Patiently waiting for Truth

@James Thomas Rook Jr. It is clear from the Bible that God works THROUGH the Congregations. But CCJW congregations are fed by the GB through the Watchtower, which has a history of lies and deceit and mistakes. It has been proven to deliberately misquote others such as scientists etc. It has promoted false hopes many times. It now seems to use all and any world event to promote the panic that 'the end is here' and with that it promotes the false idea that a person 'must be a baptised JW to be saved'. All this even when the GB admit to NOT being inspired by God. Frying pan or fire James, but it doesn't have to be either. You don't have to be a JW or have to be in another religion. I am not in any religion, but I still pray to God through Christ. What do you suggest is BETTER than what I have now? Answer : Do not be in any religion, pray to God yourself asking for direction through Christ, and wait on God to show which group of people HE will use. Imagine if millions of people did just that, then God would know how serious people were in looking for truth. Instead, people including JWs, sit in their comfort zone, having their ears tickled. Surrounded by like people, they comfort each other with the lies from their leaders. Putting their trust in men. How easy that is, how lazy that is, how disrespectful to God and Christ that is. And in places like Russia they die for their leaders and their 'religion', but not for God. They are just like soldiers dying for their country. Because they have put their faith in Men. @JW Insider I accept the lead of good examples Um, I'll try to stop laughing. Come on JWI, you have made clear that your GB are not a good example. I don't really want to harp back to CSA, withholding documents, lawyers telling lies in courts, et al, but that is just one example that your GB are NOT a good example to follow. Exalting themselves above others by saying only those 8 Men are the F&DS, is another example of them NOT being a good example to follow. But this is all just repeating what you already know. Quote " Also, the level of morality that's promoted includes, " The immorality in the CCJW is mostly hidden unless you are one of them with a good eye and keen ear. Having been 'one of them' and having first hand knowledge of how bad things are in there, then i'm not misled by the 'cleaning of the outside of the dish'. Outsiders have no idea how bad the CCJW really is inside. And you, yourself have given us all more in depth info' about Bethal and such places. Homosexuality and wild parties if my memory serves me correctly. And also something about brothers being d/fed for having certain private Bible study groups ? (I wish my memory was clearer). Quote " neutrality when it comes to participation in divisive politics " Maybe you need to talk to James on this one ? He seems to want details about voting or not. James, God 'worked' through the congregations. Worked - past tense. that was in the first century. Just because CCJW is earthwide it means nothing, so is Islam and Catholicism....

@JW Insider *** yb75 p. 146 Part 2—United States of America ***So, as Anna MacDonald recalls: “1925 was a sad year for many brothers. Some of them were stumbled; their hopes were dashed. They had hoped to see some of the ‘ancient worthies’ [men of old like Abraham] resurrected. Instead of its being considered a ‘probability,’ they read into it that it was a ‘certainty,’ and some prepared for their own loved ones with expectancy of their resurrection. This was probably the saddest and most embarrassing year in the history of the Watch Tower Society. Does this sound happy? Didn't a similar thing happen in the early 1970's ? Didn't brothers/sisters sell their homes, live in their garages, give up full time jobs, get into debt ,all because the GB / CCJW said that Armageddon around 1975 ? Whether 1975 was actually put in writing is not important because we all know it was more than a 'suggested' date. BUT STILL many of you JWs insist that your CCJW is 'the best game in town'. When I read what @Witness had written above (it's that one comment I'm referring to), it makes far more sense than many things in the Watchtower magazines. My heart is always open to consider all things, but JW Insider regularly makes it clear that people should not trust those 'leaders' of the CCJW. Conclusion, never trust the best game in town...............

Sounds much like CCJW, cutting down 'fine trees' that do no harm to God or Christ.

Meanwhile here in the UK, Boris the PM has just announced a sort of 'lock down' on all of us. As of tonight we are basically grounded. Not a strong enough 'lock down' in my opinion but then modern day UK PMs are never strong enough to get a job done. Meanwhile I notice that TTH is more concerned about money than human sufferings. And as for the CCJW still pumping out their 'talks' etc, so what ? Lies are lies and deceit is still deceit whether by word of mouth live, or by relayed internet or other tech'. Makes no difference if you are all still singing to the same tune, if the song does not serve God. @JW Insider I think you totally avoided what i said to waffle on about other things. Why even bother to quote me if you don't actually want to answer what i asked ? You did make it quite clear though that the CCJW is built on a crumbling foundation. In fact the CCJW is built on a foundation of lies and deceit. For you to say it does not matter now, well that is your opinion of course. It only does not matter to new members that never knew the previous lies and misused scriptures. I'll repeat @Srecko Sostar It can be so for new and coming generations of JW members ( younger in age and who are not so long time in organization). Older members try/tried to cope with issue and found few methods how to deal with wrong faith doctrine. More serious "problem" not gone, and will stay "forever". To give and show trust in GB leaders, because Jesus also trust GB. :)) Thank you Srecko, very true words. @JW Insider Your list of 4 points proves very clearly that your GB are not the 'Faithful and Discreet Slave'. You have proven by your own words how wicked they are.

@Kosonen I disagree with you on many things, but it's your choice you have your own views. Matthew 22:30 for in the resurrection neither do men marry nor are women given in marriage, but they are as angels in heaven. In my opinion,as I believe the Greek scriptures are about and for the Anointed, I feel this scripture you quote is referring to the Anointed / Heavenly class once they have been resurrected . It is not just about men and women not having sex, more importantly it is about them NOT HAVING REPRODUCTIVE ORGANS AS THEY ARE NOT HUMAN. but they are as angels in heaven. Also, I disagree with you on your explanation of this scripture. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.)" In my opinion the dead will be resurrected within the one thousand years, and they will be taught truth. Many of then would never have known about God or Christ. The reason they will 'not come to life' is simple, it means they will not automatically be given everlasting life before the final testing. And this statement from you ? " And evidently wicked people will not be resurrected to be taught righteousness. Instead they will just appear before God and get a judgement. " ??? You know this for sure do you ? I would agree that anyone judged wicked at Armageddon and put to death at that time, it would seem would not get a resurrection, but those that have previously died, even if they had spent their lives being wicked, would get a resurrection. But then who are we to judge who is wicked and who is not. Didn't Jesus say of the Jews "You ,even though you are wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children" Matthew 7 v 11. Therefore, if you, although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will your Father who is in the heavens give good things to those asking him! I think all those Jews and the Romans that killed Jesus will get a resurrection. Otherwise why did Jesus say "Father forgive them for they know not what they do". Quote " Because people will during the 1000 years marry and get married and have children." Why do you think this way ? When the Ark was on the water those inside did not have sexual intercourse did they ? Was it only afterwards that they began to have sexual relations to produce children? So maybe the thousand year reign of Christ is like the time the Ark was afloat. Because it was not until the waters had gone and the Ark was on dry land that those inside were truly saved. So it will not be until the thousand years have finished and the final testing is gone that those humans here on Earth will be truly saved and have ever lasting life. So it makes much more sense to start having children in the 'New world', in a perfect environment, like that God had created in the beginning. But we each have our own thoughts and i wish you a good day.

Quote @JW Insider "No one should be able to say, oh look at this war, "See here!" it is the greatest war ever seen, or "Look at this great earthquake, or famine, or pestilence, " But isn't that what the GB and CCJW do ? Don't they misuse the sufferings of others to hype up their own agenda ? Didn't a GB member say he was not bothered by this virus and that 'we were expecting it to happen' as part of a sign of the end times ?

Or one could suggest that you Tom are taking the cowardly way out. You are trying to convince yourself that it is God's organisation, as it makes life easier for you. You then just obey your GB and follow without question. How simple, not to think for yourself. Content to just be a follower of men. Even though you know how rotten the CCJW is. But perhaps God will judge you on that, because you have intelligence enough and knowledge enough to know better, but you prefer to hide behind the rule of men. So it could be you that is shooting yourself in the foot. After all if the disciples hadn't have broken away from the Jewish way of life, they would not have found truth from Christ. Hence many have left the CCJW and are looking for truth through Christ. Time will tell who is right.

Kind of funny really because John Butler mentioned about the GB being removed and he got D/fed from here for it.

I can see being in isolation has cracked you lot up already As for James' question :- If a JW votes in a national election ... will there be congregational sanctions against him? Answer : Not right now because all meetings are cancelled.

Yes and God knows the heart of a GB member when he says about Covid-19, that he is not bothered by it, and he was expecting it anyway. When his own brothers are dying in Italy it seems.. Yes i agree with that scripture ‘wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled.‘ Your Governing Body couldn't get much more wicked. Misusing people's pain and suffering to pretend it is a sign.. He (Almighty God) knows if he has a ‘true anointed’ to pull from his sleeve or not. And you Tom, will have to make a decision when HE does it. The thing is Tom, you are part of admin on here, and can say whatever you like, but John Butler was d/fed from here for saying what needed to be said. So I will hold back on what needs saying here.

But even in this horrific virus Tom you waste no time before you misuse it to your own gain. You are a writer, a story teller. And now you are using this Covid-19 to throw more bricks at non JWs. If the GB are also going to misuse the misery that people are suffering just to hype up their own viewpoint then you must expect criticism. The Org, in one form or another, has been misusing world events to proclaim the 'last days' since the late 1800's. And according to JWI the last days started in 33 C. E. Nearly 2,000 years of last days. It's very sad if your brothers have died. It's very sad that anyone should die before reaching a good old age. But millions of people have been dying in lots of disasters for thousands of years. This is just one more disaster. Only the fact that each and every day is one day closer to Judgement time matters, not misusing disasters to make a false point. And as for JWs being more obedient to government requirements, well here in UK they have still been meeting in people's houses. Small groups maybe, but still meeting. Quote "The trick is to allow other viewpoints to exist besides your own. Tolerance. " Although you write this I don't think you believe it or practice it

Quote @JW Insider " But I'm sure you already realized that you don't need faith in a chronology to understand that our basic "truth" comes from the perfect example of Christ Jesus. " Very true but one of the GB once said something like 'God and Christ trusts us' In the opening talk of the March 2018 Broadcast, the theme of which was “In Whom Do You Trust?”, governing body member Gerrit Losch said the following: “But Jehovah and Jesus trust the imperfect slave who cares for things to the best of his ability and with the best of motives.Shouldn’t we then trust the imperfect slave as well?To appreciate the extent of Jehovah and Jesus’ trust in the faithful slave, reflect on what he has promised its members.He has promised them immortality and incorruption.Soon, just before Armageddon, the remaining members of the slave will be taken to heaven.Since 1919 of our Common Era, the slave has been put in charge of some belongings of Christ.According to Matthew 24:47, when the anointed are taken to heaven, Jesus will at that point entrust “all his belongings” to them.Does this not reveal immense trust?Revelation 4:4 describes these resurrected anointed as corulers with Christ.Revelation 22:5 says they will rule, not only for a thousand years but “forever and ever.”What immense trust Jesus shows toward them! Since Jehovah God and Jesus Christ completely trust “the faithful and discreet slave,” should we not do the same? Now it seems that many JWs do not actually trust the 'GB / Slave' but 'use' the CCJW just as a meting place or 'safe house'. Each of you here seem to be of your own opinion, so not actually believing the words of the GB, whom you would say are the F&DS. Sorry but it makes no sense to me to part of that Org run by people that you actually don't trust or believe in. Quote "our basic "truth" comes from the perfect example of Christ Jesus. He is the Way, the Truth, and the Light. " So therefore I'm not convinced that being a part of the CCJW is of help. @Anna said You asked about my viewpoint on those questions. I honestly don't know. And I really don't think it matters too much. It should not matter in view of what it means to be a true Christian. JW Insider pointed that out. A lot of the attitude now is "let's wait and see". The important thing is being found to be on God's side when it all goes down. Anna I agree with you about being on God's side. However Jesus said 'Whoever is not against us is for us'. And Jesus spoke about a reward for those that helped the Anointed ones. Jesus did NOT say that they all had to belong to the CCJW So I am still keeping separate these two things : 1. Serving God through Christ. 2. The need to belong to the CCJW. And the more I read on here the more I can be sure that many JWs and doing both 1 & 2 BUT they are NOT doing 1. through 2. Therefore I see no point in being part of the CCJW as even long serving JWs do not trust it's leaders. Back on topic From my quote above, by governing body member Gerrit Losch Soon, just before Armageddon, the remaining members of the slave will be taken to heaven.

@JW Insider Thank you for giving your time to answering my questions. I would like to understand you more as a person and how you relate to the CCJW. But many things are of course not my business. I do note that you have differing opinions to the GB and CCJW on some matters here. In your answers to Kosonen Yes, of course. So do I. I'm getting the feeling here that you are saying that Jesus cleaned Satan and the demons out of heaven in 33 C. E. Whereas the CCJW teach it was in 1914. Am I correct in my thinking here ? Now I know that it will look as if I'm just finding fault with the GB and the Org, but I'm not. In honesty my heart is passed all that. My heart is heavy with pain and misery because i do not know truth nor do I expect to find truth. Everyone is allowed their own opinion and on here there are many different opinions. Although I pray to God for help and guidance, it does not happen. Reading God's word does not give me understanding or wisdom. But if your understanding of scripture is right and it is in disagreement with the GB, and the CCJW as a whole, then which of you is receiving the guidance of holy spirit ? Neither God nor Christ would work against themselves or against each other. So I cannot understand it when many people that 'seem' to be sincere and seem to be looking for truth arrive at opposing results. If a person is to preach and teach, firstly they have to know truth themselves. Therefore I could not preach and teach, because i do not know truth from misunderstandings.

OK I can see I need to be more humble. In future I will try. But I promise nothing.

@JW Insider Please can you answer a few questions VERY simply for me. 1. Does the GB / CCJW teach that the apostles and early anointed ones are in heaven NOW reigning with Christ ? Are you saying that You believe that the apostles and early anointed ones are still 'in the grave' awaiting their resurrection ? 2. Does the GB / CCJW teach that Jesus Christ became King in heaven in 1914 ? Or maybe another year ? Do you believe that Jesus Christ became King in 33 C. E. ? 3. When do the GB / CCJW teach that the '4 horsemen' start or started riding ? Was it 1914 ? When do you believe the 4 horsemen started riding ? Are you saying they started riding in 33 C. E. ? I only want very simple answers and no need to back it up with scripture. @Kosonen If you want to answer these same questions from your own viewpoint then please do. But please keep it simple. Having just read the last five comments, a couple of which were big and deep (well for my simple brain anyway) I get very confused. @TrueTomHarley and @Anna Your input would also be welcome. But as above please keep it simple for me. I need to know from a JW standpoint what is really being taught right now and what JWs believe from their own viewpoint.

So what are you suggesting Tom ? Are you saying it proves the world is closer to Armageddon ? With or without any happening, each day brings the world closer to Armageddon. I just see the Org or individual JWs grasping at straws with each new disease or virus or world problem... It's so very obvious that things will get much worse each year as the immorality and degeneration of humans continues. And that will continue until God brings it to a halt. When it rains the ground gets wet. If I get up in the morning and step outside and the ground is very wet it's a sign to me that it has been raining. But it's not a sign that a flood is coming. Each disaster or horrible event around the world is a sign that the world is in the hands of the devil and that the human race cannot rule themselves, but it is not a sign of the closeness of Armageddon. No organisation is suitable for God to use right now. No organisation is clean enough or Spiritual enough or has enough Faith. No service to God through Christ is good enough right now. None. A lot needs to happen and that takes time. I have faith that it will happen, hence I'm not looking at Armageddon coming soon and I'm not looking for the physical signs that the Org seems to be looking for. God needs 'spiritual men' and the CCJW only offer 'physical men'. There will be years of suffering yet to come before God has what He needs to work with.

No idea about the 'first amendment' as I'm not American I'm English. As for the 'rules' of JW open or closed forums I've no idea. I've always thought this forum was open to anyone JW or not. @Witness is not a JW and a few others aren't either. Maybe there are some that never were JWs on here. It matters not to me who I'm sharing comments with, I do not discriminate. Jesus said to 'love your enemies' and the Org always used to say 'continue putting up with one another', so that's how i see it. But in honesty I don't think I've been excessively rude or offensive, unless I'm just getting less sensitive. And as you say its just 'banter', whether ex-witness or JW. I think there is a closed JW 'inner chamber' here for JWs only, if you would prefer to be in that. Though I would think it would be very boring. Even @TrueTomHarley comes out to play here sometimes as he gets bored in there. Christian love to you Tom Henry, I mean you no harm.

It seems that China also have Bird Flu now too. We're doomed Captain Mainwaring doomed I say. Is it another sign ? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7987009/Bird-flu-breaks-two-Chinese-provinces-near-coronaviruss-epicentre.html It seems that bird flu can affect humans mentally as well as physically. My wife thinks we will soon have zombies wandering around Tom think i am one already

So are you saying, that you think, the Apostles and others of the dead anointed are not with God and Christ yet ? Are you suggesting that all the anointed will go to heaven at or after Armageddon ?

I find this comment highly offensive. Where is the moderator Anna. I don't know what the rules are here, but I would say common courtesy should apply across the board of course, so @4Jah2me please control yourself. Thank you. Two can play at this game. I will remember to report any comments I don't like then. If @Tom Henry is so easily offended then why is he here ? Should I report that TTH said that 'I'm losing it ' @TrueTomHarley said "He really is losing it." and I'm deeply offended. Help me Anna

Tom you would make a good Pharisee. You twist all things seen and written. IT IS YOU THAT I LAUGH AT TOM, not the horrors of this world. Seeking a sign, using anything that may look like a sign. Lets just remind people of what you said Tom, "As signs go, a worldwide plague that crashes public health systems, along with decimated markets that will throw endless people into poverty, if not death, is hardly a yawner. " So you were not concerned about the world conditions. YOU were concerned about a SIGN. And that is why I thought it was funny. Because you JWs so desperately need a sign. With so many false predictions and lies coming from the hands of your leaders over the years, you need something that will make you feel good. Besides which I'm sure your leaders hope it will take the pressure off them and the Org concerning CSA. Have a good day Tom. Are you self isolating ?

You could write a book about it Tom. Or are you just hoping and yearning for Armageddon ? Another 9½ years Tom

But it won't be as funny as the overlapping generations

How do you know, The Org is NOT God's choice. One simple answer. Matthew 7:15-20 New King James Version (NKJV) You Will Know Them by Their Fruits 15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Good old Tom. Oh how he loves himself. TTH how much web space do you want to continue wasting ?