Jump to content
The World News Media

JOHN BUTLER

Member
  • Posts

    1,653
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    14

Reputation Activity

  1. Downvote
  2. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Geoffrey Jackson Before the Commission - and the New Requirement to ‘Go Beyond the Law’   
    The Kid seems to think that man's laws are higher than God's laws it seems. So what happens when a government tells the JW's not to preach the good news, or not to talk about God ? Romans 13 v1 again Billy. 
    What would your W/t do Billy, obey man's laws ?
    No, it only hides behind man's laws when it is convenient to the GB and it's Org. 
    If 'data protection' hides criminals and sinners in the JW Org, then surely God's laws would override it for true servants of God. 
    I laugh at Billy's use of those last two scriptures. 1 Peter 2 v 16.
    16 Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God’s slaves.
    The GB / W/t / JW Org are using their freedom as a cover up for evil. That is what the Child Sexual Abuse investigations Earthwide are all about. The known facts and more facts being revealed about this Child Sexual Abuse being committed by Elders and others within the JW Org.   
    But Billy will keep his head in the sand, and as I've said before, he cannot really be a true JW by his thoughts and words. 
     "Either your trust in God or you don't", Billy says.... Yes Billy trust in God, but not in the Watchtower or the GB of JW org. Or in the Elders of JW congregations. 
    'Now you want the Watchtower to be an organization that breaks man’s law to benefit opposers,' Billy says.
    So, are victims of CSA now viewed as opposers in Billy's eyes ? Look after widows and orphans Billy, remember scripture. 
  3. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Geoffrey Jackson Before the Commission - and the New Requirement to ‘Go Beyond the Law’   
    @James Thomas Rook Jr. I totally agree with your first comment above and I believe the first paragraph of this second comment. As for the full proceedings, I didn't watch it all but have seen 'bits' via youtube or somewhere. 
    I do know that the Org tried to withhold information from the Charity Commision here in the UK. 
    I find it so funny when you call JW Org 'OUR' system or org. I cannot fully understand why anyone with your knowledge of the GB / W/t / JW Org would want to be any part of it, but maybe you are still getting info to pass on to us. 
    I would think that half of the time the criminal or sinner is an Elder, and that he is liked and protected by other Elders, so justice is seldom done. And all is hidden behind closed doors. 
    Whereas in that 'wicked old world' outside the Org, justice is more often done, and is seen to be done. 
  4. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Geoffrey Jackson Before the Commission - and the New Requirement to ‘Go Beyond the Law’   
    Yep Bro Jackson totally messed up on the whole thing but those that worship the GB will never see it or never admit it. 
    Back to this point :- 
    February 2017 Watchtower. Who is leading  God's people today ?
     The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction. In fact, the Watch Tower Publications Index includes the heading “Beliefs Clarified,” which lists adjustments in our Scriptural understanding since 1870. Of course, Jesus did not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food. 
    But with this comment here then not much more is needed is it ? 
    The GB are stating that they are the 'Faithful slave' but admitting that their 'food at the proper time' is not perfect spiritual food. Luke 12 v 42
    And the Lord said: “Who really is the faithful steward, the discreet one, whom his master will appoint over his body of attendants to keep giving them their measure of food supplies at the proper time?
    So the GB are saying that the food Jesus is supplying through Holy Spirit, is not good food. Now why would Jesus want to provide bad food for his followers ? 
    Ah but the GB are not inspired of Holy spirit, so um where exactly do they get this spiritual food from then ?
    Let's look at this in a practical way. The GB are the GOVERNING Body of JW Org and Watchtower. (it would seem that officially / legally they are not, but in practical terms they are ). Then there is a Writing Department. Are they inspired of Holy Spirit ? Well if the GB are not then I presume the WD are not. 
    Then we have the point of being Anointed. Surely if a person is Anointed then they are anointed with Holy Spirit ?  Ah, but the GB say they are not inspired of Holy Spirit. 
    So now we have the question, are Anointed ones actually anointed with holy spirit ? And if so are they inspired by holy spirit ? And if not, what is the point of having Anointed ones ? Yes we know they will die and go to heaven as part of the 144,000 but surely they have an important job to do now. They surely should be guiding God's earthly servants in the right direction ? 
    To guide God's earthly servants in that right direction, the Anointed ones would need to be inspired of Holy Spirit and to receive the spiritual food from Jesus Christ. 
    That brings us back to the scripture about the ten men clinging to the skirt of a Jew. 
    TTH and possibly BTK seem to want to follow a body of men that :- is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction 
    Why would anyone want to do this ?  Surely if a person wanted to serve God properly they would need proof positive that those men on earth that they follow were approved of by God and by Jesus Christ and that those men were actually being used to supply true spiritual food. 
    Please don't use numbers to justify God's holy spirit. There are surely far more Catholics and Muslims in this wicked world than JW's.  There are millions of bibles written by hundreds of different translators. There must be priests and clerics that put in many hours to their service to their gods. So saying that JW's do this or that proves nothing. 
    What is needed is proof positive of who the true Anointed really are and that they are inspired of God's holy spirit through Jesus Christ.
    And it is my true feeling that before Judgement Day arrives, God will show willing humble people exactly who those 'spiritual Jews' really are. 
     
     
     
     
     
  5. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    What a complete contradiction in full. 
    It just proves to anyone that has common sense that the GB have exalted themselves. And it is so funny that this 'organisation' that you seem to trust sooooo much, keeps changing its mind on things of scripture. 
    BTK seems to think that the GB always follow scripture, yet it can be clearly seen that the GB are always changing the meanings of the scriptures they use. This is only one example.
    Quote : The GB use the argument that many are fed by the hands of a few --and only 8 "NT" Bible writers fed the entire 1st century congregations. Um, it seems you are saying that just because only 8 men wrote the NT writings, that only those 8 men 'fed the entire 1st century congregations. Did the others retire then or go on holiday?
    There were at least 13 Apostles, because Judas was replaced, and then Paul was given direct instruction form Christ. Are you saying that the rest of these men did not feed the 1st century congregations ?  Just because they were not used to write what we have now as scripture does not mean they did not feed the congregations at that time. I would presume much more was done by word of mouth than in writing.  
    However i can see here in your words that you are just a spokesperson for the GB /JW Org / W/t, and that you do not consider any other possibilities. I'm glad I left the 'Org' so that I have opened my mind to consider all things. I do admit that I've not found any real answers but that does not mean i would blindly follow '8 men'. 8 men that have no proof whatsoever that they have any authority from God or Jesus Christ. 
     
  6. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    @JW Insider  Wow, so much to try to answer. 
    However I'm glad you mentioned this bit :  Others may have mental or emotional problems 
    The GB / Writing department actually wrote this. AND NOW we see people such a s TTH and BtK using it.
    Anyone that disagrees with the GB / JW Org are seen as having mental or emotional problems.  Do you honestly think the GB / Writing dept' didn't know that this would become the norm' ? This is how low they have sunken. 
    Next :- The GB / Org says about the Anointed. 
     They know that Jehovah does not necessarily give anointed ones more holy spirit than he gives his other servants. And they do not feel that they can understand Bible truths more deeply than anyone else.
    What utter nonsense. What the GB are really saying here is that THEY do not understand the Bible because THEY do not have the Holy Spirit from God. 
    There would be NO POINT in following the JEW if the JEW didn't know the right direction. If others that are not Anointed know and understand as much or even more about God's word, and it the same others were receiving as much or more Holy Spirit from God then why would those others want to go in the wrong direction just to follow So called anointed that haven't got a clue ? Do you see how your GB / Writing department make themselves look so stupid ? 
    The Watchtower / GB / JW Org put in such a very poor argument for the GB being superior to the other Anointed. 
    As I think you mentioned (well you did write a lot  ) the 'Faithful and discreet slave class' are the complete number of Anointed here on Earth at this time, BUT in my opinion, the GB have exalted themselves above the other Anointed still on earth. The scripture at Luke 14 v11 'For everyone that exalts himself will be humbled ...'  I think your GB are in for a big fall.
    Again your GB / Writing dept write :- 
    Although anointed ones feel that it is an honor to be invited to go to heaven, they do not expect others to treat them in a special way. ...
    Um, the GB, DO expect others to treat them in a special way, because the GB expect every JW to follow them and to believe their every word. 
    Quote you :  the Governing Body had already pointed to themselves as the ones  representing the faithful slave. 
    *** ws11 7/15 p. 24 par. 9 Have You Entered Into God’s Rest? ***
    They show us that Jehovah is using the faithful and discreet slave to teach us the truth. Sometimes the Governing Body, who represents the faithful and discreet slave, reviews how we understand certain truths.
    Don't really need much more proof positive that the GB are acting as dictators here. Telling congregants not to make contact with others of the Anointed. Telling the others of the Anointed not to make contact with each other. Telling all congregants that only they, the GB, have the right to give instruction to the JW Org and all its members. 
    Sorry I have to go to an auction now to collect a few things I've won. Talk again later, John 
     
     
  7. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    @JW Insider I can read your words but they make no sense to me. 
    You seem to be trying to 'hide' that scripture inside a million other words, maybe to discredit the scripture or me. Either way it matters not to me, for my feelings are that anyone reading my words that is truly interested in what I'm saying, will understand exactly where I am coming from. 
    That is why TTH and BtK cannot understand me, because they only see things from the JW Org viewpoint. Which in fact, it seems, is where you are seeing things from. 
    So, maybe give your interpretation, of, what the Watchtower's interpretation is of that scripture. The reason i say it like that is, because even JW's seem to disagree on matters of scripture and W/t interpretations. 
  8. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.
    out of all languages of the nations,  would seem to signify people from all over the Earth. 
    " By this he evidently means those who are truly led by the holy spirit, who are truly motivated by the holy spirit, and who therefore give proper guidance and to others. "
    Well actually I think HE means those that are TRULY ANOINTED OF HOLY SPIRIT, just as the Apostles were. 
    And I think HE means that it would be 'visible' in some way, but maybe only to those truly seeking God in a 'pure way'. 
    Quote "They can also be looked at in terms of our willingness to be involved with organizational goals or congregational goals when economics, delays, mistakes, and the despondency of others can take a toll on our own courage."
    This is very vague and general in it's meanings. " organizational goals or congregational goals " Which organisation and congregations ? 
    " mistakes " By whom where and when ? 
     
     
     
  9. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    Seems to me, Butler has me confused with “witness” that pretends to be anointed.   
    Seems to me Kid has no idea what he is on about. Who could confuse that kid with anyone else. The Kid is a one of a kind loony. 
    “you can’t fix stupid”. Well you should know Kid, you have to live with yourself being like that all the time. 
    In the Greek Scriptures it is basically Anointed men speaking to Anointed men and women when it comes to instruction and direction.  Those of that era / time were of the heavenly calling. 
    Jesus said  “And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.
    other sheep, those too I must bring, they will listen to my voice
    The earthly class are the 'Other sheep', that Jesus 'must bring', and Jesus was talking in future tense, 'They will listen to my voice'. 
    And Jesus says these other sheep (the earthly class) are not of this fold, meaning not of the heavenly calling. 
    Seems easy enough to me, but then I'm not blinded by the Devil / GB / JW org. 
  10. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    Quote "as though it really matters to God". BtK as if your opinion really matters to us. 
    You are a pretend JW that has no idea of God's word and no idea of truth. 
    Quote "Witness, seems to think only the anointed are the Body of Christ"...  And I agree with him. The Anointed are both the Body and the Bride of Christ. Those 144,000 that go to heaven to be there with Christ. The Body of Christ will be complete in Heaven with Jesus Christ himself. 
    Why do you puff yourself up by thinking you are part of that Body ? 
    Jesus spoke of the earthly class as 'other sheep that are not of this fold'.
    I presume your body is only in one place ?  Would you divide your body and put it in different places ?  Although at this time the Body of Christ is not all in heaven, it will be when God chooses to bring the Judgement. 
    I don't think you are impressing anyone on here BtK. You are just trying to bully people and make yourself look important. The real BtK is dead physically, you BtK are dead spiritually. 
     
     
  11. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    So did you deliberately misquote me ?  If you did it doesn't matter. 
    I suppose I expect the Anointed to be leaders as that scripture says that the earthly class 'will go with them'. 
    And yes I expect the Anointed to be the ones that form the true way of serving God for all of those here on Earth that truly want to serve God properly. I don't like the word 'religion' as it is used as a 'pigeon hole' or a tag. 
    Why do you think I imply that the GB claim to be inspired, when I know they put in writing that they are not inspired. 
    It is because they are not inspired that they cannot be the true Anointed Faithful slave. This is proven by their actions and writings, rules and denials, misuse of scripture, misinterpretation of scripture, ad infinitum ..... 
    I would expect that the true Anointed would clearly be seen to be such, by their actions, words, encouragement, love, honesty, respect, understanding of others, willingness to help others, again, ad infinitum... 
    In the 1960's I was a Mod. Now there is a stupidity in that film Quadrophenia that shows Mods shouting 'We are the Mods We are the Mods', but in truth in my hometown we did not go around telling people that we were Mods. We didn't need to, people could see by our 'way of life'  that we were Mods.
    This is how I think the True Anointed would be, clearly seen to be such, and in many countries, so that people could approach them to 'follow them'. Like I've said communication Earthwide is so simple now. Well you are reading this and you are on the other side of the Earth, so point proven.
    Must go,  parcels to post, busy life  
  12. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    Not to divert from you thread, though (as I sometimes do) Continue
    TTH, you just did, totally off topic  
    But why not just use the BIBLE, isn't it the Bible that is supposed to inspire people. 
    By using a 'brochure' you are just doing what i said JW's do, acting as a parrot for the GB.
    Hebrews 4:12 New International Version (NIV)
    "12For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart."
    Now that is where the truth is, in God's word, not in any brochure made up by earthling man. 
  13. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    @JW Insider  Quote "wondering why John seems so sure that this verse cannot refer to any group like the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses."
    I actually said it could not BE the GB of the JW Org. I don't remember saying it could not be any group like ... 
    There is a big difference. The message from Christ is now Earthwide. The GB are basically 8 white American men. 
    The Anointed must also be Earthwide. In my humble opinion it would seem more sensible for Christ to use men of different race, colour, background. And in this day and age of Earthwide internet would they all actually need to be based in one building. (I do believe someone on here has called that building a false temple but i would not go that far.) 
    I also thing there is tooooo much emphasis on the actions of the 12 ( or 13)  Apostles of Christ in the 1st century. They were in one place and much of their work was spoken words so not everything would have been recorded. I think it is too easy for people of the earthly class to misunderstand scripture. 
    But coming back to the GB of the JW Org / Wt.  By their works you will know them, i think that says it all. 
    However I do not say that a group of Anointed men could not do the job. I say that i my opinion the GB are not anointed and not capable of doing the job properly. 
  14. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    @BillyTheKid46   Firstly you couldn't be bothered to say which scripture you were quoting from but it is obviously Ephesians 4.
    So your version of v 12, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 
    NWT  version of v12  with a view to the readjustment of the holy ones, for ministerial work, to build up the body of the Christ,
    So this is talking about the 144,000 of the heavenly class. 
    Also when people start to understand that the Greek scriptures WERE written for the Anointed and not for the earthly class then people might just get a better understanding of all scripture.  Yes we can read scripture and get a very very basic idea of what it means, or we think we do. BUT Jesus will only reveal the true full meanings to those he chooses and they will be the ones of the Anointed. 
    I thought the Matthew 25 scripture is good about Jesus sorting the sheep from the goats and Jesus says to the sheep (those of the earthly class that have been recognised as doing good) Matt 25 v40
    In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ 
    Now Billy thinks we are all Christ's brothers, but this scripture shows that 'the King' Christ Jesus is talking to the earthly class about the heavenly class, because Jesus says 'of these my brothers', whereas is everyone was of the Body of Christ, it would be 'of these our brothers'.
    Funny though i always thought that the Org made it clear that all the earthly class was doing was 'assisting the heavenly class' in the work that was actually given to the heavenly class. That would go along with Jesus' words above. 
     
  15. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    At Jesus' baptism God's Holy Spirit came from heaven and settled on him, so I would have thought that he was anointed then. 
    Matthew 3 v 16
    16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”
  16. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    @JW Insider  i had told myself i would not spend time on here today as I have much work that needs doing BUT :-
    Quote " but you have made previous comments that make me think that you believed a TRUE "faithful and discreet slave" should "in effect" be inspired in some way "
    Yes indeed. I think much of the Bible is written in a sort of 'code'. Yes we can read the words but we can have different interpretations of those words. Indeed the GB of JW Org change the meanings of some scriptures as I've said before. It gets boring to mention the 'Superior Authorities' & ' This Generation'  but it proves a point. 
    The Bible books were written under inspiration of God's Holy Spirit. The Bible was compiled under the same inspiration. 
    The scripture which actually says 'All scripture is inspired of God .... ' is rather strange for two reasons. 1. not all scripture had been written at the time, and 2. certainly the 'bible had not been compiled. My feeling about that scripture is that it referred to the Hebrew writings, which the early Christians already had.  Otherwise it would have to have been prophecy about the writing of the other books and the complete 66 books being gathered together as one. 
    Now we know that in times of war countries use code words etc. And we know that we live in a time of spiritual warfare. So it is my humble opinion that only Inspired Anointed would have the key to the code of the deeper things of God's word.
    Remember, after Jesus was resurrected and he was walking along with, two disciples i think, (my mind goes) then Jesus fully opened up the scriptures to them. 
    Well in my opinion Jesus will only open up the scriptures to the true Anointed, and that opening up will be by the inspiration of God's Holy Spirit. The very same inspiration by Holy Spirit that was given to write those 66 books.  
    Will there be Anointed that are inspired and also Anointed that are not inspired ?  I do not know. But it must be Inspired Anointed that lead God's true organisation, otherwise it will end up like JW org. :) 
    Enough I must work now.  I have much more to convey, but not yet, not yet.............. (yes it's a film quote) 
  17. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    Well at the end of it all none of us really know. It is my humble opinion that no one on here is an Inspired Anointed person, so we all 'understand' scripture differently. 
    I for one would not claim to be Anointed or Inspired. Hence i often say I do not know the answers.
    However, it is clear for anyone to see that the GB as they are now, and how they and the Society have been in the past, cannot have God's approval. Why would God guide dishonest, self serving men ? 
    Some on here think the GB / Society  have 'made mistakes' in the past, but it looks quite clearly that they deliberately sinned, and continue to do so.
    Some may say that if i don't know the way then how do I know what is not right. Well even if I was lost in the countryside I would know it wouldn't be clever to jump over the edge of a cliff. 
    BtK likes to think that his version of scripture is always right and that most of us here have no idea, but in reality it just shown that he is exalting himself above the rest of us. Luke 14 v11 deals with that. 
    So I suppose we will all continue to write comments based on our own feelings and thoughts, or for the JW's more likely based on the thoughts and words of the GB and writing dept.  
     
  18. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    Quote @JW Insider " His abuse of others. In fact it was an over-the-top eulogy of how great he was with kids and how he was always interested in their spiritual welfare that seemed to trigger a muffled outburst during the talk, and just after the talk there was an argument by others in the family about always keeping quiet about shameful things. It finally spilled over to others outside the immediate family. And this brother's own granddaughter had no idea about it until the funeral. It was a mess! "
    CSA, hidden in the JW Org, at it's best then. And even you didn't know or most of the congregation so it seems. Doesn't this actually prove my point on this matter (TTH, no it never happens :) ) 
    Quote " As a parent, I admit that I've tended to exaggerate the moral problems of the world myself, and I've learned that this fear-mongering doesn't work at all with high-school kids " 
    Thank you for your honesty. But multiply that by 8 million JW's and it gets a bit serious. (TTH, it never happens) 
    Quote " choosing bridesmaids. "  Um sorry to do this but JW's being no part of the world and not doing anything that relates to spiritism ect.... The origin of bridesmaids was to frighten or confuse evil spirits or the devil. The bridesmaids would all dress the same as the bride so that the evil spirit wouldn't know which one was the bride in case it wanted to 'attack' her. 
    Some sources state that, in ancient times, originally the bride and all the bridesmaids wore exactly the same dress and veiled their faces heavily, for the purpose of confusing jealous suitors and evil spirits. In China during the feudal era, the female womb was seen as precious for the production of an heir. (Wikki)
    I'll finish on this one. 
    Quote "Of course, some Witnesses had terrible experiences in the world, and the organization has truly provided a safe haven, and a spiritual paradise, relatively speaking."  Hum really ? Safe ? Spiritual ? 
    Well most on here know my past experience of the 'world', well some of it anyway. So I do not see the JW Org as any different to the 'world' that JW's warn people about.  And spiritual paradise ? When the GB / writing dept' keep changing the meaning of scriptures and keep adding loads to people's shoulders and not offering even one finger to lighten the load.Aa scripture comes to mind about 'We favour adding no further burden to you other than ... " 
    But ignore my moaning, it has been raining here and I have outside work to do, so I'm not happy. However now is time for lunch and food helps me to be happier. Have a good day JWI. 
     
  19. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    @JW Insider in a nutshell it seems to me you are saying that JW Org /Watchtower Soc' are no better than any other religion, and can be seen to be no better.
    JW's are volunteers, except for JW children of course. Hence I think baptism should not be until an 'adult' age. Then every real baptised JW would be a volunteer. People in the world are not volunteers. They are born into the world. So I see no point comparing JW's with people of the world. 
    Quote "I thought there had not been any cases of CSA in any congregation I had personally been in, .. "  
    But how would you know unless you are an Elder ? It's not announced from the platform is it. 
    Quote "I've seen a lot of love and long-lasting friendships.. "
    I go to classic car shows and automobilia auctions (which I'm involved in setting up ) and there are people there who have known each other for a 'lifetime' and have love and friendship amongst their fellow 'kinsmen'. 
    YE olde JW's talk as though all the world is killing each other or on drugs and having multiple sex partners and orgies. Children in the JW Org are taught that everyone outside the Org serves the Devil. And the Armageddon pictures just to frighten people. 
    And all people that leave the Org ' have gone back to' the 'ways of the world' which are wicked. I laugh at it all but it's not really funny. The Org lives on scaremongering. And I've said it before (but according to TTH it never happens) congregants are frightened of the Elders. Frightened of being reproved for the least little thing, whilst the Elders get away with much bigger things. 
    Quote " at a recent funeral of a local elder when several tales of his abuse were exposed by family members.. "
    Does this mean He abused others or He was abused by others ? 
    Quote "But this is far from the norm.. " How do you know that ? It may be far from the norn where you are but I'm talking Earthwide. 
    Enough, 11.30 am here in England. Coffee break, I'll even ask my wife if she wants coffee too :)  
  20. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    You seem to have a habit of telling people that 'this never happens'. I think you told James the same about his comment.
    Tom please wake up to the reality of JW life, sh-t happens. 
     
  21. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    @JW Insider  Quote "Also, just my opinion, but I don't think we need anything except to keep our eyes open and see the works of various Christian brotherhoods to know whether or not Jehovah's spirit is acting upon them. By their works you will recognize them. It's not that works result in our salvation, but that the "works" of the spirit result in "love, joy, peace, patience, etc., etc." If our hearts desire Christian association with loving, peaceful, patient persons, we would find such ones to associate with."
    Well I will admit that I haven't been going around different 'Christian brotherhoods' testing to see if they are good or not. 
    However I have been connected to the JW organisation since I was around 19 and I'm now 69. And in that 50 years I've seen many things that are not Christian in that org. Many Elders that didn't have the right attitude or heart condition. I've seen Elders disfellowshipped. I know of one Elder that committed suicide by backing his Volvo up to his lounge window and put a hose through into his lounge and sat in a chair drinking alcohol and inhaling the exhaust smoke. Now that was a wonderful Christian attitude wasn't it ?  But his wife remarried very soon after, a ministerial servant, son of another Elder.  And that congregation was run by two families. it was like the mafia. I tell you truthfully I was glad to leave Filton Congregation in Bristol. Not a good example for those inside or outside. 
    Then when i arrived here in Devon, I was in the Sidmouth congregation. But a new KH was built in a place named Honiton and the Sidmouth congregation had to join up with the Honiton congregation. I never known so much bickering over Elders positions. Of course joining two congregations there were too many Elders so some of them lost their positions. And the two congregations were not happy at all. I didn't see much examples of this love and peace you mention and funny thing is the total number of congregants very soon went down. At first the new hall was very crowded but within three months it  was half empty. 
    I'm sorry I'm just telling it as it is, and could relate much more. So this idea that the JW Org is guided by God's Holy spirit is just a dream that JW's want to believe. 
    You talk about : "works" of the spirit result in "love, joy, peace, patience, but what about the CSA committed by many Elders and other congregants earthwide ?  What about the shunning of people that were not disfellowshipped for sinning ?  So much badness in that Org from the top down.
  22. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    @JW Insider  Won't the Anointed already be in heaven when the judgement happens ?
    The separating of sheep from goats (earthly class) will be after the Anointed are taken up surely ? 
    Those truly Anointed have surely already been chosen (seperated in a way from the earthly class), although it obviously depends on their true service to God through Christ for all of their earthly life.  
    To judge the Anointed again would seem strange to me. 
    In my opinion it is only those of the Anointed that can sin against the spirit. Because they are Spirit Anointed and brothers of Christ. But then in my opinion the Greek scriptures were written by and only for those of the true Anointed. 
    The idea of the 'early church' that the Bible was only for those 'in charge'  seems basically right to me, but unfortunately they misused that power. 
    Imagine just for one moment, a truly Anointed group of 'Spiritual Jews' here on earth, having direct spiritual contact with Jesus Christ, receiving perfect spiritual information (food at the proper time), which they then pass on in an honest and righteous way, to those of the earthly class.  Just imagine those of the earthly class, receiving that perfect information  and going into the ministry with God's blessing through Jesus Christ, to pass on that true God given information to deserving ones in the world............... 
    That is where I'm coming from. That is how I think it should be. 
  23. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    Billy there is no talking with you. You are completely blinded by your worship of those 8 MEN.
    It matters not if they say revise, change, alter, new light, or anything else, they still deliberately tell lies. 
    They use words to deceive people Billy. AND they change meanings of scripture and misuse scripture too. 
    Sorry you are not mature enough spiritually or mentally to face those facts. It's your loss. 
  24. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    How can you say that the Watchtower society / JW Org / GB dispense truth when they keep changing the meaning of scriptures ? It is not a lie to say they they have changed the meaning of the scripture concerning 'This generation will not pass away' .. It is not a lie that they changed the meaning of the scripture concerning the 'Superior Authorities'. it gets boring repeating this but you obviously don't believe they change the meaning of scriptures. 
    They also misuse scripture and misuse their 'authority' but that is another matter. 
    The GB have no way of proving that they have been chosen by God to do His will. They admit not to be inspired. They even admit that they make mistakes. If they have the responsibility of 8.5 million lives already, and if they have yet another 9 million bible studies going on, and if they have the job of gathering all those with the right heart condition, then surely they would need to be inspired by God, and surely Jesus Christ would not let them give false information or make mistakes which would stumble thousands of people earthwide and stop some people even being interested in the JW Org.
    As for understanding, you only seem to understand the GB's / Watchtower's meaning of scripture, so you prove yourself to be following MEN. 
    Sorry Billy but you do make yourself open to criticism by your blindly believing all that the Watchtower / GB tells you. 
     
  25. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    @JW Insider 
    July 2015 Watchtower simplified edition. Para 16.
    Sometime after the attack of Gog begins, all the remaining anointed ones on earth will be taken to heaven. Then Revelation 17:14 tells us about the reaction in heaven  to Gog’s attack. The enemies of God’s people “will battle with the Lamb, but because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those with him who are called and chosen and faithful will do so.” Thus, Jesus, together with his 144,000 anointed kings in heaven, will rescue God’s people here on earth.
    17 That rescue will result in the battle of Armageddon, which will bring glory to Jehovah’s holy name....................
    So this W/t says all the 144,000 will be in heaven before Armageddon starts.  
    But are you saying that the Judgement of the earthly class is prior to this happening ? 
    I also remember a scripture at Matthew 24 v 22
    In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short. 
    How does this fit into the equation ? 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.