JOHN BUTLER

Child Report : Billy the Kid, does not play well with others.

That is totally a Billy the Kid comment. So is Tom, Billy ? Look how he /whomever twists what i have said. That is definitely Billy the Kid. The Devil IS Satan and Satan IS the Devil, but this comments tries to pretend he isn't . The question is WHY ? Billy I think you have dropped a big clanger here.

@Space Merchant I cannot understand your logic, so please explain to me you thinking. Are you saying that there are many different types of Christian churches / religions / groups, that are serving God properly ? Are you saying that a person does not need to belong to one type of Christian group ? You seem to find some good things in many different religions. So do you think that God or Christ works through many different Christian groups / religions ? Do you also think that God or Christ will give spiritual guidance to a person that is not part of a religious group ? Do you think that if a person prays to God for spiritual guidance to gain understanding from the Bible, that God through Christ will give that person a better understanding of His written word ? Or do you feel that a person must be part of a particular religious group ? It would be nice to know your thought on these things. Thank you, John

Each to their own thinking Tom. I'll be happy that the specialist I've got to see at hospital has had some higher education. To know that those guys have some idea about cancer etc, well it gives one a bit of hope. And those guys that design and build the big scanners that can examine the whole body without actually tearing it apart, well you know I think higher education helped them a bit. There is still a lot of good that comes from higher education Tom. Even bloodless surgery must have involved higher education. The 'cell salvage' machines.

Oh how sad, old Tom is back on that idea of higher education causing world troubles. Tom, the scriptures make is soooooo clear who is to blame for the troubles here on this earth. The devil offered all the power / authority here on earth to Jesus. The devil has had that authority for thousands of years. So why oh why you go on about higher education being the big problem i do not know. Well actually I have a slight idea why. Higher Education means that people can think for themselves. They can do their own research. They can make their own decisions. I get the feeling you do not like that Tom. Does it make you feel uneasy. Well it probably makes your GB feel very uneasy. People can now do their own research on the internet which makes it much quicker and easier. People can ask questions and find answers. That's why the increase in the JW Org is in lower educated countries.

Quote @JW Insider Instead of just guessing, a person might be able to get closer to the answer just by asking Instead of just quoting the bit you want why not quote the whole phrase. What I actually wrote. Despite what SM and others may say. SM wasn't and isn't a JW. He just uses info he finds. I wasn't asking SM if he was a JW, I was stating that he wasn't / isn't a JW, and therefore only uses info he finds, and he has no personal experience on the matters. Then he questions the FACT that i have 'hands on' experience of JW Org / Society from the 1970's onward. Yes here in the UK only but at least it is direct first hand knowledge, not just 'something i read online'.

SM is a Storm Trooper. I think you have the wrong guy.

To quote SM Which goes back to what I had said here and months ago. Some JWs misunderstood and did as they did while others did not, Which kinda supports what i said. Many Jehovah's Witnesses did believe that Armageddon was happening in 1975.

Many Jehovah's Witnesses did believe that Armageddon was happening in 1975 Despite what SM and others may say. SM wasn't and isn't a JW. He just uses info he finds. My own brother is an Elder and was a JW from the 1960's onward. He personally knows, or knew at that time, people that sold their houses, gave up businesses, and did full time ministry. He has related to me, of cases whereby people were almost suicidal with worry, because they had given up everything in a material sense, so when it didn't happen they were penniless and some were homeless. The Org may not have put it into print, but they deliberately spread the rumours about it happening.

I see that Kid is twisting things again. Pretending it was me that was talking about the 'soul'. Poor poor Kid, he does seem to have a problem. He cannot cope with getting things wrong, even though he does it all the time. Kid, the soul is the actual person, as in, Adam came to be a living soul. The spirit is the 'life force' which returns to God when a person dies. The scriptures tell us that God even knows when a sparrow falls to the ground. Matthew 10 v 29 Two sparrows sell for a coin of small value, do they not? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground without your Father’s knowledge. Oh buy the way Kid, hell is not a fiery burning place, in case you didn't know. And Gehenna is symbolic, wicked people do not go there. The dead are conscious of NOTHING AT ALL.

Has Billy the Kid actually ever said, here on this forum, that he is a baptised Jehovah's Witness / one of Jehovah's Witnesses ? I honestly do not think BtK is a JW. He has used 'scripture' that the GB / Org has said is not reliable. He constantly uses the word hell. He has a bad attitude and makes a habit of judging others. He even condemn people to death by his judgement. He has little understanding of scripture. He constantly uses worldly information and false religion to back up his poor arguments. But, if he is a JW then in Tom's view he is not a good one. Quote Tom Good JWs will not be here. They will have more regard for the preference of the organization not to get into cat fights with those who oppose. I'll just pick up on one thing here, that is Tom's concern about 'the organisation', not about God's view or Christ's view on this matter.

@James Thomas Rook Jr. " Thinking we are a monolith is a mistake, even though current management is continually trying to make us one. " There is a strange way of thinking by some protesters (of which I'm not) that if you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem. I can sort of understand that thinking as I was told by an elder one day, 'If you are not serving Jehovah then you are serving the devil'. So James, it could be that, you are either part of the solution or part of the problem, and if you support the GB and it's JW Org / Wt, then it would seem you are part of the problem. The power of the GB and its Orgs (plural), is not from God, it is from its congregation and their donations. If the donations stopped and its congregation no longer supported them, the whole thing would collapse. Those 8 men and their legal buddies would be worthless. Remember James, NONE OF IT IS INSPIRED OF GOD.

" whatever the hell " Wow very 'Christian' attitude, or not . And you always try to twist things Billy kid. You called me immature. So i said 'Your opinions of me are of no consequence.' Then you try to reverse that by saying You flatter yourself if you think your opinion means anything to me. You are sooooooooooooo strange BK. As for open forum. WAKE UP BK, this is an open forum and I am saying exactly what i want to say. As for consequences, "am i bovvered " "am I really bovvered" (quote from a telly programme). For a pretend JW you give yourself away by your attitude Kiddy. What a wombat you really are

Billy K says about me, " By the way, the only thing you can demonstrate in immaturity." Whereupon immediately Tom says about me "John, you are such a two-year-old." And these guys are not working together ? I find you both so funny. I do not wish to be seen as 'mature' in the eyes of 'men'. Have you not read, I love no one, I trust no one, so therefore I need respect from no one. Your opinions of me are of no consequence. Your behavior before God and Christ are important if you say that you are serving God through Christ. So maybe you should spend your time on self examination, but it matters not to me how you spend your time. What I'm finding funny from both of these guys is the fact that each of them will make a comment, and when i pick up on the comment, they almost deny saying it. James suggests I screen shot it all, but I need no evidence as it's not seriously important. It is just funny for the time it happens. Tom, if i had to judge, i would say that neither of you are good cops or good JW's. But Christ will judge you both when the time comes. Billy tells me I'm long lost and due for destruction. I notice too that JTR Jr takes up the torch and says that you are all brothers and therefore all friends. Yes that is true, and that is one reason so much is hidden in the JW org. Brothers being friends don't want to grass on each other, so keep things hidden within their congregations. Hence so much Child Sexual Abuse is hidden in the JW Org. Keep it amongst friends....................

It's hilarious coming from you, since you don't believe in an organizational structure while being in opposition by definition and action in an organizational structure. 😂 "since you don't believe in an organizational structure" How could i not 'believe in' an organizational structure ? What a crazy notion you have billy. The world is full of organizational structures. And I'm not in opposition to some of them. I just don't proactively do anything to support them. You are so out of touch with reality billy. As for me, in your opinion, being part of an organizational structure. How wrong you are. What you and your friend Tom do is to grab a lot of individuals that you don't like, then pretend that those individuals are in some way an organisation. It seems to give you and Tom some strange satisfaction to do that. It really does show how insecure you both are.

Quote Billy "I believe at one point Tom thought he could salvage your soul .. " "since Satan knows he has your soul." People have souls ? Adam came to be a living soul. Ezekiel 18 v20 The soul who sins is the one who will die. Tell me Billy have you got a seperate soul ? Um, didn't think JW's believed that. But you are not a JW are you Billy ?

@TrueTomHarley Quote "When you say you will be satisfied only with a “true” anointed and I say you won’t, I notice you do not answer that. Why not? Well you haven't asked a question there have you ? You've made a statement . When you say you will be satisfied only with a “true” anointed and I say you won’t, All you've done is disagree with me, and that is fine by me. But I don't see anything to answer. As you well know, the true Anointed of the 1st century could and did prove that they were inspired of God's Holy Spirit. They had special 'gifts' from God through Christ. Quote " As soon as they do, you will rail against them as LIARS, because that is your pattern. There is no reason to think that it would change. " Why did you “hide away” at that remark, John? Once again that is a statement. It is not a question that needs an answer. It is your opinion. And I am not in the least interested in changing your opinion of me. I do find it rather 'interesting' to listen to a person that calls himself a JW, to listen to his attitude and judgement of others (me). But there, you did say that you and Bily will get along just fine. And Billy thinks I'm due for total destruction with no chance of forgiveness from God or Christ. So it seems you and Billy are good at ignoring scripture when it suits both of you. Something to do with a rafter i think .... But as for the true Anointed, they will of course be humans and imperfect. But I gave an answer on this point before, where by Jesus said 'You although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children'. And the point Jesus made was that if those wicked ones asked God for good gifts then God would give them. Hence the true Anointed would be inspired by God and would ask for truth from God through Christ. The Anointed would receive truth from God through Christ and would then pass it on to the congregation of God people here on earth. What is so difficult about that, that you cannot understand ?

Yes well two complete nut cases together, you should get along just fine I suppose.

Quote the Kid "What does that tell the readers. If you're not willing to support leaders, and governments by your standards, then you're not willing period, since every structured religious authority and secular authority is false in your eyes. " to support leaders, and governments : Well I live within the law and pay my dues. So in that way I obey the government, even if i don't support them. Christians are no part of this world, so I'm not supposed to support a secular government anyway. Leaders : A Christian should only have one leader, Christ. Christ has been given all authority and power by God. Why would a Christian want any other leader ? If there were truly inspired Anointed they would only be passing on the message from Christ, so a Christian would still only be led by Christ. In the first century the Apostles were only messengers serving God through Christ. Remember even the Angels were only messengers from God.

I'm only repeating your own wordsTom. Quote "If one is witnessing for Jehovah, then that person is one of Jehovah’s Witnesses because he or she is doing what the name says. Why should that be so hard to understand?" I would not want to call myself one of Jehovah's Witnesses, not with the stigma now attached to them. And now the GB actually admit to not being inspired, then what is the point of being led by just ordinary men that don't know the truth ? But regarding witnessing and your point of "they have also lost the thread of what to talk about." Is that why the GB and writing dept' keep making up new stuff ? Just to give JW's something to talk about. In the wilderness they were given mana. That was all they needed. Of course they complained etc, but all they actually needed was mana. So it is with God's written word, all that is needed is a true Anointed body of men inspired of Holy Spirit to teach the congregation from God's written word. No need of book after book after book, of which most of the writing is either lies or distorted half truth. No need for monthly magazines which hype little points from the bible and blow it all out of proportion. No need for those really stupid videos. Is God's word not enough for JW's ? Never mind Tom. Keep advertising your books for your little bit of fame.

I notice that @TrueTomHarley didn't answer on my comment, regarding his comment of Quote Tom "If one is witnessing for Jehovah, then that person is one of Jehovah’s Witnesses because he or she is doing what the name says. Why should that be so hard to understand?" Actually Tom, you have made a fantastic loophole. You are saying that anyone that witnesses about 'Jehovah' is one of Jehovah's witnesses. Come on Tom, don't hide away. If i am witnessing about Jehovah, then am I one of Jehovah's Witnesses ? It seems to follow your logic.

Oh dear here he goes again, jumping on that band wagon of comparing the GB and it's Org, to the Apostles that were INSPIRED OF GOD. Can you please show me word for word where on this forum I said ‘If it is not perfect, then it is filthy.’ Because in fact TOM i think those have always been your words, not mine. Maybe i should re-quote the words of Jesus Matthew 7 v 11 Therefore, if you, although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will your Father who is in the heavens give good things to those asking him! So why hasn't your GB asked God for these good things, so that the GB could then pass them on to the congregation ?

You only kid yourself if you think God is 'working with' the GB / JW Org or the Watchtower.

So Billy wants faith and obedience to MEN. MEN who admit to not being inspired of God's Holy Spirit. And Billy compares that to the Apostles that were Inspired of God's Holy Spirit and proved it too. And Billy thinks that people want the Watchtower to be perfect, whereas Jesus said 'You even though you are wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children' Matthew 7 v 9 through 11. Indeed, which one of you, if his son asks for bread, will hand him a stone?10 Or if he asks for a fish, he will not hand him a serpent, will he? 11 Therefore, if you, although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will your Father who is in the heavens give good things to those asking him! So here we have Jesus saying that if the Anointed / or those taking the lead, asked God for good things then God would give those good things. Then the Anointed / those taking the lead, would pass on those good things to the congregation. No lies, no deceit, just good things. Billy also thinks the Watchtower / JW Org was 'set up' by God or so his comment looks. Quote Billy "God demands for his followers to follow a structured authority setup by him." So would the onus be on Billy to prove that the Watchtower / JW Org was set up by God ? I personally would think the 'demand' from God would be that we serve God through Jesus Christ.

No, what it means is, as long as you are true to God and follow scripture, you do not have to be obedient to the GB and its org. So i can be a JW in the eyes of some as I still bear witness to God and Christ. But I'm not one of Jehovah's Witnesses as I left that Org. Actually Tom, you have made a fantastic loophole. You are saying that anyone that witnesses about 'Jehovah' is one of Jehovah's witnesses. So in point of fact no one needs to become a member of that two sided Org, the Watchtower and JW Org. You have actually made the lovely division between talking about God to others, and, being a member of a false religion that uses God's name. Thanks Tom. You have made it clear that one does not need to be a member of JW Org or the Watchtower, to be able to serve God.