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JOHN BUTLER

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Everything posted by JOHN BUTLER

  1. Anna, here we have a technicality. My comment was that many 'feared they would be disfellowshipped if they went outside the org'.. Some have actually said that. You said that , 'taking the matter to the police was NEVER a reason for disfellowshipping'. But Elders could find another reason to use to disfellowship said person, and /or a person could well be shunned by the congregation if the congregation found out that said person had gone to the police. I was threatened with being disfellowshipped as I've mentioned before, and that was just for telling the truth.  The Elder called it slander. It's a shame to be back on this subject really, does none of us any good.Â
  2. In the story line, on her planet of origin, she was raped when she was 5, and gang-raped until 12, when she escaped, and she was the Starship Enterprise's Chief Security Officer. Started life as a JW then ?
  3. Um, strange topic, strange people on here If a man looks at a woman so as to have a desire for her he has committed adultery / fornicaton in his heart.  And if a man looks at pornography it is also wrong. But robots, does that include full size 'dolls' ? Oh dear the plot thickens.Â
  4. Are you saying JW's should go straight to the Police or outside authorities ? If so, many have said they were told NOT to go to the Police or outside authorities. And many have said they feared being disfellowshipped if they did go to those outside of the Org. That seems to have been at least 50% of the problem in past cases.
  5. @The Librarian you mentioned computer games i believe or PS4 and such like. Many of such games are for one person only, one player, and sometimes people shut themselves off in a room all alone to play these games. Mo son who is now 24 does this. It may be a 'wind down' after work for him but he does spend many hours through the night playing such games. As for Chess I used to love it at school, but it seemed to fade out of my life as i became more active as a teenager. Mods didn't play chess, they danced, rode scooters and spent their money on clothes and records. Agree with @Srecko Sostar that Jesus wasn't concerned about such trivial things. But there are many things one could disagree with if one was as piccy as the GB. For instance Bridesmaids at weddings. Yes JW's have Bridesmaids even if they call them by a different name. But of course Bridesmaids are based on superstition and traditions of men. There was once I was at a Witness gathering / party and the youngsters were playing music. I had to say no no to one song which they started to play, but no one else seemed to object to it. The song 'I'm just a teenage dirtbag baby'. It's horrible. Yet many years ago when I lived in Bristol a popular Elder of the Avonmouth Congregation would go around whistling 'Bohemian Rhapsody'. When i objected to it and told him why, he didn't care and continued to whistle it. The song by Queen was sung by a homosexual and was about murder. 'Put a gun against his head, pulled the trigger now he's dead', Yes, lovely. So you see we could object to so much in life. GB stop trying to turn people into puppets. You already have your Elder puppets, 'Hey GB leave the Congregants alone' (sorry it's a take off of Another Brick in the Wall ) 'Hey teacher leave those kids alone'
  6. Um, seems we are back to square one. All part and parcel as to why I left. Not just the actual abuse but how it isn't dealt with. In my opinion ALL Child Abuse accusations should be handed over to the Police immediately, and Social Services / Children's Welfare should be involved if a child is in danger. Congregations should be told that if a child or adult makes an accusation then the Police and authorities will be informed directly. That would give those making accusations advanced warning and it would leave it in their hands to make accusation or not, removing the problem of a case mentioned earlier on another topic where by Elders were moaned at for reporting it. And if it's a child making the accusation that would mean that it is happening right now (not in the past) so immediate attention is needed. So, now it is Spain that is reporting Child Abuse in the JW Org. I hadn't heard of this before. We are getting closer to what I've said before IT'S EARTHWIDE. I'm hoping that by the end of this year all countries will be reporting any abuse of any kind within the JW org. But there are some countries that will have more of a problem of course, where women and children are treated poorly generally. We now have :- Spain, Netherlands, Australia, America, Canada and UK. If anyone has any news of other countries involved I would like to have information please. I've started to write details in a book for my own information as I find it difficult to retain it all in my head. Are the GB still saying it's a 'few apostates telling lies' ? ( Special message for S. M. I am only interested in what is happening within the JW Org earthwide )
  7. Dear @admin you can close this topic down now. I think it's served its purpose. Thankyou
  8. As I feel free to criticise everyone does that mean no one rules over me
  9. That's shed some light onto it then .  Nice to be a bit light hearted Â
  10. Um, well, all interesting stuff. Egyptians doing blood transfusions, wow. Thanks. I stand corrected. And you have a great sense of humour (English).  Or Humor in American. Â
  11. Written at a time when literally drinking the blood of fallen gladiators was the 'in thing' and when blood transfusions were not even imagined.
  12. Yes what else would we do with our time But I must admit my mixed feelings are getting even more mixed as I read every comment. If only life was simple ....Â
  13. Very sad case indeed. I cannot understand why any mother and daughter would not want to call the police when one of them has been raped. As for the rapist being killed in prison, that is of no fault of the Elders is it. I think the elders did what was right. Their actions not only protected the victims but also protected the general public, as the rapist might have committed more of such crimes. As I've said before, a 'duty of care' to everyone, JW's and outsiders, is surely important.
  14. If you are going to quote me Tom please get it right. I said 'I am not your mate' I didn't say 'I am not you mate' Very big difference. Apart from that, throw at me what you will. I'm a grown man, i can take it. I won't go crying to the Org. But remember that Jesus said, 'Love your enemies and pray for them'.
  15. I've just watched a video link of Bro Jackson being 'sworn in' at the Australian Royal Commision and he swore on the Bible. I've always thought that JW's should not swear on God's word the Bible. I thought there was a scripture that says not to swear on anything, but to let our own Yes or No mean Yes or No.......... Matthew 5 33 - 37 And I'm sure somewhere in his statements he says that the GB might not be the 'only' channel God is using. So, I'm wondering how much his words or opinions can be trusted. 33 “Again you heard that it was said to those of ancient times: ‘You must not swear without performing, but you must pay your vows to Jehovah.’34 However, I say to you: Do not swear at all,c neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 nor by earth, for it is the footstool of his feet;d nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.e 36 Do not swear by your head, since you cannot turn one hair white or black. 37 Just let your word ‘Yes’ mean yes, your ‘No,’ no, for what goes beyond these is from the wicked
  16. And it is because of shouting from people like me, and many many others before me, that something is now being done in more countries than ever. If left to the GB of JW Org it would have remained 'in the closet' forever. I know I'm not perfect, I don't mind being counted as a sinner. I don't even mind what you all say to me ot about me. It's all worth it. All I'm looking for is a clean Organisation that serves God properly. And in my opinion God is sorting it. All in good time.
  17. !. I am not your mate. 2. I knew what i meant and so did you. 3. Like i said 'What will you twist next ?' and here it is for all to see. G A. You are funny, get over it. And it's not me that started this topic, nor am I interested in continuing it. But as I've said before, I'm not running from it either. It's you guys that keep it going.
  18. And your point about 'incompetence in secular handling' is almost funny. Haven't the JW Org used the excuse of the 'incompetence of Elders not trained for such work ? Just thought I'd put the 'almost funny' comment back in context for you G.A. 'incompetence in secular handling ' is almost funny in comparison to 'incompetent elders'. But of course, once again you knew exactly what I meant. You were /are just being a JW that tries to twist things to his own advantage. I wonder what you will twist next ?
  19. Fantastic, sensible comment. You see i do consider both sides. However to quote you, . "But like all institutions, reputation is paramount. The WTS is full of people who want to enhance the reputation of the WTS" It seems Jesus didn't suffer in this way of thinking. Jesus seemed not to care what people thought of Him. In fact : Luke 22 v 37 36 Then he said to them: “But now let the one who has a money bag take it, likewise a food pouch, and let the one who has no sword sell his outer garment and buy one. 37 For I tell you that what is written must be accomplished in me, namely, ‘He was counted with lawless ones.’p For this is being fulfilled concerning me.”q 38 Then they said: “Lord, look! here are two swords.” He said to them: “It is enough.” Jesus seemed here to make sure that he was counted with lawless ones. However one of my points is that the JW Org / W/t seemed more concerned with reputation than with Victims of Sexual Abuse, hence the victims became collateral damage. I.M.O. it has become an American inbred thing, collateral damage, so I'm wondering if me being 'British' makes me more sensitive to such. Quote you again : "and that this message will likely be rejected if our reputation is sullied. A college or sports organization will be just as guilty of protecting their reputation through maneuvering, or even more so, when the motive is as mundane as staying in business." So are the GB worried about the JW Org 'staying in business' ? Of course the message has been sullied. BUT what is of far moe importance is that Jehovah's name has been sullied, disgraced in fact. To the wall with the reputation of the GB and the JW Org, think about what impact it has had and is having on Jehovah God. I have two more points then I'll end this comment. 1. The reason i only pick out the JW Org is because 'we' all know that the 'other religions' basically serve the Devil, teaching the trinity, hellfire etc. But I've always, until now, trusted the GB and the Org. 2. Apart from the emotional hurt and life lasting trauma of Child Sexual Abuse, there is also the possibility of sexually transmitted diseases. Can you imagine not only being raped by a Pedophile but also being infected with HIV / Aids or other diseases.
  20. Now what if we look at your comment from a different angle. This idea of false accusation for instance. What if we said that ALL accusations would be reported directly to the Police and secular authorities. Wouldn't that make accusers think twice about making false accusations ? Because making a false accusation of such seriousness would result in charges being brought against the accuser would it not ? And your point about 'incompetence in secular handling' is almost funny. Haven't the JW Org used the excuse of the 'incompetence of Elders not trained for such work ? As for here in the UK, I think we are waiting for a new enquiry by the IICSA. Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse. Hopefully very soon.
  21. Wow, True Tom and Billy doing their bit to pretend the JW Org / Watchtower are so so good and pure. Well done boys, good acting. But it still comes back to Collateral damage. So i can only presume it has never happened to you and you have no idea what sexual abuse, or emotional abuse, or physical abuse is like. It seems the Australian JW org had records going back 50 years. And the GB / legal departments in USA have records going back at least 20 years containing thousands of accusations. Did they do it for 'kicks' ? Keeping these records / documents /files, to read and get high on ? Strange that the GB should keep so much info' but keep it all to themselves. Of course Victims are angry. I'm still angry at what happened to me, though it wasn't in the Org. It has ruined my life, so i can understand it has ruined the lives of thousands of others. Not only does it ruin the lives of Victims, it ruins the lives of families. And not only that but in the JW Org it has killed thousands spiritually, hence i say 'Offering Children to Molech'. But to your guys it's just collateral damage. Why should a few thousand suffers matter to you when your 8.5 million JW Org is still functioning ok. ' yielding to the instinct to not air dirty laundry'. Is that what they are Tom, the Victims. Just 'dirty laundry'. And you call yourself a Christian
  22. Wow I'm glad I missed that lot of discussion. Hope you all sorted it out now. Where as I don't think Jesus even mentioned the blood issue. Â
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