JOHN BUTLER

In the Armed forces in UK and USA there are rules WRITTEN DOWN for soldiers to follow strictly. Yet it has been proved that in many cases those soldiers did not follow the rules. It is also the same in the JW Org. However in the JW Org, it would seem as if the elders are told not to follow the rules that are written down. The GB believe they have the right to tell lies and they call it spiritual warfare. So what is the point of them writing down rules which they know they will deliberately break. The point is, for people like BtK and Space Merchant to point to the written rules and say 'Look i told you so'. How blind are those people ? Anyone can write rules, but it does not mean anyone will live by them.

@Anna Quote "it was not what the elders said, but it was what the Bible said." Yes love that. But it has never said in the Bible that men have to wear a suit and tie. Imagine Jesus getting to the sea shore and saying to those fishermen ' Guys I would have let you be my followers but you are not wearing a suit and tie' And back with the beards thing too. ' You guys have beards, you cannot follow me and preach'. . And I'm sure there are a few more such things. I was even told by an old brother, an Elder in fact, that years before paisley ties were forbidden. In my last congregation if an Elder 'told me off' for anything, i would say show me three scriptures to back up what you are saying. It came from the idea that the Org use to teach repetition for emphasis... Quote, The funny thing is, they blame the org.. Maybe it's because Elders make the worst parents sometimes. (even involved in CSA) And other Elders will not take notice of a child if said child is the child of an Elder. So the child cannot get help from anyone. By the way, I'm glad you had a good childhood. Mine was horrible, with a wicked mother committing adultery and her 'boyfriend' nearly drowning my dad in the family pond. My dad suffered with TB (and had one of his lungs collapsed so my brother tells me). Then the children's home episode. Dad died aged 49 when i was around 20. So of course my outlook is 'slightly' different to yours.

Yes probably. In the same book that said they knew Christmas was wrong but kept on celebrating it at Bethal until 1926 ish.

Luke 17 v 1&2.

Yes and to think they let congregants smoke tobacco into the 1970's without a problem, even though they knew it was totally wrong in the late 1800's. But no beards, just to prove they were the boss. It's called dictatorship, nothing else. to quote TTH " Though nowhere forbidden by scripture or Bible principles, no "rule" was applied with more vigor than the "no beard" rule, " Dictatorship Tom. Domineering at it's best.

BTK says "God would have no problem “rebuking” the Watchtower just as Jesus rebuked those in conflict with God’s commandants." Now maybe God or Christ is punishing your GB / JW Org / Wt because of the CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE being allowed to go on and be kept hidden in those places. And maybe God or christ is punishing your GB / JW Org / Wt because the GB are misusing scripture by pretending to be the Faithful and discreet slave, and for exalting themselves above those of the Anointed Earthwide. For sure your GB and both Orgs have brought God's name into shame and disrepute by the Child Sexual Abuse situation EARTHWIDE in the Orgs. JW Lawyers have proved to be liars and totally dishonest and without love or feeling for victims, so I'm sure that is totally against God, Christ and scripture. How anyone can dare to condemn me but at the same time give praise to the GB and those two Orgs, it makes me laugh..

@Anna Quote "In any case, the mind boggles as to why a teenager would prefer living on the streets and sofa surfing to living at home abiding by a few rules until they are able to leave home and fend for themselves properly." Answer : Because that is the real world. If you had a good childhood then you probs will not understand, but if you had a very strict JW upbringing then you might. A lot of teenagers do not want to go to the meetings and do not want to do the door to door ministry. They want to have fun. If they are at school five days a week being bullied by both teachers and other pupils, then they want to blow off steam at the weekends, not be bullied by domineering JW parents. And if they are at work 5 days a week, then likewise. When our son left school we gave him two years 'freedom'. We didn't pester him to find a job to pay us money, we didn't even tell him what time to get out of bed in the morning. The reason was he was so badly bullied at senior school that he was almost a total wreck. The bullying was caught on security camera one time and the police were called in. The bully boys were suspended from school for a while but nothing else happened and when they returned it started again. So we gave our son two years to recover from it all. It worked, he gradually opened up to us more and found new friends He's fine now. But a lot of JW parents, ones that we know well, are not so loving or understanding to their children. Some JW parents are 'Elders and wifes'. That is even worse for the children as those children are expected to be 'extra special' good little JW's. Like I keep telling you lot, but you don't want to believe it, I've known the JW Org / Watchtower Soc since I was around 20 or younger, and I'm 70 this October. So 50 years of it all. In different congregations, in different towns/cities. So what i say I say from first hand experience, not just read in JW literature or seen on JW videos or on 'apostate' websites... And I'm a total individual, with my own thoughts, which seems to frighten TTH and others, as they always pretend I'm part of a group of something or other.

Well @TrueTomHarley & @Anna are both in 'M.J's Neverland Ranch USA. Living on something strange and must be totally high. Why ? Because they have NO IDEA of the realities of life. Either that or they are both hiding in some JW Cave and being told exactly what to say and when to say it. They are like twin puppets, copying each other's words. It's written in JW 1991 W/t so it must be so. How blind are you Tom ? Wasn't there a court case recently where a JW Lawyer told complete lies about that very situation. @Anna I don't know if you are a 20 year old or a 60 year old but I do have a feeling you do not have much experience of real life in the real world. Have you always been hidden in the JW Org, kept behind that fence, not allowed to do any research or even to go out and see real life for yourself ? 'It's like a jungle out there, sometimes i wonder how i keep from going under.' (Just a bit of rap or hip hop, but oh so true) By the way I know that my brother TOLD HIS YOUNGEST DAUGHTER TO GET OUT. And i know she lived on the streets for a while. Then she went what's known as sofa surfing, staying at different friends houses, sleeping on their sofa. One problem is that children get baptised very young and then regret it. When they then get to teenage years they don't want to follow through on serving the JW Org so they turn against it. Then parents throw them out. That is the real world. Oh yes and TTH back on the mentally unwell thing again, calling me 'unhinged'. That really is a JW problem now, that JW's have been brainwashed into using this 'mentally unwell' insult to people that refuse to bow down to the GB and its JW Org. It all started with the GB saying that some people that say they are anointed are mentally unwell. Now it has become a key phrase of JW's toward anyone that happens to disagree with the GB and it's Org. That really does prove brainwashing or puppet fashion of JW's.

Quote TTH. Besides your statement the end is a long long ways off, have you now come to embrace the Trinity and hellfire for the miscreants? Well this is sooo funny too. Someone on my FB Ex-JW page has today asked me the same questions ? Is this normal JW training then ? To try to insult people by asking such stupid questions. Do you have nothing better to offer Tom ? How about TRUTH ? Oh of course the JW Org knows nothing about that does it ?

He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god. This has to be the GB of JW Org. They have exalted themselves above every other human on this earth. Above all of the true Anointed. Even to a point above Jesus Christ.

Quote @TrueTomHarley This does not happen. I would not say that it never ever happens Tom you are sooo funny. Srecko saw it too. And as for you talking about a JW made / GB made video, well what use is that ? The GB / JW org make videos for their own purposes, to twist reality. Children get thrown out of homes regularly, but it should not be that way with JW's. Even my brother who is an Elder threw his youngest daughter out. She was actually homeless on the streets for a while. She is now happily married, out of the Org, and doing fine. When judgement comes, who knows, Jesus has the authority to judge not us. My 25 year old son is a Punk rocker, mohawk hairstyle, leather jacket with rude words all over it, he even gets two pairs of jeans of different colours and swaps one leg from each to make strange looking jeans, he's getting good at sewing now :). My point is he mixes with a lot of people that live on the streets and many of them were thrown out as teenagers. it's a common thing here in UK, so maybe JW's don't worry about it either, they just do it. But when you push a person out into the world you push them into fighting for survival as best they can. A homeless person here in UK, with no address, cannot get a job and cannot claim any benefit. The common thing is, the boys deal drugs, the girls sell themselves, sex for cash. Would you chuck you children out on the streets to live like that ?

@Anna There is a 'lady' here in Sidmouth Devon, (here where i live) and she has dreadlocks and beard growth. She is rather rotund and scruffily dressed. She's an antiques dealer so we have known her through the trade, she speaks quite posh. She immediately came to mind when you mentioned 'sisters with a beard'. But back on topic. I had to laugh at your sentences 2 and 3. Quote 2. You can do what you want. 3. You will just be limited in what privileges you get in some congregations This falls apart for two reasons. 1. it is like blackmail. 2. the system should be exactly the same in every congregation earthwide. Otherwise the Org is basing it's decisions on the 'traditions of men' There is no scriptural reason why any man in JW Org should not have a beard. So as i say it then becomes 'traditions of men'.

Do you think Jesus was kind to the pharisees? Matthew 23:33 Do you think Jesus was kind to the merchants in the temple? Matthew 21:13 Billy the Kid makes a good example here about the GB and JW Org. Thanks Billy for showing us just how Jesus would deal with both the GB and JW Org. The GB and the rest of the hierarchy act just as the Pharisees did and also use the JW Org / W/t soc to gain money and real estate just as those merchants did. Fine examples Billy, keep it up.

It would be a week in the late 1960's before I got totally 'drawn into' the Jehovah's Witnesses. A nice young lady from Ireland came to live in a bedsit in the house right next door to the one I lived in. The landlord owned both houses and both front doors were always open. Of course each person had the key to their own room, so no one could just walk in, but it was nice when i got invited in. Unfortunately she was a Catholic and I was just beginning to learn about Jehovah, so the 'friendship' didn't last more than a year, but it was lovely whilst it did last.

Don't mention cancer, I'm trying not to think about it.

Some of us cannot afford such luxury. I'm happy to get a bit of bacon. @Anna You see how some guys use this world Love of the world and it's food.

Tom shows his fear of truth by trying to hide truth with sarcasm.

But this brings me back to the point of whether that talk is given exactly the same at every convention. However I do agree that humans are much more important than animals, and God and Christ are much more important than humans.

@AnnaI would say 99.9% of the human race love the things of the world, including most JW's. Remember it was not that long ago I was one. JW's here in the UK are still having new houses built for them, still working long hours, still buying new cars. Still having parties, rather strange fancy dress parties actually, Elders dressing up as Batman and Incredible Hulk and putting photos up on their Facebook pages. No different to people of the world. Those things are not bad of course but what I'm saying is that most JW's here in the UK are 'still using the world to the full'. It would be stupid to try to pretend that JW's are much different to anyone else in their daily lives. I've mentioned one young Elder before that spends a lot of time in his local pub and rides a bicycle to the pub but has to push the bike home due to his not being able to balance it to ride it home. I think it funny in a way, but I'm just relating it here to 'things of the world'. As for @TrueTomHarley well no hope I suppose. He dodges the points I make because he knows they are true. And poor old Tom is caught up with GB propaganda about the GB being equal to MOSES. Tom Tom, we've had this discussion so many times before. MOSES WAS INSPIRED OF GOD AND PROVED IT. The GB are not inspired of God and admit it. Mose had direct contact with God and was given direct instruction BY GOD. The GB pretend to be the F&DS but CANNOT PROVE IT. AND, by their MISTAKES you will know they are frauds. Does that not make any sense to you ? I know that God will have an honest loving organisation before the judgement comes. But at this moment in time the JW Org is not that honest loving organisation, and the GB are not serving God in an honest loving way. When an organisation has to use threats, lies and scaremongering to keep it's congregants, and has to make up rules that go beyond the scriptures (just as the Pharisees did), and has to 'clean the outside of the dish or bowl' but not the inside, then it is obviously not God's true organisation.

It is enough just to know that there will be a judgement time. And it is enough to know that God will decide when. Anything beyond that goes beyond the things written. Keep on the watch does not mean make false announcements. It does not mean frighten people into staying in an organisation. People should be content with the 'mana', God's word the Bible. People should not need threats or blackmail. As the song goes 'Where is the love?'

This above is so funny, just as funny as the overlapping generations. A JW excuse to keep people in the Org. Tell them the 'end is nigh' and also tell them they have to be a baptised JW to survive. Scaremongering and blackmail rolled into one. Well I suppose it does keep the $$$$$$ rolling in.

I do love that word 'ALLOWED'. it shows the control the GB have over the congregants . Totally unChristian to 'Lord it over the congregation' but there ya go, that is the nature of the beasts (GB / JW Org).

Why would anyone have a beard ban ? Does it mean something special ? I think it is strange for white people to have dreadlocks but each to their own idea. But to ban a growth of hair which is a natural thing. Surely it is the shaving of hair that is unnatural ? Although I would not want a beard for myself.

I suppose TTH thinks he is funny. Keep writing those books Tom. Perhaps Tom thinks he's on a level with his GB. A bit of fame, a lot of followers, and writing rubbish which it seems some folks are empty headed enough to read and believe.

Meow