Equivocation

I was going for another saying for "all talk, but no action" kind of thing lol. I see the only thing that did change was the setup of the forum itself.

Yes, we all do - and that is both well and good. But like I said, Splane did have a point there, if understood. It is not only on listening to or speaking about false rumors, but on how damaging it can be to someone directly or indirectly, which can commit to harm and or injury, even death; for a recent tragic situation, a simple glitch in a system resulted in a death last year. It can also lead to problematic association and division. But Srecko, I've asked what you have done so far about child sex abuse? I'm not saying this to be rude, I am saying it because like some of us here you talk about it most (in various media, not just here) when it comes to this taking place with the JWs, so it is only right to address that question to you, since you mentioned CSA to @Thinking. and to be honest, I was expecting some insight threads on the matter coming back, there was only one and that was some years ago, and the usual continuous talk of CSA, WT, GB show that happens to pop up spontaneously in random threads - like this one. You really don't have to read the below, it is only there if you have time to spare, it doesn't really bother me. I can give you an example of what I've been doing. Don't know if you know this but we do have Watchtower articles about child sex abuse and what a parent and or guardian should do to protect their children [note - ircc something similar, even mentioned here about ARC, of the sort was but rarely talked about on the internet]. Not only it is advise to read and take in whatever information that is helpful, but we discuss about it whenever we get the chance. Not all Jehovah's Witnesses are oblivious to child sex abuse, and or the topic of immortality, for, all of us know, you, me and everyone here, man is imperfect and because of that there is sin. Even outside of the meetings, I talk about this in college, and yes, people are aware of child sex abuse, but they think with enough logic on what to do before it happens and what to do after it does, mainly when it comes to raising the issue - the subject of child sex abuse itself in general. Believe it or not, everyone takes a different action, sometimes bad ones, especially if they are not well versed in child sex abuse and prevention. But when you know how to deal with the problem, there is benefit. Also Justice is also isn't always clean, but that is a discussion for another day. Last month, we had some students the Rutgers campus, who joined up in my class and she made things, pulling from my notepad: So all in all, doing something actually reaps it's rewards, and it is a benefit, be it to the congregation, or outside of it. What some ExJWs do not realize is some people out there know these problems and will take the right action, they are not like the majority of people who do not know what to do - and these people may learn a thing or two if they are aware and someone to teach them or direct them to applying something beneficial, even for younger kids. You might not like the fact that I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses, for I remember when I was a high schooler, I had a few spats with you because of our first interaction. But now, I think and do things with logic, and understanding, positive decision making and had apply these things. Had to make this known, mainly from experiences and what I've learned and what I continue to do. You don't fit to do these things, we really can't do much because of the pandemic, but we, even you have a foot on some platforms. Things can be done.

Well I did address that, but I added some people can pick and choose sometimes about Russell. As for the apostasy, mainly during that time, it was tough. The Great Apostasy is a concept within Christianity, identifiable at least from the time of the Reformation, to describe a perception that the early apostolic Church has fallen away from the original faith founded by Jesus and promulgated through his twelve Apostles. Everything seems to point back to the early-mid years of Christianity. Someone mentioned it is like a war going on, even today, relating to the ministry. Before the pandemic started, their were some opposing views to nontrinitarian theology.

Friend, it still doesn't excuse taking the events of ARC, using it as a tool to spread false rumors. I had seen people take parts out of ARC to jumble it up with something else. To Splane's point. Don't you think that is a little bit worrisome? Giving people the wrong ideas? Also, I addressed that, well since you are the only person here right now lol, what have you done so far about child sex abuse? You mentioned CSA&P in the past, this was before I was hitting the books with a high schooler mindset.

Yes, however, most ExJWs would say otherwise, I think in the past you made an opposite point. Perhaps for some, when it fits their needs for that week, they'll state it. The great apostasy was is mentioned here - Great Apostasy - Wikipedia Around the same time they became active, those that make up the Great Apostasy were around also. Among them Prosperity preachers, or, something I learned today, New Thought Christianity. There were opponents of Restorationism, which dominated the US in those days, especially in the case of some abandoning Restorationism in favor of other theologies. So I did you the favor of providing you the wiki link. Yes - and their still, quoted from the wiki link, millenarian restorationist Christian denomination with nontrinitarian beliefs distinct from mainstream Christianity. If we had adopted creeds, the Trinity, immortal soul, etc. that would be a total deviation of restoration of Christianity, wouldn't you agree? Now that I think about it, would have been strange to be preaching the Trinity lol. But I am still asking this, if you are in your last comment talking about those who continued or changed; 19th century? Legit core teachings in general.

I think I'll be the pink elephant in the room with this one.... I finally have a break from college, coming back, and it is still pretty much the same prime suspects lol 😲 visible shock 😲 I take it no one has really changed that much? Did anything different instead, just say JW this and that? Same topics, etc? lol But seriously, has anyone ever changed or did something so far? Did something positive? No barking, but biting wise?

@Thinking's point was some things can easily be made a false rumor. No one is oblivious to child sex abuse at all and it is very unfortunate that in an imperfect world people act out their sin. So regarding CSA, anyone can take a story, and mold it into something else. Since we are all mature here, the truth of the matter is in today's world anything about sexual relations can be weaponized, used as a tool to commit harm and or injury. Sadly, this is the case with child sex abuse too. This is why it is important for guardians and or parents to not only talk to their kids about the dangers, but how to protect themselves. I mean, child sex abuse has always been talked about over and over and over again on this forums, but rarely do people take action on the matter, especially the ones who constantly bring it up, sometimes without warning. I'm sure you have access to various social media, by not teach and explain to people how to protect their children instead of being this way - I mean, you did bring up CSA&N a while back, why not apply their teaching? I dislike child sex abuse, and I am sure you dislike it as much as I do, but taking steps to help, reach one, teach one is beneficial. So Splane is correct on false rumors. Because anyone can take a story and make it apocryphal right out of the gate before any facts are gathered - something of which was done with the Royal Commission.

I haven't gotten it, nor do I have a need for it. Plus I haven't been sick for years, a positive thing because I was raised in a family who weren't fans of American Foods, and the chemicals found in some products. A lot of the food I consume is grown in a garden, my aunt has a lot of grown vegetation and has animals which she takes care of and prepares for meals herself. tía knows what to do. The J&J is a mixed bag for some because there are some people who did succumb to a reaction, even blood clotting. One of the reasons why many speak with a doctor first before they make the decision to take the vaccine, and even the general public are in the same boat. The vaccine only increases protection, it does not make you immune, so over time it will wear out. So there is a possibility of some people needing to get more dosages, a 3rd, possibly 4th shot, and or it can be a yearly thing. It does make you think tho why not just gun for the virus instead of evading it? Perhaps some people have a reason to keep the fear-o-meter jumping. I don't know where you live, but The Unites States, and parts of the EU, Middle East and Asia are conflicted, even divided on the whole virus/vaccine thing. At the end of the day, it is a matter of choice when it comes to the vaccine, and it is ironic too.

Srecko, you didn't get to this part - Restorationism - Wikipedia So are you talking about anyone who continue after what happened in the 19th century or the ones that changed? Some people actually abandoned Restorationism for the Triune God theology, I am thinking to had the one part about creeds regarding that.

@Jack Ryan I don't know who gave you that idea. We're still preaching, and from my experience for the last few months outside of school and work, there are people legitimately trying to find us (despite what Ex Jws say), either for meetings or a Bible Study. At times we really don't have to do much. There are people out there who generally want to learn what the Bible really teaches, who Jehovah God is and his son, Jesus. So the pandemic bogging some people down, but not all. I think we raised up in the number of adherents too. My congregation has more people, a few friends of mine had a few newcomers, even some who are in the United Kingdom, France and Spain. So we haven't stopped, Matthew 24:14 is taken seriously, and to our Russian brothers and sisters, their faith has been strong enough to prevent their situation from breaking that spiritual armor. In my experience, met some pretty cool people in the ministry via letter writing and zoom, likewise with people at my college. @Space Merchant To this day, your knowledge and experience still intimidates people to the point of succumbing to Gnosiophobia lol. I agree with the history which you explained about what New Thought was, I was not aware that they originated from a Spiritualistic new age theology. As for Televangelism, that is also correct, not only it boomed in the 1950s in the United States, but it was in total dominance in that era to now. A paid spot on a random channel was what boosted it. The Prosperity theology is odd because it teaches that God wants people to be prosperous, especially financially, through it, power. Adherents to the Prosperity Gospel believe that wealth is a sign of God’s blessing and the poor are poor because of a lack of faith. Also I'm not aware of who this Chan guy is, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Bible and his message is weaponized to demonize and to convert people. @Thinking As usual, seems like the same prime suspects - taking what someone said and molding it into some mindless Frankenstein. But it is best to ignore it, or just speak the truth. A lot of people seem to be in favor of lies and deception because it fits what their view is, they never want to hear both sides of the story, this is why Brother Splane was right in key points of his talk, especially when it came to apostasy. Someone here mentioned he misused Matthew 5:25, 26, which I don't think he did. to handle things quickly and he mentioned things handled in a just matter with truth, and the point was focused on Jesus urging his disciples to be about settling matters quickly; this is general, like disputes. He was also right about Satan causing division, and essentially leading bad association in proximity of good persons - I can attest to that because of a recent situation whereas in a chat about the Olympics, someone asked where everyone was from and a brief note about their background, even faith, the second I mentioned I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses, out of nowhere, an apostate appeared lol 😅. You never know. But the other people there argued with him, and soon after booted him. They then asked who Jehovah God, and just like that, I told them. Some of the people were not as religious but stayed to listen, some asked for verses, and I just left them with a few verses, one of the verses being James 1:13. So in a situation like that because of an apostate who lashed out randomly, it resulted in a few small Bible gems for people to remember. I had another fun experience with preaching over zoom regarding a heavy metal dude, that is a story I'll save for another day. @Witness Well he isn't wrong. From what I am seeing, it isn't a matter of lumping terms together, Jehovah's Witnesses are Restorationist, if I recall, he has been saying that for a number of years and gave ample information to back it up (for none of us can forget colorful text, citations and quotes lol), he kept saying "roots" indicating a sense of credibility; they're not random unknown terms. It "isn't his term", in fact, he linked you the history. What he linked you, about Restorationism, it tells you just that, and the main source states: "Jehovah's Witnesses is a millenarian restorationist Christian denomination with nontrinitarian beliefs distinct from mainstream Christianity." Backed up by prominent sources like Rodney Stark, Beckford, even some notable and credible sources. Restorationists aren't just against the Trinity/do not believe in the Trinity, but they are also the types to try to apply practices of the early church, or take steps to restoring practices in the modern day, even when it comes to Scripture and translation, this appears to be the case. There is a difference between Restorationist Christians and New Thought Christians. So calling Jehovah's Witnesses or anyone from Prosperity Preachers is not only a lie, but it shows, as he puts it, a total disregard to the history of either. Prosperity preachers are an adversary to not just Restorationist, but to nontrinitarians, so in reality, to me, and to you, we are seen as a threat. Simply making assumptions on the matter is essentially giving them a win in their book. I do wanna be the person to do that to them, and I genuinely believe you do not want to do the same too, let's not give them that win. Some key differences: We believe in the commission - preaching of the good news, they believe that God gives riches and wealth in abundance, using Scripture to increase their personal wealth. We believe Jehovah God is the one True God. They believe Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is a person, also God. We do not believe in the Immortal Soul Doctrine, but they believe good people go to heaven and bad people burn in Hell; believing the soul is immortal. We believe the ability to have visions died out with the last of the apostles, they believe they can have visions, speak in various tongues and literal heal people or expel demons. We do not celebrate Holidays, but they do, and on the holidays, they reap wealth for not the benefit of the Christian congregation expenses, etc., but for personal gain. We believe we are under the New Covenant. They do not believe in the Covenants, and simply mix-match them for their own benefit. The list goes on. Also, it was said before, but what is behind Restorationism is Subordinationism. It is understandable as to why Prosperity preachers would like to throw rocks in our direct, the main fact of our view of Christ Jesus. Just be careful for assuming terms, when often times the root of an legitimate thing can be traced back centuries. Always, stay frosty with the research, should you even consider it.

Seeing that a lot of peeps here are from around the world, just wanna know how you guys are holding up? I was always on lurk mode because I am busy, so I was bored today. For me I am busy with virtual classes now, which are dreadful. The brothers and sisters are doing fine, as well as family. Some of our friends and the people we preach too are doing good. With the vaccines out there is a lot of fear in the black and latino communities, even outside of it. 2 of my professors are against it, but like all others, they say it is personal choice. Anyways.... How about you guys? The pandemic is taking a toll on some peeps directly and indirectly. To my Latinos and Latinas Viendo que mucha gente aquí es de todo el mundo, ¿solo quieren saber cómo les está yendo? Siempre estuve al acecho porque estoy ocupado, así que hoy estaba aburrido. Para mí ahora estoy ocupado con clases virtuales, que son espantosas. Los hermanos y hermanas están bien, al igual que la familia. Algunos de nuestros amigos y las personas a las que predicamos también lo están haciendo bien. Con las Covid-19 vaccine, hay mucho miedo en las comunidades black y Latin communities, fuera de ellas. 2 de mis profesores están en contra, pero como todos los demás, dicen que es una elección personal. De todos modos .... ¿Qué hay de ustedes?

On other news,, the concern right now, well on these virtual campus streets, is that some students are for or against the vaccine. Some even scared. From what I understand too is blacks and Latinos fear it the most from the people I talked to. Although it is a choice there's no telling how it may effect people too. Other than that, trying to dodge the Rona, in his boss phase 2 stage, is like dodging bullets, like Neo. Some areas in NJ they're limiting things.

Human Sacrifice? That is a stretch Matt. 😬Seeing how long this has been going on, I doubt a small number of people is causing damage to the Russian population. This is more of, well, a specific group that doesn't want competition and said group has many many allies, even other religous leaders.

Erm.... Christmas? Dunno man 😬, for you see... That isn't my cup of tea for a multiple reasons, primarily Biblically. I am good with pleasing Jehovah God. Isn't better to be cool with Jah? Also that video.... I seen that guy before, he isn't always 100%. If you check his comment section you can clearly see some people against him. Also there is proof it is pagan, SEVERAL PEOPLE HERE GAVE THAT INFORMATION. And we all know Jesus wasn't born on December 25th because the American Calendar and the Jewish Calendar are different. Jesus' day of birth is unknown, however, due to a number of evidence we find in the Bible, it is most likely that Jesus was born around Autumn [Fall Seaon]. And the shepherds were out. And it isn't just us Witnesses who dont partake in that holiday, there are many others. Half the people in my class don't celebrate it,, even the teacher, although he is not religous he believes that Christmas connects to urban legend and spiritism. Anyways, on other news, Home School isn't fun and I don't think I'll be on campus anytime soon.

@4Jah2me Well amigo, if you scroll up, the discussion between you guys is clear. Going back to JTR, he is well aware, me even, of how people like him take child abuse in general, counting everything. That is not true. Be it you are one of Jehovah's Witnesses or not, especially if you are someone who has been teaching children to fight against child sex abuse, you'd know. Child sex abuse is really a big problem around the world, this includes The United States of America where there is a type of culture that promotes pedophile like behavior and over sexualize children. I don't know how old you are, but in my case, I see it all the time in social media and the idea being promoted and embraced. Not sure if you are into social media tho. Well that is your experience. Like what Spacey said, you will have some Jehovah's Witnesses that are not aware or even trained on child sex abuse so if a case does come up, they don't actually know how to handle it compared to those that do, and in my case, my congregation is a blessing because we not only worship Jehovah together, but we do everything we can to pass on lessons to be applied, likewise with the Latino culture. So our Elders and your elders, although the same faith, differ from each other when it comes to handling things. As for your experience, it isn't mine and if it was an negative one, sorry then, but I don't know how a lot of the people in your country do things. Well from the day he challenged JTR and me, it was all Bible based when it comes to helping children, only about 5% was from protection services on helping children. Helping children does not mean going into the world, you really have to double check what being part of the world means. Anyways One thing he did point out is the abuser often target specific children, points on safeguarding was brought up, in short, knowing how to fight this problem you have to be knowledgeable. I figure this is the same case with the number of child abuse cases in Australia. Also What I said to you was not to disrespect you, but it is the common way people tend to me regarding problems, be it the gross sin we are talking about right this moment or other things like violence, confrontations, etc. For instance, if you, me, tom, spacey, and the others dealt with a child abuse situation, I can guarantee you that the outcome would be different for each of us, mainly if the abuser is extremely stuble with his actions unless you are aware of the signs such as constant gifting, grooming, etc of the child, the practice of keeping secrets between the abused and the abuser. Well that depends, there are some Jehovah's Witnesses in your country that does help out. We don't ignore our neighbors, we do what we can to help them. But like I said, I cannot speak for everyone, and what Spacey brought up, it applies to them too because there's no telling how someone would respond to a situation and how yo handle it verses not knowing anything at all, so in a sense, a fight, freeze or flight type situation. So child sex abuse, some people, even some Jehovah's Witnesses, can deal with the problem in a correct manner whereas others can't, whether they know about abuse or not. What Spacey is pressing is Scripture based wisdom, which is indeed a weapon against child abuse. In my case, there are people who know about child abuse but are not one of Jehovah's Witnesses, and they pass their wisdom to, others, if they want to know how to fight it, I simply give them information from a publication. It is up to the person on how they want to use the information and if they truly want to or are fighting to reduce child abuse in every pocket on the globe. Well disfellowshipment does cut congregation ties, as for your family, that is a blessing, it is always a blessing to have people close to you. Well I don't know them, however, if you knew the Jehovah's Witnesses I knew, they would take the time to understand where you are coming from, granted, some Jehovah's Witnesses cannot do this verses those that can. Well I am talking you lol, however, I can't really provide you with much other than what is being talked about, I'm a kid compared to all of guys here. You have every right to speak your mind about child abuse, however, like what Spacey pointed out you can do whatever you can to help out as well as confront child abuse in the right way. Looking at your comments, I don't know what happened at the Hall you were in but you are packing a jar of anger that stretches even outside of child abuse. I only talk about child abuse when the subject is brought up, but since I am well aware of it and understand the signs and all that stuff as well as comfort people, that is what I can do, that is all I can do. Errr.. What do you mean going out into the world? 🤔. To be no part of the world means to not participate in anything that involving Babylon, we have to maintain neutrality as to not take sides, i.e. Republican/Democrats and a list of other things. I don't see how you are getting thing idea, can you elaborate and be more clear about it please? Thanks.

Jajaja, I remember this dude from the show Sister Sister. My cousins grew up watching this guy, along with other classic shows 😁 But of course, sometimes we had to watch it in our language.

@Space Merchant The thing is not everyone puts things into application. Like the example from a while back you mentioned to JTR and I about teaching child about strangers. Application is a plus, there's no doubt in that and concerning child sex abuse is a problem, I cannot speak for others, but helping out does play a role in reducing it. I don't understand as to why 4jah2me gets aggy about something that is positive. Also people ARE like that when it comes to critical issues, even child sex abuse. Those publications are just random examples, but I am sure people can find more information on jw.org, if not there, other available information found on the internet with a simple Google Search.

@4Jah2me I don't think Spacey is blinding anyone especially the fact is that due to a lot of the things he says covering child sex abuse, he so speaks of his experience, i.e. helping children to learn what child sex abuse is and how to see the signs and all that is a major plus👍🏾. So what he is saying is 💯 true and it is not just with Jehovah's Witnesses, but people in general, all over the world. We can take you for example - You practically mention child sex abuse all the time, but you haven't taken action whatsoever, well, from looking at the conversation between you and spacey, you ignore the very point he made, then you went on to say that someone who has experience with helping the general public know about child sex abuse, knows nothing at all, although false, but that is what you pressed. Spacey is the opposite, he not only speaks on child sex abuse, but he has done something about it by teaching not just children, but adults about child sex abuse and his actions actually caused positive growth. So in short, both of you speak about it, but only one of you, in this example, spacey, has and continues to take literal action on child sex abuse in general, heck, he even challenged me and JTR on this a while back. So as for the publications, like what was pointed out, people who read them understand what child abuse is and understand the signs of both the abuser and someone who has been abused. Even outside of the publications, this is something that is practically, especially in different cultures where the bond between a parent or guardian and child us strong. Likewise with us Jehovah's Witnesses, like the general public, some of us know and take action, others know but don't take any action because they don't know how to execute a plan against the problem, and then you have those that clearly have no idea of anything at all. By the by, our elders at our hall are capable of dealing with the issue, so to throw all elders into the same basket is kinda silly. Don't know why you voted down something that is true 🤔 unless you have something to say that would be much appreciated, 4jah2me.

@Space Merchant Well these are examples, random ones, but people can choose to read them, of course they don't have to read any of our publications, but the information isn't too far off, and there is a lot. https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/g19931008/prevent-child-sexual-abuse/ https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101976522 https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/g19931008/about-child-abuse/

Yahweh and Jehovah are fine for the English speaker. Some people also prefer Yehovah, Jahweh and other names that points to the YHWH. You can say whatever, Jehovah knows who is calling his name in prayer through Jesus. 😁👍🏾

@Space Merchant @4Jah2me Tbh, some people in general think that, well since we are talking about child abuse, they think that oh this happened to this family, luckily it didn't happen to mine or they merely do not get involved. A friend of mine said that anyone who abuse their children in some way, they will suffer consequences, if sex or violence abuse, well, the person pays for it with their life, and sometimes getting involved is risky, but it depends. Some people will think I don't know about child abuse at all, it's a real thing, and as someone pointed out, even for us Jehovah's Witnesses, some of us are not oblivious, we know things. While preaching, I did run into someone who did mentioned child abuse and he was not pressing about it, he told me what am I doing so it doesn't happen in our congregation, I told him straight up on what needs to be done, and we do teach people about it, we even had a talk about it and a Watchtower study a while back and we often get together to talk about subjects too. That same guy, I did give him a publication regarding not just about child abuse but teaching children. I don't know how you guys were raised, but I come from a strict Afro Latino household lol, this was before I became a JW. 😁 Can't speak for others tho. And I am sure you two are aware we do have publications on the subject.

I second this. Even during the pandemic, there are those we preached to still contact us via phone or letters, having some Bible based questions answered. Also sometimes, it opens room for studying and doing research. Some of the most common things we run into in our ministry is today's situation, the economy, the pandemic, and the protesting. Sometimes we are often asked on why Jehovah's Witnesses maintain neutrality, and or they tend to ask you directly, so we, by means of researching, studying and knowing these things, we can give answer, as well as show them examples and explanation of things from Jehovah God's Word found in the Bible. Preaching may not be the same, but hey, we are still doing the work. The only cons of this pandemic is I ran out of magazines and tracts in Spanish, so I usually ask if they want it digitally, they accept, but for the people who are not tech savvy, they also accept print outside of a magazine or whatever subject they want to know found in other material. All and all, there are a lot of people who want to know more about Jehovah God, his Son Jesus and the Kingdom, in addition to what God's Kingdom will provide for mankind.

Well Black Lives Matter is everywhere and their influence spreads like quickly like free coffee hand outs at the local wawa lol. But seriously, even before the pandemic, before the home schooling and what not, their influence affects even students. Although I don't take sides like this extreme far left or right business, I do shed a cookie of opinion, but saying something that is right doesn't sit well with some folks. My buddies pop's store got looted and ransacked when the riots broke out, it is both crazy and tragic, now the man has nothing, the only thing that holds him is friends and family. Also class of 2020 was fun, was busy and I can see it is the same old same old on this foums jaja 😁 But about in all serious tho, situations like this reminds me of the Luke 22:9-11, 2 Timothy 3:1-5 and a few more. Closer to the last days, but you have to endure and build up your faith. 👍🏾

What confuses me is you have news corp saying stuff, but others are talking about arc. Also I don't recall JWs surpassing others who had a talking to by arc. Surely, there is more information out there, or is this still ongoing? The more information that comes out we can see who is telling the true, what is correct and what is incorrect but dudes out here making assumptions too so that needs to be watched, being cautious and all 🤔

Someone mentioned this book to me and even recommended it. The person told me it was something that Jehovah's Witnesses must read. Just from a quick glance, I could already tell that is was 100% apostate material, not to mentioned the heavy content of false teachings and convoluted information. To spacey's credit, it is exaggerated from start to finish. She also says she's an Evangelist, however she has some colorful language in her book and horrendous remarks that is enough to make Jesus shed a tear. Lastly, at the very end, she is trying to promote as well as recruit Jehovah's Witnesses and or anyone who is reading her book. No disrespect to the woman, but she's lost her marbles lol 🤣