JOHN BUTLER

@BillyTheKid46 Like I said Billy we have different opinions.

In my opinion war is not 'the right thing to do'. All this about men being tough doesn't wash with me. And maybe most of those men were brainwashed into believing they would die and go to heaven. The war was about men and women being conscripted to kill other men and women. Remember even some Germans didn't go to war. Probably not only JW's at that. Sorry James but you seem to have this thing about guns and men being tough. There is enough sh-t in life for some of us that we don't need war or guns to make it worse.

Well Jesus gave His life willingly, if you believe the Bible that is. If you do not believe the bible then there is no level ground to debate on here. The bible says basically that we might face death because of our faith in God.

Sorry James this idea came from Tom in one of his comments. But I include the GB in number 3.

@BillyTheKid46 You make a charge of judgment against the Watchtower leaders as false teachers when in fact by your own actions and words, you are this false prophet. Oh dear Billy, there is no good reason to even talk to you. Your Watchtower GB and the ones before them the Bible Students all made things up as they went along. It gets boring to keep mentioning the 'Superior Authorities' and the 'This Generation' and the Blood Issue and the Two witness rule........................................ Billy you just don't want to see the honest truth, so be it. 2Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. Well that has certainly happened in the JW Org hasn't it. CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE. earthwide 3In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Armageddon 1914, 1975, and now soooo close. Only those in the JW Org will get saved. The GB are the Faithful and Discreet slave. Lies and more lies. BUT I'm not a prophet. Showing the truth about a wicked GB and it's two Orgs is not prophecy. Even if you die of old age, what good will it do you, to be judged as unrighteous? Now that's a crazy idea! 🤔 I think we have a different idea of 'unrighteous' Billy. My thought are that when a person dies their sins die with them. So a resurrection is a clean start. We also have a different idea about sinning against the spirit. In my opinion, and it will remain so, only the true Anointed can sin against the spirit, because only they are inspired of God by God's Holy spirit. Hence I also believe that the Bible is for the true Anointed to fully understand and to pass on true information to the earthly class. Back to 'ten men clinging to the skirt of a Jew'.

I've never looked into how the GB count the members. As there seems to be two 'businesses', the Watchtower and the JW Org, I have no idea if all are counted as one or if numbers are seperate. But I did once think it was by the number that were baptised. However now, even unbaptised publishers put in reports. So it looks like you could be counted as a JW by not actually being a JW because of not being baptised. My wife did that for a short time. I think religious groups count the money more than the members.

We'll agree to differ Tom. I think you are just being picky and wasting my time. Are you of the corporate class ? Corporate is an American comedy television series (Wiki) Sounds about right.

A bit of a contradiction Billy. And when God instructs this perfect earthly organization under Satan's rule It cannot be both. It can't be a perfect Org if it's under Satan's rule. As for your crazy idea that I ever knew the truth whilst in JW Org, sorry, you are wrong. I was misled, just as millions of others are now. If God and Christ want me to know the real truth I'm sure i will. But I'll probably die first, then learn the truth in the resurrection. Ye of little faith Billy.

I think to have 4 JW's all counting their time whilst doing nothing is not good for getting God's work done, if indeed that was what they were trying to do. I wonder if the early Christians stood in the marketplace with wooden boards and said nothing. Probably not. So you think standing like a statue is proactive do you ? I'm an enemy of lies and misleading religions Tom, so if the cap fits wear it.

I think Noah was a bit more proactive. Or did he just put a sign on the side or the Ark ?

I won't Tom i will be long dead. But there will be an Organisation that stands tall above all others. A pure and truthful organisation run by true Anointed. It will suffer persecution because it will be so pure and good and because it will serve God through Jesus Christ properly. It will give true direction and not have to keep changing its mind. Unlike the JW Org that is as deep in the sh-t as all other religions are right now. The JW Org is not recognisable as being high above the others, it is not recognised for pure worship, it is seen as being just as filthy as all the others and seen as telling just as many lies too. Different lies of course but still lies. Remember the scripture at Luke 17 v 1&2 Then he said to his disciples: “It is unavoidable that causes for stumbling should come. Nevertheless, woe to the one through whom they come! 2 It would be more advantageous for him if a millstone were hung from his neck and he were thrown into the sea than for him to stumble one of these little ones. The GB / W/t / JW Org are causes for stumbling right now. and have been for many years by misusing scripture. They can easily be seen as organisations that frequently change the meanings or purposes of their teachings. So right now God does not have a reliable organisation, hence Judgement time must be a way off yet. Or do you think God is unfair so that He would not give people proper direction at the time of the end ?

@TrueTomHarley Tom you put so much in a comment it is hard to know which bit to answer first. I'll start at the top I suppose. So. Now you think that advertising the kingdom is a waste of time. Do you even think anymore that there is a kingdom? Or is the kingdom simply in our hearts? You've created a trinity 3 questions in one. 1. I don't think advertising the Kingdom is a waste of time, but if no one comes near the stall / stand then no one hears about the Kingdom do they ? 2. Yes I believe in the Heavenly Kingdom which of course will have control of the Earthly paradise at some time. 3. No I don't think the kingdom is an imaginary thing in people's hearts. Should we instead begin praying for the world leaders fo be blessed so as to succeed in bringing better conditions? No, in fact i gave a witness on FB about this, this morning. A topic about saying christian prayers at Council / local government meetings. I mentioned that Jesus said he was no part of this world and that true Christians should be no part of this world either. In fact, do you retain anything at all of your former worship other than an odd insistence that God produce a true anointed one that does not “lie?” This is maybe a trick question Tom. I retain Bible knowledge, well as much as I can. And I use scriptures to prove points to myself and others. But yes I expect an Anointed that do not deliberately tell lies, or do not JUMP AHEAD of what God /Jesus wants those Anointed to know. The Anointed SHOULD NOT GUESS. That is going beyond the things written I would think. he will likely say that you are no great shakes yourself. But I'm not Anointed nor do i want to be a leader of people. [did you actually say that you trust no one at all ) I trust no human at all. However if i was sure that the Anointed were truly serving God then I would follow instructions, because the instructions would be from God or Christ, only using the human Anointed as a mouthpiece. Whereas in comparison the GB make it up as they go along and most times get it wrong. So we should no longer be children, tossed about as by waves and carried here and there by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in deceptive schemes.” (Ephesians 4:11,14) But that is what JW's do. Do you not understand that ? Can you not see how from the Bible Students onward there has been lies after lies / mistakes after mistakes. I need not repeat it all for you actually do know, you just chose to close your eyes to it all. What! God is incompetent, is he, unable to fulfill his above statement? God will make all things clear in HIS time and through Christ. Hence I feel that the Judgement is a long way off yet. The GB / W/t /JW Org is just frightening people by saying Armageddon is sooooo close now. It brings the people and the money in. Of course it will happen, but not yet, not yet.

I was once told that I could not be a JW if I did not witness to others. I would be a Jehovah's bystander .

@James Thomas Rook Jr. When you speak with the authority of Jehovah God ... and you are right about 15% of the time, and make up stuff out of THIN AIR, and punish others for not believing as you do ... and you are flat WRONG 85% of the time ..... who then is the apostate? James, I've just arrived home and I've been out in the sun, it's very hot here, so excise me for being slightly in a confused state. However, I do not understand where you are coming from. I presume this quote of yours above is referring to the GB / W/t / JW Org. But I keep thinking you are a JW. It is a complex problem, as we have TRUTH, not available, anywhere else ... and that TRUTH, when not contaminated, represents freedom and life itself. Then we have this. 'as we have TRUTH not available anywhere else'. AS who has truth ? Not the GB surely ? Let's not get TTH going about JW org being the 'only game in town'. Oh dear. So JW's go door to door with 85% lies / non truth, if your top statement is right. And 85% of what's written in the mags and books is lies/ wrong too. And JW's go to the meetings to have 'their ears tickled', and are willing to pay for that too. And the GB / W/t / JW Org is just big business. That's what I'm getting from your comments.

But your people need all those monthly reports so as to count your membership. Stand by a trolly / cart for one hour a month and you are a member to be counted. Do half an hour on the doors a month and you are a member to be counted, as long as you don't forget to put in your monthly report .

Only because I'm an ex witness and I know the game. I stood and watched, waiting for someone to go up and talk to them or even just take a magazine, but no one went near them.

Quote @Outta Here : This process of coercive control creates followers who are controlled by or for the leader without regard for their own needs. One needs to be a bit careful about this idea I think. Because the scriptures tell us to put God before all things and even to risk our own lives for our 'brothers' (whomever they may be) We know that Jesus willingly gave his earthly life to give praise and glory to his heavenly Father and to give humans a chance of everlasting life on a paradise earth. One has to think about who their 'leader' really is. If our 'leader' is Christ and he is leading us to a closer relationship with God, with everlasting life in view, then we must be prepared to face even death beforehand. We obviously need the faith in the resurrection to do so. This is from scripture not from JW Org. In my opinion the Watchtower / JW Org are too big a business to be a cult as such. And being earthwide I see them more as a full on religion, even though they are heading in a wrong direction. I mean the Catholics are earthwide and have the Pope as their leader but i don't think the Catholic church is a cult either. To the point about the W/t being big business, they have shareholders. I thought shareholders were people that made profit from a company/business. You put money in and get more money out. But I suppose that should be another topic.

You are the one with the name of a child, Kid. Pretending to be a tough cowboy. Go polish your guns kid.

I was at a car boot sale this morning (Here in England people drive their vehicles into a field and set up tables and sell their things) and there was a JW Org table there set up and carts / stands. 4 JW's, two standing, two sitting, no one even showing interest at all. I suppose they will count their time, all four of them. The car boot sale is from around 7am until 12 noon = 5 hours. 5x4 = 20 hours, for what ? When no one takes any interest. You might say it's giving a witness just being there, but if no one believes then no one takes any notice.

That took you a lot of words to say nothing billy.

Couldn't you read the bible and figure that out for yourself ? There are enough scriptures to tell you. 'A resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous' Buy Billy thinks some of us here won't get any resurrection, BTK thinks we are already condemned. I'd sooner believe God's words. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Was it unique to JW's and /or Bible Students that Christmas was an insult to God ? But they kept on celebrating it for 30 years. Was it unique to the Bible Students / JW's that smoking was against God's 'rules' or wishes ? But they kept on doing it for over 70 years. Was it unique to JW's that the Superiority Authorities were God and Jesus Christ ? Oh yes but that was a lie wasn't it.

@BillyTheKid46 Quote " I criticize those that think they have the right to criticize the Watchtower. " What is the Watchtower to you ? What exactly does that word Watchtower mean ? Who runs that Watchtower, who is in charge ? The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania is a non-stock, not-for-profit organization[4] headquartered in Warwick, New York. It is the main legal entity used worldwide by Jehovah's Witnesses to direct, administer and disseminate doctrines for the group and is often referred to by members of the denomination simply as "the Society". It is the parent organization of a number of Watch Tower subsidiaries, including the Watchtower Society of New York and International Bible Students Association.[5][6] The number of voting shareholders of the corporation is limited to between 300 and 500 "mature, active and faithful" male Jehovah's Witnesses.[7] About 5800 Jehovah's Witnesses provide voluntary unpaid labour, as members of a religious order, in three large Watch Tower Society facilities in New York;[8] nearly 15,000 other members of the order work at the Watch Tower Society's other facilities worldwide. Governing Body In 1976, direction of the Watch Tower Society and of the congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide came under the control of the Governing Body, reducing the power of the society's president. The society has described the change as "one of the most significant organizational readjustments in the modern-day history of Jehovah's Witnesses."[53] Following the death of Knorr in 1977, subsequent presidents of the Watch Tower Society have been Frederick W. Franz (June 1977 – December 1992); Milton G. Henschel (December 1992 – October 2000), Don A. Adams (October 2000 – 2014) and Robert Ciranko (incumbent).[50] Adams and Ciranko are considered "helpers" to the Governing Body, which retains authority over the corporations.[54] If this info is correct then the Watchtower is run by the Governing Body. So as bosses of the W/t they are responsible for lies, mistakes, failures, etc of the W/t, and the GB are responsible for lives, and deaths of many people. Your idea of using Watchtower as a cover up, does not work. The Watchtower is known as two things. 1. An Organisation / Society. 2. A magazine. Which ever you see it as it still has to be run by humans, and have leaders. Those leaders are the Governing Body. Therefore that GB are responsible for any good or bad that it produces.

Script quotes are meant for intelligent people that understand scripture. No good for the GB or JW Org then. They don't even know what a generation is . Not for those that use scripture for their own evil end. 😋 Are now you are talking about the GB and W/t and JW Org. Just look at the two witness rule.

You shot yourself (and the GB / JW Org) down Billy, admit it. No amount of quoting scripture will cover it up.

You cannot have SELECTIVE application of that bloviating statement, Billy. It's either universally true, or it is not true. And i would say it applies even more so for the GB that say they are the 'Faithful and discreet slave' and have made it their business to control over 8 million people's lives. Anything i may say can be either agreed with or dismissed with no consequence to the person that agrees or disagrees. Not so in the JW Org, whereby if a JW disagrees with the GB they can be disfellowshipped and lose everyone and everything they love.