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Outta Here

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  1. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Equivocation in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    I like the description at 2Tim.2:17: "their word will spread like gangrene" (Gk γάγγραινα: gangraina). Doesn't seem to present any translation difficulty?
  2. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Equivocation in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    The original post states that "JW.org Says "Apostates are Mentally Diseased." Whilst true, what is ommitted is that JW.org  is reflecting the Bible's view.
    Apart from what has already been quoted, Peter makes reference to that early apostate Balaam who sought to attack God's people. He says that when Balaam was hindered in his attempt to stumble worshippers of Jehovah by a "voiceless beast of burden", the effect was to hinder "the prophet's mad course" 2Pet.2:16. In using the Greek word "paraphronia" Peter indicates that Balaam was engaged in an act of madness or insanity and manifesting a symptom of mental disorder. A related word, "anoia" is used to describe the "sensless rage" of the Pharisees at Jesus' supposed violation of their Sabbath Laws (Luke 16:11), and also by Paul when actually describing the activity of those other ancient opposers of Jehovah's people, Jannes and Jambres. He spoke of them being completely "corrupted in mind" and that this corruption was plainly evident in the "folly" (anoia) of their action against Moses. (2Tim.3:9).
    By the same token, modern day apostates exhibit they are "corrupted in mind", clearly exhibiting "folly" along with "senseless rage" and manifestly engaged in a "mad course". 
    There is a PC language argument these days for avoiding the use of the word "disease" in connection with mental disorder, even the term "mental illness" is being questioned. This is due to the innapropriate reactions of  people to such terms. Over time, terms may gather an emotive potential which may provoke an inappropriate response in many. This reactive tendency is exploited by propagandists of which Christian apostates are a sub-division.   
    However, no amount of feel-good euphemism can disguise the fact that Christian apostasy is abhorrent, contagious, and death dealing, whatever metaphor is used to describe it. Given the facts, it is also a mainfestation of insanity or madness. Many translators seem to agree:
    2Pet.2:16:
    New International Version
    But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey--an animal without speech--who spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet's madness.
    New Living Translation
    But Balaam was stopped from his mad course when his donkey rebuked him with a human voice.
    English Standard Version
    but was rebuked for his own transgression; a speechless donkey spoke with human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness.
    Berean Study Bible
    But he was rebuked for his transgression by a donkey, otherwise without speech, that spoke with a man’s voice and restrained the prophet’s madness.
    Berean Literal Bible
    But he had reproof for his own transgression by a mute donkey; having spoken in a man's voice, it restrained the madness of the prophet.
    New American Standard Bible
    but he received a rebuke for his own transgression, for a mute donkey, speaking with a voice of a man, restrained the madness of the prophet.
    New King James Version
    but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet.
    King James Bible
    But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
    Christian Standard Bible
    but received a rebuke for his lawlessness: A speechless donkey spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet's madness.
    Contemporary English Version
    But a donkey corrected him for this evil deed. It spoke to him with a human voice and made him stop his foolishness.
    Good News Translation
    and was rebuked for his sin. His donkey spoke with a human voice and stopped the prophet's insane action.
    Holman Christian Standard Bible
    but received a rebuke for his transgression: A donkey that could not talk spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet's irrationality.
    International Standard Version
    But he was rebuked for his offense. A donkey that normally cannot talk spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet's insanity.
    NET Bible
    yet was rebuked for his own transgression (a dumb donkey, speaking with a human voice, restrained the prophet's madness).
    New Heart English Bible
    but he was rebuked for his own disobedience. A mute donkey spoke with a man's voice and stopped the madness of the prophet.
    Aramaic Bible in Plain English
    But the reproof of his violation was a dumb donkey which spoke with the voice of men, restraining the madness of the Prophet.
    GOD'S WORD® Translation
    But he was convicted for his evil. A donkey, which normally can't talk, spoke with a human voice and wouldn't allow the prophet to continue his insanity.
    New American Standard 1977
    but he received a rebuke for his own transgression; for a dumb donkey, speaking with a voice of a man, restrained the madness of the prophet.
    Jubilee Bible 2000
    and was rebuked for his iniquity; a dumb animal accustomed to a yoke (upon which he was seated), speaking with man's voice, hindered the madness of the prophet.
    King James 2000 Bible
    But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb donkey speaking with man's voice restrained the madness of the prophet.
    American King James Version
    But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbade the madness of the prophet.
    American Standard Version
    but he was rebuked for his own transgression: a dumb ass spake with man's voice and stayed the madness of the prophet.
    Douay-Rheims Bible
    But had a check of his madness, the dumb beast used to the yoke, which speaking with man's voice, forbade the folly of the prophet.
    Darby Bible Translation
    but had reproof of his own wickedness -- [the] dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the folly of the prophet.
    English Revised Version
    but he was rebuked for his own transgression: a dumb ass spake with man's voice and stayed the madness of the prophet.
    Webster's Bible Translation
    But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice, forbad the madness of the prophet.
    Weymouth New Testament
    But he was rebuked for his transgression: a dumb ass spoke with a human voice and checked the madness of the Prophet.
    World English Bible
    but he was rebuked for his own disobedience. A mute donkey spoke with a man's voice and stopped the madness of the prophet.
    Young's Literal Translation
    and had a rebuke of his own iniquity -- a dumb ass, in man's voice having spoken, did forbid the madness of the prophet.
  3. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Anna in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    The original post states that "JW.org Says "Apostates are Mentally Diseased." Whilst true, what is ommitted is that JW.org  is reflecting the Bible's view.
    Apart from what has already been quoted, Peter makes reference to that early apostate Balaam who sought to attack God's people. He says that when Balaam was hindered in his attempt to stumble worshippers of Jehovah by a "voiceless beast of burden", the effect was to hinder "the prophet's mad course" 2Pet.2:16. In using the Greek word "paraphronia" Peter indicates that Balaam was engaged in an act of madness or insanity and manifesting a symptom of mental disorder. A related word, "anoia" is used to describe the "sensless rage" of the Pharisees at Jesus' supposed violation of their Sabbath Laws (Luke 16:11), and also by Paul when actually describing the activity of those other ancient opposers of Jehovah's people, Jannes and Jambres. He spoke of them being completely "corrupted in mind" and that this corruption was plainly evident in the "folly" (anoia) of their action against Moses. (2Tim.3:9).
    By the same token, modern day apostates exhibit they are "corrupted in mind", clearly exhibiting "folly" along with "senseless rage" and manifestly engaged in a "mad course". 
    There is a PC language argument these days for avoiding the use of the word "disease" in connection with mental disorder, even the term "mental illness" is being questioned. This is due to the innapropriate reactions of  people to such terms. Over time, terms may gather an emotive potential which may provoke an inappropriate response in many. This reactive tendency is exploited by propagandists of which Christian apostates are a sub-division.   
    However, no amount of feel-good euphemism can disguise the fact that Christian apostasy is abhorrent, contagious, and death dealing, whatever metaphor is used to describe it. Given the facts, it is also a mainfestation of insanity or madness. Many translators seem to agree:
    2Pet.2:16:
    New International Version
    But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey--an animal without speech--who spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet's madness.
    New Living Translation
    But Balaam was stopped from his mad course when his donkey rebuked him with a human voice.
    English Standard Version
    but was rebuked for his own transgression; a speechless donkey spoke with human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness.
    Berean Study Bible
    But he was rebuked for his transgression by a donkey, otherwise without speech, that spoke with a man’s voice and restrained the prophet’s madness.
    Berean Literal Bible
    But he had reproof for his own transgression by a mute donkey; having spoken in a man's voice, it restrained the madness of the prophet.
    New American Standard Bible
    but he received a rebuke for his own transgression, for a mute donkey, speaking with a voice of a man, restrained the madness of the prophet.
    New King James Version
    but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet.
    King James Bible
    But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
    Christian Standard Bible
    but received a rebuke for his lawlessness: A speechless donkey spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet's madness.
    Contemporary English Version
    But a donkey corrected him for this evil deed. It spoke to him with a human voice and made him stop his foolishness.
    Good News Translation
    and was rebuked for his sin. His donkey spoke with a human voice and stopped the prophet's insane action.
    Holman Christian Standard Bible
    but received a rebuke for his transgression: A donkey that could not talk spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet's irrationality.
    International Standard Version
    But he was rebuked for his offense. A donkey that normally cannot talk spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet's insanity.
    NET Bible
    yet was rebuked for his own transgression (a dumb donkey, speaking with a human voice, restrained the prophet's madness).
    New Heart English Bible
    but he was rebuked for his own disobedience. A mute donkey spoke with a man's voice and stopped the madness of the prophet.
    Aramaic Bible in Plain English
    But the reproof of his violation was a dumb donkey which spoke with the voice of men, restraining the madness of the Prophet.
    GOD'S WORD® Translation
    But he was convicted for his evil. A donkey, which normally can't talk, spoke with a human voice and wouldn't allow the prophet to continue his insanity.
    New American Standard 1977
    but he received a rebuke for his own transgression; for a dumb donkey, speaking with a voice of a man, restrained the madness of the prophet.
    Jubilee Bible 2000
    and was rebuked for his iniquity; a dumb animal accustomed to a yoke (upon which he was seated), speaking with man's voice, hindered the madness of the prophet.
    King James 2000 Bible
    But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb donkey speaking with man's voice restrained the madness of the prophet.
    American King James Version
    But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbade the madness of the prophet.
    American Standard Version
    but he was rebuked for his own transgression: a dumb ass spake with man's voice and stayed the madness of the prophet.
    Douay-Rheims Bible
    But had a check of his madness, the dumb beast used to the yoke, which speaking with man's voice, forbade the folly of the prophet.
    Darby Bible Translation
    but had reproof of his own wickedness -- [the] dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the folly of the prophet.
    English Revised Version
    but he was rebuked for his own transgression: a dumb ass spake with man's voice and stayed the madness of the prophet.
    Webster's Bible Translation
    But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice, forbad the madness of the prophet.
    Weymouth New Testament
    But he was rebuked for his transgression: a dumb ass spoke with a human voice and checked the madness of the Prophet.
    World English Bible
    but he was rebuked for his own disobedience. A mute donkey spoke with a man's voice and stopped the madness of the prophet.
    Young's Literal Translation
    and had a rebuke of his own iniquity -- a dumb ass, in man's voice having spoken, did forbid the madness of the prophet.
  4. Upvote
    Outta Here reacted to TrueTomHarley in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    Yes. I wrote up a post on this at the time and included how other translations handled the verse. An excerpt:   (from https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2019/01/who-is-mentally-diseased.html )
    “Moreover, “mentally diseased” was placed in quotation marks, indicating it was not meant as a medical diagnosis, but as an adjective to suggest a manner of thinking. Nor is the term anything original. It is merely a repeat of the Bible verse 1 Timothy 6:3-4....“If any man teaches other doctrine and does not assent to healthful words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, nor to the teaching that accords with godly devotion, he is puffed up [with pride], not understanding anything, but being mentally diseased over questionings and debates about words.”
    ...Douay-Rheims says ‘sick about questions and strifes of words.’ In view of the context, what sort of ‘sickness’ do you think the translator had in mind? Tuberculosis, maybe? Or is it not a sickness of thinking, so that ‘mentally diseased’ is not such a bad rendering after all? NASB...offers ‘morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words.’ Does ‘morbid,’ when applied to thinking, suggest balance and soundness of mind? Or is ‘sickness,’ even ‘mentally diseased,’ more to the point?”
    Here’s a few other translations:
    ‘diseased’ (Emphasized New Testament; Rotherham)
    ‘filled with a sickly appetite’ (Epistles of Paul, W.J.Conybeare)
    ‘morbid appetite’ (A New Testament: A Translation in the Language of the People; Charles Williams)
    ‘morbid craving’ (An American Translation; Goodspeed)
    ‘unhealthy love of questionings’ (New Testament in Basic English)
    ‘morbidly keen’ (NEB)
    ‘unhealthy desire to argue’ (Good News Bible).
    “Do any of these other versions suggest soundness of mind? So the NWT’s ‘mentally diseased’ is an entirely valid offering, even if more pointed than most. Plus, once again, the term is an adjective, as it is in all other translations, not a medical diagnosis. Context (in that Watchtower article) made this application abundantly clear.”
  5. Haha
    Outta Here reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in Beware: Fake News about JW changes to doctrinal beliefs (Accepting blood transfusions, etc)   
    I remember a Bible Study, named Carl, that was very accident prone. As a Carpenter's Helper he ran his arm through a table saw and cut it off, just below the elbow.  I wrapped the arm in a plastic bag and took it and him to a local hospital, where they did miracles with stem cells, and blood derivatives.  The next day he was back at work with a small scar, and his arm was completely normal.
    He was NOT a Witness, so I did not consider the "blood issue" for him. It seemed not to apply at the time.
    A few days later, he cut off his foot with a chain saw when it jumped back on him when it hit a nail. I wrapped the foot in plastic, and we went back to that same doctor, and the next day, except for a small scar and stitches, he returned to cutting down trees and brush, with only the slightest of limp.
    About a week later, someone else was mowing the lawn, hit a piece of steel, and the mower blade came off, spinning at high speed, and like a boomerang, cut off his head, just above the shoulders. I wrapped the head in a plastic bag, and took  his head and body, with some help,  back to the same doctor.
    I expected to see him the next day, but after two days I went to ask the Doctor where Carl was.
    The Doctor informed me that there was nothing he could do for Carl, and that he was dead.
    I tried to console the doctor, telling him it was not his fault, he did the best he could do, but he was angry with me and said "I didn't kill Carl ... YOU killed Carl!".
    I was stunned and asked him how is it that I had killed Carl?
    He said " You should have cut some holes in the plastic bag!".
     
     
  6. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from JW Insider in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    The original post states that "JW.org Says "Apostates are Mentally Diseased." Whilst true, what is ommitted is that JW.org  is reflecting the Bible's view.
    Apart from what has already been quoted, Peter makes reference to that early apostate Balaam who sought to attack God's people. He says that when Balaam was hindered in his attempt to stumble worshippers of Jehovah by a "voiceless beast of burden", the effect was to hinder "the prophet's mad course" 2Pet.2:16. In using the Greek word "paraphronia" Peter indicates that Balaam was engaged in an act of madness or insanity and manifesting a symptom of mental disorder. A related word, "anoia" is used to describe the "sensless rage" of the Pharisees at Jesus' supposed violation of their Sabbath Laws (Luke 16:11), and also by Paul when actually describing the activity of those other ancient opposers of Jehovah's people, Jannes and Jambres. He spoke of them being completely "corrupted in mind" and that this corruption was plainly evident in the "folly" (anoia) of their action against Moses. (2Tim.3:9).
    By the same token, modern day apostates exhibit they are "corrupted in mind", clearly exhibiting "folly" along with "senseless rage" and manifestly engaged in a "mad course". 
    There is a PC language argument these days for avoiding the use of the word "disease" in connection with mental disorder, even the term "mental illness" is being questioned. This is due to the innapropriate reactions of  people to such terms. Over time, terms may gather an emotive potential which may provoke an inappropriate response in many. This reactive tendency is exploited by propagandists of which Christian apostates are a sub-division.   
    However, no amount of feel-good euphemism can disguise the fact that Christian apostasy is abhorrent, contagious, and death dealing, whatever metaphor is used to describe it. Given the facts, it is also a mainfestation of insanity or madness. Many translators seem to agree:
    2Pet.2:16:
    New International Version
    But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey--an animal without speech--who spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet's madness.
    New Living Translation
    But Balaam was stopped from his mad course when his donkey rebuked him with a human voice.
    English Standard Version
    but was rebuked for his own transgression; a speechless donkey spoke with human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness.
    Berean Study Bible
    But he was rebuked for his transgression by a donkey, otherwise without speech, that spoke with a man’s voice and restrained the prophet’s madness.
    Berean Literal Bible
    But he had reproof for his own transgression by a mute donkey; having spoken in a man's voice, it restrained the madness of the prophet.
    New American Standard Bible
    but he received a rebuke for his own transgression, for a mute donkey, speaking with a voice of a man, restrained the madness of the prophet.
    New King James Version
    but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet.
    King James Bible
    But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
    Christian Standard Bible
    but received a rebuke for his lawlessness: A speechless donkey spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet's madness.
    Contemporary English Version
    But a donkey corrected him for this evil deed. It spoke to him with a human voice and made him stop his foolishness.
    Good News Translation
    and was rebuked for his sin. His donkey spoke with a human voice and stopped the prophet's insane action.
    Holman Christian Standard Bible
    but received a rebuke for his transgression: A donkey that could not talk spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet's irrationality.
    International Standard Version
    But he was rebuked for his offense. A donkey that normally cannot talk spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet's insanity.
    NET Bible
    yet was rebuked for his own transgression (a dumb donkey, speaking with a human voice, restrained the prophet's madness).
    New Heart English Bible
    but he was rebuked for his own disobedience. A mute donkey spoke with a man's voice and stopped the madness of the prophet.
    Aramaic Bible in Plain English
    But the reproof of his violation was a dumb donkey which spoke with the voice of men, restraining the madness of the Prophet.
    GOD'S WORD® Translation
    But he was convicted for his evil. A donkey, which normally can't talk, spoke with a human voice and wouldn't allow the prophet to continue his insanity.
    New American Standard 1977
    but he received a rebuke for his own transgression; for a dumb donkey, speaking with a voice of a man, restrained the madness of the prophet.
    Jubilee Bible 2000
    and was rebuked for his iniquity; a dumb animal accustomed to a yoke (upon which he was seated), speaking with man's voice, hindered the madness of the prophet.
    King James 2000 Bible
    But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb donkey speaking with man's voice restrained the madness of the prophet.
    American King James Version
    But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbade the madness of the prophet.
    American Standard Version
    but he was rebuked for his own transgression: a dumb ass spake with man's voice and stayed the madness of the prophet.
    Douay-Rheims Bible
    But had a check of his madness, the dumb beast used to the yoke, which speaking with man's voice, forbade the folly of the prophet.
    Darby Bible Translation
    but had reproof of his own wickedness -- [the] dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the folly of the prophet.
    English Revised Version
    but he was rebuked for his own transgression: a dumb ass spake with man's voice and stayed the madness of the prophet.
    Webster's Bible Translation
    But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice, forbad the madness of the prophet.
    Weymouth New Testament
    But he was rebuked for his transgression: a dumb ass spoke with a human voice and checked the madness of the Prophet.
    World English Bible
    but he was rebuked for his own disobedience. A mute donkey spoke with a man's voice and stopped the madness of the prophet.
    Young's Literal Translation
    and had a rebuke of his own iniquity -- a dumb ass, in man's voice having spoken, did forbid the madness of the prophet.
  7. Thanks
    Outta Here reacted to Melinda Mills in Ripple Effect by Tie Bros   
    (1 Corinthians 6:18) . . .Every other sin that a man may commit is outside his body, but whoever practices sexual immorality is sinning against his own body.
    First the person sins against his own body. 
  8. Haha
    Outta Here got a reaction from Anna in JW OPPOSERS GROUPS   
    Somebody got something wrong there! In fact, it looks like he held the baptism candidate under a bit too long!!
  9. Confused
    Outta Here reacted to Anna in JW OPPOSERS GROUPS   
    It is obvious that both Russell and Rutherford made mistakes in their interpretation and got some things downright wrong. For example the depiction of a Caucasian blue eyed, blonde, and beardless Jesus in "The Kingdom is at Hand" (1944). To us now, it seems unfathomable how this could have even happened, surely someone would have known that Jesus, as a middle eastern Jew, couldn't have looked like this: (He even has a 40's hair style!)

     
  10. Haha
    Outta Here reacted to JW Insider in JW OPPOSERS GROUPS   
  11. Upvote
    Outta Here reacted to Arauna in "Until they finished their earthly course"   
    Maybe we should use - when they pegged, they popped their clogs, they expired, they were knackered..... 
    I guess you would prefer these expressions rather than more the more gentle wording..... 
    When searching for something to criticize, we can often grasp at straws.... lol
  12. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in South Korea   
    I can understand this. It's a bit like the meat offered to idols. Nothing wrong with the meat, but some having weak consciences (which is as much about feelings as knowledge) might have been enticed to worship, or are just plain offended that someone else seemed to be doing it. "If others have doubt...Leave it out" works for me.
    I don't like these cheesy dollies, but that is just a personal thing. "Holy" baby pictures never meant anything to me other than a slight nausea, even when I was being forced up as a Roman Catholic. So models of Sophia and the doting affection some seem to have for such things is pretty crass to me, but there's no accounting for culture. Look at those creepy manga or anime bug-eyed creatures, and the wierd paintings that  Margaret Keane did. Some people go mad about this stuff. I just feel slightly air-sick.
    But I don't mind the Caleb and Sophia videos. They are a bit Toy Story, but they have a moral punch that is quite effective. Don't like the cardboard cut outs and photo shoot stuff and merchandise much.... BUT....worship them? or feel anything other than pity for their outsize heads? Not really...............But I have always been suspicious of those fat baby cherub things they have in religious pictures..................... 
  13. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in South Korea   
    I can understand this. It's a bit like the meat offered to idols. Nothing wrong with the meat, but some having weak consciences (which is as much about feelings as knowledge) might have been enticed to worship, or are just plain offended that someone else seemed to be doing it. "If others have doubt...Leave it out" works for me.
    I don't like these cheesy dollies, but that is just a personal thing. "Holy" baby pictures never meant anything to me other than a slight nausea, even when I was being forced up as a Roman Catholic. So models of Sophia and the doting affection some seem to have for such things is pretty crass to me, but there's no accounting for culture. Look at those creepy manga or anime bug-eyed creatures, and the wierd paintings that  Margaret Keane did. Some people go mad about this stuff. I just feel slightly air-sick.
    But I don't mind the Caleb and Sophia videos. They are a bit Toy Story, but they have a moral punch that is quite effective. Don't like the cardboard cut outs and photo shoot stuff and merchandise much.... BUT....worship them? or feel anything other than pity for their outsize heads? Not really...............But I have always been suspicious of those fat baby cherub things they have in religious pictures..................... 
  14. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from TrueTomHarley in What good is an internet forum for JWs?   
    I think the main thing to be concerned about, particularly if you live in a "fat nation",  is whether you will be a survivor of the "last days", not if you will be a survivor of Armageddon. Luke 21:34-36./Rom.10:13.  
  15. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from JW Insider in What good is an internet forum for JWs?   
    As for the original post, I think an internet forum for JWs is great.
    It helps to get a global perspective of what effects JWs day to day. The rather anoymous nature enables people to say what they really think about things but might be a little reticent to divulge elsewhere.
    Of course, there are all the usual caveats regarding imposters, but I think the positive outweighs the negative by far. Anyway, it is a good sparring ground regardless. 😊
  16. Confused
    Outta Here reacted to Srecko Sostar in ARE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES IDOLATERS?   
  17. Thanks
    Outta Here got a reaction from Anna in JW OPPOSERS GROUPS   
    As vitriolic as the spiteful crticisms of apostate opposers are, there is a remarkable tide of recognition of the integrity of Jehovah's Witnesses, even among those who do not share our beliefs.
    Speaking of the voluntary stand of Jehovah's Witnesses against the oppressive demands of the Nazi and Fascist regimes in Germany and Italy this observation was recently made:
    "We owe it also to their sacrifice that there was the powerful push in civil society that gave birth to the European project and also the European Court of Human Rights"
    Guido Raimondi.  President of the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) 1 November 2015 – 5 May 2019
    The views of other non-Witness dignitaries can be seen here.
  18. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Joan Kennedy in JW OPPOSERS GROUPS   
    As vitriolic as the spiteful crticisms of apostate opposers are, there is a remarkable tide of recognition of the integrity of Jehovah's Witnesses, even among those who do not share our beliefs.
    Speaking of the voluntary stand of Jehovah's Witnesses against the oppressive demands of the Nazi and Fascist regimes in Germany and Italy this observation was recently made:
    "We owe it also to their sacrifice that there was the powerful push in civil society that gave birth to the European project and also the European Court of Human Rights"
    Guido Raimondi.  President of the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) 1 November 2015 – 5 May 2019
    The views of other non-Witness dignitaries can be seen here.
  19. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Melinda Mills in JW OPPOSERS GROUPS   
    As vitriolic as the spiteful crticisms of apostate opposers are, there is a remarkable tide of recognition of the integrity of Jehovah's Witnesses, even among those who do not share our beliefs.
    Speaking of the voluntary stand of Jehovah's Witnesses against the oppressive demands of the Nazi and Fascist regimes in Germany and Italy this observation was recently made:
    "We owe it also to their sacrifice that there was the powerful push in civil society that gave birth to the European project and also the European Court of Human Rights"
    Guido Raimondi.  President of the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) 1 November 2015 – 5 May 2019
    The views of other non-Witness dignitaries can be seen here.
  20. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from JW Insider in JW OPPOSERS GROUPS   
    As vitriolic as the spiteful crticisms of apostate opposers are, there is a remarkable tide of recognition of the integrity of Jehovah's Witnesses, even among those who do not share our beliefs.
    Speaking of the voluntary stand of Jehovah's Witnesses against the oppressive demands of the Nazi and Fascist regimes in Germany and Italy this observation was recently made:
    "We owe it also to their sacrifice that there was the powerful push in civil society that gave birth to the European project and also the European Court of Human Rights"
    Guido Raimondi.  President of the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) 1 November 2015 – 5 May 2019
    The views of other non-Witness dignitaries can be seen here.
  21. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in JW OPPOSERS GROUPS   
    As vitriolic as the spiteful crticisms of apostate opposers are, there is a remarkable tide of recognition of the integrity of Jehovah's Witnesses, even among those who do not share our beliefs.
    Speaking of the voluntary stand of Jehovah's Witnesses against the oppressive demands of the Nazi and Fascist regimes in Germany and Italy this observation was recently made:
    "We owe it also to their sacrifice that there was the powerful push in civil society that gave birth to the European project and also the European Court of Human Rights"
    Guido Raimondi.  President of the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) 1 November 2015 – 5 May 2019
    The views of other non-Witness dignitaries can be seen here.
  22. Like
    Outta Here got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Jehovah's Witnesses and The Supreme Court of the State of Montana, September 2019   
    The side, not the person.
  23. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in Colostrum, a type of breast milk, contains millions of white blood cells per ml   
    Excellent article with some clear detail on the matter for those wanting to be informed on the composition and purpose of human breast milk:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3586783/pdf/nihms-413874.pdf
  24. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in The French Speaking Baptist Church of Stratford is now located in the former Jehovah's Witnesses Kingdom Hall at 494 Milford Point Road.   
    Well, I suppose we have moved on from the rather outdated notion that in some way the dedication of a building would somehow sanctify or change the nature of the bricks and mortar of the construction in the same way that some in the 1st century felt could occur with regard to meat used in some sort of  idolatrous ritual.
    The dedication of a building for a particular purpose is really an act of the users, making that dedication for the time that they find that building suitable for that particular purpose. Once the building no longer suits that purpose and is no longer required by those making the dedication, then it seems quite reasonable that it should be disposed of and any funds obtained as a result should then be used for that same dedicated purpose.  Thinking that the fabric of a building should be used in perpetuity for that same purpose as if it was somehow made "holy" by that dedication is unreasonable . If that notion was applied literally, then no refurbishment could ever take place. No rented or leased building could ever be returned to it owner.
    Nice to see more pretentious hooey biting the dust. (However sincerely it was originally meant of course).
  25. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Anna in The French Speaking Baptist Church of Stratford is now located in the former Jehovah's Witnesses Kingdom Hall at 494 Milford Point Road.   
    Well, I suppose we have moved on from the rather outdated notion that in some way the dedication of a building would somehow sanctify or change the nature of the bricks and mortar of the construction in the same way that some in the 1st century felt could occur with regard to meat used in some sort of  idolatrous ritual.
    The dedication of a building for a particular purpose is really an act of the users, making that dedication for the time that they find that building suitable for that particular purpose. Once the building no longer suits that purpose and is no longer required by those making the dedication, then it seems quite reasonable that it should be disposed of and any funds obtained as a result should then be used for that same dedicated purpose.  Thinking that the fabric of a building should be used in perpetuity for that same purpose as if it was somehow made "holy" by that dedication is unreasonable . If that notion was applied literally, then no refurbishment could ever take place. No rented or leased building could ever be returned to it owner.
    Nice to see more pretentious hooey biting the dust. (However sincerely it was originally meant of course).

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