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Outta Here

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  1. Like
    Outta Here got a reaction from Leander H. McNelly in 1914   
    Quite so. And the understanding we have now, as proclaimed by the GB of Jehovah's Witnesses and supported by their application of Scripture, would appear to me to bear this out.
    The various perspectives of those contributing to the discussion on this matter really would not exist at all if it were not for these proclamations at this time. The historical "curios" of understanding that have led people who have stuck with the organisation to this point of time are in the public domain, as are similar "artifacts" of all areas of human endeavour. 
    Whether revered as trailblazing milestones in the search for truth, or ridiculed as crank-minded curios for the amusement of cynics, the body of historical thinking on the part of Jehovah's Witnesses serves really only one purpose. The 1st Century view of the apostle Paul on the effect of  various expressions of opinion on Christianty is as valid today as it was at the the time it was written:
    "With what result? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is being proclaimed, and I rejoice over this. In fact, I will also keep on rejoicing," Phillippians 1:18
     
  2. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Anna in 1914   
    Quite so. And the understanding we have now, as proclaimed by the GB of Jehovah's Witnesses and supported by their application of Scripture, would appear to me to bear this out.
    The various perspectives of those contributing to the discussion on this matter really would not exist at all if it were not for these proclamations at this time. The historical "curios" of understanding that have led people who have stuck with the organisation to this point of time are in the public domain, as are similar "artifacts" of all areas of human endeavour. 
    Whether revered as trailblazing milestones in the search for truth, or ridiculed as crank-minded curios for the amusement of cynics, the body of historical thinking on the part of Jehovah's Witnesses serves really only one purpose. The 1st Century view of the apostle Paul on the effect of  various expressions of opinion on Christianty is as valid today as it was at the the time it was written:
    "With what result? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is being proclaimed, and I rejoice over this. In fact, I will also keep on rejoicing," Phillippians 1:18
     
  3. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Arauna in 1914   
    Quite so. And the understanding we have now, as proclaimed by the GB of Jehovah's Witnesses and supported by their application of Scripture, would appear to me to bear this out.
    The various perspectives of those contributing to the discussion on this matter really would not exist at all if it were not for these proclamations at this time. The historical "curios" of understanding that have led people who have stuck with the organisation to this point of time are in the public domain, as are similar "artifacts" of all areas of human endeavour. 
    Whether revered as trailblazing milestones in the search for truth, or ridiculed as crank-minded curios for the amusement of cynics, the body of historical thinking on the part of Jehovah's Witnesses serves really only one purpose. The 1st Century view of the apostle Paul on the effect of  various expressions of opinion on Christianty is as valid today as it was at the the time it was written:
    "With what result? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is being proclaimed, and I rejoice over this. In fact, I will also keep on rejoicing," Phillippians 1:18
     
  4. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from TrueTomHarley in 1914   
    Quite so. And the understanding we have now, as proclaimed by the GB of Jehovah's Witnesses and supported by their application of Scripture, would appear to me to bear this out.
    The various perspectives of those contributing to the discussion on this matter really would not exist at all if it were not for these proclamations at this time. The historical "curios" of understanding that have led people who have stuck with the organisation to this point of time are in the public domain, as are similar "artifacts" of all areas of human endeavour. 
    Whether revered as trailblazing milestones in the search for truth, or ridiculed as crank-minded curios for the amusement of cynics, the body of historical thinking on the part of Jehovah's Witnesses serves really only one purpose. The 1st Century view of the apostle Paul on the effect of  various expressions of opinion on Christianty is as valid today as it was at the the time it was written:
    "With what result? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is being proclaimed, and I rejoice over this. In fact, I will also keep on rejoicing," Phillippians 1:18
     
  5. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from JW Insider in 1914   
    Quite so. And the understanding we have now, as proclaimed by the GB of Jehovah's Witnesses and supported by their application of Scripture, would appear to me to bear this out.
    The various perspectives of those contributing to the discussion on this matter really would not exist at all if it were not for these proclamations at this time. The historical "curios" of understanding that have led people who have stuck with the organisation to this point of time are in the public domain, as are similar "artifacts" of all areas of human endeavour. 
    Whether revered as trailblazing milestones in the search for truth, or ridiculed as crank-minded curios for the amusement of cynics, the body of historical thinking on the part of Jehovah's Witnesses serves really only one purpose. The 1st Century view of the apostle Paul on the effect of  various expressions of opinion on Christianty is as valid today as it was at the the time it was written:
    "With what result? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is being proclaimed, and I rejoice over this. In fact, I will also keep on rejoicing," Phillippians 1:18
     
  6. Upvote
    Outta Here reacted to JW Insider in 1914   
    😉 There's a reason that I have no problem preaching that we are in the last days, and that so many people see the world with fear. We live in a time of excessive troubles and people see no way out. It is our privilege to offer comfort to those sighing and groaning over the situation in this system of things.
    To be clear, this is an opening position for a discussion that might answer a few of the questions in a more complete way than just the initial explanations here. But it's good to start with a position of agreement, and a position that acknowledges that the current view is not "crazy" or anti-Bible.
    To that point, as I've stated before, I have no problem with the idea that we are in the "last days," and in some sense I would agree that we are also in the "last generation." And since I believe that Jesus began to rule as King invisibly in 33 C.E. and has been present with his followers ever since, then I also have no problem with preaching that Jesus is now enthroned as King, and is invisibly present. I also believe the times we live in are significant in that they are fulfilling all the statements about the "parousia" throughout the entire Christian Greek Scriptures. And, in any case, the answer is the same no matter when we believe that Christ's enthronement and presence began. It's the outworking of Jehovah's eternal purpose through his Kingdom as ruled by Christ Jesus, throughout the millennium and into the final perfection of the new heavens and new earth.
    I would even say that, as far as Matthew 24 is concerned, Jehovah intended for us to look at this prophecy, ostensibly about Jerusalem only, and see in it a wider fulfillment that would guide us through future days as we look to the end of the entire worldly system of things -- not just the end of the Jewish system in 70 CE. 2 Tim 3:16 tells us that many scriptures can provide this value to us.
    But, unless someone has some scriptural evidence that will correct and override the evidence I've seen so far, I will very likely continue to present the evidence much as I have in the past. However, I see an opportunity to get some more constructive criticism on these views from persons who have participated on this topic in the past, and perhaps some additional thoughts will be convincing. For example, a person like @TrueTomHarley has often surprised me with a take on some scriptures that provides a refreshing perspective. @b4ucuhear has clearly given a lot of thought to the chronology problem, and I hope to get him to share more of what he has learned. He has also asked questions that I have not responded to yet. @Anna has apparently tried to see things from the perspective I have presented, and she is not afraid to question when something doesn't quite appear correct. (Her questions have also pointed out 'holes in the theory' that I am still not 100 percent clear on myself.) @ComfortMyPeople seems to follow a lot of what I've posted on this topic, but rarely says much about it. I'm hoping for a bit more sometime soon. @Outta Here probably got tired of my reaction to my own "JWI pills," but he often said a lot more with fewer words than anyone else who responded to me. (He was the one who suggested that WWI never ended.) @Srecko Sostar and @Witness , although quite different, have also provided very thought-provoking perspectives of their own, and I rarely give their ideas the amount of time I ought to in my responses. And of course, there are others who, in their own way, might help me settle some of these questions and opinions in my own mind.
  7. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from JW Insider in DOES ANYONE HAVE AN OPINION ON THIS?   
    This is quite frankly drivel! It is a glossary, not a theological encyclopedia.
    Chief Agent.
    The Greek term basically means “Chief Leader.” It refers to the essential role of Jesus Christ in freeing faithful humans from the deadly effects of sin and in leading them to everlasting life.—Ac 3:15; 5:31; Heb 2:10; 12:2.
    Christ.
    The title of Jesus, from the Greek word Khri·stosʹ, which is equivalent to the Hebrew word translated “Messiah,” or “Anointed One.”—Mt 1:16; Joh 1:41
    Anyone who really wants to know who Jesus is can get a precise understanding from reading the Scriptures.
    Don't underestimate the tenacity of those who realy seek truth. They will want to get more detail and reasoning on the matter. They will not be satisfied with a simple Glossary of Bible terms definition.
    If they want to do this using a website that "is one of the busiest ones on the internet", then a simple search will give a choice of 6,584 articles. Why not try?: Jesus Christ   
    Perhaps then God may give you too "repentance leading to an accurate knowledge of truth." 2Tim.2:25
  8. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from b4ucuhear in DOES ANYONE HAVE AN OPINION ON THIS?   
    This is quite frankly drivel! It is a glossary, not a theological encyclopedia.
    Chief Agent.
    The Greek term basically means “Chief Leader.” It refers to the essential role of Jesus Christ in freeing faithful humans from the deadly effects of sin and in leading them to everlasting life.—Ac 3:15; 5:31; Heb 2:10; 12:2.
    Christ.
    The title of Jesus, from the Greek word Khri·stosʹ, which is equivalent to the Hebrew word translated “Messiah,” or “Anointed One.”—Mt 1:16; Joh 1:41
    Anyone who really wants to know who Jesus is can get a precise understanding from reading the Scriptures.
    Don't underestimate the tenacity of those who realy seek truth. They will want to get more detail and reasoning on the matter. They will not be satisfied with a simple Glossary of Bible terms definition.
    If they want to do this using a website that "is one of the busiest ones on the internet", then a simple search will give a choice of 6,584 articles. Why not try?: Jesus Christ   
    Perhaps then God may give you too "repentance leading to an accurate knowledge of truth." 2Tim.2:25
  9. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from b4ucuhear in DOES ANYONE HAVE AN OPINION ON THIS?   
    This a ridiculous assumption. There are several Glossaries available. This particular one appears not to follow the general principle that a Glossary is normally a list of terms and concepts. So what? There is nothing significant about this.
  10. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from b4ucuhear in DOES ANYONE HAVE AN OPINION ON THIS?   
    Seems that a glossary differs from an encyclopedia in that it is an alphabetical list of terms. Biographical information is only included when it is relevant to explaining the use of what might be considered a personal name in a terminological sense. For example some background biogaphy is necessary to understand the use of the name "Jacob" as a term for the nation descended from him.
    Terms such as Christ, Christian, Chief Agent, Firstborn etc are defined as they are terms. The name Jehovah is viewed by some as a term not having personal significance. That is clarified in this glossary.
    There is no need do do the same for the personal name of God's Son, Jesus, as his name has not become a "term" in the sense of being  "a word or phrase used to describe a thing or to express a concept".
    If this was a Glossary relating to the Roman Catolic Church, then there might be a case for including the name as it relates to the term "Jesuit". Or indeed the word "Trinity" as it relates to the peculiar concept of the nature of God held by many members of that denomination. Of course, these terms have no relevance whatsoever to the Holy Scriptures.
  11. Haha
    Outta Here got a reaction from Anna in Hey Siri, when was Jerusalem destroyed?   
    My question would be then:
    Can we count our time spent in trying to get Siri, and Alexa,  for that matter,  and any other voice assistant out there, to give correct answers to Bible Questions? (I know only 1 peson can count the Return Visit and Bible Study).
    P.S. I discontinued the study with my Tom Tom! It was just unproductive. It is not spiritually minded. But I am getting somewhere with my telephone anwering machine!
  12. Haha
    Outta Here got a reaction from Space Merchant in JW OPPOSERS GROUPS   
    @JOHN BUTLERmight give you some tips. You seem to have something in common.
  13. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from TrueTomHarley in JW OPPOSERS GROUPS   
    "Better use of dedicated funds" is a phrase I hear frequently. Isn't that more appropriate? "Saving" money implies hoarding it up somewhere. I think we are more in the business of using resources aren't we?. Compare Matt.25:24-27 😊
  14. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Anna in JW OPPOSERS GROUPS   
    "Better use of dedicated funds" is a phrase I hear frequently. Isn't that more appropriate? "Saving" money implies hoarding it up somewhere. I think we are more in the business of using resources aren't we?. Compare Matt.25:24-27 😊
  15. Like
    Outta Here got a reaction from Melinda Mills in JW OPPOSERS GROUPS   
    "Better use of dedicated funds" is a phrase I hear frequently. Isn't that more appropriate? "Saving" money implies hoarding it up somewhere. I think we are more in the business of using resources aren't we?. Compare Matt.25:24-27 😊
  16. Like
    Outta Here got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in JW OPPOSERS GROUPS   
    Or technology per se?
    The scripture spoke of a time when men who were delegated to care for mundane tasks required spiritual and secular qualifications in view of the context of their work. This required appropriate selection.
    Similarly today, secular background is required to implement technical solutions for spiritual tasks effectively. The acquisition of secular skills is sometimes erroneously viewed as antithetical to spiritual endeavour. Therefore an important and enlightened balance needs to be achieved and maintained to avoid waste. This of course will have to incorporate the principles of Ex.35:30-35.
    Quite a challenge, but apparently met is my observation.
  17. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in Suicide. God's view. Organisation's view   
    This viewpoint is personal and not only unreasonable, but unscriptural.  In fact, it is also out of line with Jehovah's Witnesses thinking by at least 29 years. As Melinda above said, do your own research in the theocratic literature, and avoid some of the clumsy blundering presented by cleverdicks more interested in their own opinions
    *** g90 9/8 p. 23 Suicides—A Resurrection? ***
    Stunned friends of a suicide victim may thus take comfort in knowing that “Jehovah has shown mercy to those fearing him. For he himself well knows the formation of us, remembering that we are dust.” (Psalm 103:10-14) Only God can fully understand the role of mental sickness, extreme stress, even genetic defects, in a “suicidal crisis,” which, the National Observer noted, “is not a lifetime characteristic [but] often a matter only of minutes or of hours.”—See Ecclesiastes 7:7.
    Granted, one who takes his own life deprives himself of the opportunity to repent of his self-murder. But who can say whether one driven to suicide might have had a change of heart had his fatal attempt failed? Some notorious murderers have, in fact, changed and earned God’s forgiveness during their lifetime.—2 Kings 21:16; 2 Chronicles 33:12, 13.
    Thus, Jehovah, having paid “a ransom in exchange for many,” is within his right to extend mercy, even to some self-murderers, by resurrecting them and giving them the precious opportunity to “repent and turn to God by doing works that befit repentance.”—Matthew 20:28; Acts 26:20.
     
    *** g00 2/22 pp. 6-7 Given a Desire to Live ***
    Yet, never forget that Jehovah God raises up the dead and that this might well include our loved ones who because of depression, mental illness, or despair took their own lives.—See “The Bible’s Viewpoint: Suicides—A Resurrection?” in Awake! of September 8, 1990, pages 22-3.
    While suicide cannot be justified, it is comforting to remember that the future prospects of our loved ones rest with a God who fully understands that weaknesses and frailties could push one to such desperate action. The Bible says of Jehovah: “As the heavens are higher than the earth, his loving-kindness is superior toward those fearing him. As far off as the sunrise is from the sunset, so far off from us he has put our transgressions. As a father shows mercy to his sons, Jehovah has shown mercy to those fearing him. For he himself well knows the formation of us, remembering that we are dust.”—Psalm 103:11-14.
     
  18. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Anna in JW OPPOSERS GROUPS   
    Or technology per se?
    The scripture spoke of a time when men who were delegated to care for mundane tasks required spiritual and secular qualifications in view of the context of their work. This required appropriate selection.
    Similarly today, secular background is required to implement technical solutions for spiritual tasks effectively. The acquisition of secular skills is sometimes erroneously viewed as antithetical to spiritual endeavour. Therefore an important and enlightened balance needs to be achieved and maintained to avoid waste. This of course will have to incorporate the principles of Ex.35:30-35.
    Quite a challenge, but apparently met is my observation.
  19. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Anna in Suicide. God's view. Organisation's view   
    This viewpoint is personal and not only unreasonable, but unscriptural.  In fact, it is also out of line with Jehovah's Witnesses thinking by at least 29 years. As Melinda above said, do your own research in the theocratic literature, and avoid some of the clumsy blundering presented by cleverdicks more interested in their own opinions
    *** g90 9/8 p. 23 Suicides—A Resurrection? ***
    Stunned friends of a suicide victim may thus take comfort in knowing that “Jehovah has shown mercy to those fearing him. For he himself well knows the formation of us, remembering that we are dust.” (Psalm 103:10-14) Only God can fully understand the role of mental sickness, extreme stress, even genetic defects, in a “suicidal crisis,” which, the National Observer noted, “is not a lifetime characteristic [but] often a matter only of minutes or of hours.”—See Ecclesiastes 7:7.
    Granted, one who takes his own life deprives himself of the opportunity to repent of his self-murder. But who can say whether one driven to suicide might have had a change of heart had his fatal attempt failed? Some notorious murderers have, in fact, changed and earned God’s forgiveness during their lifetime.—2 Kings 21:16; 2 Chronicles 33:12, 13.
    Thus, Jehovah, having paid “a ransom in exchange for many,” is within his right to extend mercy, even to some self-murderers, by resurrecting them and giving them the precious opportunity to “repent and turn to God by doing works that befit repentance.”—Matthew 20:28; Acts 26:20.
     
    *** g00 2/22 pp. 6-7 Given a Desire to Live ***
    Yet, never forget that Jehovah God raises up the dead and that this might well include our loved ones who because of depression, mental illness, or despair took their own lives.—See “The Bible’s Viewpoint: Suicides—A Resurrection?” in Awake! of September 8, 1990, pages 22-3.
    While suicide cannot be justified, it is comforting to remember that the future prospects of our loved ones rest with a God who fully understands that weaknesses and frailties could push one to such desperate action. The Bible says of Jehovah: “As the heavens are higher than the earth, his loving-kindness is superior toward those fearing him. As far off as the sunrise is from the sunset, so far off from us he has put our transgressions. As a father shows mercy to his sons, Jehovah has shown mercy to those fearing him. For he himself well knows the formation of us, remembering that we are dust.”—Psalm 103:11-14.
     
  20. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Melinda Mills in Suicide. God's view. Organisation's view   
    This viewpoint is personal and not only unreasonable, but unscriptural.  In fact, it is also out of line with Jehovah's Witnesses thinking by at least 29 years. As Melinda above said, do your own research in the theocratic literature, and avoid some of the clumsy blundering presented by cleverdicks more interested in their own opinions
    *** g90 9/8 p. 23 Suicides—A Resurrection? ***
    Stunned friends of a suicide victim may thus take comfort in knowing that “Jehovah has shown mercy to those fearing him. For he himself well knows the formation of us, remembering that we are dust.” (Psalm 103:10-14) Only God can fully understand the role of mental sickness, extreme stress, even genetic defects, in a “suicidal crisis,” which, the National Observer noted, “is not a lifetime characteristic [but] often a matter only of minutes or of hours.”—See Ecclesiastes 7:7.
    Granted, one who takes his own life deprives himself of the opportunity to repent of his self-murder. But who can say whether one driven to suicide might have had a change of heart had his fatal attempt failed? Some notorious murderers have, in fact, changed and earned God’s forgiveness during their lifetime.—2 Kings 21:16; 2 Chronicles 33:12, 13.
    Thus, Jehovah, having paid “a ransom in exchange for many,” is within his right to extend mercy, even to some self-murderers, by resurrecting them and giving them the precious opportunity to “repent and turn to God by doing works that befit repentance.”—Matthew 20:28; Acts 26:20.
     
    *** g00 2/22 pp. 6-7 Given a Desire to Live ***
    Yet, never forget that Jehovah God raises up the dead and that this might well include our loved ones who because of depression, mental illness, or despair took their own lives.—See “The Bible’s Viewpoint: Suicides—A Resurrection?” in Awake! of September 8, 1990, pages 22-3.
    While suicide cannot be justified, it is comforting to remember that the future prospects of our loved ones rest with a God who fully understands that weaknesses and frailties could push one to such desperate action. The Bible says of Jehovah: “As the heavens are higher than the earth, his loving-kindness is superior toward those fearing him. As far off as the sunrise is from the sunset, so far off from us he has put our transgressions. As a father shows mercy to his sons, Jehovah has shown mercy to those fearing him. For he himself well knows the formation of us, remembering that we are dust.”—Psalm 103:11-14.
     
  21. Upvote
    Outta Here reacted to JW Insider in JW OPPOSERS GROUPS   
    Wow! Then you were one of very few who saw it back in 1980 when it was a makeshift "9th floor" of the 8-story factory building at 117 Adams. I only saw it because I would sometimes give special request tours. I seriously don't believe that more than 50 brothers out of 3,000 New York Bethelites had ever seen it. It was even left off the route of those who did night guard duty, and they provided their own janitorial services. It was not really even gaining traction yet by 1980, and ultimately would not be end-to-end testable until 1985.
    Also, back in 1979 and 1980, persons from the Home Art Department got a tour of the APS5 machine that would someday hook up to Wallkill's MEPS system for typesetting. As early as 1978, artists could go down to the "Photoplate" department's large camera darkroom, where they could use a small manual machine to "set" headline type, one letter at a time, exposing it from a negative strip of letters and shining it down onto a piece of film below. This way one could use a calligraphy font for example, and get the letterspacing just right, and then use other darkroom cameras with exposure tricks to produce special effects, to create an outline font, Gaussian blur and drop shadows, for example.
    By 1985, it was well tested, and before they declared a success, they wanted to make sure that any of the machines could produce disks to work on any other machine. They had every conceivable accent mark for all languages that the Watchtower was printed in by then, and made a big splash in 1986 by setting several of these machines in branches all over the world. The small team of brothers in Wallkill had a huge success, and all training on the machine would be handled up at the Farm. It was delicious irony that all the experts had been down in Brooklyn for most of this time.
    The most important thing is that it "got the lead out." For many decades, all typesetting for the publications had been done with small metal blocks that were lined up the way newspapers had done it, and these columns of blocks created a "mold" that was dipped in hot molten lead, then electroplated with zinc to last a bit longer. Some factory floors literally contained a ton of lead. The presses also were fitted to run with these lead plates, so that probably 25 percent of the factory workers handled lead during some part of the process.
    The new typesetting machines could now use a computer keyboard, and film could now be moved directly to "offset" plates made out of film for offset presses. By the early 1980's, no more new letterpress presses would be purchased. Offset was closer to a mimeograph process, but so accurate that you could line up 3 and 4 colors onto the same rolls of paper. (Playboy had been using 5 colors, I learned from one brother in charge of an offset process.) 
    Sometimes "spirit and wisdom" was deemed to be the equivalent of the "number of years managing a small corner of a factory bureaucracy." Ultimately, a world-class typesetting solution was delivered, by volunteers, and it still works today, 35 years later.
  22. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from JW Insider in JW OPPOSERS GROUPS   
    Too general a statement and not necessarily true. A personal friend of mine who was a highly talented musician developed Alzheimers. He soon became unable remember any words to songs, then to differentiate chords and how to play instruments. This was soon followed by an aversion to music altogether, although he will communicate in song. There is a difference between skill and talent.
    Allan Boyle showed me round the IT workshop when I visited Brooklyn in 1980. I have to admit it was rather like visiting a computer graveyard with electronic carcasses all over the place.
    It must be quite a challenge to apply Acts 6:3 in a modern, technical setting. But, somebody appears to have got something right.
  23. Haha
    Outta Here got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    All do, specifically or otherwise, as soon as they speak or write about God.
  24. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Equivocation in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    The original post states that "JW.org Says "Apostates are Mentally Diseased." Whilst true, what is ommitted is that JW.org  is reflecting the Bible's view.
    Apart from what has already been quoted, Peter makes reference to that early apostate Balaam who sought to attack God's people. He says that when Balaam was hindered in his attempt to stumble worshippers of Jehovah by a "voiceless beast of burden", the effect was to hinder "the prophet's mad course" 2Pet.2:16. In using the Greek word "paraphronia" Peter indicates that Balaam was engaged in an act of madness or insanity and manifesting a symptom of mental disorder. A related word, "anoia" is used to describe the "sensless rage" of the Pharisees at Jesus' supposed violation of their Sabbath Laws (Luke 16:11), and also by Paul when actually describing the activity of those other ancient opposers of Jehovah's people, Jannes and Jambres. He spoke of them being completely "corrupted in mind" and that this corruption was plainly evident in the "folly" (anoia) of their action against Moses. (2Tim.3:9).
    By the same token, modern day apostates exhibit they are "corrupted in mind", clearly exhibiting "folly" along with "senseless rage" and manifestly engaged in a "mad course". 
    There is a PC language argument these days for avoiding the use of the word "disease" in connection with mental disorder, even the term "mental illness" is being questioned. This is due to the innapropriate reactions of  people to such terms. Over time, terms may gather an emotive potential which may provoke an inappropriate response in many. This reactive tendency is exploited by propagandists of which Christian apostates are a sub-division.   
    However, no amount of feel-good euphemism can disguise the fact that Christian apostasy is abhorrent, contagious, and death dealing, whatever metaphor is used to describe it. Given the facts, it is also a mainfestation of insanity or madness. Many translators seem to agree:
    2Pet.2:16:
    New International Version
    But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey--an animal without speech--who spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet's madness.
    New Living Translation
    But Balaam was stopped from his mad course when his donkey rebuked him with a human voice.
    English Standard Version
    but was rebuked for his own transgression; a speechless donkey spoke with human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness.
    Berean Study Bible
    But he was rebuked for his transgression by a donkey, otherwise without speech, that spoke with a man’s voice and restrained the prophet’s madness.
    Berean Literal Bible
    But he had reproof for his own transgression by a mute donkey; having spoken in a man's voice, it restrained the madness of the prophet.
    New American Standard Bible
    but he received a rebuke for his own transgression, for a mute donkey, speaking with a voice of a man, restrained the madness of the prophet.
    New King James Version
    but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet.
    King James Bible
    But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
    Christian Standard Bible
    but received a rebuke for his lawlessness: A speechless donkey spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet's madness.
    Contemporary English Version
    But a donkey corrected him for this evil deed. It spoke to him with a human voice and made him stop his foolishness.
    Good News Translation
    and was rebuked for his sin. His donkey spoke with a human voice and stopped the prophet's insane action.
    Holman Christian Standard Bible
    but received a rebuke for his transgression: A donkey that could not talk spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet's irrationality.
    International Standard Version
    But he was rebuked for his offense. A donkey that normally cannot talk spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet's insanity.
    NET Bible
    yet was rebuked for his own transgression (a dumb donkey, speaking with a human voice, restrained the prophet's madness).
    New Heart English Bible
    but he was rebuked for his own disobedience. A mute donkey spoke with a man's voice and stopped the madness of the prophet.
    Aramaic Bible in Plain English
    But the reproof of his violation was a dumb donkey which spoke with the voice of men, restraining the madness of the Prophet.
    GOD'S WORD® Translation
    But he was convicted for his evil. A donkey, which normally can't talk, spoke with a human voice and wouldn't allow the prophet to continue his insanity.
    New American Standard 1977
    but he received a rebuke for his own transgression; for a dumb donkey, speaking with a voice of a man, restrained the madness of the prophet.
    Jubilee Bible 2000
    and was rebuked for his iniquity; a dumb animal accustomed to a yoke (upon which he was seated), speaking with man's voice, hindered the madness of the prophet.
    King James 2000 Bible
    But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb donkey speaking with man's voice restrained the madness of the prophet.
    American King James Version
    But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbade the madness of the prophet.
    American Standard Version
    but he was rebuked for his own transgression: a dumb ass spake with man's voice and stayed the madness of the prophet.
    Douay-Rheims Bible
    But had a check of his madness, the dumb beast used to the yoke, which speaking with man's voice, forbade the folly of the prophet.
    Darby Bible Translation
    but had reproof of his own wickedness -- [the] dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the folly of the prophet.
    English Revised Version
    but he was rebuked for his own transgression: a dumb ass spake with man's voice and stayed the madness of the prophet.
    Webster's Bible Translation
    But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice, forbad the madness of the prophet.
    Weymouth New Testament
    But he was rebuked for his transgression: a dumb ass spoke with a human voice and checked the madness of the Prophet.
    World English Bible
    but he was rebuked for his own disobedience. A mute donkey spoke with a man's voice and stopped the madness of the prophet.
    Young's Literal Translation
    and had a rebuke of his own iniquity -- a dumb ass, in man's voice having spoken, did forbid the madness of the prophet.
  25. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Equivocation in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    I like the description at 2Tim.2:17: "their word will spread like gangrene" (Gk γάγγραινα: gangraina). Doesn't seem to present any translation difficulty?

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