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Outta Here

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  1. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Arauna in United Nations vs WATCHTOWER   
    This is a ridiculous allegation.
    There is no promoting of the UN in these articles any more than the apostle Paul promoted the Stoic poet Aratus in his speech on the Areopagus at Acts 17:28.
    These WT articles merely reference the attempts of the UN to promote beneficial strategies for the human family, and highlight  it's failure to accomplish what can only be achieved through the administration of Jehovah's kingdom, the only viable government for this earth.
    These assertions, and others like them, are filling up the measure of the activities of Haman (Esther 3:8). 
  2. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from SuzA in Elders and Ministerial Servants Only Party?   
    Brothers want to hold a meeting based on spiritual activity related to their assignment such as elders/ministerial servants; elders; pioneers etc.? No problem for me.
    Private get together between small group where family heads share spiritual appointment whether pioneers or servants? No problem for me.
    Elder/Ministerial servant families only social event? Not for me. I would decline on the basis of para 12 page 9 in the study article in Jan 15 2016 Watchtower alone:
    12 Do we extend hospitality to others by inviting them to our home for a meal or for some association and encouragement? We would not need to make elaborate or expensive arrangements to be considered hospitable; nor would we want to invite only those who might repay us in some way. (Luke 10:42; 14:12-14) Our goal should be to encourage, not to impress! ...
    Hopefully whoever organises this occasion for over 50 brothers is taking on board all the society's counsel on large social gatherings.
  3. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Ann O'Maly in Hebrew Calendar   
    http://www.jw-archive.org/post/135869785598/when-was-the-last-time-our-memorial-was-not-within
  4. Upvote
  5. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Melinda Mills in Does the Watchtower Society this year celebrate the Memorial or the Fast of Esther?   
    Seems the practice (since the 4th Century) of adding an extra month, Adar1, every so often to realign the Jewish lunar calendar with the solar calendar puts the modern Jewish calendar out of sync with our Memorial date, particularly in 2016.
    This well explained here: 
    Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. There are other factors effecting the date. The timing of Nisan 1 by the sight of the new moon in Jerusalem rather than the astronomical calculation can mean a difference of 18-30 hours, placing our reckoning of Nisan 14 up to 2 days later. Also, the timing of the Passover Sacrifice as taking place between sunset and darkness of Nisan 14 (as substantiated by Ex 12:6 and De.16:6) differs from those Jewish authorities who place the Passover meal later, as occuring on Nisan 15.
    Our calculations are based on the best evidence for the system used when the memorial was instituted by Jesus in the 1st Century, rather than the more recent Jewish methods.
    Other references include:
    WT 1 Feb 1976 p73
    The modern Jewish calendar determines the beginning of their month of Nisan by the astronomical new moon. However, usually it is eighteen hours or more later when the first sliver of the crescent of the new moon becomes visible in Jerusalem. Each year, in recent times, the governing body of Jehovah’s witnesses has determined the actual new moon that becomes visible in Jerusalem, which is the way the first of Nisan was determined in Biblical times. For this reason often there has been a difference of a day or two between the Memorial date of Jehovah’s witnesses and the Nisan 14 date according to the modern Jewish calendar.
     
    *** w73 3/15 p. 175 Is the Date for Celebrating Passover Important to Christians? ***

    Is the Date for Celebrating Passover Important to Christians?

    JESUS CHRIST, the founder of Christianity, instituted the memorial of his death (the Lord’s Evening Meal) on a day marked by an annual observance, the Jewish Passover. This being the case, reasonably the Lord’s Evening Meal would also be an annual celebration. Hence the date on which the Passover was held would determine when the memorial of Jesus’ death should be commemorated. Christians therefore find it of more than passing interest to ascertain when Passover was observed. It is important, for they are under command to keep the memorial of Jesus’ death.—Luke 22:19.

    According to the Jewish calendar, the anniversary date for the celebration of Passover falls in the month of Nisan. Regarding the lamb or goat that was to be eaten during the course of the Passover meal, Jehovah God commanded: “It must continue under safeguard by you until the fourteenth day of this month, and the whole congregation of the assembly of Israel must slaughter it between the two evenings.”—Ex. 12:6.

    What does the expression “two evenings” mean? Does it have any bearing on the date for celebrating Passover?

    Jewish tradition generally presents the “two evenings” as the time from noon (when the sun begins to decline) on until sundown. As the Israelites measured their day from sundown to sundown, this would mean that the Passover victim was slaughtered prior to the sundown with which Nisan 14 ended and Nisan 15 began. If this were correct, the Passover meal itself would have been eaten in Egypt on Nisan 15 and the Israelites would not have left Egypt until that date.

    But the traditional Jewish view regarding the “two evenings” does not harmonize with the Bible account at Exodus 12:17, 18. There we read: “You must keep the festival of unfermented cakes, because on this very day I must bring your armies out from the land of Egypt. And you must keep this day throughout your generations as a statute to time indefinite. In the first month [Nisan or Abib], on the fourteenth day of the month, in the evening you are to eat unfermented cakes.”

    Had the Passover victim been slaughtered as Jewish tradition holds, namely, in the last quarter of the fourteenth day, which ended at sundown, then the Israelites could not have left Egypt that “very day.” The event that enabled them to depart was the death of the Egyptian firstborn. But, as this took place at midnight, it would not have come until about six hours after Nisan 14 ended.—Ex. 12:29.

    So we must look to a source other than Jewish tradition to find out when the Passover victim was sacrificed and then eaten. We need to examine the Bible itself to determine the significance of the expression “two evenings.” Directing our attention to Deuteronomy 16:6, we note that in the case of the first evening a time beginning considerably later than noon is involved. The instructions to Israel here read: “You should sacrifice the passover in the evening as soon as the sun sets.” So the first of the “two evenings” manifestly designates the time when the sun sets, whereas the second evening would correspond to the time when the sun’s reflected light or afterglow ends and darkness falls.

    This explanation of the two evenings was also offered by the Spanish rabbi Aben-Ezra (1092-1167 C.E.), as well as by the Samaritans and the Karaite Jews. It is the view presented by such scholars as Michaelis, Rosenmueller, Gesenius, Maurer, Kalisch, Knobel and Keil.

    Viewing the Biblical evidence as a whole, we can see that the Passover victim was slaughtered at sunset, at the start of Nisan 14, and the meal itself was eaten later that evening. Whereas the Jews of today, in keeping with tradition, eat the Passover meal on Nisan 15, their practice is not supported by the Holy Scriptures. The correct anniversary date is Nisan 14.

    Thus Jesus Christ must have eaten the Passover with his disciples on Nisan 14 “after evening had fallen” and thereafter instituted the Lord’s Evening Meal. (Mark 14:17; Matt. 26:20-28) Jehovah’s Christian witnesses therefore observe the memorial of Christ’s death on its anniversary date after sundown on Nisan 14.

  6. Upvote
    Outta Here reacted to admin in Is it a lie when the Watchtower Society teaches that Jesus and the disciples ate the unleavened bread when in fact that bread was leavened?   
    @Eoin Joyce good answer.  Although please remove the formatting in your response as much is off the page. 
    @the poster.  Please ask Questions in the section for questions. You are just trying to make statements. I changed your title to a question. 
  7. Upvote
  8. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Carmen Erwin in Timeline of the 'Light Getting Brighter'   
    2012 - Gen 49:27. "Benjamin...will divide spoil".  Specfically applied to Esther and Mordecai (Benjaminites) receivingHaman's estate as "spoil". Watchtower, January 1, 2012, p.29.
    2012 - Dan 2:44. "All these kingdoms" refers specifically to the governments represented in the symbolic image, not all present day governments as formerly explained. Watchtower, June 15, 2012, p.17.
    2012 - Dan 8:24. The "ruin" caused by the "fierce-looking king" specifically applied to scope of Anglo-American military destruction i.e dropping of two atomic bombs. Watchtower, June 15, 2012, p.16.
    2012 - Dan 2::41-43. "toes" of the symbolic image held as having no separate prophetic significance apart from what is represented by the feet of the image. The number 10 is not mentioned here. Formerly held to be the final conglomeration of nations at the time of Armageddon. Watchtower, June 15, 2012, p.16.
    2012 - Emergence of seventh world power. Emergence of Anglo-American world power seen in USA/British partnership formed during World War 1, 1914-18 CE. Formerly timed with ascendancy of British Empire in 1763 CE. Watchtower, June 15, 2012, p.15,19.
     
    There are additional examples listed on pages 26-27 of the 2016 Yearbook
     
  9. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Carmen Erwin in Does the Watchtower Society this year celebrate the Memorial or the Fast of Esther?   
    Seems the practice (since the 4th Century) of adding an extra month, Adar1, every so often to realign the Jewish lunar calendar with the solar calendar puts the modern Jewish calendar out of sync with our Memorial date, particularly in 2016.
    This well explained here: 
    Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. There are other factors effecting the date. The timing of Nisan 1 by the sight of the new moon in Jerusalem rather than the astronomical calculation can mean a difference of 18-30 hours, placing our reckoning of Nisan 14 up to 2 days later. Also, the timing of the Passover Sacrifice as taking place between sunset and darkness of Nisan 14 (as substantiated by Ex 12:6 and De.16:6) differs from those Jewish authorities who place the Passover meal later, as occuring on Nisan 15.
    Our calculations are based on the best evidence for the system used when the memorial was instituted by Jesus in the 1st Century, rather than the more recent Jewish methods.
    Other references include:
    WT 1 Feb 1976 p73
    The modern Jewish calendar determines the beginning of their month of Nisan by the astronomical new moon. However, usually it is eighteen hours or more later when the first sliver of the crescent of the new moon becomes visible in Jerusalem. Each year, in recent times, the governing body of Jehovah’s witnesses has determined the actual new moon that becomes visible in Jerusalem, which is the way the first of Nisan was determined in Biblical times. For this reason often there has been a difference of a day or two between the Memorial date of Jehovah’s witnesses and the Nisan 14 date according to the modern Jewish calendar.
     
    *** w73 3/15 p. 175 Is the Date for Celebrating Passover Important to Christians? ***

    Is the Date for Celebrating Passover Important to Christians?

    JESUS CHRIST, the founder of Christianity, instituted the memorial of his death (the Lord’s Evening Meal) on a day marked by an annual observance, the Jewish Passover. This being the case, reasonably the Lord’s Evening Meal would also be an annual celebration. Hence the date on which the Passover was held would determine when the memorial of Jesus’ death should be commemorated. Christians therefore find it of more than passing interest to ascertain when Passover was observed. It is important, for they are under command to keep the memorial of Jesus’ death.—Luke 22:19.

    According to the Jewish calendar, the anniversary date for the celebration of Passover falls in the month of Nisan. Regarding the lamb or goat that was to be eaten during the course of the Passover meal, Jehovah God commanded: “It must continue under safeguard by you until the fourteenth day of this month, and the whole congregation of the assembly of Israel must slaughter it between the two evenings.”—Ex. 12:6.

    What does the expression “two evenings” mean? Does it have any bearing on the date for celebrating Passover?

    Jewish tradition generally presents the “two evenings” as the time from noon (when the sun begins to decline) on until sundown. As the Israelites measured their day from sundown to sundown, this would mean that the Passover victim was slaughtered prior to the sundown with which Nisan 14 ended and Nisan 15 began. If this were correct, the Passover meal itself would have been eaten in Egypt on Nisan 15 and the Israelites would not have left Egypt until that date.

    But the traditional Jewish view regarding the “two evenings” does not harmonize with the Bible account at Exodus 12:17, 18. There we read: “You must keep the festival of unfermented cakes, because on this very day I must bring your armies out from the land of Egypt. And you must keep this day throughout your generations as a statute to time indefinite. In the first month [Nisan or Abib], on the fourteenth day of the month, in the evening you are to eat unfermented cakes.”

    Had the Passover victim been slaughtered as Jewish tradition holds, namely, in the last quarter of the fourteenth day, which ended at sundown, then the Israelites could not have left Egypt that “very day.” The event that enabled them to depart was the death of the Egyptian firstborn. But, as this took place at midnight, it would not have come until about six hours after Nisan 14 ended.—Ex. 12:29.

    So we must look to a source other than Jewish tradition to find out when the Passover victim was sacrificed and then eaten. We need to examine the Bible itself to determine the significance of the expression “two evenings.” Directing our attention to Deuteronomy 16:6, we note that in the case of the first evening a time beginning considerably later than noon is involved. The instructions to Israel here read: “You should sacrifice the passover in the evening as soon as the sun sets.” So the first of the “two evenings” manifestly designates the time when the sun sets, whereas the second evening would correspond to the time when the sun’s reflected light or afterglow ends and darkness falls.

    This explanation of the two evenings was also offered by the Spanish rabbi Aben-Ezra (1092-1167 C.E.), as well as by the Samaritans and the Karaite Jews. It is the view presented by such scholars as Michaelis, Rosenmueller, Gesenius, Maurer, Kalisch, Knobel and Keil.

    Viewing the Biblical evidence as a whole, we can see that the Passover victim was slaughtered at sunset, at the start of Nisan 14, and the meal itself was eaten later that evening. Whereas the Jews of today, in keeping with tradition, eat the Passover meal on Nisan 15, their practice is not supported by the Holy Scriptures. The correct anniversary date is Nisan 14.

    Thus Jesus Christ must have eaten the Passover with his disciples on Nisan 14 “after evening had fallen” and thereafter instituted the Lord’s Evening Meal. (Mark 14:17; Matt. 26:20-28) Jehovah’s Christian witnesses therefore observe the memorial of Christ’s death on its anniversary date after sundown on Nisan 14.

  10. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Sarah gibson in Timeline of the 'Light Getting Brighter'   
    2012 - Gen 49:27. "Benjamin...will divide spoil".  Specfically applied to Esther and Mordecai (Benjaminites) receivingHaman's estate as "spoil". Watchtower, January 1, 2012, p.29.
    2012 - Dan 2:44. "All these kingdoms" refers specifically to the governments represented in the symbolic image, not all present day governments as formerly explained. Watchtower, June 15, 2012, p.17.
    2012 - Dan 8:24. The "ruin" caused by the "fierce-looking king" specifically applied to scope of Anglo-American military destruction i.e dropping of two atomic bombs. Watchtower, June 15, 2012, p.16.
    2012 - Dan 2::41-43. "toes" of the symbolic image held as having no separate prophetic significance apart from what is represented by the feet of the image. The number 10 is not mentioned here. Formerly held to be the final conglomeration of nations at the time of Armageddon. Watchtower, June 15, 2012, p.16.
    2012 - Emergence of seventh world power. Emergence of Anglo-American world power seen in USA/British partnership formed during World War 1, 1914-18 CE. Formerly timed with ascendancy of British Empire in 1763 CE. Watchtower, June 15, 2012, p.15,19.
     
    There are additional examples listed on pages 26-27 of the 2016 Yearbook
     
  11. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from SuzA in Is homosexuality a reason to get a brother permission to have a scriptural divorce and remarry?   
    Not sure how "he brought some brothers" to serve as witnesses to this incident.
    Matt 5:32
    However, as you probably know, porneia is not dependent on the sex of the persons involved. So, a proven case is grounds for the innocent party to scripturally divorce.
  12. Upvote
    Outta Here reacted to JW Insider in United Nations vs WATCHTOWER   
    Γιαννης Διαμαντιδης,
    I believe that Ann O'maly has stated the truth about the U.N. involvement about as well as anyone can. I know the brother who got the Society involved with the UN DPI/NGO, and have spoken to him several times since I left Bethel in the 1980's. I know that the paperwork was approved by others including a member of the GB (mentioned by Ann).
    It was definitely a mistake. And it has definitely stumbled people. I'm not here to defend it, and I'm not here as one of those Witnesses who will claim that Jehovah has allowed certain mistakes just to filter out those who are disloyal, or those who are looking for an excuse to leave the Organization. People still say this about some of the mistakes of the past, and will likely say such things about mistakes made in the future.
    I just searched through the jw-archive site, because I know that we have discussed this before, and I didn't want to just keep re-writing things "from scratch" over and over again -- which is something I have a tendency to always do. In fact, this is the very first time I will be quoting myself from a previous post: I'm no expert on this, and perhaps I don't have all the facts either, but the information is from people I trust.
     
    A portion of the discussion from
    Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. (I made the UN joke because the timing was close to "Sternstorm." The WTS applied for the NGO status through their DPI (Dept of Public Info.) in 1991 and received it in 1992. I believe we requested disassociation in 2001, just after an investigative journalist exposed the NGO/DPI connection.)
    If you are asking about the UN, then unfortunately, the answer is Yes. The Watchtower joined the UN as an NGO. I know the brother who spearheaded the effort, still in Writing (last I spoke to him), and also knew others who approved it at the time (now deceased). They meant no harm, but it proved to be an embarrassment. They didn't really need the NGO status, for the original purpose -- access to informational materials, but the status seems to have given them quicker information about conferences and events that could have even helped the Watchtower Society learn more about the behind-the-scenes political circumstances of our brothers in various countries. The most embarrassing part, of course, was getting "disfellowshipped" by the UN. (That really happened, but it happened just after the WTS requested it.) Also, for a while, the Watchtower Society was supposed to write one informational article per year that informed our audience of some of the work the UN was doing. (That's one of the ways the DPI works.) So while the Watchtower magazine bashed them negatively, a small piece here and there in the Awake! magazine was doing articles on UNICEF etc that were between neutral and positive.
    ...
    I should also say that I don't think this started out as anything very big. But those who got involved should have realized that almost everything goes public and becomes searchable. For a while you could even search the U.N.'s site and see which Awake! articles had been submitted for NGO/DPI compliance.
    My motto: If you think you'll have trouble defending it, just don't! (Don't start something you might have to defend later.)
    But I have to say that even in 1976, I was doing some follow-up research on Mr. Banda, the president of Malawi who had allowed widespread persecution of the Witnesses for several years just prior. And it turns out that he made some anti-JW statements that blamed the Witnesses for their own troubles -- saying that the problem was not just the 25 cent political party card. I only found this info in some heavy encyclopedic U.N. publications that no one in Writing had seen or heard of -- although these publications were at a large university library. It's quite possible that, 15 years later, a couple brothers were convinced that this type of information, although available without the NGO/DPI connection, would become more accessible. (I don't know if that would really be true.) Or, even more likely, that if we could gain a respectable status with THEIR researchers, we could merely request things to be xeroxed and mailed to the WTS, rather than traveling over to DPI repositories, and hardly knowing where to start.
     
    ----- and in another place on jw-archive, it came up again ------
     
    There is additional evidence or information that I'm sure you can find from others, but what I write below is based mostly on what I know personally and have seen with my own eyes. It is mixed with a few things I have learned from other trusted and current Witnesses.
    A very interesting man in Bethel's Writing Department is best known for some of his non-outline talks that he has given in hundreds of congregations. You can find many of his recorded talks on the Internet. He is a good speaker with a "dramatic" personality. I know the man well, and still count him as a friend although we rarely speak. I have seen him outside Bethel, in NY, NJ, even PA, oddly enough, buying books for his own library and for the Bethel libraries. (I have been a book collector for 30 years, and still take on research work for authors, so we have often frequented the same places.)
    From the time I first knew him, 1976, this brother was in the Service Department and finally moved to the Writing Department. He was quickly given a lot of autonomy under the supervision of Lloyd Barry because he did more research and book purchasing than pure Writing compared with most others in Writing.
    The brother I am speaking about was very highly embarrassed over the fact that it was mostly his own idea that got this thing started. I have not talked about it with him. He began using the UN library regularly in 1990, then weekly in 1991, and initially signed up with the UN's "Department of Public Information" (DPI) in 1991 (and officially accepted 1992) for easier access to library materials, but in the process of accessing those materials he learned a lot about different types of access to conferences and areas of interest that aligned with the Society's interests outside of just the library resources. (It was thought that association might have made it easier to publicize JW human rights violations, learn more about what other religions were doing when they had similar issues with religious persecution in many countries. It made it easier to get information about international religious taxation issues, and Holocaust publicity, etc.)
    Brother Barry agreed with him that these other areas of access were also valuable, and they continued the association as an "NGO" (non-governmental organization). The names of both of these brothers, including the GB member, and another direct report to a GB member from the Service Dept are still on some forms at the UN.
    They also had to agree to produce articles that helped to promote the work of United Nations' initiatives. The first one was the September 8, 1991 Awake! One initiative that the WTS could most easily agree with was UNICEF. The December 8, 2000 Awake! for example prints out the entire UN Declaration of the Rights of a Child in a single issue that mentions UNICEF 10 times (in a positive context). I'll quote it below.
    But first notice by using the 2014 Watchtower Library CD for example that in the 10 years that the WTS was associated with the UN it mentioned UNICEF about 75 times (from 1991-2001). After a leak by the Guardian, the WTS was disassociated from the UN in 2001 when it was exposed to the UN that the Watchtower was simultaneously speaking out AGAINST the UN at the same time the Awake! was speaking positively about it.
    (UNICEF has been mentioned just 11 times in the much longer time period since 2001, and always just to quote negative statistics.)
    I have seen a list that included articles that were presented to the UN/DPI as proof that the WTS was keeping it's agreement by publishing at least one positive article per year. I don't have a copy of it, and don't know if anyone else does. I forget whether it included the issue below from 2000. I wish I had kept a copy. As I recall, it had references to about 10 different issues of the Awake! over a period of several years.
    *** g00 12/8 p. 5 An Ongoing Search for Solutions ***
    The UN Declaration of the Rights of the Child:
    ● The right to a name and nationality.
    ● The right to affection, love, and understanding and to material security.
    ● The right to adequate nutrition, housing, and medical services.
    ● The right to special care if disabled, be it physically, mentally, or socially.
    ● The right to be among the first to receive protection and relief in all circumstances.
    ● The right to be protected against all forms of neglect, cruelty, and exploitation.
    ● The right to full opportunity for play and recreation and equal opportunity to free and compulsory education, to enable the child to develop his individual abilities and to become a useful member of society.
    ● The right to develop his full potential in conditions of freedom and dignity.
    ● The right to be brought up in a spirit of understanding, tolerance, friendship among peoples, peace, and universal brotherhood.
    ● The right to enjoy these rights regardless of race, color, sex, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, and property, birth, or other status.
     
     
    --------------
    Back to your current post. What I'm trying to say is that I don't think we need to cover up anything. A mistake was made, and we ultimately resolved it. I don't see what it proves to keep bringing it up. It does not show that we supported the U.N.  It shows that we found areas of agreement. We used the relationship to our advantage and the "cost" to us was the need to write about ways in which another organization was also trying to resolve world problems. For all we know, we would have been writing about such things anyway. Personally, I think we ended up looking more reasonable by discussing what the world was trying to do, and how it was at times making progress. Even their limited progress still highlighted the need for a more comprehensive solution.
    So it's not like any JWs really needed to take their focus off the Scriptural reasoning for resolving the world's problems. Perhaps it made us more sympathetic and knowledgeable about the viewpoint of others. In the more distant past, we often did nothing but show derision for such efforts. Surely we are better off now for such research. I don't see this whole thing as a one-sided proof of hypocrisy with no up-side. I believe the posts also show that (through the mistake) we discovered avenues and venues for involvement in human rights awareness that we were not aware of previously.
     
  13. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Melinda Mills in United Nations vs WATCHTOWER   
    Γιαννης Διαμαντιδης
    I have noted your references and the arguments made by the various critics you recommend. The observations are interesting and informative where factual. The conclusions and assertions made remain the perception of those critics however, and I do not find them in the least convincing. For me, they remain simply, allegations.
    I can see in the scriptural record similarities to the many ways in which God's servants in the past were assisted by secular authorities in the carrying out of Jehovah's purposes. Ezra and Nehemiah's relationship to the authorities in their day being classic examples. (I would submit both books in their entirety as references here).
    This record(for me) serves simply to demonstrate the inability of Satan to thwart Jehovah in that the very organisations representing his (Satan's) rulership are used, when required, to accomplish Jehovah's purposes. 
    The passage of scripture in Matthew 12:22-30 fits well for me in response to these allegations.
     
     
  14. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Melinda Mills in United Nations vs WATCHTOWER   
    This is a ridiculous allegation.
    There is no promoting of the UN in these articles any more than the apostle Paul promoted the Stoic poet Aratus in his speech on the Areopagus at Acts 17:28.
    These WT articles merely reference the attempts of the UN to promote beneficial strategies for the human family, and highlight  it's failure to accomplish what can only be achieved through the administration of Jehovah's kingdom, the only viable government for this earth.
    These assertions, and others like them, are filling up the measure of the activities of Haman (Esther 3:8). 
  15. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Melinda Mills in Is homosexuality a reason to get a brother permission to have a scriptural divorce and remarry?   
    Not sure how "he brought some brothers" to serve as witnesses to this incident.
    Matt 5:32
    However, as you probably know, porneia is not dependent on the sex of the persons involved. So, a proven case is grounds for the innocent party to scripturally divorce.
  16. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from gfnslave in REINSTATEMENT No2   
    Is it Christian NOT to accept someone who comes to the congregation and asks for forgiveness ?  Asking for forgiveness is not the only criteria as John the Baptist made clear at Matt 3:8.
    "Thank you Eoin, But I am sure you have an opinion of your own" you said. Well here is my opinion:
    If a person is sick, they need medical attention. If their sickness is contagious, additional precaution must be taken to avoid infecting others and this may include isolation until the sickness is no longer contagious. Sadly, some do not recover despite the best medical attention.
    In the case of patients who respond to medical attention, those with the appropriate training and experience will manage the recovery of afflicted ones and their rehabilitation to the community. Although the process may be lengthy and procedures unpleasant, a successful outcome will outweigh temporary difficulties. Interestingly, although the  process has become sophisticated in modern times, something similar is well outlined in Leviticus 13. 
    Spiritual sickness needs spiritual attention. In the case of unrepentance over serious sin, this is a symptom of serious spiritual sickness. This spiritual sickness needs the additional precaution of isolation from others to avoid infecting them, hence the disfellowshipping arrangement. Although a severe measure, this has the aim of restoration to spiritual health. James 5:14 applies in principal to the recovery process, with the latter part of Jude 23 indicating the need for caution in handling such matters. Managing the spiritual recovery and rehabilitation of spiritually sick ones is the responsibility of those with "spiritual qualifications" (Gal 6:1) and is best left to them. Sadly, some do not recover despite the best spiritual attention (Ph 3:18).
    However, for those who are restored to spiritual health and are reinstated, then Ecc 7:8 applies to their experience, or for more detail, Heb 12:11.
    I am sure you will understand in the case of physical sickness as described above, well intentioned, but inappropriate, contact and action on the part of untrained friends and relatives outside of the medical parameters would only serve to put the afflicted one and themselves at risk. However, once recovery has been confirmed, then there is no limitation. No less so in a spiritual context.
  17. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Queen Esther in ALL OUR SONGBOOKS... Sunday, February 14. 2016   
    First one
  18. Upvote
    Outta Here reacted to AnonymousBrother in How can we be sure that Gods Name is Jehovah?   
    The exact pronunciation is not known anymore. So, as to the validity of "Jehovah".
    It only applies in the languages it was defined as. How, you wonder? Let's take "fire".
    Is that the original pronunciation of what we know as fire by the being that first mentioned it? We can 99.999999999999999% guarantee it is *not*. So. Is "fire" the incorrect word for fire? By the reasoning some want to apply, the answer is "yes." Which means, pretty much, no-one in he world knows what they are talking about and are speaking gibberish.
    That is where we have "transliteration" and "translation". YHWH is incorrect. Why? The Tetragrammaton is *not written in modern Romanized characters.* YHWH is *not* God's name, *by any means.* 
    It is an attempt to use existing character combinations with an aproximate sound to the word in another language. In the case of YHWH, this is even *more* incorrect, since the pronunciation is not being transliterated, but raw characters, whose pronunciation in that particular combination in their native language *no longer exists.* This brings us to "translation". To use an example, if you ever meet a Korean with the name "Lee", "Lee" is *not* his name. It is a *translation*. His real name, in accurate *transliteration* is "Ee". Lim is really "Him" without the "H" sound. Mr. Park has no "r" in his real name. I am sure you also have many examples.
    Which, now, brings us back to Jehovah and English.
    Until the time of Tyndale, no one had translated the original Hebrew texts into English. Yet, there is a word there that occurs about 7000 times, the concept and exact match of which the English language *does not have*.  Now, since *no one alive then or now* knows *how* that word is pronounced, Tyndale could have written Spongebob with a notation on the front that "Spongebob" is how he will represent the Tetragrammaton in his *translation*, because, with the pronunciation of the original *not known* he *cannot* transliterate. But, instead, he noticed that "Jeova" was being used elsewhere and why, so, rather than pick "Spongebob" he picked Jehovah (modern spelling. It was with an "i" before) and maintained some sort of reasoning for the translation.
    And, of course, the reason Tyndale had to make a translation in the first place has its origins *with God.*
    (ASV) Genesis 11:9 Therefore was the name of it called Babel; because Jehovah did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did Jehovah scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
    As God did not reveal His Name until *after* the Babel episode, those who eventually learned English *had no native concept* of the meaning of God's name, therefore no equivalent word to the Tetragrammaton. They would have to come up with them when they ran into the concept. And, when Tyndale did, he coined
    "Jehovah" 
    to represent the Hebrew Tetragrammaton in the English language about 500 years ago. And, this fact is attested to, still, in dictionaries:
    Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. "Jehovah" in British English
    Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Jehovahnoun
     UK   /dʒəˈhəʊ.və/  US   /dʒəˈhoʊ.və/        › the Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  of Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  used in the Old Testament of the Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
    Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Now, you can call out "Korean Dude!" or "Mr. Lee!". But, Mr. "Ee" will appreciate you using his name, which, in English, is Mr. "Lee."
    And that is how we view Jehovah, which, in Korean, is Yohowah, which, in ancient Hebrew is . . . The Tetragrammaton. But, you can use Yahweh (or one of the 50 different variations claiming to be the True Pronunciation) if you want: It is *still* wrong. When the New Kingdom arrives for good, I am sure the True Name will be in wide use, and all will have the correct pronunciation. But, until then, we are left with Jesus's words at John 17:26
    (CEB) I’ve made your name known to them and will continue to make it known so that your love for me will be in them, and I myself will be in them.”
    And that is a *critical* reason to be using God's Name, *however* it may have been translated into the language *God Himself* gave you.
  19. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Arauna in English vs. Hebrew   
    Do you have access to the New World Translation 2013? Appendices A4 and A5, page 1731 to 1743.
  20. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Santo Mengoli in REINSTATEMENT No2   
    Is it Christian NOT to accept someone who comes to the congregation and asks for forgiveness ?  Asking for forgiveness is not the only criteria as John the Baptist made clear at Matt 3:8.
    "Thank you Eoin, But I am sure you have an opinion of your own" you said. Well here is my opinion:
    If a person is sick, they need medical attention. If their sickness is contagious, additional precaution must be taken to avoid infecting others and this may include isolation until the sickness is no longer contagious. Sadly, some do not recover despite the best medical attention.
    In the case of patients who respond to medical attention, those with the appropriate training and experience will manage the recovery of afflicted ones and their rehabilitation to the community. Although the process may be lengthy and procedures unpleasant, a successful outcome will outweigh temporary difficulties. Interestingly, although the  process has become sophisticated in modern times, something similar is well outlined in Leviticus 13. 
    Spiritual sickness needs spiritual attention. In the case of unrepentance over serious sin, this is a symptom of serious spiritual sickness. This spiritual sickness needs the additional precaution of isolation from others to avoid infecting them, hence the disfellowshipping arrangement. Although a severe measure, this has the aim of restoration to spiritual health. James 5:14 applies in principal to the recovery process, with the latter part of Jude 23 indicating the need for caution in handling such matters. Managing the spiritual recovery and rehabilitation of spiritually sick ones is the responsibility of those with "spiritual qualifications" (Gal 6:1) and is best left to them. Sadly, some do not recover despite the best spiritual attention (Ph 3:18).
    However, for those who are restored to spiritual health and are reinstated, then Ecc 7:8 applies to their experience, or for more detail, Heb 12:11.
    I am sure you will understand in the case of physical sickness as described above, well intentioned, but inappropriate, contact and action on the part of untrained friends and relatives outside of the medical parameters would only serve to put the afflicted one and themselves at risk. However, once recovery has been confirmed, then there is no limitation. No less so in a spiritual context.
  21. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Γιαννης Διαμαντιδης in reinstatement   
    The reason for the wait is what needs to be scriptural. And this a matter between your friend and the body of elders. If you are a baptized Jehovah's Witness, you should not be a party to those discussions. But it looks as if you can both look forward to your friend's reinstatement. Ecc.7:8.
  22. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from Hilda in reinstatement   
    The reason for the wait is what needs to be scriptural. And this a matter between your friend and the body of elders. If you are a baptized Jehovah's Witness, you should not be a party to those discussions. But it looks as if you can both look forward to your friend's reinstatement. Ecc.7:8.
  23. Upvote
    Outta Here reacted to Queen Esther in A LITTLE WONDER ❤ Monday, 15. February 2016   
    Amazing True Story of a Mother......  Mom's love is great ❤
    When Carolyn Isbister put her 20oz baby on her chest for a cuddle, she thought
    that it would be the only chance she would ever have to hold her.
    Doctors had told the parents that baby Rachel only had only minutes to live because her heart was beating once every ten seconds and she was not breathing. Isbister remembers:
    I didn’t want her to die being cold. So I lifted her out of her blanket
    and put her against my skin to warm her up. Her feet were so cold. It was the only cuddle I was going to have with her, so I wanted to remember the moment.” Then something remarkable happened.  ;o)

    The warmth of her mother’s skin kick started Rachael’s heart into beating properly, which allowed her to take little breaths of her own. We couldn’t believe it – and neither could the doctors. She let out a tiny cry.
    The doctors came in and said there was still no hope – but I wasn’t
    letting go of her. We had her blessed by the hospital chaplain,
    and waited for her to slip away. But she still hung on.
    And then amazingly the pink color began to return to her cheeks. She literally was turning from gray to pink before our eyes, and she began to warm up too. The sad part is that when the baby
    was born, doctors took one look at her and said ‘no’.
    They didn’t even try to help her with her breathing as they said it
    would just prolong her dying. Everyone just gave up on her,” her
    mom remembered. At 24 weeks a womb infection had led to her premature labor and birth and Isbister (who also has two children Samuel, 10, and Kirsten, 8 ) said, “We were terrified we were
    going to lose her. I had suffered three miscarriages before, so we
    didn’t think there was much hope.” When Rachael was born she was grey and lifeless. Ian Laing, a consultant neonatologist at the hospital, said: “All the signs were that the little one was not going to make it and we took the decision to let mum have a cuddle as it was all we could do. Two hours later the wee thing was crying. This is indeed a miracle baby and I have seen nothing like it
    in my 27 years of practice. I have not the slightest doubt that mother’s love saved her daughter.”
    Rachael was moved onto a ventilator where she continued to
    make steady progress and was tube and syringe fed her mother’s
    pumped breastmilk. Isbister said, “The doctors said, that she had proved she was a fighter and that she now deserved some intensive care as there was some hope.
    She had done it all on her own – without any medical intervention or drugs. She had clung on to life –
    and it was all because of that cuddle. It had warmed up her body and regulated her heart and breathing enough for her to start fighting. At 5 weeks she was taken off the ventilator and began breastfeeding on her own.  At four months Rachel
    went home with her parents, weighing 8lbs – the same as any
    other healthy newborn. Because Rachel had suffered from a lack of
    oxygen doctors said there was a high risk of damage to her brain.
    But a scan showed no evidence of any problems and today Rachel is on par with
    her peers. Rachel’s mom tells us, “She is doing so well. When we brought her home,
    the doctors told us that she was a remarkable little girl. And most of all,
    she just loves her cuddles. She will sleep for hours, just curled into my chest. It was
    that first cuddle which saved her life – and I’m just so glad I trusted my instinct
    and picked her up when I did. Otherwise she wouldn’t be here today.” ❤
     
  24. Upvote
    Outta Here reacted to Ann O'Maly in Jehovah's Witnesses 'ordered destruction' of notes which could have been used during child sexual abuse inquiry   
    That's rather careless of the journalist. The memo does not say to make sure all records relating to child molestation are in harmony (period) - which may suggest 'in harmony with each other' or some sort of evidence tampering. The full sentence is:
    "Make sure all records relating to child molestation are in harmony with ks10 2:16, point 3, and 5:39." (See attached Watchtower memo.)
    IOW, the records kept are to be in harmony with the instructions in the Elder's handbook, Shepherd the Flock of God, which stipulates that records relating to child molestation are to be kept indefinitely and are NOT to be destroyed.
    Personal elders meeting or other personal notes on individuals are to be destroyed, however.
    2015_Audit_Checklist-UK.pdf
  25. Upvote
    Outta Here got a reaction from The Librarian in Coco Rocha Abandons Supermodel Career for Cart Witnessing   
    That's not Coco Rocha on the cart!

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