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Outta Here

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  1. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Anna in Revelation 5:9,10 - "On the Earth" vs. "Over the Earth"   
    You might need to check some basic rules on the use of the English language as well as for the Greek prepositions, then try and discern what Rev 5:10 is referring to. I am sure you will get there in the end one way or another, bit like SS did. 
    Thinking of your astute observation re SM,  about those who appear to be one and the same, you wouldn't have a twin would you? Or maybe a doppelganger or even a clone? I am sure I recognise something in your cut an' run style of argument from somewhere...........🤔
    BTW, @Anna has pipped me to the post with her excellent doctrinal/contextual points above. So much so, there is really no need to elaborate further on this question.  🙂
  2. Haha
    Outta Here got a reaction from 4Jah2me in Revelation 5:9,10 - "On the Earth" vs. "Over the Earth"   
    You might need to check some basic rules on the use of the English language as well as for the Greek prepositions, then try and discern what Rev 5:10 is referring to. I am sure you will get there in the end one way or another, bit like SS did. 
    Thinking of your astute observation re SM,  about those who appear to be one and the same, you wouldn't have a twin would you? Or maybe a doppelganger or even a clone? I am sure I recognise something in your cut an' run style of argument from somewhere...........🤔
    BTW, @Anna has pipped me to the post with her excellent doctrinal/contextual points above. So much so, there is really no need to elaborate further on this question.  🙂
  3. Thanks
    Outta Here reacted to Anna in Revelation 5:9,10 - "On the Earth" vs. "Over the Earth"   
    Daniel 29:30 says a kingdom will rule OVER the earth: But after you another kingdom will rise,  inferior to you; then another kingdom, a third one, of copper, that will rule over the whole earth.
    As @Outta Here already explained,  you can rule on or over and it doesn't make much difference in the context under discussion. However, grammatically I would prefer to rule over @4Jah2me if I become Queen of England,  not on him.
    In any case, it is quite clear Revelation 5:10 is talking about pesons in heaven. If we were to apply it to an earthly scene, Jehovah would literally have to  be seated on a throne ON earth in order for Jesus,  "the lamb who was slaughtered" to be seated next to him ON earth. We know Jesus went to heaven and sat at the right hand of God in heaven. We also know that Jesus promised his followers in the 1st century that they would be seated next to him. We know there is a heavenly hope. So for clarities sake it is more accurate to say they will be ruling over the earth rather than on it. Evidently, saying on the earth is confusing, as made evident by the need to make this a topic for discussion in the first place.
  4. Haha
    Outta Here got a reaction from 4Jah2me in Revelation 5:9,10 - "On the Earth" vs. "Over the Earth"   
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    You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth."
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    And you have caused them to become a Kingdom of priests for our God. And they will reign on the earth.”
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    and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.”
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    You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign upon the earth.”
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    “And you have made them a Kingdom, Priests and Kings to our God, and they shall reign over The Earth.”
    There is a fault in the logic here.
    The statement itself could be true. BUT, the list of cited scriptures preceding this statement, for which it is presented as a conclusion, refer to rulership, not domicile. The reality however is that a king can rule "over" or "on" a territory without personally being there.
    So, there is actually a disconnect between the conclusion and the citations presented as the supporting evidence. The citations merely indicate that different translators have decided on what they consider to be a contextually appropriate rendering for the preposition epi.
    The end result of the rendering serves either to clarify or slightly obscure the meaning, which itself still remains apparent either way. It is just a question of reasoning effort on the part of the reader which is reduced by the translator  rendering epi  "over" as opposed to "on". Either rendering is acceptable as the meaning itself is not altered.
    So, in answer to the OP, a translator is perfectly at liberty to make a choice between words in their rendering a text into another language where such choice is extended by the nature of the original language. In answer to "Why?", then for the sake of clarity of  the meaning of the text is the reason. In this case, the translator's word choice is quite acceptable according to the various dictionary definitions cited. The understanding of the text is enhanced, not altered. Either rendering epi as "on" or "over" does not change the meaning of the text. It is just that "over" is a better word choice for the sake of style and economy of the effort to comprehend.
     
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  6. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Anna in Revelation 5:9,10 - "On the Earth" vs. "Over the Earth"   
    Oh, by the way, just a passing thought on Rev.5:10.
    The scripture appears to be about rulership, not geography. In that case it would appear that epi is appropriately rendered in connection with the extent of rulership, rather than the geographical location of the rulers in question. The option of a contextual understanding of this preposition appears to have been exercised at Rev.9:11 and 11:6, and also by other translators in their rendering of the said Rev.5:10. (Courtesy www.biblehub.com).
    Just my "version", of course.
  7. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Anna in Revelation 5:9,10 - "On the Earth" vs. "Over the Earth"   
    No. Only when "people" assume that their "version" is my "version". To that I have an "aversion".
    No. That not my "version".
    Who cares? It is only a portal, like a public library. There are many.
  8. Haha
    Outta Here got a reaction from 4Jah2me in Revelation 5:9,10 - "On the Earth" vs. "Over the Earth"   
    More lame logic. Trust in men is presented as some sort of extreme error. There is nothing wrong in trusting men.
  9. Haha
    Outta Here got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Revelation 5:9,10 - "On the Earth" vs. "Over the Earth"   
    Oh, by the way, just a passing thought on Rev.5:10.
    The scripture appears to be about rulership, not geography. In that case it would appear that epi is appropriately rendered in connection with the extent of rulership, rather than the geographical location of the rulers in question. The option of a contextual understanding of this preposition appears to have been exercised at Rev.9:11 and 11:6, and also by other translators in their rendering of the said Rev.5:10. (Courtesy www.biblehub.com).
    Just my "version", of course.
  10. Thanks
    Outta Here got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Revelation 5:9,10 - "On the Earth" vs. "Over the Earth"   
    No. Only when "people" assume that their "version" is my "version". To that I have an "aversion".
    No. That not my "version".
    Who cares? It is only a portal, like a public library. There are many.
  11. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Space Merchant in Revelation 5:9,10 - "On the Earth" vs. "Over the Earth"   
    What I have realised with many of the critical comments from some on this forum, is that they have rejected their own versions of what they think are the beliefs held by JWs. That is why it is so difficult to understand where they are coming from. Their perceptions are alien because they are personal. They assume they must be shared by all, hence the paucity of explanation, and the irrationality of their criticism. And judging from the murky glimpses of those perceptions through the sarcastic and complicated reasonings they present, little wonder they rejected them!
  12. Haha
    Outta Here got a reaction from 4Jah2me in Revelation 5:9,10 - "On the Earth" vs. "Over the Earth"   
    What I have realised with many of the critical comments from some on this forum, is that they have rejected their own versions of what they think are the beliefs held by JWs. That is why it is so difficult to understand where they are coming from. Their perceptions are alien because they are personal. They assume they must be shared by all, hence the paucity of explanation, and the irrationality of their criticism. And judging from the murky glimpses of those perceptions through the sarcastic and complicated reasonings they present, little wonder they rejected them!
  13. Downvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from 4Jah2me in "Spiritual Paradise in JW comunity", questions from readers   
    That is your cart before horse
  14. Haha
    Outta Here got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in "Spiritual Paradise in JW comunity", questions from readers   
    You seem to be cart-before-horse-ing.
  15. Downvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from 4Jah2me in "Spiritual Paradise in JW comunity", questions from readers   
    You seem to be cart-before-horse-ing.
  16. Thanks
    Outta Here got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Revelation 5:9,10 - "On the Earth" vs. "Over the Earth"   
    There are many versions of this diagram available.
    You can see hows the word epi is used in scripture. Interpret it as you will according to context.
  17. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Space Merchant in Revelation 5:9,10 - "On the Earth" vs. "Over the Earth"   
    That is rather poor research then. I know JW with Bibles with 4 different translations for that verse, and that is just looking through 10 Bibles of the many available. So, as you are already aware of Biblehub, then why not make your own mind up?
  18. Thanks
  19. Upvote
    Outta Here reacted to JW Insider in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    Far be it from me to discuss something here that belongs in a different topic, 😉 but I was thinking the same thing. Outta Here pointed this out with a reference to something I had never seen before, and which appears to be a true sentiment of translators who let tradition invalidate parts of God's word. In this case, it refers to Zondervan's NIV:
     
  20. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Anna in I have barely seen a more stupid chart in my life   
    Whilst this an excellent contextual question, the apostles' understanding of what Jesus said is hardly a sole criteria for understanding what Jesus said, John 14:9.
  21. Thanks
    Outta Here got a reaction from 4Jah2me in Jehovah's Witnesses with covid-19 - announcement at Bethel   
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  22. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from JW Insider in I have barely seen a more stupid chart in my life   
    Whilst this an excellent contextual question, the apostles' understanding of what Jesus said is hardly a sole criteria for understanding what Jesus said, John 14:9.
  23. Thanks
    Outta Here got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in I have barely seen a more stupid chart in my life   
    Whilst this an excellent contextual question, the apostles' understanding of what Jesus said is hardly a sole criteria for understanding what Jesus said, John 14:9.
  24. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from JW Insider in Jehovah's Witnesses with covid-19 - announcement at Bethel   
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  25. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Melinda Mills in Jehovah's Witnesses with covid-19 - announcement at Bethel   
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