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César Chávez

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  1. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Anna in The Final Phase of Christ's Presence soon to be revealed...   
    We're not changing any teachings silly, we are changing our understanding of them. 
  2. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in The Final Phase of Christ's Presence soon to be revealed...   
    So what does this tell us ?  It tells us that the GB are not inspired of God's Holy Spirit. It tells us that a lot of people are influenced by the GB's false teachings. And it tells us that significant changes in teachings and direction are constantly happening in the JW Org.  Did Jesus change his teachings ?  Should we change the teachings of Jesus ?  
    And you don't think a True Anointed are needed to give inspired direction ? 
  3. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Anna in The Final Phase of Christ's Presence soon to be revealed...   
    P.S. This book seems like the 1971 version of today's "Pure Worship" book (except of course with some significant changes...)
  4. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Anna in The Final Phase of Christ's Presence soon to be revealed...   
    This reminded me of something that I have found recently. Although the claim is not about the signs in heavens etc. it does pinpoint the time when these and similar things were to take place. I think it's one of the places where the 20th century has not been replaced by a more generic "in our time".
    1971 "The nations shall know that I am Jehovah" ch.12 p 116 par 9:
    "Shortly, within our twentieth century, the “battle in the day of Jehovah” will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom". 
    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101971012
  5. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Anna in The Final Phase of Christ's Presence soon to be revealed...   
    I remember reading about something like this in Franz's book but I don't think it was a decision regarding the signs in the heavens but a decision about something else that impacted a lot of people, negatively unfortunately. All because of one person changing his mind...
  6. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Witness in The Final Phase of Christ's Presence soon to be revealed...   
    You've just described the organization and its leadership...perfectly.
     
     
     
  7. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to TrueTomHarley in Now this is strange one. Who really is to blame here ? What could the Elders have done ?   
    The phrase you are looking for is: ‘a lie.’
    Headline of your story reads: “Coroner blasts Jehovah’s Witnesses for not stopping....”
    Whereupon the coroner himself, who has other things to do but is annoyed at being misrepresented, must set the record straight:
    “We would like to state that at no time did the Coroner find that opportunities existed and/or were missed by any individual or group to prevent the murder.”
    One might even say the phrase you are looking for is: “an apostate lie.” Who else would turn the Coroner’s statement inside out?
  8. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to TrueTomHarley in Now this is strange one. Who really is to blame here ? What could the Elders have done ?   
    Furthermore, since the coroner has since made clear that no way did any other party (JW or otherwise) fail to pick up on signals, this next statement of the story must be completely made up:
    ”And Mr McGovern warned that similar deaths could happen in the future if lessons were not learned from this incident.”
    And his “shock” is overstated, since his clarification makes plain that he was not shocked at all: 
    ‘But to the shock of the county's coroner, Sean McGovern, it was revealed that the pensioner had earlier informed a senior church member of his murderous plan.’
    And, as stated previously, I am even suspicious of the phrase ‘devout Jehovah’s Witness.’ How many reporters, in this secular age, use the word ‘devout?’ It smacks of a hit job—a Witness-bashing writer pulling out all the stops, be they valid or not, to connect a painful human tragedy, someone snapping under the stress of seeing a loved ones health dissipate and vanish, even a misguided ‘mercy killing,’ with a religious group he detests, to pursue his own vendetta.
    And if this is the case, it is more than “an apostate lie” that ‘Patiently Sitting on My Hands’ champions. It is “a despicable apostate lie.”
     
  9. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to TrueTomHarley in Now this is strange one. Who really is to blame here ? What could the Elders have done ?   
    It won’t go to trial because there is no complaint. It is just PSoMHs puffing up the griping of one of his friends.
  10. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Now this is strange one. Who really is to blame here ? What could the Elders have done ?   
    @TrueTomHarley you are good for a laugh. And you certainly hate me, which I find amusing.  Keep it up old chap  
  11. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to TrueTomHarley in Now this is strange one. Who really is to blame here ? What could the Elders have done ?   
    I don’t hate you. I consider you a dodo. There’s a difference. 
  12. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Now this is strange one. Who really is to blame here ? What could the Elders have done ?   
    No ? Oh, then you must just enjoy calling me names.   
    So who is the apostate mentioned here ?  Me or the reporter ?  The word 'apostate' gets thrown around so much that it has lost it's meaning. 
    But I suppose you and others will go back to arguing about that year 1914 and about when Armageddon will arrive. 
    And I WILL continue to be Patiently waiting for Truth.  Whereas JWs would prefer to continue to preach the GB's lies. 
     
  13. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to TrueTomHarley in Now this is strange one. Who really is to blame here ? What could the Elders have done ?   
    Only ‘dodo.’ And only when it is appropriate. Which, admittedly, occurs frequently.
  14. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Pudgy in IN RESPONSE TO A LETTER FROM A JW   
    If you could keep your Epistles down to two short paragraphs of 4 lines each, I might endure reading them.
    ..... throw me a bone.
  15. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Witness in IN RESPONSE TO A LETTER FROM A JW   
    The spiritual Temple/House/Dwelling of God from the Insight Book, vol. 1 pp. 513-514 (1 Pet 5:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22)
    "Jesus Christ is Scripturally spoken of as the “foundation cornerstone” of the Christian congregation, which is likened to a spiritual house. Peter quoted and applied to Jesus Christ this prophecy regarding the  'foundation cornerstone' on which individual anointed Christians are built up as  'living stones,' to become a spiritual house or temple for Jehovah." (1Pe 2:4-6)
    These words apparently are not “true” anymore, at least not in the Wt. organization which requires total unity, total compliance to this idol, no matter what changes occur. At some point, “new light” crept under the door and into the mind of Gerrit Loesch, the longest standing member of the GB.  Because of the Wt.’s teaching that the “great crowd” to come out of the great tribulation is every JW, and not specific to the anointed remnant who survive, because the days of deceit played against them, are “cut short”…the Wt. has to explain why this great crowd of all JWs serve God “in the temple day and night”.  (Matt 24:15,20-25; Rev 7:14,15)
    He stated in 2017:  “All of us, no matter what hope we have we serve Jehovah in the spiritual temple.  We all worship Jehovah based on Jesus’ sacrifice.  So what is the spiritual temple?  True or false: it’s the same as the spiritual paradise. False.  Umm, it refers to anointed Christians (as said in the Insight volume) 
    False again.  The temple in Bible times constituted a provision for arrangement of worshipping Jehovah.  So the spiritual temple is also an arrangement of worship based on Jesus perfect ransom sacrifice, and all that worship Jehovah, based on his sacrifice are in his spiritual temple.” 
    Does this mean that all JWs are now “living stones”?  Are they all part of the “royal priesthood” of God?  Have they all been anointed?  Are they all part of the symbolic “144,000”?
    Is it time to throw out the Insight Volumes for teaching “old light” – past truth?
    We must remember though, that there is a man-appointed priesthood: the elder body which serves the organization - not the Temple of God, as God’s priests should be defending.  Since there is an anointed priesthood, and a spiritual temple, would the arrangement to serve in that temple….change from the arrangement made in the early temple period?  No, for God told Moses, “See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”  Heb 8:5
    The tabernacle and temple arrangement with an anointed priesthood, stands firm today, with greater consequences for those who transgress this heavenly arrangement, even more so than what happened when foreigners entered God’s earthly temple.  (Ezek 33:29; 28:2; 44:6-9; 2 Chron 23:6,7; 2 Thess 2:8)
    It seems that this is why scriptures relating to the anointed Body of Christ, are now applying to all JWs, through its various gifts. (1 Cor 12; Eph 4:7-12)  I’m wondering if there has been “new light” creeping under the door of the "inner rooms", to be announced soon, about the new identity of the “man of lawlessness” sitting in God’s Temple.  (Matt 24:26; 2 Thess 2:1-4) 
    Previously, the leaders taught it is the clergy class exalting itself over Christendom’s religions. They are admitting that it is indeed, a priesthood.  Guess it took them some time to figure out how to reveal the “man of lawlessness” “sitting”/ruling over God’s Temple - that Temple made up of all JWs, instead of giving some excuse that this takes place in Christendom’s “false” temples, which they say Christendom believes to be owned by God.  Yes, that has been their excuse.  But now!  If all JWs are the spiritual temple, can they shift the blame on Russia and its Orthodox central religion, as the “man of lawlessness”!
    “You hatch evil, like eggs from a poisonous snake. Anyone who eats the eggs will die. And if you break one of them open, a poisonous snake will come out. Your lies are like spider webs.”  Isa 59:5
    “Your father is the devil. You belong to him. You want to do what he wants. He was a murderer from the beginning. He was always against the truth. There is no truth in him. He is like the lies he tells. Yes, the devil is a liar. He is the father of lies.”  John 8:44
    Frogs begin as an egg.  Frogs plagued Egypt, for Pharaoh’s resistance in letting God’s people go. (Exod 8:1-4)  In the organization, Christ’s “kings of the earth” (Rev 1:5; 5:9,10), sit tight, without recognizing the magical change of what little egg size truth may have once been promoted, progressively transform into a stronger and stronger lie from the mouths of false prophets and their organization.  The anointed and most JWs, sit tight under the fear of losing all that have “built” as a member of the organization. They continue to “eat” the falsehoods, originating from the serpent’s mouth, instead of walking away, despite any threats of losing their “life”.  (Matt 16:25; Rev 13:15) 
    “And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, (organization) and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
     14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.” 
    These are demonic expressions originating from the father of the lie, and given to the false prophet/teachers.  They are then promoted by elders who support the image of “Jehovah’s spirit-directed organization”.  (Rev 13:15)  The anointed "Israel" are absorbing into their hearts, lies about their position as God’s priests in His spiritual Temple. 
    I am amazed - I see the complete fulfillment of God's Temple being "given over" to the "Gentiles".  Isn't that what G. Loesch has done?  "Given" God's spiritual Temple to those not part of Israel?  (Rev 11:2)
      I hope as many as possible, wake up. 
    “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, (identity as belonging to Christ) lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”
    16 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon. Rev 16:13-16
  16. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to JW Insider in The Final Phase of Christ's Presence soon to be revealed...   
    You appear to have conflated two different GB meetings. In 1980 (when there were about 15 active GB members) only 3 GB members had their names on the memo to discuss moving the beginning of the "generation that will not pass away" from October 4, 1914 to October 4, 1957. It was the "brain-child" of Bro. Bert Schroeder, and my guess is that the other two GB members whose names are on the memo were only included because Bert Schroeder was the chairman of that committee and the others (Booth and Suiter, if I recall) happened to be on the same committee. It's not like the other two signed or promoted the idea. It was just brought to the table for discussion. Bert Schroeder was serious about it, but if you knew Suiter and Booth, I don't think they would have been strong advocates of it or even had much of an opinion about it.
    The idea that such things as satellites and rockets in space could be signs in heavens was already hinted at during the study of the book "Your Will Be Done on Earth."  The book was written in 1958, but it's still on the jw.org website, because that book was reprinted in the Watchtowers from November 1958 to June 1960. And those articles are on the site. But the most similar ideas to this (before 1980) were the talks that sometimes tied the verses in Luke 21 to the fear of the nuclear age and the new dangers of combining the space race with the nuclear age. Sputnik itself was usually treated in the publications as not a specific threat. Even though Sputnik was also mentioned in the same 1959 article that mentioned the signs in the sun moon and stars, below, no direct connection had been drawn from Sputnik to the "signs:"
    *** w59 6/1 p. 335 par. 46 “Look! I Am Making All Things New” ***
    “ [“Also, there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars] On the earth anguish of nations, not knowing the way out . . . , while men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth.”
    Nuclear fears increased in the early 1960's (e.g. Bay of Pigs, Cuba, 1961) and an even closer connection was then drawn between Luke 21:25,26 and these "signs in the heavens." But they were tied to the generation starting in 1914, of course:
    *** w62 3/1 pp. 131-132 God’s New World in Our Generation ***
    Today in this nuclear, space age there is indeed “anguish of nations, not knowing the way out.” There is no need for proof of this; it is apparent to anyone who observes world events.
    But when did this period of distress of nations begin? With this generation! That is why the new world comes within our generation! World War I marked the beginning of worldwide “anguish of nations.”
    That exact same idea was repeated in the May 15 and October 15 Watchtowers of the same year, 1962. And then again in 1965:
    *** w65 5/1 pp. 261-262 Cheer amid World Fear ***
    Now, too, man has succeeded in sending his space vehicles around and onto the moon, even obtaining remarkable close-up photographs of the lunar surface. The thrill of such scientific achievement, however, is not without widespread feeling of uneasiness, for it is well known that both of the great blocs of nations now confronting each other in cold-war array are planning to be the first to plant a military mission on the moon and use it to scrutinize the installations and movements of the enemy. So the moon is no longer just a gently beaming light for the night sky. It has become a cause for deepening anxiety. And what may yet be discovered, as man turns his attention to nearby planets, is likewise certain to promote the dread feeling of insecurity and uncertainty.
    . . .
    WORLD FEAR FORETOLD
    Nineteen hundred years ago Christ Jesus foresaw this fear-gripped generation, and pointed to the immediate cause: “There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth anguish of nations, not knowing the way out because of the roaring of the sea and its agitation, while men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.” (Luke 21:25, 26)
    The material in the 1968 Truth book pointing to 1975 also brought up the connection again. After that the idea seemed to have been dropped from publications for over a decade (1968-1982).
    Since 1982, it's been common to see a general connection between the signs in the heavens and military capabilities in the sky and space, but not in a way that could limit the sign to just the nuclear age or the space age. The following statement (with the inclusion of military planes and rockets) could have application to the time from about WWI to now, or even perhaps going further back in time (e.g. the rockets red glare, and bombs bursting in air):
    *** w82 5/15 p. 14 par. 10 The Signs of the Times—What Do They Mean to You? ***
    With the stockpiling of armaments racing beyond the control of the nations, the literal sea itself is filled with war equipment in the form of ships and submarines capable of carrying deadly nuclear warheads that can wipe out millions of people with a single missile. Indeed, the sea is roaring and ‘agitated.’ And what about the sky and space above us? True to Jesus’ words, ‘the powers of the heavens have been shaken’ in that war planes, rockets, ballistic missiles and the like, can streak through space, across oceans and continents to strike enemy targets.
     
  17. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Pudgy in The Final Phase of Christ's Presence soon to be revealed...   
    The Governing Body has a procedure on how they decide "New Light".
    Someone comes up with an idea, and they discuss it among themselves, and then they vote on the adoption of the "New Light" 
    It takes a 2/3 majority to carry the proposal.
    That means if there are eight GB members then at least 5.333 have to be for the idea for it to become official doctrine.  Say, six members.
    In 1957 when Sputnik was launched the above idea was proposed, that artificial satellites, and Sputnik in particular, would be the fulfillment of Bible Prophesy as regards "signs in the heavens", etc.
    I do not remember how many GB members there were back then, as I was just a Puppy, but a 2/3 majority did not carry the day. If memory serves (?) it did pass, but one GB member went to the restroom, and when he came back, he changed his vote.
     
  18. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to TrueTomHarley in The Final Phase of Christ's Presence soon to be revealed...   
    I think this is a good way to put it. It accounts for “extremism” being extended into things that never used to be thought extremist at all—quirky, perhaps, but not “extremist”—like the “preaching of the good news” or any suggestion that one should be “no part of the world.”
  19. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Pudgy in The Final Phase of Christ's Presence soon to be revealed...   
    I realize that I am not as smart as humans, but I am smart enough to realize that EVERYBODY, without exception has been wrong 100% of the time about the fulfillment of Biblical prophesy in modern times.
    Interpreting invisible things without a shred of evidence is a tough gig.
  20. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Witness in Now this is strange one. Who really is to blame here ? What could the Elders have done ?   
    Therefore you pray in this way:
    “Our Father who is in heaven,
    may your name be treated as holy."  Matt 6:9  (LEB)
     
    If it means showing humility before the Father, I'll gladly eat the nits. 🙂 
     
  21. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Pudgy in Now this is strange one. Who really is to blame here ? What could the Elders have done ?   
    Since I have VERY limited vocalization abilities, and can only type with my thumbs, which are half-way up my front legs ( go figure! ), and realizing that NOBODY alive knows how to REALLY pronounce the name of the one and only Almighty God, what works for me is to use the address "Almighty and only True God, Jehovah", and figure as much as Jehovah put up with humans in the past, perhaps even today it is intent, over formality, that counts.
    It's like when my Guardian talks to me ... " Pudgy! blah blah Blah blah blah Pudgy blah blah blah blah BLAH blah blah Pudgy".
    I think there should be a rule, that if you pick at the nits, you have to eat them.
  22. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Witness in Now this is strange one. Who really is to blame here ? What could the Elders have done ?   
    Are you Jewish? Sometimes?  "G-d"/God.    
    The name of Jesus was given as a human pronunciation in the Bible.  The name of God, was not. 
    The name "Jehovah" will not be used in the Kingdom, as much as JWs would love that, and believe that this pronunciation IS correct for the name of God.
     
    Strong's 1943:  "hovah" - a ruin, disaster, wicked

    "The pronunciation Jehovah, in addition to appearing in some biblical versions, is also used by Freemasons, and Rosicrucians"

    C.T. Russel's memorial stone
     
    http://exatoverdade.blogspot.com.br/2013/03/testemunha-de-yahawah.html   "However, those who are looking for the Truth, should ask themselves: Could someone choose the term “hovah” (wicked) on purpose to blaspheme the Name of God?   Is it not the purpose of Satan to put his name (Wicked, the cause of ruin and disaster) in the place of the Name of God? Wouldn't Satan like to have the world calling on His Name, that is, the world calling on the Attributes of Satan - "Wicked, Causing Ruin and Disaster"?      
     
     
     
  23. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Witness in Now this is strange one. Who really is to blame here ? What could the Elders have done ?   
    Yes he did “exist” for three days, in Spirit. 
    1 Cor 15:45 – ‘So it is written, The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.’
    Jesus always carried the Spirit of life within him.  He carried the breath of God, the force of life, when he walked the earth.  (John 20:21,22; Rom 8:2) As we’ve discussed before, when Jesus died, he witnessed to the disobedient spirits in the abyss.  He was made alive by that Spirit after his physical death, and this was before his fleshly body was resurrected by the Father.   So, he didn’t really die completely, since the flesh means nothing – the Spirit is the one who gives life.  (John 6:63)    He never sinned, and death could not hold him...which is why he was made alive by the Spirit after his body died.    (Acts 2:24; John 1:5)
    “For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 in which he also went and made proclamation to the spirits in prison who in the past were disobedient, when God patiently waited in the days of Noah while the ark was being prepared. In it a few—that is, eight people—were saved through water.” 1 Pet 3:18-20
     
  24. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to TrueTomHarley in Now this is strange one. Who really is to blame here ? What could the Elders have done ?   
    Why do I have the irresistible urge to start a new account?
    ”Patiently sitting on my hands until God gets himself in gear and sends the true anointed.”
  25. Downvote
    César Chávez reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Now this is strange one. Who really is to blame here ? What could the Elders have done ?   
    You are well trained by your GB. They would be proud of using you the way they do. How does it feel to be used by men ? Men that have turned their backs on God and Christ. Men that guess at dates and times. Men that 'tread on' the True Anointed ones. And you swallow their every word and worship those men. 
    What exactly do you think a 'soul' is ? The soul is the actual person, the human being, not a seperate item. 
    I don't think Almighty God was thinking about the life expectancy of 'The Word' when God created ' The Word'.  When 'The Word' = Christ was working alongside his Father it was a long way before the creation of Adam, so I wouldn't think God was 'working on' the immortality of Christ. There would have been no need for it. Death wasn't even happening until life was created here on Earth. 
    Once again I say, some people do try their best to complicate matters, and to try to stumble others, don't you ? 
    It would look like you are the troll here trying to cause complications. 
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