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JOHN BUTLER

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  1. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in The Incredible Desert Find: the Sinaiticus Sheepngoats, Destined to Update the Bible Canon   
    Haven't you finished that yet. Must be a big un. 
  2. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in The Incredible Desert Find: the Sinaiticus Sheepngoats, Destined to Update the Bible Canon   
    And I always thought that the JW org / Watchtower didn't have a clergy class and a hierarchy. 
    But it has both. The GB are the hierarchy and the Elders are the clergy class. 
  3. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in The Incredible Desert Find: the Sinaiticus Sheepngoats, Destined to Update the Bible Canon   
    Quote " Humans tend to like hierarchies of people, representative government, etc., in spite of the potential errors. "
    So you are now admitting that the GB are the hierarchy. 
     hierarchies a system in which members of an organization or society are ranked according to relative status or authority.        
  4. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Jehovah speeding up the work or increase. But increase or decrease ?   
    the clear answer as to why God allows suffering, the knowledge of what happens to people when they die, and even the reason that they die? He has forgotten all about it. 
    Are I see TTH is getting the Word of God, mixed up with JW org once again. 
    TTH seems to think that JW's have the monopoly on God, Jesus Christ, and God's written word. 
    My road does not lead to heaven Tom. If God shows me mercy and resurrects me then I will be here on planet Earth. 
    "One wonders what would satisfy him" Why does one wonder ? I've written it on here often enough. 
    A plain observation of the Anointed (spiritual 'Jew') that we should be clinging to. An organisation led by those Anointed that show proof of their being inspired of God. Such an organisation would of course be clean on the inside as well as the outside. Remembering the words of Jesus to the Pharisees. Wash the inside of the dish or bowl ................ And it would know how to use God's written word properly.
    Quote " It frequently happens when ones leave the JW faith. They lose every ounce of spiritual discernment that they once had, to become completely immersed with matters of the here and now. "
    It frequently happens with JW's that they are so blindly serving their masters the GB and it's orgs (plural), that they cannot see that the ones they serve have no spiritual discernment. And those said JW's cannot bare to look at the here and now as it is too painful for them to see how much of a mess their GB and orgs are in.
    Works both ways Tom  
     
     
  5. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Jehovah speeding up the work or increase. But increase or decrease ?   
    After all, with many religions, members may not actually leave, but how would you know if they did?
    Yes TTH, but with many religions you are not blackmailed into staying either. 
    In JW Org the blackmail is that none of your family will speak to you, your business may fail due to other JW's turning their back on it, your whole social life will be wiped out in one day. So due to this, many that are not brave, remain physically in. 
    I could have remained physically in and sat at home and done nothing. How simple that would have been. I would still have had all that social life  .  (joke). 
     
  6. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Jehovah speeding up the work or increase. But increase or decrease ?   
    There is church among Jehovah’s Witnesses but it is offset by a higher participation rate. After all, with many religions, members may not actually leave, but how would you know if they did?
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Total misuse of scripture. Back then there was only one Christian way to serve God through Christ. You were either in or out. 
    Now there must be millions of 'christian' organisations all pretending to serve God. 
    People become apostate to one religion by joining another. And so it is with JW Org. So until anyone can prove that the JW Org is the only way to serve God, then it's all hot air. 
    Basically JW's serve the GB / Watchtower / JW Org. That is not serving God through Christ. 
     
  7. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Jehovah speeding up the work or increase. But increase or decrease ?   
    Paul lamented in his day "For there are many—I used to mention them often but now I mention them also with weeping—who are walking as enemies of the torture stake of the Christ." Ph.3:18.
    https://biblehub.com/philippians/3-18.htm 
    I don't see the word 'torture' anywhere. Is it another word that the GB / W/t / JW Org added ?  
     
  8. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Jehovah speeding up the work or increase. But increase or decrease ?   
    BTK maybe seems to forget that Jesus was actually being disobedient to his physical parents by not remaining with them for the journey home. Yes his place was in the temple but at the same time his place was with his parents too. 
    But to compare children now to Jesus is just twisting the whole idea. BTK has a strange way of looking at things. 
    Jesus was 'born' as a Jew, a member of God's chosen nation. Children now are not part of such a thing.  It is all totally different.
     
     
  9. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Jehovah speeding up the work or increase. But increase or decrease ?   
    The JW Org / GB say that Armageddon is very close. They also say that Jehovah is speeding up the work in these 'last days'.
    Now, it seems I'm not one for knowing truth from lies, so people keep telling me, but this webpage/site seemed interesting to me.
     It seems to show more of a decrease in JW's, but more importantly it seems to show more of a lack of faith, or lack of action / 'works' of JW's. It also shows a large number of people leaving the JW Org. 
    If this video or page has been used before then I apologise for any repeat. But I thought it was of interest. 
    https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/statistics.php
  10. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Jehovah speeding up the work or increase. But increase or decrease ?   
    Couldn't you read the bible and figure that out for yourself ?  There are enough scriptures to tell you. 
    'A resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous'   
    Buy Billy thinks some of us here won't get any resurrection, BTK thinks we are already condemned. 
    I'd sooner believe God's words.  
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Was it unique to JW's and /or Bible Students that Christmas was an insult to God ? 
    But they kept on celebrating it for 30 years.
    Was it unique to the Bible Students  / JW's that smoking was against God's 'rules' or wishes ?
    But they kept on doing it for over 70 years.
    Was it unique to JW's that the Superiority Authorities were God and Jesus Christ ? 
    Oh yes but that was a lie wasn't it. 
  11. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Jehovah speeding up the work or increase. But increase or decrease ?   
    TTH says "The things Jehovah’s Witnesses have reinterpreted, or even flip-flopped on, are all superfluous things "
    Such as the 'Superior Authorities' for instance, and 'This Generation' for another. 
    And such as not all Anointed are the faithful and discreet slave, only the GB. 
    solidly established for over 100 years:  But altered many times in the process. Armageddon due in 1914, 1975 and now it 'so close' it's 'just around the corner'.  TTH you make me laugh. You are so blinded by your GB and all the other hierarchy in those two 'organisations'. 
    The org didn't even figure out the name Jehovah, they 'stole' it from elsewhere.  
    They are all trimmings on the tree, and not the tree itself.  No, the tree itself is Almighty God, Jesus Christ, the Anointed, God's written word, faith, love and mercy.  It does not include the GB or JW Org. 
    And yes the purpose of Jesus coming to earth and giving his life willingly was to give glory to God in heaven. And the one through whom any human will get saved is Jesus Christ. 
    Christ is our judge, having been given the authority and power by his heavenly Father.  
    Unfortunately the GB of JW Org think they are our judges. They add further burdens to the shoulders of others, and will not even lift a finger to help.
    The apostles said, recorded at Act 15 v 28 & 29  
    For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things:29  to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”
    Oh yes and look it says 'the holy spirit' which proves it was inspired. But your GB and hierarchy are not inspired are they ? 
  12. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Jehovah speeding up the work or increase. But increase or decrease ?   
    I think the Apostles did works to prove that they had God's guidance and that they were inspired by God's Holy Spirit. 
    I agree that we all need to trust in God through Jesus Christ, but I do not trust the GB or JW Org at this time as they seem to prove themselves unworthy of God's approval. 
  13. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Jehovah speeding up the work or increase. But increase or decrease ?   
    You are showing God, you don't have confidence in him to make judgment calls on earth.
    Or am i just showing the GB / JW Org that i don't have confidence in them to make judgements on God's behalf. 
  14. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Disfellowshipping use to be 6 months- now it’s 1 year   
    I never even knew there was a 'keep out' time. I cannot think of any scripture to back that up.
     
  15. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Let's Get It On - identify a cult!   
    In my opinion war is not  'the right thing to do'. All this about men being tough doesn't wash with me. 
    And maybe most of those men were brainwashed into believing they would die and go to heaven. 
    The war was about men and women being conscripted to kill other men and women. 
    Remember even some Germans didn't go to war. Probably not only JW's at that.
    Sorry James but you seem to have this thing about guns and men being tough. There is enough sh-t in life for some of us that we don't need war or guns to make it worse.  
     
  16. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Let's Get It On - identify a cult!   
    Well Jesus gave His life willingly, if you believe the Bible that is.  If you do not believe the bible then there is no level ground to debate on here. The bible says basically that we might face death because of our faith in God. 
  17. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Let's Get It On - identify a cult!   
    Quote @Outta Here : This process of coercive control creates followers who are controlled by or for the leader without regard for their own needs.
    One needs to be a bit careful about this idea I think. Because the scriptures tell us to put God before all things and even to risk our own lives for our 'brothers' (whomever they may be) 
    We know that Jesus willingly gave his earthly life to give praise and glory to his heavenly Father and to give humans a chance of everlasting life on a paradise earth. 
    One has to think about who their 'leader' really is.  If our 'leader' is Christ and he is leading us to a closer relationship with God, with everlasting life in view, then we must be prepared to face even death beforehand. We obviously need the faith in the resurrection to do so.  This is from scripture not from JW Org. 
    In my opinion the Watchtower  / JW Org are too big a business to be a cult as such. And being earthwide I see them more as a full on religion, even though they are heading in a wrong direction. 
    I mean the Catholics are earthwide and have the Pope as their leader but i don't think the Catholic church is a cult either.  
    To the point about the W/t being big business, they have shareholders. I thought shareholders were people that made profit from a company/business. You put money in and get more money out. But I suppose that should be another topic. 
     
  18. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Let's Get It On - identify a cult!   
    Quote @JW Insider Instead of just guessing, a person might be able to get closer to the answer just by asking 
    Instead of just quoting the bit you want why not quote the whole phrase. 
    What I actually wrote. Despite what SM and others may say.  SM wasn't and isn't a JW. He just uses info he finds. 
    I wasn't asking SM if he was a JW, I was stating that he wasn't / isn't a JW, and therefore only uses info he finds, and he has no personal experience on the matters. 
    Then he questions the FACT that i have 'hands on' experience of JW Org / Society from the 1970's onward. Yes here in the UK only but at least it is direct first hand knowledge, not just 'something i read online'. 
  19. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Let's Get It On - identify a cult!   
    To quote SM Which goes back to what I had said here and months ago. Some JWs misunderstood and did as they did while others did not, 
    Which kinda supports what i said.
    Many Jehovah's Witnesses did believe that Armageddon was happening in 1975. 
     
  20. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Let's Get It On - identify a cult!   
    Many Jehovah's Witnesses did believe that Armageddon was happening in 1975 
    Despite what SM and others may say.  SM wasn't and isn't a JW. He just uses info he finds. 
    My own brother is an Elder and was a JW from the 1960's onward. He personally knows, or knew at that time, people that sold their houses, gave up businesses, and did full time ministry. He has related to me, of cases whereby people were almost suicidal with worry, because they had given up everything in a material sense, so when it didn't happen they were penniless and some were homeless. 
    The Org may not have put it into print, but they deliberately spread the rumours about it happening. 
     
  21. Like
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from Shiwiii in "WATCHTOWER APPEALS TO THE SUPREME COURT"   
    I'll give you one rude word for that comment James, Bullshit. I do not normally swear on here but your comment is just an excuse. 
    The comment also shows a lack of faith in Almighty God. 
    Remembering that the JW Org is nothing like the Nation of Israel. In that Nation most people were born into it and had to live under the LAW.  In JW Org most people are NOT born into it, they are volunteers. They, supposedly, want to be there. 
    So what you should have is 8.5 million people willing to serve God properly in what SHOULD BE an inspired organisation, led by inspired Anointed brothers. 
    By saying that the GB / JW Org / Watchtower Soc 'are operated beyond their design capacity,'  you are saying that it is not God's organisations and not inspired or even guided by God's Holy Spirit. 
    So how does it make it 'the only game in town', when it's not even in the running ? 
    It would have to be God's chosen Organisation, being inspired / guided / run by God's Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ, who would be operating through willing, humble,  God fearing, true, honest human servants.  
    Oh dear multi fail by JW Org. 
     
  22. Like
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from Noble Berean in JW Lawyer on Disfellowshipping and Shunning   
    A disfellowshipped person is completely SHUNNED. AND any person that leaves the JW organisation is completely SHUNNED.
    Grown up children are asked to leave the family home. Grown up children that do not live at home are completely SHUNNED. 
    Any person can walk into a Kingdom Hall as it is for public to visit and listen to talks, BUT a person that is being SHUNNED will not be spoken to by anyone, and they are made to feel dirty and evil. They are put to shame by everyone else in the hall. It's horrible and definitely not Christian. 
    But JW legal dept will of course believe that deliberately lying is part of serving God. Yes, it's called 'spiritual warfare', and they are told it is right. 
    How low the JW Org has sunken. What shame it brings on God Himself. 
  23. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in REMOVAL / DESTRUCTION OF THE GOVERNING BODY   
    I do find it kinda' funny that JW's love to talk about billions of people being removed / destroyed / killed / murdered at Armageddon. Billions of people.
    And for what ? Well JW's say it's for not serving God. But they will also say it's for not being a baptised JW. 
    Well we do know for sure that God either deliberately had, or deliberately allowed, the destruction of Jerusalem in circa 70 C E, and for what ? 
    Well the Bible shows us it was for not serving God properly, and for killing God's son. 
    BUT when I suggest that the Governing Body should be removed or destroyed, oh dear, the JW's they get really upset ya know. 
    Governing Body = 8 men.   Jerusalem = how many, men, women and children, thousands of them. 
    But oh dear, now it would be murder. So what was it back then ?  Your see JW's live in a dream world, wrapped up in cotton wool, they just cannot face the real world.
    The Governing Body do not serve God properly. That is clearly visible to anyone that honestly wants to see it. 
    The Governing Body are destroying JW Org, and if JW Org is God's true Organisation then the GB are deliberately working against God and against God's intentions. 
    Humans that deliberately work against God and cause problems for God do not last long on this Earth. 
    The Bible shows much proof of this, such as those that opposed Moses. 
    I am expecting the GB to be removed, one way or another. But only if God really wants to use the JW Org / Watchtower soc for His own purposes. 
    If God does not want to use those Orgs then it would seem sensible for God to set up a new Org for His purposes. 
    The only problem with the GB being 'removed' is that JW's will call it a 'sign of the times' and 'persecution', but if God causes the removal then I'm sure He will put them straight. 
    Those people that say that the GB cannot be removed / destroyed, are those people that worship the GB. And those people that worship the GB may probably need removing too. 
    The world is wicked, it belongs to Satan. The Earth is wonderful and it belongs to Almighty God.
    For God to save this Earth and for Him to save a few humans too, drastic things have to take place. Drastic things have to take place.
     
  24. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from Shiwiii in "WATCHTOWER APPEALS TO THE SUPREME COURT"   
    Those at the top should have firstly refused to keep it all quiet. And should have demanded a meeting to do Bible based research to see where the scriptural backing came from. Of course there was no scriptural backing so the whole thing should have been turned around immediately.
    If the top brass were too scared to take action then the Elders of the congregations should have seen through it, and totally refused to carry it out. If the Elders were as you pretend, being guided by Bible principles, then how could they keep such disgusting things, dangerous things, unloving things, things that dishonour God, secret ? 
  25. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from Foreigner in REMOVAL / DESTRUCTION OF THE GOVERNING BODY   
    I do find it kinda' funny that JW's love to talk about billions of people being removed / destroyed / killed / murdered at Armageddon. Billions of people.
    And for what ? Well JW's say it's for not serving God. But they will also say it's for not being a baptised JW. 
    Well we do know for sure that God either deliberately had, or deliberately allowed, the destruction of Jerusalem in circa 70 C E, and for what ? 
    Well the Bible shows us it was for not serving God properly, and for killing God's son. 
    BUT when I suggest that the Governing Body should be removed or destroyed, oh dear, the JW's they get really upset ya know. 
    Governing Body = 8 men.   Jerusalem = how many, men, women and children, thousands of them. 
    But oh dear, now it would be murder. So what was it back then ?  Your see JW's live in a dream world, wrapped up in cotton wool, they just cannot face the real world.
    The Governing Body do not serve God properly. That is clearly visible to anyone that honestly wants to see it. 
    The Governing Body are destroying JW Org, and if JW Org is God's true Organisation then the GB are deliberately working against God and against God's intentions. 
    Humans that deliberately work against God and cause problems for God do not last long on this Earth. 
    The Bible shows much proof of this, such as those that opposed Moses. 
    I am expecting the GB to be removed, one way or another. But only if God really wants to use the JW Org / Watchtower soc for His own purposes. 
    If God does not want to use those Orgs then it would seem sensible for God to set up a new Org for His purposes. 
    The only problem with the GB being 'removed' is that JW's will call it a 'sign of the times' and 'persecution', but if God causes the removal then I'm sure He will put them straight. 
    Those people that say that the GB cannot be removed / destroyed, are those people that worship the GB. And those people that worship the GB may probably need removing too. 
    The world is wicked, it belongs to Satan. The Earth is wonderful and it belongs to Almighty God.
    For God to save this Earth and for Him to save a few humans too, drastic things have to take place. Drastic things have to take place.
     
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