should have seen through it, and totally refused to carry it out. If the Elders were as you pretend, being guided by Bible principles, then how could they keep such disgusting things, dangerous things, unloving things, things that dishonour God, secret ?
  5. Quote @Anna If that's how you look at it. I thought our every thought and motivation comes from following the Bible. Are you really that naive ? But please tell all of us here, who do you mean by OUR in your sentence ? You obviously can't be including the GB, or the Lawyers, or any other top administration, or the Elders. That only leaves the basic congregants in each congregation................... As for your second comment there, it is a bit dumb. if elders became mandated reporters, every time they phoned Legal for advice, they would be dictated by "central command" to report. They would not need to phone Legal for advice, just report it directly to Police or Authorities. And if congregants knew beforehand that it would be reported to those authorities then it would be up to the conscience of the person that had the information or up to the victim to tell the Elders or not. As it is now the Elders are protecting the GB and Its Org and hiding the pedophile from the Police and authorities if they do not report it immediately. But you know that anyway, because that's what this whole problem is all about.
  6. Regarding TTH always bringing in 'the world' to every situation, this time the Boy scouts. In the world, when a government minister or a big business boss does something really bad, they either 'step down' from their position voluntarily or are requested to step down from their position of power. So if TTH thinks the JW Org is equal to the world, then maybe the GB should step down voluntarily or be told to do so.
  7. In March 1997, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, the nonprofit organization that oversees the Jehovah’s Witnesses, sent a letter to each of its 10,883 U.S. congregations, and to many more congregations worldwide. The organization was concerned about the legal risk posed by possible child molesters within its ranks. The letter laid out instructions on how to deal with a known predator: Write a detailed report answering 12 questions—Was this a onetime occurrence, or did the accused have a history of child molestation? How is the accused viewed within the community? Does anyone else know about the abuse?—and mail it to Watchtower’s headquarters in a special blue envelope. Keep a copy of the report in your congregation’s confidential file, the instructions continued, and do not share it with anyone. IN MARCH 1997. THOSE AT THE TOP KNEW. And then all the Elders in the USA knew. That's when those that knew should have acted. Acted to serve Almighty God, not to serve the GB / Wt Soc / JW Org. Quote @James Thomas Rook Jr. " Every real problem we have in the Truth is DIRECTLY because of the policies of HOW disfellowshipping is done. " I find it funny that you still call it the 'truth'. Most of it is a long way from true. Much of it is lies and deceit. Some of it is totally disgusting. Andas I said before it is not just the fault of the GB and top brass, it is just as much the fault of everyone that followed orders that were obviously going against God's principles and love.
  8. @James Thomas Rook Jr. Deeply ashamed for the reputation of Jehovah, yes, but the Brotherhood are part of the problem. I always relate things to Hitler and Germany. Hitler could not have done what he did ON HIS OWN. The GB and the Lawyers could not be doing what they are doing ON THEIR OWN. I left the JW Org because of the CSA Earthwide in the JW Org. If all JW's had done the same, if all contributions had stopped, or if JW's did their own research and then made it known in their congregations and took some form of action, then the GB and their Lawyers would have had far less power and far more to worry about. If all Elders had complained and stuck together and took some action Earthwide. But no. JW's are either puppets, or too frightened to say or do anything. I know Jehovah will sort it all out, or start a new Org. But will He and Christ find a lot of guilty Bros and Sis in doing so. It is such a shame in what should be an Org dedicated to God. Every person in the ORG should be dedicated to serving Almighty God, but many are not.
  9. Fantastic news. Perhaps Almighty God will cleanse the JW Org by removing the GB and replacing them, and removing the lawyers too. If God wants that database handed over it will be. I agree with James on one thing 'I am deeply ashamed for the reputation of Jehovah' Does anyone on here really think this is good for Almighty God ? Is it good for the preaching of the GOOD NEWS ? And do you really think Armageddon is close ? Ah, maybe you think Armageddon will get the GB/JW Org out of this mess. I think LUKE 17 v 1 fits very well here. “It is unavoidable that causes for stumbling should come. Nevertheless, woe to the one through whom they come!" @Anna & @TrueTomHarley and others, please get your heads out of the sand and see the true reality of your GB and it's Org. The truth is Almighty God has to either cleanse the JW Org, or, start a new one. And the JW Org does have some truth in it, deeply hidden but it's there.
  10. Quote : You are a loon, John, wildly overstating all of your points, Here again Tom @TrueTomHarley uses this mental problem thing. He just has no other answer. Tom you know that what I have written above is all true. Even IF I was mentally disturbed, as you pretend, it would not make my statements less true. As for the Devil not being that bad, who are you trying to kid ? Didn't the devil get prophets to give false prophecy ? Didn't the devil get the Israelites to offer their children in the fire to Molech ? The Nation of Israel served the devil so much that they were punished for it many times. And in the end the Jews murdered GOD'S SON JESUS CHRIST. So don't try to tell me the Devil isn't that bad.
  11. @TrueTomHarley You certainly are an author of fairy tales and you are good at it too. Keep it up please it gives me plenty to laugh at after a morning of hard work. I'm back at that big house again doing some physical work as a favour to its owner. Well I'm totally baffled spiritually, out of the frying pan and into the fire it seems. BUT staying in the frying pan would have got me cooked that's for sure. So I'm thinking I might as well be helpful in some way to other people, as it seems I cannot help myself right now. BUT. Lets quote your words :- What surprises me as I go through the sequential schedule of Bible reading, now focused on the letters of Paul, is how well they anticipate current “anti-cultist” complaints of being brainwashed, misled, duped, and so forth. What would appear to be a brand new scenario is just history recycled—put on steroids by modern viral methods of communication. Given that the following was said then, when the only communication was word-of-mouth, it is not at all surprising that it would be so prolific today: OK. Catholics could say the same, and any other 'brand' of Christian. Mormons maybe. However you are pretending that it is the same, But it isn't. “We have wronged no one, we have corrupted no one, we have taken advantage of no one,” says the apostle at 2 Corinthians 7:2, as though the accusation of those things was commonplace. “Nevertheless, you say, I was “crafty” and I caught you “by trickery,” he says again at 2 Corinthians 12:16. For sure, Solomon had a point: “There is nothing new under the sun.” (Eccles 1:9) The Bible Students / GB / JW Org / W/t cannot truthfully say the above. Promising Armageddon in 1914, suggesting Armageddon in 1975, saying 'Millions now living will never die' (just as the Devil told Eve she would not die), was crafty, trickery, and the continued rumours that Armageddon is 'so close' and 'that only those inside the JW Org will be saved', when at the same time a member of the Governing Body said that 'they might not be the only channel of communication God is using', well you work it out for yourself. They protest another sort of discipline as well. “Just as I encouraged you to stay in Ephesus when I was about to go to Macedonia, so I do now, in order for you to command certain ones not to teach different doctrine, nor to pay attention to false stories and to genealogies. Such things end up in nothing useful but merely give rise to speculations rather than providing anything from God in connection with faith.” False stories, um, 'this generation will not pass away', oh dear it didn't happen. So make up another story, the generation isn't one generation , it's two overlapping generations. Do “apostates” proliferate today, as though something new? You may have to break this down a bit Tom. First of all it depends what YOU mean as an apostate. Are you talking about those who have found fault with the GB and JW Org / W/t ? If so you cannot truly compare it to first century Christians. In the first century it would probably have been the Jews that were used to living under Law and Jewish customs. But now you are comparing that with ex-JW's that are used to living under the JW rules. The early Christian way was a totally new way of living to the Jews. But if you are calling ex-JW's apostates then those ex-JW's know what life is like as a JW. Totally different circumstances. Why ? Because ex-JWs are looking at the GB / JWOrg / W/t and comparing it to God's written word the Bible / Bible standards. Let's go back to this :- “We have wronged no one, we have corrupted no one, we have taken advantage of no one,” says the apostle at 2 Corinthians 7:2, I only have to write three letters here . C, S, A. Tom and others you KNOW that the GB / JW Org / W/t is in trouble in, Australia, America, Canada, UK, Netherlands, and I'm probably not completely up to date on any others. Now if only one third of the accusations are true that is still a lot of Pedophilia in the JW Org, and still a lot of mishandling of 'justice for victims' from a scriptural viewpoint. Something about 'looking after widows and orphans' etc.... We could mention also about baptism and how the JW Org makes it more than just confirming dedication to God through Christ, but includes becoming part of the 'club' and obeying GB rules. (But that is a totally different topic). Having their mind on earthly things” is where its at today, and there are endless people who obsess over petty freedoms at the expense of totally missing the real ones Petty freedoms, but why petty restrictions ? The suit and tie, the Beard problem. Why put in place restrictions that are TOTALLY NOT SCRIPTURAL ? And who gives authority to those that make these petty restrictions ? That brings us back once again to this :- “We have wronged no one, we have corrupted no one, we have taken advantage of no one,” says the apostle at 2 Corinthians 7:2 The GB have stolen the recognition that ALL Anointed are the Faithful and Discreet Slave class. The GB have exalted themselves above the other Anointed, Luke 14, v11.... The GB have strongly hinted at the instruction that the rest of the Anointed should not get in touch with each others , but should remain in subjection to the GB. So here I have given proof that what Paul speaks/writes about is in no way similar to the problems in the JW Org today. The ones that Tom calls apostates will vary as all people are individuals. But Tom seems to need to think that apostates have deserted God and Christ. No Tom, many have just woken up to the falseness of the GB and it's two orgs. Once again I will end by saying that God may totally cleanse the JW Org and then use it, or God may start a new organisation of truthful Anointed ones. Sorry, I forgot one of the most important points too. Tom is comparing totally UNINSPIRED MEN therefore leading an uninspired organisation, to the Early Christian organisation which was full of INSPIRED MEN INCLUDING PAUL.
  12. What example, oh yes, that Armageddon would be in 1914, then oh no, it would be in 1975, then oh no we must say it will be soon as we need to keep the money rolling in. And, this generation will not pass away, but oh no, it didn't happen we have to say something else, um we must say it will be OVERLAPPING GENERATIONS, even though we have no idea really. Then of course, you must not use blood, um well maybe you can use parts of blood, um yes maybe you can use lots and lots of different parts of blood, and maybe possibly one day we will say that you can use full blood. There are some of the EXAMPLES you have been set. Set by a GB that call themselves the Faithful and Discreet slave, but have no proof of it and they even admit to not being INSPIRED although they say they are Anointed, but anointed by what we don't quite know yet .
  13. Wow they wore suits and ties back then did they ? Well I'm in shorts and a T shirt right now as temperature is a tad warm here in Devon England. And if I were to go to a meeting at KH I would wear light coloured trousers and an open neck light coloured shirt. If you think God wants you to truss yourself up like a chicken for the oven, so be it, that's your choice. Everyone is an individual if they want to be or if they are allowed to be. In JW Org though people are not allowed to speak their own thoughts so they become as one group, not in serving God, but in serving the GB and its Org. The Elders no longer have thoughts or feelings, they have become robots. They obey the GB masters. By the way I was up this morning at 7am, walking the seafront at 8am in shorts and T shirt, great exercise. So yes I'm an individual as i can now choose how I look and what i do and what I say. But if you enjoy being ruled over by MEN so be it, be happy not serving God, just serving your GB masters.
  14. When both were known to be wrong in the late 1800's the membership was quite low and money coming in was also quite low. The idea was to attract more members to push up contributions. If they enforced stricter rules it would restrict those willing to become members, so restrict income. Also there was probably enough opposition at that time for the new members, from their families or 'friends', so it would have imposed further burden on them. But there comes a time when either conscience knocks on the door, or, people are questioned for allowing such things to take place, as with CSA accusations now. In the 1970's membership was obviously a lot higher, the JW company was a lot richer, there were more families in the religion so maybe less opposition, and those at the top could then be more forceful with rules. And the ones that are admitting it now were not the ones that committed those sins against God, so it's easier to write about what others did wrong as these ones don't have to take the blame.
  15. Make your excuses for them if it pleases you @Anna They did not ban it at first as it would have lost them many members and that would have lost them many $$$$$$. It's all about the money and the power. They were wise enough to wait, but they knew in the late 1800's. How gullible are you @Anna ?
  16. Poor old @TrueTomHarley has to try to group people together. Even though he adds 'as individuals', he still starts with a group of people all of one type. I don't know Srecko's personal information and I would not ask him, but as for me, I have a wife and a son that live 'at home' with me. They are enough company for me thanks. I do not need to surround myself at home or online with a group of people. I've just bought myself a new MP3 player with the biggest 'cans' (headphones) I could get, and I go walking along the riverside and then along the seafront all on my own. I walk past people as if they are just obstructions, I dodge round them all. People here in the UK are also fat and they get in the way, but I squeeze my slim body past them all. As for the idea that "Witnesses as a people have a much greater diversity of friends as regards race, social-economic, nationality, & educational letters, then do non-Witnesses." That is probably wishful thinking. Witnesses do not seem to actually have any friends, just brothers and sisters. A friend is someone that can be relied upon for support and help, no matter what the circumstances. Not so with the bro's and sis, who desert people at the slightest whim. The fact that the JW Org is earthwide does not make all those people your friends. That's a bit like having a million friends on Facebook, they are not real friends. Poor Tom is still living in that dream world of his, and he won't back down, which is funny as he condemned me for not backing down on things. If you treat things as typical patterns it is because you don't want to 'see' the individual. You are frightened to think of individuals having a mind and thoughts of their own, because JW's are not allowed to have a mind and thoughts of their own.
  17. I think it's pretty simple really. He's saying that it makes no difference what the president does, it should not affect the JW / GB decision. Unless you are going by 'traditions of men' of course .
  18. This had become a kind of cliche for experiences given from the assemblies. You would always hear someone say that they were learning about the truth, but that they had a beard and didn't like to dress in a suit and tie . . . and then . . . voila! . . . one day this person will show up at the Hall, and to everyone's surprise . . . he will be clean-shaven. The audience would even clap at this point, as if it were a bigger turning point than their baptism. Wow brainwashing at its best. Um, Jesus said about cleaning the inside of the bowl or dish first. Shaving and putting on a suit and tie mean nothing, it just impresses naive people. It matter not if a person wears and open neck shirt and casual smart trousers. And it matters not if a man has a beard. And in fact it matters not if a lady wears trousers designed for ladies, because they are not men's clothing. Lots of ladies here in UK congregations now wear leggings under dresses in fact. But in the JW Org its all about dictatorship. It's not about showing God, as God sees into your heart. It's all about pleasing the Elders and the higher ups..
  19. I wonder if that is a racist comment Every person on this earth is different. Defining people by their country of origin is not good. I'm way out and wild man.
  20. @TrueTomHarley They could always do it, but they might come in for counsel and be kept from what Witnesses call “privileges”—MS, elder, pioneer, and so forth. OK, let's look at this one sentence which Tom seems to think is casually funny. Let's start with the problem of Elders withholding 'privileges' due to their personal preferences. This is not in order of importance. 1. It is not showing Christian love. 2. it is going beyond the things written, as there is NO scriptural basis for it. . 3. It is a cause for stumbling. 4. It would be restricting the Preaching of the Good News for No good reason. 5. It would be taking over the conscience of another person, dictating to them though for no good reason. 6. It would be ignoring scripture, such as the one about the straw and the rafter. And the oneat Luke 17 v 1&2 Now you may say that the Edler is acting on instructions from higher up, in which case it becomes more serious because those higher up should be more spiritually mature and able to see things with a good Christian attitude and conscience.
  21. Regarding tobacco : God's kingdom Rules Page 111 para 12 & 13 And Smoking banned in 1973 Regarding christmas : God's Kingdom Rules page 101 para 8 & page 102 para 9 @Anna i hope this is to your satisfaction.
  22. Ok be picky if you like. They allowed smoking until 1970. Well 1973 actually it seems.
  23. @TrueTomHarley The only reason you think of me as being unhinged is so that it makes you feel easier about my comments. To use the excuse that you think someone has a mental problem, just because they tell the truth and you don't like it, well that's pretty poor Tom. But if it makes your life easier then ok go for it. JW Insider. Now is he still a JW ? I think so. Hence if he brings up a situation he does not want it to look too serious for the JW Org. 'that he regards is quite rare' does not mean it actually is 'quite rare' it just means that is his opinion. PUT NOT YOUR TRUST IN EARTHLING MAN. As for the CSA thing. In my opinion it is easier for me to relate to such things that others have suffered as i have suffered similar things. It's not about me Tom, it's about ALL THOSE THAT HAVE SUFFERED CSA AND OTHER ABUSES IN THE JW ORG.. But as I've said before most people just see it as collateral damage... The comments i see as funny are funny to me. The reason most are funny is because they are only a person's opinion, and in most cases are nowhere near true. So you see i have a sense of humour. i don't always moan about comments i laugh at some. As for Srecko, i think he does fantastically well with his English as it is not his first language. And maybe he has a similar sense of humour to me. I have a comment on my FB page somewhere and it says 'The first thing you have to know about me is that i am not you'. Do you get the sense of that comment Tom ? Stop judging me because i am not you. I do not think like you, act like you or even want to be like you Tom.
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