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Outta Here

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  1. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Thinking in Is the UN preparing to attack Religion?   
    Is the UN preparing to attack Religion?
    Just getting back to the main topic. The most relevant  prophetic statement I am aware of relating to this question is here:  
    "And the ten horns that you saw and the wild beast, these will hate the prostitute and will make her devastated and naked, and they will eat up her flesh and completely burn her with fire.
    For God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought, yes, to carry out their one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast, until the words of God will have been accomplished." Revelation 17:16-17.
    Leaving aside extensive argumentation on the interpretation of these two verses, Jehovah's Witnesses understand this to be describing the destruction of false religion at the hands of its long-time partner, the political element of human society.
    "The ten horns" = those "movers and shakers" within the political set up (as opposed to "vassal" states) at the time these events occur. "The wild beast" = the earlier referred to "was but is not" conglomeration of nations we currently know as the United Nations of which the "ten horns" are a prominent part. "The prostitute" = said "Babylon the Great", the world empire of false religion, destined for complete destruction at the hands of the political powers. "Their one thought" = preservation of national sovereignty at all costs. There has always been a rather tenuous balance in this element of the religion/politics relationship. In fact, the false charge of "sedition" constitutes a prime weapon in the anti-Jehohvah's Witness strategy employed by false religion. It has been a main component of it's murderous schemes to eliminate servants of Jehovah with the enlistment of political muscle.(Compare John 19:15: "We have no king but Caesar") However, in striking similarity to the failure of Haman's schemes at the time of King Ahasuerus as described in the Bible book of Esther, false religion is "hoist on it's own petar", (to borrow a Shakesperean idiom). This will involve a remarkable feature in that the political elements (particularly those dominant UN partners, more inclined to veto than agree) participate in an unreserved delegation of authority to their political figurehead, currently identified as the UN. "God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought" = the crux of this whole matter. Observers today may well detect evidence to support their view of a rising anti-religious trend in UN attitudes to religion. But there may equally be those who would choose to argue a completely opposite view. Not to be overlooked is the view held by false religion itself at the time of it's destruction. This is indicated at Rev:18:7 "I sit as queen, and I am not a widow, and I will never see mourning". Rev18:8 adds "That is why in one day her plagues will come". The destruction of false religion at the hands of it's one time political allies will be something to shock this system of things to it's very foundations. It will open the world stage for "a tribulation such as has not occurred from the beginning of the creation that God created until that time" Mark 13:19. Those blessed with the 'abundant true knowledge' characterising these" last days" have a comprehension of the world scene that is very different from the many who remain in "darkness mentally and alienated from the life that belongs to God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the insensitivity of their hearts." Eph 4:19.
    So in answer to the question, probably not, as a body, although godless elements have been in it's composition since it's origin. This event will come "as a thief in the night", a development indeed, but something precipitated by Jehovah, at a time of His choosing, once the "good news of the kingdom" has been preached in all the inhabited earth, for a witness. Then the end will come.
    Now is not the time to bite the hand that feeds us!
  2. Upvote
    Outta Here reacted to TrueTomHarley in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    I can recall saying in talks that if the first time the entire world was concurrently at war does not fulfill Matt 24:7, what does?
    (“For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another.”)
    And if the greatest pestilence in history by death count, the Spanish flu, does not fulfill Luke 21:10, what does?
    (“Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be great earthquakes, and in one place after another food shortages and pestilences...”)
    HG Wells said something in his Outline of History, about record-setting famine in Russia just afterwards and I used to throw that in, too, with the same question.
    Only earthquakes were not included, and there was an article in the early 2000’s I think in which WT cited geologic surveys that earthquakes have been fairly constant through the centuries, are not notably on the increase, and they did not challenge it, though they did say that it is not really the Richter scale that is going to cut it with people today, but the effect upon populations, which is on the increase simply because population is on the increase.
    And then Matthew 24:8 could be quoted: “All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.“ Things start off with a bang, but we are still in for a long haul. Other things would transpire, the only good one being the preaching of the good news earth wide, “and then the end will come.”
     
  3. Upvote
    Outta Here reacted to Anna in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    I can't speak for others, but I am in it for the long haul, and if it comes sooner, then that's a bonus!
  4. Haha
    Outta Here got a reaction from 4Jah2me in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    I suppose the word "misleading" is what I balk at.
    Miriam Webster defines this as: "to lead in a wrong direction or into a mistaken action or belief often by deliberate deceit"
    I do not think this is the case in respect of the last days or any portion thereof. I think there have been and are speculative expectations regarding the proximity of Jehovah's intervention and that some get carried along with them, embroidering them even. But not all have, or are, even now. An "are we there yet?" mindset is not  that peculiar among humans who are expecting good things to happen. It is just a consequence of impatience and and a bit of tangible reward focus thrown in.
    People who need and want to give up smoking tobacco may be reinforced in this by monetary or health considerations, even peer pressure. The more noble reasons of being undefiled and whole-souled before Jehovah may take time to get their proper place in motivation. But who cares?.... as long as they put the filthy habit behind them.
    So if people do more for Jehovah due to an exaggerated spur of expectation... who cares? Everybody wins in the end. Right motive takes time to develop as Paul made clear at Php. 3:15 and 1Cor. 9:17.
    And for those who now feel they gave up too much for too little in their serving Jehovah? Perhaps a little more meditating on what Jehovah and Jesus gave up for them, and what exactly they gave it up for would not go amiss.
  5. Haha
    Outta Here got a reaction from 4Jah2me in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    Know what you  mean, but there is a problem with the analogy. Your illustration has $100.00  as the main objective. So you gain nothing until the delivery of that prize. So the seeming delay in receiving this becomes a problem as you actually have nothing until that sum is repaid, in fact you are out of pocket, in a negative position.
    That is not the case with true Christians. Once their relationship with Jehovah has been restored through Christ, they have something of infinite, immediate value. They are not out of pocket while they await payment of a debt. So as the psalmist said at Ps.119:165 "Abundant peace belongs to those who love your law, nothing can make them stumble". That is current, not future. 
    Those who appreciate what Jehovah has done for them are not disappointed because some enthusiastic speculation on when they are going to get a future reward doesn't come to fruition. Neither are they carried along euphorically in some sort of "self"-sacrificing display of piety, only to wish they hadn't offered a bull when they could have got by quite acceptably with a goat. When the self-expected reward doesn't appear, they feel cheated as if they were owed something by God as a payment for services rendered.
    Nope, all I see is the age old parental type care displayed when children are told "Stop playing with that stick, you'll poke your own or your sister's eye out!" Exaggeration sure, but compliance will definitely protect someone's eye. Don't blame your parents for trying to protect you from harm. 🙂
  6. Haha
    Outta Here reacted to TrueTomHarley in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    On the World News Media Forum?  
  7. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Anna in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    I suppose the word "misleading" is what I balk at.
    Miriam Webster defines this as: "to lead in a wrong direction or into a mistaken action or belief often by deliberate deceit"
    I do not think this is the case in respect of the last days or any portion thereof. I think there have been and are speculative expectations regarding the proximity of Jehovah's intervention and that some get carried along with them, embroidering them even. But not all have, or are, even now. An "are we there yet?" mindset is not  that peculiar among humans who are expecting good things to happen. It is just a consequence of impatience and and a bit of tangible reward focus thrown in.
    People who need and want to give up smoking tobacco may be reinforced in this by monetary or health considerations, even peer pressure. The more noble reasons of being undefiled and whole-souled before Jehovah may take time to get their proper place in motivation. But who cares?.... as long as they put the filthy habit behind them.
    So if people do more for Jehovah due to an exaggerated spur of expectation... who cares? Everybody wins in the end. Right motive takes time to develop as Paul made clear at Php. 3:15 and 1Cor. 9:17.
    And for those who now feel they gave up too much for too little in their serving Jehovah? Perhaps a little more meditating on what Jehovah and Jesus gave up for them, and what exactly they gave it up for would not go amiss.
  8. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from TrueTomHarley in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    I suppose the word "misleading" is what I balk at.
    Miriam Webster defines this as: "to lead in a wrong direction or into a mistaken action or belief often by deliberate deceit"
    I do not think this is the case in respect of the last days or any portion thereof. I think there have been and are speculative expectations regarding the proximity of Jehovah's intervention and that some get carried along with them, embroidering them even. But not all have, or are, even now. An "are we there yet?" mindset is not  that peculiar among humans who are expecting good things to happen. It is just a consequence of impatience and and a bit of tangible reward focus thrown in.
    People who need and want to give up smoking tobacco may be reinforced in this by monetary or health considerations, even peer pressure. The more noble reasons of being undefiled and whole-souled before Jehovah may take time to get their proper place in motivation. But who cares?.... as long as they put the filthy habit behind them.
    So if people do more for Jehovah due to an exaggerated spur of expectation... who cares? Everybody wins in the end. Right motive takes time to develop as Paul made clear at Php. 3:15 and 1Cor. 9:17.
    And for those who now feel they gave up too much for too little in their serving Jehovah? Perhaps a little more meditating on what Jehovah and Jesus gave up for them, and what exactly they gave it up for would not go amiss.
  9. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from TrueTomHarley in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    Know what you  mean, but there is a problem with the analogy. Your illustration has $100.00  as the main objective. So you gain nothing until the delivery of that prize. So the seeming delay in receiving this becomes a problem as you actually have nothing until that sum is repaid, in fact you are out of pocket, in a negative position.
    That is not the case with true Christians. Once their relationship with Jehovah has been restored through Christ, they have something of infinite, immediate value. They are not out of pocket while they await payment of a debt. So as the psalmist said at Ps.119:165 "Abundant peace belongs to those who love your law, nothing can make them stumble". That is current, not future. 
    Those who appreciate what Jehovah has done for them are not disappointed because some enthusiastic speculation on when they are going to get a future reward doesn't come to fruition. Neither are they carried along euphorically in some sort of "self"-sacrificing display of piety, only to wish they hadn't offered a bull when they could have got by quite acceptably with a goat. When the self-expected reward doesn't appear, they feel cheated as if they were owed something by God as a payment for services rendered.
    Nope, all I see is the age old parental type care displayed when children are told "Stop playing with that stick, you'll poke your own or your sister's eye out!" Exaggeration sure, but compliance will definitely protect someone's eye. Don't blame your parents for trying to protect you from harm. 🙂
  10. Like
    Outta Here got a reaction from Melinda Mills in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    Know what you  mean, but there is a problem with the analogy. Your illustration has $100.00  as the main objective. So you gain nothing until the delivery of that prize. So the seeming delay in receiving this becomes a problem as you actually have nothing until that sum is repaid, in fact you are out of pocket, in a negative position.
    That is not the case with true Christians. Once their relationship with Jehovah has been restored through Christ, they have something of infinite, immediate value. They are not out of pocket while they await payment of a debt. So as the psalmist said at Ps.119:165 "Abundant peace belongs to those who love your law, nothing can make them stumble". That is current, not future. 
    Those who appreciate what Jehovah has done for them are not disappointed because some enthusiastic speculation on when they are going to get a future reward doesn't come to fruition. Neither are they carried along euphorically in some sort of "self"-sacrificing display of piety, only to wish they hadn't offered a bull when they could have got by quite acceptably with a goat. When the self-expected reward doesn't appear, they feel cheated as if they were owed something by God as a payment for services rendered.
    Nope, all I see is the age old parental type care displayed when children are told "Stop playing with that stick, you'll poke your own or your sister's eye out!" Exaggeration sure, but compliance will definitely protect someone's eye. Don't blame your parents for trying to protect you from harm. 🙂
  11. Upvote
    Outta Here reacted to JW Insider in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    I'm afraid you are misunderstanding completely. @Outta Here said:
    I'm merely showing you how what he is saying is correct. So what you are quoting is a very true statement.
    I'm not saying I believe the last days started on October 4, 1914, I just picked that date because that's pretty close to the day that the Watchtower claims the last days must have started. If they did start then, you could say that everyone since that date has been living in the last part of the last days.
    *** w14 7/15 p. 30 par. 9 “You Will Be Witnesses of Me” ***
    That happened in October 1914, marking the beginning of “the last days” of Satan’s wicked system.
    *** yb75 p. 138 Part 2—United States of America ***
    around October 4/5, 1914 C.E. The people needed to know that through the Messianic kingdom then established Jehovah was ruling as king,
    *** dp chap. 6 p. 97 par. 28 Unraveling the Mystery of the Great Tree ***
    Thus, the “seven times,” or 2,520 years, ended by Tishri 15, or October 4/5, 1914 C.E.
    *** po chap. 14 p. 177 par. 19 Triumph for the “Eternal Purpose” ***
    So they would end about that time of the year in 1914 C.E., or about October 4/5, 1914.
    *** ka chap. 12 p. 230 par. 40 Increasing the King’s Belongings ***
    So the end of those Gentile Times about October 4/5 of 1914 should logically witness a reversal of the situation of such long standing. It was therefore not without significance that October 4/5, 1914, found the Gentile nations in trouble, already for two months embroiled in the first world war of human history.
    *** kj chap. 19 p. 352 par. 7 Defeat Awaits Attack by Nations under Gog ***
    they were fulfilled around October 4/5 of the year 1914 C.E.
    Therefore, the following statement is also very true:
    And so is this one:
     
  12. Haha
    Outta Here got a reaction from 4Jah2me in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    Only to those who want to be misled. It is, at worst, "ambiguous" to a thinking person. "Last days of what?" is the first question that comes to mind.
    I see no issue with premature expectation when it comes to the end of this system of things. It seems to have always been a feature of true worshipers that their expectation of Jehovah's action to cleanse the earth brought the event closer in their minds than in fact, see Luke 19:11; Acts 1:6. In fact this attitude is even encouraged, 2Pet.3:11-12, although of course there is balancing counsel too as at 2Thess.2:1-2.
    We have a very clear punctuation mark in the progression of this time known as "the last days"  if that is what we want, in the form of the destruction of false religion Rev.17:16-17. Really, that event will be the herald of "the last days of the last days" of the time leading up to Armageddon. There will be no ambiguity when that event occurs, although the "great tribulation" itself has no specifically defined duration despite indicators being that it will be relatively short.
    Habbakuk's words are timely,(Hab.2:3) "Keep yourselves in expectation of it!" And Romans 8:19 highlights a similar attitude of "eager expectation". This is an identifying feature of true worshippers according to Heb 11.  Spiritual drowsiness and sleep, along with "upturned noses", characterises those described at 2Pet.3:3-4 by way of contrast.
     
  13. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Anna in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    Arbitrary nonsense.
  14. Haha
  15. Haha
    Outta Here got a reaction from 4Jah2me in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    Um....it always is isn't it? If we are in the last days and there is an end, and some of the last days have gone already, and keep going day by day, then we must always be... in the final part....No? As long as we are alive that is of course.
  16. Like
    Outta Here got a reaction from Melinda Mills in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    These kind of discussions remind me of what Jesus said about his return to execute judgement:
    Luke 21:35: "For it WILL come upon ALL those dwelling on the face of the WHOLE earth"
    So for me, discussions painting scenarios about the correct procession of events and who has the right dates and where we are in the stream of time are at the same time interesting and tedious, depending on the ingenuity and originality of the proposer.
    Early on, prior to 1975, an old brother (Glaswegian) said to me, "Ye'll hear a lot of talk about when things will or will not happen. Take my word for it laddie, your Armageddon came the day you dedicated your life to Jehovah. Stick with it!"
    And on another occasion around the same time, 1974ish, an old sarcastic, worldly friend said to me that he looked forward to meeting me in 1976 so he could laugh in my face over another failed prediction. My response? "I sincerely hope you will"
    Date arguments to me are basically... Quixotic.
  17. Haha
    Outta Here got a reaction from Melinda Mills in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    Maybe Jehovah is allowing time for a faithless "generation" to die off before entering the promised land???
  18. Haha
    Outta Here got a reaction from 4Jah2me in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    Must still be a few lingering on!
  19. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Arauna in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    Maybe Jehovah is allowing time for a faithless "generation" to die off before entering the promised land???
  20. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Judith Sweeney in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    Don't know if you will have time or inclination to read posts at present James. I have enjoyed some of our exchanges, especially when you have shared some technical insights, or glimpses of your anarchic sense of humor. And I must admit to a sense of achievement when getting your occasional "like" to a comment.
    I am sorry if you have fallen on hard times. I hope you are able to get through things.
    Please apply your own advice: "stay closer to Jehovah than I did". Start getting close to Jehovah.... now! This is a God who can retrieve people from the grave even. He will help you though the pits now...if you let him. Use Psalm 139 for meditation. Stay focussed James. 
  21. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Thinking in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    Don't know if you will have time or inclination to read posts at present James. I have enjoyed some of our exchanges, especially when you have shared some technical insights, or glimpses of your anarchic sense of humor. And I must admit to a sense of achievement when getting your occasional "like" to a comment.
    I am sorry if you have fallen on hard times. I hope you are able to get through things.
    Please apply your own advice: "stay closer to Jehovah than I did". Start getting close to Jehovah.... now! This is a God who can retrieve people from the grave even. He will help you though the pits now...if you let him. Use Psalm 139 for meditation. Stay focussed James. 
  22. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from 4Jah2me in Someone selling JW literature CDs etc.   
    There is good money to be made from JW literature, and it is all profit to those who have freeloaded

    Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
  23. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from JW Insider in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    Don't know if you will have time or inclination to read posts at present James. I have enjoyed some of our exchanges, especially when you have shared some technical insights, or glimpses of your anarchic sense of humor. And I must admit to a sense of achievement when getting your occasional "like" to a comment.
    I am sorry if you have fallen on hard times. I hope you are able to get through things.
    Please apply your own advice: "stay closer to Jehovah than I did". Start getting close to Jehovah.... now! This is a God who can retrieve people from the grave even. He will help you though the pits now...if you let him. Use Psalm 139 for meditation. Stay focussed James. 
  24. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Anna in Someone selling JW literature CDs etc.   
    There is good money to be made from JW literature, and it is all profit to those who have freeloaded

    Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
  25. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from TrueTomHarley in Will JWs religious activity ever return to normal?   
    Will JWs religious activity ever return to normal?
    What normal? I think we are having a ball if we are honest!
    I have never had so much time for spiritual matters.....Prayer!.... Personal study!.... Meetings where I can see EVERYONE in attendance!........All my calls are on interested people!..........  And I have only filled my fuel tank 3 times in the last 6 months!..........If this is ABnormal.....I'll take it any time!
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