Moise Racette

I got this sis. I enjoy, apostate ideology. I just wish they had something real to offer as facts through bible, interpretation. That's been the problem for those folks. They can never argue logic without trying to involve the Watchtower and its printed articles they mispresent. Enjoy your day!!

Hi, @Space Merchant, my brother! I hope you have been well.🙂
 
I am so glad you responded, because I know you have a ton of knowledge about the details of the early church history.
 
From what you've studied, doesn't it appear that in the history of Christianity, there have often been very sincere lovers of God who have taken part in "apostate" practices, not out of malice or desire to deceive, but just because they didn't know any better?
 
If "apostasy" is defined as "standing away from true worship" then in reality so many things done even by the faithful ones in the Old Testament were "apostasy".
 
Jesus told us that a marriage should be between one man and one woman, and yet Jacob/Israel had several wives, as did David, who was also a man desirable to Jehovah's heart.
 
At times men who were approved by Jehovah also permitted worship on the high places. There were real Christians who loved God and yet for years believed there was a Trinity (or who still believe it). In the early modern day history of Jehovah's Witnesses, they celebrated Christmas and used the cross, went to war. There are so many different forms of "apostasy". If we were to shun every person who calls themself a brother but is guilty of apostasy, then we wouldn't be talking to anybody in the congregation.
 
Until everyone is perfect, we will all be "apostasizing" in the sense that we are all falling short of perfect true worship. It is only the ransom that makes our worship acceptable, that righteousness from faith, that undeserved kindness. Abraham was declared righteous by faith, not by perfection. The Jews couldn't be perfect in the Law. It's not possible for imperfect people to follow the perfect law. That's why we have the ransom.
 
The early church fathers were doing the best they could, but they were imperfect, and just as Jesus and the apostles foretold, unholy traditions crept in right away. 
 
Yes, a business can fire an employee, yes, an organization can expel someone, but the congregation is to be a family. Just as the Mosaic Law allowed for divorce but later Jesus said it was a concession for their hardheartedness, so today. The whole excommunication/disfellowshipping is similar to what is done in a business, not a family. Jehovah hates a divorcing/disfellowshipping.
 
The Mosaic Law had expelling because the elders then also had to be judges and the secular law authorities. But that is not the way in the Christian congregation. The Mosaic Law also allowed the Israelites to kill Canaanites because the Israelites were Jehovah's instrument to clean out the land of wrongdoing. But that is not the way in the Christian congregation. Jesus is the one given authority to cast out wrongdoers completely. In the meantime, Christians are admonished to exercise their Bible trained conscience and apply the counsel to not hang out with wrongdoers. This application of the Bible counsel is not given to a committee. It is for the individual Christian.
 
Matthew chapter 18 was not directed just to the older men. In the context, we see that Jesus called a young child to him. If a young child was there, surely the mother was too. All Christians are to apply the counsel at Matthew 18, and the words "go to the congregation" do not mean "just tell a committee of elders".
 
Jehovah God directly evicted Adam and Eve. Jehovah executed Korah, Dathan, and Abiram directly. Jehovah directly gave Miraim leprosy. Jehovah has the right to do certain things that we don't. Adam and Eve didn't have the right to eat from that one fruit tree in the garden, but they did it anyway. There were repercussions. They reaped what they sowed. The modern-day disfellowshipping/excommunication is the same in that those taking the lead are taking from the tree that doesn't belong to them. They are reaping what they have sown, and soon they will also reap discipline directly from Jehovah.
 
As you said, Diotrephes tried to expel others. The whole current arrangement of disfellowshipping/excommunication is based on Diotrephes' way. 
 
Paul and John kept the congregation clean in the right way. They appealed to individual Christians to exercise their conscience and stop associating with those who were doing bad. They did not put in place any committees. Each Christian must use his own conscience.
 
John's words "don't say a greeting" must be taken in harmony with Jesus' actions. Jesus talked to sinners all the time. John's words are telling us not to go along with wrongdoing as if it's okay.
 
Jesus example teaches us. He teaches us. He is the way. If he wanted us to have committees, he would have told us. He didn't. He told us to love and to avoid the leaven of the Pharisees. The Bible is clear that the Pharisees were the ones who shunned. And the early church fathers were influenced by many of the Pharisaical traditions. It doesn't mean the church fathers were bad or not Christians. It just means they did what Paul and John and Peter and Jesus foretold would happen. 
 
Jesus is going to fix it. Won't it be so nice, @SpaceMerchant, when all of this divisions/doctrines are cleared away and the light shines so bright, we can just enjoy the peace of the entire family of faith!💖

Many witnesses have gone to author books. Those witnesses favor acknowledging the inspired word of God as the truth. They don't malign nor do they disparage. But, here we go, the blame game rearing its, ugly head in order to blame Elders. The elders made that person, have shady business deals, the elders, made that person write a book about self-pity for an audience of one.

Most of the time, it's true. However, to a well-trained mind, it's not easy to manipulate a person, especially those with social behavioral assets behind them. Unfortunately, there's not that many in the Org. Yet, once again, we see the blame game come to the forefront. Blame our own bad behavior and failures on an institution or employer.

Most of the time, it's true. However, to a well-trained mind, it's not easy to manipulate a person, especially those with social behavioral assets behind them. Unfortunately, there's not that many in the Org. Yet, once again, we see the blame game come to the forefront. Blame our own bad behavior and failures on an institution or employer.

True, and now the JW's opposition is having a field day with this one. Their narratives will be pushed as a truth unfortunately when they have no information concerning that particular JW church or it's people besides the person who committed the crime.

“Never before has the attempt been made to make clear the interaction between heaven and earth and to make visible the influences of the spirit persons [God, Jesus Christ, Satan] on humanity, society and individuals.”
No one’s even tried?

If sanctimonious evangelicals don't like California, they should have never moved there to begin with. The same thing can be said about the far-right wanting to push their evangelical views on others. Some views that are accepted by the KKK.

While the statements are agreeable as I stated, we have to keep in mind they don't have 100% surety. Having personal experience helps aid in the assessment, when it comes to intend. The reason some people will plead insanity in a commission of a crime. Law enforcement is not only cynical but cautious.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/machiavellians-gulling-the-rubes/202102/criminal-malingering-defendants-who-fake-mental-illness
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/faking-mental-illness/
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/factitious-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20356028
 

@Moise Racette Agreed, however, as you already know, it won't stop anyone who is in opposition to something or someone to make their own assumption and push it as a truth. The people similar to whom Witness brings up (like Ex-Bethel Marcus), as did Srecko (Grifter and Red District Adventurer Lloyd Evans), are blaming one of a JW leader, with the idea of enticing murder of infants by using clipped videos, and days after that a situation took place, and they tried to link that mental illness situation with the JW leader and push it as a truth, gain support for the Washington DC event they have planned, which will fail, as is throw anger and hatred towards the community, obviously stuff like this will influence people, and a single soul could take action, which is bad.
They already did this with the shooting in December, and they'll do the same with the shooting involving the underage boy.
So, in this sense, not only CSA is weaponized, Mental Illness, is also weaponized as well, which is sadistic in all sense.
That being said, just like CSA prevention, people with an axe to grind will not read things about mental illness, instead, they spark accusations and assume things.

While the statements are agreeable as I stated, we have to keep in mind they don't have 100% surety. Having personal experience helps aid in the assessment, when it comes to intend. The reason some people will plead insanity in a commission of a crime. Law enforcement is not only cynical but cautious.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/machiavellians-gulling-the-rubes/202102/criminal-malingering-defendants-who-fake-mental-illness
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/faking-mental-illness/
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/factitious-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20356028
 

SM and the GB? 🤔 🤣 I don't think any of the governing body members are debate oriented, confrontational millennials who takes issue with Christianity today to a high degree because of the Romans nor any of them focused heavy on fighting misinformation/lies let alone has some knowledge of the Quran/Islam lol 🤭

Anyways, in the Bible it tells us that Jesus was the very first creation by Jehovah God, reasons why God is mentioned as The Father, of which everyone is aware of.

Jesus being first and direct creation by Jehovah makes Jesus the firstborn of all creation as mentioned in Colossians 1:15, and the beginning of the creation of God and lastly the only-begotten Son of God.

Furthermore, Jehovah God continued to make all the rest of creation through Jesus, his firstborn Son who is the Master Worker. Some also believe Jesus is The Angel of the Lord (Angel of Jehovah God mentioned in the OT).
I see other people put up more references from the Bible about it.

They don't and the fact they still do not do this, to this day, is mind boggling, even ignoring any notions of child abuse prevention provided. However, there are a small few, a very small number that do, but end up as enemies of the EXJW majority. In this faith community as is others, this tends to be the case because whenever you have someone who speaks with reason, they are deemed the bad guy and some how later mentioned as defending abusers, which is ridiculous. Another problem is weaponizing child abuse, the fact most EXJW proclaim the faith community is a pedophile paradise, only leads abusers, who are on places like reddit, YouTube, Facebook, etc. to look into said places to seek out more victims, this is what I talked about before, but the same suspects ignore this, Srecko, Witness, and Butler specifically because when the Facebook pedophile problem came up, he was deathly silent.
To add more fuel to the fire, some EXJWs are hypocrites, they'll shout from the rooftops about abuse, but will defend abusers themselves in other communities they care about and or outright ignore any abuse, even attacking the abused if their reasoning does not align with them.
In example, there is one who was found out to be affiliated with EXJWs via influence (Latino American) who reside in the Gaming Community in a specific genre, who defended the actions of a child groomer because the person in question was very attractive to him. I do not recall the name of the woman he defended, but in the truther community they have screenshots of the person, however they tend to blur or black out the eyes (the groomer, 24, is the one sitting behind the victim, 14, later seen walking with said victim). Other notes point to the fact she did this while in the process of being engaged to a person, who also fell victim to superficial attraction, this all took place around 2019-2020.

 
This same person later defended another of that community who was texting a minor, although the community grilled him prior to being reinstated, some, even this EXJW affiliate, defended him and said that it was something light. It was only found out he was an EXJW after people looked into his account, he subscribed to numerous EXJW channels, but after this exposure, he changed his name and picture on multiple media, even reddit. The irony is this was also mentioned to Butler, who brushed it off.
This is but 2 instances for this person. I can assure you there are some other ones that are often times bizarre and problematic compared to that example above. When you dwell in CSA prevention, you come to learn and read many things, some things very comfortable for the average reader or onlooker.
When these situations happened, the community began to turn to solutions, ideas, and practices to root out what they can, even going as far as to see if the allegations are true or not because they know, as with ALL institutions and even groups, abuse is a problem, they even noted that joking about abuse resulted in such abusers entering said communities, which can be comparable to EXJWs who joke about it also, in addition, they make it seem that religious people, even JWs, are all supporters of abuse, which is the total opposite. So, the fact that people can do these things, is actually beneficial for the community they are tied to, which contains underaged people, mainly when learning prevention, plays a key role, something of which many, even JWs know, hence the sourced quotations you mentioned.
Indeed, but the hard heads will not even consider that source or any of the one's you mention (the irony is ARC also noted these sources and articles, which EXJWs ignored), and will be against anyone who says otherwise, going as far as to send death threats. It is also the very reason why I was unable to get any video source of the guy who stopped the EXJWs in New York granted, like the 1975 video, they made sure that no one, even JWs can locate this information. The only relic of that history is from an Facebook link of the timeline itself of when it occurred. This is why them going to the US Capitol, will result in the same outcome, only this time, they'll be dealing with the political paradigm that uphold the constitution to a very high regard. when they fail, they'll blame the Watchtower.
Yes, but as we speak we do see a censorship battle going on, of which some people are hit, myself included. Often times some folks do not realize that a warpath like mentality will not only cost them, but others in the process too, and they'll be looking to blame someone. This goes into the realm of religion, as some are already making attempts to censor Bible passages and verses, so in this sense, if they seek to go and take down a faith community, the laws would end up affecting them and will cost others who are not involved. This is why people should not mess around with the political paradigm if they do not know how to navigate and or combat it, only makes things worse.

I thought about this and forgot about a Watchtower publication back in 1962. I believe someone else mentioned it here long ago. I researched it and found it.
*** w62 11/15 p. 693 par. 9 The Benefits of Subjection to Authorities ***
9 Worldly authorities render a judgment and punish persons, whether they are inside the congregation or outside, if they violate the laws of decency and good order. The violators have no right to complain at such punishment, as Paul showed by his words before Caesar’s judgment seat. (Acts 25:11) Hence the Christian congregation cannot protect any of its members if they steal, smuggle, commit bigamy, murder, libel, defraud, and so forth. The congregation must release such guilty members to punishment by worldly authorities. Since the guilty break the laws of the land and thus oppose the “authority,” they are taking a stand against God’s arrangement.
*** w62 11/15 p. 693 par. 10 The Benefits of Subjection to Authorities ***
10 The Christian congregation has no orders from God and has no right to protect such opposers and lawbreakers from the due punishment by the “authority” of the land. We cannot hinder, oppose or condemn the execution of the krima or judgment by aiding or shielding lawbreakers. To do so would put the Christian congregation also in opposition to God’s arrangement. Besides letting the krima or “judgment” take its course upon offending members who bring reproach upon God’s people, the congregation may disfellowship such lawbreakers. The congregation does not want to deserve a krima or “judgment” with the lawbreakers by siding or cooperating with them and opposing the worldly “authority.” It also wants no reproach.
The key phrase to look at is SO FORTH. Child Maltreatment, Child molestation, Child abuse has been mentioned by the Watchtower in various ways.

Indeed, however, you don't see @Witness condemning Reddit or any other institution governed by ex-witnesses. In fact, hundreds if not thousands of cases of child abuse are committed by former members. But, you don't see hypocrites complaining and advocating against those cases.
The same can be said about any other institution. A shameful human condition the Watchtower has warned against for decades.
The Watchtower's child abuse policy begins by stating: "Child abuse is abhorrent to us. This is in harmony with the principle recorded at Romans 12:9. Even one abused child is one too many. For decades The Watchtower and Awake! have featured articles to educate both Witnesses and the public regarding the importance and the need to protect children from child abuse. Among others, there was the article "Let Us Abhor What Is Wicked!" published in the January 1, 1997, issue of The Watchtower ; "Help for the Victims of Incest" in the October 1, 1983, Watchtower, "Your Child Is in Danger!", "How Can We Protect Our Children?", and "Prevention in the Home", all in the October 8, 1993, Awake!, as well as "Child Molesting—Every Mother's Nightmare," in the January 22, 1985, Awake!"
So, it doesn't matter how the Watchtower describes that condition, be it child molestation, child maltreatment, child abuse, etc. They have made society aware of it.
We'll see what the US Supreme Court says about title 230, and how they can limit people's conduct over the internet. Once that's done, the US congress will have to revisit title 230 and restructure its language, to not give immunity to website owners and posters on any website.

Indeed, not only do apostates not demonstrate it, but many witnesses here don't demonstrate it, since they have the same inclination as apostates. Sad really, how people can't see the value history has provided as proof.
Not only is scripture obscured by many here, but history as well.

According to whom? A D'fd person, lol! I see where your relative gets her sense of humor from. 🤣

I understand many languages, even incoherent ones. However, when someone is writing in Klingon, they need to educate themselves first. 

Thank you for proving how sick you are, lol!! Keep them coming! 🤣
Better yet, have your alter-ego defend you.

Yes! People have known for a long time, you're no kind of good Shepherd, just a bad one.

Yes indeed. I find the bluster and bullying coming from @Pudgy to be especially pathetically funny. Hilarious even, since no knowledge can be found, especially with sick cartoons, are added. lol! 🤣

No he is not partial, but he does demand obedience. Therefore, he seeks those that repent, and have changed their lives in service of Christ, NOT spiritually sick minded individuals. Learn to make a distinction in your holier than thou activism.
 

Correct, the only case they would have is if the JWs went the ECOSOC route, since EXJWs use ECOSOC notions and swapped it with the DPI one, in addition to that they would 100% have a charter registration, which would make JWs hypocrites. That is an alternate reality EXJWs wanted, so they had to rely on a Left-Wing hit piece to push an idea. Opinions have their place, but the facts that push truth, 100% of the time, such truths destroy falsehoods.
What I do not understand is why they continue to use this when most people who can tell the difference between a DPI and ECOSOC. Wherever @Witness got that letter, she, or anyone else could have easily explained this.
Indeed, but I still do not wish for people to end up like those who listened to Ohio officials or the Syrian Christians, especially in the realm of faith.
That being said, this letter however, if no one explains anything to the creator of said letter, that tells you something. That is the dark and tricky thing with people who have agendas as well.

On a "daily basis" I am concerned about the people in the Wt. Thank you for your warning, but I'll be okay with whatever you're talking about.
But your opinion is, among many opinions expressed  on the days that you are here, is that I can do better.  I think we can all do better, even you SM.   
As long as I keep listening to Christ, I hope to do better. 🙂

Is @Pudgy privileged just like @AnnaNana are here? Just here. Within a true membership of Christ's disciples, there is only the right way to look at scripture.
Luke 17:3 Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.
Titus 1:9 He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.
So, to Christ, while you oppose sound doctrine and refuse to obey the word of God, @AnnaNana and @Pudgy, @Witness, etc. mean nothing.