JOHN BUTLER

Actually BtK it's you that don't get it. 
Your GB are trying to shift the blame onto the congregants by saying it was the congregants that didn't understand it right. 
Today, the faithful and discreet slave sometimes helps us to understand a teaching in the Bible in a way that is different from what we thought before. We should be happy about these changes. 
And as @Srecko Sostar said it wasn't  WE that thought it in a wrong way, it was your GB. 
Wake up Billy. 

Um, reading TTH's comment above concerning the Trinity, it seemed to me to fit well into the idea of the GB calling themselves the 'Faithful and Discreet slave'. Following on Tom's logic then the 'burden of proof' is for the GB to prove they are that 'slave'. 
Quote "With very few exceptions, all ‘proof’ of the Trinity is based on taking literally certain passages which, if they were spotted anywhere else, would instantly be dismissed as figures of speech. I can picture these yo-yos reading of ‘crocodile tears’ and seizing upon it as proof that the writer is a crocodile."  
I can picture the GB 'reading of ‘crocodile tears’ and seizing upon it as proof that the writer is a crocodile." ' 
The default position favors the Ex Witness....  :) :) :) 

We are not moving in a forward direction on anything here. 
We seem to have non inspired GB, leading a non inspired JW Org and Watchtower, using a non inspired translation of the Bible, and teaching non inspired teachings to millions of unsuspecting congregants. 
So what is so different to any other so called 'christian organisation' ? 
Well all this non inspired 'stuff' is taken door to door to deliberately mislead and frighten people. A sort of blackmail to make people believe that 'the only means of salvation' is through that non inspired mess mentioned above :) . For what purpose ? 
To give more power to the non inspired GB and bring in more money to the non inspired two fold organisation (Wt / JW Org) 
To think, I was once blinded by all of that ! 

Scholarly JWs have admitted that it's a common problem to include bias. 
But this means that the NWT was NOT guided by God, Jesus Christ, or Holy Spirit. 
And basically proves the whole embodiment of JW / Wt orgs are not guided by any of them. 
So where is there any reason for trusting the GB, the Watchtower, the JW Org, the Writing department or any JW at all ? 
It all falls apart if their own Bible is not dependable. How can anyone give a BIBLE STUDY using FALSE information ? 

It seems to be like I've said before. The way some folks stay in the JW Org is 'by not actually being part of the JW Org'.
Not using the NWT, not believing all the GB says, not obeying all the GB / W/t / JW Org rules.
So um why actually stay in ? ah yes, well I've given the reasons for that already. Too much to lose. 
Now if all of those congregants earthwide that didn't, use the NWT, believe all the GB say, obey all the GB rules, were to leave the JW Org, I'm quite sure the 8.5million would decrease rapidly. 
When the GB use the expression "brazen conduct" I think they are referring to themselves.
But now JTR Jr is saying that 'brazen conduct' is not from the original scriptures.
Is any of the NWT from the original scriptures ?
And what does God and Jesus Christ think of people that deliberately alter or add to the scriptures ? 
This seems to show that the NWT was not written / translated with direction by God's Holy Spirit. 
 

Literalness. Unlike paraphrased translations, the New World Translation renders words literally as long as doing so does not result in awkward wording or hide the thought of the original writings. Translations that paraphrase the Bible’s original text may insert human opinions or omit important details.
Um, I think this has been disproved. I think the word BIAS comes in somewhere. 

Quote BTK " Since you think everyone at the Org is a potential pedophile..."
I think everyone on this Earth has the potential to be a pedophile or a murderer, or a thief and much more. 
I think the Elders that hide the pedophiles are just as guilty as the pedophiles themselves. 
I think the GB / directors / bosses / Lawyers of W/t & JW Org are just as guilty for creating the mechanisms for hiding pedophiles in the W/t and JW Org. 
I think that anyone inside or outside the W/t & JW Org that hides pedophiles or hides information about pedophiles in the W/t & JW Org, are just as guilty of the Child Sexual Abuse in those organisations. 
And I've said on this blog many times I TRUST NO HUMAN. I would put more trust in animals. 
Quote BTK "Yet, its funny how some within agree with opposers."
Billy I'm sure you know that a lot of people are only in those crap organisations (W/t & JW Org) because they have too much to lose, materially, emotionally, mentally.  They have families, 'friends', businesses, status, position, pride, and much more, and it would all come tumbling down if they had the guts to leave the Org / W/t. 
Do you really think there are 8.5 million servants of JW Org ? Dream on Billy. There may be 8.5 million in that 'club' physically but they are not all in it spiritually.  If you go on 'other' websites you will know that. 
Many witnesses openly admit that they are physically in / mentally-spiritually out. Well I suppose it's a good way to stay up to date with the latest lies from the GB. 
But you and James seem so violent in your minds and your words... 
I do not have to kill anyone to protect my grandchildren. :)  I do have some mental balance, though I don't know why. 
A person does not have to go to war to see violence and perversion and emotional destruction. Many people including myself have seen and felt enough of it. That's why i don't want to see it happen to innocent children. 
But the GB / W/t / JW Org / Elders, do not care enough yet. 
And I do wonder by your comments BTK, if you are a p................................ 

Stop being so American James, not everyone on this planet Earth wants 'to go to war'. 
It's about being as cautious as serpents I thought  :)  Not being a rogue elephant. 

I don't know, but I'd need more info on him like his previous address I think. His name is quite basic so could be many men with the same name. I don't know his age either other than my wife says he's old and looks around 60. 

Didn't JW turn to a child, in one of his films and say  ' You're what this war is all about ' 
And something like ' Get off ya horse n drink ya milk'  
In my second marriage we had a son and I almost named him Wayne, as my name being John, John (and) Wayne.
But i thought it was too much Hero worship which we are told is a sin. :) 
 
 

He might be, he might not be. But I'm just grandad that is left on the sidelines and I suppose it looks as if I'm bitter about it. 
So do I just mind my own business, or is it my business ? 

OK, I know some people will not like this and they will call it gossip but my wife and I are worried about it so it needs to aired out.
We have one daughter that is still a JW. i will call her H.  She is married to a non JW. She has 4 children.
This daughter does not seem to recognise any dangers at all about her children. She invites anyone to her house without really knowing who they are or anything about their past.
3 of the children are girls and they attend ballet and tap dance lessons. They are only young, the oldest being around 8 years old. 
Today they were in a performance /show in Exeter, a biggish show that their teacher was putting on for all parents, grandparents, etc. 
I wasn't allowed to go of course as I'm a 'naughty boy' that left the Org.
My wife went to the show and was surprised to find two 'brothers' there.
One of the 'brothers' is a young single Elder and the other 'brother' is an old man that has recently been reinstated and moved into Honiton congregation.  
This older man frequently visits H and her daughters at their home and the girls call him Uncle Phil. He seems very 'friendly' toward the girls.
H does not know where this 'brother' is from but he is now part of the Honiton Congregation which H and her children attend, here in Devon. 
It seems strange to me that this man has just arrived at Honiton Congregation and just been reinstated. My wife says he has a London accent. 
If I were still a JW I would ask him bluntly why he was disfellowshipped and where he is from, but of course I cannot do that now.
I have his full name, so is there any way i can run a check on him ? 
Should i contact an Elder at Honiton Congregation and tell them of the concern my wife and I have ? 
If this 'brother' had been involved in a child abuse accusation would they have told H about it so that she could be on her guard ? 
Some on here may think I'm just trying to cause trouble, but my wife came home this evening and is looking very worried. 
It seems that H had invited both 'brothers' to the meal afterward and my wife felt unhappy about the whole situation. 
TTH will probably bring out the rule book again and say 'it never happens', but child abuse does happen and needs to be looked for all the time. 
Our daughter H seems to have no idea about the situations that have taken place, and in honesty she doesn't want to know. So how can my wife warn her ?  
 
 
 
 

If and when we see them abuse their authority, we can point it out as Paul often did, 
I like this. There were times when an Elder would give me a headache / chew my ear off I think is an expression, and i would simply say to him,  'Show me three scriptures to back up what you are saying, or go away'.  They would walk away.
One of the points regularly was not wearing a jacket and tie in hot weather. In my opinion neither God nor Christ demanded it. 

@JW Insider  Quote "Those who have seen the evil in people up close and personally may actually have a keener "intuitive" sense of potential evil. Or perhaps that "intuitive" sense has been destroyed for the same reasons. I have no idea, so I am not trying to answer John directly on this topic."
In a nutshell. I suffered 3½ years of sexual abuse, physical abuse and emotional abuse in a Children's Home, from age 13 to 16½. It was suffer and keep quiet, or be moved into an Approved School, which i was assured was 10 times worse.  We didn't have sex education back then so i was very nieve, and I was under the 'care' of the council (local government) so could not just walk away from it. I could not report it to the police as they were all part of the same system and i would have been 'moved'.  

@TrueTomHarley  Ok let's take one step at a time with your over long comment. Over long deliberately to deceive people, to try to take people away from the true points of my comment. Nice try Tom.
1. I quote " This is exactly how it was in the Jewish nation, per laws given to Moses, that serve as a last-ditch method of discipline."
No in the Jewish nation people were born into it, they did not volunteer themselves into it. A big difference. Hence I've said before, children should not be baptised, they should have to wait until they are 'adult' age, then it would be voluntary. 
When  a person volunteers themself to be a JW (gets baptised) they think, at the time, that they are 'giving their life to God'. But in truth they are joining the JWOrg /W/t / GB run club. However it is voluntary, not born into. Big difference. 
But once a person is in that 'club' they become ensnared. They are told not to mix with people 'in the world', not to do business with 'people in the world', always bo no part of that 'wicked world. So of course they build their whole world around the JW Org . W/t, GB.  Then they are trapped. All their eggs in one basket.  If they leave the 'club' they lose everything, in a sense.
However as I've found by leaving that 'club', it does not mean turning my back on God or Jesus Christ. 
2. Many witnesses openly admit that they are physically in / mentally-spiritually out.
You took this and tried to make a comedy out of it. It didn't work Tom.  It didn't work because so many people know that many JW's are not 'fully committed' to your GB and it's JW Org. I think it was James that said that many JW's don't even use the NWT bible. 
As for doing preaching hours, it only takes ½ an hour PER MONTH to put in a Monthly Report. 
3. Quote "There is no NT writer who does not deal with apostates. If they existed then, why would they not exist now? "
It is so easy for you, the Gb and the Org to use that silly word Apostates. I say silly because it loses its meaning by overuse. 
The NT writers suffered opposition from Jews that did not believe that Jesus was the Christ / Messiah,  or did not want to let go of the power they had. And from the Romans of course. However those 'writers' were inspired of God and could do works to PROVE it. 
What the GB / JW Org / W/t is suffering now is not opposition to God or Jesus Christ, it is opposition to false teachings, opposition to man made rules, opposition to Child Sexual abuse in the JW Org / w/t, opposition to the GB demanding that they are seen as the only 'Faithful and discreet slave',  opposition to oppression from Elders, get the picture. 
Your GB cannot prove that they have the authority to give themselves the position they do give themselves. (Remember your argument about proving the Trinity). They do not have WORKS to PROVE their authority.
Tom you should probably carry on writing fairy stories as you seem to live in that sort of a 'world', a dream world.  

@BillyTheKid46 Quote  " The irony, you attack the GB when your heart in no better than the soulless being you present, not just here but elsewhere. "
The difference being that i don't pretend to know the truth, and i don't want power over others. I don't make rules for others to follow. I do not mislead anyone as I do not try to 'take the lead' in any way. 
I do not pretend that i am the 'Faithful and discreet slave' of God through Christ. 
And I'm not frightened to admit that i have no love or trust in anyone. 
But then i don't hide pedophiles either, and I don't tell people how tight or loose their clothes should be. I don't make up rules about who can speak to who. I don't write magazines that tell deliberate lies about what God requires of us. I don't make up rules about the use of blood and then change those rules at a later date. 
I am only responsible for me. Your GB has made itself responsible for millions of people, but they have no proof that the responsibility is guided by God or Christ. 
Your GB has no love of people, only love of power over people. Your GB does not care about the victims of Child Sexual Abuse, they only care about 'their' money being spent in compensation. 
Your GB is prepared to sacrifice innocent lives to cover up the wickedness of the W/t and the JW Org.
Your GB 'cleans the outside of the dish or bowl, but leaves the inside full of disgusting things'.
And you Billy just worship your GB so much that you are completely blind to it all.
 

Yes Billy I'm married to one, but I don't trust her and she knows that. 
The children know that I don't trust them either. 
i once wrote on my FB page :-
Which is worse : Love based on lies, or, Hate based on truth. 
You see Billy i am not you. I do not think like you. I do not act like you. I do not have the feelings / emotions like you. 
When you and others, begin to see other people, as OTHER people, not as people like you, then you and others may just start to begin to understand that not all of us live by the same rules.
You are trying to tell me I trust my wife because I'm married to her. Wrong. The trust died many years ago. 
I have no love for anyone, no trust in anyone. It does not mean that I hate people, it simply means I have no feelings for  them. 
I demand nothing, I expect nothing, therefore i no longer get disappointed by anyone. 
 
 

Ok back from travels, so continued reply to Tom's questions.
When @JW Insider reveals a matter that would otherwise remain confidential, do you rush straight to your keyboard and tell your 900 friends?
No, I mainly upload 'news articles' direct as i find them. But the reason for starting the FB page was to get opinions from others. It hasn't happened much. But I'm not in need of 'limelight' by giving information that others don't have. I just make available on the page things that are general news items. I also advertise this forum in the hope that more people will visit here. 
 Did you make it when the opportunity was ripe? Did your testimony send school and/or government perpetrators  to jail? I hope you had that opportunity and I hope you came to enjoy some sense of justice because of it. 
I contacted Reading Council (using the Data Protection Act) and obtained some personal details of my time in the Home, but much of it was 'detracted', is that the right word, scribbled out anyway with black print. One page was completely blacked out. But I was told I had to use the 'Freedom of Information Act' to obtain details about other people / staff that ran the home at that time. However to gain that info' I had to attend the office, ask for files, find sections that were relevant, and inwardly digest the words, because I would not be allowed to copy, photograph or write notes concerning that information. That would involve a 130 mile trip to Reading, a stay overnight or two, and for what, just  read the info and not record it. 
Then the worse thing happened, the Jimmy Savile scandal started. It was all over the news about how he had abused children etc. It began to involve more 'well known' people and just escalated... So I stopped my investigation into the Children's Home staff etc, as it would have looked as if I was just jumping on the bandwagon. I know I should have done it all many years earlier but I didn't, and I wanted to do as much investigating myself as I could. So I never completed that 'mission'. Since the Jimmy Savile situation the Child Abuse investigations have grown more and more, about different people in different situations, including in religions. 
Do you also make clear that your hair-trigger sensitivity on this issue has nothing to do with Jehovah’s Witnesses?
If ever I talk to people about my past situation I do make it perfectly clear that it did not involve Jehovah's Witnesses. 
However, the link is that whilst I was still in a vulnerable state mentally / emotionally, I joined the JW organisation as it 'seemed' a safe and loving environment. It turns out that at that time, late 60's / early 70's, in some places, the Org was at its worst regarding Child Sexual Abuse. Many of the cases that have come into courts and are still coming into courts around the globe,  seem to centre around that era. 
But having been on here a while now, I have read comments from people that have also known about more recent cases. So although many of those cases are 'old news' it does not mean that it has all stopped. 
Hopefully that answers your questions @TrueTomHarley

@TrueTomHarley On your Facebook page, do you also post the background that you have bravely posted  here, background that accounts for your extreme sensitivity on the subject:
Just two points on this one comment from Tom.
1. The FB page is not about me personally so no i don't go into details about me. It was set up to try to get feedback from others that are in the same position as me, Ex -JW's still wanting to serve God.  I put up news articles but very little personal stuff. 
2. There is nothing brave about me giving personal details, it was done more in context as it was sort of hinted at by a previous comment. This page it seems has become more personal, people throwing mud at others rather that discussing subjects. If you think i am extreme so be it, that is your thoughts. From my viewpoint it is just that I DO HAVE personal experience of this so I DO KNOW how it feels and the results that never fade. Whereas many on here and in JW Org just see it as collateral damage.

I did say it's not a lot but it's a few people looking and reading what's there.  i can hardly put on a 'broadcast' can I ? 
And i can't start up a magazine, and I'm not up to writing a book, like you.  However there is enough news media /reports out there now thanks to all the efforts of victims, ex-JW's and others that have made things known earthwide. And whether you agree or not, i think it has made the GB / Org make changes. Changes that would not otherwise have been made. And on my 'travels' here and elsewhere (many will roam about) I have found out much more than I originally knew. It has been and still is a great learning curve.  

@TrueTomHarley  Um, the GB / org do not do social media, ok. But they do broadcasts.
But I'm sure I've seen evidence that when people want to talk to the GB face to face, to ask questions ect, the GB have refused interviews and conversations.  The GB seem to live behind locked gates. So how is a person to express their feelings or ask questions ?  Obvious answer is social media.  
Plus, many of us feel the need to warn other people about the dangers of the JW Org. Where is better than social media ? 
My FB page about Ex JW's has just reached :-  You've just reached 900 Page likes. Good job!
It's not a lot but i don't promote it and hardly upload anything to it. People are finding it. People are talking about it, so it does a small amount of good. If I can give a few people a little information about the problems in the JW Org the n I'm happy to do just that. 
We can agree on this one thing  “wisdom is proved righteous by its works.” Hence its easy to see that the GB are not wise in a spiritual way.  Of course they may have the 'wisdom of the world' with their high paid Lawyers doing their dirty work for them, just as the Romans did the dirty work for the religious leaders of the Jews, buy killing Jesus. 
Quote : The common view of opposers is that the Witness headship is telling members what to do,.... 
Tom, do you really forget that most people you call 'opposers' are actually Ex JW's ?  They have been there, witnessed it all. It's not hearsay it's real experiences. You know, more real than those 'experiences' they do on the 'platform'.  Who are you trying to fool  Tom ? Yourself maybe. 

work alongside people we don't necessarily trust. Children do it all the time. Some people say Look at those children playing together', but when you look closely you will see children playing alongside each other. Each child is doing their own thing.   
The secret is not to get emotional about it. Life can be very practical. Being retired I can choose what I do and when I do it. My wife chooses what she will do and when she will do it. Sometimes we choose to go places together. We share the housework. She cooks I wash up. She visits her mum and the children, i work on the cars and do the garden :) 
None of it involves trust or love. It is just practical living. 
As for people outside, I have no need to trust anyone, I'm quite independent at the moment.  Mixing with people does not involve trust. I go to auctions to view and sometimes buy,  i converse with the staff and others there but it does not involve trust. 
Think deeply for a while, how many things truly involve trust? Most things in life are just practical or natural things. 

I thought you said many JW's use the American Standard Version or something like that. Sorry if i misquoted you. 

I no longer read Billy the Kid's comments as I know he is a sick man and probably cannot help himself. 
God's word through Christ says we should forgive 77 times (continuously).  I've forgiven BTK for the way he has insulted me and therefore do not need to read any further comments of his. I do honestly believe that he is unwell and is best ignored as we cannot help him. 

Now't as strange as folk.  As olde Amos Brearly would say.