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Equivocation

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Posts posted by Equivocation

  1. 45 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

     

    If you don’t mind hanging some innocent people rough justice is very efficient way of keeping a town orderly.

    AND consolidating and entrenching the authority and power of the Sheriff’s department.

    It’s not the fact that people are being hung, it is that they’re being hung Not in accordance with the law, due process, common sense, and a deep sense of justice. 

    Even Jesus said to the whore … “Go your way and sin no more”, which if memory serves, the Society removed those scriptures from the NWT.

    It’s in all the other Bibles I checked.

    John 8:1-11 IS MISSING!

     

    Not in all other Bibles lol 😆. Non Bible canons were removed from some revisions, the KJV kept it tho.

    John 7:53 to 8:11 is The Adulterous Woman passage (Pericope de Adultera) - The fact  is that it isn't Bible Canon making it spurious and false or an exaggerated story. There are 267 Greek manuscripts, which are the earliest versions, and are considered the most important by textual analysts, and none of those 267 contain this passage about the Adulterous Woman. Newer Bible translations that were compiled, and wrote after the more ancient manuscripts were discovered, either omit/removethe passage or add a note or reference along with the passage, stating it was not found in the more ancient manuscripts. The same case can be made for other passages and or verses, even forgeries.

    So there was a reason why you won't find it in the NWT or any revised Bible, in the notes of some translations, it explains to you why.

     

    Some people like to mess around with whatever Paul or John wrote lol 😆 

  2. 3 minutes ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

    I never said Paul was wrong or that there isn't a place for removing wrongdoers from our association. It's the modern-day process used in the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses that has apostasized from what Jesus and Paul and John said.

    I never said you said it, I asked in question was Paul in the wrong for taking action? The modern day practice is still similar to how it was in the early days. Disciplinary action isn't simply done by one person, but from the looks of it, a few members in the congregation who act as elders, such as Paul.

    Dismissal of wrongdoers isn't something apostatized. In fact, to not do so at all, there are already examples today, posted my a few others over the years.

    8 minutes ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

    Where in the Bible is there instruction for a two or three elder committee secret meeting judicial hearing Pharisee-style? There isn't. Justice used to take place in the city gate or the whole congregation would know, like how Paul let everybody in the congregation know the details of what was going on with that guy who was sleeping with his dad's wife. There was no hearing to get the guy reinstated. When he stopped sleeping with the lady, then they welcomed him back.

    There were people in the congregation that had some roles to keep the congregation community clean and maintain pure worship. Yes, that may be the case, but some people were not repented and never brought back into the congregation. This is why I pointed out in my last comment that there are those who are repented and those who are not, but regardless, we clearly see a disciplinary action done in the congregation as noted in Paul's letter.

    If you were an elder, be it back then or present day, you'd of course welcome back a person who is truly repented, but one who isn't and remains a problem you wouldn't bring him back knowing he would cause problems. This, in turn, can damage thr community.

    15 minutes ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

    If someone claims to be a brother but treats others in an unloving way by teaching to shun family members, don't let that person come in your home because then you're encouraging perpetuation of that antiChrist doctrine.

    Only congregation ties are cut. If someone is removed from the community, they don't really communicate with members, but they still do with family members, like I said, cultures do play a part in this and I already gave you legitmate experiences. Even if the person is Expelled, they can still see talks and partake in meetings, JWs do not practice censure. Even in commentary, this is also mentioned and these commentaries did not originate with the Watchtower. 

    But by the looks of it, you seem to assume that we practice censure.

    It should also be known that regular former witnesses and Apostates aren't the same type of people, Apostates are the only ones who really do seek repentance. Former witnesses, some of them, at least try to cling on to some values where Apostates do not.

    20 minutes ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

    Paul said that in our day in the congregation there would be some taking the lead who say they have godly devotion but prove false to its power. The governing body says they have godly devotion, but then they teach people to shun in an unscriptural way. We are told: "from these" (people like the GB) "turn away."

    So you are saying that the GB came up with shunning..... When this was something associated with Expelling in a religious sense, even outside of the Watchtower? 

    In regards to shunning, current witnesses do not really associate with anyone Expelled, unless the person in question is indeed seeking repentance and recognizes what they have done was wrong. I even mentioned elders do make an effort to speak with these people, since, these types of former witnesses are more receptive to speaking vs Apostate who refuses to repent. I brought this up some time ago too. 🤷🏾‍♂️

    25 minutes ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

    It doesn't mean to abandon the organization bearing God's name. There are wheat-like teachings and there are weed-like teachings. They have grown together. It just means that we need to reject the weed-like ones.

    So why assume Christian values and teaching it, from the article, although it being a core teaching of true Christians, as false? Wouldn't it make follow and promote what Jesus taught?

    This is what I don't get. 

    26 minutes ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

    Jesus is coming to remove all the weedy teachings and weed-like people at the appointed time near at hand. In the meantime we need to stay unsullied from the satanic teachings that have infiltrated the organization like the leaven in the dough. Disfellowshipping doctrine as currently practiced is one of those satanic teachings.

    Ofc, Jesus will indeed come to finish the rest, but that doesn't mean we should remain idle as a community deteriorates because of a problem. We are imperfect but it doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

    If expelling is satanic then it contradicts why Jesus established it to begin with, let alone practiced by thr congregations. Makes you think what would happen if Paul didn't expel those who practiced sexual immorality. Even today, since Christendom abandon Expelling, it resulted in marks of false Christendom to plague the congregations, examples like the teaching of God being genderless, same sex marriage, interfaith and a list of other things. 🙅🏾‍♂️ To not deal with problems, you invite them and some negativity splashes over to others indirectly. 

    The irony of it all, if you factor out us Jehovah’s Witnesses, the people you meet while preaching, will mention the same thing, regarding a Godless society.

  3. 3 minutes ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

     

    Respect and honor for brothers in authority positions needs to be balanced with respect and honor for the Highest Authorities, Jehovah God and His Son Christ Jesus.

     

    Following imperfect men without thinking is not the way to follow God and Christ. (If the first-century Christians followed Peter when he was shunning Gentiles, where would we be today? Actually, we're in the same place...the GB teaches to unscripturally shun all kinds of people..."If the blind follow the blind, both will fall in the pit.")

     

    Jesus ate with tax collectors and sinners. He talked to them before they repented. He said if someone sins 77 times a day and repents to forgive then that day, not to wait for some committee a year later to give you permission to speak to them. 

     

    The organization leaders like to say how they "progressed" from voting democratically for leaders to a more refined way, but read this definition and the following examples to see how similarly they fit the modern organization processes and ways of governing...

     

    "Dictionary

    Definitions from Oxford Languages 

    so·cial·ism

    noun: socialism

    a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."we want a real democratic and pluralist left party—one which unites all those who believe in socialism"

     

    Jehovah's Witnesses view saying the Pledge of Allegiance as an act of worship, and rightfully so.

     

    IMG_8176.jpegIMG_8177.jpeg

     

    (from https://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm )

     

    If you changed a few words, the pledge could read...

     

    "I pledge allegiance to the JW.ORG and the Governing Body Faithful Discreet Slave for which it stands; one ORG indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."

     

    Jehovah detests idol worship. Jehovah is jealous for His Holy Name, and rightfully so.

     

    "We must obey God as ruler rather than men." Even if those men are on the governing body. Humans are made of dust, the same thing graven images are made of. Jehovah is the Only True God.

     

    "Little children, keep yourselves from idols."

    You are saying this but previously you said, Jehovah’s Witnesses worship thr GB as if they are above God and made an assumption based on the titles of a few articles when, any glance of what is there, tells a different story. You also said the GB said to follow them and ignore God and Christ, I asked where was this said but you never gave an answer to that so, this still remains in the assumption vs what is actually said or mentioned in the articles you listed, I don't see how Christian Values and Bible study amongst family members is false.

    There is no surprise that some people show a little bit too much honor, however, you wouldn't catch them swapping Jehovah God out for someone else. 🤷🏾‍♂️ Those taking the lead will give provisions but never do they subscribe to Godhood, equality to God. 🤨

    Also we don't do idol worship. My last comment, I mentioned idols, images and anything carved isn't associated with true worship, especially in meetings. I even said that some former witnesses would try to state otherwise, but ultimately, refuted, which @Jesus.defender did, although he post some of the stuff here, he did PM some of us here.

    The good thing is many who learn a thing or two from us Jehovah’s Witnesses is that they have abandoned forms of idol worship. It is also an example of the difference of identifying marks of a True Christian vs current Christendom. 

     

    If you are unsure what Christian values are, the article in your screenshot mentioned that it is essentially principles followers of Jesus hold as important, and these values are practiced by members of not only the congregation, but a family and or household. Some of these values stem from making good decisions, knowing right from wrong, even maintaining morality. So it is confusing to see something like this seems negative in what you were implying previously. Is it because the GB repeated what Jesus said that makes it false? 🤔

  4. Just now, AudreyAnnaNana said:

    @Equivocation, I follow God's commands and support His Son's commands. I am sure you would agree that that means taking Bible verses in context. 

     

    The specific verses used by the organization to attempt to support the current way of applying disfellowshipping doctrine are discussed in context in this post...

    It is one of several verses, and from the comment,several passages, even explicit examples in the Bible itself. The commentary used was not of Watchtower origin however they themselves also cited it, and the context and literal practice is brought up, even with the word Congregation (Church).

    As for Matthew 18:17, if you didn't see it, there was a reference. Congregation or ekklesia can also mean the members in the congregation including ordained elders, and or individual Christian congregations. Matthew 16:18 is also cited where Jesus not only mentions the members of the congregation but in context is refering to anointed Christians who are also called living stones.

    Even in example, going back to the Corinthians, Paul, essentially an elder, was informed by a regular congregation member about problems in Corinth, and Paul went to address it by means of letters, Paul clearly was a fellow member along with Corinth, the Romans. Etc. as part of the Christian Congregation that is made up of anointed ones and regular members.

     

    So the question is, if excommunication was an issue, why did Jesus establish it and why did Paul actually remove wrongdoers from the congregation if, in your words, it is a wrong practice? And secondly, you never explained how anyone, and or any Jehovah’s Witnesses should deal with a wrongdoer, knowing unrepentant sins can ruin a congregation community.

    Paul excommunicated Christian who were unrepentant and continued to practice sexual immorality. Paul also excommunicated Hymenaeus and Alexander. Was Paul in the wrong?

  5. On 5/23/2023 at 2:03 PM, Space Merchant said:

    @Equivocation Yes, it will be a repeat of what happened in New York (100% and I put my hand on the Bible for that), but this time in Washington DC, which, as stated, isn't a place to be fooling around, in fact, it is the bane of why protesting and riot groups even exist, i.e. BLM (Black Live Matters), and it spawns and influences characters like Milo Yiannopoulos who is now noted as an agent of chaos by some, despite even his rivals being far more destructive.

    Let's hope no congregation raids again (for Peter's sake, since he was verbally attacked), there is already a phenomenon of raiding and disrupting gatherings taking place. Not to mention all the crazy stuff happening around it.

  6. 2 hours ago, redHarmonioussparrow said:

    OTHERS WHO MERIT HONOR
    13 Those related to us in the faith certainly merit honor and respect. This is especially true of the elders who are taking the lead. (Read 1 Timothy 5:17.) We honor these brothers regardless of their nationality, education, social standing, or financial status. The Bible refers to them as “gifts in men,” and they are a key part of God’s arrangement to care for the needs of his people. (Eph. 4:8) Think of congregation elders, circuit overseers, Branch Committee members, and the members of the Governing Body. Our brothers and sisters in the first century had high regard for those appointed to take the lead, and we feel similarly today. We do not idolize well-known representatives of the Christian congregation or react in their presence as if angels were standing nearby. Still, we do respect and honor such brothers for their hard work and humility.—Read 2 Corinthians 1:24; Revelation 19:10.
     

    @redHarmonioussparrow Bingo, 100% 👍🏾

    7fb.gif

     

     

    @AudreyAnnaNana My knowledge on the UN is not that limited lol, but yeah that sums it up, however like I said people like @JW Insider know their stuff, especially both @Arauna and @Space Merchant. 🤷🏾‍♂️.

    There was 2 other people I forgot to mention, his name started with a K and another guy who had a profile picture of a black cat sporting a dress tie, I think his name was Outta Here.

  7. @AudreyAnnaNana 

    Unfortunately, Excommunication DOES have some contextual meaning and usages in the Scriptures, and in the Christian congregation (there were people literally excommunicated in the Scriptures; having congregation ties cut). There were points, even Space Merchant made on here that solidifies that, even in example of verses that shows such. Like the early Christians, the JWs apply it (Jehovah’s Witnesses practice Expelling for a reason, it wasn’t something random concerning wrongdoers), we don’t do total censure though, which was a claim someone made a while back. The practice of Expelling (Excommunication or Disfellowshipping) of incorrigible wrongdoers is a clear and explicit teaching in the Bible. As some mentioned before, or in your pervious discussion with SM, it was pointed out that Jesus Christ was the very person to establish this as a requirement for the Christian congregation, to not even recognize this, is a telling sign of what I met about identifying marks of a True Christian, in terms of knowing what the Bible says or what Jesus says. For example, Matthew 18:17, which reads: 

    [17 If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector.] 

    The context of his words points back to how judges and officers represented the nation of Israel in dealing with judicial matters under the Old Law Deut. 16:18. In Jesus’ day, offenders answered to the local courts made up of Jewish elders, and later, men would be appointed by the spirit to act as judges in each Christian congregation. For these offenders would end up being treated as a tax collector of whom the Jew had no dealings with. In the Christian congregation, or in this case, among Jehovah’s Witnesses, Expelling, according to commentary, is an exercise by the Christian Congregation, is not merely founded on the natural right, possessed by all societies, nor merely on the example of the Jewish Church and nation. It was instituted by our Lord… The meaning of this is, cease to have religious intercourse with him... Regard him as obstinate, self-willed, and guilty... We should disown him as a Christian brother...This is the only way of kindness. This is the only way to preserve peace and purity in the church… Christ’s teachings repeatedly showed that a willful incorrigible reprobate would be “cast out” from true worshipers, especially in the “last days” during his second presence. And that “his servants” would be commanded to carry out this command. 

    Obviously, the Apostles understood that Christ commanded the expelling of obstinate sinners since Paul showed that it was done with Christ's authority. Expelling can be permanent or temporary regarding congregation members who were cast out of the community. This practice, specifically mentioned in Matthew's Gospel (Mt.18:15-17) and the Corinthian correspondence (1 Cor.5:5; 2 Cor. 2:6), served 2 purposes. 

    Although congregation ties are cut, Family ties remain (usually depends on the culture in most cases), for, there are former Witnesses, some whom I ran into, who said they’re expelling was justified because of some of the thing they did, some things they do not want to go into detail about, these former witnesses are different from the Apostate types who are very rude and aggressive in some cases, even towards former witnesses who do not share in their thoughts and ideas, in two situations, I had to defend the bullied, in this case, another, regarding someone’s girlfriend, who was studying with us at the time, being the subject of attack by Apostates, resulting in a very angry significant other and an angry community.

     

    Anyways those 2 purpose, being, 

    [1] It protects the community from the harmful influence of the sinner (1 Cor.5:6-7). 

    [2] It reminds the sinner of the sin (2 Cor.2:7) in the hope that repentance (7:9) and redemption occur. 

    Expelling can be done instituted via various actions (ofc used in the correct way), for example, serious matters, sexual sins (1 Corinthians 5:1), Unrepentance (Matthew 18:15-17), Facetiousness (Titus 3:10-11) and speaking heresies (Roman 16:17), so we, as True Christians, would need to stop mixing company with such persons. Or other practices that are unclean and or immoral. Anyone who is truly showing repentance, we are to forgive and take that person back, this is why there is a reinstate process to this too (James 5:14-16; Acts 17:30; Proverbs 28:13). The action deals with sinners and or wrongdoers, and it are done to dealt with them quickly and seriously for both the health of the community and the spiritual health cast out. 

    One of the identifying marks of True Christians and a faith is to follow what Jesus said, as is follow the command of the one who sent him, therefore, within a community of Christians who worship the True God together, we are to remove willful sinners on the grounds of sin, even serious sin. We already see the state of those who do not even follow what Jesus command, and now look what entered into their church to fit in with what is seen as normal in today’s society. 

    Just wanted confirmation lol. I bring it up because unlike everyone here I do not log on here as much, but how you constantly post remind me of Witness, in a way, even Jesus.Defender. I think she is a nice person too, but as others have pointed out, even others who aren’t even religious, points out she is misguided. Since we are all talking about core teachings, there were some things that she has said that are both contradicting and or did not make sense in some cases. She was also unfazed and seem supportive of the very people who raided my Hall some years ago. 🤷🏾‍♂️

    Indeed, God has not change, but it should not stop us from following his command, as well as the command of his Son. To fail on trying to keep the community clean would only result in problems later on, and upon his return, judgement for not taking action.

  8. 11 minutes ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

    @Equivocation, I just got back from the 2023 Convention of Jehovah's Witnesses. Some people who have known me and claimed to be my friends for two decades were willing to treat me as if I am invisible for no reason at all except that they follow the commands of men ahead of the command of God.

    Well that is unfortunate, but from the looks of it, maybe you were excommunicated? That disciplinary action made by elders results in congregation ties being cut, but it doesn't stop you from attending meetings or listening to talks. That action wasn't made by man, but if you really look into where it came from, it came from Jesus and later applied by the early Christians, for instance, Paul who instructed the Corinthians. Even if someone is excommunicated, elders can make the attempt to meet with and talk to the person to see what's up.

    15 minutes ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

    If you can't see that the GB is worshipped and that God hates it, you soon will. Jesus is coming to remove their idol worship. Jesus is zealous and jealous for Jehovah's holy name. When Jesus receives the kingdom, everyone will know how much Jesus hates that idol worship of the GB. The attack on religion by the UN will start at the Bethels.

    But here is the problem, you implied Religious worship regarding the GB, and ignore what the articles you screenshotted states, you even said that the GB themselves ignored Jesus and to follow them alone, likewise to ignore Jehovah, this is why I asked you specifically where the GB said this but it seems again you are going upon your own assumption. Just from discerning alone you seem to be confusing Religious worship and honor, even brushed over a few examples and what @Araunasaid.

    As we young people say, that is kinda sus 🤷🏾‍♂️.

    Last I checked, us JWs do not use idols or graven images in worship to God and honoring his Son. I think some apostates tried to equate logos to idols but, like what happened to @Jesus.defender, that failed.

    As far as I know there is only a few people here who are very very knowledgeable about the UN itself, @JW Insider is one of them, I learned from him about some stuff, as well as from @Arauna, for I had no idea what the WEF is until she explained it alongside Agenda 21 stuff or all this Globalist stuff that, to be honest, sounds like a Legion of Doom kind of group lol. Then you have the guy who is literally in the crossfire and war zone of all things UN, Babylon and the Beast, and people with agendas, @Space Merchant, who ironically, although cryptic at times, his words have some sense, and often times is true, for example Ukraine, China and the Education system, he was right about the UK, his community tends to know things that are vital from the way he talks on here. The United Nations is a threat but I doubt they would go for bethel first. If you made attention to what those 3 mentioned over the years, you'd realize it. I am not as knowledgeable regarding the subject matter as they are but I know a bit.

    But that last remark is kind of sus, you sure you aren't @Witness or Pearl? 🤔 because they said similar but got their information on the UN, their actions, etc. mixed up. Just saying. 🤷🏾‍♂️

    Well, back to the question, where did the GB specifically said what you mentioned now about following them but not Jehovah or Jesus? 🤔 After all, if you said they say this, clearly you saw it somewhere. 

     

    By the way, my example from earlier is regarding this story, not only I cited the title, but gave a brief summary of what happened and the aftermath on how these people honored the pilots- https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-metro-hudson-miracle-landing-20190114-story.html

  9. 21 minutes ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

     

    What really is a true Christian?

     

    How much "doctrine" type teaching did Jesus focus on teaching when he was here on earth during his ministry? How many times do we hear him talking about elderpowersetup/1914invisiblecoming/thewordneutrality/threepersonjudicialbackroomdisfellowshippingwithextendedtimereinstatementprocess/etc doctrine in the gospels?

     

    .......

     

    What did Jesus talk about the most? What did he illustrate the most?

     

    Love.

     

    Being a Christian isn't about making up details and procedures like Pharisees and adhering to the manmade checklists for every little thing in the universe. It's about being loving, like Our Father is loving. (Jesus said his yoke was kindly and load light and refreshing.)

     

    The person who has no clue about Bible prophecy and yet is super loving is closer to God than the person who knows every detail about prophecy and is cold or partial in love. The person who still ignorantly celebrates Christmas and slips up on their drinking problem but is humble and loving is closer to God than the person who "turns in their time" every month and gives a "perfect seamless talk" but is cold or partial in love. 

     

    It is not wrong to know all the details about Bible prophecy, that is a good thing we should seek for such knowledge, and it is good to discard pagan celebrations, of course, but the point is, we have to remember the more important things. Love is the most important thing.

     

    God is not partial. He knows the hearts. He is a righteous judge. Jehovah is coming to make all things clear. Praise Jehovah.

     

    "If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels but do not have love, I have become a clanging gong or a clashing cymbal.  And if I have the gift of prophecy and understand all the sacred secrets and all knowledge, and if I have all the faith so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.  And if I give all my belongings to feed others, and if I hand over my body so that I may boast, but do not have love, I do not benefit at all. Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous. It does not brag, does not get puffed up, does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury. It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth.  It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails. But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with. For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially,  but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with.  When I was a child, I used to speak as a child, to think as a child, to reason as a child; but now that I have become a man, I have done away with the traits of a child.  For now we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face-to-face. At present I know partially, but then I will know accurately, just as I am accurately known.  Now, however, these three remain: faith, hope, love; but the greatest of these is love."

     

    (1 Corinthians 13)

     

    God is Love. His children must love too. That's the resemblance, how people can say "you look just like your Father!" Jesus said so.

     

    "Let me give you a new command: Love one another. In the same way I loved you, you love one another. This is how everyone will recognize that you are my disciples - when they see the love you have for each other."

     

    (John 13:34,35 The Message Bible)

     

    Jesus' love wasn't just for fellow Jews. It wasn't just for those in good standing with the Pharisees. It wasn't just for perfect people. Jesus showed love for those who were shunned and of other faiths. He commanded that we do the same.

     

     

    "Now I am giving you a new command—love one another. Just as I have loved you, so you must love one another. This is how all men will know that you are my disciples, because you have such love for one another."

     

    (John 13:34,35 JB Phillips Bible)

    You should be aware of the identifying marks of a True Christian, example, True Christians aren't peddlers of God's word however false Christendom are as such, so much so to even hustle the word of God, at the same time they profane places for worship, i.e. using places of worship for recruitment for other organizations and or political ones, polling, etc.

    That what you posted several people on this form already dealt with using the Bible, and some basic history (1914, expelling, etc.), so it is not any good to use again, well here, since the only person who constantly came on to cause problems for not only JWs but anyone who doesn't believe Jesus is God (Triune) was @Jesus.defender. He sent me this links relating to some of that stuff also. Speaking of which, he's been absent for some time, realizing also @Witness, although not a fan of some of the things Pearl teaches which often times moves away from core, being absent too. 🤔

  10. 1 hour ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

    I really, really, really wish you were right, @Equivocation - I wish it with all my heart, but unfortunately I know better - I know for a fact that most of the people in the organization do replace worship of Jehovah with worship of men. I will explain what I mean...

     

    Jehovah said that we need to obey Jesus. Jesus said to show love for our neighbor.

    If that is the case, in the article I put in bold text, can you show me or anyone else here if your implication is true.

     

    Other then that there are brothers and sisters who do show a lot of honor but I doubt they show religious worship to anyone other then the very God they preach about. In comparison we can use Sully Sullenberger and Jeffrey Skiles as examples (The Miracle on the Hudson), for what they did, they were given honor, but given way too much honor by a few, but the people who do it do not consider either Sully or Jeffrey above the GB of aircraft, that is, the FAA.

    From the focused article:

    https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/w20010515/Building-a-Spiritually-Strong-Family/

    Second article from your screenshot:

    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2003805


    So far, I don't see anywhere where it is implied that the GB demands worship in the same sense as God. Or demand superiority in the same sense as Jesus. 🤷🏾‍♂️

    Although they, as the early Christians like Paul, Timothy, Titus, etc. Take the lead, none of them even ponder the idea of being equal to or like God himself; which Paul cited in parallel to Jesus in Philippians 2:6.

     

    1 hour ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

    The governing body says we need to obey what the GB says ahead of what Jesus says. The governing body says we need to show hate for our neighbor.

    Where did they say this specifically?

    I'm aware in obeying concerning spiritual provisions and matters (Hebrews 13:17 with CONTEXT ofc), but never have I seen them say to strictly follow them and ignore Jesus, or Jehovah for that matter, which wouldn't make sense at all lol 😆

    It's a contradicting statement also because of the Command given to Christians (not sure if you answered that one when I mentioned).

    1 hour ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

    It doesn't matter what the rest of any of those articles say, the point was that all the ones that mention the FDS/GB and "obey" and "be thankful" are weaving in false worship with true worship. It's the oldest trick in the book.

    Actually it does matter. You said in your other comments about implications of religious worship to the GB and you reinforced that to others here, like @Arauna. To say it doesn't matter now wouldn't make sense if you posted those screenshots. 🤷🏾‍♂️

     

    Weaving false worship? The articles, if read speaks on honoring those who provide spiritually. What is so bad about having Bible study with family and younger ones, let alone  cultivating in faith concerning the Bible? I mean, the Corinthians honored Paul for stepping in to resolve an issue in the congregation, as did others, since he and a few others provided that assistance, and never made themselves above Jehovah or Jesus. In addition, some of the articles also encourages values to be applied to an individual and or a family, even a congregation as a whole, this is what some refer to as Christian Values, which, is indeed part of core worship as @Space Merchanthas always talked about, even others, @JW Insider or @Anna to name a few on here from time to time. So, to ignore that, and rely on assumption, can be a problem.

    Everyone likes Christian Values and believe it or not, be it that core teachings is spoken by the GB or not, it is definitely what this country needs.

    1 hour ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

    "Is it really so that God said you must not eat of every tree of the garden?

    That is why it is important to know the identifying marks of the Christian faith and how it is vastly different from false Christendom.

    1 hour ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

    Jesus can discern all things. He will be a righteous judge.

    We might not be judges, but Christians are capable of discerning, this includes both you and me, or anyone else here. Even be, rational or logical, in some cases.

    What I was referring to, which I thought you'd say it, the 2 routes were those who follow Jesus' command mentioned in Matthew 28:16-20. There are Christians who follow this command, and those that don't. SM already mentioned the Great Commission in this thread. Those that follow the command also understands what Matthew 24:14 implies.

  11. 5 minutes ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

    The religious institutions will be removed, the false doctrines cast aside, and then the light will shine brighter than ever. True worshippers of God will be gathered together as one for Jehovah's name, and they will worship in spirit and truth. Jehovah's name guarantees it.

    This may be true, but as @Space Merchant said before and I guess here, if you can't recognize core teachings from what isn't core, you are going to have a problem, probably why he gave you that question about different faiths in the first place. You can see @Srecko Sostar's answer about the New Covanant (assuming it was conjured by the GB) vs @Arauna and SM's, both knowing where it originated from, and that is only ONE example. 🤭

    Although False Christendom is near it's end, it takes a discerning individual to know what are the true identifying marks of a True Christian or a True faith vs marks of a false Christian or a false faith, this goes for those who ultimately have bad intentions, like people who falsify forgiveness before God while at the same time manipulate others for a gain, something I posted a while back. 

    At the end of the day, yes, some false teachings are to be cast aside but as Christians we were given a specific command, that we must do in this day and age. Doing so or refuse puts Christians on 2 seperate routes.

  12. 1 minute ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

     

    I am not sure what you are referring to - do you mind clarifying what you mean? I apologize for not really knowing what you are getting at.🙂

    It is a simple question regarding what you posted in your conversation with @Arauna. So that is where the curiosity sits.

    From what you posted before, you were implying that we worship the GB as if they were above God himself, even @Arauna raised a brow to it, and the other guy with the long name (can't "@" him for some reason) even questioned you. You then brought up a series of screens to imply worship of a religious kind, even compared using the Shintoist/Buddhism practitioners, even went as far as to use the English definition whereas if any of us already know "worship" has several meanings, just as @Space Merchant.

    As for the articles listed in your screenshot, when you read it for context, shows something entirely different from what you were suggesting. 

    Example the first article in your screenshot, titled, Building a Strong Spiritual Family. When clicked and read through, the focus is helping to grow Spiritually, as a family and about children; them developing in this sense, in turn builds the family. The discreet slave, in this case, like the first century Christians, do what they can to provide in, in turn, assisting with the Spiritual growth of a child, Matthew 24:45-47, i.e. Bible study with kids, encouraging to read about God everyday, Joshua 1:8, just as Jesus had done as a child. Even in comparison, it is no different in a school board or committee (also a GB in that field) taking a similar role in the educational growth of a child. So, just as early Christians were thankful, even honored, of people like Paul and a few others, doesn't mean they were worshipped religiously like God. Same case today. There may be some who show way too much honor but never in their right mind would they replace the Most High for a follower on the same route as they are on. 🤷🏾‍♂️

  13. @Space Merchant I don't know if she answered it but it is obvious why many faiths even us JWs exist and why only a few actually try to figure out what is true or not. We believe we have the truth in what you state as core teachings. For example, the biggest one being why we do not follow the Trinity, as well as not follow Binitarianism. Jesus made it clear, as his followers, that he is the som of the Living God. Paul was right on where Christianity was going and we see that in history, eventually leading up to other faiths rising up knowing some crumb of truth. A lot of people like to bash Bible Students not realizing that in that era they, among many, were still learning about the Bible and prophecy, so when a mistake is made, more study is done. Even Christians around that time were very very eager of the second coming of Christ so can't really blame them from learning and applying afterwards.

    Today, more and more people are learning what is the truth about God, so that is definitely a good thing. This goes hand in hand with some traditions, now abandon by some people when they realize the history.

    When we Jehovah’s Witnesses go out and preach there are legitimately a lot of people who wants to hear about what the Bible teaches or even expand on what they want to know.

  14. Just now, AudreyAnnaNana said:

     

    Hi, @Equivocation ! Do you mean the screenshots from the part of the discussion about worship, where we were talking about how the GB/FDS is worshipped in organization? I think that's what you're referring to...

     

    If so, it is extremely likely that I have read all the highlighted publications in those screenshots from 2002 to the present (I started studying with Jehovah's Witnesses in 2001 and was baptized in 2002 and always religiously read everything that was published as it came out.) And I've gone back and read a lot of the older publications from prior to that time, but I can't say I've read every single article there. I know the GB/elders are worshipped as idols or gods. I know what those articles are about, where they are leading the flock. I wasn't making an assumption. I know from experience how those publications indoctrinate people to worship men rather than God.

     

    As far as "just be careful next time" you don't have to worry about me - I am strongly determined to never ever make the mistake again of putting worship of men ahead of worship of God.☺️

    So why the assumption vs the article? 🤔.

    This isn't the first time someone brought this up, I remember this being done in the past on here.

  15. @AudreyAnnaNana I mean, highlighted words is one thing to convey what you assume, but reading what the article(s) says for context is ANOTHER thing. For instance, even if you factor out faiths today, Jehovah God did have people, even a mediator that cares for the others in a spiritual sense, even provide if need be. Anyone of that level do not consider themselves as a God above or equal to Jehovah himself, likewise with the early Christians who provided for the Congregation, namely Paul, who would never ponder on something like that, so much so said the same thing concerning Jesus in comparison to God. Christians do however honor people taking the lead, as seen by early Christians and present day, but never do they religiously worship someone.

    This is why it is important to read for context, read what is said and the verses used instead of adding what you assume. I can read an article about talking animals in the modern day, but the context of the article doesn't even suggest literal talking. And speaking on this, even my professors have stated that there are some people who only read titles or look for keywords to make an assumption on something without knowing what a story or an article is about.

    Just be careful next time.

  16. So what they're planning is essentially a repeat of what transpired several years ago? Seeing that my Hall was among the ones hit, what they plan to do in, of all places, Washington DC, it will probably have issues. If I am not mistaken, there is some SERIOUS consequences for disruption of any religious services in the state. In the Borough, not only did they disrupt religious services, but it angered people in the vicinity, and actually got a former Bible student involved as well as someone's boyfriend who was very VERY mad. From the website it says why they are doing this, which they have a freedom to do, but you have the other parts which seems like a Trojan horse type of thing.

    Washington DC is also on high alert of all types of protesters after the January 6th day. Someone mentioned some factors involved, one thing I do see is that this is very close to the presidential run. Speaking of Washington, some of the stuff that the would be protesters have an issue with, some people, even those at the Captiol do this themselves, i.e. to Expel someone. The child abuse stuff, as the Bible student said, you have to deal with the politicians, laws, state, for that and so on, at the same time these same people they want to be heard from are releasing vile people back into the streets after committing crimes, and they end up doing the same thing, I mean, these same criminals also end up living  nearby schools and other public places anyway but the officials won't tell you that. 🤷‍♂️

    Hypothetically, this can also affect other faiths in the area if it goes too far and resultin other problems. 

  17. @Space Merchant Those images. The person in the picture, who at the time was 14, is Troy "Puppeh" Wells (now 21), the person sitting behind him, also walking out with him, is 24 at the time Cinnamon "Cinnapie" Dunson (now 31), let's just say a lot of disturbing stuff and a weird love drama stuff involving others who later found out about the grooming. It isn't a surprise if there were people defending her, even a former JW because there was a lot of dudes who were attracted to her and blame people for hating women. I remember that because one of my cousins use to partake in those competitions a while back he kept texting me about this when the Nintendo company took action against those events. Time flies too, this was a while back too. But a good comparable example. 

    But yeah, often times some people can be hypocritical. They also play favorites, like with something bad happens in one group, they hate and attack, but for their's, they're silent. Problems in general, people should be trying to tackle issues instead of making it worse for some people. But it is good to see some people out there who are applying things the right way.

     

    @Moise Racette  Agreed, but if you think about it, some people don't really listen when others do. If you tell a crowd of a hundred people to do something very critical and you give warning, 50 will do it, the other 50 will not, anything the people who fail to listen do in a negative way causes problems. I dunno why some people firmly believe some institutions do not have warnings for some things when they do, even going as far as to take things out of context. 🤷🏾‍♂️

  18. SM and the GB? 🤔 🤣 I don't think any of the governing body members are debate oriented, confrontational millennials who takes issue with Christianity today to a high degree because of the Romans nor any of them focused heavy on fighting misinformation/lies let alone has some knowledge of the Quran/Islam lol 🤭

    Anyways, in the Bible it tells us that Jesus was the very first creation by Jehovah God, reasons why God is mentioned as The Father, of which everyone is aware of.

    Jesus being first and direct creation by Jehovah makes Jesus the firstborn of all creation as mentioned in Colossians 1:15, and the beginning of the creation of God and lastly the only-begotten Son of God.

    Furthermore, Jehovah God continued to make all the rest of creation through Jesus, his firstborn Son who is the Master Worker. Some also believe Jesus is The Angel of the Lord (Angel of Jehovah God mentioned in the OT).

    I see other people put up more references from the Bible about it.

  19. On 2/17/2023 at 3:11 PM, Moise Racette said:

    The report is suggesting 2 separate incidents. An investigation will conclude if these 2 incidents are LINKED. Meanwhile, the county attorney has made its recommendation on the firearms. Those charges include an arrest for them. If they are out on bail, that's the law until they end up in court. If they do a plea bargain, and the county finds out the other incident is linked, the plea bargain will be voided, as a judge will not allow that plea bargain to stand.

    If it is proven that that shot fired killed a person, then that charge will be added to the current charge. Police departments can't afford to speculate. The question for them now is, was it premeditated?

    There's also the whole mental breakdown factor. Mental Illness being on the rise has caused a lot of people to ultimately take some kind of action on others even groups before they target themselves. Either that or it is mixed in with some sort of online influence that's for sure. 

  20. @Pudgy The sad thing is, whenever there is a school shooting, politicians make it political. Then all this talk about second amendment, NRA, etc.

    When in school we always had drills for these things, even in college. A brother I know from another congregation nearly had a school shooting situation or what was believed to be one back in 2007-2008 when he was younger. The only hot situation he was in was when he mentioned that in a wood shop class, a mental disturbed kid who was bullied nearly took out a another student with a saw on purpose but was stopped by him and a few other students.

    But yeah I don't think shootings will stop, but you can try to prevent it with good action. But as we can see with this one, many scenarios whereas it could have been prevented, the FBI most likely knew. Many times the police had an opportunity to deal with the threat but as you can see with that issues also, then the blame game. I dunno if true or not a police officer got one of the kids killed and another struck a kid by accident, not sure but I'd have to read the information again.

  21. Gotta admit SM, you were spot on about what is taking place this year. Crazy and wild stuff is taking place where kids are both victimized and sexualized so much so that in the new normal of things today's society has influenced a lot of negative things.

    I remember you mentioned this Desmond person. I found out who you were talking about and it looks like this is being amplified and pushed, even recently something that I couldn't unsee popped up on social media. Then there's the grooming aspect of it all.

    At the same time God's Word is being attacked even more not only to push the idea to accept what society sees as OK, but anything Biblical lawful is also being attacked, i.e. ROE vs Biblical views.

    I guess many didn't take the "We are coming for your children" practitioners too seriously as a threat. They said they were joking but they essentially engulf the majority of the higher education system.

  22. The Propaganda is getting insane by the day. I'm on break now but this semester, the mentality for most concerning Ukraine is absolute bonkers, so much so people who say other would refer to these people as radicalized. One of my professors dyed his hair blue/yellow to support Ukraine.

    But so far I have been looking more into the history, and I saw that this all traces back, well most of it, to former Ukraine president Viktor Yanukovych, and the Euro Madian riots of 2014, and the Donbas War.

    What makes this even more concerning, I did see some Ukrainian (and Ukrainian Americans) sport the Azov Battalion insignia on a part of their clothing or bag. Then there is the unnecessary hate for Russians because of Putin.

    Arauna and SM mentioned Russia's allies and it looks like they are making moves too it seems.

    What I find interesting is I had seen others who are not one of JWs refering to Russia (since they are friends with Syria) as the King of the North.

    Even tho you can ignore all this stuff, it still has an effect indirectly and it's big time. My cousin was angry because of gas prices, just to fill up he pays close to $100+ now which is crazy. Thank goodness I rarely use my car lol 😆 

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